Longhorn...

[KazaaBoy]

The hype in this forum about longhorn from Micro$oft is not a new Operating System as every one has herd or thougt. Here is the Article.


November 5, 2003
New Longhorn Graphics Tool Called "Flashkiller"
By Erin Joyce

Top developers at Microsoft (Quote, Chart) are working on a new graphics and animation toolset for Longhorn (the next generation of Windows) that could spell trouble for Macromedia's (Quote, Chart) popular Flash MX and Director MX animation tools, sources familiar with the situation told internetnews.com.

Code-named "Sparkle," the tools under development would be integrated with Microsoft's .NET (define) runtime environment. That would ultimately mean developers could have Flash- and Director-like animation and graphics tools ready-built for them soon after Longhorn hits the marketplace.

One source familiar with the project, who saw examples of the "Sparkle" toolset integrated with Microsoft's C# (define), said early prototypes have given rise to talk of its potential as a "Flashkiller" or even a "Director-killer," referring to Macromedia's popular Flash animation software and Director tool, which is best known for building small animations for CDs.

A spokesperson for Macromedia said the company does not comment on speculation or rumors about products not yet in release.

As for how the "Sparkle" project could pan out, a source familiar with the situation said much depends on the Longhorn build, which continues to morph even after the public airing of its pre-beta build (build 4051 of Longhorn) during Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles last week.

The news of yet another code-named project for Longhorn follows a flood of information about Microsoft's future product builds that rained down on the five-day PDC. Attendees got their hands on pre-beta versions of SQL Server ("Yukon"), Visual Studio .NET tools ("Whidbey") and a host of new graphics and animation rendering features in the Longhorn operating system.

Although demonstrations of Longhorn's capabilities at the conference did not include "Sparkle," a closer look at Longhorn's capabilities provides clues that Microsoft's vision for computing is based on providing tools for increasingly rich media and 3D vector graphics (define) capabilities in computers and computing devices.

With graphics processors apparently following the same principles of Moore's Law and roughly doubling their data density every 18 months, as prices for computers continue to fall, many in the technology industry think the industry could be at another inflection point similar to the arrival of the browser in 1995. Only this time, advances in computing will be with animation, 3D and other rich media.

A lot of the goals Microsoft is aiming at with "Sparkle" are the same as those Flash is looking to accomplish, one source said. But the tool goes beyond Flash in delivering a .NET application that has access to all the APIs (define) in Longhorn, and effectively takes animation beyond the browser to enable, say, three videos running at the same time as other graphics and animation.

Whether "Sparkle" would ship after Longhorn ships, which is now widely believed to be in 2006, is still an open question.

The news comes as the company continues its hiring spree of talent from all sectors of the technology industry, including former staff from Adobe, and as it doubles its R&D budget for its 2004 fiscal year to about $7 billion.

Still, for all the razzle-dazzle response that "Sparkle" has inspired by those that have seen it in action, the tool could also end up in Visual Studio or be given away with the operating system, one source said. It's too soon to tell.

And it's not the first time Microsoft, or Adobe for that matter, have tried to take on Macromedia's Flash, which is installed as a downloadable plug-in on roughly 95 percent of desktops that are Internet-enabled, said Scott Hamlin, a director of content for http://www.flashcomponents.com. (Jupitermedia, the parent company of this publication, licenses Hamlin's content in Flashcomponents.com, which is part of its ArtToday.com division.)

"Flash is one of the best technologies I know of that compresses vector imagery. It's mass compression, if you will. And Macromedia's innovation is in compressing that," he told internetnews.com.

Hamlin, who has also written several books about the software, such as "The Hidden Power of Flash Components," pointed to a prior build of a 3D graphics prototype for developers, which Microsoft at the time code-named "Chrome" in the late 1990s, that was thought of as a "Flashkiller" at the time. It wasn't.

But he also conceded that as a developer tool, Flash can leave some developers pulling their hair out and noted that recent product upgrades from Macromedia haven't exactly been a hit.

"It sounds like Longhorn is a way to implement Internet multi-media. I don't doubt that. Will it take over Flash? That's a longshot. First of all [Microsoft] would have to have a development environment" for building the graphics. "Flash is successful because it's accessible to a broad range of professional developers, as well as housewives that want to put animation on a Web site of a second grade class."

