Vegetarianism

[J'Pol]

Is this the next evolution of humanity ?

Have we evolved beyond our need to consume other living creatures in order to survive. If so, do we continue to kill and consume merely because we enjoy it.

Are we in fact just slaves to our more base instincts, when we could continue to thrive, without murdering other animals for our own survival.

Or has our conscience evolved faster than our physiology. In which case we feel bad about living on the flesh of other creatures, whilst still physically needing to consume them.

[Smith]

hippy <_<

[bigboab]

Veggie Burger anybody? ;)

[TheDave]

Originally posted by bigboab@19 November 2003 - 00:06
Veggie Burger anybody? ;)
pah&#33;&#33;

if you you feel the need to eat a burger eat a burger, hippy

[Smith]

:lol: lol, yesterday i felt real mean and i had strak 4 lunch, so i found my vegitarian friend and ate slabs of juicy steak right infront of her.

[Evil Gemini]

I love meat and i will always eat meat.

As someone else said on this forum



i am a being that has evolved over a million years to eat meat.


I dont feel bad one little bit and i could&#39;nt care less that animals are being "murdered" for their meat.

If you want to be pale looking and have to take iron shots all the time, do so but i am sick of this topic coming up :angry:

[Him]

i agree, i am an omnivore, not a herbivore and it is my right to eat meat, just waiting for my brew to turn up and voice his opinions.

[TheDave]

Originally posted by neattairoski@19 November 2003 - 00:13
I love meat and i will always eat meat.

As someone else said on this forum



i am a being that has evolved over a million years to eat meat.


I dont feel bad one little bit and i could&#39;nt care less that animals are being "murdered" for their meat.

If you want to be pale looking and have to take iron shots all the time, do so but i am sick of this topic coming up :angry:
that was me after JP called me a cow, or grass or something like that

[Darth Sushi]

http://www.qotsa.freeserve.co.uk/tigerbunny.jpg Sorry, I don&#39;t want to evolve into this. I&#39;ll have a Big Mac, large fries, and a diet coke, please.

[bigboab]

Originally posted by Darth Sushi@19 November 2003 - 00:22
http://www.qotsa.freeserve.co.uk/tigerbunny.jpg Sorry, I don&#39;t want to evolve into this. I&#39;ll have a Big Mac, large fries, and a diet coke, please.
Are you sure Darth. Think of the sex life. :lol:

[Darth Sushi]

Originally posted by bigboab@19 November 2003 - 01:23
Are you sure Darth. Think of the sex life. :lol:
Since you put it that way, I&#39;ll take a Veggie Burger, please. :P

[bigboab]

I am sitting here eating a roast beef sandwich and mustard. Do I feel guilty? Yes. Those poor little mustard spores will never be able to grow up. Woe is me, I will have to stop(There is a joke in there somewhere :D ).

[Evil Gemini]

I am eating toasted sandwiches with roast beef, eggs and cheese. Its so damn nice you should try it.


I am also eating an apple. Man i feel so bad for the apple. That was a living thing to. :(

The apple didnt even have a chance when i was plucked from the tree.

OMG&#33;&#33; i am breathing in air that could contain microscopic organisms :o the poor things are dying :o

[bigboab]

Originally posted by neattairoski@19 November 2003 - 01:01
I am eating toasted sandwiches with roast beef, eggs and cheese. Its so damn nice you should try it.


I am also eating an apple. Man i feel so bad for the apple. That was a living thing to. :(

The apple didnt even have a chance when i was plucked from the tree.

OMG&#33;&#33; i am breathing in air that could contain microscopic organisms :o the poor things are dying :o
Leave off the apple side of this. That is used to produce a liquid for purely medicinal purposes. :lol:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by neattairoski@19 November 2003 - 02:01
I am eating toasted sandwiches with roast beef, eggs and cheese. Its so damn nice you should try it.


I am also eating an apple. Man i feel so bad for the apple. That was a living thing to. :(

The apple didnt even have a chance when i was plucked from the tree.

OMG&#33;&#33; i am breathing in air that could contain microscopic organisms :o the poor things are dying :o
Are you being sarcastic at all.

[Evil Gemini]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+19 November 2003 - 02:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 19 November 2003 - 02:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-neattairoski@19 November 2003 - 02:01
I am eating toasted sandwiches with roast beef, eggs and cheese. Its so damn nice you should try it.


I am also eating an apple. Man i feel so bad for the apple. That was a living thing to.&nbsp; :(

The apple didnt even have a chance when i was plucked from the tree.

