PDA

View Full Version : Bomb Iraq



davinda
02-11-2003, 03:12 PM
Apparently, the latest bumper sticker in the USA reads.....' Bomb Iraq then France.'....

Surely they don't mean it. How distasteful. :D

random nut
02-11-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by davinda@11 February 2003 - 16:12
Apparently, the latest bumper sticker in the USA reads.....' Bomb Iraq then France.'....

Surely they don't mean it. How distasteful.  :D
French people... Always doing the opposite of the US just out of spite "Hey, we don't care if you're a bigger country, we do exactly the opposite of what you do. Now what are you going to do about it?"

mrcall1969
02-11-2003, 04:59 PM
America - always thinking their way is correct and if you don't think like them you're wrong. Works both ways!!

Rat Faced
02-11-2003, 06:15 PM
I would like to point out to Americans, before they start slagging of Germany and France (Because that is OUR job :P )

Germany/France didnt refuse to protect Turkey in the event of war...they refused to send troops to the Iraqi border BEFORE any war, as they refuse to be associated with the attack on Iraq.

Further, even if they'd wanted to, they couldnt because:

a/ It is illegal for German Troops to deploy outside of Germany unless they are at war, or have been requested by the United Nations.....Hey the USA made it illegal, you cant now complain about it

b/ France isnt a full NATO member except in times of war.. (Its been like this since NATO was formed, with US acceptance, so again...why complain now?)

Another Cadaver
02-11-2003, 11:19 PM
There was a great editorial in the New York Times a few days ago about France always trying to be different even at the expense of world safety. I think it was called "Vote France off the Island" and advocated kicking France off the security council in favor of India--the world's largest democracy, largest Hindu nation, 2nd largest Muslim nation, and a nation that if it disagrees with America (as it often does) makes reasonable arguments.

Here is the link--but you might have to sign in first--it's free and you can read the NYTimes for free

NYTimes France Island (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/09/opinion/09FRIE.html)

Another good one:

NYTimes Francophobia (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/09/weekinreview/09NUNB.html)

Cyn v4.1
02-12-2003, 03:00 AM
you people sicken me, screw france and germany.

flame down there \/ you ungreatful bastards.

Dan
02-12-2003, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Cyn v4.1@12 February 2003 - 04:01
you people sicken me, screw france and germany.

flame down there \/ you ungreatful bastards.
yeah i hate france

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Cyn v4.1@12 February 2003 - 04:01
you people sicken me, screw france and germany.

flame down there \/ you ungreatful bastards.
That was the best triple post EVA!!!!

Doesn't France become Germany every 40 years on average anyway?

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 08:23 AM
We French people will soon invade the US because

1) They're stupid
2) They don't comply with international treaties & regulations
2) They are not a democracy (ie can elect a president who doesn't get the majority of votes)
4) They support terrorism by their short-viewshort-view foreign policy
5) They don't understand that their moral views are not universally shared.

AND DON'T FORGET WE ALSO HAVE THE BOMB

:D :D :D :D :D :D

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 08:29 AM
Ahhh fond memories of the 80's.

I remember after that horrid Lockerbee Plane Bombing, we nailed it to Khadafi (sp?) and sent planes to get his ass.

France did not allow the US to fly through their air space.

The French Embassy somehow got hit my a stray bomb.

Hey France has some really hot chicks though, and some nice cooking techniques sure come from there too!

Nothing more amusing than a pissed off Frenchman.LOL!!!!!!!

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 08:46 AM
Hey France has some really hot chicks though, and some nice cooking techniques sure come from there too!

And we like to destroy and some Mc Donalds fast-foods :D


France did not allow the US to fly through their air space.

The US don't realize that we have a longer experience of international terrorism than they do. We had tens of bombs and hundreds of victims during the 80s' & 90s'. We didn't attack any country as an act of revenge, & now have excellent relations with everyone. They maybe should learn from us :D


Nothing more amusing than a pissed off Frenchman.LOL!!!!!!!

And also nothing more amusing than :

1) an American discovering that France had veto right at the UN
2) Colin Powell and Tony Blair refering at an old-dated PhD dissertation as it was accurate intelligence information, and being aware of this mistake only a few days later
3) Colin Powell showing 1993 pictures and dating them 2002
4) American citizens still believing to all the propaganda they can read/hear/see

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 08:55 AM
Hey pal, France would be called "South Germany" if it weren't for British and American intervention.

Funny, the term "Napoleonic Complex" comes to mind.

You know. The little guy with something to prove.

Even French people don't like French people LOL.

And Jerry Lewis? What is wrong with you people?

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 09:05 AM
Of course we hate ourselves. It allows us to hate also (decreasing order) 1. US 2. UK 3. RFA

And we have a weapon that Americans don't even know about : irony.

BTW, would the US be a superpower would the Nazis rule the world? Didn't they save themselves by liberating us?

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 09:14 AM
I counter your silly irony with my stronger and more dependable sarcasm!

See as an American, I have the best of both worlds. Superpower AND we like ourselves.

You should move here, free yourself from the pouting ironic and hardly showered bonds that shackle you.

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 09:29 AM
Doesn't seem to be much freedom of thought these days in the US, does it ?

Come here to the country of free thinking. Free yourself from binary thinking !

Come to a country where life doesn't look like an Hollywood pre-formated movie.

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 09:31 AM
Dude, my STATE is as big as your country, and right now sitting where I am, things seem pretty free to me.

Don't believe everything you read in your little leftist periodicals!

They lie!

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 09:42 AM
Our anti-americanism history is allready one century long, and it's shared by right & left :D

But hate is so close from love ;)

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 09:48 AM
Well maybe if you would tidy up the water there, maybe widen the roads a little bit and spend less time at the cafe and more time doing something.......other than sitting around talking about Americans, we could then, maybe, get along.

As long as there are women in the deal.

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 09:54 AM
and more time doing something.......other than sitting around talking about Americans

We Europeans once did something : we dicovered the Americas. Then we realized it was a bad thing and started doing nothing :P

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 09:58 AM
"We"

Whoa slow down there guy, I don't think you need to go from "France" to "We".

