New build and the inevitable problems

[Skiz]

I decided to get a new case for the PC. Although I still think it's an eye pleasing case, my original Cooler Master 690 was starting to show its age. I decided on the Fractal R4 and started looking around the web at how people were doing their cable management for that particular case. I really started to enjoy some of the builds I saw, and as it tends to happen, that snowballed into building an entirely new PC. I've been accruing parts for about 3 weeks now as I find deals and such following the Black Friday/Cyber Monday overhyped nonsense. By a couple of days ago everything was here.

-Fractal R4 (Titanium w/ window)
-Asus Sabertooth Z87
-Intel i7-4770K
-Corsair H100i cooler
-32GB DDR3 2400 1866 GSkill Sniper Gaming Series
-EVGA GTX760 Superclocked
-Samsung SSD EVO 500GB
-Corsair AX760 fully modular PSU
-Windows 8.1 Pro-64

During the build, I like to piece together all the items that will go with the motherboard to make sure things generally fit ok. After doing that I started putting them all in the case and screwing things down. Onboard USB. Check. 24pin ATX. Check. Etc... During my quick survey, I just couldn't find the 4pin 12V ATX port for the CPU power. No worries, I'll find it once I get the PSU installed and start running cables. I forgot all about it after that. Big mistake. Once I got to that point, I already had the H100i cooler installed which was a pain to do by the way. It's really a two person job. I had to get blocks to hold the cooler up and clips for the hoses while I held the radiator in one hand and put in screws with the other. Not fun. Anyhow, it is only after I have this installed that I realize why I didn't see the 4pin ATX plug on my initial survey... it's an 8-pin plug on this board and I just didn't notice... and it's now barely visible through a small space behind the coolers radiator. There's simply no way to get that plugged in without taking the entire radiator back off. OK, let's get this over with. Hopefully this is the mistake/glitch for this build and the rest is smooth sailing. I get C clamps out to hold the radiator this time and all goes better than expected. Done.

Onward, I initially purchased the same memory as listed above but at a frequency of 2400 even though the Sabertooth Z87 is only officially able to run 1333/1600/1866. My thought process was this - the memory and the Z87 both have XMP capability so it shouldn't really matter. The board will adjust appropriately. I was still hesitant until I read a review right on the memory page that stated a guy had the same board and it worked. That reassurance combined with the RAM being on sale at about $50 cheaper than its 1866 counterpart, I felt pretty good about it. A week goes by and the RAM sticks arrive along with some other final parts.

I get the entire build assembled, cross my fingers, and hit the power button. Lights come on, fans are spinning... nothing on the screens. Shit. After some various tinkering, I remove all the RAM except 1 stick and reboot. BIOS. Success. I install Windows 8 via USB. Power down. Insert second RAM stick. Boot. Success. Both detected. Fist pump. Repeat with third stick. Success. Repeat with fourth stick. Fail. "MemOK!" light comes on denoting a problem. I follow the MemOK! process of letting it fix the problem but it is unable. After that, I cannot get any stick(s) of RAM to function in any combination. I reset CMOS and restart the process. Same thing. I am also getting beep code for RAM failure. (This is described in a few brief sentences here, but it is a day of experimenting in real time) All I can think of is that RAM doesn't play nice with that board. It may very well be possible to get it working but I couldn't figure it out in a full day of research. Out of ideas, I RMA the memory and order the 1866 frequency sticks that are now on sale for $40 less than the first 2400 set. They should work just fine when they arrive on Monday and with any luck I'll have a functioning build. (also not worried about having 1866 as with 32GB I'll have plenty to go 'round)

Cable management. I've been really irritated with my last couple of builds, this one included. Why the hell doesn't a modular power supply by Corsair (and others) come with a simpler set of cables?? Especially when you go the extra step and purchase the sleeved cables. Example: I have an SSD mounted on the back of the motherboard panel. How does it make sense that the only way to connect it with the provided cables it to run one of those multi sata connection cables with 4 heads? And for the power button up front, it needs a single Molex connection. One. The only Molex cables provided by Corsair? A bulky cable with again, a 4-head Molex connection. Four! Between those two cables, cable management has been a nightmare. I really don't want to take the back cover off of that case again as I'm not sure I'll get it back on, but I need to fix some cables so I'll have to. Something must be done. I'm giving serious consideration to buying custom cables from ModDIY. If I go to trouble of doing that though, I'll probably go all the way and sleeve the front i/o cables as well. No idea how to tackle that...

I shall return with updates as time allows. Pics to follow at some point.

[Skiz]

New memory was delivered this morning. I was optimistic that I could drop it in and power the new build up but I wasn't that lucky. I popped the new RAM in, pressed power, and booted to BIOS. I was happy to see the new RAM all visible in BIOS. I restarted, but this time the build went straight to BIOS without me hammering the F2 button. Hmm, not a good sign. Why didn't the SSD with a fresh Windows install boot? Since I was already in BIOS, I did some digging. I don't mind saying I'm a little more familiar with this new BIOS than I should be this early on. Anyhow, everything in my boot order was set up properly. I try rebooting again for the heck of it. Same thing. Straight to BIOS. I repeat this numerous times while tinkering with various fast boot and hardware boot configuration options to see if anything would make a difference. Nothing does. I am stumped. I am not happy.

I'm not pointing any fingers at the RAM this time around. My beep code tells me everything on the hardware side is OK and the MemOK! light is not on. I have no reason to suspect the RAM. I shut it all down and open the rig up to start looking for a possible disconnected SATA cable. Anything that might give an explanation. I find everything in it's proper place. Maybe one of the cables has gone bad? I swap out both SATA cables and try again. No change. I'm starting to suspect that maybe my SSD has died, but since BIOS has seen it all along, I'm not ready to go down that road yet. I consider attempting to install Windows from a USB again just to see if it's working, but I just did that when I assembled everything. It has a fresh install. The only other things I've loaded were drivers and such from the motherboard disk, Chrome, and BF3 (which takes 8 damn hours to download plus another 5 for updates). I don't want to do all that again. I grab a spare SSD, plug it in and install Windows. Reboot. Everything works fine. OK, now I know that either the SSD is bad or somehow the MBR got screwed up. I put the new SSD back in and try reinstalling Windows. It's reading it....good so far. I complete the install and everything boots up perfectly.

How in the heck would my MBR have gotten borked? :blink:

Here's a quick photo of the basic build. Have done very little cable mgmt yet.

http://i.imgur.com/lR8ePv6.jpg[/URL]

Other things I plan/might plan to do:


Sleeving the default wiring as well as the 24pin ATX cable to match the others. I may decide to do those in a dark gray instead of black. I initially wanted everything black but it just doesn't give much depth.
I'd also like to put the two HDD's up into the 5.25 bays and remove the bottom cage altogether.
Might remove stickers from the power supply.
If I decide to go with some gray cables, I might paint the expansion slot covers to match.

[pootystomp]

Looks awesome, you just need another gtx760 and a better operating system.;)

[Skiz]

The EVGA GTX760 SC I have now runs every new game I have on the absolute highest settings, so having a second one would do me absolutely nothing more. For example, BF4 runs at 1080/60fps/Ultra settings and does so flawlessly.

Changed the OS in the original post to Windows 8.1 Pro 64. I had a bootleg Pre-activated version of 8 but I just bought a legit key for 8.1 Pro on Reddit for $25. :happy:

I don't mind 8.1 too much. There's definitely some stupidity that I stumble upon now and again but for the most part I've adapted.

