New Pc

[clocker]

Well Stage 1 of Clocker's latest dream project is almost done. At least done enough to get her running and post some pics...

Basic stats:

Thermaltake Xaser III 2000+ aluminum case

Asus A7N8X Deluxe (ver.2.0) mainboard (thanks to Lamsey for the recommendation)

AMD Athlon 2600XP

Mushkin PC 2700 (black) ddr memory- 1GB

Zalman 7000A-Cu heatsink

Zalman heatpipe on Radeon 9000Pro graphics card

WD 160GB 7000rpm HDD

Lite-on CD-RW

Memorex DVD-ROM

This is the basic framework from which I hope to upgrade as money allows. I'm buying a Athlon 3200XP and 1GB of Mushkin PC3200 memory as soon as my computer geek buddy gets his new 64bit AMD. I get to buy his castoffs at a great price.

The case was purchased with an eye to switching over to H2O cooling when the new CPU gets into my hot,sweaty hands. It's actually much larger than I need, but it makes adding all the hardware involved a lot easier.

http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=oZSh8tafGx5MEpSqNHuP3W8eC&ext=.gif
This is the front of the case with the bay door closed. I removed the Thermaltake fan controller panel and put my old panel in. The Thermaltake rheostats really didn't seem to do to much in the way of regulating the fan speed.
I also removed the backlit Thermaltake logo from the lower panel and cobbled in a grill. There are two fans directly behind this opening and I wanted better air flow...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=m4OmlzahQ5UmW2ldjFrcBtr45&ext=.gif
I apologize for the crap photograhy,btw...
This shows the inside bottom front of the case. There used to be 6 HDD bays here, but not anymore! This is the space where the bulk of the water cooling hardware will go (sometime in the future... ;) ). I mounted the HDD in the removable floppy drive bay and cut out the bottom and mounted a fan to blow onto the HDD.
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=tm6lTT7Ya49bDecpr1zfXJdZj&ext=.gif
Just more beauty shots, really. Shows all the drives and the blowhole fan in the roof. Monster Zalman heatsink coming into view...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=fU8GyIOAVtWDeuOzF0OtYfmOc&ext=.gif
And thar she blows! This thing is huge. Seriously. About the diameter of a CD and weighs a ton. I modified the mounting a bit by placing spacers behind the mobo and actually screwing the heatsink mounting brackets into the case wall. That way the board isn't supporting all that weight. It is very quiet... the fan runs between 1350 and 2500 rpm. So far ( admittedly only a day so far...) the chip temp has stabilized right around 40C. Not bad for being almost silent.
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=fe8X6s9gGQ8eApULmvKpUUr9n&ext=.gif
A general view of the inside.
I spent what seemed like days trying to get the wiring the way I wanted it. Ultimately I bit the bullet and hacked away at the harness, custom fitting as much as possible ( leaving open the possibility for reconfiguration and adding components) and sheathing as I went. It actually looks better in person.

Now that this stage is done I can begin to plan ( and save money! :P ) for the next step. Monday I'm going to an aquarium shop to see what I can learn about pumps.
For a radiator I plan on using the heater core from a car. The water reservoir will probably be an aluminum overflow tank off a race car. I'm still researching the water block for the chip, but this Asus board has the appropriate holes around the CPU mounting socket, so my options are pretty wide.
Next up is a Soundblaster Audigy Platinum set up. The control panel from that will replace my current fan control panel so I'm already working a new one to go into the front of the floppy drive bays.

Edit: Can someone tell me if HDDs are position sensitive? Do they care if they are upside down or standing on their end? I'm thinking of maybe moving mine and need to know what my orientation restrictions are- if any.
Thanks.

[Virtualbody1234]

You can reposition your HD in any way you like.

Very nice work with the wiring. :)

One question. What is that gold colored fan bracket with 2 fans against the back wall? It looks like a HD cooler.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@1 November 2003 - 18:42
You can reposition your HD in any way you like.

Very nice work with the wiring. :)

One question. What is that gold colored fan bracket with 2 fans against the back wall? It looks like a HD cooler.
It is.
Although quite efficient as a cooling device, those two little fans make way too much noise! So I took it off. When I started thinking about repositioning the HDD I used that cooler bracket to get an idea of where I might be able to move the HDD.
It screwed right into some stock holes in the case wall and I was quite taken with the look. I forgot to remove it when I shot the pics and I'm just going to leave it till I have to open up the case again.
This Thermaltake has a very weird side panel mounting system...I must admit that I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet. Sometimes the panels will just drop into place and sometimes neither love or money can convince them to install. Had it not been for that I may have removed that extraneous HDD cooler.

The drive bays that I removed added a lot of structural support to that end of the case so I have to think of a way to install some stiffening struts when I begin the water cooling project. Hence the desire to move the HDD from it's current position.

Good eye catching that, btw.

As long as you're here...I saw some fan adaptors at CompUSA today that put a 80mm fan on a 60mm mount. Reminded me of your fan conversion.

[Virtualbody1234]

Yeah, I know there are quite a few fan adaptors out there. I just couldn't find one locally. I have made about 10 so far. Quite a popular item.

That looks like a good spot to install your drive if it's not too close to where you want to put the water cooling equipment.

[clocker]

You probably have it down to an art by now.
I like to make my own stuff too.

As for the HDD location, right now I'm just exploring my options. Until the water cooling project begins to gel I won't know how much space I need or where that space should be...

