BitHQ's Wall of Shame

[Relanium]

We can see that on the main page:

You cheat? You'll bleed!

There is a never-ending struggle going on between private trackers and people who think to gain something by cheating. Well, let us inform you, cheaters do not gain anything by cheating. In fact, it is so easy to maintain a decent ratio on BitHQ, you shouldn't even have to cheat.

Cheaters will eventually always be caught up with. Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes they get identified fast. We are aware of certain active cheat-promoting websites (such as a certain German one, located in Luxembourgh), cheatprograms such as RM, PMR, WM and so on.. Don't worry, we know what to look for. The BitHQ staff is always actively searching for those who try to cheat the system, and they get a lot of help from a big share of fair playing users along the way: nobody likes cheaters.

BitHQ recently got some new tools to it's proposal, and will likely add a few more in the near future. And with these we also added this current page, the 'Wall of Shame', where you really do not wish to be seen on as a cheater. We will show usernames, IP addresses, used emails and so on of those who tried to cheat us. If you end up on this page, you will not be seen only to BitHQ members but you will be seen by virtually the whole wide world as people will not have to be a member to see the Wall of Shame. We all know how Google works, try to get yourself removed from that once the page gets indexed ;)

If you don't cheat, you have nothing to worry. Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details. If you give back what you took, like you should when torrenting (after all, if nobody shares, there wouldn't be much people interesting in giving either), you have nothing to fear.

If you are a cheater, and think to yourself "Ha! But I use a fake email address, a fake IP address or whatever", then rest assured, every change you make is stored in the system and will end up on our Wall of Shame.

Trust us, you do not wish to be listed here. It's your own choice to try and cheat here..

To the owners of other communities: feel free to use the data below as you see fit, we know for sure you don't like to have these people in your community either ;)
Wall of Shame

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[anon]

We are aware of certain active cheat-promoting websites (such as a certain German one, located in Luxembourgh)

Yay, we're famous!

And you don't even need to be registered to see this wall of shame...

[Relanium]

We are aware of certain active cheat-promoting websites (such as a certain German one, located in Luxembourgh)

Yay, we're famous!

And you don't even need to be registered to see this wall of shame...

xxxxxxxxxx ist das Leecher-Board der Zukunft! Hier bekommt ihr die neusten und besten Mods in der gesamten Szene!

;)

[anon]

So ist es :unsure:

[ca_aok]

Good riddance. I'm always happy to send their accounts down the drain, this is just yet another source of information I suppose.

[Quarterquack]

And that constitutes my orderly exit out of BitHQ. If a site doesn't respect its members (even the rotten eggs) it deserves no respect/time given back. Most cheaters that should be treated like this are the ones that do it for the fun of the chase. However, most others have reasons. I respect What so much more with their explanation/hearing people out system rather than a place that aims to turn a person's life miserable for faking a couple of numbers.

[Polarbear]

The problem is that no cheater detection is 100%. I wouldn't join that tracker.

[Cabalo]

The problem is that no cheater detection is 100%. I wouldn't join that tracker.
My thoughts exactly.

[A]

Not to mention all the confusion and problems it creates if someone is wrongly accused and then a chain banning commences,with all the brownie point collectors and staffs of other trackers who get orgasms by banning someone religiously looking at the table like business people looking at stock market.


We will show usernames, IP addresses, used emails
:frusty:

[OlegL]

And that constitutes my orderly exit out of BitHQ. If a site doesn't respect its members (even the rotten eggs) it deserves no respect/time given back. Most cheaters that should be treated like this are the ones that do it for the fun of the chase. However, most others have reasons. I respect What so much more with their explanation/hearing people out system rather than a place that aims to turn a person's life miserable for faking a couple of numbers.

But they wrote: "Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details." So, bithq staffers show the same respect to their members that what.cd staffers show to theirs. If it's proven that someone is a cheater, he/she will get banned from either tracker.

[Quarterquack]

But they wrote: "Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details." So, bithq staffers show the same respect to their members that what.cd staffers show to theirs. If it's proven that someone is a cheater, he/she will get banned from either tracker.

Except, only one of those trackers demeans and mocks the people at fault publicly. Toting the ability to expose someone online is as bad as the cheating behavior itself. People's punishment for cheating is and has always been banning them from the tracker (and others, too). However, exposing people like this is wrong and if everybody else thinks it's fair because it's a simple pseudonym, I dare you to do it to yourself first.

Imagine how bad it could be if governmental bodies decided to release all the information they had on someone who is a 100% convict. Sinking to the level of scum only makes you scum.

[OlegL]

But they wrote: "Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details." So, bithq staffers show the same respect to their members that what.cd staffers show to theirs. If it's proven that someone is a cheater, he/she will get banned from either tracker.

Except, only one of those trackers demeans and mocks the people at fault publicly. Toting the ability to expose someone online is as bad as the cheating behavior itself. People's punishment for cheating is and has always been banning them from the tracker (and others, too). However, exposing people like this is wrong and if everybody else thinks it's fair because it's a simple pseudonym, I dare you to do it to yourself first.

Imagine how bad it could be if governmental bodies decided to release all the information they had on someone who is a 100% convict. Sinking to the level of scum only makes you scum.

Okay, would it be a stupid thing to say that it's possible to survive on any tracker without cheating?

[A]

Okay, would it be a stupid thing to say that it's possible to survive on any tracker without cheating?
Depends on ISP.

But cheating is not the way to take,also what BitHQ is going to do is more fucked up.