[Skiz]

Updated pics:

Speccy doesn't reflect overclocks but it's running smoothly at 4.5GHz. Idle stays within 19-25C. The warmest I've been able to get it in the past couple of hours is 61C. I'd say the H100i is holding up very well considering the 4770K is known to run a bit hot.


http://i.imgur.com/I6HTJXT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FxGAXrJ.jpg

[Rart]

Btw if you haven't already you should check this out, especially since you have plenty of RAM to go around: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/samsung-ssd-840-evo-review-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/5

[IdolEyes787]

I'm thinking about building a new PC too as I'm starting to get some of those annoying "Won't run on your computer" notices.

As I basically only use the computer's power for games from what I've read probably going with the i5 7670k and less RAM and using the savings for a better video card is probably the way to go.

Also undecided on whether to reuse my CM HAF X.
Thinking about the Cosmos 2 or being really ghey and the CM Level 10. Not reusing it is an incredible waste but it's got a burnt out USB port on the front that bothers the fuck out of me.

Or maybe just fuck it entirely as I don't even really like gaming anymore and spend the money on poetry books and protein isolate.

Any advice that is not coming from megabyteme would be appreciated.

PS Money is basically not a factor but wasting it still is.:)

[pootystomp]

http://www.cmstore-usa.com/haf-912-i-o-panel-oem-package/

The Asus r9 290x looks nice. Just hard to get with the fucking lightcoin miners hoarding them.

[Artemis]

What is your current PC setup Idol?

I ask this in terms of what can be re used in another build, and where we can go in terms of recommendations, i.e. do you have an SSD, what RAM speed, size, etc. Preferences for Graphics card i.e. NVidia or AMD.

As for the CM HAF case I have the same one and although I haven't killed a USB port on it, the thing is a dust magnet which is really getting on my pec's, that and a graphics card upgrade are in the forseeable future for me.

[IdolEyes787]

http://www.cmstore-usa.com/haf-912-i-o-panel-oem-package/



Thanks man and after exchange rate ,custom duties,taxes and delivery charges the $6.99 part only cost me 24 bucks.


What is your current PC setup Idol?



It's all in my profile except the PS is now a Thermaltake 775W - see shorted out USB port.

So basically as I see it,not knowing anything, I will need minimally a new CPU,motherboard,memory and GPU .
I have a fancy Seasonic Platinum PS and a bunch of decent HDDs that are currently just gathering dust and the case which as you astutely stated is also gathering dust.

Probably in a new build would like at least one SSD ,(like skiz ) a Corsair H100i cooler and a blu-ray burner.
As for whether AMD or nVidia "they" say there are pluses and minuses to each and some games run better on one and some on the other.

Yeah nerds are aggravating like that.Which is why I try to beat them up up whenever possible.

[Rart]

If money really isn't a factor you can go balls out and buy whatever the fuck you want and really can't go wrong. Most of my advice will probably be with value and noise in consideration, which you may take with a grain of salt if you dont care about those as much for certain parts/price points.

A CPU will make a marginal difference in terms of gaming performance. It will make a bigger difference in RTS's like Starcraft 2 and Civ 5, but then again those games aren't resource intensive enough that you need the best cpu anyway. A low end i5 will basically give very similar performance to the top end processor at a much cheaper price. Get the K version of the processor if you plan on overclocking.

Motherboard also makes very little difference in terms of gaming performance unless you plan on overclocking. If you aren't overclocking, getting a cheap one is perfectly fine.

Memory, I would just shoot for 16 GB, which will be plenty for pretty much anything in the forseeable future. Memory speeds are basically irrelevant, it's not worth paying a premium for faster memory. As you said, that's money much better spent into a better GPU.

In terms of graphics cards, AMD cards are currently much better value although they tend to sound like jet engines. Nvidia cards are quieter but have a little less bang for your buck, so it's up to you on that front. I would also recommend NOT going the SLI or Crossfire route unless money is REALLY no object and you're running like three monitors in eyefinity or something. It's complete overkill for current games, incredibly money inefficient, and generates a lot of heat and noise. It also can have the occasional compatibility issue and microstuttering can occur as well.

The Samsung EVO SSD's that Skiz uses are very solid. Follow the link I posted earlier the the thread to get even more performance out of it.

I personally find water coolers to be completely unnecessary unless again, you are planning on overclocking. A solid air cooler will almost always be quieter (no, liquid doesn't mean it's silent, there's still the pump/radiator) and will perform better at lower price points and with a better cooling/noise ratio. Only if you're investing a lot into a good water cooling will it out perform air cooling, and again, that's only if you plan on overclocking. No offence to Skiz, but the Corsair H series is not past that point.

PSU's and cases are really up to you. If you're find with the one's you have, re use them. Otherwise, buy another. The Fractal R4 Skiz uses is a very solid case, and I've heard a lot of good things about it. I generally feel like there isn't a really a big difference between PSU's other than noise. Getting a "platinum" rated PSU will in general cause it to make less noise since it's a lot more efficient and doesn't generate as much heat. Therefore the fans don't have to ramp up as much (and actually most platinum PSU's are "hybrid", in the sense that it'll stay passively cooled with the fan off until a certain load) and the PSU is a lot more quiet. Up to you whether that's worth the price premium.

[IdolEyes787]

You know way too much about stuff that doesn't involve getting laid or getting high for someone your age.
I suggest you burn whatever tech stuff you have and invest in a red sports car and considering your recent posts also probably a sense of humour.

Thank me later when you are destitute but happy.

Also,grasshopper since I'm vain and shallow and stuff I was really more interested in what looked cool as opposed to what actually..... worked.:mellow:

[Rart]

Go get an alienware then or something. I know you find flashing lights to be absolutely mesmerizing.

[IdolEyes787]

Does this Alienware company have any models that involve inset diamonds or gold inlay or better yet give a shock if I attempt to play RTS games?

[Artemis]

Not to disagree with Rart, no that's not true, I'm going to disagree with him on a couple of points based on personal knowledge. If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.

If you are not going to overclock most of the debate about aftermarket coolers water or air becomes invalid, although once again I am going to disagree with him on the noise level from a watercooled system. I have an Antec H2o 920 cooler which is a push pull design (2 fans) with a radiator between. The fans turn at 800 rpm and are barely audible. This cooler is connected to the motherboard via USB as well and has an app to control it so that you can monitor various functions including fan speed and and sound pressure, it is FAR quieter than other air coolers I have like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 on another system.
I build custom systems and have installed alot of the high end air coolers and prefer the watercooled solution myself. They are now alot cheaper and price competitive with aftermarket air coolers.

I agree about costs of CPU's and motherboards, if you are not going to overclock you do not need a high end motherboard, and the difference between an i5 and an i7 processor is geeky and actually not used by alot of software anyway, certainly not worth the extra outlay.

Bang for your buck the graphics weapon of choice at the moment is the NVidia 760, now I know the AMD fanboi's will be all over that but in the hardware tests and bang for your buck it is the best graphics card out there, I prefer EVGA but they aren't the cheapest of suppliers.

[IdolEyes787]

Not to disagree with Rart, no that's not true, I'm going to disagree with him on a couple of points based on personal knowledge.

Kissing girls isn't icky?
Having children does not in fact make your life better?
Don't let their close resemblance to domesticated dogs fool you,dingoes don't want to be petted?

[mjmacky]

I think this thread would be better if someone went out of their way to offend skiz. It's tricky though since he shares no convictions. However it's not impossible, for he clearly is just hiding them.

[megabyteme]

If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.

I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?

I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.

[Rart]

If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.

I'm sorry, while the other points you bring up could come down to a difference of opinion, I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one. Unless you're trying to make a RAM disk or something, there is no practicable difference in installing more RAM that you're not going to use anyway. I rarely go over 4 GB, let alone 8 or 16 GB. Maybe pre-Hynix fire when RAM was dirt cheap you could spend money on more RAM for the heck of it, but at current prices there is absolutely no reason to go over 16 gb in any consumer scenario.


This cooler is connected to the motherboard via USB as well and has an app to control it so that you can monitor various functions including fan speed and and sound pressure, it is FAR quieter than other air coolers I have like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 on another system.

Then you're not getting the right air coolers. Check silentpcreview for some good air coolers/analysis of noise. If you choose a good cooler and the right fan, you will be getting the same/if not better performance as low end water coolers at half the price, and at lower noise levels since there are no extra radiators/pumps making extra noise. Low end watercooling is simply not worth the price, it's a marketing gimmick similar to high DPI mice to get you to buy things you don't need. You really need to devote money into a good custom built loop to really appreciate the benefit that comes from water cooling.



Bang for your buck the graphics weapon of choice at the moment is the NVidia 760, now I know the AMD fanboi's will be all over that but in the hardware tests and bang for your buck it is the best graphics card out there, I prefer EVGA but they aren't the cheapest of suppliers.

I personally think at that price segment the AMD 270X is a better choice as it's very close in performance for 50 bucks less. I still prefer Nvidia myself though because in the higher end AMD cards tend to become jet engines, which isn't worth the advantage in bang for your buck to me.

Regardless of what video card though I tend to prefer MSI as the video card performance between vendors is practically the same and the MSI cards (the red gaming ones, not the yellow hawk/lightning ones) are by far the quietest out of all the vendors. I have heard good things about EVGA warranty/support though. I don't believe EVGA does AMD though if you go that route.

[IdolEyes787]

But I want my gaming computer to be all flashing lights and jet engine noise just like my overpriced and equally unnecessary sports car.
Obviously I have erred and need to ask advice in a proper manly forum and not one populated by nerds with some strange and deep rooted anti-noise prejudice.

Anyway I can't be 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that if the S.E.A.L.S. portrayed in Lone Survivor had run into kids like Rart and not just evil Taliban type ones they would have been more inclined to killing them on the spot instead of showing mercy and foolishly releasing them and things would have turn out a lot better.


I think this thread would be better if someone went out of their way to offend skiz.

I try but I'm only one man.

[Rart]

Here you go

https://build.falcon-nw.com/Configurator/Configurator/RenderConfigurationSummaryPDF?quotationId=144255

Lacking flashing lights, but I'm sure telling people how much you spent on it will make up for that.

[Artemis]

If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.

I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?

I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.

This was a simple observation from my own build, when new I purchased 16GB of G.Skill Ripjaws 1866 DDR3 RAM and an OCZ SSD, a month later I had the spare cash for the other 16GB, the access times on the SSD jumped and in performance tests (the standard windows ones and others) there was a marked improvement in SSD performance, the only difference was the addition of extra RAM but even with the standard Windows 7 performance test the hard drive access maxed out at 7.9 and in fact the performance limiting factor of the machine according to the tests was/is the graphics card since I still haven't upgraded it, it still comes in at 7.7 though.

The difference between Rart and his reading and me, is the experience of having installed the extra RAM and seeing the performance difference. Now why did I add the extra RAM in the first place, well I built this machine for a purpose, media encoding and it is something that it does very quickly, it maxes out the resources while encoding, but it is evilly fast at doing the job I built it for.

Another point with my system is that it is based on an LGA 2011 processor which it is recommended (by Intel themselves) to use water cooling with. The LGA 2011 CPU's are not supplied with an HSF and Intel themselves retail an Asetek designed water cooler for the LGA 2011 the RTS2011LC, with the high TDP of 130W these CPU's need alot of cooling and on other X79 (LGA 2011) based systems I have dealt with that have an air cooler installed the fan r.p.m. is quite high because of the need to disperse the heat.

Another case in point was a friend who was dissatisfied with the cooler he had in his system, since he felt it was noisy and opted for a water cooler instead. The air cooler in question was a CoolerMaster V8 on an i7 2600k with a mild overclock. I did the installation of the water cooler (another Antec) and on his system there was a drop in the CPU temperature and a drop in the sound pressure, from a water cooler that was a comparable price to the air cooler that it replaced, once again a direct comparison I have seen from an installation I helped with.

I will repeat again though that these are cases where more than standard cooling was required, if in Idol's case he is planning on keeping the machine stock then the debate is moot.

And we are still waiting for the fatuous comments to die down in that direction and for him to give some relevant input as to what he thinks regarding a build and whether he would overclock the system.

[Rart]

I'm sorry but I've yet to see any case where RAM over how much is needed by the programs you currently have open has had any sort of performance benefit. You'd have to have an absurd amount of programs open just to hit 8 GB, let alone 16 or 32. Media encoding is also largely CPU bound and excess RAM will not help in that regard. If you can find me some sort of enthusiast article/benchmark that proves otherwise I'll change my mind, but until then anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me otherwise. There was probably another factor at work.

Even if the extra RAM provided some sort of minor benefit, you'd get a far bigger benefit from investing into a higher capacity SSD (more NAND dies = more channels in parallel = better performance), or raid0-ing two smaller drives.

And since you brough up the Antec 920 H2O, I dug up a review on it (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1214-page8.html). It gets worst temps than air coolers that are cheaper and quieter. Another factor to take into consideration is that those tests are done in controlled test beds. In a normal system, you're giving up a case fan to install one of those water coolers, which is going to hurt overall temps even more. Low end water cooling simply isn't worth it, it's a marketing gimmick perpetuated by companies because they realize there are a lot of people that automatically assume liquid cooling is automatically better, when it really isn't until you start investing time and money into a good custom loop.

[IdolEyes787]

And we are still waiting for the fatuous comments to die down in that direction and for him to give some relevant input as to what he thinks regarding a build and whether he would overclock the system.

Not going to happen,nerd.The fact that there is no laughter in Hell isn't by mere coincidence.

Btw nice well written ghey computer related post.So much so that I only died a little bit reading it. :)

[Artemis]

I'm sorry but I've yet to see any case where RAM over how much is needed by the programs you currently have open has had any sort of performance benefit. You'd have to have an absurd amount of programs open just to hit 8 GB, let alone 16 or 32. Media encoding is also largely CPU bound and excess RAM will not help in that regard. If you can find me some sort of enthusiast article/benchmark that proves otherwise I'll change my mind, but until then anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me otherwise. There was probably another factor at work.

Even if the extra RAM provided some sort of minor benefit, you'd get a far bigger benefit from investing into a higher capacity SSD (more NAND dies = more channels in parallel = better performance), or raid0-ing two smaller drives.