But where Flash has breadth in the market, sources familiar with the situation say "Sparkle" would provide depth to developers by offering vector based graphics that would conserve processing power through the use of declarative language in Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML, pronounced "zaml," a standard language for online transactions). (define)

Microsoft has also said that the new Longhorn API's (define) will enable developers to easily build rich user interfaces and applications with the graphics classes that provide animation, effects and "visually exciting images that exploit hardware acceleration."

Then again, software experts say, a lot can change between now and 2007, when the tools are expected to be released once Longhorn has stampeded into the marketplace.

Macromedia has also released new enhanced versions of its MX family of animation tools, including Flash, Dreamweaver and Fireworks. As previously reported in August, the overhaul is designed to appeal to the large community of programmers in Microsoft's Visual Basic.

As officials said at the time, Flash MX features video-editing controls as well as a programming metaphor that is "more like VB."

According to Macromedia, developers who have experience using tools such as Microsoft Visual Basic will appreciate the capability to design a form, add components, integrate with data, and build in application logic and navigation using a familiar interface.

One thing is clear: Microsoft's developers have apparently thrown down the gauntlet in developing new built-in graphics rendering tools that -- if integrated into the next-generation Windows operating system now called Longhorn -- could effectively force Flash and Director out of Windows desktops.

Article (http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3104381)

[shn]

Originally posted by KazaaBoy@8 November 2003 - 11:57
The hype in this forum about longhorn from Micro$oft is not a new Operating System as every one has herd or thougt. Here is the Article.


November 5, 2003
New Longhorn Graphics Tool Called "Flashkiller"
By Erin Joyce

Top developers at Microsoft (Quote, Chart) are working on a new graphics and animation toolset for Longhorn (the next generation of Windows) that could spell trouble for Macromedia's (Quote, Chart) popular Flash MX and Director MX animation tools, sources familiar with the situation told internetnews.com.

Code-named "Sparkle," the tools under development would be integrated with Microsoft's .NET (define) runtime environment. That would ultimately mean developers could have Flash- and Director-like animation and graphics tools ready-built for them soon after Longhorn hits the marketplace.

One source familiar with the project, who saw examples of the "Sparkle" toolset integrated with Microsoft's C# (define), said early prototypes have given rise to talk of its potential as a "Flashkiller" or even a "Director-killer," referring to Macromedia's popular Flash animation software and Director tool, which is best known for building small animations for CDs.

A spokesperson for Macromedia said the company does not comment on speculation or rumors about products not yet in release.

As for how the "Sparkle" project could pan out, a source familiar with the situation said much depends on the Longhorn build, which continues to morph even after the public airing of its pre-beta build (build 4051 of Longhorn) during Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles last week.

The news of yet another code-named project for Longhorn follows a flood of information about Microsoft's future product builds that rained down on the five-day PDC. Attendees got their hands on pre-beta versions of SQL Server ("Yukon"), Visual Studio .NET tools ("Whidbey") and a host of new graphics and animation rendering features in the Longhorn operating system.

Although demonstrations of Longhorn's capabilities at the conference did not include "Sparkle," a closer look at Longhorn's capabilities provides clues that Microsoft's vision for computing is based on providing tools for increasingly rich media and 3D vector graphics (define) capabilities in computers and computing devices.

With graphics processors apparently following the same principles of Moore's Law and roughly doubling their data density every 18 months, as prices for computers continue to fall, many in the technology industry think the industry could be at another inflection point similar to the arrival of the browser in 1995. Only this time, advances in computing will be with animation, 3D and other rich media.

A lot of the goals Microsoft is aiming at with "Sparkle" are the same as those Flash is looking to accomplish, one source said. But the tool goes beyond Flash in delivering a .NET application that has access to all the APIs (define) in Longhorn, and effectively takes animation beyond the browser to enable, say, three videos running at the same time as other graphics and animation.

Whether "Sparkle" would ship after Longhorn ships, which is now widely believed to be in 2006, is still an open question.

