Anonymous is to DDoS sony...

[EyeCandy]

Something I found, why isn't this front page news....


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5548/1301918014618.jpg

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1395/pysdr.jpg

[Cabalo]

Because I personally believe we are over empowering a group of left wing kids by publishing their stunts.

[shipwreck]

Left wing, right wing, shwing. Whatever pisses Sony off is fine with me. They are evil for so many reasons it's difficult to know where to start.

[anon]

Didn't the guy behind the last "operation" get caught or something?

[TONiC]

Some dutch 12 year olds no?

[Cabalo]

I like their motto: "Courage is contagious". :rolleyes:
Oddly, last time one of them was caught, there was nothing about bravery found on his actions.

[megabyteme]

Left wing, right wing, shwing. Whatever pisses Sony off is fine with me. They are evil for so many reasons it's difficult to know where to start.

I may have to like you yet. :)

[ca_aok]

Sony can kiss the fattest part of my ass. We're talking about the company that put rootkits on their CDs so that people who legally bought their products couldn't copy them onto their computers. They have a long history of being closed-minded, closed-format, and abusing the consumers to the very limits they'll withstand.

As far as I'm concerned, they deserve whatever they get. Not that a DDoS will really do much.

[IdolEyes787]

I like their motto: "Courage is contagious". :rolleyes:
Oddly, last time one of them was caught, there was nothing about bravery found on his actions.

Levi Coffin.... Oskar Schindler... Martin Luther King Jr.......GeoHot .Now add the name of anonymous dude typing on his couch someplace to the list of history's great heroes.

[megabyteme]

I actually do admire GeoHot. I think he is one of the few who have truly put themselves out there to stand against the MEGAcorps and their self-serving, anti-consumer BS.

[Quarterquack]

Ha! It's because you've never met/spoken to him directly I assume. He's an egotistic ass who steals other people's work (and mind you I'm not just talking about the PS3), and then uses other people's documented methods to gain popularity. This entire thing is nothing more than him trying to get a job, I assure you.

Sony and EgoHot deserve each other.

[Tv Controls you]

Anon always makes threats like this.... Literally go to an anon board and just refresh the page a little....

Personally, I believe anyone who stays on the site religiously to have no life. It is just a bunch of perverted immature teenagers that will do anything to get attention/harm other people.
The information they are providing for there reasons have no credible sources????

People will just blindly attack sony with a simple image, with a few random reasons......
Better yet, good luck trying to DDoS sony.

In any case..... arm your cannons lol.
http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=220491

[shipwreck]

Sony deserves everything they get and more, for whatever reasons. The company that intentionally installed rootkits on the PCs of their customers, that pushes monstrosities like the Cinavia 'protection' that actually only hurts their honest customers (again...), or continuously tried to establish nonsense 'standards' like the Memory Stick, out of pure greed and their insatiable thirst for control. Where to start indeed.

A properly planned and executed DDoS attack can not be stopped. Depending on the scale, any site can be brought down, even the largest ones.

[megabyteme]

Ha! It's because you've never met/spoken to him directly I assume. He's an egotistic ass who steals other people's work (and mind you I'm not just talking about the PS3), and then uses other people's documented methods to gain popularity. This entire thing is nothing more than him trying to get a job, I assure you.

Sony and EgoHot deserve each other.

I have not met/spoken with him. I would appreciate it if you would post links to info detailing his theft of others' work. AFAIK, he is widely credited with the iPhone, and now the PS3. I have not seen any criticisms beside yours (I, admittedly, have not looked for them), and am interested in hearing, "the other side".

I do know he is in the line of fire for an issue that absolutely needs to be addressed legally. If he were to get a job for his efforts, I don't see how that would be a bad thing, really.

[ca_aok]

Well with the PS3 the method to obtain the master keys had already been published as a proof of concept, they just hadn't actually been released.

With the iPhone, most of the other jailbreak developers hate him because he tends to release things haphazardly at inopportune times, for example when Apple is just about to release a new update to have something easily patched.

He certainly does have a huge ego, but there's no denying he's got some talent.

[mjmacky]

I may dislike Sony as much as the next poster, but one question hasn't been answered.
What real consequence is it going after their servers? I mean, disrupting PSN and making it hard to get to their support page... is anybody really going to suffer as a result? I could maybe understand an uproar over an attack on Microsoft servers, but it's not like anything on Sony's servers will really be missed. In fact, there might be some innocent people suffering, plugged into to Sonyverse and this could temporarily free them from a Sonyhell. They don't really host relevance, so it seems like a bit of a wasted effort.

[shipwreck]

Sony actually surpassed Microsoft Xbox as far as PS3 online services are concerned just recently, for example. It obviously generates some good money for them.