On a completely intuitive level it seems like mounting the radiator externally would be the ideal solution. At least from a purely technical standpoint. Esthetically and practically that may not be best. Mounted externally, airflow and a supply of (relatively) cool air are not such an issue.

I guess I just need to start gathering parts and see...

[bigdawgfoxx]

Nice Rig. It looks really nice too. Not the FASTEST ram or cpu...but i really like it. Better then my pos lol

[abu_has_the_power]

very nice work dude. did u say 40 deg C? that's a bit high for that heatsink. did u oc ur cpu? cuz i have my 2.4c @ 2.6, and my idle is around 34 deg C, and i have the crappiest heatsink.

[clocker]

Originally posted by abu_has_the_power@1 November 2003 - 19:56
very nice work dude. did u say 40 deg C? that's a bit high for that heatsink. did u oc ur cpu? cuz i have my 2.4c @ 2.6, and my idle is around 34 deg C, and i have the crappiest heatsink.
Nope, sorry to disappoint you Abu, but no OCing.

The Zalman is not an overclockers heatsink.
It is quiet.
Dead silent in fact.
I could probably do better tempwise, but not without sacrificing the silence.
Also keep in mind the 40C isn't anywhere near the AMD recommended limits so I'm not at all worried.

Water cooling will change all this anyway... ;)

[j2k4]

NICE RIG!

Wiring is very well-executed; "A place for everything, etc....")

I'm picking up ideas, bit-by-bit.

Someday, I'll walk my ass in your footsteps. :)

Snazzy, man! ;)

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@1 November 2003 - 20:35


Snazzy, man! ;)
Snazzy???

Dating yourself a bit aren't you, j2?

Thanks though. I thought you'd appreciate the braided steel sleeving. Not only can I cruise the internet with this thing, but she stops on a dime also... :P

[abu_has_the_power]

yea. u got a really well made machine. how much u ditching out for this beast? and i didn't catch wat ur vd card was. r u adding a couple cold cathodes? and some led fans? and some nice lights on the outside? wat bout fan grills?

and bout the heatsink, i thought that heatsink was better than the intel heatsink fan thing that i have

[clocker]

Video card is a Radeon 9000Pro.
At least for now.

No lights, Abu.
Not now, not ever.
It's a computer not a carnival ride.

So far I have about a million hours and more money than I care to think about, but it's getting cold outside and I can't work on my car so this is my winter project...

[abu_has_the_power]

Originally posted by clocker@2 November 2003 - 05:41
Video card is a Radeon 9000Pro.
At least for now.

No lights, Abu.
Not now, not ever.
It's a computer not a carnival ride.

So far I have about a million hours and more money than I care to think about, but it's getting cold outside and I can't work on my car so this is my winter project...
well lights would make ur comp look like this ;) :

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=376298 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=376298)

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=376907 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=376907)

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=385885 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=385885)
lol

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=410709 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=410709)

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=411895 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=411895)
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/atta...=&postid=428971 (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=428971)

these r just a few. there's much better looking ones at forums.extremeoverclocking.com. now tell me these look amazing.

[lynx]

You've got to have lights, Clocker, or how is the hamster going to see his treadmill? If he can't see his treadmill your overclocking performance is going to be absolutely zero. :P

[3RA1N1AC]

i always thought overclocking depended more on the size of the spoiler and the "go faster" stripe that you paint on the case.

[Kunal]

Originally posted by abu_has_the_power@2 November 2003 - 02:56
very nice work dude. did u say 40 deg C? that's a bit high for that heatsink. did u oc ur cpu? cuz i have my 2.4c @ 2.6, and my idle is around 34 deg C, and i have the crappiest heatsink.
you've got to remember amd's run slightyly hotter than intels and also that clockers fan is silent so runs alot slower than yours, if clocker had a faster fan on his cpu, he could get his temp lower, but its not needed as 40c is a decent temp( my 2000+ runs at 40c, using a coolermaster aero 7 lite, hsf, with the fan at about half way, so it silent :) )

[Virtualbody1234]

i thought that heatsink was better than the intel heatsink fan thing that i have
@Abu, I think that clocker can out build anything you could build and he would do it with one hand tied behind his back. Maybe you could learn something about how things should be built instead of criticizing his equipment.



No lights, Abu.
Not now, not ever.
It's a computer not a carnival ride.
That's his choice, abu. Let him build it the way he thinks is smart.

I wonder what kind of noisy ''carnival ride" abu would build?

I have said it before abu, if you don't know what you're talking about then don't. Or simply STFU. http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/fingerleft.gifhttp://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/swearani.gif

[clocker]

you've got to remember amd's run slightyly hotter than intels and also that clockers fan is silent so runs alot slower than yours, if clocker had a faster fan on his cpu, he could get his temp lower, but its not needed as 40c is a decent temp( my 2000+ runs at 40c, using a coolermaster aero 7 lite, hsf, with the fan at about half way, so it silent )
Exactly.

The problem with fan-only cooling is the trade off you have to accept between cooling efficiency and noise generation. You can't seem to have both airflow and silence.

My primary goal is quiet. Hence the exploration into some more active forms of heat dissipation. Water cooling looks to be the easiest, the downside being a lot of clunky hardware.
Peltier cooling looks very interesting, the bad part being the potential for condensation, which would be instantly fatal and devastatingly expensive.