[echohead]

someone posted this link in an irc channel, and im glad they did; not because i learned something but because of the hilarious pro-cheater comments posted so far.

the only people complaining about this have either:

1. been kicked off bithq for cheating, or
2. never been on bithq, and have a history of cheating on other sites

...period.



bithq is a source media site, meaning that (with very few exceptions) the site only indexes full DVDs, full Blu-ray discs, and the occasional piece of software. there is little reason for cheaters to download movies of that size and at that level of quality. bithq is also one of the easiest private trackers to maintain ratio on -- they have an insane amount of freeleech, which includes just about every bluray and a large percentage of unique/special dvds.

i hope this "wall of shame" idea gets implemented on other sites. if you cant follow the rules and seed back, get off bittorrent and pay for a unsenet subscription.

[Quarterquack]

the only people complaining about this have either:

1. been kicked off bithq for cheating, or
2. never been on bithq, and have a history of cheating on other sites

...period.

Wrong on both accounts, and I hope you realize that you're simply trolling or are being incredibly droll just because you think you're in the right. I'm raising a legitimate point here, but you've dubbed me as pro-cheater or a cheater myself. It's not your way or the highway believe it or not. If you are morally accepting of the fact that a user can be bum-raped because they make a mistake (knowingly or not) then I hope it goes around and bites you in the bum eventually when someone finds enough morality, or lack thereof, to do the same to you.

Again, I will attempt to make this sound as sane as possible. The punishment for account/system abuse is the loss of the account in question. It's an equal and opposite reaction to a largely offensive/abusive action. Publicly demeaning users will never be a solution, the people you are truly hurting are the ones who are in the experimental range, not knowing whether they should cheat or not, and largely ignorant to how to hide it properly. By doing this, you're pushing them over the edge, instead of offering to reason with them as you should.


Okay, would it be a stupid thing to say that it's possible to survive on any tracker without cheating?

I have never cheated and keep a (near) perfect record of every kb uploaded/accounted for (seedbox statements, monthly bw etc), in case issues like cheating come up with any given staff. I have survived on every site I've wanted to be a member of using a combination of patience/money and I doubt anyone legitimately has a problem which hinders sharing to the point of being forced to cheat.

However, I'm still willing to accept that there might be a possibility that someone is in such a situation; the solution is to try and help them, offer them alternatives etc. NOT to simply let them cheat. If people like Anon himself don't cheat 100% of the time, that's the biggest slap in the face for people who believe cheaters are inherently evil.

Give me a choice any day, and I'd rather be an acquaintance of a cheater rather than someone who chooses public humiliation as a solution to any given problem.

:closedeye

[OlegL]

If people like Anon himself don't cheat 100% of the time, that's the biggest slap in the face for people who believe cheaters are inherently evil.


Are you saying that because Anon doesn't cheat 100% of the time, it wouldn't be a true thing to say that cheaters are inherently evil? :) I am actually really surprised that Anon is a cheater. He seems like a totally nice guy. I don't know why he decided to embrace darkness. :) It doesn't make sense to me that he cheats because his upload speed is 25 kB/sec or a little lower/higher than that.

[Quarterquack]

Are you saying that because Anon doesn't cheat 100% of the time, it wouldn't be a true thing to say that cheaters are inherently evil? :)

Correct. If a coder himself finds enough reason to play the rules of the game every now and then, that's proof enough that cheaters are reasonable people that should be reasoned with and not just scrapped. People, whether respectable or not given the eye of the beholder, are not disposable. Any tracker that runs with a modicum of that dogma isn't worth any respect in return.


I am actually really surprised that Anon is a cheater. He seems like a totally nice guy. I don't know why he decided to embrace darkness. :) It doesn't make sense to me that he cheats because his upload speed is 25 kB/sec or a little lower/higher than that.

Google his name and check out the 5th result if you're interested in finding out more. Be smart, though, you don't want it to look like you're snooping around for cheats. Taboo, bad luck etc. :yes:

[anon]

Google his name and check out the 5th result if you're interested in finding out more. Be smart, though, you don't want it to look like you're snooping around for cheats.

Meaning you should shield yourself against the CSS leak or just use a PHP proxy to access the forum.

On a sidenote, the fourth result has nothing to do with me :D

[echohead]

Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details. If you give back what you took, like you should when torrenting, you have nothing to fear.this "wall of shame" is a way to fairly deal with people who took it upon themselves to disrespect a site and its peers, as well as possibly the beginnings of a way for private trackers to publicly share email and ip blocklists with each other. the process of adding people to the list obviously wont be automated, so one can only assume that the root of peoples' concerns is that other sites will add the wall of shame ip/email info to their blacklists. and they should. disagreeing with an uninformed, selfishly motivated opinion doesnt make me a "troll" -- it makes you seem childish for using the "I'm rubber and you're glue" argument to justify why cheaters should be given second and third chances to poison bittorrent swarms.

but then again, i suppose i could end up coming back to this topic and apologizing to you if im ever make the "mistake" of burning through my 500 GB buffer on bithq. also i dont see how being "bum-raped" would affect me, since im not and have never been homeless ;)

for anyone still concerned about what bithq is doing, you may be interested to know that thepiratebay.org is a very large bittorrent site/tracker that never checks for cheaters... so all those "mistakes" you routinely make will go unnoticed. DON'T CHEAT.



boo hoo even though i can download at 40 Mb/sec i can only upload at 4 kb/sec. woe is me i have the most lopsided bandwidth on the face of the earth

[anon]

you may be interested to know that thepiratebay.org is a very large bittorrent site/tracker that never checks for cheaters...

But they don- oh, wait.

