BR Disc Burning Problems with IMGBurn (no response on s/w website)

[Beck38]

I think like many folks, I long ago left the commercial DVD/BR burning programs behind with the introduction of IMGBurn. I have been using it successfully for burning DVD's and Bluray data discs for years.

Three or so years ago, I did some basic tests ripping BR discs and burning them off to both BD-RW and BD-R's (BD25's, as BD50's were REALLY expensive then, and kinda remain so), and I still have the half-dozen or so 'tests' I did on BD-R's and they still play just fine.

This last couple of days, I had the need to rip and burn a BD25 disc, and followed the exact same procedure (that still exists on the IMGBurn website, btw), but the burned disc will not play in any player I have (6 so far, yes, it's ridiculous!). I've tried several different ways of doing it, ripping to iso then burning iso, ripping to files then converting to iso then burning, burning the files, you name it. Nothing works.

Put several messages on the IMGBurn website, no response. Went searching all over the web for any information, got a little that may or may not be accurate or true, but mostly it was simply 'rip, burn, play', but of course for some reason it doesn't. No errors or error messages come up during the burn. The discs simply do not play. The actual disc images DO play across my network to network player boxes just fine.

So, what am I doing wrong? The URL where the IMGBurn is at:

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?/topic/9512-how-to-write-a-blu-ray-video-disc-using-imgburn/

and that's exactly what I've used, again, for years. Why it would simply stop working (I do have the latest version) I don't know,

Any clues, Anyone?

[piercerseth]

The guys I know who like to image discs all use AnyDVD HD directly (as opposed to running it in the backround with say imgburn) to rip. Seems to handle the structural protections and whatnot flawlessly.

[Beck38]

The guys I know who like to image discs all use AnyDVD HD directly (as opposed to running it in the backround with say imgburn) to rip. Seems to handle the structural protections and whatnot flawlessly.

I don't know what you mean, 'directly' v. 'background'. These are two completely different programs, I've never heard of a way they 'work together' at the same time?

[piercerseth]

Anydvd can run as a process in the background and negate copy protection on the fly. So, you could use imgburn while it 'assists.' OR just use anydvd directly to do the actual ripping.

[Beck38]

I've never seen that work, on any machine on any OS. Maybe Win8? No, I rip directly to hard disc, then I'm trying to burn that rip as per the instructions in ImgBurn. This used to work years ago (as per the instructions on the site), doesn't now.

I've trying various combinations of ripping and burning, have gone through them all, and none work. Either one of two things has happened, either the programmer of Imgburn has made changes (that weren't tested out properly before the later versions were released), or some change in the Microsoft OS (of which there are dozens almost every week) or both have led to Imgburn no longer working. I'm not the only one to run into this problem, it has been written up on various websites, mr. google captures tons of them.

So far, none of the 'fixes' they suggest have worked, at least for me. I have a machine (Vista/32) that just came out of the shop about 3 weeks ago (OS re-installed due to drive failure) that has an identical burner (Pioneer) but does other tasks in my network usually, but I can install Imgburn on it and give it a try there. That's about my last chance at getting it to work, even though I just finished a perfect data burn on the V/64 system so I know that part of it still works.

Just not BluRay video.

[JP-NZB]

Are these the same discs you used before and on the same drive firmware?
Do they work with a different DB25 source?
Have you tried the same source on a different BD-R maybe a RW?
Did you Verify with imgburn?

If your just doing a 1:1 DB25 then there are not that many things that could be causing the issue.

Basically looking at this from a fault finding angle you need to prove each step. Prove the source disc plays in the BD players, rip the image to the PC HD, prove the iso by mounting it with daemon tools and playing it on the PC, then burn it. The more you can prove the easier it is to find the problem. Try burning the iso at different speeds, I have seen cases of driver firmware not supporting the slower speeds! Try burning the ISO to different media. Try burning the iso with different software. Once we find what stage of the process is failing it will be easier to diagnose.

[Beck38]

Are these the same discs you used before and on the same drive firmware?

Yep; I even pulled out some of the 'old' Ritek BD-RW's (2x) and same result; the older (1st) drive (Vista/32 machine) I had to install
the latest IMGBurn s/w as the OS was re-installed some 3-4 weeks ago, but it has the original f/w as does the slightly newer BD Drive in the V64 machine. I can try out one of the much older versions (about 4 yrs older as I save everything I ever d/l and install in a 'special' directory. So, except for the version of IMGBurn, that machine is virtually the same as it was 4 years ago (newer hard drives is about all).




Do they work with a different DB25 source?

I've tried (and re-ripped) several commercial BD25's and tried burning, same result.



Have you tried the same source on a different BD-R maybe a RW?

Actually, I use BD-RW's almost exclusively (I have an older pile of Riteks and a newer pile of Verbatim BD25's), but broke down and spent the lousy $1 (really 90cents since I buy in bulk) and burned a BD-R. Same result.



Did you Verify with imgburn?