And since you brough up the Antec 920 H2O, I dug up a review on it (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1214-page8.html). It gets worst temps than air coolers that are cheaper and quieter. Another factor to take into consideration is that those tests are done in controlled test beds. In a normal system, you're giving up a case fan to install one of those water coolers, which is going to hurt overall temps even more. Low end water cooling simply isn't worth it, it's a marketing gimmick perpetuated by companies because they realize there are a lot of people that automatically assume liquid cooling is automatically better, when it really isn't until you start investing time and money into a good custom loop.

In my own case first, I take it you understand X79 architecture? The MINIMUM amount of RAM you can install on the system is 16GB, the maximum is 32GB or 64GB depending on whether the motherboard is a single or dual bank design. There is a thread on the build lurking somewhere in this very sub forum and pics of the PC in the post pics thread.

I once again reiterate too that Intel do not supply an HSF with the LGA 2011 cpu's you must purchase an aftermarket one and at the time I purchased mine they were recommending water cooling, even having their own water cooler for the LGA 2011 cpu's (as an aftermarket add on) but no HSF.

I'm so glad you found a negative review to back up your point, this is the internet, there are people on here that fervently believe the earth is flat and I usually try to find at least two or thee differing reviews/opinions to find a balance. At the time of purchase the Antec 920 was rated very highly and I liked and still do, the ability to monitor and control the device directly via the USB interface and included software. I can create a custom profile, control fan speeds and monitor temps, fan and pump speeds and the ambient noise.

Another advantage to water cooling is space, this may not seem like much but air coolers have been getting larger and larger over time in an effort to dissipate heat and in the process decrease the airflow within the case. Without this large expanse of aluminium fins there is more space and better airflow.

I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin cooler on another system, it is so large that it actually covers most of the RAM banks, some of the air coolers out there are starting to get silly.

Additionally there are 4 PCs (there are other computers, but not being used as PC's) in this house, all have aftermarket cooling solutions, the water cooled one is the quietest.

[Rart]

In my own case first, I take it you understand X79 architecture? The MINIMUM amount of RAM you can install on the system is 16GB, the maximum is 32GB or 64GB depending on whether the motherboard is a single or dual bank design. There is a thread on the build lurking somewhere in this very sub forum and pics of the PC in the post pics thread.

...Ok? That doesn't change the fact that having RAM in excess of how much your active programs will actually use is essentially useless. If you consistently use more than 16 GB of RAM thats fine, but there's no way in hell a simple gaming PC is ever going to get remotely close to that.



I'm so glad you found a negative review to back up your point, this is the internet, there are people on here that fervently believe the earth is flat and I usually try to find at least two or thee differing reviews/opinions to find a balance.


I didn't find some random newegg review online. It's an extremely reputable site that easily has the most sophisticated and accurate testing methodology for cooling and noise out of any site I've seen. Even Anandtech, which I consider to be by far the best and most in depth review site by far, doesn't hold a candle to this site when it comes to specifically testing cooling. The Antec 920 objectively has worse temps and more noise than air coolers at a higher price. There's really not much in terms of sway, it isn't really someones "opinion".


At the time of purchase the Antec 920 was rated very highly and I liked and still do, the ability to monitor and control the device directly via the USB interface and included software. I can create a custom profile, control fan speeds and monitor temps, fan and pump speeds and the ambient noise.

That's fine. I'd argue that there's plenty of other ways to accomplish that through third party programs such as Speedfan if you chose to go with another cooler, but if you like the streamlined approach that comes with that cooler, that's a perfectly valid reason for buying it.


Another advantage to water cooling is space, this may not seem like much but air coolers have been getting larger and larger over time in an effort to dissipate heat and in the process decrease the airflow within the case. Without this large expanse of aluminium fins there is more space and better airflow. I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin cooler on another system, it is so large that it actually covers most of the RAM banks, some of the air coolers out there are starting to get silly.

That's true. Water coolers will certainly have an advantage in terms of compactness compared to air coolers, which is especially useful if you're going for an HTPC/matx/mitx build. On the airflow front... I'd argue that you'd be getting worse airflow overall with a water cooler. The fact that you lose a case fan with a water cooler is a much bigger deal than any minor impedance that comes with a tower heatsink. As for the RAM issue, any ram with low profile heatsinks will fit just fine, the large heatsinks are nigh pointless on memory. Even if you are hellbent on overclocking your RAM (which will provide negligible benefits in and of itself) and want those sticks with those ridiculous heatsinks, there are plenty of excellent air coolers that are either thinner or have asymmetrical designs to get around that issue.



Additionally there are 4 PCs (there are other computers, but not being used as PC's) in this house, all have aftermarket cooling solutions, the water cooled one is the quietest.

That's a ridiculous comparison. That's like saying you installed an AMD 7850 on those 4 computers and a GTX 780 on the other computer and the Nvidia computer performed better, so Nvidia must always be better. If you get good air coolers with good fans, it will easily outperform these "pre built" liquid coolers.

[Artemis]

You seem to have a short attention span, I explained earlier that the CPU on my water cooled system has a TDP of 130w, by far the highest thermal output of the four systems I was referring to, it also works the hardest yet it is the quietest.

I have a question though, have you actually installed/dealt with a closed loop water cooler? I am just wondering whether your opinion of them as a gimmick is based on what you have read or whether you have actually had any experience with them?

[IdolEyes787]

138997

[Artemis]

:wank:

[Rart]

You seem to have a short attention span, I explained earlier that the CPU on my water cooled system has a TDP of 130w, by far the highest thermal output of the four systems I was referring to, it also works the hardest yet it is the quietest.


I remember that, it still doesn't make it a valid comparison. You could be using a god awful cooler on a lower TDP system and the Antec 920 on the 130w system. Just saying "I have an air cooler on this pc, a water cooler on this other one that runs hotter, the water cooler one is quieter" doesn't provide any sort of information to draw a solid conclusion that your water cooler is better than all air coolers.





I have a question though, have you actually installed/dealt with a closed loop water cooler? I am just wondering whether your opinion of them as a gimmick is based on what you have read or whether you have actually had any experience with them?

Nope, I haven't. Mainly because basically every reputable cooling review I've read points toward the fact that you can get better, quieter performance for cheaper from an air cooler than from these prebuilt, low end water coolers. I don't exactly have money to burn.

Let me ask you something then. Have you ever tested one of the SPCR vetted heatsinks against your water cooler, using the exact same setup and hardware, exact same fans, and exact same RPM and undergoing the exact same tests and found the liquid cooler to have better temps and be quieter?

You can't use anecdotal evidence of varying, non controlled setups with potentially subpar air coolers and come to the conclusion that your water cooler is undoubtedly better.

I'd prefer evidence from controlled, tested, and constant environment over anecdotal evidence anyday. Maybe that's where you and I differ.

[IdolEyes787]

I
Nope, I haven't. Mainly because basically every reputable cooling review I've read points toward the fact that you can get better, quieter performance for cheaper from an air cooler than from these prebuilt, low end water coolers.

Everyone told the Wright brothers that weird contraption would never fly.
I think we can both agree that it's a good thing that they listened to the "experts".

[Rart]

Not the same thing. That was a largely speculative assumption on something that was new, untested, and unknown at the time.

All I'm referring to are boring, controlled, measured, and repeatable data points.

If Artemis turns out to be the next Wright Brothers of computing though, I stand corrected.

[IdolEyes787]

It's exactly the same thing as I was putting you in the place of the ( in most cases merely) regurgitating naysayers and Art in the place of someone with actual hands-on experience.:)

[mjmacky]

I would prefer all of my air coolers to be shaped like ninja shuriken. That way, they appear dangerous and cool. Get it? It's cooler.

[Rart]

It's exactly the same thing as I was putting you in the place of the ( in most cases merely) regurgitating naysayers and Art in the place of someone with actual hands-on experience.:)

Except they aren't simply "naysayers" doubting something that's never been done like with the Wright Brothers. The people writing these articles have more "hands on experience" then Artemis and me combined, and have the unique place of being able to test a plethora of air and water coolers, under controlled conditions rather than through anecdotal evidence of a couple of builds.

And while I haven't specifically used a closed water loop cooler, nor has Artemis really had experience with the well recieved air coolers in order to make a valid comparison. A Cooler Master V8 thats more concerned with colored LEDs than efficient cooling doesn't count.

Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.

[IdolEyes787]

I would prefer all of my air coolers to be shaped like ninja shuriken. That way, they appear dangerous and cool. Get it? It's cooler.



Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.

Fuck logic directly in the ear,I'm going with this http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/

It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.

Problem one solved now I just need to buy a good clock so I can over it.



Except they aren't simply "naysayers"

It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.

[Rart]

It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.

Mmmmmm nope. Guess I'm not cultured enough :(. Maybe when I'm graying and decrepit like you your humor will grow on me.

[IdolEyes787]

If I was stupid or vain enough to post a picture on the interweb you'd be eating your words right about now.

OK I'm vain enough,just marginally not that stupid.

[A]

If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.

I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?

I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.
Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games). All modern games tries to load as much assets it can into RAM (for faster (pre-)rendering from/to GPU, computations from/to CPU and gameplay), so more RAM is always good. If it can't stuff the RAM with everything, it offloads not so immediate stuff into harddisk, in which case an SSD helps.

[Artemis]

Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.

Fuck logic directly in the ear,I'm going with this http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/

It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.

Problem one solved now I just need to buy a good clock so I can over it.



Except they aren't simply "naysayers"

It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.

If you read back you will see that I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin into a machine, it is even more gigantic in person, and if I threw it at you it would hurt alot, considering it weighs in at a tender 1.25 KG, since it was mounted in a standard not a gaming case there was very little room left over and in fact I had to remove a chassis fan to get the beast to shoehorn in. :blink:


Now back to Rart, I notice you are quoting 'several coolers' throughout your replies, you have yet to mention a single one, just your website reviews so I was actually curious about your own PC it's specs please, and the steps you have taken to mod it to become a silent PC. Also any 'anecdotal' information from other custom builds you have spec'ed or built would help.

I'll even go first if you like, the thread for the X79 build I am discussing survived the board's bad aids last year it can be found here:
http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/447038-Speaking-of-Watercooling


The reason why I ask this is that this is a forum, we discuss things here and people put up 'anecdotal' experience if it is relevant as part of the discussion, otherwise someone would ask a question and whoever was first off the mark with a handy review would post it and that would be that. You must also remember that many websites put up paid for advertising results first including your favourite search engine, so it is always wise to get differing opinions, that is also the purpose of a discussion, and you have not yet given any other information apart from parroting a website.

[Rart]

I'm using a Prolimatech Megalehems with an attached Scythe Slipstream. It's dead silent and based on the temps, the PWM alters the fan to 400 RPM which is pretty much the lowest it can go without flat out turning off, so I'd say it's working pretty well. Even telling you all this is pointless though since I'm using an an i5 2500k. You can just say that my processor's TDP is way lower than yours and thus isn't comparable.

That's why I've been "parroting" the website so much as you put it. You've heard of the scientific method right? You have to control all the other variables, otherwise you can't be sure it's actually the cooler thats worse, it could be a variety of other factors that are different. You could be running a louder fan in your air cooled system, you could be running different components, etc. etc.

That's why review sites are so important. Since it's their job, they can devote the time and effort it takes to painstakingly control every element and keep all the variables, aside from the cooler, constant. They can make sure the exact same test bed is used, the exact same case, the exact same fans, the exact same drives, the exact same graphics card, etc. etc. Sure anecdotal evidence is fine to bring up in a forum based on discussion, and is incredibly useful for less explored, niche subjects. But if it is available, a solid, methodical review done with sound procedures should trump that anyday.

Also I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit my source. It's not some site I googled for 5 seconds and clicked a sponsored result for. It's a site I've been using for years, and is easily the most comprehensive and detail oriented site when it comes to reviewing anything cooling related (also fun fact: The owner of the site was personally asked by Antec to help design their P180 series, so if they were in cahoots with anyone, it'd be Antec). If you can find any other from a reputable site that shows Antec 920 outpacing top tier air coolers such as the the Thermalright HR02 (in push-pull) or the Noctua NH-C14, we can have debate over which source is correct, but otherwise I'd say the burden of proof is still on you.

[Artemis]

I'm using a Prolimatech Megalehems with an attached Scythe Slipstream. It's dead silent and based on the temps, the PWM alters the fan to 400 RPM which is pretty much the lowest it can go without flat out turning off, so I'd say it's working pretty well. Even telling you all this is pointless though since I'm using an an i5 2500k. You can just say that my processor's TDP is way lower than yours and thus isn't comparable.

That's why I've been "parroting" the website so much as you put it. You've heard of the scientific method right? You have to control all the other variables, otherwise you can't be sure it's actually the cooler thats worse, it could be a variety of other factors that are different. You could be running a louder fan in your air cooled system, you could be running different components, etc. etc.

That's why review sites are so important. Since it's their job, they can devote the time and effort it takes to painstakingly control every element and keep all the variables, aside from the cooler, constant. They can make sure the exact same test bed is used, the exact same case, the exact same fans, the exact same drives, the exact same graphics card, etc. etc. Sure anecdotal evidence is fine to bring up in a forum based on discussion, and is incredibly useful for less explored, niche subjects. But if it is available, a solid, methodical review done with sound procedures should trump that anyday.

Also I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit my source. It's not some site I googled for 5 seconds and clicked a sponsored result for. It's a site I've been using for years, and is easily the most comprehensive and detail oriented site when it comes to reviewing anything cooling related (also fun fact: The owner of the site was personally asked by Antec to help design their P180 series, so if they were in cahoots with anyone, it'd be Antec). If you can find any other from a reputable site that shows Antec 920 outpacing top tier air coolers such as the the Thermalright HR02 (in push-pull) or the Noctua NH-C14, we can have debate over which source is correct, but otherwise I'd say the burden of proof is still on you.

I'm not trying so hard to discredit your source, the arrogance of the 'anecdotal evidence' comments from you since you have absolutely no idea of my background in the computer industry, which includes alot more than 'a couple of builds',is not a good way to enter into a discourse.

As to the Antec 920 outpacing top tier coolers no it is a. now an older discontinued model, and b. based on standard Asetek design hardware with some tweaking so roughly comparable to the Corsair CLC's of the same era, it was a first attempt, a very good first attempt, but is now an obsolete design.

As I have stated more than once (yes I'm quite sure I've repeated myself) Intel themselves recommended liquid cooling for the LGA 2011 processor and released their own closed loop cooling solution, the only solution they provide for the LGA 2011. Now I researched this and found out it was a standard basic Asetek single fan design with a fairly small radiator so is comparable to low end Corsair offerings, after doing research at the time Corsair and Antec products were far ahead and for me for reasons previously stated the Antec h2o 920 was a clear winner.

