Serious Question

[J'Pol]

If you had a loved one, or a relative who was terminally ill and suffering, with no prospect of recovery. Who had little or no quality of life left.

Would you be willing to give the instruction or the authority for the Doctors to assist their passing. No matter what the law says, Doctors do this. Not just passively by removing life support systems, but actively by administering the appropriate level of drugs.

I am not interested in the legality of the situation. That is a matter for lawyers to decide. I am interested in 2 things.

1. Do you think that it is acceptable, in certain circumstances to do this.

2. If so, would you be willing to be the person who made the decision.

My answer to both questions is yes.

[MetroStars]

i say yes 2 both

[fugley]

Would take a brave and selfless person to do it.

If I found myself capeable - I reckon I would. Big test though! :blink:

[internet.news]

1. No

2. Yes

[the_faceman]

Yes to both.

[3rd gen noob]

yes to both

[lynx]

Yes on both counts.

And I'm pretty sure I've seen it happen.
I can't think of any other reason to give morphine to someone who is unconcious.

[Virtualbody1234]

Yes to both.

[Yogi]

Yes
Yes
Yogi

[Rat Faced]

Yes and Yes..

However as its never happened, God forbid, I only hope i'd be strong enough to make that decison...which i do believe is the correct one. :(

[MediaSlayer]

That's a very, very difficult question. On the one hand, compassion for human life is a factor. On the other, the question arises "are we playing God by doing things like that? Is it right to take away that which you did not create?". Finally the person's wishes must be considered too. Sometimes people make specific request for that very thing to happen or not to happen. I consider myself a survivor, so I guess I would request not to be assisted in that way no matter if I was in pain or not. Anyway, it's a hell of a decision for any person to make. I don't know what I would do.

[bigboab]

Yes on both counts.

[scribblec]

you people might say yes now

but if you were really in this situation do you really think you will be thinking like this?

[3rd gen noob]

Originally posted by scribblec@16 November 2003 - 00:25
you people might say yes now

but if you were really in this situation do you really think you will be thinking like this?
i'd think of how badly the person i loved was suffering
if i knew there was no chance they'd 'come back' then i know i could give the instruction without the burden of guilt

this situation has happened close to me before
the right decision was made then

[Lamsey]

Yes and yes - but only if there was absolutely zero probability of them recovering.

It would still wrench my guts out to do it though :(

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by scribblec@16 November 2003 - 01:25
you people might say yes now

but if you were really in this situation do you really think you will be thinking like this?
Yes

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Yes I would...both, I've seen deterioration, and would hope someone would do the same for me, if you have no quality of life what is the point in living?

Jonno B)

[DarthInsinuate]

1. Yes

2. it should be the person in subject themself who makes the decision if their life is worth continuing, if they think it isn't then yes - unless they aren't in the position to decide, then i'm not sure, too hard to imagine

[the_faceman]

i've already said yes and yes earlier, but thought i'd add this.

i've told those closest to me before that if i'm in a condition that i'm in pain or become mentally and physically disabled to a point where i don't have any quality of life that they should "ease my passage".

I've also told them that if i'm ever in a coma then they should give me at around 2 months to try and snap out of it. If there seems to be no lights on then they should go ahead and help me find the exit door. I wouldn't want to put them through waiting for the unlikely any longer than that.

Just in thinking about it, i'd like the doctors to take my sperm (if healthy of course), to help someone who can't have kids, in the sense that i'd like a part of me to live on in some way. (this is of course, if i haven't married and had kids of my own at this point.)

The_Faceman (still alive and kicking)

[NikkiD]

Yes to both.

I watched my grandfather die of throat cancer about 5 years ago, the tumor was in such a spot that he could no longer eat and swallow and he was 92 years old, so surgery was out of the question. He was a stubborn man and kept removing the IV from his arm when the nurses weren't around, so he didn't really have anything to combat the pain, or to nourish his body. Basically, he starved to death.

My mother and her siblings, had the power to put an end to this and did not. For that I will never forgive them.

How is it that when it comes to our pets we can do the humane thing and end their pain and suffering but people find it wrong with it's a human being?

[j2k4]

My ex-father-in-law was dying of cancer in the hospital.

The doctors approached me with (what has become) the standard question having to do with "heroic measures" in order to keep him alive.

At this point he had suffered 2 post-op strokes and could only communicate by squeezing my hand.

I asked him-he signaled to me that, no, he didn't want any heroic measures.

It took me two hours to overcome my own reluctance and tell the doctors.

Left to my own devices, I cannot honestly say, in a hard and fast way, just what I would do.

[lynx]

Originally posted by 3rd gen noob+16 November 2003 - 00:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3rd gen noob @ 16 November 2003 - 00:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-scribblec@16 November 2003 - 00:25
you people might say yes now

but if you were really in this situation do you really think you will be thinking like this?
i&#39;d think of how badly the person i loved was suffering
if i knew there was no chance they&#39;d &#39;come back&#39; then i know i could give the instruction without the burden of guilt

this situation has happened close to me before
the right decision was made then [/b][/quote]
This is exactly the position I was in about 15 years ago with my mother. We had actually discussed what we would like to happen in this sort of situation.
After a number of major operations (over several years) to replace her arthritic joints, she finally came home and was able to walk without sticks and more importantly without intense pain.

The following morning she had a major stroke (mainly caused I believe by the steroids used to treat her arthritis). She was in very a bad state after this. Over the next couple of months she deteriorated, suffering more strokes, and despite knowing her wishes I was unable to do anything.