Guess this is more about the symbolic impact than anything though. Whatever, fuck Sony and every of their associates. And their associates. And the 'Age of Dragon' producers for wasting 10 minutes of my life.

[EyeCandy]

Edit: Information changed...

[EyeCandy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tm7UKo4IBc

[megabyteme]

While many may not agree with the actions of Anonymous, what is an alternative recourse to a multi-billion dollar company that is attacking not only personal computer freedoms, but also violating the privacy and rights of individuals?

If a foreign country were to invade your cities, would you not take up arms (or even rocks if that is all you had) against those who would do you harm? While it is certainly not the "high road" they are taking, it is one way a group has found to fight back- do whatever small, disruptive, or costly actions you can while raising awareness to your cause in hopes that a larger, stronger force will recognize your message- and lend their strength.

While some of the "attacks" may be childish, or even enacted by children (who are wanna-be's, or playing), the messages do have validity. Even if you find the "attacks" lame, remember the messages next time you think about supporting a loathsome corporation such as Sony. Regardless of their latest "cool" gizmo- DO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS. ULTIMATELY, YOU ARE AIDING YOUR OWN ENEMY. That is, unless you like having online, and consumer product freedoms taken from you.

[shipwreck]

With the exception of a $30 stereo bluetooth headset from Sony Ericsson for which there is no (affordable) alternative of similar quality, I haven't bought a Sony product since the Playstation 1 in 1995. I've been avoiding them like the plague exactly because of that.

[Monaco]

Most of my electronics were made by Sony. I love my unhacked PS3 and don't really care about all of the whining about Sony.

[megabyteme]

Most of my electronics were made by Sony. I love my unhacked PS3 and don't really care about all of the whining about Sony.

Not only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.

[Monaco]

Most of my electronics were made by Sony. I love my unhacked PS3 and don't really care about all of the whining about Sony.

Not only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.

Consumer law was easily the most boring elective I took in law school. My professor accused me of similar charges. With the exception of a few instances where the poor are truly preyed upon or people's safety is at risk, I just don't care. Frankly, I didn't research my purchases, I just went to the Sony store at my local mall and bought what I wanted, which is generally how I make purchases.

[TONiC]

Consumer law was easily the most boring elective I took in law school. My professor accused me of similar charges. With the exception of a few instances where the poor are truly preyed upon or people's safety is at risk, I just don't care. Frankly, I didn't research my purchases, I just went to the Sony store at my local mall and bought what I wanted, which is generally how I make purchases.

You sound pretty stereotypical American tbh. Are you?

[Quarterquack]

Most of my electronics were made by Sony. I love my unhacked PS3 and don't really care about all of the whining about Sony.

Bingo.

My portable headphones were made by Sony (MDR-7506). If I ever buy another high end piece of headphone goodness, they would be the Sony MDR-R10.
My laptop is a Sony Vaio Z. If I were to ever upgrade it would be to the newer model or a different VAIO. I'd also buy a Sony TX in a heart beat.
My entertainment has always been Sony, starting with a PS1/2/P/3. They are all hacked and they are lovely, and I basically grew my gaming sweet tooth on a dualshock.

There is no moral foundation for any of these actions, and trying to reason that what was done was "right" is stupid. Hackers opened up the PS3, Sony retaliated. Did no one see it coming, really? This isn't about copyrights, this is just about being right. Sony isn't and shouldn't stand still while their console gets opened wide over sideways and under.


Not only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.

You obviously have never had a lot of Sony products. My dear father has had his MDR-V6's for 20 years. I recently walked into a Sony store with my headphones, a month before my 5-year warranty was up, and suggested that the drivers were starting to get colored and was instantly given a new pair, even though there was nothing wrong with them, I just thought that I may as well use my warranty in order to last myself an extra 5 years with my purchase.

My PS1 has been in working order since 1997. My PS2 since 2001. How many times have XBox releases fail since? How many other consoles from Nintendo report fatal errors?

All the VAIOs I ever bought (my previous 4 laptops) have been fantastic laptop with minimal (and actually useful at times) bloatware, and have all remained in functioning order years after their intended usage. I replaced them not out of necessity but out of wanting a new laptop and them getting old. Dells and HP's, even ASUS have repeatedly failed on me, and left me without a laptop while they had to be shipped halfway around the world for fixing.

Marketing? Bleh. More like superb customer service, and things that work the same way they were intended, as well as products that outlast themselves and are repeatedly top of the line. It's why I pay the Sony premium.

