NZB posting safety

[toastysoul]

I uploaded something to usenet the other day. Hard to get, and I figured since I had to get it from another network (only after wasting GB of bandwidth getting an unrepairable file mind you), I'd just go ahead and reupload it to usenet so other UN users don't have a hard time, or can't get it at all. The next day I saw the NZB collection for it posted here by someone else. (I don't have any hard feelings about it either) However, I'd like to post up the NZBs myself since I've gone through some effort to get it elsewhere. Problem is, safety is a big concern these days. It's risky just downloading the material sometimes. Posting the NZBs to FST could represent a big concern if some media company got a hard on for people uploading their content. Uploading the NZBs myself might ruin the anonymity of the process, particularly if the forum gets compromised at a future date.

I wanted some thoughts from other uploaders, anon or otherwise on how this is handled. FWIW, I'm not taking credit for the rips, I try to keep the scene names exactly the same if I still have them when I goto reupload. It would be nice though for others to know who is sharing content. Then, maybe when I need something, someone else would be more likely to contribute to help me.

Thanks.

[jefffisher]

i upload stuff all the time, i've always let auto indexers and other people do the nzb work.
but nzb's don't have any personally identifiable data just links the the files on usenet. so i couldn't possibly see a problem with it. the only thing they'd have is your name here so unless this website gets hacked there is no way for them to get any more data like your ip address.

[mjmacky]

Plus when you post the NZB here, it has nothing to do with posting to newsgroups in general. Going after manual indexers would be completely pointless. There is an off chance that whoever put the NZB here, also happened to be the one who posted it to a newsgroup, and I think that's what you're talking about, but there's no possible way to ever connect the two (other than speculation). If that's what you're most worried about, I just wouldn't do that exclusively.

Another note, I don't know how the usual nzb posters would feel about this, but if there's a newsgroup post you want indexed here, but don't want to do it yourself (for purposes of anonymity), you could probably just send a pm to someone who typically posts the NZBs. I'll say you can always PM me, well once you have PM privileges, and I'll do it. It's really quick and easy, so no big effort at all. I'd post more but the usual guys are on the ball with it most the time. I only post what's missed of some of the shows/movies I like.

[toastysoul]

There is some talk about UNS attaching an encrypted, but unique account hash to uploads; even more "rumors" that it contains your IP in there as well. Linking myself to even one post, could potentially give away a lot. It's the most paranoid of delusions, I know, but watching what's going on in the hurt locker case gives me great concern. Forces are quickly aligning against us, and I'd rather not get caught up in it all.

Have any of you heard about the former RIAA lobbiest, turned Federal Judge? They (RIAA/MPAA/USCG/etc) saw what happened over in the UK (ACS: Law), and I imagine, to keep that from happening over here, funded a campaign to have a compliant judge installed into the Federal District court system. Who upon being installed, suddenly and magically lands the single largest file sharing case ever, and then promptly moves it forward with all due haste. The same judge, then dismisses 119 defendants motions, claiming that unless the John Does identify themselves, they can't address the court at all.

This is scary stuff. 1-2 years ago, I would have just posted this stuff up without a thought; now, I dunno. I don't want it to come back and bite me in the ass another 2 years from now.

I'm still interested in what others think. Please offer an opinion on this issue.

[mjmacky]

I'm to understand we're off the topic about NZB collections being indexed here then?

So about your point, from what I gather the conventional wisdom is to use a Block account to post, and preferably an Astraweb block account. I just can't say it myself with certainty

[B18C5]

I'm a bit paranoid myself but, it's looking like the chance to be a target of these "john doe" lawsuits is about as likely as getting struck by lightning. It's in the server's best interest not to help in these cases too so, it's very possible the hashs are exactly what they claim to be. A method of tagging spammers with no way to track it back to you personally. If I was posting though, I'd probably post to a server that didn't add these tags. That means no posting through Giga or UNS.

[nntpjunkie]

There is some talk about UNS attaching an encrypted, but unique account hash to uploads; even more "rumors" that it contains your IP in there as well.
I'm still interested in what others think. Please offer an opinion on this issue.