OMG&#33;&#33; i am breathing in air that could contain microscopic organisms&nbsp; :o the poor things are dying&nbsp; :o
Are you being sarcastic at all. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[UKMan]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@19 November 2003 - 01:03
1: Is this the next evolution of humanity ?

2: Have we evolved beyond our need to consume other living creatures in order to survive. If so, do we continue to kill and consume merely because we enjoy it.

3: Are we in fact just slaves to our more base instincts, when we could continue to thrive, without murdering other animals for our own survival.

4: Or has our conscience evolved faster than our physiology. In which case we feel bad about living on the flesh of other creatures, whilst still physically needing to consume them.
1: I believe we are turning full circle. I honestly believe we were veggies from the very start.

2: Its economics now - nothing to do with enjoyment. We have evolved the world around us so that now we are partially dependent upon meat.

3: Yes.

4: Some peoples consciences have woken up.

Excuse my bad attempt to answer, but someone had to do it.

Peace
UKMan

[Yogi]

I like PorterHouse Vegetarian. ;)

I posted the recipe before, so no need to repost.

Just replace the beef by a vegetarian. :P

IEatVegetariansForBreakfast-Yogi :lol:

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@19 November 2003 - 00:03
Or has our conscience evolved faster than our physiology. In which case we feel bad about living on the flesh of other creatures, whilst still physically needing to consume them.
Well, I think my existence gives you your answer. If humans physically need to consume the flesh of other living creatures, then it must be impossible for me to still be alive and healthy in mind and body, as I have never eaten any meat at all.


Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[vivitron 15]

I believe that people do, in fact, eat meat through enjoyment; however it is a misplaced enjoyment to a degree. I ate meat until a few years back; since stopping, i have found myself eating a lot more healthily-more fruit and veg and also i have discovered a love of flavours. most people refer to quorn and to vegetable burgers as "vegetarian shite", but without having sampled it.

I think that UK raises a good point about the economics of the meat industry-there are so many jobs associated with the industry, from farmers throught to butchers and even MacDonalds staff. - these people could evolve their jobs; however it would be a long and drawn out process in order to get there.


lol, yesterday i felt real mean and i had strak 4 lunch, so i found my vegitarian friend and ate slabs of juicy steak right infront of her. this probably wouldnt have bothered your friend a great deal - i know it wouldnt me; i dont like the idea of animals being slaughtered, but its a persons own choice.

[Sid Hartha]

Originally posted by Darth Sushi@19 November 2003 - 00:22
http://www.qotsa.freeserve.co.uk/tigerbunny.jpg Sorry, I don&#39;t want to evolve into this. I&#39;ll have a Big Mac, large fries, and a diet coke, please.
...so you can evolve into this:
http://www.nature.com/nsu/020218/images/fat_160.jpg
:P

[Aaron_T]

iam not a vegetarian but my father is and i still like having a veggie burger they taste gooooooood&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


i could never be a vegetarian i like chicken to much

[thewizeard]

Ok then, suppose everyone should stop eating animals, do you think it would make any difference to the environment?

Who would then look after all those millions of farm-animals? They would still have to be fed and cared for.

Anyone got any answers?

[vivitron 15]

Originally posted by nigel123@19 November 2003 - 16:28
Ok then, suppose everyone should stop eating animals, do you think it would make any difference to the environment?

Who would then look after all those millions of farm-animals? They would still have to be fed and cared for.

Anyone got any answers?
which millions of farm animals? the ones being breed to be slaughtered?

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by vivitron 15+19 November 2003 - 16:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vivitron 15 &#064; 19 November 2003 - 16:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@19 November 2003 - 16:28
Ok then, suppose everyone should stop eating animals, do you think it would make any difference to the environment?

Who would then look after all those millions of farm-animals? They would still have to be fed and cared for.

Anyone got any answers?
which millions of farm animals? the ones being breed to be slaughtered? [/b][/quote]
Yes those animals..


Edit. There have been quite a few topics concerning vegetarianism recently... I have read most of the posts
http://www.klboard.ath.cx/index.php?showto...ndpost&p=667522 (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/index.php?showtopic=82150&view=findpost&p=667522)

[hobbes]

My rule is eat what smells good.


You see there is no such thing as a "good" smell or a "bad" one, it is just how our minds are instinctively programmed. Who likes the smell of bacon in the morning? We all do because animal fat is the best source of energy out there. Our minds recognize this and tell us that it smells "good".

That is why my dog will eat the bacon. My rabbit will not eat the bacon, because it does not have the biology to deal with it. It will not refuse the meat on some moral highground, it is simply that it&#39;s brain tells it that it tastes "bad".

We all agree that feces smell "bad". Why, because it is not a source of energy. We have extracted what we can and so the mind says it smells "bad". Tell that to the dung beetle who makes a house out of poop, or the bacteria in your septic tank. They love the smell of poop.

So our senses have been programmed to respond to stimuli in a certain way and it is manifested in our brains as a perception (smells good/bad) or a feeling (pain, pleasure).

For instance, place your hand on a red hot stovetop. Notice what happens. Your hand withdraws immediately, before you even feel any pain. You look at your hand and wait for the pain to come, right? The initial withdrawl comes from specific receptors in your skin. They sense heat, this goes to your spinal cord and not your brain and makes your hand move before you conciously realize that it is being burnt. Different "pain" receptors are also stimulated that are much slower and travel to the "concious" mind. That is why the pain from a burn builds after the hand is away from the source. One is a spinal reflex (like when your doctor hits your knee with a reflex hammer), the other is a conscious perception. The reflex part saves your life by withdrawing, the pain perception part is to teach you to avoid that stimulus(a hot stove). This is called "learned aversion".

So what I am trying to point out is that the sensory input that our brain encounters is translated into something that we become conciously aware of. Based on our biology our neural hardware will tell us if something smells "good" or "bad"/ feels "good" or "bad".

So if it smells good, you should eat it because your brain is telling you that it is a good source of energy. Your mouth has the final verdict though, if it smells "good" but tastes "bad", spit it out, that wasn&#39;t meant for consumption. This is why we do not eat flowers and drink perfume.

[vivitron 15]

thats an interesting point; however i have to say that i cant stand the smell of meat...

in particular, i work in a shop inside a supermarket, and when people come in with cooked chickens on a weekend, i know they have them, cos thats all i can smell, and it disgusts me, to the pit of my stomach...whereas when i ate meat, i could never smell anything.

[Darth Sushi]

Originally posted by Sid Hartha@19 November 2003 - 16:24
...so you can evolve into this:
http://www.nature.com/nsu/020218/images/fat_160.jpg



http://web.media.mit.edu/~stefanm/images/arnold3.jpg I mean this complete with Austrian accent ;)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by vivitron 15@19 November 2003 - 21:21
thats an interesting point; however i have to say that i cant stand the smell of meat...

in particular, i work in a shop inside a supermarket, and when people come in with cooked chickens on a weekend, i know they have them, cos thats all i can smell, and it disgusts me, to the pit of my stomach...whereas when i ate meat, i could never smell anything.
You are dealing with the complexity of being human. You are not only a biological machine, but you have a superimposed sense of what you perceive to be "right". The smell of animal meat now more acutely triggers your philosophy than your biology. This is a sort of emotional "learned aversion".

Think back to the time before your mind had decided to "oppose" the consumption of meat. You simply ate what your mother put in front of you. Did meat smell good then, probably so.

I saw your picture on Funky&#39;s site, I thought you had an extra hand and a tuft of hair on your neck, then I decided you we standing in front of your mother.The relevant link (http://www.funkycapricorn.com/Pictures/Vivitron.jpg)

[Gemby!]

why do people have somethign against veggies ??

all they do is not eat meat

a couple of &#39;friends&#39; dont like me being a veggie - it just bugs them &#33;&#33;&#33;

i just dont get some people &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[hobbes]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@19 November 2003 - 22:13
why do people have somethign against veggies ??

all they do is not eat meat

a couple of &#39;friends&#39; dont like me being a veggie - it just bugs them &#33;&#33;&#33;

i just dont get some people &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Why do people not like homosexuals? It seems un-natural and it confuses people. I, personally, have no problem with vegetarians.

[Gemby!]

someone said i irritate them cos im veggie - even though they have never seen me eat <_<

[Lamsey]

A lot of carrion-eaters feel threatened by vegetarians, as if the veggies are morally superior to them in some way.