EDIT:

Also, fuck anyone the succumbs to the hacker propaganda. They're painting a picture of them being the victims. Please. OtherOS was taken out because GeoHot was trying to run pirated games eventually. His speech of wanting to simply run linux is a lie. He says anything that makes him seem respectable/amazing in people's eyes. "I'm fighting for people's public rights", "I just wanted to run linux", etc. The brat is a disgusting concoction of toe-stepping actions and ego-framing stunts. Want to know how real hackers work? They keep their work private. Unlike GeoHot, Mathieulh, Graf_Chokolo etc. I myself, as well as many other people had "pseudo" hacks running or keys extracted from the PS3 long before this major exploit came along (that GeoHot did not find, but just publicized as his own). You are welcome to do whatever you wish to your own console, it's your own. But you're not free to distribute it, that's where he's stepping over the line.

Before I spent most of time studying and fooling around with 10-15 games a week I used to develop hacks for online games. They're fantastic little things and a massive money hoarder. The only issue I ever morally had was the distribution, and I eventually quit because I saw it unfit anymore to allow people to ride on my back or use the hacks I created to destroy other people's enjoyment. My original intent was fun, level-headed action in private rooms, and that's how I used any cheat I developed. Flying around in the air on CS servers shooting 250% damage pistol bullets. Again: The 'real' hackers don't publicize their work, and they don't attempt to make of themselves anything by virtue of their deeds. GeoHot actually had a sign on his site saying "If any of you big three want to hire me, just call," or something along those lines.

If you want to read up on all of this it's freely available through google. I won't look for them, simply because you're equally competent as I am. I'm sure something like "limera1n criticism", "limera1n stolen", or "Team FailOverFlow vs. GeoHot" in google will prove a lot to you about who that trashy kid really is. He's talented but not nearly as talented as he would have people think.

Yes, I am passionate about this because I'm sick of seeing people stick these hackers up on a podium as casualties of a war waged by the people against the evil corporate world. I will stand up for my own rights, in the way I see fit, on my computer, and by my own efforts. Everyone else is free to do as they choose. I don't need some dork somewhere and his two lawyers dictating to me what I should be feeling towards a company.

[megabyteme]

Not only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.

Consumer law was easily the most boring elective I took in law school. My professor accused me of similar charges. With the exception of a few instances where the poor are truly preyed upon or people's safety is at risk, I just don't care. Frankly, I didn't research my purchases, I just went to the Sony store at my local mall and bought what I wanted, which is generally how I make purchases.

You are intelligent enough to get into law school, but "don't care" about corporations trampling the rights of its consumer base. And you walk into a store without researching your purchases. Why do I get the feeling you did not pay for your own schooling, nor the electronics? :dabs:

[Quarterquack]

I edited my post, MBM. Hope you read all the modified parts. :happy:

[Monaco]

@jojo
I think you got it right there. Basically I've always used either Sony or Apple products. So when I had to equip my own place, I knew that without nitpicking through tech blogs I could go to Sony and not be disappointed by my purchase. Especially re: consoles, my buddy had 5+ 360's die on him and I'd only owned PS consoles, so it was a foregone conclusion I'd buy the PS3.


@ megabyteme:
I paid (or am paying) for everything. Perhaps it is just a personality thing or a result of my upbringing, but I simply do not see any consumer's rights being trampled here. I see a company addressing a problem in protecting their rights. On the other side, I recognize the people fighting for what they believe should be their rights in our evolving digitized world. But that's not what the law says. And I'm not a free market conservative or anything like that, so don't assume too much.

[Tokeman]

I love my PS3. Do I agree with everything sony is doing? No. Is that going to stop me from enjoying games? No! I'm not going to be forced to buy some shoddy hardware from microsoft, which at the time of my purchase, had over a 50% failure rate.
Hell, I dont agree with half of what my government is doing, but does that stop me from living here? No!
Just because you don't fully agree with something is no reason to avoid it all together. Some people think if everyone avoids it, they will change, but guess what? That rarely happens, especially with a giant company like Sony. They could give two shits about what you think or if you buy their stuff or not. Your loss, not theirs.
Have fun on your moral high ground while I play some great games, or listen to music on my great headphones.

[EyeCandy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eryqClObdO8

[mjmacky]

I edited my post, MBM. Hope you read all the modified parts. :happy:

Is no one reading your post, is it probably too long? I mean, with the opinions here (mine included), it should receive some backlash, but no one responded. Don't worry, I'll give my reply to it.

This anti-Sony sentiment I harbor isn't so much sympathy for "GeoHot", but rather empathy for an(some) individual(s) targeted by a corporation. Essentially, according to your story, he highlighted a hack that allowed one to open the PS3 to a Linux installation once again, after it was removed by Sony. Is this supposed to be of any significant consequence to the multifaceted megacorporation that is Sony? I would wager a pretty confident 'no'. Granted, Sony has every right to pursue the individual in question, but have they been put into a situation where keeping their business successful warrants this magnitude of a response? I don't think so, and find it to be really dick of them.

On another note, we haven't had 4 Sony Vaio's run through our family, for having 2 motherboard failures due to poor soldering has led us astray from considering further Sony laptop purchases. They were of different generations and replacement boards were going to run $500-$600. The only Sony product owned in our household (that I can think of) is the Walkman, which is great, because it can play stolen music that is drag-n-dropped into it (love USB mass storage modes).

[megabyteme]

I read it, I have not had time to give it a worthy reply. Rings and I have had several conversations on this board, and often the ones where we disagree end up consuming a fair amount of time. My life is quite full right now (that will change drastically after finishing our remodel undertakings, and my thesis).

Apologies for not replying accordingly, Rings. Perhaps macky will give you a run... :D

[Quarterquack]

I'm in no rush, MBM. :)

I understand how painful it is to type up a reply, I sometimes stop mid-rant in order to remind myself I need to finish a paper. Also, MBM, for when you have time, look up the Sony QUALIA line of electronics, which are no longer in production, but properly showcast everything that the brand name stands for.


Is no one reading your post, is it probably too long? I mean, with the opinions here (mine included), it should receive some backlash, but no one responded. Don't worry, I'll give my reply to it.

This anti-Sony sentiment I harbor isn't so much sympathy for "GeoHot", but rather empathy for an(some) individual(s) targeted by a corporation. Essentially, according to your story, he highlighted a hack that allowed one to open the PS3 to a Linux installation once again, after it was removed by Sony. Is this supposed to be of any significant consequence to the multifaceted megacorporation that is Sony? I would wager a pretty confident 'no'. Granted, Sony has every right to pursue the individual in question, but have they been put into a situation where keeping their business successful warrants this magnitude of a response? I don't think so, and find it to be really dick of them.

On another note, we haven't had 4 Sony Vaio's run through our family, for having 2 motherboard failures due to poor soldering has led us astray from considering further Sony laptop purchases. They were of different generations and replacement boards were going to run $500-$600. The only Sony product owned in our household (that I can think of) is the Walkman, which is great, because it can play stolen music that is drag-n-dropped into it (love USB mass storage modes).

I never aimed to suggest that anti-Sony statements are due to any hacker-related siding. I just said that some of the fuel comes from that side. You are feeling empathic towards a thief, who uses this entire thing as a publicity stunt. Sure it sucks that GeoHot gets sued, but it was his own doing that got him there. Fun fact, GeoHot released nothing to the world that wasn't going to be released anyway. He got himself involved, and threw himself onto the oncoming train of a multi-billion dollar corporation, basically challenging them to sue him what with all the public outreach and all. Nobody expected Sony to sit still, and everyone involved realize some rights were going to be taken away (PSN access etc.). No one says "Someone lost a foot while drilling a chainsaw into the ground - I can't help but feel empathic." Nobody does so because said "someone" knew what they were getting themselves into. As for "magnitude of a response" please read the history I will write towards the end of this post.

Sure VAIO have problems, all manufacturers do, but the very fact that your laptops only had trouble AFTER the warranty was up says something doesn't it? HP, DELL, Toshiba etc. have to consistently patch drivers in their updates in order to ensure that their "issues" are never brought to light. I'm sure many a hardware enthusiast remembers HP's response in the great Nvidia overheat issue of the 8000 series. HP's response was to increase fan speed, so that they don't get a lot of returns. There's the difference between the companies. One treats its customers like idiots who don't know better, while the other only pushes hardware it knows is built to last.

Also: Anon will support any cause, no matter how inane it sounds.

And for everyone who has followed the thread until now, let me just explain a few historical facts:
GeoHot was trying to enable piracy using Linux on the PS3.
Sony took it away from everyone because of this one individual's behavior (and yet he's respected).
Team Fail0verflow found the key exploit but said they only did it to re-enable Linux (p.s. I know some TF0 members personally, and knew of the exploit before I'd say 99% of people, through them, (I could link you to a post I made on a specific tracker forum about it two days before the speech was even made), and yet I didn't have the moral-deficiency to take it from them).
GeoHot stole that from them, added the metldr keys which could have been (and were easily) dumped previously, and released the exploit as his own only accrediting Team Fail0verflow as peers and not concept distributors. GeoHot then releases a Custom Firmware that locks NPDRM in order to "not enable piracy" - this time he's taking the stance of TF0 in order to prove to himself he's something respectable.
The exploit allowed people to do A LOT more than install Linux.*
Sony sues GeoHot for his behavior.
GeoHot's lawyers decide to argue against the jurisdiction of the court.
Sony decides to ask for any and all information it can in order to prove the jurisdiction (in fact, the collection of IP's is only to prove, with the oversight of the court, that the case should be held in California - let's be realistic, Sony already has the IP's it needs, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool, this is just them showing legal proceedings).

So how could this all have been avoided? If GeoHot stopped being an egotistic little bitch. Basically.

* Think of a PS3 as a computer locked down to only serve one function, like airport terminal computers displaying flight schedules etc. The exploit "opens" up the entire function of the computer, and thus by opening it up, you can even modify the function it was intended to serve (in the airport terminal computer, that becomes modifying schedule display, in the ps3's case that becomes pirating games, installing linux, and allowing the ps3 to function as a complete computer - depending on how much effort one is willing to put in into serving a particular function).

[Tokeman]

Piracy aside, there is nothing wrong with modifying something you own, and thats the issue here, period. Lets take cars for example. If sony made them, they'd have bolted down hoods. You wouldn't be able to put a chip in them, or any after market parts, because that makes the car do things it wasn't originally designed to. Well guess what? you own the car, you can do what you want with it. Where the line is drawn legally is PSN. If the hacks stay away from piracy and PSN, then sony has no legal grounds to tell you what you can and can't do to a piece of hardware you own. I'm not defending geohot at all, but there is nothing wrong with modifying the PS3 to do things it wasn't designed for as long as it does not involve PSN or playing games IMO. Allowing it to be a full blown computer is a great thing, no reason for it not to be able to do these things.

Of course once you open up a console it does allow a path to piracy, but thats up to people to decide to do that or not do that.

[Quarterquack]

There is nothing wrong with modifying your own console to run your own code. As I mentioned a few posts back, you own it, you can therefore do whatever you want to with it, in my books. What I do have a problem with is distribution, or using such exploits as a social engineering platform to land a job somewhere or get some free hardware from some desperate geeks vying for piracy (GeoHot does this, by the way, just have a look around and you'll find out how he got his first PS3).

I will also cordially disagree with the "that's the issue here" part. The reason this got blown out of proportion is because both parties couldn't let this get low publicity. Sony is trying to scare its buyers into not using their consoles in ways they were not intended, and the hackers are throwing up some fingers in order to just piss Sony for the heck of it. The issue here is that publicity works, otherwise, neither party would've started this battle.

EDIT: As for your car analogy, you still need to get a licensing on the parts you modify your car with, nay? So, no, you still cannot modify your road-legal car into a plane without a few no-you-cannnot-s coming up in your way.
I'm not arguing with you, I just thought it was a rather hilarious oversight.

[1000possibleclaws]

The core concept of console-production business models is to not to support open-formats. I'm pretty sure most if not all consoles are close-format, because their revenue comes from licensing fees.

Sony would be fools not to include some sort of clause making it illegal to modify their console software.

[Quarterquack]

Sony Computer Entertainment America and George Hotz today announced the settlement of the lawsuit ... Hotz consented to a permanent injunction.

Yeah. I actually didn't see that one coming. :lol:

[OlegL]

Sony is a great firm; I own a Sony Bravia TV and a PS3, and I love them both. I legally buy my games for the PS3 and I don't want to try to hack it.

[mjmacky]

Sony is trying to scare its buyers into not using their consoles in ways they were not intended, and the hackers are throwing up some fingers in order to just piss Sony for the heck of it.
This! This! You're really on Sony's side of this, as you have presented it? Let's substitute this particular guy with someone you know that parsed out the information in another way meant for private discussion and it exploded to public. Would you feel differently about the response, i.e. is this where you draw the line. As far as I know, he was spreading the information, was he also personally distributing the files needed?

[Quarterquack]

Where I draw the line is the distribution. He gave away both a private firmware and the keys, albeit half the work was done for him. Again, I'm taking Sony's side because I knew it would happen, and I know the people who distributed it originally (to my utter dismay). As I said, it's like standing on a train track. You know the train is coming, so if you don't move out the way, why should anyone help/care? Did people really expect Sony to do nothing? And as far as I'm concerned, Sony's scare tactics worked. It's not like the PS3 homebrew scene came up with anything worthwhile. Look to the Wii for that.

If people had a legitimate reason for the homebrew applications, I'd be fine with it. As far as I can see, the only worthwhile things released are piracy-enabling material. No music backgrounding tools, no feature unlocking/save exporting homebrew, no custom drivers or reversed Move drivers, no 3D enabling in the menu, no bravia media playback enhancement dumping, no BD extraction, no custom XMB's, and the list I could come up with could go on - so tell me then, what was the point all these "hackers" were trying to prove? That they could enable piracy/homebrew/console emulation but then not do much else, it's still very much a locked console because no one wants to put the effort for anything but producing proofs of concept.

The only thing worthwhile from this entire fiasco was a signed permanent TN-D and VSH. :happy:

[ca_aok]

I'm still waiting for someone to lift the SACD decryption method out of the PS3 somehow.

[EyeCandy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsiWUC2S1nw

They aren't done yet

Probably the biggest production I've seen them put in a video....

[mjmacky]

As I said, it's like standing on a train track. You know the train is coming, so if you don't move out the way, why should anyone help/care? Did people really expect Sony to do nothing? And as far as I'm concerned, Sony's scare tactics worked. It's not like the PS3 homebrew scene came up with anything worthwhile.

Well except that he's in the middle of the road, and it's a giant SUV speeding at him, and the driver is screaming, "I'm going to ram you so hard motherfucker!". The other analogy makes it feel like there is no option for Sony, and that there's only one way to get into Sony's crosshairs. Anyways, I think the finalized statement from me would be if a company resorts to aggressive scare tactics, they don't have my sympathy. In my realm of opinion, this causes Sony to lose lots of points (not that they had many to start with), and Microsoft won back a lot of points (for a side story not mentioned in this thread, but it involves GeoHot). On another side note, does anyone remember the original XBMC, how hard did MS crackdown on that?

[shipwreck]

Jesus, less film making (the so called "15 minutes of fame", the disease of the modern age), more packeting!

[EyeCandy]

it's still very much a locked console because no one wants to put the effort for anything but producing proofs of concept

You obviously don't understand the difference between developer and hacker. While one can be both, a hacker's primary goals are learning and challenging themselves, so once they get in, goal accomplished. Close the hole and they'll start again. It's developers that make content. Without full RSX access what do you expect? A new Tetris clone? Ports of 1980's-1990's games? Development is more attractive on PSP/Wii due to GPU access and on 360 (for a small fee) due to M$ support for indie devs.

Give the developers a legitimate(not under a very restrictive NDA + a cost of thousands of $$$) path and they will take and then people would see what the PS3 is capable of besides just games. You want it to do everything Sony? A legit brew path does just that, because if it doesn't do it some will make, "an app for that".
(P.S. Think there would be so many iOS apps if the iPhone hadn't been jailbroken?)

[Quarterquack]

Aside from your obvious attempt at getting a reaction out of me ... how many of the things I listed in my previous post require any development? Actually, piracy requires development. The other things I mentioned (+ aok's SACD mention) are all the work of a hacker/extractor. I know the difference very well, thank you very much.

But that's irrelevant. I don't for a second believe that you were trying to educate me over anything.

P.S. Notice the quotation marks around hackers. I don't actually think of them as hackers at all, more like code junkies. They had the way paved for them. :whistling

[EyeCandy]

It wasn't about a reaction. While I believed and still do you understood the difference between the two, many don't.(While directed at you, it was just as much directed at everyone else.) I even agree with you to an extent. If Sony hadn't taken anything away they originally gave me at time of purchase, I would have the same opinion as you as to GeoHot releasing what he did and how he did it. If they had given us a path for Homebrew, this would be a completely different conversation. Take away my rights and I'll take them back.

Second, as long as it remains "closed" you won't see anything worthwhile from the brew scene. It has to be Opened before that can happen and that's in it's infancy. Once we have either full CFW w/RSX access or if Sony gives us Linuxw/RSX access you will see the flood gates open, check out XLIG (Microsoft provides a legit path), Droid (it was open from the start), PSP (It's cracked wide open already), Wii(Also wide open). Simply put closed = no innovation(by anyone without a ton of $$$, hardware, and a license) and no brew. Sony with Linux gave us a promise of Openness(Linux itself is open), but when more was sought, they bricked the door up completely rather than just fixing the lock. Why? Because they didn't want to pay to support it any more. Any public company's motivation(whether they are doing what's right or not) is money. To think otherwise is to be a fool.

The term Hacker has a stigma associated with it. I also agree "code junkie" would be a better term("junkie" has a stigma also, but for many code can be an addiction :P, but not necessarily a bad one), or "knowledge seeker" or "knowledge tester". It's about the challenge.


"how many of the things I listed in my previous post require any development?"
Piracy takes reverse engineering of what was meant to make it secure which is development done in reverse before any development of tools, etc... can be done, but in my opinion it's part of the "development" process as is researching for making a new game without a single line of code written.

BTW, I put development in quotes as I'd like to know your definition of that. Writing code? Something else? Something more? (My equivalent would be "Digital Engineer" as sometimes creating something new requires you understand how something works to start with which implies engineering.)

[huserou]

sony loses in the public relations.
the new Micro$oft...

very sory that geohot abandon the sue and agree to compromise agreement.

[shipwreck]

The Sony MELTDOWN.

Oh yes, they deserve everything they get and then some. Bleed fuckers, bleed!

[megabyteme]

The Sony MELTDOWN.

Oh yes, they deserve everything they get and then some. Bleed fuckers, bleed!

:happy:

I still have not had time (attention span) necessary to debate this with you, Rings. I have only made a few scattered posts recently regarding this in the News section. Others have made most of my points already. In short, consumers buy products based on their interests. Hackers break security features on these for interest, notoriety, politics, spite, and (occasionally) money.

My earlier comments regarding Sony products are true. The vast majority of them sold are mid-fi, made-for-the-masses consumables. Crack open a Lexicon surround sound processor, or a Bryston amp, or B&W speakers and you will immediately see the difference in design, function, craftsmanship- all elegant. All ahead of their time. All (except the SS processor) holding a good portion of their value. These things are meant to be repaired (if EVER necessary) rather than disposed of after a few years.

Sony does develop their BRAND- a marketing tool, as I said, by creating rarely-purchased, "signature" products in order to maintain an image that all of their products are of high quality. The PS3, in itself, is not junk. Unfortunately, the company is willing to completely disable it, and destroy paid-for features, along with creating root kits, and putting itself above the consumers' rights to enjoy their purchases as they see fit.

Sony is dangerous because they have the resources to make industry-standard laws that fuck the consumer. They place themselves, deservingly so, in the cross-hairs of consumer-rights champions (regardless of their personal gains- which could be varied, as I mentioned at the beginning f this post). Since this is a war, of sorts, over electronic freedoms, and the rights of the consumers, I chose those who offer me MORE choices (whether, or not I decide to take advantage of these is then up to me), than the ever-restricted ones offered by HUGE, anti-consumer corporations.

Who wants to fight with DRM on items they pay for? Who wants limited functionality on these items that, again, have been paid for? Certainly not me.

[mjmacky]

I buy music off Zune now because it's quick, easy, and DRM-free. I can't say the same about their videos. They are restricted (DRM), a little overpriced, and slow to download (clocking at 600 kB/s or 4.8 Mbps) compared to pirated versions (which I can grab at nearly 40 Mbps). Now I know how to remove DRM from Zune videos, but I hate going through all that effort just for myself. The point I'm making is if you treat the consumer right, even lowly pirates like myself will reward you with cash and praises. Tell me how Sony has been rewarding there customers, especially in the context of deterring piracy and their current methods. Even if there was a DRM free Sony marketplace, I wouldn't be spending a dime there. MS has not been pissing me off lately, so I feel comfortable spending money with them. Sony loses more than they gain, and everything that's been going on seems well deserved. I sort of kind of feel bad for the customers, but then again, they made that decision...

[TONiC]

I've been following the story closely, and IMO, they do deserve it. Sony are one of the world's biggest corporations... they knew full-well that it is legal for people to modify their systems, and they knew full-well that forcing an update to remove Other OS breaks their side of the consumer agreement. They just figure that they could pay off a politician, hire better lawyers, and ultimately keep the free-market in a more powerful position than the opinion of the people. That's what they didn't account for; if you assume youre system is 100% fool-proof, then you aren't going to make much attempt in improving it - but ofcourse the opinion of the people rules; those hackers deserve massive kudos - DDoS was going to get the cause no-where if the facts in that IRC log are correct [anti ddos software upto 150gbit/s], and instead chose to hack into PSN servers, and by holding PSN clientel details ransom, they have Sony by the balls within every continent. If it is shown Sony did not put in place adequate protection against users details they face more costs in damages imposed by the government than any DDoS disrupting their service. And if it doesn't, the shit storm continues.

[OlegL]

I don't know much about Sony's proper or improper behavior, so I'll just repeat what I said before: I enjoy the things that I bought from them... I bought some stuff from the PSN, and even though those hackers may have obtained my personal info, they didn't hack into my banking account because so far, I didn't notice any unauthorized charges coming from my banking account.

[megabyteme]

How about you leave these grow'd up discussions for the grow'd ups, Oleg?

[OlegL]

I guess I should follow your advice; I don't know much about Sony's ethics.

[shipwreck]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5878345/gyqHh.jpg

:D

[megabyteme]

:lol: , but only because PSN doesn't have had my credit card numbers.

[anon]

:lol: , but only because PSN doesn't have had my credit card numbers.

Doesn't had? :ermm:

[megabyteme]

:lol: , but only because PSN doesn't have had my credit card numbers.

Doesn't had? :ermm:

Yeah, I know. Weak Engrish, but I wasn't going to give them credit for having something that they lost. :P So, yeah, they "had" them.

[anon]

Yeah, I know. Weak Engrish

Fear not, after seeing college students write things like "he didn't went" nothing surprises me anymore. :D

[iLOVENZB]

Was it Anonymous or GeoHot that h4x3d into Sony's unencrypted database? :unsure:

Also, what on earth has this go to do with p2p?

[EyeCandy]

Was it Anonymous or GeoHot that h4x3d into Sony's unencrypted database? :unsure:

Neither


Also, what on earth has this go to do with p2p?

I originally posted this thread, as you can see by the front page, we cover news topics, that have nothing to do with P2P, and inquired why this wasn't front page news.

[megabyteme]

I say anything that involves issues surrounding digital media are VERY much on-topic. Without looking at the digital media, all we are left with are trackers, levels, and BT politics. :snoring:

These issues should be FAR more important to people sharing media than any of these often over-emphasized ancillary issues (trackers & stuff). It should be about what you do with the media- not how you get into sites. People sharing their experiences, and common interests regarding the movies, music, etc. will always be more interesting, and create a better community than one (as it has become) where people just want to get invited.

That said, Sony limiting our ability to make use of our equipment, and our media is a battle-line issue. Imagine how out of control these corps would get if there were not pro-consumer stands made over the years. They need to get kicked in the nuts every once in a while to remind them that consumers are in control- not them.

[Quarterquack]

Doesn't had? :ermm:

Yeah, I know. Weak Engrish, but I wasn't going to give them credit for having something that they lost. :P So, yeah, they "had" them.

Technically the hackers only made a copy of the database, the original wasn't stolen or lost, it's still intact.
Oh, the tenets of piracy and how they apply to even the most ironic of situations.

[megabyteme]

Thank you for unshared. I wish you success.

I wish you a quick disablement by a speeding truck

fixed. :happy:

[Skiz]

Nothing to do with Bittorrent. Moved to Games.

[mjmacky]

I wish you a quick disablement by a speeding truck

fixed. :happy:

but you've got your threads all twisted, you're braiding dude

[megabyteme]

How's that, macky? You may not know him, but he is a perpetual ban-ee who creates pointless accounts only to say gibberish, and have them deleted in seconds. He's often referred to as J-Dye, but he's had over 500 accounts here.

Yes, a speeding truck colliding with his spinal column, leaving his body a useless pulp (one matching his "mind"), would be a just occurrence. :happy:

[anon]

How's that, macky? You may not know him, but he is a perpetual ban-ee who creates pointless accounts only to say gibberish, and have them deleted in seconds. He's often referred to as J-Dye, but he's had over 500 accounts here.

secmpromo? That's one of those stupid spambots. J-Dye did break the world record with his half a thousand dupes, though. :hooray:


Yes, a speeding truck colliding with his spinal column, leaving his body a useless pulp (one matching his "mind"), would be a just occurrence. :happy:

What about letting one of those gigabit seedboxes? ringhunter had a close encounter with one of those recently, if I remember well...

[mjmacky]

How's that, macky? You may not know him, but he is a perpetual ban-ee who creates pointless accounts only to say gibberish, and have them deleted in seconds. He's often referred to as J-Dye, but he's had over 500 accounts here.

Yes, a speeding truck colliding with his spinal column, leaving his body a useless pulp (one matching his "mind"), would be a just occurrence. :happy:

No no sorry that was my fault. I thought the quoted exchange occurred on a different thread, and you put it in this thread by accident (which is why I said you got your threads twisted). What actually happened was that my reply also got deleted, and I wasn't notified of that. So I was just confused.

[megabyteme]

How's that, macky? You may not know him, but he is a perpetual ban-ee who creates pointless accounts only to say gibberish, and have them deleted in seconds. He's often referred to as J-Dye, but he's had over 500 accounts here.

Yes, a speeding truck colliding with his spinal column, leaving his body a useless pulp (one matching his "mind"), would be a just occurrence. :happy:

No no sorry that was my fault. I thought the quoted exchange occurred on a different thread, and you put it in this thread by accident (which is why I said you got your threads twisted). What actually happened was that my reply also got deleted, and I wasn't notified of that. So I was just confused.

Deleted posts are obnoxious. Been there, know how awkward the situation becomes. :pinch:

[iLOVENZB]

Derpy-doo:

http://filesharingtalk.com/content/970-Sony-says-Anonymous-set-stage-for-data-theft

I'm a psychic

[mjmacky]

weak, so weak... what's the emoticon for waving your hand side to side in front of your face?

[iLOVENZB]

:ghey:

I hope you weren't referring to my post queer.

[mjmacky]

:ghey:

I hope you weren't referring to my post queer.

No, I was referring to Sony tactics. What's up with the preemptive queer-by

[iLOVENZB]

Why else would you want a queer emoticon? :.ghey:

[mjmacky]

No I wasn't talking about ghey, but that could apply

the one I was thinking of is the "no, thanks" expression: # 3 at this link (http://www.lov-e.com/RLSArticlesfolder/JBL4.html)

[anon]

No I wasn't talking about ghey, but that could apply

the one I was thinking of is the "no, thanks" expression: # 3 at this link (http://www.lov-e.com/RLSArticlesfolder/JBL4.html)

I think the :wave:-smiley is the closest you can get to that.

[mjmacky]

I looked, tried to find a "pew, that stinks" wave which would have been close enough