Possible New Project

[clocker]

Water cooling has been my ultimate goal since I started working on my own PC and I'm about ready to initialize the first phase.

After suffering along with me on the modification of a Thermaltake Xaser3 case, I'm going to inflict a whole new series of topics upon you.

The Xaser case is fine for what it is, and I've managed to come up with a good aircooled solution for it, but it lacks several features that I've learned that I want in a watercooled case.
Basically, it is simply too full of holes ( stock, not the multitude that I have added :P ) to be silent. Fan noise escapes from the entire enclosure... not really loud of course, these fans are only operating on 5v, but not my definition of silent either.

Then I saw this...
http://www.twistedmods.com/images/sections/reviews3/lianlipc73sl/kit.JPG
a Lian-Li case where silence was the main objective. It appears perfect for my needs.
Then I found these...
http://www.innovatek.de/contentServ/3.0/www.innovatek.de/data/media/752/konvekt1gr.jpg
...passive radiators. No fans=no noise.

So I started thinking and have come up with this plan to try initially...

I think that if I use two of these radiators hooked in series ( one after the other) and a Ehiem pump, there may be enough water in the system that I won't need a reservoir at all. This simplifies the whole arrangement considerably and should it not prove sufficient, a reservoir can always be added later.
As these radiators are intended to be mounted externally, there is no waste heat issue to deal with inside the case.
Furthermore, the pump itself can be mounted external to the case, which leaves only the two connections to the CPU waterblock to potentially cause problems leak-wise.
With the entire CPU heat problem moved out of the case, the remaining heat sources are quite minimal- the HDD and videocard being the two biggest, and they are easily dealt with, so interior fans can be held to the absolute minimum.

Clearly, this is not a setup for ultimate cooling capacity. Standard radiators with high powered fans would be more efficient, but that is not my goal anyway. Silence is. I can visualize how to mount fans to these radiators should the necessity arise anyway, so that possibility is always open. Or maybe even put the radiators in a small refridgerator...
But, that's for later...this is my starting point.

Any comments?

[Virtualbody1234]

Hey clocker, since it's so slow I thought I would crash your topic to ask you for some help. Look for my new topic.

Please. :">

[lynx]

Water blocks for the videocard, chipset and HDD?
Seems a shame to do half a job.

But I suppose these can be added later.

[clocker]

Chipset is feasable, lynx, but my current vid card (Radeon 9000 Pro) doesnt really generate enough heat to justify the added complexity.
I already have a heatpipe cooler installed and am experimenting with a auxiliary fan ( to little effect, so far).
I also have heatpipe cooling on the HDD.

Neither of those components rise more than 2-3C above ambient in normal use.

It's certainly a possibility though, but first I have to establish how well the setup works on the CPU before I add any more thermal load to the system.

[bigdawgfoxx]

I dont know much about water cooling but it seems nice...isnt all the parts of the water cooling supposed to be inside the case though?

[clocker]

Not necessarily, dawg.

Typically that is how it would be done, but all you have done in that case is move the heat from your chip to another part of the case. You still have to evacuate it somehow and usually that means fans. And fans mean noise.
The idea here is to move the heat out of the case altogether and not have it pollute the interior.

[lynx]

Just get a big clanky pump instead. :lol:

[bigdawgfoxx]

oh ok...well your way looks good

[Duffman]

well what case are you using with this new project you gonna buy the dream one?

[clocker]

I'm gonna look into it.

Prices seem to be hard to find on this unit.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Yeah I cant find any prices on that case.

Also, sine you said they pay so much attension to detail...and VB said to drill out those fan cover things that are big and cut down on airflow...did they just miss that or are you supposed to drill them out?

[clocker]

If you look carefully, they have even provided covers, held on with their plastic retainers, in case you don't want to use those openings. In a normal setup, that would be a weird place to have fans anyway, so I can see why they didn't commit you to having to use them.
The extensive use of rubber molding, foam liner and even grommets to mount drives is what I meant by attention to detail.
The aluminum sheet that they use is about 30% thicker than that on my Thermaltake also...