[Quarterquack]

this "wall of shame" is a way to fairly deal with people who took it upon themselves to disrespect a site and its peers, as well as possibly the beginnings of a way for private trackers to publicly share email and ip blocklists with each other. the process of adding people to the list obviously wont be automated, so one can only assume that the root of peoples' concerns is that other sites will add the wall of shame ip/email info to their blacklists. and they should. disagreeing with an uninformed, selfishly motivated opinion doesnt make me a "troll" -- it makes you seem childish for using the "I'm rubber and you're glue" argument to justify why cheaters should be given second and third chances to poison bittorrent swarms.

but then again, i suppose i could end up coming back to this topic and apologizing to you if im ever make the "mistake" of burning through my 500 GB buffer on bithq. also i dont see how being "bum-raped" would affect me, since im not and have never been homeless ;)

Touche. Your first reasonable argument. How about these two extremely reasonable pointers:

1) Give me one legitimate way by which a cheater hurts, rather in your own words "poisons", a swarm. The swarm will be just as active with or without him. He only stands to benefit himself, and hurt no one.

2) Do you think What's system is unreasonable? Dealing by people in a simple case by case basis when they have 100,000 members seems a tad much, but if you're not made of enough patience and perseverance to work for the better good of even the rotten eggs in a society then you shouldn't be running a tracker at all. (Not you directly, staffers in general). If you truly care about the health of the tracker and its community, you will try to help everyone, including those who have made mistakes. Being an active/helpful member doesn't need much if you're only willing to provide those resources to the people who don't need it, like the non-cheaters.

As I said before, the pros on the circuit will go around and keep waffling (or whatever it is they call it) and avoiding all efforts to catch them. You'll only harm the people you could have helped this way.

I hope you can see that I'm resorting to my last ounce of remaining patience/civility. Should you choose to mock the entire situation one more time, I'll have to sink to the same level. And I assure you, I am funny when responding to witless remarks.

[OlegL]

1) Give me one legitimate way by which a cheater hurts, rather in your own words "poisons", a swarm. The swarm will be just as active with or without him. He only stands to benefit himself, and hurt no one.



If everyone started cheating, there would be nothing to download/upload. So, of course, cheaters poison swarms.

[stoi]

I should not really get involved, but alas, i cant help myself lol

1 cheater probably doesnt hurt a swarm, but i uploaded a 10 gig torrent 2 days ago, i only have 80KBs upload, so its going to take me 2 days to seed the thing, someone jumps on and helps me seed, he is uploading at 200KBs i think great (this is all true btw).

Now if i was not the owner, so could not see behind the scenes, I may have thought, great i will turn my PC off tonight, I have help, then i will jump on again in the morning, and by then, quite a lot of the leechers will have a huge chunk of this, only to find out, the other "seeder" has uploaded 6 gig and no one else got anything.

I did PM the member in question, and he gave me a bullshit story about hackers on his line, but i let him keep his account and warned him I would be watching him like a hawk.

if there are 1000 seeders/1000 leechers, they yes 1 cheater wont harm it, but its more about etiquete then harming stuff, why should that 1 member get away with not uploading 1 byte of that torrent, when 1999 others have to.

I would say that most cheaters either cheat because

A: they dont want to get banned
B: they can make a buffer and then hit and run on other torrents
C: they want to get to a higher class, to get invites, so they can trade for better/other trackers

But a lot also do it just because they can, I wont lie we get our fair share of cheats, even members that want to cheat the wait time to get SP (even though they cant), so most are just impatient and bone idle (even though letting your client seed for awhile is probably less work than actual cheating lol)

As for this wall of shame, its entirely up to them what they do, but I for one wont be adding anything to it, I just dont agree with making it public, with IPs and Emails listed for everyone to see. There are ways and means of doing this, and to me, this is not the way, but up to them like i said.

[OlegL]

Yeah, I don't agree with this Wall of Shame thing too.

[Aristocles]

What would concern me is the implementation. Here is an in concreto , albeit completely empirical example:

I joined a tracker. This tracker tracked "apps". I meandered around a bit and choose something to download that I had no interest in but for the time being would be good to get myself started with. The next day I checked in, or attempted to, and found some pathetic puerile tripe, in the form of a message using vulgarities and slang; the best I could discern, it accused me of 'cheating'. I turned to "IdolEyes" for an explanation, as I am not internet savvy about such matters. He confirmed my suspicions. Do I?, have I?, do I even have knowledge of how to CHEAT? Nope. In no way. "IdolEyes" and I reasoned that it was the seedbox that I employed. He advised contacting them and informing them that I had a seedbox and that it was the answer to the issue at hand. I choose not to based on the "mesage/accusation" that I read. But I wonder if they had slapped good ole "Aristocles" onto some sort of list what might have been the consequences? I have, for the most part informed any tracker that I am a member of that I have a seedbox, now- as per "IdolEyes'" advice. Live and learn. Perhaps this is meaningless, as the policy in question is intended to be implemented in such a way as to avoid the above. If so then take this as the ramblings of a bored mind.

[ca_aok]

1) Give me one legitimate way by which a cheater hurts, rather in your own words "poisons", a swarm. The swarm will be just as active with or without him. He only stands to benefit himself, and hurt no one.

2) Do you think What's system is unreasonable? Dealing by people in a simple case by case basis when they have 100,000 members seems a tad much, but if you're not made of enough patience and perseverance to work for the better good of even the rotten eggs in a society then you shouldn't be running a tracker at all. (Not you directly, staffers in general). If you truly care about the health of the tracker and its community, you will try to help everyone, including those who have made mistakes. Being an active/helpful member doesn't need much if you're only willing to provide those resources to the people who don't need it, like the non-cheaters.

As I said before, the pros on the circuit will go around and keep waffling (or whatever it is they call it) and avoiding all efforts to catch them. You'll only harm the people you could have helped this way.