Of course, I would say that veggies are, but that&#39;s just my opinion ;)

[DarthInsinuate]

Originally posted by hobbes@19 November 2003 - 21:18
Why do people not like homosexuals? It seems un-natural and it confuses people.
i think that&#39;s pretty much it - i also don&#39;t like it when you have to make special arrangements for veggies, it complicates things

[Gemby!]

i just eat whateva everyone else is eatign but without the meat part :P

say a normal sunday dinner thing - i have more potatoes :P

[LTJBukem]

;)

I used to love meat, poultry, fish, eggs and dairy. That was until i learned about the practice of intensive farming, at which point i chose to not eat animal products ever again. It&#39;s my decision, i don&#39;t spend my life imposing it on other people.

With regards to health, look at modern obesity levels.

:)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by LTJBukem+19 November 2003 - 22:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LTJBukem &#064; 19 November 2003 - 22:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@19 November 2003 - 21:18
<!--QuoteBegin-gemby&#33;@19 November 2003 - 22:13
why do people have somethign against veggies ??

all they do is not eat meat

a couple of &#39;friends&#39; dont like me being a veggie - it just bugs them &#33;&#33;&#33;

i just dont get some people &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Why do people not like homosexuals? It seems un-natural. I, personally, have no problem with vegetarians.
edit


I used to love meat, poultry, fish, eggs and dairy. That was until i learned about the practice of intensive farming, at which point i chose to not eat animal produxts ever again. It&#39;s my decision, i don&#39;t spend my life inposing it on other people.

With regards to health, look at modern obesity levels.[/b][/quote]
I&#39;m sorry, I don&#39;t know what you mean? I have only, in the past, explained my position on why I eat meat and why I think that is part of what I was meant to eat from a biological standpoint. I have never told people they had to eat meat. If you had read the thread you would have seen "my rule", but you again seem refractory to this visual skill.

I never made a single comment that I felt that vegetarians were "bad", going to the point of lauding those who stopped partaking of meat because of the treatment of animals.

Try and not to take a single disagreement we had and turn it into a crusade.

[LTJBukem]

;)


Erm...... never mind.......

:)

[UKMan]

Not wanting to sound comical or sarcastic or witty, but i actually eat meat AND vegatables. I have full respect for people who choose to eat whatever they want.

One of my daughters is vegatarian - do i dis-respect her? Of course not&#33; Do i try to change her? Of course not. Is it because she is my daughter that i choose not to sway her? Of course not. I respect her wishes to eat whatever she chooses. I do not question it because i do not have the right. She dos&#39;nt try to change me and respects my way of life as i do hers.

Untill we all realise what this life we live together is all about, untill we have understood the direction we are going, i think a little more respect and tolerance is needed. We ALL have the right to choose what WE think is right.

I do however turn my back on millitant and fanatical behaviour - both pro and anti.

Peace
UKMan

[hobbes]

Originally posted by LTJBukem@19 November 2003 - 22:40
edit

Sorry that i have resorted to name calling, but you are a prick.
Sorry old bean, but I was giving Gemby a generalization, not a personal opinion. Homophobia indicates an irrational fear or discrimination, I simply made an analogy.

Here is a link to another forum where I discuss the issue (I am Hobbes there):
Hobbes on homosexuality (http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?threadid=83648&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

You can read what I posted if you care, but let me post the reply from a male homosexual.


Vamp

A commentary regarding Hobbes&#39; post.
Hobbes, my friend. I&#39;d like to thank you for giving this thread one of the most well-written and intellectually grand posts that I have ever seen. I&#39;m very glad that you weren&#39;t touchy to say that homosexuals can be disgusting to you. In my opinion, that&#39;s a natural thing, depending on who you are. I think that this is comparable to that one armed girl that you may see on the street. You look at this fellow human being and although she is just that, you may get a chill down your spine. This is simply because it is something that is very unfarmiliar and uncomfortable.

What it comes down to is human nature and conditioning.

I&#39;d love to write more, but the relatives are here. Time to celebrate Giftmas. Happy holidays and love to everyone.... er, at least everyone worth loving

You can continue to attempt to villainize me if you wish, but actually, I am a pretty nice chap.

[Gemby!]

i agree with the respect bit &#33;

[Lamsey]

Thanks for being reasonable Hobbes - LTJBUkem, I hope you&#39;ll do the same :)

[TheDave]

Originally posted by Darth Sushi@19 November 2003 - 20:31
http://web.media.mit.edu/~stefanm/images/arnold3.jpg I mean this complete with Austrian accent ;)
i dont wanna sound like a an arsekisser but does that face remind you of anyone on this forum

[J'Pol]

I have to say I took it as an analogy (an illustration if you will).

Had I thought it was anything else I would have asked play boy to explain it.