[SciManAl]

hey clocker that looks very nice, those radiaters are fucking heavy so be carefull where you mount them... (lots of metal is how the passive part works, just loads of cold metal=as heavy as an elephant) for silence, i would suggest cooling your PSU with the h20 and then remove the fab from it, or turn it off... then other things, basicly pump the heat out of the case btw very nice choice of case, those things can be very quiet, and with what you have in mind it should be silent... however what you have now is fine, i would suggest that anything in the case should be cooled by either heatpipe, or h20 that way no fans at all equals even quieter...

as far as your pump set up, i would say it looks good, however i would make a little bit of a bleed zone behind the pump to make sure there is always some water behind it, and it will catch the air in the system and not let it get pumped through again... other that that i would have to say you will not get the coolest CPU around(only as cold as room temp) but it should be pretty solid... you are looking at a very nice set up... you already have most of the hot spots cooled, i would target the PSU and CPU and leave the heatpipes alone for now... (the hardrive it fine, the vid might need some h20 if you upgrade...) other than that i say well done clocker you have obviosly done your homework very well!

Any other help with the H20, i will be obliged to help you with! i myself at this point am actually also atempting something like your project, minus i am using heat pipes... everything, no pumps, no electricty, no nothing... all heatpipe cooled froma central condenser... something that i will be posting as soon as i finish school benchmark tests (jesus i hate standerdised tests)

[clocker]

Good luck with your tests AL.

As always, you're enthusiasm refreshes me, while your grammar continues to appall.

How will you make the heatpipes?

[lynx]

The spelling and grammar here appals me too. :rolleyes:

Anyone got any stats on stainless steel?
I suspect it's properties for a case are going to be crap, but I know someone who can do the work if it's worthwhile.

[SciManAl]

hehehehe :P

sry for my slow response and i am even more sory for my grammer issues... however i am somewhat ill and don't give a damn if it sounds good, or looks good as much as the idea gets across...

the heatpipes, are going to be a cutom raditer very much like the one you are going to buy 2 of, except my dad knows a guy at WSU (Wichita Stat University) that will let me use his metal working shop... it should be lots of fun! i have done a little metal working before, but do not have the required elements myself and so it is not commen that i am welding... however back on topic, i plan to use copper and will be making it a lot bigger and make it more chambered then a pipe, so that as the water (and other additives) are flowing throw, they can just hang around untill they cool down... also i plan to keep the entire system one unit, and so that means that i will be haveing pipes here and there, but they will all end up in the same place eventully.. but i am going to use this fact to make it a heatpipe that is more ffective by dropping the pressue in the system, which will make the water boil at lower temps.. I am planning to try to get the boiling point at about 30 degrees cintegrade. that way all componets should stay about room temprature, or a little over... I am hoping that this sytem wil work on the basis that the only water that will be incontact with the heat source is below 30 degrees c, or whatever temp i find suitible during testing, as for construction, i am using a regualar H20 set up, minus the pump and make the radiater bigger and on top of it all... Although i believe that in "heatpipe" world it is called a condenser... The heat exchanger will simply be the reular heatsink, as i figure that one way or another the Air will get up and away... or get cold again and plummet wich is fine with me... but since i will be creating a suction, i will be using the acursed spring stuff that they put through the tubes of H20 systems to keep them from kinking(which really only slows down flowrate), This should keep the tubes from collapsing... i think this experiment has potential for expeansion by possibly hooking a tank of liqaud oxygen to the top of the radiater so that the water etc instantly turn water and more quickly gets back down to the system, if it isn't oo cold(it could be...) then it would make the water colder than room temps, but would evaporate at 30 deg. c (or whatever the temps i choose) so a potentially great system... i mean look at your VGA cooler... and you Harddrive... while not entirely big budget items on the list as for cooling... they are working well, now i want to make the heatpipe bigger and get lots of things hooked up to it... one central system that i will have to make airtight, yet another issue that i will have to work out, which means i should never have leaking problems.. etc... (the air pressure would come back before it leaked so i would know instantly as my CPU temps went up to something like 50 deg. c or so, still within safty limits, so even after decompression, the system would still work... the goal for this is to move the heat outside the case without any fans oor moving parts... (or any electricity), also i am thinking that hookinf peltirs up with this could be good... getting even lower temps for the things that matter like the cpu etc... i am currently still on my design board and have not commited to anything yet, so any constructive critisism is humbly welcomed! :D

[clocker]

Now that is what I call a word block, Al.