I hope you can see that I'm resorting to my last ounce of remaining patience/civility. Should you choose to mock the entire situation one more time, I'll have to sink to the same level. And I assure you, I am funny when responding to witless remarks.
1) Many cheaters turn off their upload entirely, some of their client mods have this functionality built in. Why bother seeding when you can just fudge the numbers? Not only does this decrease the number of actual seeds in the swarm, but can at times lead to more hashfails for the regular users depending on the sophistication of the cheating tool.

2) While publicly posting their IPs is in bad taste, you must be aware that these sorts of details are constantly passed around. There are entire forums/subforums and IRC channels dedicated towards this sort of thing. (Pro tip: what sort of things do you think get posted in torrent celeb forums?).

I have no respect for these people who go against the very spirit of P2P and the spirit of the system. As far as I'm concerned, they can fuck right back off to the pirate bay, newsgroups, etc if they don't want to bother seeding. Compared to trading, cheating is about a hundred times worse, as at least a trader might legitimately use their account. Cheaters leech a place dry for the sport of it. If your upload speed is so terrible you can't participate in a system where you're meant to share back, perhaps private BT isn't the right filesharing method for you. There are many others. Or hell... use a ratioless tracker! There are a million of those these days for all sorts of content, and plenty others with bonus systems to help those with poor upload speeds.

If someone is new to torrenting, perhaps they'll see a board like this and be like "hey, trading is ok". They might not know any better. Cheating, on the other hand, requires a conscious decision on your part to break tracker rules you know are being broken. There's no one who "accidentally" cheats. You have to go seek out the methods and install them on your machine.

As for someone being "nice" determining their character... some of the most upstanding people I know are total jackasses, and some of the nicest people I've met are liars, criminals, thieves, and idiots. Welcome to the real world.

[echohead]

As I said before, the pros on the circuit will go around and keep waffling (or whatever it is they call it) and avoiding all efforts to catch them. You'll only harm the people you could have helped this way.since youre obviously not aware of its existence, allow me to introduce you to shadowolf (http://code.google.com/p/shadowolf/). its a bittorrent tracker very close to being completed, and will be used on many prominent trackers.

what makes shadowolf different is that its 1) written in java, 2) highly secure even by private tracker standards, and 3) has built-in automatic cheater detection. the cheater detection is highly accurate and error-proof, so these "pro" cheaters you speak so highly of will be either banned from the sites in question, or will have to write a completely new cheating program that takes advantage of an exploit in the world's only java bittorrent tracker.


I hope you can see that I'm resorting to my last ounce of remaining patience/civility. Should you choose to mock the entire situation one more time, I'll have to sink to the same level. And I assure you, I am funny when responding to witless remarks. heres the thing. youre a tool arguing in favor of cheaters being allowed to keep doing what they do, and i couldnt give less of a shit about anything you have to say. have fun arguing with someone that posted here 4 times.

[ca_aok]

Is that the tracker that oorza is coding? I was under the impression it was sorta stalled due to lack of free time. By the way, XBTT has built in cheat detection as well (a rather basic system), at least the last build I was playing around with did. We're talking basic on the level of "this user is uploading faster than he should be", which can then be followed up with a check for a seedbox, etc. But it'd be interesting if he's come up with some robust detection methods. There's also a possibility that Ocelot will be released at some point, though everything I've been told leads me to believe that project is stalled at the moment as well.

[Quarterquack]

heres the thing. youre a tool arguing in favor of cheaters being allowed to keep doing what they do, and i couldnt give less of a shit about anything you have to say. have fun arguing with someone that posted here 4 times.

You seem to think that resorting to childish semantics is akin to winning an argument. You think righteousness is synonymous with being right, and anyone who disagrees with you due to moral implications is either a tool or a cheater. Decorum is fine, as long as you accept the fact that some people have issues with what you're doing for reasons other than you think they have.

By the way, good job stepping down from infantile wit right down to verbal animosity. How many arguments has that won you?



1) Give me one legitimate way by which a cheater hurts, rather in your own words "poisons", a swarm. The swarm will be just as active with or without him. He only stands to benefit himself, and hurt no one.

2) Do you think What's system is unreasonable? Dealing by people in a simple case by case basis when they have 100,000 members seems a tad much, but if you're not made of enough patience and perseverance to work for the better good of even the rotten eggs in a society then you shouldn't be running a tracker at all. (Not you directly, staffers in general). If you truly care about the health of the tracker and its community, you will try to help everyone, including those who have made mistakes. Being an active/helpful member doesn't need much if you're only willing to provide those resources to the people who don't need it, like the non-cheaters.

As I said before, the pros on the circuit will go around and keep waffling (or whatever it is they call it) and avoiding all efforts to catch them. You'll only harm the people you could have helped this way.

I hope you can see that I'm resorting to my last ounce of remaining patience/civility. Should you choose to mock the entire situation one more time, I'll have to sink to the same level. And I assure you, I am funny when responding to witless remarks.
1) Many cheaters turn off their upload entirely, some of their client mods have this functionality built in. Why bother seeding when you can just fudge the numbers? Not only does this decrease the number of actual seeds in the swarm, but can at times lead to more hashfails for the regular users depending on the sophistication of the cheating tool.

2) While publicly posting their IPs is in bad taste, you must be aware that these sorts of details are constantly passed around. There are entire forums/subforums and IRC channels dedicated towards this sort of thing. (Pro tip: what sort of things do you think get posted in torrent celeb forums?).