Simply stated these rumors are just that and are not true. The proof is easily accessible with any decent news client, just look at the headers of something you post Example header stack:

Path: s03-b01.iad!npeersf02.iad.highwinds-media.com!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.media,seattle.politics
Subject: Re:_The_USA_is_dead
From: "Kirby Grant" <[email protected]>
References: <28c891b5-94e5-46d4-a72a-592b3f286ad9@f31g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <[email protected]>
Organization: Stratosphere
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:07:19 GMT
X-Newsreader: News Rover 14.1.2 (http://www.NewsRover.com)
X-No-Archive: Yes
Organization: UseNetServer - www.usenetserver.com
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Lines: 33
Xref: z alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:4038839 alt.politics.democrats:1550016 alt.politics.elections:309594 alt.politics.media:79455 seattle.politics:740155
X-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 13:07:19 UTC (s03-b01.iad)

Mystery solved, rumor dead lets move on. Of course if you want to be perfectly save the answer is to not upload at all unless of course the files you uploaded are created and owned solely by you :)

[jefffisher]

i'd like to add that even if the rumors were true that you'd get in trouble for uploading the file to usenet not uploading the nzb here.

[zot]

Maybe only the Highwinds resellers and not the Highwinds-owned companies put an ID stamp in the path field. Here is what mine looks like.

Path: s02-b22!num01.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post02.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe20.iad.POSTED!a0ac912a!not-for-mail


That 8-digit string between "POSTED!" and "not-for-mail" appeared on every post I made from that account. That was from a Usenet-News.net account (when UN resold HW) Different Usenet-News accounts had different text strings.

I don't know what information that code contained, what it was used for, or why it was put there, but it certainly worked as a unique identifier. All my posts made from that account contained that "fingerprint".

... as for posting safety, it's quite possible any of us could get nailed - big time. But so far usenet posters have been left alone. It's ironic that posting copyrighted files onto usenet has been a much safer activity than downloading copyrighted files from Kazaa, Limewire, and Bittorrent.

What I've done for high-risk stuff is keep a separate posting-only block account paid for with a prepaid Visa "gift card" (bought wearing sunglasses and a cap pulled way down***) and posted while on a public wi-fi network (With or without a VPN) Usenet-News.net logs every IP address connected from (perhaps forever?) so it's important to only connect to this account from anonymous connections.

Probably an extreme case of paranoid overkill -- unless you're early-leaking the next Star Wars.

*** Major chain stores like Wal-Mart take photographs at every purchase from those little black plastic spheres hanging from the ceiling.

[nntpjunkie]

@zot - The path statement posted below:

Path: s03-b01.iad!npeersf02.iad.highwinds-media.com!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!not-for-mail

Stands on it's own - This was taken from a real post yesterday and as you can see there is no unique identifier or hash included, please don't mislead others who may not be as Usenet savvy into thinking that this is the case. Just because a reseller used to attach a sting of unknown significance by your own admission to your posts, that does not mean that you were being tracked - it could have been something else entirely. Anyway the important thing is to look at what you see in the usenet article headers today not ten years ago.

As a side note, I find that posting from our boat out in the middle of the lake over 3g is the safest place to upload :) j/k - actually maybe it would be :D

[zot]

@nntpjunkie:

We seem to disagree a lot, and it's usually over the same subject -- Highwinds. ;)

My accounts at Usenet-News were inserting 8-digit ID-stamps into my posts 'path' field when the service used Highwinds last year, and (at least as of last month) another Highwinds reseller, Newsgroup Direct, also inserts 8-digit ID-stamp into posts in identical fashion.

I am sure that Highwinds is the party responsible for this, rather than each individual reseller. I assume that posts made through other Highwinds resellers such as NewsDemon also have these ID-stamps in the path field.

I accept that Highwinds-owned labels such as Usenetserver and Newshosting --unlike independent resellers of Highwinds service-- might not insert those ID-stamps in users posts.

But it's not always a bad thing. Did you ever notice newsgroup text posts that start with ---BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE--- ? There's a reason for that....

Although copyright-violators might consider Highwinds' mandatory ID-stamps to be a grave security threat, I'm sure that many people would gladly welcome the idea of having every post "watermarked" with their identity - most notably those embroiled in adversarial discussions against bitter enemies.