And far as I know, there were already millions of people already living here when this land was "discovered".

Hell do you know how cheap you fools sold us half of America for? The Louisianna purchase? Man, it must suck.

And don't even get me into people in African last week protesting for American internevtion against France.

You do, of course, know about that right?

Or are you watching the original Nutty Proffesor with Jerry Lewis again half crocked on red wine?

-SJ™

Another Cadaver
02-12-2003, 10:01 AM
As a correction, Froggy, no Frenchman ever discovered America. The only French explorer I can think of was Champlain and all he got was a skinny little lake upstate.

Your claim that Americans owe the French something because Europeans discovered America is like saying we owe you something because Europeans discovered geometry. You, decidedly, are not all Europeans, you are French, and that comes with hating and being hated by most other Europeans you want to claim as part of yourself.

And more, where do French people get off telling America we're undemocratic? Need I remind you of DeGaulle and that whole martial law/Algeria thing?

I guess that's the problem, you Europeans might have the irony down, but you have terribly short memories when it suits you.

jetje
02-12-2003, 10:03 AM
America superpower -SJ™ ???? If they were superpower they could solve problems instead of creating them. Nice thing you said about the accident on the French embassy
The French Embassy somehow got hit my a stray bomb. It shows who you really are, not much different as what you call terrorists. You just fight for the US of A cause. <_<

edit btw who are your forfathers. Most likely they weren&#39;t native as well.

@another cadaver, yes the US are undemocratic. If they weren&#39;t they would wait and listen to what the UN (representation of THE WHOLE WORLD) is gonna decide. But hell if that turns out no war, you actually think
your democratic governement is gonna listen to that. Don&#39;t think so so your "democratic" governement seems pretty much wanting to be the dictator of the "free" <_< world.

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 10:09 AM
And far as I know, there were already millions of people already living here when this land was "discovered".

But those million people didn&#39;t live long, did they?



Hell do you know how cheap you fools sold us half of America for?

Seeing how it looks now, I think we made an excellent deal &#33;


And don&#39;t even get me into people in African last week protesting for American internevtion against France.

Are you talking about Ivory Coast? If you Americans want to go there & get killed for protecting people, please do&#33; We&#39;d be very happy to get out of this.

Another Cadaver
02-12-2003, 10:11 AM
Hey jetje,

at least America has a policy. I read a great article in a reputable journal about French action in Africa. They are currently stationed there with full military presence, but are doing nothing to stop the civil war/genocide because, as the french soldier interviewed put it, they don&#39;t yet know who will win. Rather than side with morality or ideals, they are waiting to see who wins, and in Africa who knows how long that could take, or how many lives it will cost.

One thing is true about America--we have a moral agenda. It might now always be the best one, but at least we try.

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 10:13 AM
Christ must we start again with the accusations?

I am generally dissing the French as he is the Americans, nothing personal. Nobody got killed or hurt in the French Embassy when that bomb hit and it is only conjecture that some pilot did so on purpose.

But you come back at ME with this accusation of WHO I AM, again, while we are playfully posting back and forth me and this guy.

Dude, you are starting to get on my nerves right about now, so give it a rest okay?

Just stop attacking ME PERSONALLY or I will start returning the favor jetje, for real. I am sick of it. I can&#39;t even say something in jest about an incident that happened when I was a kid without you TELLING ME WHO I AM AND WHAT I STAND FOR.

Again, go here (http://webdesignerscentral.com/SUPERJUDE/index.html) and after you do, and you think about what I did and saw, stop COMPARING ME TO TERRORIST or we really are going to have a problem bro, and I mean that.

You are saying the WRONG thing by insinuating that, once again, and you need to check yourself buddy. I swear to god, you say anything comparing me to a terrorist again and it&#39;s ON, you got me?

-SJ™

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 10:22 AM
One thing is true about America--we have a moral agenda. It might now always be the best one, but at least we try.

That&#39;s the difference between the US and France. You talk about moral. We talk about law and justice.

And as you know moral is something very subjective, whereas law is a more objective concept.

And I hate the way your officials always speak about God. Whose God is that? Don&#39;t you realize that Bin Ladden & co also say they act in the name of God?

France fights for ideas & ideals, not for morals & God, whoever this God is.

About Ivory Cost the ruling president is an asshole, & so are the rebels. Would you like we&#39;d come & say "you guys are all assholes, so we decided to colonize you again and put you into direct French rule" ?

(EDIT : But anyway I don&#39;t think has a very good way of solving the problem. It seems that our president received a lot of money from Gbagbo, it puts the government into a very difficult situation&#33;&#33;)

Another Cadaver
02-12-2003, 10:32 AM
Obviously, you shouldn&#39;t colonize again, but take some responsibility.

It is the French&#39;s fault there is currently civil war in Ivory Coast (or Cote d&#39;Ivoire when you guys stole it).

It is the French&#39;s fault there was conflict in Vietnam (or French Indochina, or Indochine, when you guys stole that).

It was the French (with the help of the British) that drew arbitrary lines all across the Mid-East and caused a lot of the conflict there over boundaries (they speak French in Lebanon)

When you suddenly decide after centuries of playing keep up with other European colonial powers that it is wrong to subjugate entire populations to your rule, you can&#39;t just leave. What is left? No money, no infrastructure, none of this "Law and Order" you so cherish.

You can&#39;t facilitate Law and Order by wishing real hard that it will happen, you have to be active. So here, as in business, the French again fall to being lazy. I guess it goes along with their long lunch breaks and extended summer holidays.

Another Cadaver
02-12-2003, 10:36 AM
The bottom line is every nation has an agenda that a lot of the people don&#39;t agree with. I don&#39;t hate the French, I don&#39;t hate the Saudi&#39;s, but I disagree with their governments a lot of the time, just like I disagree with America&#39;s. But I voted, and my say was heard (minimally).