I have no respect for these people who go against the very spirit of P2P and the spirit of the system. As far as I'm concerned, they can fuck right back off to the pirate bay, newsgroups, etc if they don't want to bother seeding. Compared to trading, cheating is about a hundred times worse, as at least a trader might legitimately use their account. Cheaters leech a place dry for the sport of it. If your upload speed is so terrible you can't participate in a system where you're meant to share back, perhaps private BT isn't the right filesharing method for you. There are many others. Or hell... use a ratioless tracker! There are a million of those these days for all sorts of content, and plenty others with bonus systems to help those with poor upload speeds.

If someone is new to torrenting, perhaps they'll see a board like this and be like "hey, trading is ok". They might not know any better. Cheating, on the other hand, requires a conscious decision on your part to break tracker rules you know are being broken. There's no one who "accidentally" cheats. You have to go seek out the methods and install them on your machine.

As for someone being "nice" determining their character... some of the most upstanding people I know are total jackasses, and some of the nicest people I've met are liars, criminals, thieves, and idiots. Welcome to the real world.

1) I understand. It was more of a pointer to remind him that cheaters while not adhering to the rules are still not doing as much damage as they are made out to be. Some trackers run with minimal cheating detection/repercussions and are still alive and kicking.

2) I'm on a couple of torrent celeb forums myself and I've seen the thread issues; I've heard of the things that come up on p2pg and the irc chans as well. I understand the necessity of trackers holding hand in hand to provide as much effort repelling cheating efforts as are made by the other party proliferating them. It's one big melting pot and everyone's doing their job, I have no gripes with that.

Accidental cheating without tools happens all the time with multiple trackers per torrent entry in uT etc. and a bunch of other "innocent" acts that could be noted as cheating. No cheat detection system is 100% proof, and a fair bit of the time innocent users are caught in the backfire of these systems. What happens when a user like that (like myself and TL, or Aristocles and whatever tracker he had problems with) are posted for the public to see? See, I have no problems with paying for my mistakes, and I'm sure cheaters who do it knowingly understand the consequences and carry out their actions after being informed of the risks. Just as it's stupid to assume that all traders do it knowing that it's wrong, a lot of cheaters do it without knowing it's wrong either.

Let me just explain my perspective really quickly: I ran a game hacking business not too long back, it is now defunct, but I did come across a lot of people that used my hacks just because they saw everyone else doing it and thought it was the norm. The large majority (over 90%) of gaming communities forbid this behavior, but in their perspective, it was the norm. I'm sure Anon has similar stories to share about how he knows someone cheated without knowing it's wrong, or because they saw someone link to it off-forum and thought it would be cool to try out.

Blatantly assuming that all cheaters do it knowingly and intentionally hurt the trackers is stupid. As I said, I'm not defending cheaters, I'm defending the infinitesimally small minority of them that could see the light/turn around/are reasonable/don't know it's wrong.

As for the last part of your post; your fault for hunting for honor among thieves. ;)

[stoi]

Going to bed in a minute but have to reply.

Why do you think tracker vannilla sources and even forums with mods on the for that tracker software, never have cheat scripts built in or on those forums.

A: because people like anon, can get the code, see how it works, and then write code to make it defunct before it even goes on 2 trackers.

Personally, that is the first time i have heard of that java tracker, lets see how it does when it is released but PHP and mysql and C are lightweight and can handle lots of peers and connections, java if azureus is anything to go by cant. and if it has cheat detections in from the get go, it wont be long before they are null and void.

Its just like gaming and the scene, game companies try all sorts to stop piracy, but the scene is 1 step ahead (well apart with the bloody PS3) but 99.9% of the time they are, a tracker will do somthing, the cheaters will negate it with something else.

[mrnobody]

The first thing that came to my mind was gaming server's "Wall of Shame". Several servers post IP, game username of "caught" cheaters. So, it's nothing really new.

If they say they'll look deeply into each case before making it public, then i'll believe them to begin with. If you don't like it you can shouldn't join the tracker, or leave the tracker...not worth bitching about it.

[Quarterquack]

The first thing that came to my mind was gaming server's "Wall of Shame". Several servers post IP, game username of "caught" cheaters. So, it's nothing really new.

Punkbuster, Valve VAC integration at times, most gaming leagues, AA fiascos a few years back etc. Adnuo. Doesn't make it right at all, either.


If they say they'll look deeply into each case before making it public, then i'll believe them to begin with. If you don't like it you can shouldn't join the tracker, or leave the tracker...not worth bitching about it.

I understand and had decided to go by this before I even made my first reply in this thread. I really hope there is some sort of chance of retribution for the people that can be helped/understood, though. It would be a waste pulling the plug on a bunch of potential good users because people think the time/effort put in is not worth the gains.

[A]

If your upload speed is so terrible you can't participate in a system where you're meant to share back, perhaps private BT isn't the right filesharing method for you.
Or ... spend 10$ on a seedbox and buffer the shit out of trackers and hit and run on everything.I wonder whats the difference between the two methods.


(Pro tip: what sort of things do you think get posted in torrent celeb forums?)
I believe sharing info including IP address,email etc publically is the issue here.

and lol at the java blah blah blah cheat detection.My ass.

[Polarbear]

the cheater detection is highly accurate and error-proof

Wow cool, then there's nothing to worry about. I really want to join BitHQ now. I'm already a member of HDBits but now I believe BitHQ is much better. I'm going to delete my HDBits account as soon as I join.

Just one little question. It will never ever happen, that this cheater detection incorrectly flags an account, will it? I mean it's 100% error free, right? You gave it a long test run before and it's perfect.

The guy who coded OINK's anti-cheat script (which is believed one of the bests until today) once said: there's is no 100% correct cheater detection. Every client can have a hickup once in a while and there will always be accounts that are wrongly flagged.

