Private trackers vs Usenet

[piercerseth]

https://pay.reddit.com/r/trackers/comments/2a8m75/i_dont_understand_the_benefit_of_private_trackers/

I know it's reddit after all, still baffles me this kind of ignorance exists. Not OP's question, but the answers. Worth a laugh to the elder usenet guys at the very least.

[Rart]

Why does that link read pay.reddit.com?

Either way there are a couple of idiots there but also a couple of people I do agree with. I think that's the general sentiment I have from any reddit threads I read.

Some things that I certainly think are valid:


Better retention of older files.
Much better organization scheme for choosing which files you want, ie if I want to download a single episode from a season pack it is incredibly difficult on usenet since the entire season is packed into one set of rars, while on torrents I just simply checkmark which episode I want.
It IS free if you want it to be (please don't say "everyone uses a seedbox anyway so usenet ends up being cheaper" because that's flat out false).
It's more newbie friendly.



What I dont agree with:


You have to double/triple download stuff (what? this makes absolutely no sense)
Private trackers are easier to get into (I would say it's substantially easier to get into a usenet site)




I can't comment on the automatic downloading though, as I personally don't use that at all.

[pootystomp]

Total nonsense, the haters just have never used it. Using ignorance as a defensive strategy is what Reddit is all about. The only downfall in my opinion is servers being susceptible to dmca takedowns. But usually that only effects things that have been posted for a while. Then by all means, use a private tracker.




(I would say it's substantially easier to get into a usenet site)

you would think the opposite after seeing people on this site constantly bitch about having to do anything.

[piercerseth]

Why does that link read pay.reddit.com?
HTTPS workaround, they have issues with ssl certs and their CDNs or something. Here (http://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1kd68m/why_doesnt_reddit_use_https/)

I wasn't trying to fanboy out, just a lot of what was posted (by norkamus in particular) struck me as wrong. I'm just glad to not be discussing the new rules for a little while :)

Retention (~2160 days or so for me).
Usenet downloaders typically don't receive dmca letters. I heard a private tracker user bitch not too long about receiving an infringement letter.
IRC & tight-knit communities aren't exclusive to trackers.
Good indexers vet releases.

On scene pretimes and content, they keep posting links to Corrupt's dupecheck. Ok then:

Game.of.Thrones.S04E10.720p.HDTV.x264-KILLERS (times based off my feed)
02:14:17 PRE
02:14:49 GFT wins race
02:17:19 NZB shows up

2m30s off the fastest tracker. Assuming the swarm maxes your line speed straight away and you don't have to scp/ftp content to your local machine.

With the rar thing (again), scene doesn't rar mp3s or flacs. You got me on TV/Movies.

Certainly P2P, internal encodes, and not having DMCA at the provider end are the three areas where trackers shine. The non scene stuff shows up, we just end up waiting a little longer.

[Rart]

just a lot of what was posted (by norkamus in particular) struck me as wrong.


I think Norkamus is incapable of reading, he appears to be comparing Private trackers to public trackers. And the fact that he seemed to get a decent amount of upvotes for a completely different topic perplexes me more.



With the rar thing (again), scene doesn't rar mp3s or flacs. You got me on TV/Movies.

While I do prefer non rar'd content, the main issue I have with it on usenet is not that it's rar'd, since the usenet program automatically unzips them and deletes the rars (and since you don't have to seed them it's ok to delete them), it's that it makes in impossible to download a single episode out of a pack. Say I just wanted to watch a pilot of an old show that was released in a season pack of some source. There's no way to just download the first episode.

[piercerseth]

the main issue I have with it on usenet is not that it's rar'd, since the usenet program automatically unzips them and deletes the rars (and since you don't have to seed them it's ok to delete them), it's that it makes in impossible to download a single episode out of a pack. Say I just wanted to watch a pilot of an old show that was released in a season pack of some source. There's no way to just download the first episode.

Very true. God forbid the rars are damaged you'll grab the whole thing, a whole bunch of pars, and wait for it to repair.

EDIT:

4) Top tier trackers are not all that hard to get into. Interview into WCD, get PU, and you can get on any of the common top-tier trackers.
I love how this is the default answer on /r/trackers. Sure. Spend a few hours on the what prep site, queue in irc, 1 hr+ on the test.
Micromanage the shit out of torrents I don't want, free leech, ratio games to 25GB + 5 uploads.

[chakara]

if I want to download a single episode from a season pack it is incredibly difficult on usenet since the entire season is packed into one set of rars, while on torrents I just simply checkmark which episode I want.

It's not "incredibly difficult" ...
Divide the number of rar files by the number of episodes and then multiply by the episode number you want.

For instance :

Stargate.SG-1.S09.720p.WEB-DL.DD 5.1.h.264-TjHD

Here : 313 rar files. That's 313/20 = 15,65 rar file per episode. So if I want episode 2, I download rars 15 to 33 (to account for variability in episode size, they're not all exactly the same).
Extract and you get this :
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/628735Sanstitre.jpg

You can see the arrows --> and <-- meaning you have the end of ep 1, all of ep 2 and the beginning of ep 3.

Select episode 2, extract, and there you go.
It might get trickier if you have damaged files and need to use par files though, I haven't tried that.


Back to topic, I use both.
Less than 100€ a year for a small seedbox and an unlimited usenet subscription. And then you got everything and no worries.

[megabyteme]

That's a cool trick, chakara. May come in handy sometime.

[Rart]

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/628735Sanstitre.jpg[/url]

You can see the arrows --> and <-- meaning you have the end of ep 1, all of ep 2 and the beginning of ep 3.

Select episode 2, extract, and there you go.
It might get trickier if you have damaged files and need to use par files though, I haven't tried that.


That is very useful. Thanks for sharing! I'm definitely going to try this out next time.

[user3240]

4) Top tier trackers are not all that hard to get into. Interview into WCD, get PU, and you can get on any of the common top-tier trackers.


Most people who interview are turned down. One contradiction that I read on Reddit was that you don't need a seedbox and it's easy to get into top trackers. It would be awfully hard to get PU status without a seedbox. When you first get into a tracker you must spend at least a month seeding things you don't want in order to build up a buffer. Once you have say a 1TB buffer you can finally start to download things you want. Then when your buffer goes down you have to repeat the process if you want to remain a member in good standing. With a seedbox you definitely have to do a double download if you want it on your disk.

Torrents are OK for obscure movies and music that will never hit the usenet. For popular movies, TV, games etc., Usenet still shines.

[piercerseth]

Most people who interview are turned down. One contradiction that I read on Reddit was that you don't need a seedbox and it's easy to get into top trackers. It would be awfully hard to get PU status without a seedbox. When you first get into a tracker you must spend at least a month seeding things you don't want in order to build up a buffer. Once you have say a 1TB buffer you can finally start to download things you want. Then when your buffer goes down you have to repeat the process if you want to remain a member in good standing.
:yes: Passed the interview, and the only reason I got anywhere as quickly as I did was by seeding scene releases I was getting from usenet and elsewhere. I also know what the hell I'm doing.

Setting up a seedbox & autograb (correctly) isn't rocket surgery, but it isn't completely easy-peasy either.

[Rart]

. Once you have say a 1TB buffer you can finally start to download things you want.

You need a 1 TB buffer??? What kind of things are you downloading? :blink:

[user3240]

You don't have to buffer up to 1TB, but if you want 1080p, it can add up fast. Collections can take 100MB or more in a hurry. Regardless, you have to build up a buffer with free leech torrents or other popular movies and TV shows you may not really want. If it's CD (Flac) or books, the buffer would be much smaller but you still need to build one up. On some sites you can not become a PU unless you are an uploader.

Edited to add: On private torrent sites that have obscure movies such as Karagarga, Cinemageddon etc, there are plenty of dead torrents. At least that never happens on Usenet if you have a long retention server. Sure, you can ask for a reseed at some of them but you often have to offer some of your buffer as bounty.

[aoshivx]

That Reddit user/ norkamus can't be taken seriously for no reason whatsoever. There is a huge dis-taste for him on the /vpn subreddit. Some users even believe he is a PIA PVN schill, with all his pro- buy/sign up to the service posts. Not to forget him boasting all the time, I have this, I'm a member on xyz private trackers, I use xyz seedboxes, I run xyz bots for my reddit responses.

: @ Rart in regards to your commnet about him getting a decent amount of upvotes, I would not be surprised if he has alternate reddit accounts. I even recall some users stating that they have tagged him, that whenever they see his post = instant downvotes, and probably he has come up with a way to circumvent that.

[piercerseth]

That Reddit user/ norkamus can't be taken seriously for no reason whatsoever. There is a huge dis-taste for him on the /vpn subreddit. Some users even believe he is a PIA PVN schill, with all his pro- buy/sign up to the service posts. Not to forget him boasting all the time, I have this, I'm a member on xyz private trackers, I use xyz seedboxes, I run xyz bots for my reddit responses.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. His irc isn't much better. The bot that echoes filesharing reddits is nice I guess.

[Beck38]

Years ago when I was 'deep' into P2P, I found that most if not all of the 'shared' material was of very low quality, HD recoded into less than SD quality, SD rendered into video slime. Don't even bring up audio, mp3's of such low bitrate and sample rates that AM radio has more fidelity.

So, once again I beat a hasty retreat to the newsgroups. I'm sure there are probably some folks doing high quality 'stuff', and have the infrastructure (high end seed boxes in large scale facilities), but the cost of such is substantial, and because of that, they are few and far between.

And then add all the hoops to get into the 'right' trackers... the amount of smarts it takes to avoid usenet takedowns is minimal brainpower, and one reaches a far larger audience if that is your goal.

[user3240]

And then add all the hoops to get into the 'right' trackers... the amount of smarts it takes to avoid usenet takedowns is minimal brainpower, and one reaches a far larger audience if that is your goal.

We finally agree on something. I suspect the real reason private trackers are popular is because almost anybody can learn how to torrent with minimal effort. I've found that most people have great difficulty understanding Usenet.

[chakara]

Are you sure you agree ?
I'm no native english speaker but it sounds to me like you're saying the opposite ...

add all the hoops to get into the 'right' trackers <> almost anybody can learn how to torrent with minimal effort
the amount of smarts it takes to avoid usenet takedowns is minimal brainpower <> most people have great difficulty understanding Usenet

[Beck38]

We finally agree on something. I suspect the real reason private trackers are popular is because almost anybody can learn how to torrent with minimal effort. I've found that most people have great difficulty understanding Usenet.

My 'learning curve' with either was minimal, probably because I was helping to run usenet servers in the mid80's (several universities, then ran my own in the mid-90's) and was there almost at the dawn of p2p (mid-late 90's). But as piercerseth pointed out, some of the better ones are a bit (or more than a bit) of jumping though hoops to get into.

But it may be a 'run back to mama' regarding usenet. Every time it seems that 'the end is near' I do tend to wonder.

[piercerseth]

add all the hoops to get into the 'right' trackers <> almost anybody can learn how to torrent with minimal effort
the amount of smarts it takes to avoid usenet takedowns is minimal brainpower <> most people have great difficulty understanding Usenet

It's certainly easier to seed content vs packing, paring, obfuscating, and posting to usenet. It shouldn't be and I wish more folks asked questions or took interest in how to up. It's like 100:1 posts sab setups, nzbdrone, newznab versus people inquiring about powerpost, mangler, proxies etc.