I've read that years ago the "Church" of Scientology employed people to forge the identities of prominent critics posting to alt.religion.scientology, prompting many of these 'sporgery' victims to digitally sign all their posts with an encryption key. Had they posted through a Highwinds reseller, there would be no need to do this, as it would be technically impossible for Highwinds' ID-stamp (or anything else in the 'path' field) to be forged by another user.

[toastysoul]

I didn't mean to start a flame war, only bring up the issue to get some idea of my footing before I take a swing. I guess the old adages YMMV & CYA still hold true even in this.

Thank you for taking the time to post your experiences & thoughts regarding this most important issue. Were it not for people like you guys uploading stuff to begin with, none of us would have any thing to download. Cheers.

[OldIronTits]

... as for posting safety, it's quite possible any of us could get nailed - big time. But so far usenet posters have been left alone. It's ironic that posting copyrighted files onto usenet has been a much safer activity than downloading copyrighted files from Kazaa, Limewire, and Bittorrent.

You are misinformed. No one has ever been prosecuted for downloading copyrighted files from the Gnutella network (Kazaa, Limewire, etc).

[mjmacky]

... as for posting safety, it's quite possible any of us could get nailed - big time. But so far usenet posters have been left alone. It's ironic that posting copyrighted files onto usenet has been a much safer activity than downloading copyrighted files from Kazaa, Limewire, and Bittorrent.

You are misinformed. No one has ever been prosecuted for downloading copyrighted files from the Gnutella network (Kazaa, Limewire, etc).

Not a single person? Fact checking underrated
http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/student-joel-tenenbaum-fined-675-000-illegal-kazaa-downloads
http://www.stellarbay.com/news/?p=52

[nntpjunkie]

@nntpjunkie:

We seem to disagree a lot, and it's usually over the same subject -- Highwinds. ;)

I accept that Highwinds-owned labels such as Usenetserver and Newshosting --unlike independent resellers of Highwinds service-- might not insert those ID-stamps in users posts.

But it's not always a bad thing. Did you ever notice newsgroup text posts that start with ---BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE--- ? There's a reason for that....

Although copyright-violators might consider Highwinds' mandatory ID-stamps to be a grave security threat, I'm sure that many people would gladly welcome the idea of having every post "watermarked" with their identity - most notably those embroiled in adversarial discussions against bitter enemies.

I've read that years ago the "Church" of Scientology employed people to forge the identities of prominent critics posting to alt.religion.scientology, prompting many of these 'sporgery' victims to digitally sign all their posts with an encryption key. Had they posted through a Highwinds reseller, there would be no need to do this, as it would be technically impossible for Highwinds' ID-stamp (or anything else in the 'path' field) to be forged by another user.

@zot That is an awesome point and in this case I couldn't agree more :) There is certainly the possibility of a unique post ID at the system level, but there are other possibilities to. The unique ID can be being generated by the user's posting client - for example Camelsystem Powerpost has a unique domain ID field in the headers settings to be attached to every post that you upload. I guess this would be useful for internal organization tracking or for external organization awareness.. That certainly would have been useful in the Scientology fiasco :D

[cola]

@nntpjunkie:
I've read that years ago the "Church" of Scientology employed people to forge the identities of prominent critics posting to alt.religion.scientology, prompting many of these 'sporgery' victims to digitally sign all their posts with an encryption key. Had they posted through a Highwinds reseller, there would be no need to do this, as it would be technically impossible for Highwinds' ID-stamp (or anything else in the 'path' field) to be forged by another user.

I don't think thats how X-Trace works. If 2 people are posting using the same name/email/whatever from Highwinds, how do you know who is who? Also, since X-Trace changes for each post, how are you parsing it so you know who is who?

[zot]

@cola

The Highwinds ID-stamp I was talking about has nothing to do with x-trace. Different issue entirely. Did you read my post on the first page?

[cola]

Its highly dependent on the reseller, some ISPs (sometimes usenetserver) use 00000000 and some ISPs won't get one at all. Easynews, newsguy, usenetserver, newshosting, ect won't get one either. Perhaps its the certain tiers.