How Can They Shut Down K++ Klite Users? Heres How

[Schmiggy_JK23]

I posted this on the klite shutdown thread, but i feel it also needs its own topic.

here we go.

Gentlemen, ladies, we have a problem.

read this, posted here (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8636)


Can Sharman Networks force Kazaa Lite K++ into extinction?
Posted by Dan Bell on 08 December 2003 - 04:55 - Source: P2pnet


There is an interview over at P2p.net with Slyck News Tom Mennecke, that gives us some more information on the recent Sharman and Kazaa Lite K++ conflict. He says that Sharman can and will systematically terminate Kazaa Lite K++. December 6th Slyck was reporting that almost every mirror for Kazaa Lite K++ had been eliminated. They say Sharman went to each ISP of every website that hosted Kazaa Lite K++ and ordered its removal via the DMCA. Kazaa Lite K++ has been replaced with links to eMule, BitTorrent and SoulSeek. We knew that but here is a further development. It would seem that even if the software is removed, since it uses a decentralised network it would still function. Mr. Mennecke has some troubling thoughts about that.


"This is a gradual process," Slyck's Tom Mennecke told p2pnet. "It'll be at least a few weeks before the breakdown is complete."

Back to the Slyck report, "A representative of Sharman Networks spoke to us on the condition of anonymity regarding their current campaign to vanquish Kazaa Lite K++," it says. "Not only has Sharman Networks succeeded in eliminating nearly every major resource of Kazaa Lite K++, they are systematically forcing it off the network. How you ask?

"Recent upgrades to Kazaa clients (2.5 and higher) make them less tolerant with outdated or non official clients such as Kazaa Lite K++. Kazaa Lite is based on a version prior to 2.5, therefore a current supernode will not accept its shares. Although this will cause network headaches in terms of traffic, the client will not be able to participate or download off the main FastTrack network. This will effectively cluster and isolate all modified Kazaa clients from FastTrack.

"Well, won't Kazaa Lite clients simply form their own sub-FastTrack network?

"Sounds nice, but no. Unfortunately, the developers of Kazaa Lite helped Sharman out tremendously by disabling the supernode function. Very few users who run this client are acting as supernodes. A decentralized P2P network with all clients and no supernodes cannot exist. The effects of this extermination is already taking place, as search times and connection times are deteriorating compared to K+ (the legitimate spyware/adware free version of Kazaa.)

"As time progresses, the Kazaa Lite K++ client will become so unusable that its populace will be driven off the network. This latest act from Sharman punctuates a long history of hypocrisy that involves the protection of their own intellectual property rights, yet blatantly ignoring the copyrights of others."


I used the excellent Kazaa Lite for a very long time and enjoyed the lack of spyware and such...until the RIAA came along. Even though I don't use it anymore, I have never uninstalled it and it still sets on my Quick Launch Bar, can't bring myself to remove it. Now there is a battle on two fronts and it saddens me.

I wouldn't think due to the RIAA, that there would be too many folks out there acting as supernodes anyway. They have been publicly targeted for months as candidates for subpoenas. So maybe Sharman can make Kazaa Lite K++ unusable, I don't know, hope not.

Special thanks to P2P.net for bringing this to our attention and also Slyck News for the inside information. Feel free to discuss this issue in our Music Downloads, P2P and Legal Issues Forum.



You can see clearly what we need to do. Eventually the k++ client will be on its own, forced off the 2.5 clients part of the network.

The k++ users have to start acting as supernodes, apparently, in order for the k++ app to continue being functional.

quite the conundrum.

[Cyril]

Sounds to me like we need a few non-US residents becoming supernodes. Mind you, you don't have to be sharing the files to be a supernode anyway so shouldn't make any difference. Nice helpful suggestion they gave us.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

My question is, if/when the development continues, can we get around this so called block of supernode shares, by kmd 2.5? If k++ cant, isnt really beneficiary to continue development?

[camille]

Hopefully Sharman will not succeed. Indeed he's already desperate and some his clients are moving to Klite++.

[Cotton]

Ill be a supernode tomorrow.

Im getting 512/128 ADSL tomorrow, so ill turn on being a supernode.