Just kidding about the grammar.
I am a snob ( and an English major in a previous life...).

My understanding of heatpipe technology ( at least as applied in the Zalman and Thermaltake stuff) is that they aren't using water at all. There is some sort of chemical in those tubes which has far better rates of fluid to gas conversion.

Or something.

But what the hell, you have nothing to lose by trying, and you've gotta start somewhere, right?

Good luck and let us know how it comes along.
Remember, we can learn from your failures, also.

[SciManAl]

The whole reason for the chemical solutions clocker is to get the lower boiling temps... there are many ways to do this, the cheapist is to put in a chemical that can boil at lower temprature... the other way is to release some of the pressure from the water inside which can even make water boil when it is freezing temps... all about atmosphereic pressure, also the reason you (may) have to compensate for the altitude (assuming you live in the mountains of Colorado...) when cooking food etc... anyway... Thanks for your blessing!!

(I like to write also, however i am much more casual about checking myself when i am on the web...)

hehehehehe :P

[clocker]

Okay, now I see.
I guess...

It is true that water boils at a lower temp up here (Denver is a mile high), somewhere in the 190's, I believe.
We must also make adjustments to the amounts of baking powder, etc.

I'm sure you will enjoy the time spent in the metalshop, it's my favorite playground. I'm trying to find a good sheetmetal shop right now myself...someplace I can weasel my way in and gain access to the big metal brakes.

[SciManAl]

Ohh hehehehe those are phun!!!! i am going to get to play with an old english wheel too!!! i have no doubt in my mind that it has no relevance to the job at hand but who cares!!!

[clocker]

Originally posted by lynx@3 December 2003 - 19:09
The spelling and grammar here appals me too. :rolleyes:

Anyone got any stats on stainless steel?
I suspect it's properties for a case are going to be crap, but I know someone who can do the work if it's worthwhile.
I use stainless extensively in my clockwork and I love it.

Weight would be an issue.
Maybe an aluminum skeleton with stainless panels would be good.

What does your friend do with it?

[abu_has_the_power]

clocker, u job doesn't look cheap. that case there at least 100. and ur radiator and other stuff gonna make another hundred or two. r u sure u got da dough?

[lynx]

Originally posted by clocker+5 December 2003 - 06:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 5 December 2003 - 06:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@3 December 2003 - 19:09
The spelling and grammar here appals me too. :rolleyes:

Anyone got any stats on stainless steel?
I suspect it&#39;s properties for a case are going to be crap,&nbsp; but I know someone who can do the work if it&#39;s worthwhile.
I use stainless extensively in my clockwork and I love it.

Weight would be an issue.
Maybe an aluminum skeleton with stainless panels would be good.

What does your friend do with it? [/b][/quote]
My current case is all steel ATM, so switching to stainless wouldn&#39;t add that much weight if I stuck to the same guage. I was more interested in it&#39;s thermal properties.

My friend has a small stainless steel fabrication company. He&#39;s semi-retired now and his son more or less runs the company. I wouldn&#39;t be able to get access to equipment (hell, I&#39;m lousy at metalwork anyway), but given a good set of drawings his company can make just about anything.

Your post about cooling the back of the motherboard took the wind out of my sails a little. You may recall I was thinking about mounting the hd on the reverse side of the mobo backplane, but if that&#39;s getting hot from the cpu it may not be too good.

Then your comments about having a sliding backplane gave me an idea - why not have two sliding backplanes with a gap between them. The extra backplane would be fitted the opposite way round and have the mounting points for hd&#39;s.

Then drill holes where you want cooling and mount a radial fan to blow air into the gap. This could provide cooling for both the hd&#39;s and the back of the mobo at the same time.

Comments?

[clocker]

It&#39;s a concept, lynx.

No way of knowing without trying it out unfortunately.

I think that skeletonizing (clock term for cutting away all unnecessary metal) the motherboard mounting wall might have a big impact without the need for a fan at all.