Vegan Or Vegetarian?

[leonidas]

I don't know what to do.

EDIT: Please just participate to this topic if you have already seriously though about the issue.

[Octopussy]

lamesy owns

[j2k4]

Originally posted by leonidas@4 November 2003 - 14:32
I don't know what to do.
Think about it over a nice, juicy burger. ;)

[DasScoot]

Vegetarians taste better.

[*´¯`·.¸¸.»Çô©ö»]

Sorry i need blood http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/food-eatingaburger.gif

[Octopussy]

wtf vegetarians taste better? eating humans? errr.... i think vegetarians are stupid i mean the cow is gona die anyway why not just kill it and eat it


edit:sorry all the vegetarians in this forum :lol: :rolleyes:

[Kunal]

vegerterians drink milk etc, vegans dont eat anything that has come from animals, two different things mate

Edit: DasScoot fking canibal

[leonidas]

Well, it sounds like none of you never ever really though about that issue <_<

Thinking sometimes is benefic. You should try <_<

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by leonidas@4 November 2003 - 18:50
Well, it sounds like none of you never ever really though about that issue&nbsp; <_<

Thinking sometimes is benefic. You should try <_<
judging by your avatar, you better keep to meat ;)

[Xanex]

Vege&#39;s and Vegans suffer a lot from Vitimin and mineral defficiencys and have to take supplements. Would you rather eat the real thing or shove pills made with chemicals down ur gullet just to stay healthy.

I personally dont see the problem with meat or animal products as long as the animal was killed humanly and the produce is all used rather than 90% thrown away like shark fin soup and the shark is left to die on its own etc etc

[TheDave]

weve evolved to eat animals. thats life, sorry guys

[leonidas]

Originally posted by nigel123+4 November 2003 - 19:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 @ 4 November 2003 - 19:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-leonidas@4 November 2003 - 18:50
Well, it sounds like none of you never ever really though about that issue <_<

Thinking sometimes is benefic. You should try <_<
judging by your avatar, you better keep to meat ;) [/b][/quote]
Yeh that&#39;s funny.



But damn, no one&#39;s can serious here? :angry:

[leonidas]

Originally posted by Xanex@4 November 2003 - 19:57
Vege&#39;s and Vegans suffer a lot from Vitimin and mineral defficiencys and have to take supplements. Would you rather eat the real thing or shove pills made with chemicals down ur gullet just to stay healthy.

I personally dont see the problem with meat or animal products as long as the animal was killed humanly and the produce is all used rather than 90% thrown away like shark fin soup and the shark is left to die on its own etc etc
What would you day if I wana kill you humanly?
I mean animals can be dum or whatever but they may apreciate their lives just like us.

[chalice]

I was a vegetarian for 8 years until six months ago.
The only thing I learned was I wasted 8 years eating rice and peas when I could have had steak every day. Doh.

[Xanex]

ok good point my spelling sux0rs. when i say humainly i mean that its quick and painless and they are not left to suffer a slow painfull death.

tranq dart and then head chopped off i would consider humain, the animal just "fell asleep and died" didnt know what hit it, fair and simple


they may apprieciate their lives just like us but no one tells a shark or an aligator not to kill a human cos they have feelings too kinda thing, they just kill to survive and since we out number many of the species here i think its reasonable to be able to survive as well as long as its all nice and legal and soft n fluffy like with regards to animals and our eating of them

spelling is 4 sux0rs

[HeavyMetalParkingLot]

Originally posted by Kunal@4 November 2003 - 18:42
vegerterians drink milk etc, vegans dont eat anything that has come from animals, two different things mate

Edit: DasScoot fking canibal
vegans also refuse to wear, own, or whatever, that contains anything from an animal, such as, leather soled shoes, or a handbag.

[leonidas]

Originally posted by chalice@4 November 2003 - 20:01
I was a vegetarian for 8 years until six months ago.
The only thing I learned was I wasted 8 years eating rice and peas when I could have had steak every day. Doh.
I&#39;m vegetarian for 2 years and some months now and it was no problems at all.

Now I eat veegan since 1 month as I &#39;m not sure wich of the 2 diet I&#39;m gonna choose.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by leonidas+4 November 2003 - 18:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leonidas @ 4 November 2003 - 18:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by nigel123@4 November 2003 - 19:54
<!--QuoteBegin-leonidas@4 November 2003 - 18:50
Well, it sounds like none of you never ever really though about that issue <_<

Thinking sometimes is benefic. You should try <_<
judging by your avatar, you better keep to meat ;)
Yeh that&#39;s funny.