I always verify. I don't think I've burned any disc since the DVD days without verifying. I have well over 8,000 burned DVD's (took about 8+ years to do) and am passing some 1000+ BD25's, which are all also in a large NAS I can instantly access from around the house (gigabit ethernet). I've run into less than 5 DVD5's or 9's over the years that have 'gone bad' and were recoverable by re-ripping and re-burning. So the time spent verifying is well worth it.



If your just doing a 1:1 DB25 then there are not that many things that could be causing the issue.

Basically looking at this from a fault finding angle you need to prove each step. Prove the source disc plays in the BD players, rip the image to the PC HD, prove the iso by mounting it with daemon tools and playing it on the PC, then burn it. The more you can prove the easier it is to find the problem. Try burning the iso at different speeds, I have seen cases of driver firmware not supporting the slower speeds! Try burning the ISO to different media. Try burning the iso with different software. Once we find what stage of the process is failing it will be easier to diagnose.

The source plays perfectly in all players (it is a BD25). it plays perfectly on the pc (both the iso rip and the file (BDMV/Certificate) rip. (literally a couple seconds after I mount the iso with daemon tools, PowerDVD takes off and plays the thing). The file types same thing. My network media players also have no trouble with either type; in short, it's there and it works.

All my BD-RW's are 2X, and that's what the discs are burned at. When I burned the BD-R, which are 4X, I burned at 4X, which is what I've been doing for 4+ years. S/W? I d/l'ed what PC Mag said was the 'best' burning s/w, Ashampoo Burning Studio 12, as they do a 30 day trial that's fully functional (unlike some others which cripple their trial s/w). Same result; I sent them a bug report, should hear back in a couple days (the company is German).

So, the end result is... no result from any s/w (as of yet), two burners of the same model but with firmware about a year apart, two types of burning s/w (one of course PD/free, the other commercial), and three different types of discs, Ritek RW and R and Verbatim RW.

In short, every type of combination there is, with the h/w, s/w, f/w that I have available to me. What, you might ask, got me on this 'bent'? It's because 4 years ago I spent a fair amount of time de-constructing the way bluray's were being 'made', just like I had done 10 years previous with DVD's. I would make changes to, for instance, the mpls files, burn off the result, and see how it 'blew up'. After a few months, I came to the conclusion that my brain wasn't quite up to it (neither was it with DVD's, but I could at least somewhat intelligently follow the discussion on Doom9 mostly..?! But smarter folks than me have now rolled out some interesting s/w to get into the Bluray internals and 'muck around with things) kinda where the Doom9 tools were around 2002-e or thereabouts.

So I pulled out a disc I wanted to fool with, did some minor changes, and played it back (PC and media player). Did about what I wanted, Then I figured I'd burn it so I could see how consumer players reacted to the changes. Disc wouldn't play. Re-ripped the source and burned off with no changes (raw). Wouldn't play. That's where I am right now, trying to figure out why things that used to be burnable will no longer burn right. The biggest change (so far) is the newer IMGBurn, but Ashampoo doesn't work either. I've run a burn test on the BD-RW Verbatims, perfectly good. I've used Ritek BD-R's exclusively since bought the burners, I've never (i mean never!) had a coaster until I burned that disc yesterday. Over 1000 used. I'd grab a pack of Verbatim BR-R's if I really though that would help.

The discs load, and start to churn through the loading process, then stall. Some of my consumer players give me a 'disc dirty' message. My media players (they have BD players) just sit there doing zzzzzzzz.

So, the source is perfect, in every way I can check it. The burned result is unplayable (apparently). I know this works as I did it 4 years ago. The only thing I haven't checked yet is to re-install the older version of IMGBurn I was using, on the machine I did it on, with the same burner with the same f/w (and the same BD-RW's!) that I did it on. I should be able to get to that tomorrow, I've already ruined this weekend spending tons of time flipping discs and re-running burns until I'm blue in the face.

[JP-NZB]

:wacko:It seems bonkers but you seem to have a good iso however it will not burn on 2 systems with 2 different burners and 2 different burning programmes with different types of media!

Unfortunately my brain is confused now but please do post the solution when you find it as I am interested to hear what is causing this.

[Beck38]

There have been, over the years, a lot of problems that I've been able to either 'fix' or come to the conclusion are unfixable, luckily I have a fair number of machines with various h/w and s/w to try and narrow things down. In this case, I have tons of folks saying they don't have any problems but can't seem to give straight examples of what works for them.

The biggest change in the last 4+ years that I can see right now, and it's near the top of my list as to why things don't work, is the near universal application of BD-Java to bluray discs. I am running a long-duration test on my largest Vista/64 machine right now, and as soon as it is done I'll try pulling out one of my old discs that I 'think' isn't Java (I'll confirm before starting the process) and rip the thing and try burning it.

[whiteside60]

Have you tried using DVDFab. I've been using it for some time now and I do get pretty decent results. Takes a long time though when converting a BD50 to BD25.

[Beck38]

I use real (near professional x264 encoding) s/w when converting/compressing discs, i.e., MeGUI/MKV; the engine used in DVDFab is the Bluray equivalent of DVDClone, which 'back in the day' was the poor equivalent of DVDRebuilder/Cinema Craft Encoder (again, professional s/w).