And im going to be downlaoding a lot of movies and crap as soon as i get adsl, and providing fast dl's (at least faster than now 56k)

I live in australia, so im not going to be harrasted by capitilistic biatch's(Riaa) :)

Ill go out in a blaze of gun fire if i get in shit for sharing, if only i could get a gun :D

[Muse]

"Well, won't Kazaa Lite clients simply form their own sub-FastTrack network?

"Sounds nice, but no. Unfortunately, the developers of Kazaa Lite helped Sharman out tremendously by disabling the supernode function. Very few users who run this client are acting as supernodes. A decentralized P2P network with all clients and no supernodes cannot exist. The effects of this extermination is already taking place, as search times and connection times are deteriorating compared to K+ (the legitimate spyware/adware free version of Kazaa.)


This is where Sharman's theory goes wrong.

Kazaa Lite supernodes do exist and the number of them will grow. Kazaa Lite will form it's own (and better!!) network. Isn't that great?

My theory:
Sharman has shot themselves in the foot with this approach. Kazaa Lite will go on and the number of KaZaA users will shrink.

[Xelotath]

This is where Sharman's theory goes wrong.

Kazaa Lite supernodes do exist and the number of them will grow. Kazaa Lite will form it's own (and better!!) network. Isn't that great?

My theory:
Sharman has shot themselves in the foot with this approach. Kazaa Lite will go on and the number of KaZaA users will shrink.

There is only one problem with that. Don't you think K-lite users would be easily identifiable on the network, and therefore be targeted more aggressively by the RIAA and such?

I hate to say it but K-Lite is becoming to much of a risk to use anymore. Atleast many people will go down fighting instead of giving up. It was good while it lasted, but all good things end at one point or another.

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by Xelotath@8 December 2003 - 16:07
There is only one problem with that. Don't you think K-lite users would be easily identifiable on the network, and therefore be targeted more aggressively by the RIAA and such?


That doesn't even matter, because as long as you're using the privacy patch then they can't get a list of all your shared files.

The RIAA want easy targets, and the majority of "dumb" KMD users will still bear the brunt.

If the kazaa-lite supernodes do exist, then this could be the best thing that's happened for a long-time.

(IF the supernodes exist in big enough numbers :unsure: )

[slick nick]

the only good thing would be you could actually get new movies fast that savvy k-liters get from irc, newsgroups, bittorent, etc. downside is the majority of kazaa users are kmd users so they'll be a sharp decline in music and porn. i don't see kazaa numbers declining either to use k-lite. thousands of us vs millions who don't care about adware/ spyware isn't going to swell our ranks.

[sharedholder]

Sharman is a fuckin delirious liar.If this is really true, then why would Sharman go to such great lengths to seek out and close down all K-Lite download sites, as well as search engines that might direct a surfer to such a download site? So, despite their claim, it looks like Sharman believes that they will be unable to shut out K-lite from the FT network or prevent K-lite from becoming a separate competing network.

[nipseyrussellyo]

Sharedholder has a great point: why would Sharman bother attacking the suppliers of the software if tehy could simply shut down access to its users.

The only reason I can think of is that it might be a PR thing: if they make this big showing, people will know WHY their KL doenst work and might download the real Kazaa.

Anyone have any insight into wheter or not this plan to phase out the KL clients will work?

[chuckv64]

Originally posted by sharedholder@8 December 2003 - 18:09
Sharman is a fuckin delirious liar.If this is really true, then why would Sharman go to such great lengths to seek out and close down all K-Lite download sites, as well as search engines that might direct a surfer to such a download site? So, despite their claim, it looks like Sharman believes that they will be unable to shut out K-lite from the FT network or prevent K-lite from becoming a separate competing network.
I would have to agree.

[slick nick]

Originally posted by sharedholder@8 December 2003 - 19:09
Sharman is a fuckin delirious liar.If this is really true, then why would Sharman go to such great lengths to seek out and close down all K-Lite download sites, as well as search engines that might direct a surfer to such a download site? So, despite their claim, it looks like Sharman believes that they will be unable to shut out K-lite from the FT network or prevent K-lite from becoming a separate competing network.
a. it's a hacked version of their software

b. they are trying to get some legitamacy by getting people to pay for kmd and don't need a version out there that allow people to connect without folks paying. lets say they do start a subsciption only service to use kazaa and pay royalities to the riaa, mpaa, etc if they aren't making efforts to bring down sites that distribute versions that allow people to connect without paying it looks like a half hearted effort.

c. they want it known far and wide use kmd or you can't access ft network. this is the perfect way to show they mean business.

[freeksho]

so let me get this sraight if all the k lite users [or the ones with great connction] act as supernodes then you should still be able to use the f t network and then you would only be sharing with other k lite users correct so far?
i see a pretty big upside to that being there should be a lot less fake and misnamed files on the network as im sure at 80% of those that frequent these forums are true p2pers and would not be such twats as to misname or share beat files
just my 2 cents

[ninjamonkey]

"Kazaa Lite supernodes do exist and the number of them will grow"
why? in order to help this problem?
and how does being a supernode make you an easier target?
and what is K+ they mentioned in the link? is that sharman or a version of klite?

"Don't you think K-lite users would be easily identifiable on the network, and therefore be targeted more aggressively by the RIAA and such? "
why would the riaa care whether or not you have kazaa or kazaa lite?

[Shadowness]

I was just wondering something, if they say that kazaalite will be blocked out, why doesnt someone just code on the new one, and release it on the kazaa network itself. That way you can download kazaalite on kazaa instead of on a site.

Eventually people will begin to destribute the version one way or another.

[--Spam--]

What KMD version is Kazaa Lite K++ based on?

[Dale]

haha, your not thinking strait, as soon as we are on our own network, it will only be Kazaa Lite!!!

if the RIAA gets on the network, they get on using Kazaa Lite K+!!

the way i see it is, the RIAA already been sued for using Kazaa Lite, if they try suing us!... we can sue them back for using Kazaa Lite!! or something like that.

[true_neo]

Look, all of these problems can be solved with 3 easy steps:
- Create a patch that enables us to use KLK++ forever, no matter what (if thats poss)
- Set Supernode enabled by default
- Bundle it with KLK++, and release it as KLK 2.3.0

there. all SN's, and KLK will live on.
As for the hostings, they cant see if we host it if we don't post links to it. Im getting paid hosting soon, and would be willing to have this on that for a limited amount of time (bw issues, Im not rich lmao).
Then we could just post links like h**p or rename the file to eMule.exe (when its really KLK++)

[Kunal]

Originally posted by --Spam--@9 December 2003 - 07:57
What KMD version is Kazaa Lite K++ based on?
2.02

[hitokri]

Time to recode KLite if someone can get a leaked version of KMD 2.6

[Wizzandabe]

I will never use KMD. So if it happens, Im sure they will loose a few more. :D

[downloader2008]

Is this why many K++ users can't find barely any sources anymore?

[Wizard_Mon1]

i reckon we wait and see if people step up and fuction as supernodes
time will tell ;)

[d3v1l]

if the newer version of kazaa isent allowing older versions of kazaa and kazaalite wouldent the older version of kazaa still form a network cause the supernood function is on.

also if the newer version of kazaa isent allowing supernood connections from older version wouldent the newer version be all most nonusable cause of not everyone upgradeing. so they would basicly be forceing there own clients off there network and they would from a there own network and k++ would still work.

Edit

Also k-lite has supernoods enabled the feature is force to be a supernood.

http://www.peerguardian.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2377
Check that out

[goose40]

Originally posted by d3v1l@10 December 2003 - 23:31
if the newer version of kazaa isent allowing older versions of kazaa and kazaalite wouldent the older version of kazaa still form a network cause the supernood function is on.

also if the newer version of kazaa isent allowing supernood connections from older version wouldent the newer version be all most nonusable cause of not everyone upgradeing. so they would basicly be forceing there own clients off there network and they would from a there own network and k++ would still work.


Unfortunatly the KMD software is setup with a planed obsolece, It is set up to die at time of new releases that is how they control thier adware, most updates that I have observed have no positive use to the user only to Sherman so if they do not set it up to die no one would willingly update everytime.

Is there any of the alternitives that accept the dat files from fasttrack and finish them?

[Spock4]

Well... *sigh* I cant belive this... !!

[venom_il]

I don't understand

how would a KMD client know what version / mod of kazaa I'm using?
can't i just send the identifier string the most recent original sends ?

[bigkaz]

I am and I will be a supernode coz there is stiil couple thousands users in Europe!

Greetings from Poland!

userjohndoe ;)



Sue me Sherman!

[niteman74]

Hmmmm. Its December 13th and I still see over 3,000,000 users online, 5,000,000 last night. Damn imagine if someone really could shut down supernodes. I have downloaded new software just out a few weeks ago with no problem. Kazaa lite isn't going away boys and girls. It may have downgraded a notch due to the RIAA, but it isn't gone. I have been busted for Copyright infringement from a website. Nine times out of ten they aren't looking to go to court and spend thousands. They nicely request you stop sharing their stuff. Which I will gladly do since they went to all the trouble to find out I was sharing it. The RIAA busted a few people, so what. Move on. Share until they warn you. They WILL warn you first. You have a better chance on getting struck by lightning than geting caught sharing. If you are scared, then quit sharing. To each his own. I will share and be a supernode until they pry this mouse out of my cold dead fingers.

[Spock4]

Thats the spirit

:gossip:

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Xelotath@8 December 2003 - 12:07

This is where Sharman's theory goes wrong.

Kazaa Lite supernodes do exist and the number of them will grow. Kazaa Lite will form it's own (and better!!) network. Isn't that great?

My theory:
Sharman has shot themselves in the foot with this approach. Kazaa Lite will go on and the number of KaZaA users will shrink.There is only one problem with that. Don't you think K-lite users would be easily identifiable on the network, and therefore be targeted more aggressively by the RIAA and such?

I hate to say it but K-Lite is becoming to much of a risk to use anymore. Atleast many people will go down fighting instead of giving up. It was good while it lasted, but all good things end at one point or another.
KL++ supernodes that are BLOCKING RIAA ips effectively lock RIAA's known ips ENTIRELY off the network. If they can't search (which requires supernodes), they can find nodes. However, RIAA could run their hacked KL++ as supernodes themselves... but if many/most KL++ nodes are set up to block those ips and the KL++ supernodes are too -- they'll be all by their lonesome.

KL++ users are not easily identifiable if they're blocking the listing of their shared files. Doubly so if blocking bad ip addresses. Regular Kazaa users will remain more vulnerable when RIAA changes tactics to go after them because they STILL outnumber us. We may well get ignored because we became too small and too hard a target to bother with.

Regular Kazaa will STILL LEECH off us, we will just not be able to SEARCH their parts of the network and possibly vice-versa. It's like the PL being added all over again. Their win, our loss.

Were we to block PL<8,000 then we wouldn&#39;t have to worry about regular Kazaa though... but that&#39;s not currently possible with the way Random Nut coded KL++. (You COULD block PL<8,000 but only while not PL cheating yourself.)

[cosmic doobie]

Using the Clean KMD the search results are pathetic - think i&#39;m gonna stick with K-Lite until the bitter end (if it comes&#33;) :D

[Norfolk_N_Life]

Just thought I would add my bit.
I have just turned off the &#39;do not function as a supernode&#39; option.
If as many ppl as poss do this then its all gotta help.

Also, surely someone must be able to hack KMD 2.6, and when there is a hacked version just post a hash in these here forums. If I could hack software then I would do it myself, unfortunately I aint that clever.

[cosmic doobie]

Originally posted by Norfolk_N_Life@13 December 2003 - 14:17
Just thought I would add my bit.
I have just turned off the &#39;do not function as a supernode&#39; option.
If as many ppl as poss do this then its all gotta help.

Also, surely someone must be able to hack KMD 2.6, and when there is a hacked version just post a hash in these here forums. If I could hack software then I would do it myself, unfortunately I aint that clever.
:D
Look in the development section - things are happening already

[Shiranai_Baka]

"Well, won&#39;t Kazaa Lite clients simply form their own sub-FastTrack network?

"Sounds nice, but no. Unfortunately, the developers of Kazaa Lite helped Sharman out tremendously by disabling the supernode function

I dont get it.. arent the developers of Klite against these people? or did I miss something?