But damn, no one&#39;s can serious here? :angry: [/b][/quote]
Well we can be serious, but it&#39;s not much fun... and this is the lounge. If you wish for a serious discussion carry on ...

[leonidas]

Originally posted by nigel123+4 November 2003 - 20:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 4 November 2003 - 20:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by leonidas@4 November 2003 - 18:58

Originally posted by nigel123@4 November 2003 - 19:54
<!--QuoteBegin-leonidas@4 November 2003 - 18:50
Well, it sounds like none of you never ever really though about that issue <_<

Thinking sometimes is benefic. You should try <_<
judging by your avatar, you better keep to meat ;)
Yeh that&#39;s funny.



But damn, no one&#39;s can serious here? :angry:
Well we can be serious, but it&#39;s not much fun... and this is the lounge. If you wish for a serious discussion carry on ... [/b][/quote]
Ok. so I declare jokes allowed <_<

[chalice]

Veganism is difficult. You spend your life walking on eggshells (so to speak).
Vegetarianism is easy but its also a form of self-denial.
I just reached a point where I thought, life&#39;s too short, gimme that cheeseburger.
I&#39;ll take my chances as far as karma is concerned.

[thewizeard]

What would happen to all the cows if we stopped milking them?

[j2k4]

Originally posted by nigel123@4 November 2003 - 15:12
What would happen to all the cows if we stopped milking them?
Bovine studies have shown cogitation without lactation to be impossible. :huh:

They can&#39;t even think unless you milk them&#33; ;)

[leonidas]

Originally posted by chalice@4 November 2003 - 20:10
Veganism is difficult. You spend your life walking on eggshells (so to speak).
Vegetarianism is easy but its also a form of self-denial.
I just reached a point where I thought, life&#39;s too short, gimme that cheeseburger.
I&#39;ll take my chances as far as karma is concerned.
Yeh but I don&#39;t want to think only about myself & my health I want to wage my live in a moral way. That&#39;s important for me. It has furthermore nothing to do with karma.

[thewizeard]

Ok, who is going to care for all the animals, where are they all going to live? The problems are possibly greater than you realise.

[chalice]

Originally posted by leonidas+4 November 2003 - 19:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leonidas @ 4 November 2003 - 19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-chalice@4 November 2003 - 20:10
Veganism is difficult. You spend your life walking on eggshells (so to speak).
Vegetarianism is easy but its also a form of self-denial.
I just reached a point where I thought, life&#39;s too short, gimme that cheeseburger.
I&#39;ll take my chances as far as karma is concerned.
Yeh but I don&#39;t want to think only about myself & my health I want to wage my live in a moral way. That&#39;s important for me. It has furthermore nothing to do with karma. [/b][/quote]
Morally, there is no question. Why ask it?
If you want a pat on the back, then well done but if your morals are as firmly fixed as you say they are then there can be no other option than veganism.

J2 and Nigel, Heaven forfend those cows should suckle their young.

[leonidas]

Originally posted by j2k4+4 November 2003 - 20:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 &#064; 4 November 2003 - 20:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@4 November 2003 - 15:12
What would happen to all the cows if we stopped milking them?
Bovine studies have shown cogitation without lactation to be impossible. :huh:

They can&#39;t even think unless you milk them&#33; ;) [/b][/quote]
I know It looks stupid for most people not even to drink milk.

But the point is that a cow is animal suposed to live about 20 years, but as their milk production slow down when they reach the age of 5 years, they are just killed in order to be eaten. In addition if you want a cow to give you milk, she must have a veal to provoque the milk production, and the argument of vegans is: the veal industry is prolific because of that.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by leonidas@4 November 2003 - 19:04

Now I eat veegan since 1 month as I &#39;m not sure wich of the 2 diet I&#39;m gonna choose.
veegan is not a diet it is a lifestyle that incorporates diets, as another post rightly pointed out veegans will not wear leather belts or purchase or use any animal produce.

