CAM rips for new theatrical releases...why not HDD?

[mh1313]

Why do so many rippers for new (theatrical, first-run) features go the CAM-RIP route? These videos look/sound AWFUL.
Why can't rippers get from theater's Digital Cinema PC/HDD (via USB, etc.) Some... ahem ... theatre projectionists/file-shares should surely be aware of this? Or is the/an obstacle a technical one: e.g., the "live steam" or video format for movie theaters encoded in some "uncryptable" way?

Refs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/21st-century-cinema-an-indie-look-at-digital-cinema

[Hole69]

They are not AWFUL, they are acceptable if you choose a decent release. I have enjoyed quite a few CAM's. You can't rip the digital one because its encrypted. Its a lot easier to smuggle in a camera, then filter it and upload it.

[johhny]

one time i watched a TS from imagine hooked up on my HDTV and it was looking like R5 pretty pretty good.

[mh1313]

The encryption used must be pretty tough, given the tenacity and skill of file-sharing hackers. But given the $$ at stake -- all the popcorn, soda and Twizzlers revenues -- I guess this is not surprising.
Okay, so no simple routine ... like plug in your small (high capacity) thumb drive into the Cinema-computer (and/or related cinema-storage device), and "you've got movie" (in AOL speak!).
I'm going to guess that EVEN the Cinema-computer-to-projector interface is not your typical HDMI??

The CAM's still look but esp. SOUND quite awful to me ... I'd rather wait a few mos. for better qual. home-vid release. No movies released theatrically is, IMO, that important.

EDIT:
Did a bit of digging and found some topical resources (http://oneddl.blog.com/). Seems TS is the best of the lot, for now. Maybe some Norwegian teenager wants to take a crack at it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS) again ;)

[LemOnzoo]

i never watch pre DVD or Bluray releases. I think that prometheus is released in CAM HD

[Disme]

I hate CAM's.
Awefull sound,shady and blurry picture and strange colours.
Have soms patience and wait until they release something that doesn't hurt your eyes/ears!

I'm not a HD-fanboi, but I do think a CAM can ruin a movies whole feel/timbre.

[desolate1]

What's weird is that tons of street vendors have legions of people who will pay over and over for cam rips.

[Hole69]

What's weird is that tons of street vendors have legions of people who will pay over and over for cam rips.

Well in those places you can buy an AK for $25 USD and a few thousand rounds for $5, so I'm not surprised. Everything is for sale and everything has a price.

[desolate1]

What's weird is that tons of street vendors have legions of people who will pay over and over for cam rips.

Well in those places you can buy an AK for $25 USD and a few thousand rounds for $5, so I'm not surprised. Everything is for sale and everything has a price.

I'm not talking about some 3rd world country. I'm talking about right here in the good'ol USA. In front of liquor stores and check cashing places, some of the bigger swap meets, all kinds of places where you'd THINK the cops would walk right up to them and put them in jail. NOPE, doesn't happen. I know some local street vendors who've been selling for YEARS in front of stores and what not. Says the cops don't even give them a 2nd glance, as long as they don't look thuggish, or up to no good. Dress decent, don't solicit TOO hard, and cops won't even bother you. God bless America.

[sharept]

CAM in theater is not allowed. Let alone rips from theater's Digital Cinema PC/HDD.

[sandman_1]

Why dont they just plug in a USB jump drive? Yea smart... :wacko:

The movies are encrypted , time locked, and several hundred GB's if not several TB's in size.

[mh1313]

Why dont they just plug in a USB jump drive? Yea smart... :wacko:

The movies are encrypted , time locked, and several hundred GB's if not several TB's in size."Sandman", have you been asleep?
The FACT that they are ENCRYPTED is obvious and noted in the OP.
"several hundred GB's if not several TB's in size."
WHAT?!!
From ...
(3)
"The files on the drives are JPEG2000 and come in either 2k or 4k resolution with the files size being anything from 50gig to 400gig+."
(4)
"... at the maximum 250 megabit-per-second data rate (as defined by DCI for digital cinema), a feature-length movie can be stored on an off the shelf 300 GB [3D are a bit over 300GB, depending on length] hard drive..."

If the cinema server has a port (USB, etc.) a teenage hacker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS)with a cheap MODERN laptop may be able to find a work around.
Plenty of resources on the Internet on how digital cinema works:
(1) http://www.mkpe.com/digital_cinema/works/
(2) http://www.mkpe.com/digital_cinema/faqs/tech_faqs.php
(3) http://www.wirefresh.com/how-are-digital-movies-distributed-and-screened-every-question-answered/
(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hmKkQi4r_o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bmOQFi-cw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wP6v_al71c

... it's only a matter of time...