This is the third time I have written further paragraphs in response only to have them disappear and be replaced by the last auto save point so I'm not going to try for a fourth.

[IdolEyes787]

Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games).

Not to say that you lack keen powers of observation but I'm essentially playing one now.

Anyway I think Shakespeare put it best.
"All the world's a game
And all the men and women merely tiny pixel thingies
Waiting for the inevitable hard drive crash".

Shakespeare was sage like that and that's why I admire her so much.

[A]

Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games).

Not to say that you lack keen powers of observation but I'm essentially playing one now.

Anyway I think Shakespeare put it best.
"All the world's a game
And all the men and women merely tiny pixel thingies
Waiting for the inevitable hard drive crash".

Shakespeare was sage like that and that's why I admire her so much.
You have been pulling quotes from all over the place and updating it for the new millennium. What are you so up-an-up about?

[mjmacky]

It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.

Actually it would just make it a specialized assassin, and a more proper analogy would be a hand model. However, it's better than a hand model counterpart because it assassinates hurricanes and typhoons and shit. So, like, a labia model.

[Rart]

I'm not trying so hard to discredit your source, the arrogance of the 'anecdotal evidence' comments from you since you have absolutely no idea of my background in the computer industry, which includes alot more than 'a couple of builds',is not a good way to enter into a discourse.


Then talk more about how your experience in the industry has led you to the conclusion that these closed looped water coolers are undoubtedly better then these top tier air coolers. What have you done/tested with comparable setups to come to that conclusion.

All you've been saying in this thread is "hey I made some builds, of wildly varying configurations, but in my experience, the water cooler is better". You're asking me to believe you over a website that's sole job has been to compare these types of coolers for well over a decade with very little actual data to back up your claims.

If I sound arrogant by saying "anecdotal evidence", I apologize, as that was not my intention. It's not a reflection of my opinion of you, at all. But based on what you've said in this thread and my knowledge of the English language what you've given is just that, anecdotal evidence. I would say that to anyone, no matter what their computer background.



As to the Antec 920 outpacing top tier coolers no it is a. now an older discontinued model, and b. based on standard Asetek design hardware with some tweaking so roughly comparable to the Corsair CLC's of the same era, it was a first attempt, a very good first attempt, but is now an obsolete design.


The Antec 920 isn't discontinued. It's still being sold, and is still Antec's top tier model for water cooling.



As I have stated more than once (yes I'm quite sure I've repeated myself) Intel themselves recommended liquid cooling for the LGA 2011 processor and released their own closed loop cooling solution, the only solution they provide for the LGA 2011. Now I researched this and found out it was a standard basic Asetek single fan design with a fairly small radiator so is comparable to low end Corsair offerings, after doing research at the time Corsair and Antec products were far ahead and for me for reasons previously stated the Antec h2o 920 was a clear winner.

Yes you have stated that multiple times, and I haven't exactly responded to it cause I didn't find it particularly relevant to the argument. It's like saying "EA recommends AMD GPUs for BF4, so AMD is better". It doesn't exactly show me that water coolers are better.

[megabyteme]

Cawk much, rart? I asked Art about his reasoning behind using the large amount of RAM* because he is the one countless members have turned to regarding machine builds, troubleshooting, networking, etc... for years now. He has always either known the answer(s) off the top of his head, or posted where to find the info. Always.

Now you want to challenge him on his home turf with "knowledge" gained from an enthusiast builder site. Do you seriously expect to win here with your 5-page "in-depth" article on the Sucknado®?


*Which was answered easily- he followed the manufacturer's suggestion, then added to that amount because he is doing a large amount of encoding with that machine. Under his needs, with the hardware involved, it makes sense, And, if Art says there is a significant improvement, I would bet money on it. He is neither an uneducated kid, nor an "enthusiast" looking to blow money unnecessarily.

[Rart]

For fucks sake.

This is what a forum is for.

Discussing shit.

I'm passionate about technology, and Artemis and I have differing opinions on a topic. So just because Artemis is some magical guru of technology, I should just sit on my ass and blindly believe everything he says, rather than actually trying to engage in a debate, which is, you know, what a forum is for?

I saw your post on ERB. Do you know why people don't post here anymore? It's cause in every section aside from the NZB section, 90% of the posts and threads have devolved into nothing more than sarcastic remarks between the clique of FST and newer members will have no idea what the fuck is going on, and no meaningful discussions can ever be made.

I joined this forum specifically cause it wasn't a gigantic fucking circlejerk like the majority of other filesharing sites. Now it doesn't even seem that different. I challenge Artemis on what he says an I all get are remarks that I'm "arrogant" and a "cawk" for not blindly trusting him and bringing up my own opinion.

It seems pretty clear from the way the thread is going that no one is actually interested in having a lively debate about how these hardware parts will affect performance. Even idol who originally brought up the topic refuses to reply in even the most basic of manners into how he'll actually be using this computer. I guess I'll fuck off now so you guys can continue exchanging sarcastic banter with eachother rather then actually discussing hardware and I won't upset the balance. Hey, if that's what you guys joined the forum for, more power to you. Who am I to say how you use this forum. All I know is that's not what I joined the forum so I'll just find somewhere else to go.

[megabyteme]

:lol::happy: So my opinion on your efforts to go head-to-head with the multi-decade experienced professional on his area of expertise is not allowed?

It is good to have you back, Rart. I mean that sincerely. This is an uphill battle, though.

[Rart]

Where the hell did I say your opinion wasn't allowed? Your opinion is always allowed. I never said it wasn't. I just disagree with it.

All I'm saying is that your opinion goes against the very reason I joined this forum. Just because he's experienced means I shouldn't try to engage in a debate over things I'm passionate about, in god forbid a forum of all places, where the description of the forum is "Discuss everything related to Software and Hardware"?

Even if I haven't been particularly active recently due to time constraints, I have lurked the forum quite frequently. It's indicative of the general trend this forum has taken, and the deterioration of the quality of posts on the forum. Almost every thread outside of the NZB forum eventually devolves into pointless drivel and sarcastic banter impossible for new members to understand, and you guys wonder why there isn't as much activity as there used to be. Sorry for trying to bring some discussion into this site. If this is the mindset that even established members such as yourself take, I don't particularly have any motivation to contribute to the site anymore. Clearly the main members of the forum have different goals in mind of what they want to get out of the site, and that's fine. It's just different from mine, so I don't really see a point in continuing to frequent the forum.

[IdolEyes787]

Your opinion is always allowed. I never said it wasn't. I just disagree with it.



You're allowed to live,I just disagree with it.

[mjmacky]

All of you bitches are worrying too much about noise. Try to keep your cpu temps within 25 °C of room temp without having to spend a lot of money and cutting a hole in your case. Everything makes noise, refrigerators, air conditioners, shitty background programming that the significant other watches, and even the 12-year-old girl whose cries for help have been insulated by layers of duct tape can still make a ruckus.

Get passionate about something else besides noise reduction. Are you going to spend the rest of your lives sound proofing everything? Spend some time in the quietest room on earth, where you can listen to all the movements in your body, then tell me about your noise issues. On second thought, it would still be boring, so cancel that reservation.