The news comes as the company continues its hiring spree of talent from all sectors of the technology industry, including former staff from Adobe, and as it doubles its R&D budget for its 2004 fiscal year to about $7 billion.

Still, for all the razzle-dazzle response that "Sparkle" has inspired by those that have seen it in action, the tool could also end up in Visual Studio or be given away with the operating system, one source said. It's too soon to tell.

And it's not the first time Microsoft, or Adobe for that matter, have tried to take on Macromedia's Flash, which is installed as a downloadable plug-in on roughly 95 percent of desktops that are Internet-enabled, said Scott Hamlin, a director of content for http://www.flashcomponents.com. (Jupitermedia, the parent company of this publication, licenses Hamlin's content in Flashcomponents.com, which is part of its ArtToday.com division.)

"Flash is one of the best technologies I know of that compresses vector imagery. It's mass compression, if you will. And Macromedia's innovation is in compressing that," he told internetnews.com.

Hamlin, who has also written several books about the software, such as "The Hidden Power of Flash Components," pointed to a prior build of a 3D graphics prototype for developers, which Microsoft at the time code-named "Chrome" in the late 1990s, that was thought of as a "Flashkiller" at the time. It wasn't.

But he also conceded that as a developer tool, Flash can leave some developers pulling their hair out and noted that recent product upgrades from Macromedia haven't exactly been a hit.

"It sounds like Longhorn is a way to implement Internet multi-media. I don't doubt that. Will it take over Flash? That's a longshot. First of all [Microsoft] would have to have a development environment" for building the graphics. "Flash is successful because it's accessible to a broad range of professional developers, as well as housewives that want to put animation on a Web site of a second grade class."

But where Flash has breadth in the market, sources familiar with the situation say "Sparkle" would provide depth to developers by offering vector based graphics that would conserve processing power through the use of declarative language in Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML, pronounced "zaml," a standard language for online transactions). (define)

Microsoft has also said that the new Longhorn API's (define) will enable developers to easily build rich user interfaces and applications with the graphics classes that provide animation, effects and "visually exciting images that exploit hardware acceleration."

Then again, software experts say, a lot can change between now and 2007, when the tools are expected to be released once Longhorn has stampeded into the marketplace.

Macromedia has also released new enhanced versions of its MX family of animation tools, including Flash, Dreamweaver and Fireworks. As previously reported in August, the overhaul is designed to appeal to the large community of programmers in Microsoft's Visual Basic.

As officials said at the time, Flash MX features video-editing controls as well as a programming metaphor that is "more like VB."

According to Macromedia, developers who have experience using tools such as Microsoft Visual Basic will appreciate the capability to design a form, add components, integrate with data, and build in application logic and navigation using a familiar interface.

One thing is clear: Microsoft's developers have apparently thrown down the gauntlet in developing new built-in graphics rendering tools that -- if integrated into the next-generation Windows operating system now called Longhorn -- could effectively force Flash and Director out of Windows desktops.

Article (http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3104381)
What the hell are you talking about?

If longhorn is not an o.s. then why have people been installing it and running it. Eventhough at its current stage of development it literally sucks, I would say that yes it is an o.s.

What your refering to, obviously, is a graphics "tool" or app that will probably make its way into the longhorn os.

[Marius24]

it IS and OS M&#036; have just create some flash tools to go with it <_<

[Marius24]

Originally posted by KazaaBoy@8 November 2003 - 16:57
Top developers at Microsoft (Quote, Chart) are working on a new graphics and animation toolset FOR Longhorn
see <_<

[Kunal]

longhorn is a os, but is also a goup of other technolagies being developed by M&#036;

[Johnny_B]

Longhorn is just a code name for the next Micro&#036;oft OS that should be released in 2005 or 2006.

Longhorn contains other code names related to different software that will be included, such as Avalon or Whidbey.
Avalon describes APIs for handling graphics and presentation. Whidbey is the name for the version of Visual Studio that is supposed to ship alongside Longhorn.

