Cross Seeding

[tommyboy]

Is cross seeding allowed on most trackers, or can it get you banned.

I have never done it, i just read about it and am curious:)

Thanks

[BABBY]

i think very few trackers dont allow cross seeding, generally other allow cross seeding

[ca_aok]

Generally unless they have some very odd exclusivity rules (don't cross seed at the lossless music trackers for instance) you'll be fine.

[freak12345]

nice bit of info guys, i was also wondering about this before...
though i think it would make sense for most of the trackers to allow this since there's not much difference between using this approach and downloading & seeding "free leech" torrents...

[IdolEyes787]

nice bit of info guys, i was also wondering about this before...
though i think it would make sense for most of the trackers to allow this since there's not much difference between using this approach and downloading & seeding "free leech" torrents...

The difference is that with "free leech" you are still initially contributing something to other members upload while with cross seeding you are basically benefiting at the expense of others .Look on some trackers and see dozens of seeders with nothing downloaded.:dabs:
You know I find it strange that people harp on ratio cheating but in terms of benefiting people other than oneself I see very little difference between the two.
The only time I see cross seeding as a positive thing is when the original uploaders speed is glacial and seriously on the sites that we are referring to here as being problematic how often does that happen ?Like maybe never.

Also there has been a lot of recent posts about "don't dare to join a site if you don't have the connection speed and aren't willing to pay for a seedbox to maintain ratio " which is pretty hypocritical since the cross seeders are in effect not really using the site either .
Personally if I staffed one of these trackers I'd much rather have a bunch of members with less than sterling ratios that attempt to "play by the rules" than a bunch of wanks getting most of their files from some other site and only pretending to use mine.
Way to steer the noobs in the right direction guys.:dabs:

[anon]

Is cross seeding allowed on most trackers, or can it get you banned.

SceneFZ is the only one I've tried to (unsuccessfully) cross-seed at, receiving a message along the lines of:

Seeding a torrent you've downloaded elsewhere is FORBIDDEN!

But most of the time, it's allowed. If unsure, check the site's rules/FAQ or PM a FLS or staff member. Also make sure you have your hands on the same exact release you're about to jump on.

[Mokhtar]

its always against tracker rules. dont listen people try to make fun of you and trick you. cross seeding is bed for trackers. everybody know it is.

[anon]

its always against tracker rules. ... cross seeding is bed for trackers.

Ignoring the typo and subjectivity on the statement "cross seeding is bed for trackers", you know it isn't always literally against trackers' rules, do you?

[Mokhtar]

why is good for trackers? users not so involved with tracker and steal things.

[anon]

why is good for trackers?

I didn't say it was good for trackers, just that it isn't always against their rules as you stated.

[Radon0r]

its always against tracker rules. dont listen people try to make fun of you and trick you. cross seeding is bed for trackers. everybody know it is.

What the hell are you talking about? It's never against tracker rules unless it involves exclusive (i.e., non-scene) content. And I fail to see how it affects trackers one way or the other. I see it as benefiting users, the cross-seeding user and the leechers he shares with.

[Tokeman]

Its bad because it makes it hard for everyone downloading the item to reach a 1/1 ratio with a bunch of people seeding who never grabbed it from that tracker.

[stoi]

on BCG i dont see anything wrong with it, and we nullify that 1/1 problem anyway.

[Skiz]

why is good for trackers? users not so involved with tracker and steal things.

Anything that creates more seeders seems like a positive to me. :unsure:

[nicklieback]

why is good for trackers? users not so involved with tracker and steal things.

Anything that creates more seeders seems like a positive to me. :unsure:

It depends on the tracker. In some trackers(new ones mainly), everything is seeded, but everyone is scared to download anything, as they know it's pretty much impossible to seed to 1:1. Cross-seeding just exacerbates that issue for the tracker. But on trackers like TL, IPT, RevTT etc, go ahead, it doesn't do any harm.

[elbuitre]

Cross seeding should only be done properly, if you have a torrent from different trackers with the same hash, you should not seed that at both sites; That may trigger the cheat script and land you in a shame list or whatever.

[anon]

if you have a torrent from different trackers with the same hash, you should not seed that at both sites; That may trigger the cheat script and land you in a shame list or whatever.

Not if you add it as a separate entry in your client. Usually, the script triggering you mention is caused by people putting multiple tracker URLs from different trackers on a single torrent.

[elbuitre]

But if they have the same hash uTorrent automatically asks to add them together, if you say no, the torrent does not add to uTorrent. How do i add a separate entry for a torrent with the same hash file but different tracker?

[anon]

Oh, I see what you mean. The only workaround is running a separate uTorrent instance, then.

[bumrocks]

its always against tracker rules. dont listen people try to make fun of you and trick you. cross seeding is bed for trackers. everybody know it is.

As mentioned before, that is a very untrue statement. BitMeTV has tuts on how to do this, for example. Cross-seeding is something I actually recommend to people when they first start on a site to help build a buffer. Too many times people (including myself in the past) jump gun-ho on a site and ruin their account in minutes or hours.

I'm with skiz on this one. I'd rather have more seeders and better speeds.

[Rilly]

I think you guys should be clear what you mean by cross seeding..
Like stated - if the torrents have the same hash, and you are just adding the tracker of site B to the existing torrent from site A, you will get banned on both sites.. because what you are seeding to peers on site A for example, will get announced to the tracker on both Site A and B and vice versa. You put yourself in a position where you could be getting upload credit when there aren't even peers on one of the sites.
If you have separate hash for each torrent though, then that is alright and should be nothing to do with the site (none of their business what you are seeding elsewhere unless you are sharing something that is exclusive).

[bumrocks]

To properly cross-seed it is as simple as actually downloading the ".torrent" file from each site. As long as you do this you will have different hashes even though you are seeding the same files.

I am pretty damn certain of this. Am I wrong?

[Rilly]

Sometimes when the hash is the same, it won't add the new torrent, it will add the tracker URL to the list of trackers.. I believe this is because the application is a single port using app (like utorrent) and you can't have two torrents with the same hash in your list.. the client wouldn't know where to send the peer to.. so it merges them.

[bumrocks]

Sometimes when the hash is the same, it won't add the new torrent, it will add the tracker URL to the list of trackers...

But uTorrent will ask you want to add the URL to the torrent/tracker list. If it does then you will always say no. If you actually download a separate torrent file from the second tracker you should never get this message though. Pretty sure about this.

[elbuitre]

If the files are the same and the torrent file is created with the same piece size (people often use the auto-piece size on uTorrent) then you have two torrents with the same hash info but with different trackers. If you add a second of those and you choose not to add the tracker to the tracker list then the uTorrent ignores it; The only workaround to seed this files at two trackers, as anon said, is to run another instance of uTorrent.

[Rilly]

Right - like elbuitre said, if you say no, it ignores it.. ie.. doesn't add the torrent - it doesn't add it as a new separate torrent.. so saying no means you wouldn't be seeding it.

I run rtorrent and utorrent simultaneously for this reason.. so I can seed multiple places at once.

[bumrocks]

I am aware of the that uTorrent ignores it. Which was point why you would say no so that you didn't have the hash problem.

I have the piece size as "auto-detect" on uTorrent. I upload on multiple sites and as long as I create separate torrent files I have never had an issue.

[kurdt]

on utorrent 1.8.5 it worked exactly as bumrocks said, even if the 2 files are exactly the same, because the torrent files would be different. i have not tried it in utorrent 2.0.2 yet so don't know. could that be why you guys are having the issue? i hope they haven't changed it.

on a side note, i think its funny that the problem with public trackers was not enough leechers and so they created private trackers and now the problem is not enough leechers. That is a different problem than too many seeders, however, and so i don't think that cross-seeding hurts the tracker as a whole (because it benefits the leechers and promotes leeching).

it might hurt the person who downloads and just expects to keep a 1:1 ratio quickly without any effort - such as cross-seeding or partial seeding or downloading popular torrents to build ratio, seeding for a LONG time, or buying a box. sorry, the world doesn't owe you a ratio.

[Rilly]

bumrocks - Are you saying , that you click NO to the question utorrent asks when the hash are matching, and it adds that new torrent to your client so that you can seed multiple torrents in ONE client, that have the exact same hash? this isn't possible in utorrent.. how would the peer be directed to the right torrent? Or.. are you saying, that you create multiple torrents for multiple sites.. add them to your client, and it doesn't tell you there is a matching hash.. thats a different scenario, which is possible

kurdt - we are not talking about same files.. we are talking about same hash

[bumrocks]

Or.. are you saying, that you create multiple torrents for multiple sites.. add them to your client, and it doesn't tell you there is a matching hash.. thats a different scenario, which is possible

Correct.

And I will go back to a previous statement...

If you properly download a separate torrent file from each site you will not have any issues of improper reporting of stats. And therefore should not have one issue with cross-seeding or sending improper stats to the wrong site (I think I am repeating myself).

I use µTorrent 1.8.5, btw.

My newest confusion is why you have to use different clients to seed at different places. I have never had an issue and am a member of probably too many sites.

[freak12345]

nice bit of info guys, i was also wondering about this before...
though i think it would make sense for most of the trackers to allow this since there's not much difference between using this approach and downloading & seeding "free leech" torrents...

The difference is that with "free leech" you are still initially contributing something to other members upload while with cross seeding you are basically benefiting at the expense of others .Look on some trackers and see dozens of seeders with nothing downloaded.:dabs:
You know I find it strange that people harp on ratio cheating but in terms of benefiting people other than oneself I see very little difference between the two.
The only time I see cross seeding as a positive thing is when the original uploaders speed is glacial and seriously on the sites that we are referring to here as being problematic how often does that happen ?Like maybe never.

Also there has been a lot of recent posts about "don't dare to join a site if you don't have the connection speed and aren't willing to pay for a seedbox to maintain ratio " which is pretty hypocritical since the cross seeders are in effect not really using the site either .
Personally if I staffed one of these trackers I'd much rather have a bunch of members with less than sterling ratios that attempt to "play by the rules" than a bunch of wanks getting most of their files from some other site and only pretending to use mine.
Way to steer the noobs in the right direction guys.:dabs:

But the usual case with file(s) that can be cross-seeded is that the individual who uploaded that file(s) in the private tracker where he is a member of is usually not the person or is not part of the group who created the release (in most cases, like in the case of TV series episodes, the release is actually available in most public trackers) so there's not much difference between that uploader and the people who cross-seed that torrent. For all we know, the uploader's intention in making this file available in the private tracker where he is a member of is only to spread the release and make it convenient for other members to obtain the files without looking for other sources.

There is even one private tracker that I joined who level the playing field by making the torrents "free leech" once they determine that the release was available elsewhere and I applaud this approach since they encourage others to "spread" what their members already have but at the same time give a chance to leechers to download the file without taking a hit at their ratio.

So unless there's an exclusivity agreement between the group/person who uploaded the file(s) and the private tracker where the file(s) was originally uploaded, I don't see any harm being done for a tracker when a person tries to cross-seed the file that he got from another site. In contrast, it would even help make the file become more available to leechers of that tracker since more people will be helping out in the uploading of that file.

Come to think of it, isn't this what file-sharing is all about?

[Disme]

If you properly download a separate torrent file from each site you will not have any issues of improper reporting of stats. And therefore should not have one issue with cross-seeding or sending improper stats to the wrong site (I think I am repeating myself).

I use µTorrent 1.8.5, btw.



You're absolutely right bumzy ... download a .torrent from tracker X, put it into UT and download it. Download the same .torrent from tracker Y and add it to UT. Do a forced check and when done, start seeding on tracker Y. That's all ... no bans, no troubles at all. Just did it 2 days ago.

I use UT 2.0.2.0 btw


My newest confusion is why you have to use different clients to seed at different places. I have never had an issue and am a member of probably too many sites.

No need for confusion bumzy ... you don't need to use different clients on different trackers.

[tommyboy]

Wow Guys i see a lot of people have different opinions on this:)

Thanks for all the info

This is a quote from the guide that i found while originally researching cross seeding and the reason i asked.


Lets say you have downloaded the torrent from Tracker 1 to C:\downloads

lets say the same torrent is there at tracker 2. download the the other torrent file. rename it and add it to utorrent as a seperate torrent. do not add the trackers from the second to the first torrent.

then when your adding the second torrent just change the directory to c:\downloads and then do a force re-check for the files. once all the files are accounted for in the second tracker then start seeding.

[Disme]

Saw that guide too a while ago :)

All I can say is that the two .torrent-files I got from the 2 different trackers did not have the same name, but the content of the file I downloaded was identical.
UT didn't ask me anything, just made it another torrent right away.

Have checked the 2 trackers since and there's no improper seeding on any of both trackers so I guess it works like it's supposed to be.

[IdolEyes787]

The difference is that with "free leech" you are still initially contributing something to other members upload while with cross seeding you are basically benefiting at the expense of others .Look on some trackers and see dozens of seeders with nothing downloaded.:dabs:
You know I find it strange that people harp on ratio cheating but in terms of benefiting people other than oneself I see very little difference between the two.
The only time I see cross seeding as a positive thing is when the original uploaders speed is glacial and seriously on the sites that we are referring to here as being problematic how often does that happen ?Like maybe never.

Also there has been a lot of recent posts about "don't dare to join a site if you don't have the connection speed and aren't willing to pay for a seedbox to maintain ratio " which is pretty hypocritical since the cross seeders are in effect not really using the site either .
Personally if I staffed one of these trackers I'd much rather have a bunch of members with less than sterling ratios that attempt to "play by the rules" than a bunch of wanks getting most of their files from some other site and only pretending to use mine.
Way to steer the noobs in the right direction guys.:dabs:

But the usual case with file(s) that can be cross-seeded is that the individual who uploaded that file(s) in the private tracker where he is a member of is usually not the person or is not part of the group who created the release (in most cases, like in the case of TV series episodes, the release is actually available in most public trackers) so there's not much difference between that uploader and the people who cross-seed that torrent. For all we know, the uploader's intention in making this file available in the private tracker where he is a member of is only to spread the release and make it convenient for other members to obtain the files without looking for other sources.

There is even one private tracker that I joined who level the playing field by making the torrents "free leech" once they determine that the release was available elsewhere and I applaud this approach since they encourage others to "spread" what their members already have but at the same time give a chance to leechers to download the file without taking a hit at their ratio.

So unless there's an exclusivity agreement between the group/person who uploaded the file(s) and the private tracker where the file(s) was originally uploaded, I don't see any harm being done for a tracker when a person tries to cross-seed the file that he got from another site. In contrast, it would even help make the file become more available to leechers of that tracker since more people will be helping out in the uploading of that file.

Come to think of it, isn't this what file-sharing is all about?

If it didn't ( potentially) adversely effect other people's ratios by doing it thus sure.

Once again I think the the point being overlooked by anyone championing cross seeding here is that people who do it are not downloading anything from the secondary site(s) and therefore not allowing other members to upload anything to them making ratio maintaining at these already presumably hard to maintain a ratio at places( otherwise why cross seed in the first place?) even more difficult.:mellow:

And please don't give me the lame excuse that is is done to "help out with the speed" because as stated the places where people most likely feel the need to cross seed are the very places with the best speeds anyway( ie lots of seedboxes) which is basically probably why some people feel the need to cross seed in the first place.:unsure:

And no file sharing is about strangely ...you know sharing whereas what is suggested here is pretty much a one way street called "doing what is the best thing for you with little concern about anyone else" .
Why is it so difficult for anyone to admit that?

Btw I knows I'm a self righteous prig but I've seriously lost respect for some people here that support this practice.

[Rilly]

You're absolutely right bumzy ... download a .torrent from tracker X, put it into UT and download it. Download the same .torrent from tracker Y and add it to UT. Do a forced check and when done, start seeding on tracker Y. That's all ... no bans, no troubles at all. Just did it 2 days ago.

I use UT 2.0.2.0 btw


My newest confusion is why you have to use different clients to seed at different places. I have never had an issue and am a member of probably too many sites.

No need for confusion bumzy ... you don't need to use different clients on different trackers.

It just means that you have not come across any that have identical hash (and you can check the hash under the general tab).

If you don't believe me, create two torrents with the same files, one right after another with different trackers and don't change anything in the file structure, then try to add both to your client. The generation of the Hash are case sensitive. All it takes is one torrent site to have a letter with a capital in it, and another without a capital and you have a different hash. I've been admins on several trackers, and when people merge tracker URLs they always think they are cross seeding and not doing anything, because "someone told them there is nothing wrong with cross-seeding." Users need to understand what is right, and what is wrong. Just because its a second torrent from a different site does not mean that it will always work 100% of the time as a second torrent.

[Hombre]

i cross seed all the time, sometime even to 10 trackers at same time. GB box FTW !

[P2PDog]

i cross seed all the time, sometime even to 10 trackers at same time. GB box FTW !

Why? Surely with a Gbit box you don't need the ratio. Do the enormous upload stats make your epeen feel bigger?

[freak12345]

If it didn't ( potentially) adversely effect other people's ratios by doing it thus sure.

Once again I think the the point being overlooked by anyone championing cross seeding here is that people who do it are not downloading anything from the secondary site(s) and therefore not allowing other members to upload anything to them making ratio maintaining at these already presumably hard to maintain a ratio at places( otherwise why cross seed in the first place?) even more difficult.:mellow:

And please don't give me the lame excuse that is is done to "help out with the speed" because as stated the places where people most likely feel the need to cross seed are the very places with the best speeds anyway( ie lots of seedboxes) which is basically probably why some people feel the need to cross seed in the first place.:unsure:

And no file sharing is about strangely ...you know sharing whereas what is suggested here is pretty much a one way street called "doing what is the best thing for you with little concern about anyone else" .
Why is it so difficult for anyone to admit that?

Btw I knows I'm a self righteous prig but I've seriously lost respect for some people here that support this practice.

I'm not sure how you feel about this but the same can also be applied for people using seedboxes.
3-4 years ago, it wouldn't be very difficult for any home internet user with a decent ISP connection to seed back the files that they've downloaded from private trackers but with cheap seedbox resellers now popping up left and right, home internet users who are members of private trackers are also put at a disadvantage in terms of seeding back stuff that they've downloaded.

I for one have been hit with this disadvantage when I renewed my interest in joining private trackers just a few weeks ago (the last time that I've been this active was around 3-4 years ago). But instead of bitching out that my speed can't compete with people who have seedboxes, I myself decided to level the playing field by also getting a decent seedbox for myself. Of course, I still make sure that I give my share back to the tracker that I'm joining by seeding files for as long as I can (in fact, I still have torrents that I continue to seed on my local machine even after I have removed them from my seedbox). So just like people using seedboxes, I would say that cross-seeding is just one other way of allowing other users especially those who depend on their ISP's bandwidth to at least level the playing field as long as it is not against the rules of the tracker that you a member of.

Anyway, as with any other gray-area discussions in file-sharing, there will always be 2 sides of the story in it but I think the thing that matters here is that the OP have been informed about the different opinions that other members feel about this topic so it would be up to him to choose which approach he thinks would be right for him since basically, most trackers don't find anything wrong with this approach so he is not really breaking any rules.

And btw, I don't see you as a prig dude. When I'm not posting, I usually lurk around other threads in this forum and most of the interesting discussions that I find usually involves you and other big-timers here in FST.

[pone44]

What trackers do not allow cross seeding, if any(besides internal encodes and packs)?

[freak12345]

What trackers do not allow cross seeding, if any(besides internal encodes and packs)?

I don't know of any where I'm a member of but anon-sbi mentioned SceneFZ as one example (http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/421267-Cross-Seeding?p=3490122&viewfull=1#post3490122)...

[freak12345]

sorry duplicate post and i can't find any delete button...

[bumrocks]

It just means that you have not come across any that have identical hash (and you can check the hash under the general tab).

If you don't believe me, create two torrents with the same files, one right after another with different trackers and don't change anything in the file structure, then try to add both to your client. The generation of the Hash are case sensitive. All it takes is one torrent site to have a letter with a capital in it, and another without a capital and you have a different hash. I've been admins on several trackers, and when people merge tracker URLs they always think they are cross seeding and not doing anything, because "someone told them there is nothing wrong with cross-seeding." Users need to understand what is right, and what is wrong. Just because its a second torrent from a different site does not mean that it will always work 100% of the time as a second torrent.

There are two sites that I regularly upload to. I never change the files or the file names in any manner. One of them has 4-5 times more traffic on average if not more. Which means that I would stand out like a sore thumb to the site with lesser traffic. And it is a very veteran group of staff members that have been doing this for quite awhile. I am sure they would have said something and/or noticed. I am not believing what you are saying or I am misunderstanding. Or I am simply wrong.

[Rilly]

There are two sites that I regularly upload to. I never change the files or the file names in any manner. One of them has 4-5 times more traffic on average if not more. Which means that I would stand out like a sore thumb to the site with lesser traffic. And it is a very veteran group of staff members that have been doing this for quite awhile. I am sure they would have said something and/or noticed. I am not believing what you are saying or I am misunderstanding. Or I am simply wrong.

Maybe this will help explain it better... http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=33813

Note the answer from the utorrent admin -

[Rilly]

There are two sites that I regularly upload to. I never change the files or the file names in any manner. One of them has 4-5 times more traffic on average if not more. Which means that I would stand out like a sore thumb to the site with lesser traffic. And it is a very veteran group of staff members that have been doing this for quite awhile. I am sure they would have said something and/or noticed. I am not believing what you are saying or I am misunderstanding. Or I am simply wrong.

Maybe this will help explain it better... http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=33813

Note the answer from the utorrent admin -