[mjmacky]

P.S. I didn't actually read most of it, so if I am by chance off context, get in line for a lick of my balls. Yeah, my balls, my floppy, noisy balls.

[Rart]

It's a personal preference really but noise wasn't one of the main reason I advocate for air cooling over cheap liquid cooling. After all most coolers will pretty much sound the same if you attach a good solid fan to it rather than a shitty one more concerned with flashy LEDs and having the highest max rpm (ie the type Idol would buy).

I think it's certainly worth keeping in mind for GPUs though as they can produce a lot more heat. Buy a reference design AMD 290 or 290X and you'll have your own personal blow dryer with you everytime you turn on your computer.

[mjmacky]

Raise your hand if you object to being blown.

[IdolEyes787]

139124

[Skiz]

I'm thinking about building a new PC too as I'm starting to get some of those annoying "Won't run on your computer" notices.

As I basically only use the computer's power for games from what I've read probably going with the i5 7670k...

I don't think Intel makes a 7670. Do you mean the i5-4670K? If so, I'd definitely support the decision to grab that CPU with the idea of gaming in mind. It's a beast.

If the PC will genuinely be used primarily for internets and gaming, 8GB is likely still enough RAM, though you'll obviously want/need newer sticks for the motherboard you choose. I chose to go with 32 gigs as I use PS CS6 and Premiere Pro a lot and there's a pretty solid benefit there. If you don't regularly run something that would utilize the additional RAM, skip it. You can also go back and buy another 8GB stick later on if you feel your needs have changed.

As for cases, the Cosmos 2 seems like the definition of overkill. I guess if you just like it then fair enough, but otherwise why get a case that can hold thirteen hard drives and 4-way SLI? Not to mention it's size alone. That Level 10 case looks like a dusting nightmare.

I love the Fractal R4 case I picked. My runner-up was the Corsair 550D (https://www.google.com/search?q=fractal+r4+vs+corsair+550d&espv=210&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=noHUUp-qFoLcyQHijYHgDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1075#es_sm=122&espv=210&q=corsair+550d&tbm=isch). I even gave serious consideration to the Silverstone FT03 (https://www.google.com/search?q=vertical+pc+case&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_4DUUoeVAar4yQHzg4DADg&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1075#es_sm=122&espv=210&q=silverstone%20ft03&revid=699781593&tbm=isch&imgdii=_). I suppose a lot of what you decide on these days depends on whether you care about cable management or not. It was important to me but if you don't care at all, then I'd prob just reuse the case you already have. After you take everything out of it, take it outside and give it a real good dusting with some wet rags and compressed air and shine it up again before you start putting new parts back in.

The SSD will almost certainly be the most noticeable change. Sometimes when I install small apps and such, I sit and wait for them to show up on the screen after double clicking them, only to realize a few moments later that they installed so fast, I literally didn't even see anything on the screen. Excellent technology. I patiently watched Slickdeals.net for a few weeks until I saw a price I liked on the Samsung EVO. Great drive.

As stated, I grabbed the EVGA 760GTX Superclocked card. I thought it was the best bang for the buck but if you're going to be doing some considerable gaming you may end up going a bit better than that.

There's a gillion motherboards to choose from. If you're focused on gaming I'd say any of the Z77 or Z87 boards would be a good fit. They have a wide range of prices so you'll have to look at what you want. The Sabertooth I purchased certainly has more than what I needed but I also really liked the look of it so I was willing to shill out a bit more than I prob should have. I'm very happy with it tho and the BIOS on it is exceptional.

As for the H100i, I'm ...sorta happy with it. It does it's job really well and that's the important part. It makes more noise than I'd like but it isn't quite what I'd call "loud". It likes to rev up for like 1 sec every few minutes or so for seemingly no apparent reason. It's a fairly popular thing to swap out the fans with Noctua fans to silence it, but I'm not ready to let go of my all black interior just yet. Unless you're planning to overclock or just want the look of the H100i, the stock cooler should be OK. I knew I'd be overclocking and that's why I went with it. I'm at 4.5GHz and staying very cool.

[Rart]

It's a fairly popular thing to swap out the fans with Noctua fans to silence it, but I'm not ready to let go of my all black interior just yet.

The Scythe Slipstreams (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=scythe%20slipstream&sprefix=scythe+sl%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ascythe%20slipstream) are pretty solid fans that are completely black.

[Skiz]

It's a fairly popular thing to swap out the fans with Noctua fans to silence it, but I'm not ready to let go of my all black interior just yet.

The Scythe Slipstreams (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=scythe%20slipstream&sprefix=scythe+sl%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Ascythe%20slipstream) are pretty solid fans that are completely black.

There's a few different choices out there that I've found. Some quite pricey. Scythe Gentle Typhoons, (you also mentioned the Slipstreams which I hadn't seen before, so thanks) Noiseblocker eLoops, Noctua NF, GELID Solutions. The Antec TrueQuiet Pro 120 Low is supposed to be the best but I don't think they attach the right way to work with the H100i. Noctua is also supposed to have a line of black fans sometime here in Q1, so I'm being patient for those.

[IdolEyes787]

I don't think Intel makes a 7670. Do you mean the i5-4670K? If so, I'd definitely support the decision to grab that CPU with the idea of gaming in mind. It's a beast.



I could blame the mistake on my own stupidity but we both know that it's really the nerd's fault for not giving tech things proper normal names like Harold and Esmeralda.

Anyway please ignore my flip answers and know that everyone with the obvious exclusion of Rart , has my sincere thanks.
Now please forgive me as I'm just going to ignore all advise sage or rart-like and just get two of anything that is really expensive and pray to the God of mammon that it's fits together and/or works.
Although let's be real and I will be well satisfied if it simply looks cool and impresses people who don't know anything.:)

I'm also going to attach baseball cards to the fins of the fans like you do on the spokes of a bike wheel so I can dream I'm riding an Indian motorcycle and not having a conversation on Twitter with a 12 year old who's pretending to be 27.
I assume this is what Steve McQueen would do in the same situation.

[mjmacky]

139124

139310

[Artemis]

Actually I reread what Rart had to say about the Antec 920 CLC's but he is wrong. They are not the current top model at all, the current models are the 650, 950 and the 1250 CLC's any H20 920's still lurking around are old stock.

[Rart]

Ok. I misread the Antec site and stand corrected.

That wasn't really the focus of my post though and I still stand by everything I said unless you can provide any sort of data to the contrary.

[IdolEyes787]

-Fractal R4 (Titanium w/ window)
-Asus Sabertooth Z87
-Intel i7-4770K
-Corsair H100i cooler
-32GB DDR3 2400 1866 GSkill Sniper Gaming Series
-EVGA GTX760 Superclocked
-Samsung SSD EVO 500GB
-Corsair AX760 fully modular PSU
-Windows 8.1 Pro-64



I settled on The Fractal Arc XL and probably going with the Asus Maximus VI Hero, Corsair Hydro 105 and a EVGA GTX 780 'cause I can currently get a good deal on one.
Now I'm only ruminating on the memory and although I get the basics of speed/latency trade-offs I'm a little worried about getting anything that isn't native 1.5v. :unsure:

[Artemis]

I would hold back for a couple of weeks on the purchase of the graphics card. NVidia are about to release the next series this month, so a, the price on the existing 'top of the line' 780 will drop, or b you will find a very nice introductory offer on the new card that cannot resist.....