I guess you made it. You developed the first 100% error free software. Gongrats. How come I never heard of the tracker before when they have such excellent coders?

First I was a little worried. Hey, I mean all my personal data could be published when your cheater detection had some bugs.

But you know what. I trust your coders. You totally convinced me that you're the first one to achieve an 100% error free anti cheat script. You're right to be proud about it.

Please someone invite me to BitHQ.

[echohead]

Is that the tracker that oorza is coding? I was under the impression it was sorta stalled due to lack of free time.its stalled (for the time being), but from what ive been told its my understanding that its close to being finished anyway.


Personally, that is the first time i have heard of that java tracker, lets see how it does when it is released but PHP and mysql and C are lightweight and can handle lots of peers and connections, java if azureus is anything to go by cant.actually java was chosen intentionally because it handles larger numbers of peers better than C/mysql/PHP... its not as efficient for smaller swarms, but for larger sites java apparently works better.


I believe sharing info including IP address,email etc publically is the issue here.The issue is that people are completely ignoring this:
Only people from whom we are 100% sure they cheat, we will show these details. ...for the sake of being able to claim there will be a flood of innocent people accused of cheating that have their personal information exposed. In reality what will happen is that any account flagged as "cheating" will be carefully reviewed before any information is added to the wall of shame, and a fair number of legitimate cheaters will be blacklisted from several private sites.


and lol at the java blah blah blah cheat detection.My ass. you're right, im talking out of my ass and this is all a joke. http://code.google.com/p/shadowolf/


Wow cool, then there's nothing to worry about. I really want to join BitHQ now. I'm already a member of HDBits but now I believe BitHQ is much better. I'm going to delete my HDBits account as soon as I join.There is some overlap between HDBits and BitHQ, but for the most part they serve two completely different purposes. You'd know that if you were on either one.


Just one little question. It will never ever happen, that this cheater detection incorrectly flags an account, will it? I mean it's 100% error free, right?It doesn't have to be. All the tracker does is report cheaters/hit-n-runners to staff members. All decision-making when it comes to accounts is handled by them.


You gave it a long test run before and it's perfect[...] I guess you made it. You developed the first 100% error free software. Gongrats. I haven't tested it because I have absolutely nothing to do with its development (and never claimed to, either). But it has been beta-tested on a private site tracker and as far as I know everything went well.


The guy who coded OINK's anti-cheat script (which is believed one of the bests until today) once said: there's is no 100% correct cheater detection. Every client can have a hickup once in a while and there will always be accounts that are wrongly flagged.Thank you for sharing an obscure and unverifiable quote someone on a site that no longer exists may have said 4 years ago. Funny thing... you dont have to be knowledgeable to say that no cheater detection is infallible. All you need is one single example of it being wrong, even if it was right a billion times before that.


How come I never heard of the tracker before when they have such excellent coders?If you're talking about shadowolf, its because the developers arent all that concerned with updating bittorrent forum whores on the status of their project. If you're referring to BitHQ, its because trading whores arent interested in a site that only indexes full dvds and bluray discs.


First I was a little worried. Hey, I mean all my personal data could be published when your cheater detection had some bugs.What personal data? The only information BitHQ is going to post are usernames, emails and IP addresses. Many people have different usernames for each bittorrent site they use, email addresses are easily changed (for free) and many places like gmail let you forward mail from other addresses, and there are plenty of ways to spoof/mask your IP address... or you could just move. There's no privacy issue here; cheaters are just crying over privacy out of fear that they could legitimately lose accounts on several sites if their info gets posted on bithq.

[bigdaddydude]

This should keep most of the cheaters and tracker collectors away.

[Polarbear]

Sounds great!

Of course I'm not a member of HDBits. I just made that up to sound cool, you know. You found that out pretty fast you smart boy.

Can I have an invite now?

[Cabalo]

I can't help but laugh when I read such things as "In reality what will happen is that any account flagged as "cheating" will be carefully reviewed before any information is added to the wall of shame, and a fair number of legitimate cheaters will be blacklisted from several private sites."
This is bullshit. Trackers have too many kids on their ranks, trying to prove their worth by the number of accounts they disable, and now with an even better mechanism, the number of people they snitch.
Don't think tracker staff are all mature. It's quite the opposite. Mature ones are becoming a gem in the current days.
That whole system is asking to be abused.


That new "shadowolf" (crap name for a source btw) will easily be beaten. What.cd was beaten, and admitted defeat when they had to ban clients. So it's not that the coder on "shadowolf" will invent the powder. Just don't buy all the things you are told.

[Mihai]

since youre obviously not aware of its existence, allow me to introduce you to shadowolf (http://code.google.com/p/shadowolf/). its a bittorrent tracker very close to being completed, and will be used on many prominent trackers.

what makes shadowolf different is that its 1) written in java, 2) highly secure even by private tracker standards, and 3) has built-in automatic cheater detection. the cheater detection is highly accurate and error-proof, so these "pro" cheaters you speak so highly of will be either banned from the sites in question, or will have to write a completely new cheating program that takes advantage of an exploit in the world's only java bittorrent tracker.


Now that's a big statement to make...I'm very curious to see what they can make of it but what I wanna say is:Rest assured, if sombody wants to cheat he will find a way to do that.


But a lot also do it just because they can, I wont lie we get our fair share of cheats, even members that want to cheat the wait time to get SP (even though they cant), so most are just impatient and bone idle (even though letting your client seed for awhile is probably less work than actual cheating lol)

Now that's true and it's pretty stupid to cheat, in this case on BCG where you just have to seed.And it's not the only one in this case...

[Quarterquack]

cheaters are just crying over privacy out of fear that they could legitimately lose accounts on several sites if their info gets posted on bithq.