I think one of the biggest problems with vegiterians is that most people assume this automatically disapproves of their culture of believes, I have changed my mind obout this over time and am now happy to accommodate vegiterians (i admit i have not always had a positive attituide towards them)

it was once pointed out to me, in one of those view changing experiences :blink: that the amount of meat required by an individula would be about a on centimeter cube a day, therefore it probably is a viable dietry choice

but to be honest, as diet that is based on beliefs i truly cann&#39;t understand why anyone would chose it, would it not be better to lobby unethical companys (i do like my meat as my waist line would indicate)

[thewizeard]

True, but cows are not what they used to be&#33; A calf would not be able to consume the milk of a let say a frisian cow. If such a cow was not milked, it would die.

[dragon_bane]

Vegetarianism mostly effects your eating style, but veeganism effects your social and finiancial status, example this one landlord at a mall doesn&#39;t rent out to stores that sells meat or leather and she refuses to kill ants that infests her complex so she is losing tenents.

I try to go Vegetarian but i forget the next day and accidently eat a hot pocket. I wont even try Veegan.

[Kenny1036]

None I&#39;d rather be fat and eat meat. You only live once. :D

[leonidas]

Originally posted by nigel123@4 November 2003 - 20:33
True, but cows are not what they used to be&#33; A calf would not be able to consume the milk of a let say a frisian cow. If such a cow was not milked, it would die.
Interresting. Are those kind/race of cows very widespreaded?

[leonidas]

veegan is not a diet it is a lifestyle that incorporates diets, as another post rightly pointed out veegans will not wear leather belts or purchase or use any animal produce.I know that thanks.


would it not be better to lobby unethical companysBoth aren&#39;t uncompatible

[TheDave]

Originally posted by leonidas+4 November 2003 - 20:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leonidas @ 4 November 2003 - 20:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@4 November 2003 - 20:33
True, but cows are not what they used to be&#33; A calf would not be able to consume the milk of a let say a frisian cow. If such a cow was not milked, it would die.
Interresting. Are those kind/race of cows very widespreaded? [/b][/quote]
theyve been bred that way for hundreds of years. y&#39;know those paintings of big square cows. they arent for art thats like a photo showing off he weve fucked cows about, i think they need us now

[LTJBukem]

I&#39;ve been vegetarian for 10 years, as has my brother, and my girlfriend has been for most of her life. We are all healthy and fit. I&#39;m surprised that there hasn&#39;t been anyone else posting in support of a vegan diet.

I once enjoyed reading an essay on the subject by the electronica artist, Moby. He is far, far more eloquent than me on the subject. I hope that everyone will take the time to read it, and if they choose to pass comment, do so as adults and not children.


Originally posted by Moby@ Play
"Oftentimes when I meet somone they ask why
I&#39;m a vegan(a vegan is someone who niether eats,
wears, or uses animal products). Before I list the
reasons why I&#39;ve chosen to be a vegan let me say that
I don&#39;t jusdge people who choose to eat meat. People
make different choices for different reasons, and it
is not my place to judge the choices that other people
make. Just being alive is inevitably going to cause
suffering. But anyway, here&#39;s why I&#39;m a vegan.

1)I love animals, and I believe that a vegan diet causes
less suffering than a diet centered around animal
products.

2) Animals are sentient creatures with there
own wills, and it seems wrong to force our will onto
another creature just becasue we are able.

3)A great deal of medical evidence points to the fact that a
diet centered around animal products is terrible for
you. Animal product based diets have been repeatedly
proven to cause and exacerbate cancer, heart disease,
obesity, impotence, diabetes,etc.

4)A vegan diet is materially more efficient than an
animal product based
diet. By that I mean that you can feed lot&#39;s more
people with grain directly than by feeding that grain
to a cow and then killing the cow. In a world where
people are starving it seems criminal to fatten up
cows with grain that could be keeping people alive.

5)The raising of farm animals is environmentally
disastrous. All of the waste from animal farming gets
washed into our water supply, poisoning our drinking
water and fouling our lakes, streams, and oceans.

6)Vegan food is nice to look at. Compare a plate with
grains and fruits and vegetables to a plate with pigs&#39;
intestines, chicken legs, and chopped up cows&#39;
muscles.

So that&#39;s pretty much why I&#39;m a vegan. If for
some reason you ever decide to become a vegetarian or
a vegan, please do so carefully. Most of our
conventional diets are so meat and animal product
based that when we give up meat we don&#39;t know what to
replace it with. Although a vegetarian or vegan diet
is a million times healthier than a carnivorous diet,
making the transition away from animals needs to be
done wisely. Most health food stores and bookstores
have good books that can help you make the transition
from an animal product based diet to a vegatarian or
vegan diet.

[Gemby!]

be a veggie - vegan is really hard to do :)

[TheDave]

be normal - stop lying to yourself

[DarthInsinuate]

vegetarian is better than vegan and normal is better than both

if you&#39;re vegan you can&#39;t have milk, which could lead to a calcium deficency and you&#39;ll end up like Samuel L Jackson in the movie unbreakable, maybe - also you can&#39;t have milkshakes, hmm, where&#39;s that favorite food thread?

[Lilmiss]

im a demi - vegetarian, only eat poultry.
have been for 12 years.

i turned when i was 14, and my mum told me i had to eat some form of meat so it was easier to cook for me. i would have turned full veggie when i moved out, but i dont feel as strongly about it as when i was a kid.
theres a food chain for a reason.

i did try eating meat a while ago, and was very ill.
miss bacon rolls and pepperami&#39;s. :(

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by leonidas@4 November 2003 - 20:13

veegan is not a diet it is a lifestyle that incorporates diets, as another post rightly pointed out veegans will not wear leather belts or purchase or use any animal produce.I know that thanks.

You see you started the post with the question i don&#39;t know what to do, now you&#39;ve went and pissed me off lol, i&#39;ll be rawer if you want???

When their are people starving in the world (and i&#39;ve seen it first hand) you are previlaged you have s choice on what you want to eat, most vegiterians make such a strong stand of what is on the scope of things a trivial matter, there is a life and death cycle and your life will inevitably cause death (though hopefully not to other humans), vegitarianism is to me a self indulgence, half assed stance on how placid one is and how immoral the death and ill treatment of animals is,

what i say is if your going to do to do it, do it right, i encountered a tribe one time that did not believe in killing anything, they wore masks over there faces incase they breathed in insects, and swept the path in front of them in case they should stand on and consequently kill anything, if you truly want to make a stand make it, no one, worth their salt, cares about half assed attempts like vegitarianism

After taking in the dietry requirement of vegitarians i am tempted to ask if they would return the favour and make a courtesy call before i attend their dinner for large rare 12 oz steak

___

whilst i hope this post is recieved in the tounge in cheek nature it is written on, i can&#39;t do anything about your misinterpretation


EDIT: spelling

[oldmancan]

Vegi is far easier than vegan, so far as time and energy required to maintain a good state of health. Neither diet requires "chemical" supplements or pills. Look into complimentary proteins, as in "Diet for a Small Planet".

I&#39;m a by chance vegi, was cooking for a job, got tired of dealing with meat. Stopped eating it for a couple months, without trying or thinking about it, then got involved with girl (now wife) who was vegi. Haven&#39;t had any meat for 20 years.

Managed to run five marathons in three years, no problems. Then I got the hernia.

Couple of "vegi facts" (don&#39;t know if their true, but vegi&#39;s are always repeating them):

16 pounds of grain required to produce 1 lb of beef.

In the USA, more water is consumed by raising cows than any other "crop" or by people.

[Octopussy]

my bio teacher is so hot maybe because shes vegetarian>?

[summerlinda]

Never mind

[UKMan]

IMHO:
You should eat whatever your heart or mind thinks is correct. If you have moral problems in eating anything, then dont eat it and dont try to make excuses for other people to accept you. Once you start eating so that others can accept it, then that is also morally wrong - just do what you think is right and dont worry what others think. ;)

Listen to others opinions if you like, but in the end its down to you bro ;)

I tried vegetarianism once for a period of about a year, i was convinced then that it was the correct thing to do, but that was because others around me thought the same. Not being co-erced by others anymore, i now eat what i believe is good for me and what i want (not allways the same thing of course).

I dont have any morals about eating meat, although i would prefer to do away with mass production and the waste that the meat and poultry industry causes - but thats another topic. If i could i would hunt my own food - but thats not possible anymore, unless i join some hunting club here in Sweden and start shooting Elks and deer.

Thats my input and i stick to it B)

Peace
UKMan

[Lamsey]

Although I&#39;m deliberately staying out of this discussion as it usually gets me annoyed, I would like to make a point here.



Originally posted by Common misconception
Vegetarians are unhealthy, due to mineral and vitamin deficiencies because they don&#39;t eat meat, and they have to take supplements

The above is utter and complete bullshit. (That&#39;s not a quote from anyone in this thread, by the way, it&#39;s a paraphrase of a common misconception.)

If you eat healthily (which you should do regardless of whether you eat meat or not), you will not experience difficulties with your health due to your diet.

I have never eaten meat, but I&#39;m one of the healthiest people I know. I rarely get sick at all, and have an extremely strong immune system (I didn&#39;t even need a BCG jag because I have natural immunity).
I don&#39;t take any vitamin supplements except in the spring, when I take one small Vitamin C tablet a day because it helps with hayfever, acoording to my mother. This has nothing to do with my diet - Vitamin C is present in all sorts of foods, especially citrus fruits.

So if you&#39;re sitting there thinking you can&#39;t possibly stop eating meat, think again. If you can afford internet access, you can afford to feed yourself properly. Therefore, you don&#39;t need to eat meat.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by Lamsey+4 November 2003 - 23:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey &#064; 4 November 2003 - 23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
<!--QuoteBegin-Common misconception
Vegetarians are unhealthy, due to mineral and vitamin deficiencies because they don&#39;t eat meat, and they have to take supplements

[/b][/quote]
No vitiam B 12 except in meat, though this proably shouldn&#39;t annoy vegiterians as it probably won&#39;t kill them, but their diet is lacking, at the same time most people who eat meant probably over do it too, it&#39;s, from a dietry point of view, a question of balance

inevitably does anyone who deosn&#39;t take vitiam supplement have what the medical industry tells us we should be eating??

Edit spelling

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by blackhatknight+4 November 2003 - 23:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (blackhatknight &#064; 4 November 2003 - 23:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Lamsey@4 November 2003 - 23:45
<!--QuoteBegin-Common misconception
Vegetarians are unhealthy, due to mineral and vitamin deficiencies because they don&#39;t eat meat, and they have to take supplements
No vitiam B 12 except in meant, though this proably shouldn&#39;t annoy vegiterians as it probably won&#39;t kill them, but their diet is lacking, at the same time most people who eat meant probably over do it too, it&#39;s, from a dietry point of view, a question of balance [/b][/quote]
Absolute rubbish.

Second result on Google: http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by blackhatknight+5 November 2003 - 00:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (blackhatknight @ 5 November 2003 - 00:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Lamsey@4 November 2003 - 23:45

<!--QuoteBegin-Common misconception
Vegetarians are unhealthy, due to mineral and vitamin deficiencies because they don&#39;t eat meat, and they have to take supplements


No vitiam B 12 except in meat, though this proably shouldn&#39;t annoy vegiterians as it probably won&#39;t kill them, but their diet is lacking, at the same time most people who eat meant probably over do it too, it&#39;s, from a dietry point of view, a question of balance

inevitably does anyone who deosn&#39;t take vitiam supplement have what the medical industry tells us we should be eating??

Edit spelling [/b][/quote]
Thats a fucking lie&#33;

Its in milk-products and in egg-productsas well&#33;

Shut the fuck up if you dont know what you are talking about&#33;

[blackhatknight]

Lamsey - I&#39;m not a nutristionist so i can only state what i&#39;ve read, consequently this does not mean your wrong

summerlinda, it obvious you do not have a crasp of civilised expression therefore i would not expect you to have a grasp of chemistry either, therefore i can only assume your viewpoints are based on the foolly of your evident lack of understanding

[UKMan]

found here (http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/supplements/vitb12.html#provide)

What foods provide vitamin B12?
Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal foods including fish, milk and milk products, eggs, meat, and poultry. Fortified breakfast cereals are an excellent source of vitamin B12 and a particularly valuable source for vegetarians.


Peace
UKMan

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by blackhatknight@5 November 2003 - 00:12
Lamsey - I&#39;m not a nutristionist so i can only state what i&#39;ve read, consequently this does not mean your wrong

summerlinda, it obvious you do not have a crasp of civilised expression therefore i would not expect you to have a grasp of chemistry either, therefore i can only assume your viewpoints are based on the foolly of your evident lack of understanding
She, like me, is fed up with people spouting utter and complete codswallop and then saying "oh, I&#39;m not a nutritionist you know" in their defence.

5 seconds on Google and you could have checked that fact before you posted it.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by Lamsey@5 November 2003 - 00:23

She, like me, is fed up with people spouting utter and complete codswallop and then saying "oh, I&#39;m not a nutritionist you know" in their defence.

5 seconds on Google and you could have checked that fact before you posted it.
i cannot say that my reaseach is net based, i also think you over looked the subjectivity of quantitive reaseach, and this is what i was attempting (but obviously failed to highlight in my commemt about not being a nutritionist), i however i can not help people that take on selective reading of comments,

"people judge a book from its cover and then read what they want between selected lines" - axl rose

i further expanded my point by arguing that be all (with the exemption of those that take tablets) suffer diffencies.

i&#39;m very sorry you feel this way lamsey, i do not feel it was an appropriate way for her to express herself, however i recall this is a disccusion forum which means everyone&#39;s input is added, the inevitable outcome is people make up their own minds, whilst reading your posts i am sure you do not disagree with this priniciple, but active and valued disscussion can only take place where openess and general level of common courtesy are observed.

The words "shut the fuck up" do in no way remind me of civilised conversation or are they any way related to the common courtesy one expects in conversation, if my offence to her comments is unfounded, albeit, i can&#39;t see how they are.



Isn&#39;t it a pity that in a disscussion about vegterianism (the treatment of animals), we lose our civilised expression to our fellow man?

[thewizeard]

Something totally different. If everyone stopped eating meat, have you ever considered what would happen to the millions of animals kept by farmers?

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by blackhatknight@5 November 2003 - 01:37
Isn&#39;t it a pity that in a disscussion about vegterianism (the treatment of animals), we lose our civilised expression to our fellow man?
Ahh never mind me, i always was better with animal then humans :lol:

I take back the shut the fuck up, as long as you got the point... Its all Spider Dudes fault hehe...

[Spider_dude]

we would have to shoot all the animals. and sorry blackhatknight, i should never have taught summerlinda english.

[thewizeard]

I prefer vitamin B3 anyway...

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by summerlinda+5 November 2003 - 00:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda @ 5 November 2003 - 00:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-blackhatknight@5 November 2003 - 01:37
Isn&#39;t it a pity that in a disscussion about vegterianism (the treatment of animals), we lose our civilised expression to our fellow man?
Ahh never mind me, i always was better with animal then humans :lol:

I take back the shut the fuck up, as long as you got the point... Its all Spider Dudes fault hehe... [/b][/quote]
Now what have I told you about discussing one thing in two places? :rolleyes:

[Evil Gemini]

Well since its already being killed and turned into burgers or whatever, if you eat it or not its not going to change the fact that its dead.

Why waste the food ?

Its not like you killed the cow your self to feel bad about it.

If you dont eat it some one else will.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by summerlinda+5 November 2003 - 00:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda @ 5 November 2003 - 00:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-blackhatknight@5 November 2003 - 01:37
Isn&#39;t it a pity that in a disscussion about vegterianism (the treatment of animals), we lose our civilised expression to our fellow man?
Ahh never mind me, i always was better with animal then humans :lol:

I take back the shut the fuck up, as long as you got the point... Its all Spider Dudes fault hehe... [/b][/quote]
I do not know what you mean by as long as you got the point, i respect your right to have your view points (which are probably unchanged), as i hope you respect my right to have mine (which are unchanged)

whilst i am not sure how to fully take you comment, i am pleased that you have shown yourself to be, as i suspected, a much more open and civilised person, i will not take any offence and hope you do the same

big hug (aww)

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by neattairoski@5 November 2003 - 02:06
Well since its already being killed and turned into burgers or whatever, if you eat it or not its not going to change the fact that its dead.

Why waste the food ?

Its not like you killed the cow your self to feel bad about it.

If you dont eat it some one else will.
That, in fact, is the best thing said in this discussion, give the man some flowers... ow wait, i&#39;ll do it myself&#33; Here you go: :flowers:

[Evil Gemini]

Thanks :)

LOL

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by summerlinda+5 November 2003 - 01:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda &#064; 5 November 2003 - 01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-neattairoski@5 November 2003 - 02:06
Well since its already being killed and turned into burgers or whatever, if you eat it or not its not going to change the fact that its dead.

Why waste the food ?

Its not like you killed the cow your self to feel bad about it.

If you dont eat it some one else will.
That, in fact, is the best thing said in this discussion, give the man some flowers... ow wait, i&#39;ll do it myself&#33; Here you go: :flowers: [/b][/quote]
The reason is, that by consuming meat, you are also responsible for the killing of that creature. If you don&#39;t eat meat then they are killed for others. That&#39;s all.

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by nigel123@5 November 2003 - 02:16

The reason is, that by consuming meat, you are also responsible for the killing of that creature. If you don&#39;t eat meat then they are killed for others. That&#39;s all.
Ahhh i know what you are at, you want flowers to eh? <_<

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by summerlinda+5 November 2003 - 01:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda @ 5 November 2003 - 01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@5 November 2003 - 02:16

The reason is, that by consuming meat, you are also responsible for the killing of that creature. If you don&#39;t eat meat then they are killed for others. That&#39;s all.
Ahhh i know what you are at, you want flowers to eh? <_< [/b][/quote]
Natuurlijk&#33; :lol:

[Evil Gemini]

Yeah but imagine all the meat that goes overdue because they didnt sell enough and then they just throw the meat away.

I would feel more bad about an animal dying for nothing.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by neattairoski@5 November 2003 - 01:32
Yeah but imagine all the meat that goes overdue because they didnt sell enough and then they just throw the meat away.

I would feel more bad about an animal dying for nothing.
It&#39;s really a question of demand and supply. No demand, then slowly but surely no killing.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by neattairoski@5 November 2003 - 01:32
Yeah but imagine all the meat that goes overdue because they didnt sell enough and then they just throw the meat away.

I would feel more bad about an animal dying for nothing.
is it worth noting that in europen we have the "mountains of food" great big warhouses full of the stuff as a result of C.A.P. , (which i feel should be removed), however it is used as charitable donations when it reaches the point of overkill, with there most recent donation being steak in gravy

[leonidas]

You see you started the post with the question i don&#39;t know what to do, now you&#39;ve went and pissed me off lol, i&#39;ll be rawer if you want???

When their are people starving in the world (and i&#39;ve seen it first hand) you are previlaged you have s choice on what you want to eat, most vegiterians make such a strong stand of what is on the scope of things a trivial matter, there is a life and death cycle and your life will inevitably cause death (though hopefully not to other humans), vegitarianism is to me a self indulgence, half assed stance on how placid one is and how immoral the death and ill treatment of animals is,

what i say is if your going to do to do it, do it right, i encountered a tribe one time that did not believe in killing anything, they wore masks over there faces incase they breathed in insects, and swept the path in front of them in case they should stand on and consequently kill anything, if you truly want to make a stand make it, no one, worth their salt, cares about half assed attempts like vegitarianism

After taking in the dietry requirement of vegitarians i am tempted to ask if they would return the favour and make a courtesy call before i attend their dinner for large rare 12 oz steak
I didn&#39;t mean to be rude.
My purpose is not to act the perfect way, but to do my best as long as I can have a pleasant life. That&#39;s why I don&#39;t care if I eat a insect :x , or if I crush one under my foot by inadvertency. I just think they are in another dimension. But damn&#33; animals we eat are just like us in so many ways. I&#39;ve heard a pig has a 30 minutes orgasm&#33;&#33; How can you kill such an animal. Horses & dogs are feeling good with us.
It was really and it&#39;s still not a problem for me to not eating meat. But now without cheese milk and eggs, I&#39;m quite starving. Here is my problem.

I should actually have asked this question at the beguinig of this thread: Do you think veegans are right saying that eating milk and other milky products contributes indirectly to the killing of cows and calves ?
I quote myself here so that people can now what I&#39;m talking about:

I know It looks stupid for most people not even to drink milk.

But the point is that a cow is animal suposed to live about 20 years, but as their milk production slow down when they reach the age of 5 years, they are just killed in order to be eaten. In addition if you want a cow to give you milk, she must have a veal to provoque the milk production, and the argument of vegans is: the veal industry is prolific because of that

[Pitbul]

when a calf is born on a ranch we feed it and nurture it, once it is healthy enough we take back what we have given it by it now feeding us. with a milking cow we feed it to be nice and healthy in return it gives us milk that feeds us and makes our bones stronger, its called the circle of life as cheesey as that sounds, as far as i know Jesus ate meat so do i, im 16 but when i was 14 and 15 i got my first job on a farm, feeding and taking care of cows, even the calfs i would help give shots and medication if they were ill, even help the birth process (which i learned you have to have a decent stomach to handle) so i guess i gains a mutual respect when ever i eat meat now, cause i&#39;d take care of them, in return they&#39;d feed me. i&#39;d even kill the Coyotes who would try and pick off the Calf&#39;s, i dont take for granted the meat i eat so i have no problem.