Tho&#39; I can see how the genuine mistake could have been made. It just depends how one reads the post.

[J'Pol]

Tho I have to say you did call me a "Homo" recently .... :blink:

I took it to be Erectus, but now .... :unsure:

One wonders .... :huh:

[hobbes]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@19 November 2003 - 23:08
I have to say I took it as an analogy (an illustration if you will).

Had I thought it was anything else I would have asked play boy to explain it.

Tho&#39; I can see how the genuine mistake could have been made. It just depends how one reads the post.
Perhaps JPol it boils down to how you WANT to read it, you diet cola drinking homoerectus&#33;

[TheDave]

jpol drinks diet?

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@19 November 2003 - 22:11
Tho I have to say you did call me a "Homo" recently .... :blink:

I took it to be Erectus, but now .... :unsure:
Sounds Jonnoesque to me :huh:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by TheDave@19 November 2003 - 23:15
jpol drinks diet?
Diet Coke with Lemon, The.

For preference a bit south of room temperature, but not tundraesque.

[J'Pol]

Simultaneous esque.

What&#39;s the chances of that ?

[TheDave]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+19 November 2003 - 22:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 19 November 2003 - 22:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheDave@19 November 2003 - 23:15
jpol drinks diet?
Diet Coke with Lemon, The.

For preference a bit south of room temperature, but not tundraesque. [/b][/quote]
i hope its just for the taste (but why?).

otherwise ive lost all respect for you, and im turning vegetarian just to oppose you, weirdo.

[LTJBukem]

@hobbes.

Yeah ok:) I read your post on the Anarchy board, and it is a bloddy brilliant piece of writing. You do see though, that while your post here states that you personally don&#39;t have a problem with vegetarians, you omit to say the same of homosexuals. Also, instead of maybe asking why some people are offended by gay sexuality, you asked "why do people not like homosexuals", this comes across as a very offensive generalisation. I do believe you now however, that you genuinely didn&#39;t mean any offense.

I do admit that i&#39;ve not been enjoying your posts on vegetarianism, it&#39;s just that i find you overly assertive sometimes. I don&#39;t doubt that you are a nice guy, nor do i question your intelligence. It&#39;s just that you seem sometimes to trample other peoples opinions if they do not match your own; simply to win a debate.

Let&#39;s start over.

:)

[the_faceman]

=TheDave,19 November 2003 - 23:07]
Originally posted by Darth Sushi@19 November 2003 - 20:31

i dont wanna sound like a an arsekisser but does that face remind you of anyone on this forum
sorry to post this off topic thing here, but couldn&#39;t think of anywhere else that TheDave would see it in this context.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files/191103-liam_arnie.jpg

EDIT - didn&#39;t want to add a further off-topic post. in reply to TheDave below, i didn&#39;t notice the passing similarity until you pointed it out, but made the pic when you did for fun.

[TheDave]

lol. so its not just me who saw it then

[J'Pol]

I don&#39;t know about the rest of the body, but the brow is over-developed to horrendous proportions.

[hobbes]

@LTJBukem

Great reply, I will take your comments on my style to heart and I hope we can engage in fruitful discussions in the future.

[UKMan]

Originally posted by the_faceman@19 November 2003 - 23:26
sorry to post this off topic thing here, but couldn&#39;t think of anywhere else that TheDave would see it in this context.

.....
EDIT - didn&#39;t want to add a further off-topic post. in reply to TheDave below, i didn&#39;t notice the passing similarity until you pointed it out, but made the pic when you did for fun.
Since when has anybody ever posted anything that has anything to do with the topic they are replying to :lol:

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@19 November 2003 - 22:20
Simultaneous esque.

What&#39;s the chances of that ?
Pretty low if you esque me.





BTW, I&#39;m heartened as a mod to see people actually acting like adults - kudos to both involved. That happens so rarely on here it&#39;s frightening.

This round&#39;s on me :beerchug:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes@19 November 2003 - 23:29
@LTJBukem

Great reply, I will take your comments on my style to heart and I hope we can engage in fruitful discussions in the future.
Meaty as well one hopes.

[UKMan]

Originally posted by Lamsey@19 November 2003 - 23:31
BTW, I&#39;m heartened as a mod to see people actually acting like adults - kudos to both involved. That happens so rarely on here it&#39;s frightening.

This round&#39;s on me :beerchug:
we are supposed to suck up to you - not the other way around - :blink: :D :lol: