Bitcoin Crash: Beginning Of The End?

[pythoncancer]

“It’s the 90′s ‘dot.com’ bubble all over again”.

The bitcoin crashed for the third time in recent months, leaving some to wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the once promising currency.

The latest flap comes as the result of an oversight by Mt. Gox, the largest exchange for allowing bitcoins to be traded for traditional currency. Mt. Gox froze the accounts of all its customers and ceased operations when the company discovered an unfortunate glitch.

According to a statement by Mt. Gox, “A bug in the bitcoin software makes it possible for someone to use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of bitcoins to a bitcoin wallet did not occur when in fact it did occur.”

In other words, the flaw would allow someone to be sent additional bitcoin currency and open the system up to all sorts of fraudulent behavior…if the mistake had not been already exploited.

According to CNBC, the news caused the currency to drop 20% in value.

[megabyteme]

I'm waiting for it to get to 'zero' so I can buy in cheap. :sneaky:

[IdolEyes787]

“It’s the 90′s ‘dot.com’ bubble all over again”.

The bitcoin crashed for the third time in recent months, leaving some to wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the once promising currency.

The latest flap comes as the result of an oversight by Mt. Gox, the largest exchange for allowing bitcoins to be traded for traditional currency. Mt. Gox froze the accounts of all its customers and ceased operations when the company discovered an unfortunate glitch.

According to a statement by Mt. Gox, “A bug in the bitcoin software makes it possible for someone to use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of bitcoins to a bitcoin wallet did not occur when in fact it did occur.”

In other words, the flaw would allow someone to be sent additional bitcoin currency and open the system up to all sorts of fraudulent behavior…if the mistake had not been already exploited.

According to CNBC, the news caused the currency to drop 20% in value.

http://www.webpronews.com/bitcoin-crash-beginning-of-the-end-2014-02

Now corrected to give proper credit to the person you stole that from and also better reflect the level of your integrity/intelligence.

Anyway stupid stuff created simply to make money is at the heart of all great economies,so good on you, evildoers.:)

[piercerseth]

A bit more perspective (via /r/bitcoin): http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/11/the-embarrassing-fact-mtgox-left-out-of-their-press-release/

I wouldn't call a 20% dip a 'crash' when BTC is already volatile as all get out. I'd call it 'Tuesday'j


EDIT: Slashdot's got a more concise summation: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/14/02/11/0015242/surrogate-database-key-not-bitcoin-protocol-flaw-to-blame-for-mt-gox-problems

[TheFoX]

Can't wait for ByteCoin.

[Skiz]

Bill Gates did a second Reddit AMA yesterday where he stated there was a good future in "digital currency". He didn't specifically mention Bitcoin or any of the others by name, but that's a pretty good endorsement.

[megabyteme]

Bill Gates did a second Reddit AMA yesterday where he stated there was a good future in "digital currency". He didn't specifically mention Bitcoin or any of the others by name, but that's a pretty good endorsement.

It is a fascinating question, really: Who is trustworthy enough to create the currency of the future, possibly world, economy? M$? Google? The US? China? Some hermit writing code from inside an abandoned building?...

[megabyteme]

Can't wait for ByteCoin.

:happy:

[IdolEyes787]

Bill Gates did a second Reddit AMA yesterday where he stated there was a good future in "digital currency". He didn't specifically mention Bitcoin or any of the others by name, but that's a pretty good endorsement.
Yeah the guy how basically invented the computer as we know it,doesn't have any invested interest in promoting digital stuff.

Maybe if he owned a paper mill or foundry or something I could put more trust in his words.

[Skiz]

I don't think he gives a flip about making more money. He has clearly moved on to other ventures, most of which make him zero money. I think he has a lot of other interests and is keyed in on loads of different things, but again, he didn't promote any of them.

For context. (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1xj56q/hello_reddit_im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill/cfbuaxn?context=3)

[Rart]

Bill Gates did a second Reddit AMA yesterday where he stated there was a good future in "digital currency". He didn't specifically mention Bitcoin or any of the others by name, but that's a pretty good endorsement.

It is a fascinating question, really: Who is trustworthy enough to create the currency of the future, possibly world, economy? M$? Google? The US? China? Some hermit writing code from inside an abandoned building?...

The entire point of cryptocurrencies is that they are decentralized currencies in which a single party can't control and/or manipulate the currency. It's not really about trust, I think you're thinking of something completely different.

[mjmacky]

It is a fascinating question, really: Who is trustworthy enough to create the currency of the future, possibly world, economy? M$? Google? The US? China? Some hermit writing code from inside an abandoned building?...

The entire point of cryptocurrencies is that they are decentralized currencies in which a single party can't control and/or manipulate the currency. It's not really about trust, I think you're thinking of something completely different.

That may be the point of cryptocurrency, but the topic has shifted to a future containing a mainstream digital currency. In other words, you weren't really replying to MBM.

[Rart]

The reddit AMA that Skiz is referring to and MBM replied to talks of cryptocurrencies.

Who's talking about creating a new digital currency staffed by a central party? This is news to me.

[IdolEyes787]

The entire point of cryptocurrencies is that they are decentralized currencies in which a single party can't control and/or manipulate the currency.

Knowing absolutely nothing, to which I remain internally grateful, about bitcoin I'm assuming it's commodity.Therefore it can be controlled by a small group or single party unless the stock market and the entirety of human history has taught me nothing.
Which it hasn't but for the sake of argument let's pretend it has.

Also,without regulation it's subject to being even more abused than legally traded commodities and we already know how abused they are.