I guess I&#39;m just tired (after travelling around Europe this summer) of trying to defend America to the rest of the world. I believe it is the greatest country on earth, and that&#39;s my right, just as it is yours to think the same about France. But don&#39;t think for an instant that all Americans agree with our policies, and don&#39;t attack us for our patriotism.

al_birkett
02-12-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by ketoprak@12 February 2003 - 11:22

One thing is true about America--we have a moral agenda. It might now always be the best one, but at least we try.

That&#39;s the difference between the US and France. You talk about moral. We talk about law and justice.

And as you know moral is something very subjective, whereas law is a more objective concept.

And I hate the way your officials always speak about God. Whose God is that? Don&#39;t you realize that Bin Ladden & co also say they act in the name of God?

France fights for ideas & ideals, not for morals & God, whoever this God is.

About Ivory Cost the ruling president is an asshole, & so are the rebels. Would you like we&#39;d come & say "you guys are all assholes, so we decided to colonize you again and put you into direct French rule" ?

(EDIT : But anyway I don&#39;t think has a very good way of solving the problem. It seems that our president received a lot of money from Gbagbo, it puts the government into a very difficult situation&#33;&#33;)
Bin Ladden & co also say they act in the name of God?



Bin Laden is ex CIA &#33; ;)

al_birkett
02-12-2003, 10:39 AM
:( :( That post did&#39;nt work :( :(

not quite got the hang of quotes

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 10:44 AM
Cadaver,

About post-colonial problems I can agree with you. And we are sure not proud about it.

But about Vietnam, may I remind you that after our (lost) war, there was no problem there except you anti-communist phobia at that time which made you start a much longer and more useless one.

Now your phobia goes to islam... and you&#39;ll discover sooner or later that your fight is counter productive. It will just make other cadavers, my dear another cadaver.

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 10:58 AM
and don&#39;t attack us for our patriotism

Well, may I remind you the beginning of this thread ? It was about the headlines of the US press, injurious about France.

We in France, even if we (now) disagree with the US policy, would never have this kind of headlines. Never would we be injuriating other people or nations.

And patriotism may be a good thing in terms of national unity, but shouldn&#39;t be built against other people, cultures or nations. That&#39;s very dangerous and leads directly to hate.

"The Avatar Man"
02-12-2003, 11:06 AM
I dont think much of frenchies so here.
1.Why don&#39;t they have fireworks at Euro Disney? Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.
2.Q-how can you tell if a frechmen has been in your backyard? A-your garbage is gone and your dog is pregnant&#33;
3.What did the Mayor of Paris say to the German Army as they entered during WWII? "Table for One Hundred Thousand?".
4.A frenchwoman with a parrot on her shoulder walks into a bar. the barman says "Thats an real ugle bird u got there. Where did u get it? The parrot says " i got it in France ..theres millions of em there"
5.Whats the best place to hide your money ? A: under the soap of a frenchman
6.Q. What do you do if you see 90,000,000 dead french-men? A. Stop laughing and re-load&#33;&#33;
7.Q: How do you stop a French tank? A: Shoot the guy that&#39;s pushing it&#33;
8.Q: What do you call 20 dead frenchmen in the back of a lorry. A: A good days hunting.
9.Three guys, an Englishman, a Frenchman and an American are out walking along the beach together one day. They come across a lantern and a genie pops out of it. "I will give you each one wish, " says the genie. The American says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in America." With a blink of the genie&#39;s eye, &#39;FOOM&#39; - the land in America was forever made fertile for farming. The Frenchman was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around France, so that no one can come into our precious country." Again, with a blink of the Genie&#39;s eye, &#39;POOF&#39; - there was a huge wall around France. The Englishman asks, "I&#39;m very curious. Please tell me more about this wall. The Genie explains, "Well, it&#39;s about 150 feet high, 50 feet thick and nothing can get in or out." The Englishman says, "Fill it up with water."
10.Did you hear about the Frenchman who lost his licence to practice medicin? He was caught having sex with some of his patients. It&#39;s a shame, he was by far the best vet in town.
11.Q: Why do French men have moustashes? A: To remind them of their mothers.
12.Q: How long does it take a french woman to have a poo? A: 9 months
13.The French zoo had acquired a very rare species of gorilla. Within a few weeks, the female gorilla became very cranky and difficult to handle. Upon examination, the zoo veterinarian determined the problem. The gorilla was in heat. To make matters worse, there were no male gorilla species available.

While reflecting on their problem, the zoo administrators noticed Pierre, an employee responsible for cleaning the animals&#39; cages. Pierre, it was rumoured, had the ability to satisfy any female, but he wasn&#39;t very bright. So the zoo administrators thought they might have a solution.

Pierre was approached with a proposition: would he be willing to have sex with the gorilla for five hundred Francs? Pierre showed some interest, but said he would have to think the matter over carefully.

The following day, Pierre announced that he would accept their offer, but only under three conditions. "First," he said, "I don&#39;t want to have to kiss her. Secondly, I want nothing to do with any offspring that may result from this union."

The zoo administration quickly agreed to these conditions, so they asked what about the third condition. "Well," said Pierre, "you&#39;ve gotta give me another week to come up with the five hundred Francs."
14.There was a Frenchman, an Englishman and Claudia Schiffer sitting together in a carriage in a train going through Provence. Suddenly the train went through a tunnel and as it was an old style train, there were no lights in the carriages and it went completely dark. Then there was a kissing noise and the sound of a really loud slap. When the train came out of the tunnel, Claudia Schiffer and the Englishman were sitting as if nothing had happened and the Frenchman had his hand against his face as if he had been slapped there. The Frenchman was thinking: &#39;The English fella must have kissed Claudia Schiffer and she missed him and slapped me instead.&#39; Claudia Schiffer was thinking: &#39;The French fella must have tried to kiss me and actually kissed the Englishman and got slapped for it.&#39; And the Englishman was thinking: &#39;This is great. The next time the train goes through a tunnel I&#39;ll make another kissing noise and slap that French bastard again.
15.Q. What&#39;s the difference between a Frenchwoman and a werewolf? A. The Frenchwoman is not quite as hairy but the werewolf smells better
16,. Why did the French plant trees along the Champs Elysees? A. So the Germans could march in the shade
:lol:

chloe_cc2002
02-12-2003, 11:12 AM
Who were the best of the worst colonists? :)

The British did leave infrastructure and a culture :rolleyes:, a system of justice that was relatively speaking better than the French system. They all screwed the local population, raped and plundered their resources etc. Neo-colonialism, economic imperialism, whatever you choose to call it is a legacy of colonialism. The Belgians intentionally destroyed infrastructure when they left the Congo. The Dutch left no goodwill behind. The Portuguese and the Spanish ..cough...perhaps I&#39;ll leave it there.