The hospital she was then sent to had (it has now closed) very few discharged patients. I have no way of knowing that they actively used drugs in the way I suggested earlier, but I suspect that was the case, and if so I am grateful to them for relieving her suffering.

[cowswithguns]

Yes to both in theory but in practice who knows....I hope I would have the courage to be able to make that decision.

As Nikkid pointed out, we have no hesitation in ending the suffering of our pets, why should we have such difficulty with a human loved one.

[silent VI]

no... i could never ever have anything to do with the death of a loved 1

[lynx]

Originally posted by DrunkeNStylE@16 November 2003 - 02:57
no... i could never ever have anything to do with the death of a loved 1
You say that, and I respect your decision.

But have you ever been in the position of watching a loved one suffering so much that it is breaking your heart? It might change your mind.

[3rd gen noob]

Originally posted by lynx+16 November 2003 - 03:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 16 November 2003 - 03:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DrunkeNStylE@16 November 2003 - 02:57
no... i could never ever have anything to do with the death of a loved 1
You say that, and I respect your decision.

But have you ever been in the position of watching a loved one suffering so much that it is breaking your heart? It might change your mind. [/b][/quote]
that was what i was thinking but didn&#39;t want to post

[UKMan]

I have absolutely no idea.

[j2k4]

I know that in my instance I felt better for having been able to determine my father-in-law wished to die, but if he hadn&#39;t been able to communicate this?

BTW-I find equating humans and animals a bit off-putting, but I&#39;m sure that is due to my religious beliefs. ;)

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Realistically speaking not one of us could possibly say Yes or No unless we have or will be in that actual possition of...........Here&#39;s the switch.....up is off&#33;

We can all say "Yeah I would do that" like when talking about rescuing someone, until you have actually been in that moment you can not possibly know what you would do.

Jonno B)

[UKMan]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@16 November 2003 - 04:27
Realistically speaking not one of us could possibly say Yes or No unless we have or will be in that actual possition of...........Here&#39;s the switch.....up is off&#33;

We can all say "Yeah I would do that" like when talking about rescuing someone, until you have actually been in that moment you can not possibly know what you would do.

Jonno B)
Thats the point i was making - i have no idea, never been in that situation. I was present when i had one of my pets put to sleep - held him whilst the needle was put in and watched him de. It was horrific and i cried. God knows how i would react in a situation with a friend or family member.

I just honestly dont know.

Peace
UKMan

[sevillano]

My gran mother died 1 year ago after a long period of paralysis and brain problems, so I have think a lot about that issue. I don&#39;t know for question 2, but for question one, I was thinking that all depends of what you get after your death. Maybe you gonna suffer more once dead. I&#39;m not talking about religion or anything like that.
Cos you can tell me everything you want, but you don&#39;t what happens once dead. I &#39;m sorry if I sound rude.

But for sure it would be crual to keep someone alive if their is something better "on the other side".

This is just a metaphisical issue

[AussieSheila]

:huh: A good friend of mine died of cancer 3 years ago aged 39. His 11 year old daughter stayed with me when he first started his treatment 800 km&#39;s away from home. After he died his little girl said to me "Dad was thrashing around and the nurse gave him a needle and he died."

We told her not to say it in quite that way.

B)

I find it difficult to differentiate between people and pets, I love them all til it hurts, and hate to make the decision with either, but I certainly have with pets (a dog who could no longer walk and had an enormous inoperable tumour, he was 14, and a pony with tetanus). I couldn&#39;t see them suffer any more, and I hope I&#39;m not left to suffer some ignoble end either.

When my grandmother was dying, a decision was made to take her off the respirator and see if she could manage on her own. We were told the day before. I remember waking up that day, feeling good for about 1 second and then remembering what they were going to do to my beloved Nan and sinking into the deepest despair, how could I go to the hospital and watch the rock in my life die? As it happened they decided she wouldn&#39;t survive it, they left her on and she died naturally the next day.

[protak]

Originally posted by MediaSlayer@15 November 2003 - 23:00
That&#39;s a very, very difficult question. On the one hand, compassion for human life is a factor. On the other, the question arises "are we playing God by doing things like that? Is it right to take away that which you did not create?". Finally the person&#39;s wishes must be considered too. Sometimes people make specific request for that very thing to happen or not to happen. I consider myself a survivor, so I guess I would request not to be assisted in that way no matter if I was in pain or not. Anyway, it&#39;s a hell of a decision for any person to make. I don&#39;t know what I would do.
That&#39;s a tough question J&#39;Pol..But I have to agree with M.S. on this one....
Having lost my Dad in May, to bone cancer, I know I could not make the decision, and we had him at home, with liquid dilaudid, being administered by the family, and logged. The Doctor in a round about way, let us know that, more was O.K. so to speak. But my brother&#39;s and I talked about, what was mentioned by the Doctor.
In the end,(this may sound greedy) I would rather have spent the last month&#39;s, with my father, than to say, "Let&#39;s put him out of his missery", even though he was incapacitated. God forbid this should ever happen, to one of my children, because I seriously think, I would die of a broken heart. I know we made the wright decision, so I guess no and no would be my answer.

[AussieSheila]

:( Yeah Tim, greedy or not, I wanted more time.

[protak]

Originally posted by AussieSheila@16 November 2003 - 10:12
:(&nbsp; Yeah Tim, greedy or not, I wanted more time.
For sure hun, lifes to short to begin with, never mind when your Knockin on heaven&#39;s door. :&#39;(