117979

[sandman_1]

Even if you "could" get the content on a HDD, it would be worthless.



What is a KDM?
KDM is an acronym for Key Delivery Message. A KDM is a special electronic key that contains a code which "unlocks" an encrypted film.

What is KDM Encryption?
Encryption is a security measure used to prevent films from being stolen and duplicated. DCP’s are encrypted in a manner that allows them to be played only on a specific Digital Cinema server at a predetermined time. A KDM is sent to the projection site to unlock the DCP for the screening engagement. It is not a necessity to have a DCP encrypted.


Need I say more?

[mh1313]

Even if you "could" get the content on a HDD, it would be worthless.



What is a KDM?
KDM is an acronym for Key Delivery Message. A KDM is a special electronic key that contains a code which "unlocks" an encrypted film.
What is KDM Encryption?
Encryption is a security measure used to prevent films from being stolen and duplicated. DCP’s are encrypted in a manner that allows them to be played only on a specific Digital Cinema server at a predetermined time. A KDM is sent to the projection site to unlock the DCP for the screening engagement. It is not a necessity to have a DCP encrypted.Need I say more?I'm not sure you CAN say more ;) CLUE: Think outside the HDD (or is that box?)

[mh1313]

FYI: I orig. posed this query on VideoHelp (supposedly the "best" video forum) ... and they were shocked that anyone would ever openly ask this question. The mod closed the thread. Might it not be too difficult to imagine that someone form the industry may be asking these questions in order to make their product more robust to naughty file-sharers and hackers? IAC, take a lesson from Sun Tzu's Art of War: know thy enemy. Study the 'enemy' on your home turf e.g., (the VideoHelp BB). Learn from them. Censorship is rarely the right approach.

[manker]

FYI: I orig. posed this query on VideoHelp (supposedly the "best" video forum) ... and they were shocked that anyone would ever openly ask this question. The mod closed the thread. Might it not be too difficult to imagine that someone form the industry may be asking these questions in order to make their product more robust to naughty file-sharers and hackers? IAC, take a lesson from Sun Tzu's Art of War: know thy enemy. Study the 'enemy' on your home turf e.g., (the VideoHelp BB). Learn from them. Censorship is rarely the right approach.
I might understand your analogy if I knew who the IAC were.
Urban Dictionary says it's an acronym for I am cute. If this is the case then although this is technically the wrong section for personals, please PM your Skype ID and we'll say no more about it.

Also you seem to be implying that you're from the industry. Or at least playing devil's advocate. I think probably the latter but this is how I look at the concept within this thread; when current theatrical releases hit the p2p scene, they are invariably cams. Occasionally you may get a workprint or whatever but the overwhelming majority are cams. I've never seen a current theatrical release in perfect quality which would be the case if the scenario you describe was a workable reality.

Therefore, if anyone can do this, then it doesn't seem to be benefiting me or the filesharing community right now so my give-a-fuck-ometer is levelling out at slightly north of zero.

[mh1313]

IAC = In any Case (you REALLY didn't know this? .... WOW, dude!)
That's the first ackr., and the only one I'm aware of/use.

No I'm not part of the industry -- I thought I was clear in stating the hypothetical:
" Might it not be too difficult to imagine that someone form the industry may be asking these questions in order to make their product more robust to naughty file-sharers and hackers?"

Industries, governments, corporates--the powers that be, including FS comm. and Gen. Public/ Body Politic -- fish for info all the time. By hook or by crook. Esp. when $$, sex, power.

[manker]

IAC = In any Case (you REALLY didn't know this? .... WOW, dude!)
That's the first ackr., and the only one I'm aware of/use.

No I'm not part of the industry -- I thought I was clear in stating the hypothetical:
" Might it not be too difficult to imagine that someone form the industry may be asking these questions in order to make their product more robust to naughty file-sharers and hackers?"

Industries, governments, corporates--the powers that be, including FS comm. and Gen. Public/ Body Politic -- fish for info all the time. By hook or by crook. Esp. when $$, sex, power.Yeah, I've never seen anyone use that. But then again, I don't use forums much and also I favour disingenuous misinterpretation when it suits.
Often this is done for comedic effect. Have you never done this.

Thanks for the convoluted explanation but you're surely aware that it's possible for someone to obfuscate their intentions by clearly stating them. It's some new fangled subterfuge called a bluff, I think.

IAC, I did say that I didn't think you were part of the industry. I'm sure that they would try to post like a regular forum user.
You seem to be communicating in what I can only describe as how my dad talks.

[mjmacky]

Yeah, I've never seen anyone use that. But then again, I don't use forums much and also I favour disingenuous misinterpretation when it suits.
Often this is done for comedic effect. Have you never done this?