I think that water cooling is the next stage.
The biggest drawback is that I hate to buy stuff online or through the mail.
I really like to be able to see/touch the product I'm purchasing before shelling out my money. Pictures can make crappy stuff look pretty good and I hate the disappointment of opening a box only to find that it's not really what I wanted.
Of course none of my local computer shops have a wide range of watercooling stuff in stock... or any, for that matter.

We shall see.

@Abu,

My backround is with racing machines. The fundamental thinking in that field is "If it doesn't have to be there, get it the hell out!". In other words, function over form.
To my eye there is beauty in sheer performance, not polishing, plating, painting, or, in this case, lighting.
Also, I appreciate the level of detailing that is not all immediately apparent. Even at a third look you are still discovering little touches that add to the harmony of the overall design/execution.
Case lighting runs counter to this approach.
I can appreciate a pimped out case/computer, it's just not the way I want to do it...

Besides that, I think that case lighting is a fad that will only serve to date the machine. Like big wings on little Hondas and harvest gold kitchen appliances, in a few years I'd look at it and say "What the hell was I thinking? That is sooo yesterday!"

[lynx]

I've got to the stage where my ps, case and cpu fans are almost silent at normal running, certainly within acceptable tolerances, but the hd cooler is now the noisiest thing. I liked your alternative clocker, but I wondered what heat pipes might be like. I understand they can be very efficient, so if you can get the heat away from electrical components, a peltier device can then create condensation without risk of damage, but I suspect it may not be necessary.

[clocker]

Lynx,

My experience with heatpipe technology is very limited.
I only put the setup on my video card a few days ago and haven't opened up the case to check out how efficiently it is working yet.
The biggest issue I have with Peltier systems is that all of the kits I have seen to date are sorta crude/homemade looking. I don't really want to be someone else's beta tester.
I already do that for Bill Gates....

[bigdawgfoxx]

Lights look cool, but its his dicesion...cant spell that word. Nice

[abu_has_the_power]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@2 November 2003 - 12:34

i thought that heatsink was better than the intel heatsink fan thing that i have
@Abu, I think that clocker can out build anything you could build and he would do it with one hand tied behind his back. Maybe you could learn something about how things should be built instead of criticizing his equipment.



No lights, Abu.
Not now, not ever.
It's a computer not a carnival ride.
That's his choice, abu. Let him build it the way he thinks is smart.

I wonder what kind of noisy ''carnival ride" abu would build?

I have said it before abu, if you don't know what you're talking about then don't. Or simply STFU. http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/fingerleft.gifhttp://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/swearani.gif
i wasn't criticizing his stuff. i was saying that his heatsink/fan is much better than mine. is that wrong?

[Virtualbody1234]

@ no_power,
is that wrong?

Yes, it's wrong. We are trying to have a serious thread about clocker's custom PC, and you're posting all kinds of nonsense, misinformation, ill thought opinions and noise.

That includes comparing a stock Intel P4 cooler with his Zalman copper AMD cooler. Totally different worlds.

Why don't you go and pollute some other area of the board than the HardwareWorld?

[bigdawgfoxx]

Damn yall hate each other

[SciManAl]

hehehe war of the words... :D
is it just me or are the pics not working??? has the X for no image??? the description sounds kickass, but no pic??? :( and clocker it seems you are no newbie to making comps, this isn't your first build right, or are we looking at prodigy material here???

[Kunal]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@2 November 2003 - 17:30
Damn yall hate each other
no just vb1234 and abu i thinks! and oh yeh everyone hates me..... :unsure:

[SciManAl]

no PICTURES< OR THEY DON"T WORK GRRR&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
sry i had to vent my rage, whats up with the pics guys???

[SciManAl]

KICKass pics work now&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
i see man nice job&#33;&#33;&#33;
nice sleeving, and looks like very awsome flow&#33;&#33;&#33; i applaud your work&#33;&#33;

[abu_has_the_power]

Originally posted by SciManAl@2 November 2003 - 21:21
KICKass pics work now&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
i see man nice job&#33;&#33;&#33;
nice sleeving, and looks like very awsome flow&#33;&#33;&#33; i applaud your work&#33;&#33;
yes, they do look very nice. but they r some other dudes

i don&#39;t have the time or money to do that. but this guy is amazing&#33;&#33; very nice cable flu and everything. thats y i thought he&#39;d be able to do wat they did in those pics

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by SciManAl@2 November 2003 - 13:18
no PICTURES< OR THEY DON"T WORK GRRR&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
sry i had to vent my rage, whats up with the pics guys???
speaking of pics-- clocker, i&#39;m not sure if you&#39;re too familiar with the ins &#39;n&#39; outs of web design and picture compression, but i noticed that you saved those photos as GIFs. the rule of thumb is that JPEG is better suited to photos because it handles blurs and gradients well, and GIF is suited to things like text and line/cartoon art because it represents solid colors better.

if you have a program like photoshop which includes a nice flexible JPEG compression scheme, you can create pics with dimensions just as large as those, but with smaller file sizes so that they load faster and use up less of your web-host&#39;s bandwidth quota.

not trying to give you a lecture, just trying to be helpful. ;)

[clocker]

Thanks Brainiac I appreciate the advice.
The pictures were originally JPEGs, but exceeded my webhost&#39;s file size limit, so I made them into .GIFs to lower the file size.

SciManAl...if it was my pics you were refering to, thank you. If not, I&#39;ll take credit anyway.
This is the second machine I&#39;ve put together. The first one was just a learning experience, nothing too special. Then I started adding/removing/reversing/ repositioning fans, just to see the effect on monitored temps. I could get the temps way down at the expense of a mini-tornado in my room, or I could keep it quiet at the expense of the chip.
This project is my first real attempt to achieve both.

I just replaced the HDD on my Dad&#39;s old Compaq and was stunned to find that there are no fans at all ( except for the HSF) on that POS. He&#39;s had it running 24/7 for years now. Go figure.

[SciManAl]

hehehe i was refering to the rig, but thats ok :D
the old computers aren&#39;t OCed, and they generate next to nothing in heat.. i have one of those old ones, and they just have a PSU fan and thats it...
they also just cooled it enough not more then enough like me, and you, and most everyone on this board...

Dude if that is what you are doing on your second build then you are coming along very well&#33;&#33; I have built five so far, and the work you did rivals my own comp, that i have been building /upgrading for 4+ years...&#33;&#33; seriosly man i give you my praise. "You future look good" - aunt Martha also my mother... :rolleyes: :D :lol:

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@1 November 2003 - 21:51
Nice Rig. It looks really nice too. Not the FASTEST ram or cpu...but i really like it. Better then my pos lol
The Ram is fine for his 333Mhz side bus CPU.

ALthough I dont know why he paid for a 2600 when he could have just gotten a 2500, 400Mhz ram to use the dual channel option that im sure is on that Asus Board, seeing as how you are going to watercool it, and overclock it more.....

[_John_Lennon_]

Why oh why do people buy xasers.

Sigh, but nice looking case the wire sleeve, while seemingly generic in its idea, always shows its variety in application.

Also, for the lights thing, I have an 80MM Case fan that has 4 LEDS, and a cold Cathode thats about 12 inches long at the bottom of the window of my case.

Its adds a nice effect okay, If he didnt want your case to be flashy, and eye catching, then why the hell would he get an xaser....

[Cygnuz-Y]

Hey, Nice Wiring in there, i dont know if you already know this webpage, so anyways you can find info about making Water Cooling with a Junk Yard Heater Matrix HERE (http://www.gideontech.com/guides/waterc/)


Does your case have a Side panel window? :unsure:

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by Cygnuz-Y@2 November 2003 - 23:05

Does your case have a Side panel window? :unsure:
If your asking about mine, then yes it does.

[Cygnuz-Y]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_+3 November 2003 - 04:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (_John_Lennon_ @ 3 November 2003 - 04:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cygnuz&#045;Y@2 November 2003 - 23:05

Does your case have a Side panel window?&nbsp; :unsure:
If your asking about mine, then yes it does. [/b][/quote]
Hmmm Nice dude...




Now Does clocker&#39;s case have a side panel window...? :unsure:

[clocker]

Yes, it does.

It&#39;s difficult to get a case that doesn&#39;t these days.

@John Lennon, do you not like Thermaltake cases? As far as lights go, I have already said that I can appreciate the effect, it&#39;s just not my cup &#39;o tea. When did lights become mandatory?
Faster ram and chip are on the schedule.
The overall structure/layout of the system needs to be in place before the individual upgrades are implemented. I&#39;ll be interested to see the differences.

[abu_has_the_power]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_@3 November 2003 - 03:24
Why oh why do people buy xasers.

Sigh, but nice looking case the wire sleeve, while seemingly generic in its idea, always shows its variety in application.

Also, for the lights thing, I have an 80MM Case fan that has 4 LEDS, and a cold Cathode thats about 12 inches long at the bottom of the window of my case.

Its adds a nice effect okay, If he didnt want your case to be flashy, and eye catching, then why the hell would he get an xaser....
true. just wat i was trying to say

[clocker]

I am in the process of stripping off the "boy racer" stock Thermaltake geegaws.
The front panel decorations are already gone, the red anodized underpanels are now black and the Thermaltake logo is history.
I bought it because it is all aluminum, the size fit my requirements, it came with the nice 420 watt power supply and seven case fans.

Oh yeah, it was also on sale for &#036;175. ;)

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by clocker@2 November 2003 - 16:17
Thanks Brainiac I appreciate the advice.
The pictures were originally JPEGs, but exceeded my webhost&#39;s file size limit, so I made them into .GIFs to lower the file size.
awright. well, if you&#39;re so inclined to get hold of a program like Photoshop, clicking "save for Web" is a good way to achieve a fairly awesome file size vs dimension ratio. i think it could easily get pics like those down to about 30kb each as jpegs and they&#39;d still be nice & clear.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_@2 November 2003 - 18:43
The Ram is fine for his 333Mhz side bus CPU.
that is true. as far as i know, nvidia recommends that their boards perform best when you run the FSB and memory at the same clock. even if the memory is capable of outpacing the FSB. i&#39;d only recommend 400mhz memory if you were expecting to get a 400mhz FSB CPU eventually-- or just to keep that upgrade option open.

[clocker]

Stage 2

Removed three more fans.
Down to three total (including HSF).
Using a Thermaltake ducting mod intended for remounting a fan on a Volcano series heatsink, I mounted a low profile Zalman fan right next to the heatsink.
http://www.bit-tech.net/images/review/262/2.jpg
This neat little doodad puts the fan, which is set to exhaust (suck) air, in the perfect place to help out the Zalman HS fan.
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=TuT0733Q4aFdmwREE3BxBVCNx&ext=.jpg
This arrangement works quite well. CPU temps have dropped from 40 C to 38 C. Motherboard temp is a steady 28 C.
I may duplicate the setup in the fan space right above the current one.

The harddrive has been moved out of the floppybay and mounted on the back wall. I used a Zalman heatpipe cooler and it was a piece of cake. These heatpipe units really seem to work and as an added bonus I was able to delete more fans.
Into the floppybay I mounted a SmardCard reader.
This is the HDD cooler...
http://www.1coolpc.com/heatpipehdd.jpg

So now I&#39;m ready to really get serious about switching to water cooling I think. I&#39;ll probably mount the second fan for the heatsink and run this rig for a few days/weeks so I have a good baseline from which to evaluate the H2O cooling efficiency.
I&#39;ll keep you posted....

[adamp2p]

Man, I like this thread. It shows the personality of this forum.

I don&#39;t have time to read it all, but I must say that it is elequent.

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by clocker@3 November 2003 - 00:43

Oh yeah, it was also on sale for &#036;175. ;)
That&#33; Is what I dont like about xasers.

Mine was about 50 bucks, not counting shipping.

[mooseman2070]

sweeeeet

[SciManAl]

if you want any help with a set up on water cooling, i may not be be the best person, but i am sure we the poeple at the forum can help if it is required... (I will try to help too&#33;&#33;)Although i would imagine you will be fine... :D Your case looks good, and it looks like you have a good set up for the future... Best of luck&#33; :P

[clocker]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_@3 November 2003 - 19:10

That&#33; Is what I dont like about xasers.

Mine was about 50 bucks, not counting shipping.
You got a Xaser case for &#036;50?

Quite a bargain.

[Virtualbody1234]

clocker, I congratulate you on your reduction of the total number of fans. You are definitely showing me that you view things similar to the way I do. The simpler the better. That angled duct positioning is a smart idea. I also see that you have a fan adaptor there (experimental placment I assume).

Fewer fans is also less load on the power supply, leaving more power for your system.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@3 November 2003 - 21:43
clocker, I congratulate you on your reduction of the total number of fans. You are definitely showing me that you view things similar to the way I do. The simpler the better. That angled duct positioning is a smart idea. I also see that you have a fan adaptor there (experimental placment I assume).

Fewer fans is also less load on the power supply, leaving more power for your system.
Thanks VB.

The fan adapter is just holding a filter in place at the moment. Denver has a lot of dust in the air.
I am loathe to do any major hacking around on the case or my components till I get further along in my experiments. The adapter was handy so I screwed in into place...
Ultimately the angled fan adapter is going to end up on the case floor I suspect, directing air onto the video card heat sinks. I&#39;m too lazy to do it right now as it will require stripping out all the parts and frankly, my mounting method for the CPU heatsink, while very effective, is a pain in the ass to assemble. I hope to avoid the trauma until I&#39;m ready to mount the water block and other parts of the cooling system.

[clocker]

Okay.
Now it&#39;s time to establish some benchmarks.

I have SiSoft Sandra installed and was thinking of running the Burn in Wizard.

As I have never done this before I am looking for suggestions/alternatives.

Does this test stress the CPU sufficiently to get a good idea of my cooling properties, or is there another test that would be better? I want something that is repeatable so I can check different configurations, but I&#39;m not interested in testing to destruction...unlike the magazines, I have to buy my parts, no one is sending them to me for evaluation&#33;

Suggestions?

[ilw]

http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_cpu.html
all the testing programs you could ever want, but i think it may be worth checking for the latest versions
I&#39;ve never tried it but from the list it shows it sounds like cpu burn-in would get you the results you want i think theres a more up to date version here (http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_cpu.html). (it doesn&#39;t say it supports XP , but it does support NT and 2000? personally i&#39;d try it and see for myself if it works)
prime95 and superpi are also popular, but are more for testing stability, so you&#39;d really have to be pushing your limits to get the best use out of them.

[Virtualbody1234]

Superpi or burnintest

http://pw1.netcom.com/~hjsmith/Pi/Super_Pi.html
http://www.passmark.com/download/

I use these to stresstest systems.

[clocker]

Body,

I have DLed BurnIn Test Pro ( I already had hMonitor) and am ready to go.

Would you mind recommending some configuration settings for the test?
Duration, which tests to run and what level of stress?

I&#39;ll be out for a few hours, but I will be back later...

Thanks.

[Virtualbody1234]

For testing your CPU, set the Configuration>Test duty cycles to: CPU Math 100%, CPU MMX 100% and leave all others off. Run it like that for 30 minutes or more.

Don&#39;t worry about overstressing your system. Just be sure to keep a close watch of your CPU temps. If you&#39;re within reasonable temps nothing will happen to damage things.

You can experiment with all those settings to test different parts of your system. There is also quite good ram tester there.

Edit: Just FYI, clocker. It&#39;s snowing here today. :lol:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@4 November 2003 - 13:43

Edit: Just FYI, clocker. It&#39;s snowing here today. :lol:
Here, too.

Where is "there", Virtual?

What a great thread-I haven&#39;t had this much vicarious enjoyment in years.

This is a lot better than a Michael Moore movie. :)

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4+4 November 2003 - 11:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 4 November 2003 - 11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Virtualbody1234@4 November 2003 - 13:43

Edit: Just FYI, clocker. It&#39;s snowing here today. :lol:
Here, too.

Where is "there", Virtual?

What a great thread-I haven&#39;t had this much vicarious enjoyment in years.

This is a lot better than a Michael Moore movie. :) [/b][/quote]
Hey now.
Be nice.

OK VB, thanks.
I&#39;ll run the test right now.

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by clocker+3 November 2003 - 22:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 3 November 2003 - 22:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-_John_Lennon_@3 November 2003 - 19:10

That&#33; Is what I dont like about xasers.

Mine was about 50 bucks, not counting shipping.
You got a Xaser case for &#036;50?

Quite a bargain. [/b][/quote]
My case isnt xaser, im just saying I got mine for about 50 bucks.

The Xasers are a rip off.

[Virtualbody1234]

Here, too.

Where is "there", Virtual?
In Canada. :lol:


clocker,

I bet those test are going quite well.

[clocker]

Alrighty then...

Here are the results.

Pretest conditions. PC had been running for one hour.
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=FsoxkMhX45fR0dTqroJM0vFiq&ext=.jpg
The trial version of this test will only allow you to run it for 15 min. max., so I ran it twice, back to back...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=gJ3HSZ0xZZva8KFwIERmqhwv1&ext=.jpg
What a relief&#33; Here are the stats from the last (second) test...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=Oj2GpCFJhIMzZ86NunjelEl6o&ext=.jpg
That is a lot of adding and subtracting&#33;&#33;&#33; Here&#39;s the hmonitor report after the half hour of testing...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=oLDjuouOEPO1rpoZ214RDVcD5&ext=.jpg
For some reason both the burning app and hMonitor have reversed the readings for the CPU and the motherboard...obviously the chip is the higher temp.


All in all the numbers look pretty encouraging, I think.

[clocker]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_+4 November 2003 - 13:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (_John_Lennon_ @ 4 November 2003 - 13:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by clocker@3 November 2003 - 22:56
<!--QuoteBegin-_John_Lennon_@3 November 2003 - 19:10

That&#33; Is what I dont like about xasers.

Mine was about 50 bucks, not counting shipping.
You got a Xaser case for &#036;50?

Quite a bargain.
My case isnt xaser, im just saying I got mine for about 50 bucks.

The Xasers are a rip off. [/b][/quote]
Opinions are like assholes, blah,blah,blah.
I can get a steel box for 50 bucks, too.
I wanted something nicer...

[Virtualbody1234]

Looks good to me. You CPU is ready for just about anything. http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/thmbup.gif

Now it&#39;s time to try some other tests.

About the 15 minute limit, there are cracks for it. I don&#39;t know if there are any for that latest version but I know that some older ones work.

[Kunal]

your results are good, you can change your labels in hmonitor, i think its in settings or somthing like that, i dont use it no more so cant tell you exactly where it is

[clocker]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@4 November 2003 - 14:25


Now it&#39;s time to try some other tests.


Such as?

I&#39;m trying to dl 3D Mark to check out my video card, but it is proving to be an elusive little bastard...

Any other suggestions for video benchmarks?

[Virtualbody1234]

Such as?
Memory and video.

What&#39;s the problem with 3D Mark ? You can&#39;t download it or what?

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by clocker@4 November 2003 - 16:21
Opinions are like assholes, blah,blah,blah.
I can get a steel box for 50 bucks, too.
I wanted something nicer...
Woah there buddy, I never said Xasers arnt nice, I commend you for having the money to have one, yes, they are good quality, and flahsing, all im saying is that there expensive....... <_<

Oh and btw, my &#39;steel box&#39; is nice. :)

[clocker]

Sorry then, John.

Yes Body, 3D Mark is difficult to download. Either AOL is crapping out again (likely) or the whole net is seriously being affected by the sunspots (possible). At any rate, I can&#39;t seem to get it.
I&#39;ll keep looking.

[_John_Lennon_]

What is happening when you try to download it?

[Virtualbody1234]

Try here for 3D Mark: http://download.guru3d.com/3dmark/

Click the download link at the bottom of the page. You will have to agree to the licence agreement on the page that follows and then the download starts.

[clocker]

Thanks guys.
I&#39;m finally getting it (sloooowly, but getting it...). In an hour or so I should be good to go.

What is a respectable score on this test?

Edit:
I went to a aquarium supply store today. Saw some water pumps that were just cute as a button and relatively cheap at &#036;20-25. The only trouble is that they are all submersable pumps which use the water reservoir as their cooling medium. I can see how this would also help dampen any noise they may generate, but it also means that to a certain extent they are also heating the water supply to the radiator and the CPU. Probably not enough to be significant.
The bigger drawback is that the coolant reservoir now has to be large enough to hold the pump and the water and also must have a removable top. The tank I was hoping to use was sealed and only had the two feed pipes.
Any suggestions for a reservoir that would handle these requirements?

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by clocker@4 November 2003 - 20:20
Thanks guys.
I&#39;m finally getting it (sloooowly, but getting it...). In an hour or so I should be good to go.

What is a respectable score on this test?
What kind of video card do you have?

They have an excellant search database at their site, where you can query for projects with your same video card, clock setting for CPU, etc.

[clocker]

That figures.
I&#39;ll have to check it out.

I have a Radeon 9000Pro, slightly oc&#39;d.

Thanks again.

[_John_Lennon_]

I queried your Radeon 9000, + AMD XP processor, for 3dMark, 2001

The scores I got topped out at nearly 9300, with alot of scores under that 9k barrier.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Ok, why the hell did you buy a Xasers and take all of the Thermaltake signs off? and spray paint it? Doesnt it look like crap now? They look AWESOME the way they are. I can&#39;t believe you would pull that stuff off, but It&#39;s your case. I like it. Send us some pix of what it looks like with all of the stuff taken off and everything.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by clocker+4 November 2003 - 13:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 4 November 2003 - 13:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Virtualbody1234@4 November 2003 - 14:25


Now it&#39;s time to try some other tests.


Such as?

I&#39;m trying to dl 3D Mark to check out my video card, but it is proving to be an elusive little bastard...

Any other suggestions for video benchmarks? [/b][/quote]
i guess 3DMark is the dominant Direct3D test. 3DMark 2001 is still worth trying (it needs to be patched for DirectX 9 compatibility), since you&#39;ve got that Radeon 9000 and 3DMark 2003 is basically a DirectX 9 hardware test (i.e. it&#39;s designed primarily for Radeon 9500 & up, and GeforceFX-- any older card will show disappointing results and be unable to complete the entire test).

here are a couple of openGL tests which have enjoyed some popularity.

Aquamark -- http://www.aquamark3.com/

Vulpine GL Mark -- http://www.3dnews.ru/screens/vulpinegl_bench/

there are also "time demos" (benchmarks, essentially) built into a lot of games such as Quake 3, Unreal Tournament (and UT 2003), Halo, etc. you&#39;ve just gotta track down the info about how to initiate them. personally i&#39;d place a bit more stock in time demos and actual gameplay than i would in synthetic bench tests, but i guess synthetic benches are still a nice way to check out what visual effects are supported by the card and to make sure your stuff is operating correctly.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_@4 November 2003 - 18:25
I queried your Radeon 9000, + AMD XP processor, for 3dMark, 2001

The scores I got topped out at nearly 9300, with alot of scores under that 9k barrier.
last time i ran it, i got 8544 points with no overclocking or tweaks and just about the same setup as clocker (radeon 9000, athlon xp 2600+, nforce 2 ultra 400). not bad, i guess, considering that those 9300 scores are most likely the result of overclocking.

[clocker]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@4 November 2003 - 19:27
Ok, why the hell did you buy a Xasers and take all of the Thermaltake signs off? and spray paint it? Doesnt it look like crap now? They look AWESOME the way they are. I can&#39;t believe you would pull that stuff off, but It&#39;s your case. I like it. Send us some pix of what it looks like with all of the stuff taken off and everything.
Who said anything about spray paint?

The parts that I am thinking of changing are currently covered with black sign makers vinyl ( the stuff they use at those instant signs places with computer cut vinyl lettering) so I could judge the effect.
When (if :P ) I get done, the pieces will be anodized.
I suspect that I may be making a lot of changes to the front panels- I&#39;d like to do a nice fan control set up and also I will need some switches to control the H2O cooling operation, so it may be a while.

Doesnt it look like crap now?
Wash your mouth out with soap.

[Virtualbody1234]

Hey clocker, have you been able to get any temperature readings for your graphics card? I was wondering how well you think the Zalman video card cooler was doing?

How much does that cooler cost?

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@5 November 2003 - 03:21
(radeon 9000, athlon xp 2600+, nforce 2 ultra 400)
Why did you buy an Nforce 2 400Mhz board, if your only usin 2700Ram, when the 400Mhz is the 3200Ram.....

[3RA1N1AC]

i didn&#39;t say i had pc2700. i have pc3200 running at 333mhz. 400mhz FSB athlon XPs were pretty darned expensive when i bought the board, but i decided to spend a few extra bucks to leave that upgrade path open-- just in case i do want to get a 400mhz FSB athlon XP, before making the switch to 64bit.

if i were to get pc2700 and then decide i want to upgrade the CPU, i&#39;d just end up with RAM that lags behind the processor and prolly end up buying the RAM twice.

i dunno, maybe that sounds stupid. but it made sense to me. i don&#39;t think i need to justify my choice of parts to anyone, though.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@5 November 2003 - 10:00
Hey clocker, have you been able to get any temperature readings for your graphics card? I was wondering how well you think the Zalman video card cooler was doing?

How much does that cooler cost?
VB,

I have been reconfiguring the case again, so I haven&#39;t really had a chance to gather much data.
The heatsinks ( which are huge) do get warm, and the top one (the backside of the card, actually) gets as warm as the bottom (active side) so the heatpipe transfer definately works.
After I get this thing back together I&#39;ll hook my temp probe to the vid card and we&#39;ll see.
I&#39;m still experimenting with fan placement.
I&#39;ve decided to try site-specific cooling rather than front/back/top fan placement.
In a full tower case you really need either big ( 120mm) fans or 80mms set at a pretty high rpm to generate any appreciable airflow through the case.
Instead I&#39;ve now placed a fan to blow directly over the video card heatsinks and another to blow directly on the bottom of the HDD unit. Both fans are pulling air from the exterior of the case itself.
This required a complete stripdown of the pc again, so I&#39;m further refining the wiring and setting up what I hope will be the final fan control module. I&#39;ll take some pictures when I&#39;m done...with any luck later today.

The video card cooler runs about &#036;25-30 US, so that would be what, about &#036;500 Canadian? :P

[Virtualbody1234]

Originally posted by clocker@6 November 2003 - 08:21

The video card cooler runs about &#036;25-30 US, so that would be what, about &#036;500 Canadian? :P
:o About &#036;500 Canadian :o

Oh no that&#39;s way to expensive&#33; :angry: :angry:











&#036;30 USD After conversion it&#39;s really more like &#036;40 CDN.

I have only found one supplier so far around here and he want&#39;s &#036;50. I&#39;ll keep looking.

[clocker]

To be honest VB, I&#39;m really not too sure what that thing cost.

My local PC shop got in a big bag of Zalman goodies and I ravaged it before it hit the shelves. In exchange for being the beta tester/guinea pig I get a pretty healthy discount.

[clocker]

Stage Three
(hopefully the final stage of the aircooled era... ;) )

Just for grins I suspended several pieces of paper on string from the roof of my case. I wanted to see if it was possible to visualize the airflow in my case.
Results were something of a surprise and disappointment. Even with the fans at full blast ( keep in mind that these are the orange Thermaltake fans that come preinstalled in the case) the paper bits really didn&#39;t move around much. I was hoping to see better.
I theorized that in a large full tower case the standard arrangement of intake fans low in the front and exhaust fans high in the back plus one blowhole fan in the roof just didn&#39;t cut it. The fans would have to be much larger and possibly spinning at a higher rpm to get any demonstrable air current.
So I decided that instead of trying to generate a current of air and hope that it would get where it was really needed, maybe arranging the fans to be site specific would yield better results.
I figured that the three areas of fairly constant heat generation were the CPU (obviously), the harddrive and the videocard.
So I started hacking away and here is what I came up with.
The fan on the floor is mounted in such a way that it blows air ducted from the bottom of the case right over the heatsinks of the cooler on the video card.
The harddrive is mounted on the wall on vibration isolating standoffs. Behind it is another fan, again ducted to the outside of the case (this is visible in the second pic)
The heat from the monster heatsink is exhausted from the back by two fans (btw, all the fans are on switches and rheostats)....
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=1G3DqwvK4hq3eIFwaB4imHD3h&ext=.jpg
This second pic is of the back side of the motherboard mounting wall.
The fan for the HDD is visible in the lower LH corner. This is also where almost all the wiring for the different components is routed. I forgot to drill (at least) one hole while I had the pc disassembled, but I&#39;ll get around to it soon.
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=KBqMAiK6z8lQSvJTjqbvJ638j&ext=.jpg

Results for this setup are extremely encouraging so far.
I ran the burn in test 4 times back to back and at the end the CPU had maxed out at 34C and the HDD was at 23C. This is a significant improvement over my last set of numbers.

Edit: VirtBod,
I&#39;m going to run 3D Mark 2001 tonight and I&#39;ll hook up my temp probe to the Heatpipe sinks on my card. I&#39;ll let you know the temps ( although I can&#39;t vouch for the accuracy of this thing...)

[Virtualbody1234]

Great idea to cut a hole in the bottom of your case. http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/thmbup.gif

I have done the same thing except that I cut two holes, 80mm each. No fans or ducts, just fan grills. I have 2 fans at the usual place at the back of my tower. So that makes for 3 exhaust fans (including the on in the PS). All 3 run at a very slow 1450 RPM. Good airflow and superquiet.

Now, just to make my graghics card silent. That&#39;s what I need. B) I&#39;m still working on that. I&#39;ve been looking around for some copper or aluminium parts to build my own passive cooler. :)

[Evil Gemini]

http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=KBqMAiK6z8lQSvJTjqbvJ638j&ext=.jpg

Very Very clever :)

[clocker]

Okay, more revisions and tests.

The two fans on the back wall were removed.
One was placed on the front of the case.
Current fan configuration is:
One fan front case
One fan case roof
One fan behind HDD
One fan directed at the video card
Heatsink fan
Two fans in the PSU

All of the case fans are running on 5V and thus, very slowly.
HS fan is controlled by the motherboard- average speed is 1650rpm.

I have OCed the CPU from 2075Mhz up to 2300Mhz.
These are the results of my last burn-in test...
http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=OjpGgYYFNr9JdDZlPVZEG1Dj&ext=.jpg
After a 30min. test the CPU temp rose by only one degree C. Within 1 minute of the test&#39;s end the temp dropped back to 36C. HDD temp didn&#39;t move at all, it stayed constant at 28C. Video card temp rose .2 degrees- from 26.2 all the way up to 26.4C.

I have also run 3D Mark2001 video tests. This stresses the vid card much more.
The card temp (measured on the bottom,active side, heatsink) maxxed out at 28C.
My bechmark scores only reached 7450, which seems low, so apparently I have some tweaking to do. I have the newest Omega drivers and the program to tweak my video settings, so I&#39;m sure that I can do better.

VirtualBody,
I am sold on these heatpipe coolers&#33; They really seem to provide a very high level of heat dissipation (especially when augmented by site specific fans). If you have access to a milling machine the heatsinks would be child&#39;s play to machine. I&#39;m not so sure about the heatpipe itself, I&#39;m not at all familiar with the technology ( i.e. what&#39;s in those pipes?).
http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/0208/80Ab-4.gif
this picture is upside down, btw...
Although the technology really seems to work, the implementation seems intuitively FUBAR to me. Those massive heatsinks would appear to trap a lot of heat between them. Perhaps if you made a heatsink to fit the video card CPU but ran the heatpipe off the side and rotated the main heatsink 90 degrees (vertical instead of horizontal) you could achieve superior results with no fan assist.
Just a thought.

I&#39;m not really sure how much further I can go with straight air cooling.
I might repeat the burnin test disabling one fan at a time and see just how far I can go. It&#39;s possible that the blowhole fan (roof) and the front case fan are unnecessary, or at least not critical. All in all though, I am very pleased with the results so far. ;)