Here&#39;s a list of Micro&#036;oft code names:

Operating Systems: McKendric - Windows CE .NET update
Blackcomb - Successor to Windows XP
Longhorn - Windows XP 2nd Edition (approx 2005)
Merlin - Windows CE for Pocket PC V2.1 (Pocket PC 2002)
Whistler - Windows XP / Windows Server 2003 (.Net)
Odysee - Windows 2000 successor XP (canceled, see Whistler)
WinNT 5.0 - Windows 2000
Millennium - Windows ME (Millennium Edition)
Neptune - Successor to Windows 98 (cancelled, see Whistler)
Memphis - Windows 98
Detroit - Windows 95 successor (cancelled)
Cairo - Windows NT 4.0
Chicago- Windows 95
Daytona - Windows NT 3.5
Snowball - Windows for Workgroups 3.11
Janus - Windows for Workgroups 3.1
Applications: Yukon - Successor to SQL Server 2000
Titanium - Exchange 2003
Kodiak - Successor to Exchange 2003
Platinum - Exchange 2002
Shiloh - SQL Server 2000

Development Platforms: Orcas - Visual Studio .NET 2005 - 2006
Whidbey - Visual Studio .NET 2004
Everett - Visual Studio .NET 2003
Denali - Active Server Pages

Misc.: Palladium - Trustworthy Computing (later changed to "Next Generation Secure Computing" - NGSC) f*cking Big Brother <_<
Corona - Windows Media 9 Series (3rd Generation)
Mira - Smart Displays
Midway - Xbox
HailStorm - .NET My Services
Wolfpack - Load balancing service for Windows (Microsoft Cluster Server)
I would really appreciate if Micro&#036;oft would focus on making better software instead of coming up with all these annoying and sh*tty code names. :blink:

[KazaaBoy]

If it&#39;s an OP system, why are they attacking Macromedia products? If they want to make an OP system then they should foucs on the OP system instead of adding a graphics tool.

@ SHN
You didn&#39;t need to quote me to make the thread longer <_<

[-E-]

Because its friggin Microsoft...they don&#39;t want anyone to have a major marketshare in anything related to their operating systems.

[SniperInTheShadows]

How does M&#036;&#39;s adding extra graphic&#39;s features to their next OS translate into it not being a new OS?

All that article, from what I could make out inbetween all the jargon, say&#39;s is that they&#39;re adding graphic&#39;s features similair to Macromedia&#39;s Flash software.

The reason they&#39;re adding it i&#39;d imagine is to give user&#39;s more for their money (which knowing M&#036; will be alot of money for it lol), and give themselves more junk to make patches and security updates for in the future lol

I&#39;m not attempting to piss you off here KazaaBoy and sorry if i&#39;ve done so, i&#39;m just trying to figure out your line of thinking on this, and how you came to your conclusion concerning Longhorn, as I don&#39;t understand it.

Sniper.

[KazaaBoy]

Originally posted by SniperInTheShadows@8 November 2003 - 20:16
How does M&#036;&#39;s adding extra graphic&#39;s features to their next OS translate into it not being a new OS?

All that article, from what I could make out inbetween all the jargon, say&#39;s is that they&#39;re adding graphic&#39;s features similair to Macromedia&#39;s Flash software.

The reason they&#39;re adding it i&#39;d imagine is to give user&#39;s more for their money (which knowing M&#036; will be alot of money for it lol), and give themselves more junk to make patches and security updates for in the future lol

I&#39;m not attempting to piss you off here KazaaBoy and sorry if i&#39;ve done so, i&#39;m just trying to figure out your line of thinking on this, and how you came to your conclusion concerning Longhorn, as I don&#39;t understand it.

Sniper.
You mean it&#39;s an OP but you can create animations with it for the web :blink: ?



Ever seen a flying pig?

[Johnny_B]

@KazaaBoy

Read this (http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp).