I used to use DVDFab years ago, but they 'split' DVD and BluRay decrypters into two products (two revenue streams, right?) and that's when I switched to AnyDVD, which just about everybody else that I 'talk' to has as well. Also ran into way too many discs that wouldn't decrypt.

[Beck38]

.... YES Success! and guess what... going back to a very earlier version of IMGBurn did the trick. '

In fact, I jumped all the way back to v2.5.1 (released Apr 2010), burned my ISO rip, and it worked just perfectly! I'm burning the file version (BDMV/Certificate) and will see what gives then, but I'll bet (maybe a penny at this point) it will work; I'll update this posting when/if.

So, at some point IMGBurn 'went off the tracks' as in, the programmer failed to test out their program fully. At what point this happened, is a good question. I think I'm like most folks, especially when it comes to 'PD' programs like this, 'if it works, why fix it?'.

I would have never 'upgraded' IMGBurn if my older Vista/32 machine hadn't taken a really big dump, and I hadn't had so much problems in the past getting any backup routine to work (after this, I did make a new concerted effort to see what if any decent things had come out of the woodwork since 3+ years ago when I last failed to find something that actually worked, and found a program/system called 'Image for Windows' that works across all Windows (back through Win/NT4! now that's programming!) so ran tests and it works on my W2K machines..! (which was still widely being widely installed back, although XP was gaining ground, when I retired!)

Anyway, at some point IMGBurn failed; now, I'm not going to go through all the versions back from the most recent (2.5.8.0) and figure out where it went off the tracks; I'm RETIRED, and if the folks at IMGBurn want to pay me what I made circa 2002 to figure out their mess (btw, ~$2500/day) they can sign a contract.

Anyway, continuing to test. Will add to this posting when I get more info!

UPDATE: The files rip (BDMV/Certificate) plays okay as well.

[Beck38]

For those who don't understand what's going on with programmers (in general) today or over the past few years (at least 3-4 decades, really) read WIRED on the disaster in rolling out the ACA/Heath Care sites. I could have told them months/years ago that you can trust programmers to do a job just about as far as you can trust a certain political party not to try and crater the country to turn it over to fascist billionaires. In other words, about the length of your arm so you can punch their lights out when they get out of line.

The reply I got on the Imgburn website was 'typical', tail wagging the dog. Blame me for the Bluray burner I have (although I proved that the program previously worked 100% by re-installing the older version), and not upgrading to a newer 'kit' or installing new drive firmware. If your software worked in the first place, and I'm not trying to do something 'new' like a new type of burnable disc (more 'x' times speed or something), then the 'new' s/w should work. Period. But obviously they changed something in the code to make it NOT work.

I've been in development conferences at multi-billion dollar projects (both in the government and private industry) where programmers have been told we needed x to do y, and been flat out that x would have to go the z to get to y and that's just the way it was. Well, see you later, bring in the next company and have them get to work. I'm sure with the ACA problems now, nobody was apparently willing to do that. Kick ass and take names.

At least in my case here, I could go back to something that worked. I'll keep the 'newest' s/w on one machine, and update when I see a new version, and give it a try again. But I have the luxury of keeping the old s/w on another machine, and burn there when I need to, something I'm sure most folks don't have.

[Et tu]

For those who don't understand what's going on with programmers (in general) today or over the past few years (at least 3-4 decades, really) read WIRED on the disaster in rolling out the ACA/Heath Care sites. I could have told them months/years ago that you can trust programmers to do a job just about as far as you can trust a certain political party not to try and crater the country to turn it over to fascist billionaires. In other words, about the length of your arm so you can punch their lights out when they get out of line.

Bullshit.

In any given disaster involving programmers, it's more likely it's the result of poor management. It'll be bad specs, micro management to the point of impeding the progress of the project, overly optimistic project plans, vague specs, inaccurate specs, unrealistic specs or no specs at all. If something goes tits up, I'd start looking at middle management, people in marketing, project leaders or virtually anyone else who has a say in the planning, especially if they are bound to stack more things on or alter priorities on a whim, or anyone who tends to bypass proper channels to bring issues directly to people who're meant to focus on a specific task. Sometimes the customer will also exacerbate things by making unrealistic demands, or changing their minds midway. Virtually anyone in a position of power who doesn't get the technology, but thinks they're all right to make quick, uninformed calls can screw over a project easily.

And it's precisely that sort of attitude you're displaying that has them screwing things over.


And don't get me started on firms that start outsourcing to places like India or latvia and expect the project to run as efficiently as if it were done in-house. Which it won't. Not because it'll be done by worse programmers, but because of failures in communication, different standards or bad logistics.


Other than that, I'll be very surprised if there's a piece of software that'll work with every concievable combination of hardware possible today, especially when factoring in not only current configurations sold today, but anything that's been in play since five years back or so, whenever it became affordable for end users to start burning blurays. The issue here is probably related to that they've not been running any tests on configurations similar to yours for a bit. Which is probably understandable given time constraints and imgburn not being run by a huge operation.