[TheFoX]

What about the FSD? (FileSharingDollar)

[megabyteme]

The reddit AMA that Skiz is referring to and MBM replied to talks of cryptocurrencies.

Who's talking about creating a new digital currency staffed by a central party? This is news to me.

Somebody/some agency will create an future digital currency that will be an online standard. I rarely venture into the realm of CIA conspiracy, but the agency is tasked with keeping the status quo. Casting doubt on up-and-comers which rock the boat of the US being the primary (at least one of the "big boys") is in their job description. Currently, the biggest bitcoin market has seen a scandal and another individual has been arrested for money laundering in connection with drug trafficking.

Not only will this new currency face challenges of speculation and doubt from the masses, but also those who piss off already existing money printers face HUGE personal risks (such as sudden loss of breath, or long-term imprisonment).

[Rart]

The entire point of cryptocurrencies is that they are decentralized currencies in which a single party can't control and/or manipulate the currency.

Knowing absolutely nothing, to which I remain internally grateful, about bitcoin I'm assuming it's commodity.Therefore it can be controlled by a small group or single party unless the stock market and the entirety of human history has taught me nothing.
Which it hasn't but for the sake of argument let's pretend it has.

Also,without regulation it's subject to being even more abused than legally traded commodities and we already know how abused they are.

It's a currency, not a commodity.

I'm sure if someone had enough money and time, they someone could perhaps buy enough bitcoins to have an influence on it. Then again there are 10 billion dollars worth of bitcoins out there, so you'd need a lot of money. You'd also need people willing to give you bitcoins. If someone was trying to sweep them all up people would begin to notice very quickly since all transaction are publically recorded.

And what I mean remaining decentralized is that it can't be controlled to nearly the extent of say, the US government has on the USD. Sure some organizations might be able to affect prices or whatnot with certain actions (ie MtGox going offline recently) but not nearly to the extent with which America can control the US dollar. They can print money, issue bonds, pump money into the economy, take it back out, etc. etc. No one has that sort of power over Bitcoin.

And yes without regulation it does have the potential to be abused. But that's what people like about it. No one can really control what they do with it. It has it's benefits and drawbacks for sure.

[Vestibule]

A new currency is coming... one that will eventually be the world standard and one that no man may be able to buy or sell.... err... wait a minute... didn't mean to go there..
Anyways I think Bitcoin won't last simply because the powers that be want to bring in something of their own creation... and one that they can control. The Quark currency will, I believe be the one to reckon with... here is how it matches against Bitcoin.

http://www.quarkcoins.com/bitcoin-vs-quarkcoin.html

Maybe not in our lifetime... but then again... you just need one staged event on par with ... lets say... 911... to usher in a whole new paradigm... why then, of course... for the sake of freedom everywhere... enslave us with your currency!

[Rart]

Currently, the biggest bitcoin market has seen a scandal and another individual has been arrested for money laundering in connection with drug trafficking.

I mean I kind of view the drug trafficking thing as inevitable. When theres a way to make money easily, there will people that want to make money easily. Drug trafficking happens with USD too, but I don't people decrying that it should be discontinued. Also if you're referring the recent Mtgox issue as the "scandal", I wouldn't really consider it a scandal. Just a popular bitcoin exchange site went down temporarily, and a lot of people panicked.

Personally I don't really like the idea of using Bitcoin right now as it is rather volatile and the value can rise and fall greatly on any given day. It's kind of like investing. It has it's merits though and when/if it becomes more stable I can definitely see it becoming much more widely accepted thing.

[mjmacky]

The reddit AMA that Skiz is referring to and MBM replied to talks of cryptocurrencies.

Who's talking about creating a new digital currency staffed by a central party? This is news to me.

If you aren't sure about who was talking about it, maybe you should have quoted skiz instead of MBM.

Then again, this recommendation might be for naught since you only seem to take in the words of external sites. I'll write an article on a news site about how posts in forums create their own context. Would you read an article from The Onion?

[IdolEyes787]

It's a currency, not a commodity.



Look up the definition of commodity and then look up how exchange rates are determined and then get back to me.

[Rart]

If you aren't sure about who was talking about it, maybe you should have quoted skiz instead of MBM.

Then again, this recommendation might be for naught since you only seem to take in the words of external sites. I'll write an article on a news site about how posts in forums create their own context. Would you read an article from The Onion?

He quoted Skiz which made me assume that he was building upon the topic Skiz brought up, so I didn't think he was "creating his own context". I don't see anything wrong with that... :unsure: He later clarified what he meant and I realized he was talking about something else.

And I don't see what's wrong with supporting my arguments with outside sources... it's the entire foundation upon which any scientific discovery of the last two centuries, (good) journalism, and heck even Wikipedia is based upon. Seems like a pretty standard practice to me.

[Rart]

Look up the definition of commodity and then look up how exchange rates are determined and then get back to me.

Doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is still a currency... and there's a pretty important difference between a currency and a commodity.

Were you trying to make the point that the demand for commodities within certain countries affect exchange rates? I'm not exactly an economics guru so maybe you could elaborate more, but I'm not sure how relevant that'd be to Bitcoin since it a global currency that isn't really localized to a certain area.

[IdolEyes787]

Commodity - Merriam-Webster Online

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity‎


noun \kə-ˈmä-də-tē\. : something that is bought and sold. : something or someone that is useful or valued.





.investopedia.com

How often do exchange rates fluctuate?






Exchange rates float freely against one another, which means they are in constant fluctuation. Currency valuations are determined by the flows of currency in and out of a country. A high demand for a particular currency usually means that the value of that currency will increase. Demand for a currency is created by tourism, international trade, mergers and acquisitions, speculation, and the perception of safety in terms of geo-political risk. If, for example, a company in Japan sells products to a company in the United States and the U.S.-based company would have to convert dollars into Japanese yen to pay for the goods, the flow of dollars into yen would indicate a demand for Japanese yen. If the total of currency flow led to a net demand for the Japanese yen, then the yen would increase in value.

Currencies are traded around the clock - 24 hours per day. Even though morning in Tokyo occurs during U.S. nighttime, trade and banking continue around the world. Therefore, as banks around the world buy and sell currencies, the value of currencies remain in fluctuation. Interest rate adjustments in different countries have the biggest effect on the value of currencies because investors typically look for safe investments with the highest yields. If an investor can earn 8.5% interest on deposits in England, but can pay 1% interest for the use of money in Japan, then the investor would pay to borrow the Japanese yen in order to buy the British pound. Such trades take place all the time and in very large numbers.




Currency,like housing prices is not so much reflective of actual value but rather the fact that people with a lot of money and/or power think they can gain even more money and/or power by buying it and artificially jacking the prices up.
When they think that their invest has reached a premium then they sell it and the value likely drops and the whole stupid cycle starts again.

Stop being contrary just to be contrary as that is my job here.

[Rart]

Right. But all these rules were theorized and developed with conventional currencies in mind. While certain rules could potentially be analogous to a certain extent with cryptocurrency, I am extremely doubtful. The fact that the currency is decentralized and not associated with any central banks/organizations, that all transactions are public and so anything like this would be sniffed out pretty quickly, and the fact that a simple transaction could take days or weeks (one of the big weaknesses of Bitcoin) makes me hesitant that any of these rules actually apply here.

[IdolEyes787]

Right. But all these rules were theorized and developed with conventional currencies in mind. While certain rules could potentially be analogous to a certain extent with cryptocurrency, I am extremely doubtful. The fact that the currency is decentralized and not associated with any central banks/organizations, that all transactions are public and so anything like this would be sniffed out pretty quickly, and the fact that a simple transaction could take days or weeks (one of the big weaknesses of Bitcoin) makes me hesitant that any of these rules actually apply here.

As I said I know nothing about bitcoins but I do know enough about humanity that I'm certain that if there is any way to corrupt or exploit them then someone will.

Or in other words,remember when the internet was this Utopian dream where all knowledge was going to be freely available?
No,neither does Mark Zuckerberg.

[TheFoX]

Currency used to be tied to the value of precious metal, namely gold. In more recent times, currency is tied to the credit rating of the host nation along with its GDP etc.

BitCoin isn't tied to any one nation or GDP, therefore it becomes an enigma.

Besides, bitcoin mining is serious work. Not for your average PS4 or XBOXOne.

[mjmacky]

Currencies undergo speculation, investment, and all of that other financial nonsense.

Thus it is a commodity by both definition and context.

[mjmacky]

And I don't see what's wrong with supporting my arguments with outside sources...

The subtext blaring context was that you ignore input from anyone here.

[Rart]

As I said I know nothing about bitcoins but I do know enough about humanity that I'm certain that if there is any way to corrupt or exploit them then someone will.

Or in other words,remember when the internet was this Utopian dream where all knowledge was going to be freely available?
No,neither does Mark Zuckerberg.

Fair enough. I'm sure there are and will be plenty of ways to exploit bitcoins (and you're right, where there's a will there's a way). However I think the scary thing and main reason I am skeptical of Bitcoin is from the potential manipulation from an underlying technical perspective, not the fear mongering from every small crash that is bound to occur in a currency so young that the mainstream media loves to perpetuate.

Is bitcoin really secure from a technical standpoint? Are the cryptography methods really secure so that they can't be "gamed", and are we completely sure someone won't find some way to circumvent the system and spend coins others have mined since all transactions are recorded publicly? That's what really concerns me about Bitcoin, and is something I really don't have the technical know how to answer.

Also, since you mention the idea of free knowledge: I paid 100$ for an electronic textbook that can't be viewed offline, can only print one page at a time, has a massive watermark over the entire page if you do print it, has some bizarre requirement that I can't view it without disabling pop ups on my browser, and to add insult to injury takes 20-30 seconds to load a single page that doesn't cache at all so it loads faster on subsequent loads. Want a hard copy? Be prepared to pay twice as much for a textbook that releases a new "edition" every year that is all intents and purposes identical to the last one but with identical passages moved around enough that students are forced to buy the newest edition rather then buy them used. Hows that for "free" knowledge? :unsure:

[Rart]

BitCoin isn't tied to any one nation or GDP, therefore it becomes an enigma.

Yep. And that's exactly why so many are afraid of it. It doesn't exactly follow the "rules" of conventional currency, and the established are scared. It's what allows so many media sites to create such click bait fear mongering articles out of every little up and down in the market that blow it completely out of proportion.

[Rart]

Currencies undergo speculation, investment, and all of that other financial nonsense.

Thus it is a commodity by both definition and context.

:unsure:

"A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation, as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money. "

"In economics, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs."

Currency is something that can be used as a medium of exchange for commodities. They are completely distinct, albeit related, concepts.


The subtext blaring context was that you ignore input from anyone here.

Do you have a stick up your ass or something? :mellow: How many times do you want to make me explain this to you before you reach some sort of comprehension?

I thought MBM was building upon Skiz's point because he quoted him. It turned out he was introducing something else. I realized this upon his subsequent post, where he quoted me and clarified/expanded upon his point. I now understand what he was saying.

How the hell is this me not listening to his "input" or something? Please do tell, I genuinely want to know.

[mjmacky]

:unsure:

"A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation, as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money. "

"In economics, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs."

Currency is something that can be used as a medium of exchange for commodities. They are completely distinct, albeit related, concepts.


The subtext blaring context was that you ignore input from anyone here.

Do you have a stick up your ass or something? :mellow: How many times do you want to make me explain this to you before you reach some sort of comprehension?

I thought MBM was building upon Skiz's point because he quoted him. It turned out he was introducing something else. I realized this upon his subsequent post, where he quoted me and clarified/expanded upon his point. I now understand what he was saying.

How the hell is this me not listening to his "input" or something? Please do tell, I genuinely want to know.

I think it's just a matter of you always being two steps behind, hence your frustration.

About your fixation on trying to make currency and commodity mutually exclusive. Do currencies have assessed values? Yes. Can you buy and sell money in the marketplace? Yes. It may sound like a paradox, but the purposeful creation of currency is a commodity in its very essence. It replaced trading things with other things.

[Rart]

I think it's just a matter of you always being two steps behind, hence your frustration.


I'm not entirely sure scratch that I have absolutely no idea what you mean. How am I always two steps behind? MBM made a post that I misinterpreted, he clarified it literally a couple of posts later, and now I understand it. That was it. I was never "always" behind, I was never frustrated with him.

It seems however that you are convinced I've done MBM a great injustice and anything I say won't convince you otherwise so I won't pursue it further.


About your fixation on trying to make currency and commodity mutually exclusive. Do currencies have assessed values? Yes. Can you buy and sell money in the marketplace? Yes. It may sound like a paradox, but the purposeful creation of currency is a commodity in its very essence. It replaced trading things with other things.

I'm not "fixated" on it. Someone else (Idol?) brought it up and I replied. In general that's how discussions work. :mellow:

Also I absolutely never implied that currency and commodities are mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite, they're very, very, closely related. In fact, the entire existence of currency is based on the fact that there are commodities to trade, otherwise there'd be no point in having a currency.

However, you seem to be using some pseudo philosophical theory as reasoning that currency and commodity are one in the same. You can debate as much as you want how philosophically similar they are, but the fact of the matter is that no sane economist would use commodity and currency interchangeably. They are two distinct words with two distinct roles in an economy. Related? Absolutely. But still different.

[mjmacky]

It seems however that you are convinced I've done MBM a great injustice and anything I say won't convince you otherwise so I won't pursue it.

Injustice? That's crazy talk. I've threatened to molest his children. You might be taking that a bit too seriously.

Commodity and currency are not interchangeable, and that was not the premise. How are you with analogies? Every dildo is a sex toy, but not every sex toy is a dildo. A dildo can also be a weapon, door stop, etc.

Did you figure out which is the dildo and which is the sex toy in that analogy? It's you, you're the dildo.

Here's a smiley face to let you know the last statement was in jest

:)

Nobody gets me :emo:

[Rart]

You seemed pretty serious when you said I blaringly ignore input from anyone else :idunno:


Every dildo is a sex toy, but not every sex toy is a dildo. A dildo can also be a weapon, door stop, etc.

I get what you're saying but I just don't think that its true. Commodities don't encompass currencies. Currencies are a medium of exchange, something issued by a certain party/group of people and doesn't really have an intrinsic value, just what people choose to represent it as for the purposes of trade (ie a USD's intrinsic value is really just how much it cost to produce the piece of paper, but it reality it's worth far more because people give it value to facilitate trade).

A commodity is an item produced in order to satisfy wants and needs, and has an intrinsic value to it. Now you might argue that people want or need money, but that's not exactly true. People want money so that they can buy what they want/need, they don't want money for the sake of having the physical currency itself.

It might seem like a small difference but I think it's an important distinction.

[Rart]

Also fun fact: AMD cards are now seeing price hikes in the range of 80-90% because of crytocurrencies. Whether that's a result of unreasonable hype that will soon crash or demonstrates the strength of the currency is up to you to decide...

[mjmacky]

Now you might argue that people want or need money, but that's not exactly true. People want money so that they can buy what they want/need, they don't want money for the sake of having the physical currency itself.


Trying to make that distinction undoes your point since there are plenty of other commodities (besides money) that aren't needed by most people, but rather they are produced to exchange for goods that they do need.

You can keep trying to unlabel currencies as commodities, but each argument you present will either be countered by me or conflicted within your own statements.

The part about your unwillingness to accept input by others here was just an observation I've made based on your interactions with other members, and I only mentioned it to announce that I'm aware of the futility of trying to set you straight. I don't mind it being a futile effort, for practicing the debate form isn't wasteful regardless of outcome.

However, I should honor my observations and point you to an outside resource that discusses commodities with an inclusive discussion on currency. You're free to find something on your own as well.

http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/commodities-precious-metals/commodity-1035

[mjmacky]

P.S. I tried googling "money is not a commodity" to provide you some kind of edge since this is a little too one sided, and while going through the results that did not state currency=commodity, I only found a bit of incoherent fringe discussion. Try finding something that doesn't come from a Tea Party nut or conspiracy theorist if you have the time, and refer it if you think a sound assessment has been made.

[Rart]

Trying to make that distinction undoes your point since there are plenty of other commodities (besides money) that aren't needed by most people, but rather they are produced to exchange for goods that they do need.



A commodity by definition is something that people want or need. If it isn't it isn't a commodity. There is the edge case of "commodity money", where people trade commodities they don't necessarily need (eg gold, silver, salt, cigarettes), but that's still something that has intrinsic value to someone else who may want to use it. That's why currency used to be "backed by gold". People worried their currency were useless slips of paper (no intrinsic value), so they wanted the security of having it backed by a commodity. Commodity = intrinsic value, currency = no intrinsic value.

And I'll mention it again: I'm sure you can create a deep, abstract, philosophical argument for why currency and commodities are one and the same, and I wont disagree that they are very similar. But for practical purposes of discussing economic theory and their applications to the real world, currency and commodities are used as terminology to discuss two distinct things. It would get very confusing if you read an economic paper and decided that you could swap currency for commodity wherever it was mentioned.


for practicing the debate form isn't wasteful regardless of outcome

I agree. A lot of people seem to misinterpret my verbose arguments as irritation or anger, but I'm just doing what I view a forum's purpose is, or at least why I joined this forum discussing shit.



The part about your unwillingness to accept input by others here was just an observation I've made based on your interactions with other members, and I only mentioned it to announce that I'm aware of the futility of trying to set you straight. I don't mind it being a futile effort, for practicing the debate form isn't wasteful regardless of outcome.

So I'm assuming you're talking about the hardware thread? It seems a little ironic that you specifically would mention it "for the futility of setting me straight" since outside of Artemis and the occasional post from Skiz you guys provided squat for input into that discussion. Feel free to post what you want, but it seems funny you'd bring it up when half your posts were dick pics.

But no, what Artemis said wasn't enough to make me put down everything and take what he says as gospel as you seemingly want me to for the sake of "accepting input from other members". I responded to all his points, and yes I did agree with some of them (water coolers certainly provide an advantage in terms of usable space), and in my mind I was certainly taking in his input. Sorry if our definitions of "taking in input from other members" are different, I don't believe it encompasses blindly agreeing with people without inciting discussion and discourse.

If you present an argument with logical claims and backed up by solid evidence, I'd be happy to admit in a second that I'm wrong and change my opinion. Same goes for the hardware thread. I joined this forum to learn, not to impose. I will happily admit I'm wrong if the evidence proves otherwise, as that would mean I learned something new that day. So far though, I don't believe you've done that.

[IdolEyes787]

Take my word for it then.Also take my word for the fact that brilliant people are frequently wrong and only fools have to always believe they are right.
Also take my word for the fact that there are things better to simply walk away from,even if you know you can win.

And now for a little light entertainment.:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2WJd5bXFg

[IdolEyes787]

Granted it's no Shawshank Redemption.

[mjmacky]

If you present an argument with logical claims and backed up by solid evidence, I'd be happy to admit in a second that I'm wrong and change my opinion. Same goes for the hardware thread. I joined this forum to learn, not to impose. I will happily admit I'm wrong if the evidence proves otherwise, as that would mean I learned something new that day. So far though, I don't believe you've done that.

Of course I provided something logical, what else would be expected from yours truly? Also, I seem to have been the only one who provided a resource here, one you seemingly ignored, and you still have yet to understand the nuances of a commodity.

So

:/

There's that.

Earlier in the post you were starting to tickle the tangent of the difference between commodity money and fiat money, and I believe part of the confusion you have is related to the use and implementation as it relates to the former term.

I'll give you a hint, your definition of commodity is incomplete. You must have been sitting there racking your brain over what you're missing, but that's a huge hint I just provided you. Chase that dragon. You're welcome.

I have provided you an ample amount of information, now you should go back and fill in the links. Nothing is more effectively learned than something realized by the student (rather than being dictated).

[mjmacky]

but it seems funny you'd bring it up when half your posts were dick pics.

You have to, at times, give the people what they want. Sometimes, that's more dick pics. Who am I to question their tastes? I can judge them, whether loudly or silently, but I can't just ignore their will. If someone prefers to keep their eyes fixed on some cock, let 'em at it. I'm sure you'd agree with the freedom of choice I've permitted you.

[Rart]

I typed up a long response but then realized this conversation is going absolutely nowhere. I give up.

[mjmacky]

I typed up a long response but then realized this conversation is going absolutely nowhere. I give up.

If it went too long, I would have probably made a mental note to read it later when I'm on a computer, then forgotten completely about it, and never end up reading it.

That's how these things work.

Mail my world championship belt to whoever uses Sargeant in his name. He's a huge wrasslin' fan who has been forever waiting to touch a title belt.

[Artemis]

I just realised a couple of things Rart. The first is that you are perhaps the first completely humourless person I have ever met, while the second is more related to maturity and begs the question, how old are you?

[mjmacky]

I just realised a couple of things Rart. The first is that you are perhaps the first completely humourless person I have ever met, while the second is more related to maturity and begs the question, how old are you?

As far as this board goes, there's a few completely devoid of levity. How is that possible? Either they are still too young or haven't gotten around to offing themselves (to rid their joyless existence).

[Artemis]

I just realised a couple of things Rart. The first is that you are perhaps the first completely humourless person I have ever met, while the second is more related to maturity and begs the question, how old are you?

As far as this board goes, there's a few completely devoid of levity. How is that possible? Either they are still too young or haven't gotten around to offing themselves (to rid their joyless existence).

Well I know that you will carry on on your merry mission, seeking them out and bringing them to the point of suicide or an embolism, which ever comes first. :yup:

[Rart]

So because I like to challenge people on what they say and actually bring something to the table to discuss I'm an humorless immature twat. Pardon me for wanting to use the forum as a forum.

[Rart]

If it's cause of my last post I'll clarify: I felt like the conversation was becoming very circular. I made my points, mjmacky responded, I replied back, mjmacky replies with an abstract question. Repeat. We weren't really getting anywhere, so I decided to take Idol's advice and drop it. If I came off strong there I apologize as it was not my intent, it was a long day and I was tired.

Also in case mj decides to use my post two posts ago as proof that I ignore "input" from other members, I didn't respond to your source because you just gave me a link generally without actually specifying what part you wanted to use to support your argument. I did respond to every other point in your post though.

[IdolEyes787]

... so I decided to take Idol's advice ...

I forgot what you are referring to since generally I like to keep my brain empty to increase the chances of brilliant ideas formulating but whatever it was,bad idea,bro.

[mjmacky]

As far as this board goes, there's a few completely devoid of levity. How is that possible? Either they are still too young or haven't gotten around to offing themselves (to rid their joyless existence).

Well I know that you will carry on on your merry mission, seeking them out and bringing them to the point of suicide or an embolism, which ever comes first. :yup:

I would hope that I'm an equal opportunity giver of embolisms.

[mjmacky]

you just gave me a link generally without actually specifying what part you wanted to use to support your argument.

Some of it... or all of it, it didn't really matter since you'll happen upon the revelation on your own. It's not like it was lengthy or anything, you could have even just read the first two sentences.

I only linked it because I thought it did a good job breaking it down. One would figure that the gesture alone was sufficiently thoughtful, but now I'm expected to deconstruct it too? Let me guess, you'll want my lunch money next? Get in line with the other creditors.

[Rart]

... so I decided to take Idol's advice ...

I forgot what you are referring to since generally I like to keep my brain empty to increase the chances of brilliant ideas formulating but whatever it was,bad idea,bro.

Well you tend to spout bullshit so much that I figured you had to be right eventually.

[Rart]

you just gave me a link generally without actually specifying what part you wanted to use to support your argument.

Some of it... or all of it, it didn't really matter since you'll happen upon the revelation on your own. It's not like it was lengthy or anything, you could have even just read the first two sentences.

I only linked it because I thought it did a good job breaking it down. One would figure that the gesture alone was sufficiently thoughtful, but now I'm expected to deconstruct it too? Let me guess, you'll want my lunch money next? Get in line with the other creditors.

I did read it.

I only mentioned that you didn't specify a context because you seem perturbed that I didn't respond and you thought I ignored it. You didn't raise a specific point when you linked that article, so I didn't have anything to respond to.

[Rart]

Since you mentioned the first few lines, I'm assuming you're talking about commodity currencies? They're only called as such because of how closely their value is tied to the commodities of such country, not because they actually are a commodity. The countries in which their currency is labeled a commodity currency are due to their income relying heavily on the export of raw materials (commodities). Read the headlines/beginnings of these (http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3197770/Commodities-currency-demand-slows-as-cycle-turns.html) three (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2003/03/cash.htm) articles (http://www.cepii.fr/PDF_PUB/wp/2008/wp2008-32.pdf) and notice how they are always clearly differentiating between the two and are clearly mentioning the effects one has on he other as if they are separate things.

Now if you has actually mentioned earlier what you were talking about (and I still don't know if this is what you're referring to) rather than talking in abstractions, hypotheticals, and analogies we could have had a much more productive discussion. :mellow:

[IdolEyes787]

I forgot what you are referring to since generally I like to keep my brain empty to increase the chances of brilliant ideas formulating but whatever it was,bad idea,bro.

Well you tend to spout bullshit so much that I figured you had to be right eventually.

That's why I spend at least a portion of every day at the typewriter.

[TheFoX]

So because I like to challenge people on what they say and actually bring something to the table to discuss I'm an humorless immature twat. Pardon me for wanting to use the forum as a forum.

Could you not at least wait until Chalice calls you that? After all, his whole existence is based around his perception of others.

[IdolEyes787]

Then his Mum lied because she told it was all about drugs and comic books and making her life miserable.

[mjmacky]

Since you mentioned the first few lines, I'm assuming you're talking about commodity currencies?

No, I had only previously invoked "commodity money" as the source of your confusion, i.e., why you think one cannot be classified into another.

Neither of those links brought me to anything useful since I'm trying to open them in a mobile browser. Cookie page, main page, and internal Tapatalk link?

I'll go ahead and spell it out slowly for you. Like, when I get on a real computer. Hold your breath.

[jondgls]

Hope its not the end. Perhaps it just an opportunity buy more BTC cheap :)

[gilley6948]

Hope its not the end. Perhaps it just an opportunity buy more BTC cheap :)

Lets hope so!

[piercerseth]

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/02/mt-gox-once-the-worlds-largest-bitcoin-exchange-shuts-down/?comments=1

Next few days ought to be interesting. Color me surprised when the exchange doesn't guarantee the deposits.:rolleyes:
Can't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude reading some of these 'informed' nerds having conniptions.


EDIT: ^Didn't mean posters in this thread. Was referring to the charlatans and pretend econ majors in some subreddits and elsewhere.

[pythoncancer]

Now what you got you need to spend it too , Provided you are casual user and not hoarder or broker .

http://bit.ly/OB6Jzo

[megabyteme]

Now what you got you need to spend it too , Provided you are casual user and not hoarder or broker .

http://bit.ly/OB6Jzo

LOL. Here is the page that comes up from your link:


Uh-oh!
It looks like something broke. We’ve been notified and will have the problem fixed as soon as possible.

Thank you for your patience, please try again later.

I'd say "something broke".


This whole collapse strikes me as more of a CIA operation than individuals getting greedy. 1.2.3... More like a 3rd world government toppling based on information leaks and people missing. Hmmmm.

And, no, conspiracy theory is not my typical realm. Just plays out more like a pre-written script with those who do not like to be fucked with (those who control/print "real" money) staying in power, and maybe even looking to be a "more reliable investment" at the end.

[megabyteme]

EDIT- FFS, still "worth" $550. If I am correct, more front page stories discrediting the stability will occur. Soon.

[Alien5]

this is not really a great piece of news, they want you to think its coming to an end, when in reality it's only beginning.


Their value, when expressed in terms of another currency such as US Dollars, is simply what people perceive them to be worth.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bitcoin-boom-bubble-and-bust-cm327206

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bitcoin-boom-bubble-and-bust-cm327206#ixzz2uYOSAcod

Investors need a way to create some kind of controversy to increase the value:


Bitcoins may have lost half their value since last year's peak, but they're still selling for 56 times the price they were at the beginning of 2013.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-bitcoin-mt-gox-20140227,0,6907789.story#ixzz2uYGrTqMK

google bit coin historical prices for instance:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

In financial accounting, an asset is an economic resource. Anything tangible or intangible that is capable of being owned or controlled to produce value and that is held to have positive economic value is considered an asset. Simply stated, assets represent value of ownership that can be converted into cash (although cash itself is also considered an asset).

This story makes much more exciting History, if they had let him live or survive maybe he could have written a book about his life or done some public speaking to make a few extra bit coins.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/markets/item/4630-gadhafi-s-gold-money-plan-would-have-devastated-dollar

[pythoncancer]

Mt. Gox announcing that it lost $473 million worth of the virtual currency, many people who saw their money disappear have called for CEO Mark Karpeles to be imprisoned. Well, funny thing: it wouldn't necessarily be the first time Karpeles has been arrested for fraud.

http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

[vaiden]

Anyone tried the Mt. Gox hotline? I heard they don't even speak English there.

[megabyteme]

Anyone tried the Mt. Gox hotline? I heard they don't even speak English there.

No wonder they couldn't be trusted with money. :no:

[piercerseth]

Anyone tried the Mt. Gox hotline? I heard they don't even speak English there.
I picture a hotline playing pre recorded zen koans to calm all these irate nerds.

[TheFoX]

Its amazing how these people can make money simply disappear. More likely it is in someone's bank account somewhere.

[joeyjames]

Its amazing how these people can make money simply disappear. More likely it is in someone's bank account somewhere.

if they are smart they will have already cashed it out and sitting on a beach somewhere sipping on fruit cocktails

[hasso]

Quite a rollercoaster!

[pythoncancer]

141469

CEO Of Bitcoin Exchange Dies In Singapore March 06/2014

The spokesman said police found 28-year-old Autumn Radtke, an American, lying motionless near the apartment tower where she lived.

Police have so far classified the death as "unnatural," which can mean an accident, misadventure, or suicide.
First Meta allows users of virtual currencies such as bitcoin to trade and cash out the currencies. It is one of several such exchanges.

The future of bitcoin has been under scrutiny since the collapse of the Mt. Gox exchange in Tokyo last month.

[TheFoX]

The spokesman said police found 28-year-old Autumn Radtke, an American, lying motionless near the apartment tower where she lived.

Well, if she was still alive, she would hardly be motionless now, would she. It is amazing how they can spend $millions on fancy wording, when a much cheaper, 'found dead' would have sufficed.

There is a whole section within the Police specially trained to seek out words to describe what could be said in a word or two. These people do nothing other than tart up press releases continually, to give the impression that police officers have some semblance of intelligence, rather than the doughnut chomping apes that they actually are.

It is amazing that so much money is spent on a department that has nothing to do with crime prevention or detection.

[megabyteme]

My theory must be totally wrong. The CIA would NEVER kill anyone "unnaturally". :no:

[TheFoX]

They probably took offence at the fact that someone had a currency that they didn't have control over, so have instigated an offensive campaign designed to discredit and destroy the mechanism and those behind the mechanism for that currency, which will ultimately render the currency impotent.

No one in power likes a maverick agent, or agents, because it means they have lost control. The film and music industry has been systematically destroying file sharing in the name of entertainment, and now a maverick currency is being brought to its knees by the very people we should be afraid of, and I don't mean Chalice and IdolEyes787.

Fear those who hide in the shadows, and who's influence can change the direction of a nation.

[megabyteme]

They probably took offence at the fact that someone had a currency that they didn't have control over, so have instigated an offensive campaign designed to discredit and destroy the mechanism and those behind the mechanism for that currency, which will ultimately render the currency impotent.

No one in power likes a maverick agent, or agents, because it means they have lost control. The film and music industry has been systematically destroying file sharing in the name of entertainment, and now a maverick currency is being brought to its knees by the very people we should be afraid of, and I don't mean Chalice and IdolEyes787.

Fear those who hide in the shadows, and who's influence can change the direction of a nation.

I think the fact that she was a pretty woman (one who would make wide-spread press) didn't help her when cards were drawn. :no: Serves as a warning to ANYONE who would try something similar.

[mjmacky]

I think the fact that she was a pretty woman (one who would make wide-spread press) didn't help her when cards were drawn. :no: Serves as a warning to ANYONE who would try something similar.

I thought, for just a moment, Oleg decided to chime in with an unremarkable observation. Heed this mistake.

[piercerseth]

I think the fact that she was a pretty woman (one who would make wide-spread press) didn't help her when cards were drawn. :no: Serves as a warning to ANYONE who would try something similar.She fell on those bullets of her own accord. Honest injun.

Unfortunately this will be largely ignored. Instead of that half-assed Sakamoto piece in Newsweek, Leah Goodman could have been investigating this or the rash of bankers dropping off like it was 1929 all over.

[megabyteme]

I think the fact that she was a pretty woman (one who would make wide-spread press) didn't help her when cards were drawn. :no: Serves as a warning to ANYONE who would try something similar.

I thought, for just a moment, Oleg decided to chime in with an unremarkable observation. Heed this mistake.

He now has a better shot at her than he ever did... :whistling

[megabyteme]

[...]the rash of bankers dropping off like it was 1929 all over.

How's the Winklevii death clock looking, I wonder. :devil:

[IdolEyes787]

They probably took offence at the fact that someone had a currency that they didn't have control over, so have instigated an offensive campaign designed to discredit and destroy the mechanism and those behind the mechanism for that currency, which will ultimately render the currency impotent.

No one in power likes a maverick agent, or agents, because it means they have lost control. The film and music industry has been systematically destroying file sharing in the name of entertainment, and now a maverick currency is being brought to its knees by the very people we should be afraid of, and I don't mean Chalice and IdolEyes787.

Fear those who hide in the shadows, and who's influence can change the direction of a nation.

It's the Illuminati isn't it? Paranoia tells me that those are some bad motherfuckers.Possibly worse than the Jews if that is possible.

Also as it's a very same leap of faith to suggest that Ms Radtke was entirely motivated in this endeavor by greed and I'm already vocally supporting Scrooge McDuck, I'm afraid I really haven't got much sympathy left to spare for her.

[megabyteme]

[...]bankers dropping off like it was 1929 all over.

Just looked into this. Serious LOOOOOOOL upon hearing one of the suicides resulted in seven shots from a nail gun to the head and chest. :happy: :happy: :D

Justice served? I hope this is simply justice appetizer...

For anyone else who is smiling about these "suicides", you might enjoy Assault on Wall Street (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2368553/?ref_=nm_knf_t3). Relieves some of the pent up aggression...

[IdolEyes787]

[

Just looked into this. Serious LOOOOOOOL upon hearing one of the suicides resulted in seven shots from a nail gun to the head and chest. :happy: :happy: :D



In a suicide a nail gun would be a good weapon of convenience as isn't there some sort of Nazi waiting period for a handgun?

I doubt if there are many people that have a handy straight razor lying around and maybe his garage had a carbon dioxide detector.

Sure you could try to hang yourself or step in front of a car or jump off of something tall but there's always the chance that you will only end up brain damaged or paraplegic and then you've only added to your problems.
Nope pneumatically driven nail to temple would definitely be the way to go.:)

[mjmacky]

Nope pneumatically driven nail to temple would definitely be the way to go.:)

Unless you lose consciousness before putting the final nail in the coffin.

[megabyteme]

Nope pneumatically driven nail to temple would definitely be the way to go.:)

Skip to 2:55 in this video as the demonstrator is annoying as f&@k British:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SnBpgeW9qM

Imagine the amount of self-loathing (deservedly*) it would take to press the tip against your chest and skull and fire 7 times.

*Sadly, only about 1/100000 as much as anyone who got screwed out of their homes feels towards the grotesque bastards.

[Artemis]

[

Just looked into this. Serious LOOOOOOOL upon hearing one of the suicides resulted in seven shots from a nail gun to the head and chest. :happy: :happy: :D



In a suicide a nail gun would be a good weapon of convenience as isn't there some sort of Nazi waiting period for a handgun?

I doubt if there are many people that have a handy straight razor lying around and maybe his garage had a carbon dioxide detector.

Sure you could try to hang yourself or step in front of a car or jump off of something tall but there's always the chance that you will only end up brain damaged or paraplegic and then you've only added to your problems.
Nope pneumatically driven nail to temple would definitely be the way to go.:)

You could always go the whole hog and use a Ramset hammer (it uses a .22 cartridge to fasten the anchor) and at $21.98 from your local Home Depot it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a handgun too. :yup:

[IdolEyes787]

You could always go the whole hog and use a Ramset hammer (it uses a .22 cartridge to fasten the anchor) .....

I guess .22 caliber is acceptable for a hammer if you're a woman.:unsure:

[piercerseth]

I guess .22 caliber is acceptable for a hammer if you're a woman.:unsure:
Don't you know it. I wonder how the Hilti DX 460 fares when having to "Vince Foster" some asshole Wall Street mba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpvkwBBu6U

[Martsmac1982]

I always wanted to get "into" the whole crypto-currency market but I guess I missed the bus on that one , oh well hey hum.

[bboobb1234321]

still waiting to be told that the remaining coins i had in mtgox are never to be seen again..

[megabyteme]

still waiting to be told that the remaining coins i had in mtgox are never to be seen again..

In retrospect, a Pokemon merchant may not have been the safest place to keep your money. :no:

[g2thes]

A crash usually signals the real revolution is about to begin.

[amazingfunksta]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that... people have been saying that for years everytime there is a slump.