It's funny because he still thinks I either cheat or support cheaters. :closedeye

[Mihai]

Originally Posted by echohead
cheaters are just crying over privacy out of fear that they could legitimately lose accounts on several sites if their info gets posted on bithq.

Funny.You know what would be even funnier?Tracker staff ignoring your public list because they are not idiot enough to ban somebody because of a statement made on your tracker:happy:

[ca_aok]

I love it when cheaters get butthurt :lol:

[Quarterquack]

I love it when cheaters get butthurt :lol:

I'm going to hurt you. :angry:

:lol:

[ca_aok]

That was in reference to mihai who is actually a cheater, not you :lol:

[anon]

1) Many cheaters turn off their upload entirely, some of their client mods have this functionality built in. Why bother seeding when you can just fudge the numbers? Not only does this decrease the number of actual seeds in the swarm, but can at times lead to more hashfails for the regular users depending on the sophistication of the cheating tool.

Not true.

[A]

...for the sake of being able to claim there will be a flood of innocent people accused of cheating that have their personal information exposed. In reality what will happen is that any account flagged as "cheating" will be carefully reviewed before any information is added to the wall of shame, and a fair number of legitimate cheaters will be blacklisted from several private sites.

You dont get it do you?Releasing personal info publically cheater or not is the problem here.And about that java thing,I wasnt saying it isnt being developed,I can only lmao when you say its a perfect cheat detecting system.In what ever ways one looks at it,what you guys are going to do is bullshit.How would you like if your IP,email address etc gets plastered all over the place?

[Quarterquack]

Save your breath Aby. I already asked him that and he said he would never put himself in such a position. You might as well start calling him brickwall instead of echohead.

[mrnobody]

Originally Posted by echohead
cheaters are just crying over privacy out of fear that they could legitimately lose accounts on several sites if their info gets posted on bithq.

Funny.You know what would be even funnier?Tracker staff ignoring your public list because they are not idiot enough to ban somebody because of a statement made on your tracker:happy:



That was in reference to mihai who is actually a cheater, not you :lol:

:glag:

[Aristocles]

echohead:

By what criterion/criteria is/are the following measured:

". . . bittorrent forum whores . . ."

That is to 'say', what defines the above? Would it be anyone who expresses disagreement with your individual thoughts or your overall argument? Be those disagreements ultimately valid or invalid. . .

Considering the skills of some of these guys and their clear lack of moral qualms, I would think long and hard about splashing their 'personal details' on a web page. If some are actually vicious, then guess who will next have their "personal details" up for grabs?

anon:

Clearly I am rather a brutish dolt and have totally missed that you are a blatant 'cheater' (contextually interesting term). Admittedly I have read on here references to it but I thought it was merely goodnatured ribbing. Specifically, why do you engage in such nefarious behavior?

[anon]

anon:

Clearly I am rather a brutish dolt and have totally missed that you are a blatant 'cheater' (contextually interesting term). Admittedly I have read on here references to it but I thought it was merely goodnatured ribbing. Specifically, why do you engage in such nefarious behavior?

http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/379218-To-ban-or-not-to-ban...This-is-the-Q..?p=3335927#post3335927

[Aristocles]

OK, now I am clear. (Odd that I missed that thread, well, not really, sometimes I do not login here for a bit.)

So, you are a 'cheater' with a slow line and a large rationalization. :)

[t00z]

Christ, what a bunch of drama and whatnot going on in here. Even up to Java ranting an unreleased tracker source code, based on how Vuze eats your RAM.

Be happy BitHQ announces this stuff. Now you know that you shouldn't use the anymore. Not if you're a cheater, and not if you're not a cheater. I don't want a 'public' announcement of my username + email/IP on a site, so I'll just quit using it when they implant this crap. And no, I don't cheat, but I'm pretty sure that even this glorious masterscript will make an error every now and then. No thanks.

Everything would be so easy if everyone applied this method. It would make a pretty good site kill itself, and it would save people from having to cry like 3-years-olds in this thread.

[echohead]

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays... i think they'll be just fine without you.

in other news, they have the first cheater's info listed on the wall.

[Cabalo]

in other news, they have the first cheater's info listed on the wall.
Yay! :rolleyes:

[Polarbear]

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays...

How many full Blu-Rays are tracked?

[Radon0r]

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays...

How many full Blu-Rays are tracked?

I didn't see a Blu-ray category so I searched for "bd" since this was in all the full bluray titles it seemed (this introduced a few results that were not blurays, but not many from what I checked). This search gave me 480 results, all "goodies" or freeleech.

[Polarbear]

How many full Blu-Rays are tracked?

I didn't see a Blu-ray category so I searched for "bd" since this was in all the full bluray titles it seemed (this introduced a few results that were not blurays, but not many from what I checked). This search gave me 480 results, all "goodies" or freeleech.

Thanks for looking. HDBits has 2737 Blu-Rays.

[Quarterquack]

Thanks for looking. HDBits has 2737 Blu-Rays.

HDChina probably has even more. Ye olde tongue-in-cheek Chinese factory workers joke falls right into place with their numbers.

[echohead]

bithq - 691 full bluray discs, 480(ish) if you dont count the ones that are dead.

hdbits - 2751 full bluray discs, 2335 if you dont go out of your way to be a dick and count the dead ones. take out the discs for tv series (something bithq doesnt index) and youre down to 2089.


lately the majority of blurays that show up on hdbits, where they are always half-leech, show up on bithq -- always freeleech. several quick test searches showed that for a given movie bithq usually had the better quality bluray available, while hdbits had multiple versions with inferior ones being kept alive as well. so if raw numbers are the only metric of quality, or the idea of freeleech bluray discs doesnt appeal to you, hdbits is probably better for bluray sources. but since i dont download a directors cut bluray, then the theatrical cut, then either the german version or an older/inferior transfer, bithq usually has what im looking for.