[3RA1N1AC]

note that Windows already comes with a web-browser, a text editor, a media player, a chat program & file exchange program, an email client, and a few other programs that other companies would be glad to charge you separately for? do you want Microsoft to strip all of these things out, so that all you have is an operating system? i doubt you&#39;d enjoy it very much.

and MS are not just an OS publisher-- they are a computer software publisher in general. i think you&#39;re trying to slant the conversation by accusing MS of "attacking" Macromedia just for introducing their own graphics products. are Macromedia guilty of "attacking" Adobe, who&#39;ve been around with their web & graphics programs a heck of a lot longer than Macromedia, just for publishing programs that compete with Adobe products?

sure, it&#39;s monopolistic for Microsoft to pack free programs in with the OS so that there&#39;s no need for third-party ones. but all those other companies have to do is make programs that are SUPERIOR to MS programs-- if they can&#39;t do that, then maybe they need to switch gears toward something else. personally i wouldn&#39;t mind if Windows came with more high-quality programs integrated-- if MS would do something about plugging the security holes in Outlook once-and-for-all, and if they&#39;d include a decent FTP client instead of trying to make IE double as a crappy FTP browser, i&#39;d be totally happy about that.

[KazaaBoy]

Thanks Johnny_B for clearing that up :)


i think you&#39;re trying to slant the conversation by accusing MS of "attacking" Macromedia just for introducing their own graphics products. are Macromedia guilty of "attacking" Adobe, who&#39;ve been around with their web & graphics programs a heck of a lot longer than Macromedia, just for publishing programs that compete with Adobe products?

Other then just defending Micro&#036;oft, name a graphics software that they made that can compete with Adobe Products :blink: <_<

[3RA1N1AC]

your phrasing is confusing.

and that article you put in the first post would&#39;ve made for an interesting thread, if you actually knew WTF you were talking about instead of going off on some crazy tangent. get back on the prozac already.

[shn]

Originally posted by KazaaBoy@8 November 2003 - 13:49
If it&#39;s an OP system, why are they attacking Macromedia products?&nbsp; If they want to make an OP system then they should foucs on the OP system instead of adding a graphics tool.

@ SHN
You didn&#39;t need to quote me to make the thread longer&nbsp; <_<
@boywhodoesnothaveaclue
Actually had you thought about your topic before you started it then people wouldnt have had to correct your misleading and incorrect statement about longhorn.

I make the thread longer? You just started a topic not knowing what the hell you were talking about.:blink: Sounds like more of a waste than mine. <_<

[Evil Gemini]

btw its OS not OP

:rolleyes:

[muchspl2]

I preferr RP to OP, but if you play your cards right you can turn OP into RP
just got to have game

[KazaaBoy]

@ 3RA1N1AC and SHN (shit head nit-wit) :angry: :angry:

Why is it that every one is correcting me and both of you are acting like low life degenerets who love to make trouble for people. Have you never been corrected?

@ 3RA1N1AC
Before you start swearing at me you better think twice if you think I am gonna have it from people like you :angry: so shut the F*** up and f*** off

shn (shit head nit-wit) if you&#39;re gonna give me a stupid attitude like 3RA1N1AC I am gonna give you one back :angry:

[3RA1N1AC]

you&#39;re the one with the attitude.

[KazaaBoy]

What attitude is that? Please point it out because if I remember correctly it was you who swore at me and insulted me first :angry:

[Storm]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@8 November 2003 - 22:58
note that Windows already comes with a web-browser, a text editor, a media player, a chat program & file exchange program, an email client, and a few other programs that other companies would be glad to charge you separately for? do you want Microsoft to strip all of these things out, so that all you have is an operating system? i doubt you&#39;d enjoy it very much.

and MS are not just an OS publisher-- they are a computer software publisher in general. i think you&#39;re trying to slant the conversation by accusing MS of "attacking" Macromedia just for introducing their own graphics products. are Macromedia guilty of "attacking" Adobe, who&#39;ve been around with their web & graphics programs a heck of a lot longer than Macromedia, just for publishing programs that compete with Adobe products?

sure, it&#39;s monopolistic for Microsoft to pack free programs in with the OS so that there&#39;s no need for third-party ones. but all those other companies have to do is make programs that are SUPERIOR to MS programs-- if they can&#39;t do that, then maybe they need to switch gears toward something else. personally i wouldn&#39;t mind if Windows came with more high-quality programs integrated-- if MS would do something about plugging the security holes in Outlook once-and-for-all, and if they&#39;d include a decent FTP client instead of trying to make IE double as a crappy FTP browser, i&#39;d be totally happy about that.
so we have 2 pay more, to get things we might not want (all i want is an OS, hell i even h8 IE)........ and then we cant get rid of the programs we dont wanna use.......

ne1 noticed how impossible it is 2 get rid of certain progs like IE, Win Msg, Outlook and all that other crap???