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 11:30 AM
French were the worst colonists ever, because they went into hypocritical sentimental & affective links with the people they colonized. It left very deep psychological scars in terms of civilizations when they left. Their ex-colonial empire never became fully independent, still suffering an inferiority complex.

I think the best colons were the Dutch. They just colonized for money and didn&#39;t even teach their language to the people they colonized. They were very quickly forgotten when they left.

British were not that bad also, as you say, also in terms of education.

chloe_cc2002
02-12-2003, 11:45 AM
In terms of cruelty the Portuguese and Spanish win hands down. :( Men like Cortez.

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 12:48 PM
Just slightly off-topic...

<PROPAGANDA>

Whoever will be in Paris on the Saturday February 15th can join the national unitarian demonstration "No to a war against Irak. Yes to a world of Justice, Peace and Democracy".

Starting from place Denfert-Rochereau at 14:00
Going to Bastille.

</PROPAGANDA>

Sorry for this doesn&#39;t fit the guidelines (which I didn&#39;t read :unsure: ) . Everyone&#39;s wellcome.
I&#39;ll be there but you won&#39;t find me as you don&#39;t know me ;)

Jonne
02-12-2003, 12:55 PM
Why are all you people bashing at France?
it&#39;s not the only government opposing to a war in Iraq, Germany and Belgium are also against it, (and i think Iraq is against it too...).
At least these governments (except for Iraq ofcourse) listen to the people, instead of Bush.

Also, Bush just wants this war for oil, but if he thinks he&#39;ll be able to just take over the country and make it another state, he&#39;s wrong. The muslims there won&#39;t tolerate it.

Rat Faced
02-12-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by ketoprak@12 February 2003 - 10:58

and don&#39;t attack us for our patriotism

Well, may I remind you the beginning of this thread ? It was about the headlines of the US press, injurious about France.

We in France, even if we (now) disagree with the US policy, would never have this kind of headlines. Never would we be injuriating other people or nations.

And patriotism may be a good thing in terms of national unity, but shouldn&#39;t be built against other people, cultures or nations. That&#39;s very dangerous and leads directly to hate.
Excuse me?

Your media doesnt attack ANY other country?

Im from the UK, and your media is not exactly flattering...but, i&#39;ll forgive you, as it works both ways.



I did tell you Yanks not to come down on the Germans or French...It is OUR job....its a national hobby, and we want to keep it that way.

Find your own &#39;Natural&#39; enemies and stop stealing ours.

If you hate them that much, give them that Damn statue in New York back...coz you lot have forgotten what it means.


And Jonne, you can count the UK as not wanting this war too...Its just Blaire.

Made me proud to learn that 30% of our reserve forces that were called up told the Government to Fuck Off, and refused the call out :D

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 01:31 PM
Your media doesnt attack ANY other country?

Im from the UK, and your media is not exactly flattering...but, i&#39;ll forgive you, as it works both ways.

No, we don&#39;t have the same kind of tabloids as you do. And no media here call you Brits &#39;beefsteaks&#39; as some are saying in answer to your &#39;froggy&#39;. But that&#39;s the people and not the media. There&#39;s never been any mediatic campaign against the Brits, or it was before WWII.

Anyway we quite enjoy the &#39;bird names&#39; we&#39;re given and see nothing serious about it ;)

Reversely I don&#39;t think the US are joking when they call us bastards :angry:

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 01:37 PM
Find your own &#39;Natural&#39; enemies and stop stealing ours.

Agree with Rat Faced. We also enjoy our traditional ennemy. They&#39;re more funny than you. We just love to enter their country via "Waterloo station" and we prefer their crazy cows to your hormon beef. :D

Cyn v4.1
02-12-2003, 03:56 PM
too many replies to waste my time reading.
the fact is, none of you frenchies or french sympathizers will suddenly read
what someone has posted and say "you know, that guy is right.
i have been wrong about america this whole time. my world view
has changed now." and that goes the same for americans like me.
as far as i am concerned, the french look out for themselves first
as do ALL countries. i just wish AMERICA COULD GET THE RESPECT IT
DESERVES FOR SAVING THE WORLD IN WWII.
do you understand WE SAVED THE WORLD.(of course not alone but without us all would be lost)
i know you will say that making a comment like the above, is the very
reason you despise americans. thats fine. but look at past histroy
to the present and tell me which country is strong and proud,
as opposed to weak and bitter&#33;

-every reply after this one will reflect that very thought-

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 04:16 PM
i just wish AMERICA COULD GET THE RESPECT IT
DESERVES FOR SAVING THE WORLD IN WWII.

That&#39;s not the point. Doing something good once doesn&#39;t give you every rights&#33; The US may have saved the world (and we&#39;re all thankfull about that), they&#39;ve also killed - directly or not - millions of innocent people. And once again, they&#39;ve "saved the world" in their own interest.


which country is strong and proud,
as opposed to weak and bitter&#33;

I&#39;m sorry to say but since 9.11 you&#39;re more acting like a bitter nation. If you were self-confident enough you wouldn&#39;t blame people who&#39;ve nothing to do with what happened to you.

And being strong - to my opinion - is not attacking weak nations. That&#39;s too easy. Being strong is trying to understand the roots of a problem - even if it hurts. And it seems that the US didn&#39;t even try to understand why they&#39;ve been bombed. Sorry to say that, but the US are more acting like an angry child than like an adult person.

Cyn v4.1
02-12-2003, 04:34 PM
as i said before, these replies will not change ppls minds.
we do things in our own interests as all countries do, which is a point i already made. as far as going after weaker countries, that is something we can not help as all countries are weaker than the U.S.(with the possible exception of china which has remained militarily nuetral from foreign affairs and will remain to). and as to the millions we have killed, i find it insane to post such numbers that must be inculding ppl killed from starvation blamed on our sanctions while their countries leaders build numerous palaces
the size of small cities.
to say we are not self confident is really a thoughless comment
considering it is the basis for much of the hatred America receives.
and to finish, letting irag keep weapons of mass destruction is not
in the interest of any country. if saddam would disarm peacefully
we would not go to war. the choice is his, we are just the country that
finally said enough is enough.

Dan
02-12-2003, 04:35 PM
my wife has Irag plz 2 look at themmmmmmmmmmmmm

Jonne
02-12-2003, 04:38 PM
And Jonne, you can count the UK as not wanting this war too...Its just Blair.

i was going to put it there, but i wasn&#39;t really sure about it, since some tabloid wrote something about our prime minister ("some belgian bloke noone ever heard of" (sic)) : they said he just wanted to protect the belgian chocolate market, but that&#39;s wrong. (Interbrew wants to take over the world too...)

i know Blair is just Bush&#39;s little puppy (isn&#39;t he cute *cough* ;-) )
i also read somewhere in this forum that 70% of the people in Spain are opposed to a war, and i don&#39;t think the majority in any European country (make that the whole world except the US) wants a war...

edit: Rat Faced: I didn&#39;t know Blair added an -e to his last name. Did he change gender or something?

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 04:51 PM
we do things in our own interests as all countries do, which is a point i already made

If you see things like that, let&#39;s say it&#39;s not on France interest to attack Irak. So why do you complain ?

And regarding US interest, if the idea is to stop terrorism, I don&#39;t think it&#39;s on their interest to crack down on Irak. It will reversely increase hatred against America, and you&#39;ll get more bombs or whatsoever.

Just look how Islam has radicalized since the US started their "war against terror".


letting irag keep weapons of mass destruction

OK, if proven they have any. Which is not the case now. Up to now we only have theories, and faked evidences. :(

Cyn v4.1
02-12-2003, 05:00 PM
okay, well if you actually believe that we "faked evidence" then i wont
waste time argueing that point.

If you see things like that, let&#39;s say it&#39;s not on France interest to attack Irak. So why do you complain ?
i think the interest of france in this case is to oppose the U.S.
france doesnt give a shit about iraq.

Jonne
02-12-2003, 05:00 PM
In WWII, the stupid french were shooting AGAINST the liberation forces on D-day....
They did the same in N. Africa........
don&#39;t generalize, there were French people who collaborated, and they got their punishment, but quite a lot of them were in the resistance, and helped getting crashed British pilots back into Great Britain...

or did you just mean that the stupid ones did, and the smarter ones didn&#39;t?

Some stupid forefather of Bush (i think his grandpa) helped financing the &#39;3rd reich&#39; in the 1940&#39;s, so the Bush family is no family of saints...
(did I mention that he also stole Geronimo&#39;s skull?)

edit: about Bush&#39;s Grandpa (http://www.citizenslaw.net/_cases/MachsCat/BushFamily/on_the_bush_family.htm)

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 05:16 PM
okay, well if you actually believe that we "faked evidence" then i wont
waste time argueing that point.


chloe&#39;s post some days ago about this pb is somewhere in this thread (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=10944&st=75)

I&#39;d add that there are serious suspicions that the pictures shown by C Powell were taken in 1991, 92 & 93. That&#39;s what I read in my (usually reliable) newspaper this morning.

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 05:35 PM
I&#39;ll just say this: had those planes hit in London, Paris, Brussels, Stockholm etc, you would have a much different outlook on the world.

Maybe not Iraq because a lot of us Americans would rather see our armed forces fighting terrorist cells in Northern Africa where they train, or go after the money trail that leads to Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

However, on a general level, YOU deal with planes crashing and Anthrax in your region and watch people flock to the stores to buy survival provisions, worried about their kids lives, and you would feel pretty isolated when the rest of the world tries to cast your entire country and everybody in it as warmongering Americans. It sucks, it really does.

-SJ™

Jonne
02-12-2003, 05:38 PM
I´m not a racist...I don´t have problems with minoritiets or people with different religions...I don´t discriminate any.. I don´t care if you are man, woman, child, dog, cat, fish, plant-life or even minerals * you name it* I don´t like it .o)

I&#39;ve read your post, and i think you might consider changing your signature...

I know the French don&#39;t really speak other languages, but it&#39;s for our own good. Have you ever heard a French person speak English? Their accent is terrible. ;)

Cyn v4.1
02-12-2003, 05:49 PM
I&#39;d add that there are serious suspicions that the pictures shown by C Powell were taken in 1991, 92 & 93. That&#39;s what I read in my (usually reliable) newspaper this morning.
okay to really think we doctored or lied about the satelite survailence
only shows to me the extent to which you will go to oppose the U.S.
instead of realizing that saddam is lying about having weapons
of mass destruction is even worse. those two points combined
make me believe you wouldnt support our efforts even we if
pulled a vile of anthrax out of saddams own pockets.
you would say david blane planted it. GET FUCKING REAL.

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by SuperJude™@12 February 2003 - 18:35
I&#39;ll just say this: had those planes hit in London, Paris, Brussels, Stockholm etc, you would have a much different outlook on the world.
Oh boy, we know what bombs are. We had tens of them during the last twenty years. It was not as spectacular as what you&#39;ve had, it didn&#39;t kill 2000 persons but someting like 200 (considering we&#39;re only 60 milllion here), some of them in places I often go. We never attacked anyone for that reason.

And btw you&#39;ve exactly the same way of seeing things as a Palestinian human bomb&#33;

And I&#39;d like to speak about my Indonesian friends who live in your country and who have to suffer the daily racism of your people since 9.11 whereas they are the most moderate muslims, and for some of them are christians &#33;

jetje
02-12-2003, 06:05 PM
Here we go again the Anthrax thingy 10 letters where delivered. The Anthrax used was probably from within the USA. And oooh we&#39;re scared from anthrax. Yeah right. Think the us has more anthrax as Iraq.
You all can&#39;t get one thing strait. Iraq has nothing more to do with the last terrorist attack as you and me have.
It&#39;s just because some fucked up sits in the white house completely frustrated that he can&#39;t catch the real terrorist. Before they can throw that too his head he attacks the problem by invading another countrie.
Which is not in the US of A so you all probably don&#39;t know where it is but you all seem to remember it from the television soap "The gulf War". It&#39;s just politics.

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 06:21 PM
It is politics and that is why so many Americans are having a hard time with it. Just do not forget that "where the Anthrax came from" has little to do with the fear it caused.

Nobody said it was not from the USA, my point is that there is a mindset, especially here in NY and the East Coast where this all happened, that is unique. All the stuff you read about? It all happened in a small area of this country, here in the Northeast, so yes we are a bit defensive..

Here is my hope: that they are using this Iraq thing to take media coverage away from something else (and better) that we are REALLY doing. I would like that to be true, I really would. Destroying Iraq will not make me sleep better at night.

But people have a little sympathy here, where I live, where I was born and where I grew up has changed dramatically in a year and a half, and not all in a good way. Discussing national politics or mourning for a country that we are not even engaged in war with yet will not change what happened here.

Maybe it really IS a New York thing, but I guess as the saying goes "You had to be there".

-SJ™

Jonne
02-12-2003, 06:40 PM
http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act...=6227&hl=racism (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=6227&hl=racism)

Rat Faced
02-12-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by SuperJude™@12 February 2003 - 17:35
I&#39;ll just say this: had those planes hit in London, Paris, Brussels, Stockholm etc, you would have a much different outlook on the world.

Maybe not Iraq because a lot of us Americans would rather see our armed forces fighting terrorist cells in Northern Africa where they train, or go after the money trail that leads to Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

However, on a general level, YOU deal with planes crashing and Anthrax in your region and watch people flock to the stores to buy survival provisions, worried about their kids lives, and you would feel pretty isolated when the rest of the world tries to cast your entire country and everybody in it as warmongering Americans. It sucks, it really does.

-SJ™
SJ,

We&#39;ve had years of terrorism, in which more people have died (albeit not all at once) than in WTC...we didnt answer this by re-invading Ireland. This would have made the situation worse.

And we have had Ricin here in the last few weeks....a lot worse than Anthrax, and as you keep pointing out, this country could fit into one state over there a couple of times over.

This hasnt made the population want to go to war with a country that has absolutely nothing to do with Islamic Fundamentalists (which the terrorists are).

The population here are so much against it that 30% (yes thats right 1/3) of reservists told the Government to fuck off when their call up papers arrived...these same people went to Desert Storm, Bosnia and even Afganistan, so its not cowardise...hell they know THAT war will take a couple of weeks to win. (even if the backlash lasts decades).

The comparisons for you are: 2% didnt go to Desert Storm, 5% didnt go to Afganistan...government expected 8% not to go to this.

These people would rather go to Jail than go to war against Iraq....because its wrong, simple as that.

And the Government is in so much hot water over the policy that they arent prosecuting any of them..why? Because what they are doing is illegal and if it went to court THE COURTS WOULD STOP THEM.

They cant afford to change the Law, because that means they have to admit to the British Public they have been acting illegally and Lying....I love it.


@ Jonne..... No I think Blair prefers wearing Dresses, hence Blaire :P

@ Cyn v4.1... A lot of the evidence was over 10 years old, and im sorry but look at your history books if you think the CIA is above faking evidence. He also pointed to Blairs evidence and praised it as true...before it was pointed out that it was quite largely a cut/paste of a 10 year old college essay. Did you LISTEN to those tapes? &#39;Get rid of the Ammo&#39;, &#39;What Ammo?&#39;, &#39;THE Ammo we&#39;re not supposed to have&#39;, &#39;The Chemicals&#39;, &#39;Yes&#39;,&#39;Oh, ill bury them then&#39;.....yes really, over an unsecure line? When they knew they were being tapped by every intellogence agency in the world? It sounded like an episode of SOAP.

I have to praise CIA for disproving Mossads attempt to link Hussain with Al Queda though, a year ago....shame that the CIA&#39;s evidence was never actually given the same &#39;airtime&#39; as Mossads frame up...but thats FOX and CNN for you.

@ The Americans that think they are the only &#39;Proud and Confident&#39; People in the world...look at your Stock Market and Economy...shit, the investers arent exactly confident.

I have a load of Pride that Im British, and the French are also Proud (although Im at a loss as to why ;) ) and im sure everyone else is Proud to be from wherever they are from...so please, bring something to the debate apart from arrogance....coz thats what got you in the shit your in now....an Arrogant Foreign Policy.

Jonne
02-12-2003, 08:06 PM
Did you LISTEN to those tapes? &#39;Get rid of the Ammo&#39;, &#39;What Ammo?&#39;, &#39;THE Ammo we&#39;re not supposed to have&#39;, &#39;The Chemicals&#39;, &#39;Yes&#39;,&#39;Oh, ill bury them then&#39;.....yes really, over an unsecure line? When they knew they were being tapped by every intellogence agency in the world?
yes, that could have been anyone.

what was the rest of the so-called evidence? some blurred satellite photo&#39;s, some pipelines that could aswell have been used for Saddams sewers, and some nice 3d renderings of trucks...

and a report they copied without even giving the credit to the original authors (if i&#39;d have written that, i&#39;d sue the bastards&#33;)

SuperJude™
02-12-2003, 08:36 PM
ketoprak- you are just a moron looking for an arguement. You don&#39;t know fuck all about me so watch what you say. I am just like the Palestinians who blow themselves up? See you lost me there and I will now read all your comments and think you are some small minded fool needing to argue. You really didn&#39;t read what I wrote did you?

Seems like a lot of you do that. Skip the point and take a little bit to mean what you want. I of ALL PEOPLE at this board knows what death on that scale looks like and no I am not enthralled about Iraq, never said I was, ever.

I never said I ahted muslims. Actually I said in another thread that if the problem were Muslims, we would be screwed cause there are 1 billion Muslims in this world, and 1 billion people are surely not attacking us. I have clearly stated I think the problems are the terrorist camps and the Regimes that support them, stated that very clearly.

I actually NEVER gave my view on how to make war other than the terrist camp thing, never said kill them all, yet it amazes me how people interpret things.

Nobody will change my thoughts that this all sucks and none of you have to deal with it, at all, and there is a mounting frustration in me at not being able to do anything. I wish war was not looming but guess what? If it does MY FRIENDS have to serve, and I support THOSE FRIENDS and hope they live, which some of them won&#39;t.

I do not particularly love the govt. we have, stated that too. I think the powers that be get blinded but if they had strong support for this war, we would be there, but then again a lot of the people protesting also spit on our GI&#39;s coming home from Vietnam and called them all baby killers.

I can&#39;t stand ther right or the left, they are equally full of shit, don&#39;t you see that?

"It&#39;s about OIL&#33;"

Yeah if every moron at a website knows that, is it obvious or is it crap? I love how people "know" things from what they read in the paper, I really do, just peachy, really.

Don&#39;t use me as your little whipping by for your views and stop trying to convince me that somehow I am not supposed to feel bad about 9-11 cause you have had problems in your countries okay? You can&#39;t DO that&#33; Well you can, it&#39;s the internet, but it isn&#39;t right. Nobody killed by terrorism deserved it, be they American, French, Brit, Hindu, Muslim okay? You people MUST stop discounting what happened like we deserved it or something.

Seems like all you people do is pass blame and point fingers and if anybody disagrees with you, well then, it&#39;s cause we are American and our country sucks. And you wonder why we aren&#39;t really fond of the rest of the world? I live in a tourist town and people from abroad sure have a lot of opinions on how things are supposed to be here.

I don&#39;t insult your dead don&#39;t fucking insult mine.

This international mudslinging is fine, but I DO detect a tone of predjudice, very much so, even from people I thought knew better.

This isn&#39;t about Iraq, because this rhetoric has been swarming since 9-11,and if you people had your way Osama would still be running Afghanistan right now while you talk about how horrible America is.

Topics like this make me sad.

You know who I would like to speak to? Somebody from Iraq, not people who have lost nobody and will lose nobody, people who talk talk talk and it is purely conjecture. Must be easy to have opinions nice and safe where there was no Anthrax (once again jejte trying to stay on my bad side) no planes crashing, no threat of water supply being poisoned or dirty bombs going off. Purely conjecture to most of you.

It hurts to read it.

Sure, going to was in Iraq may be retarded, and in the end it may not, I really don&#39;t know the final answer, I&#39;m not God. But does that mean it has to be open season on Americans?

Seems like a lot of you just can&#39;t wait to make negative comments about our people and our country, like you have been brought up that way.

Here we call that predjudice, so don&#39;t window dress it as politics because now you have something with which to point out to us just how much we as a country suck.

Yeah.

God forbid I actually love my country huh?

I would like to have seen any of you talk this kind of shit at the Trade Center, for real, cause not in a million years would you.

Not in a million years.

Jonne
02-12-2003, 08:48 PM
we&#39;re not minimising what happened in NY, Washington and Pennsylvania, we&#39;re just saying that there&#39;s no direct link between terrorism and Iraq, and that a war in Iraq will only cause more terrorism.

and that&#39;s something nobody wants...

Rat Faced
02-12-2003, 08:58 PM
Nobody killed by terrorism deserved it, be they American, French, Brit, Hindu, Muslim okay? You people MUST stop discounting what happened like we deserved it or something.

Can I echo that SJ?

I know ppl killed by terrorists too.

No cause is worth the lives of innocents to make a &#39;point&#39;....be it a &#39;terrorist&#39; organisation or a Government.


I hope you werent thinking i was attacking you or Americans in General SJ, and im sorry if it came across that way (except that bit at &#39;The Americans that think&#39; which wasnt aimed at you, it was aimed at someone else) Im on record many times as attacking the American GOVERNMENT....and indeed my own, not the people.

In my view they are wholly different in nature, temperament and views.

Even that swipe on blue on blue in another thread...its the US Government/Military that refused to appologise....The airmen themselves did, and got bollicked by their own officers for doing it....I&#39;ll edit my post to make that clearer.



edited: typo

Zedax
02-12-2003, 09:11 PM
Could all those Nationalists
who are ready to die for their motherland
please do it now

ketoprak
02-12-2003, 09:13 PM
SuperJude,

First of all I feel really sorry if I offended you, it was not the purpose. The sentence about the human bomb was somehow misplaced, I agree. I didn&#39;t intend to insult your deads, as I won&#39;t ever insult any dead. The thing I was criticizing was the whole &#39;revenge&#39; idea, this &#39;an eye for an eye&#39; which I think is stupid.

And don&#39;t tell me I don&#39;t know what I&#39;m talking about. You want to know ? I stayed three months in war-torn city of Ambon. Do you know where that is ? Do you even know what&#39;s happening there ? In this indonesian islands people have been fighting for three years for religious reasons. Christians against Muslims, Muslims against Christians. I stayed in both communities, and you know what ? They both were right. When your child is dead you need for revenge, there&#39;s nothing to say about it.

And you know what&#39;s the most surprising ? It&#39;s not the Muslims there who hate Americans most. It&#39;s the Christians. They think that your policy towards Afghanistan, then towards Irak is worthening the situation for them, by infuriating the Muslims. They also think it&#39;s not tolerable that nobody in this world talks about their 17,000 deads whereas they hear every days about yours.

I&#39;ve lost many friends there and I&#39;ve seen many atrocities, I know what&#39;s a putrefacting body, I know what&#39;s the fear at any noise your hear. And for these reasons I will never support a war if I&#39;m not 100% sure that this war is needed.


(edit : some of my poor English)

khhora
02-13-2003, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by Jonne@12 February 2003 - 17:38

i also read somewhere in this forum that 70% of the people in Spain are opposed to a war
Actually the 74% of , :) plus ALL the political parties except the one of the goberment (Not even the usual "partners" of the goverment have given their support. Not even their militants. Our goverment, our president is all alone), the major Universities, the whole Film and Art Academy, the Intellectuals, and many more...We are just hoping they hear our voices.

Another Cadaver
02-13-2003, 04:30 AM
Why have we suddenly turned this into a debate on terrorism? The true measure of whether it is in the best interests of the world to attack Saddam&#39;s regime is the UN resolution calling for weapons inspections.

After the Gulf War, Iraq had significant chemical and biological weapons and was working toward nuclear armament. The world saw this and resolved, under proper UN requirements, to mandate inspections of weapon sites and possible manufacturing plants. Iraq was required to give full disclosure to inspection teams. To ensure compliance, and to keep the world safe from these known weapons, the threat of war for non-compliance was included in the original resolution.

In 1998, after years of working in a non-compliant environment, in which secret sites called "presidential palaces" (actually thousands of acres of territory) were deemed off limits, the inspectors were finally kicked out. These actions, if the UN were serious, should have resulted in military intervention, but members of the security council were unwilling to act.

A new resolution was drawn up last year that called for the same inspections under the same compliance. Again, according to recent reports by the inspectors themselves, Iraq is hiding or neglecting to provide critical information. One example is the mysterious disappearance of thousands of missiles Iraq has said, but cannot prove, it destroyed.

Now world leaders in the UN are calling for more inspections. If the inspectors cannot do their job, what is the point? And when does the threat of military action become real? Iraq will continue trying to produce or hide weapons it is not allowed to have by international agreement unless the threats can be backed up. And as it stands now, they will not be.

It is time for the UN to stand up for what it resolved and for nations averse to military action to stand behind what they agreed to.

khhora
02-13-2003, 09:59 AM
Latest news: 80% of europeans are opposed to war (in Spain the news said 93% of citizens are opossed). European goverments may be divided. Europeans citizens are not. :)

We will be all expecting the inspectors reports tomorrow. UN has to decide, but it is quite important to have in mind (experts in International Laws have stated it) that if UN does not supports the war, a unilateral action will be ILLEGAL.

Rat Faced
02-13-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Another Cadaver@13 February 2003 - 04:30
Why have we suddenly turned this into a debate on terrorism? The true measure of whether it is in the best interests of the world to attack Saddam&#39;s regime is the UN resolution calling for weapons inspections.

After the Gulf War, Iraq had significant chemical and biological weapons and was working toward nuclear armament. The world saw this and resolved, under proper UN requirements, to mandate inspections of weapon sites and possible manufacturing plants. Iraq was required to give full disclosure to inspection teams. To ensure compliance, and to keep the world safe from these known weapons, the threat of war for non-compliance was included in the original resolution.

In 1998, after years of working in a non-compliant environment, in which secret sites called "presidential palaces" (actually thousands of acres of territory) were deemed off limits, the inspectors were finally kicked out. These actions, if the UN were serious, should have resulted in military intervention, but members of the security council were unwilling to act.

A new resolution was drawn up last year that called for the same inspections under the same compliance. Again, according to recent reports by the inspectors themselves, Iraq is hiding or neglecting to provide critical information. One example is the mysterious disappearance of thousands of missiles Iraq has said, but cannot prove, it destroyed.

Now world leaders in the UN are calling for more inspections. If the inspectors cannot do their job, what is the point? And when does the threat of military action become real? Iraq will continue trying to produce or hide weapons it is not allowed to have by international agreement unless the threats can be backed up. And as it stands now, they will not be.

It is time for the UN to stand up for what it resolved and for nations averse to military action to stand behind what they agreed to.
You honestly dont get it do you?



IF all UN resolutions were inforced, there would probably be no objection IF the UN backed military action.


But we are not hypocrits...why inforce ONLY the resolutions that suite YOU?

Why arent you calling on Israel to give back all that territory on threat of military action? (as an example)

OR threatening Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, South Africa....and every other country that has got hold of this type of weapon since the Security Council was set up (when the 5 permanent members were the ONLY ones).......they ALL had resolutions against them at the time of development/acquisition.

And the &#39;UN&#39; inspectors were not thrown out in 1998....The US contingent was, for passing information direct to US security organisations...ie Spying. (The CIA could have got the info through the Security Council, but just had to interfere) And this was the ONLY opposition to these new UN inspectors..They didnt want US Inspectors there...because of their actions last time.

And I still dont get how you are STILL mixing up &#39;Terrorism&#39; and an attack on Iraq....They are not linked subjects (except in that attacking Iraq will INCREASE Terrorism, and will be doing Al Queda a big favour...considering destabilising Iraq is one of ITS main objectives too).

There is no debate on the Terrorist issue.... There is a widespread debate on attacking Iraq.

jetje
02-13-2003, 01:45 PM
you know the 2nd ammendment of the US of A?

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Saddam just like big ones ;)

TraLaLa
05-08-2010, 06:00 AM
http://www.politicon.ro/files/photos/big/1/101/bomba_atomica.jpg

j2k4
05-09-2010, 02:26 PM
http://www.politicon.ro/files/photos/big/1/101/bomba_atomica.jpg

Well, now that's just purely fatalistic and depressing.

Can't have that; need to set sights a bit higher, I think.

Beeker
05-09-2010, 09:36 PM
now thats just wrong

Skiz
05-09-2010, 09:41 PM
http://www.politicon.ro/files/photos/big/1/101/bomba_atomica.jpg

Being a mod, I try to keep the name calling or negativity to a minimum, but, you just bumped a thread that is over SEVEN YEARS OLD just to post a fucking picture?

Are you an idiot at all?

j2k4
05-10-2010, 12:26 AM
Ooooh.

H4R5H.

Skiz
05-10-2010, 06:48 AM
He's soiling Rafi's good name.

TraLaLa
05-10-2010, 09:01 AM
just bored :tease:

if you want to scream do it.