...so like i said, they should be just fine without you.




HDChina probably has even more.enjoy all those rushed bd25 transfers. ill wait the week or so it takes for one thats 15gb larger to show up elsewhere.

[t00z]

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays... i think they'll be just fine without you.
Why are you flaming, butthurt?

[anon]

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays... i think they'll be just fine without you.

in other news, they have the first cheater's info listed on the wall.

You don't happen to be a staff member on BitHQ, right?

[Funkin']

This thread has been entertaining.

[Quarterquack]

HDChina probably has even more.enjoy all those rushed bd25 transfers. ill wait the week or so it takes for one thats 15gb larger to show up elsewhere.

You're pretty convinced I'm an idiot, aren't you? Before you prove your adamance on proving me so, you should look closer into my posts, next time. ;)

[aen]

eDrama from nothing.

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays... i think they'll be just fine without you.

in other news, they have the first cheater's info listed on the wall.

+1 about that. It's realy nice place, I didn't see anything like that and I feel sorry that I didn't join it long time ago. Can't see the point of this ballyhoo. Cheaters are so cheaters, they are guys who brakes the FileSharing idea.
/me suggests to ban them from FST as well

-your me

[Asterix]

at last they are doing something in there

[P2PDog]

/me suggests to ban them from FST as well



Based on what evidence? All I see there is a nickname with an email and IP addresses. Where's the proof?

[anon]

Where's the proof?

Their level 50 scripts caught him cheating.

[P2PDog]

They claim those scrips are only to screen potential cheaters (since they're no where near reliable), and that they verify each one manually. I don't see any proof they've done that. It's as if they expect us to just take their word that the guy is a cheater.

[t00z]

eDrama from nothing.

bithq is probably the best private bittorrent site for grabbing full dvds and blurays... i think they'll be just fine without you.

in other news, they have the first cheater's info listed on the wall.Cheaters are so cheaters, they are guys who brakes the FileSharing idea.
The point here isn't that cheaters aren't cheaters, or that they shouldn't be banned (globally?). The issue is the public list of username/IPs/email.

[HongLeong]

they post public.. i feel like it something not nice to do :(
i see sendthatshit post it too. but only on forum. not like this

[Cabalo]

/me suggests to ban them from FST as well

-your me
:noes: We won't assume tracker staff doesn't make mistakes.

[pone44]

How many other trackers have a feature like this besides tophos?

[anon]

From the master himself:

LL might have a shitlist not sure though.
I know for a fact Wildbytes as well as Bitmetv do but theirs aren't public.

[pone44]

I would think most trackers have a shitlist for staff only.


From the master himself:

LL might have a shitlist not sure though.
I know for a fact Wildbytes as well as Bitmetv do but theirs aren't public.

[aen]

/me suggests to ban them from FST as well



Based on what evidence? All I see there is a nickname with an email and IP addresses. Where's the proof?

Well yeah, I remember that old waffles story with an abstract anti-cheating system where you should believe that it works perfect...

[Quarterquack]

I would think most trackers have a shitlist for staff only.

A few sources come with in-built dupe checks etc. Most of the time it's as comfortable as checking IP matches across different accounts.

[anon]

I would think most trackers have a shitlist for staff only.

But doesn't that turn it into a simple ban list..? :happy:

[Quarterquack]

I hate when the editor buttons stop working and I have to type BBcode manually. Sometimes I make mistakes

The solution is to always type them in manually and not to be a lazy bum. :happy:

I'm just fooling.

[anon]

The solution is to always type them in manually and not to be a lazy bum. :happy:

When dealing with quotes, the temptation to highlight all of them and press http://filesharingtalk.com/images/editor/quote.png is just too big.

[OlegL]

That guy is from Thailand, the country that is banned from the what.cd interview channel.

[pone44]

Shitlist, banlist, all the same. I was browsing through some forums(bt related) and they publicly (no registration)list scam/trader IP's. Some IP's,email,nicknames are listed for pissing the mods off or being rude on the forum. That seems harsh. Was TI.something I forget.



I would think most trackers have a shitlist for staff only.

But doesn't that turn it into a simple ban list..? :happy:

[Relanium]

The second one is from Greece..

[Cabalo]

Some IP's,email,nicknames are listed for pissing the mods off or being rude on the forum. That seems harsh. Was TI.something I forget.
Can you imagine the size that list would have at FST? :lol:

[pone44]

I can't imagine. Like
Jdye: 200 different IP's and nicknames along with other dupes plus all the scammers,traders, others. Would be a massive list. Especially for pissing off mods :p



Some IP's,email,nicknames are listed for pissing the mods off or being rude on the forum. That seems harsh. Was TI.something I forget.
Can you imagine the size that list would have at FST? :lol:

[OlegL]

The second one is from Greece..

I am curious how many Americans will be on that list.

[Hombre]

my bet goes for romania, israel and egypt. in 6 months list will be full of them, i bet.

[OlegL]

I think I already see some Americans on that wall of shame. But one person on the wall has different ips that belong to different countries: the U.S. and Germany. Does it mean he uses the proxy of the country in which he doesn't live?

[anon]

But one person on the wall has different ips that belong to different countries: the U.S. and Germany. Does it mean he uses the proxy of the country in which he doesn't live?

I know the guy. He uses an US proxy sometimes. :P

[Radon0r]

The guys on the list that have tons of IPs have dynamic connections or something else?