[Skiz]

-Fractal R4 (Titanium w/ window)
-Asus Sabertooth Z87
-Intel i7-4770K
-Corsair H100i cooler
-32GB DDR3 2400 1866 GSkill Sniper Gaming Series
-EVGA GTX760 Superclocked
-Samsung SSD EVO 500GB
-Corsair AX760 fully modular PSU
-Windows 8.1 Pro-64



I settled on The Fractal Arc XL and probably going with the Asus Maximus VI Hero, Corsair Hydro 105 and a EVGA GTX 780 'cause I can currently get a good deal on one.
Now I'm only ruminating on the memory and although I get the basics of speed/latency trade-offs I'm a little worried about getting anything that isn't native 1.5v. :unsure:

Solid choices.

As for memory, if your board has an issue with it, the BIOS would tell you, you would get a beep code, and with the case of that and other newer priceir boards, when you try and input dangerous settings, the LED warning light turns red. Most RAM speeds are advertised and labeled based upon their XMP profiles and most XMP profiles for i5 and i7 RAM is 1.65. Almost certainly you'll be able to run 1.65V RAM even if it initially posts at 1.5V. Insert one stick at a time and check your BIOS clock speeds. If it's on XMP Auto, or whatever your boards comparable setting is, you should be fine.

All that said, don't worry about voltage as much as how much and what speed.

[IdolEyes787]

Thanks.

I'm thinking towards the same Snipers that you got ( Sorry but fairly cheap/good for 16GB) or the 2133hx Ripjaw Z(less cheap/infinitesimally better).
Also didn't mention but obviously a SSD as supposedly,that would be the most noticeable upgrade.

Honestly though all I'm really looking to do is build something in around $2000 that will be in the ballpark of semi-relevant for the next 4-5 years and all the over-thinking on my part is sort of silly.

[Skiz]

That build will be very relevant for longer than that. All you should need is to swap out GPUs every 2 years and you'll be good for quite some time.

[Rart]

I settled on The Fractal Arc XL and probably going with the Asus Maximus VI Hero, Corsair Hydro 105 and a EVGA GTX 780 'cause I can currently get a good deal on one.
Now I'm only ruminating on the memory and although I get the basics of speed/latency trade-offs I'm a little worried about getting anything that isn't native 1.5v. :unsure:

Are you planning on using an E-ATX motherboard at some point in the future? Otherwise the Fractal Arc XL is pretty... large unless you need the size for a specific reason (tons of hdds/pcie cards etc). The Fractal R4 that Skiz uses is a really solid case otherwise that's cheaper and more compact.

Also RAM speeds are essentially irrelevant. Get whatever's on sale when you purchase your parts. The money you save from buying cheaper RAM will get you way, way, more performance if you invest it into a better GPU, SSD, or CPU.

Also I second what art said as well. Unless you're getting a really really good deal on that GTX 780 or you absolutely need your PC now, I would recommend waiting for the new Nvidia cards to come out before purchasing a GPU.

[IdolEyes787]

I need a large case because from what I understand of stuff(that being basicatly a loot),besides being a more humane way of operating ,free-range tends to produce better product.

Also I have read about that rat study and I'm afraid if I pack the components in too tightly them may begin to eat each other.:mellow:

Btw I'm pretty sure in terms of actual "need", I don't actually need a computer,so fuck off.

[Rart]

Btw I'm pretty sure in terms of actual "need", I don't actually need a computer,so fuck off.

Well I'm pretty sure you work in the escort business and your frontend is online cause you're too fucking grotesque to get any money after people see your face so...

I think you do kind of need it. Otherwise there's no one to hire you to be their bitch for a night. And other than being someone's bitch you have no comprehension of how to maintain a living.

[IdolEyes787]

Unbelievably,when angered,you make even less sense than you normally do.:)

[Rart]

It's ok. For those with limited comprehension I've provided a translation.

You're a manwhore.

[mjmacky]

Compliment doesn't match the context

[IdolEyes787]

Got my new compewter built, more or less ( still have to swap form HDDs and tweak some settings and other minor stuff) . So basically as it turned out.....

Fractual Arc XL case -big but still a little smaller than the old HAF X so basically,fuck you.
Asus Maximus VI Hero motherboard
2X8 GB GSkill Ripjaws X 1866 - mostly because it was on clearance
GeForce GTX 760 SC ACX - waiting for the unknown is dumb and if worst comes to worse this didn't take a huge chunk of the wallet.Kind of debated between this and the MSI but in the end,Evga software turned the tide.
Samsung Evo 250 SSD
Seagate 3 TB HDD
Seasonic Platium 860w psu - which I already had
Corsair Hydro series 105i which I got on major discount (1/3 off)

To Runt.The cooler on idle is almost silent except for the pump running and the cpu is reading a frosty 26C.Haven't installed any games yet so I can't tell you how loud/hot it will get when the fans get wound up.

Everything went together easily even for a inexperienced person like me except for the videocard which took a bit of time to slot in for some reason.

I'll probably put a picture up of the whole thing when I feel like it have some more time.

[IdolEyes787]

The cpu is running at 16C now (true story and OCed to 4.2) but only because it's freezing in my house. :)

[Rart]

Looks good.

The wait for the graphics card recommendation was largely because you were considering the higher end 780, which as you mentioned is a bigger investment and new cards were just around the corner that could potentially be a lot better. In general though new generations start at the high end and trickle their way down so if you're getting a 760 there's really wasn't a point in waiting.

Also I'm not saying that pre assembled liquid coolers are bad per se, just that high end air coolers are better. If your water cooler works for you and you like it, go for it. Also I know you are super ghey and like flashy and pretty things and what not and a water cooler certainly gives your case a cleaner look so you install more brightly colored lights to look at and adore

PS: You should also definitely consider looking at this software (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/samsung-ssd-840-evo-review-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/5) if you haven't already. Will make your SSD a lot faster by caching certain data to RAM.


The cpu is running at 16C now (true story and OCed to 4.2) but only because it's freezing in my house. :)

That sounds... a little iffy. I don't think you could realistically get that temperature unless you're cooling your CPU with liquid nitrogen or something. I think one of your sensors/whatever monitoring software you're using is a little bit off. In general CPU temp monitors get inaccurate at lower temps but it's still a good sign cause it means its at that low threshold area.

[IdolEyes787]

Already installed along with a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand and probably won't use.:)

My cpu is now running at 16C somewhat OCed because it's freezing in my house.:mellow:

Also the ROG board is like aces,whatever that means.

The best part though is it's red.

Like really red.

Cherry maybe but flashier.

[Artemis]

I've been planning a partial upgrade myself, keeping my current board but ditching the case and either getting a Fractal or a CoolerMaster Silencio and the new i4930 cpu and a new GPU to replace the GTX 560 Ti but I also really like the looks of this kit : http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-RayStorm-D5-EX240-WaterCooling-Kit_31714.html to keep everything cool, with the added plus of expandability at a later date.

[Rart]

Earlier in the thread I recommended AMD GPUs as they (had) better value per dollar if you were willing to sacrifice in the noise/cooling department.

That is no longer the case. The cryptocurrency mining craze has caused the price of the 280X and above AMD cards nearly double, currently around a 90 percent increase at the moment over the MSRP.

The lower end 270X was less affected, but still has a 50% price hike over the MSRP.

And here I thought mining wasn't profitable anymore...