Thanks for the convoluted explanation but you're surely aware that it's possible for someone to obfuscate their intentions by clearly stating them. It's some new fangled subterfuge called a bluff, I think.

IAC, I did say that I didn't think you were part of the industry. I'm sure that they would try to post like a regular forum user.
You seem to be communicating in what I can only describe as how my dad talks.

You missed that part.

[manker]

I never use a curly wurly when employing rhetoric and consider it gauche to do so.
Heathen.

[mjmacky]

I never use a curly wurly when employing rhetoric and consider it gauche to do so.
Heathen.

You're a pretty sour loser?

[manker]

118365

I see what you did there.

[mjmacky]

118366

[renhoek93]

Well actually some Cams of the latest movies can look very nice & some can look like shit it all depends on the type the person uses & how there doing it & if there in a theater with a lot of people for example i saw a Russian Cam of Monsters University back when it was still in theaters the quality actually looked decent but threw it a number of people got up & there was a little girl standing & blocking the movie theater screen threw the middle of the film so yeah it was bad but some parts were watchable my point is not all Cams suck some are good & some suck it all depends plus have you guys ever heard of a telesync or for short (TS) its the same thing as a Cam Rip just done in a more professional way in the movie theaters.

[IdolEyes787]

Well actually some Cams of the latest movies can look very nice & some can look like shit it all depends on the type the person uses & how there doing it & if there in a theater with a lot of people for example i saw a Russian Cam of Monsters University back when it was still in theaters the quality actually looked decent but threw it a number of people got up & there was a little girl standing & blocking the movie theater screen threw the middle of the film so yeah it was bad but some parts were watchable my point is not all Cams suck some are good & some suck it all depends .....

So apparently cams and forum posts have more in common than one would at first guess. :)

[renhoek93]

Well actually some Cams of the latest movies can look very nice & some can look like shit it all depends on the type the person uses & how there doing it & if there in a theater with a lot of people for example i saw a Russian Cam of Monsters University back when it was still in theaters the quality actually looked decent but threw it a number of people got up & there was a little girl standing & blocking the movie theater screen threw the middle of the film so yeah it was bad but some parts were watchable my point is not all Cams suck some are good & some suck it all depends .....

So apparently cams and forum posts have more in common than one would at first guess. :)


Whatever you say man XD.

[mh1313]

Off and on, I've been sampling cams since I started this thread about 1.5yrs ago. Not much has improved. E.g., I just sat thru a 1.5Gb CAM of Prisoners (2013) ... and image-wise it sucked big time. (Not sure why the file was THAT huge given quality). Audio was decent however (hearing impaired headphone feed in theater??)
Waiting for Gravity tho' most CAMmers say this one is really worth the $15 for 3D+large screen+audio. Speaking of worth and convenience .... well if there is one take-home lesson, it's that if you can wait an extra two mos., for a "legitimate rip" (LOL!!!), it's way worth it for the HUGE gains in quality ... not unless you're real old or have cancer or in a war-torn land ... or it's on your toilet-side iPad ... then, enjoy it as soon as you can ... and don't forget to wipe ;)

[megabyteme]

or it's on your toilet-side iPad ... then, enjoy it as soon as you can ... and don't forget to wipe ;)

Better copyright the concept of the iWipe/iShit Cinema before Apple steals it out from under you...

[mh1313]

or it's on your toilet-side iPad ... then, enjoy it as soon as you can ... and don't forget to wipe ;)

Better copyright the concept of the iWipe/iShit Cinema before Apple steals it out from under you...Decartes said it pretty much centuries ago .... iTurd, therefore I am ;)
IAC, Apple's been stealin' for decades ... but they don't get ... uh ... poo poo'd 'cause Jobs looks so pretty male-modelly in close-ups that stock-photoists sell to Time and Life ... and, boo effin' hoo ... he died from da C word.
...s'cuse me ... I gotta #2, again ;)

[mjmacky]

Better copyright the concept of the iWipe/iShit Cinema before Apple steals it out from under you...Decartes said it pretty much centuries ago .... iTurd, therefore I am ;)
IAC, Apple's been stealin' for decades ... but they don't get ... uh ... poo poo'd 'cause Jobs looks so pretty male-modelly in close-ups that stock-photoists sell to Time and Life ... and, boo effin' hoo ... he died from da C word.
...s'cuse me ... I gotta #2, again ;)

Hey, don't worry about it. Have you heard the news? Everybody poops.

[piercerseth]

Hey, don't worry about it. Have you heard the news? Everybody poops. Apparently to the tune of 410 lbs a year. Or so I just learned recently.

[mjmacky]

I wonder how much my Frosty the Minstrelman would weigh if I saved all the fixings and made one.