[UKMan]

Originally posted by Pitbul@5 November 2003 - 19:40
when a calf is born on a ranch we feed it and nurture it, once it is healthy enough we take back what we have given it by it now feeding us. with a milking cow we feed it to be nice and healthy in return it gives us milk that feeds us and makes our bones stronger, its called the circle of life as cheesey as that sounds, as far as i know Jesus ate meat so do i, im 16 but when i was 14 and 15 i got my first job on a farm, feeding and taking care of cows, even the calfs i would help give shots and medication if they were ill, even help the birth process (which i learned you have to have a decent stomach to handle) so i guess i gains a mutual respect when ever i eat meat now, cause i&#39;d take care of them, in return they&#39;d feed me. i&#39;d even kill the Coyotes who would try and pick off the Calf&#39;s, i dont take for granted the meat i eat so i have no problem.
Your points of view are very sound (IMHO) and what i suppose it boils down to is how you respect nature, how you respect animals and how you respect life. Dont take things for granted (as you so wisely said) and above all - give thanks to what we have.

Peace
UKMan

[Evil Gemini]

But now without cheese milk and eggs, I&#39;m quite starving. Here is my problem.

You should just stick to what you usually eat. You cant just stop eating eggs and drinking milk just like that, you will get sick.

You said it your self, you are starving.



Do you think vegans are right saying that eating milk and other milky products contributes indirectly to the killing of cows and calves ?

No i dont think that they are "right". It sounds like these people are giving out a message that if you eat meat you are a bad person.

You should stop listening to these ppl and listen to your stomach.

Trust me their is nothing wrong with eating eggs or drinking milk.

[leonidas]

Originally posted by neattairoski@5 November 2003 - 23:46

But now without cheese milk and eggs, I&#39;m quite starving. Here is my problem.

You should just stick to what you usually eat. You cant just stop eating eggs and drinking milk just like that, you will get sick.

You said it your self, you are starving.



Do you think vegans are right saying that eating milk and other milky products contributes indirectly to the killing of cows and calves ?

No i dont think that they are "right". It sounds like these people are giving out a message that if you eat meat you are a bad person.

You should stop listening to these ppl and listen to your stomach.

Trust me their is nothing wrong with eating eggs or drinking milk.
I&#39;m not really starving, but just frustrated not to eat milky products.


Trust me their is nothing wrong with eating eggs or drinking milk.

Yes there is if by your fault they killed the cow which gives you the milk and her veal.

[Evil Gemini]

Do you think vegans are right saying that eating milk and other milky products contributes indirectly to the killing of cows and calves ?



Yes there is if by your fault they killed the cow which gives you the milk and her veal.

If you Repeatedly ask your self that question, and you dont like the answer (Which you have answered) maybe becoming a vegan is not for you.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by Lamsey+5 November 2003 - 00:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey &#064; 5 November 2003 - 00:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-blackhatknight@5 November 2003 - 00:12
Lamsey - I&#39;m not a nutristionist so i can only state what i&#39;ve read, consequently this does not mean your wrong

summerlinda, it obvious you do not have a crasp of civilised expression therefore i would not expect you to have a grasp of chemistry either, therefore i can only assume your viewpoints are based on the foolly of your evident lack of understanding
She, like me, is fed up with people spouting utter and complete codswallop and then saying "oh, I&#39;m not a nutritionist you know" in their defence.

5 seconds on Google and you could have checked that fact before you posted it. [/b][/quote]
After all this time i&#39;m only back on line and bring this up, hey you better blieve it, I got cut off before I had time to come up with a reply and this is it. You obviously have all the the mental capacity of a snail, is everthing you learn from google, God help us all, is that how people are now educated without any acedemic ability to learn themselves they simply take it off internet sites, hey after midrad this week i&#39;m sitting myself over terrorism after your post i&#39;m shiting myself over the generation that will take over, get yourself an education.

Edit bit stirred up and back with a little more atitupde (like the spelling blow it out your ass)

[Lamsey]

That was quite some bump :blink:



... and, sorry but it has to be said....

It took you all that time to come up with that? ;)