[Johnny_B]

Originally posted by Storm@9 November 2003 - 02:48
ne1 noticed how impossible it is 2 get rid of certain progs like IE, Win Msg, Outlook and all that other crap???
Don&#39;t forget Windows Media Player 9. <_<

[Ma5t3rM1nD]

Actually they don&#39;t think of those "codenames" they have actually stolen them for a huge snow/ski mountain area they took the names from the mountain names were those rich bitches stay for example whistler etc . . damn I hope that place sues them for using copyrighted names :D .

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by KazaaBoy@8 November 2003 - 18:45
What attitude is that? Please point it out because if I remember correctly it was you who swore at me and insulted me first :angry:
your remark about defending "Micro&#036;oft" had attitude written all over it. you&#39;re one of those people whose first instinct when MS creates a program is to think that they&#39;re "attacking" someone, and your first instinct when someone disagrees with you is to accuse them of defending MS as if they&#39;re drooling braindead M1CR0&#036;&#036;&#036;H4FT fanboyz. that&#39;s exactly the sort of crap that teenagers have polluted countless forums with.

implying that someone is a fanboy just for disagreeing with you is an insult. y&#39;all just haters.

when people go off with crazy Mac-bashing threads, i say "Macs aren&#39;t so bad, OSX is actually really good," and right away i get accused of being an Apple fanboy. when people go off with crazy Playstation-bashing threads about how Xbox is so much better because it&#39;s got leet graphics, i say "graphics aren&#39;t everything," and right away i get accused of being a Sony fanboy.

"defending Micro&#036;oft." get outta my face with that. if you use Windows and you depend on things like DirectX, you can really get outta my face with that. okay, i&#39;m done with this sorry thread. :rolleyes:

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC@8 November 2003 - 22:58
note that Windows already comes with a web-browser, a text editor, a media player, a chat program & file exchange program, an email client, and a few other programs that other companies would be glad to charge you separately for? do you want Microsoft to strip all of these things out, so that all you have is an operating system?
Fuck yes&#33;

[SniperInTheShadows]

Hi KazaaBoy

Longhorn is an OS, just because they&#39;re adding new features doesn&#39;t change that. If adding new features mean&#39;s it&#39;s no longer an OS, then your saying that everything from the first ever Windows upto Windows XP aren&#39;t OS&#39;s (they added a firewall into XP so does that mean that XP is not an OS anymore and instead is now just a firewall?, and also that they&#39;ve got something against companies who have made firewall&#39;s?

I seriously doubt that M&#036; has anything against Macromedia, and I doubt that their own flash type features will be anywhere near as good as Macromedia&#39;s.

I still can&#39;t see where your getting the impression that Longhorn is not an OS from that article, if you could clear that up then i&#39;m sure everyone involved in this thread will see where your coming from and be able to explaine where they&#39;re coming from too :-)

Sniper.

[globalterminator]

in english? :ph34r:

[shn]

Originally posted by KazaaBoy@8 November 2003 - 19:35
@ 3RA1N1AC and SHN (shit head nit-wit)&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; :angry:

Why is it that every one is correcting me and both of you are acting like low life degenerets who love to make trouble for people.&nbsp; Have you never been corrected?&nbsp;

@ 3RA1N1AC
Before you start swearing at me you better think twice if you think I am gonna have it from people like you&nbsp; :angry:&nbsp; so shut the F*** up and f*** off

shn (shit head nit-wit)&nbsp; if you&#39;re gonna give me a stupid attitude like 3RA1N1AC I am gonna give you one back&nbsp; :angry:
"Cant we all just get along?" :huh:

No really, calm down kazaa boy. Its really not that serious to be getting all rouled up. I apologize if I offended you. :D

And yes Ive been corrected before. And Im sure out of all my post on this forum Ive posted something incorrect like you did without fully knowing the facts. But thats ok because were all human and make mistakes. The key is to keep your cool and not go postal on the people that tell you that thats not correct. You know, good people skills. :rolleyes: Which if I may add I really dont have myself. :lol: