PDA

View Full Version : If I Download Piracy Stuff Am I Sinning?



Monkeee
12-21-2003, 06:14 PM
if i download games, music, movies and i sinning? :unsure:

internet.news
12-21-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Monkeee@21 December 2003 - 19:14
if i download games, music, movies and i sinning? :unsure:
No, you are just sharing your thoughts & files openly.

And: If you are sinning depends on what you are thinking is a sin...
If you are strong religious person maybe.

But if I do not have the right to charge about other ppl - as they are just humans -
it depends on your understanding of a sin. I can just tell openly what I think about it.

Spider_dude
12-21-2003, 06:15 PM
http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/software%20piracyiswrong.JPG

TheDave
12-21-2003, 06:18 PM
why do you always have blood on your smileys?


oh and
jpol is rapidly becoming useless

i had to put that in :rolleyes:

Spider_dude
12-21-2003, 06:28 PM
change my title to


spidey always has to add blood to the smileys he draws using ms_paint which look utter shite.

please^^^

TheDave
12-21-2003, 06:30 PM
googlism says spider dude is wrong

Lamsey
12-21-2003, 06:31 PM
Thou shalt not steal

3rd gen noob
12-21-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Lamsey@21 December 2003 - 17:31

Thou shalt not steal
depends on the definition of stealing, now, doesn't it?

uNz[i]
12-21-2003, 07:05 PM
Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.


So yes, you are a SINNER :o

Cheese
12-21-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by uNz[i]@21 December 2003 - 18:05
Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.


So yes, you are a SINNER :o
no he's talking about piracy stuff like wooden legs, parrots and jolly rogers...

clocker
12-21-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by uNz[i]@21 December 2003 - 12:05
Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.


So yes, you are a SINNER :o
Well, line one I could buy.
You lost me at line two, though.

All games, music and movies are a sin?

Even Candyland?

hobbes
12-21-2003, 08:02 PM
Shoots and Ladders for Sinners coming in '04.

muchspl2
12-21-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by uNz[i]@21 December 2003 - 14:05
Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.


So yes, you are a SINNER :o
no physical theft of property, only copyright infringement
big difference

WeeMouse
12-21-2003, 08:07 PM
"if the road of sin is the one i'm taking I ain't gonna stray til the clouds go rain on some other sucker's parade"

I may be a sinner in the eyes of some, but i haven't murdered any one and i do not posses Weapons of mass destruction. It's all comparitive, like.

*mouse has had her intellectual thought for the day
:P

bigboab
12-21-2003, 08:49 PM
It's the nearest I get to sinning. :lol:

uNz[i]
12-21-2003, 08:58 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

All property is theft=Quote from the Young ones... as said by Vivian to Rik

Had a feeling my previous post was gonna get jumped on... but guess what?

I was just kidding :P

muchspl2
12-21-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by uNz[i]@21 December 2003 - 15:58
:lol: :lol: :lol:

All property is theft=Quote from the Young ones... as said by Vivian to Rik

Had a feeling my previous post was gonna get jumped on... but guess what?

I was just kidding :P
well..
First of all, the idea that downloading CDs is "theft" is complete BS. It is NOT theft. It is simply a violation of an arbitrary copyright law, nothing more nothing less. Theft requires the "victim" to be deprived of something. If I take your car, I am depriving you of your car. If I copy a song, I haven't deprived you of anything. The only thing you MAY have given up is the opportunity to sell me that song. If I would not have purchased the song in the first place, then you haven't even given up that. From an economics standpoint, copyrights and patents have absolutely NOTHING to do with "property" (the term intellectual property is a very recent one, frankly, the idea that you can own ideas is absurd); rather, copyrights and patents are simply a government granted monopoly to the holder of said copyright or patent.

Furthermore, over the past 100 years, copyright and patent law have been expanded WAY beyond their original intent. The ONLY justification for copyright and patent law is to encourage creativity and innovation. The moment that they begin to not have that effect (or to have the opposite effect, which is happening now), society needs to either repeal, dramatically weaken, or change those laws.

A good unbiased read on the history of "intellectual property" can be found here:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property99/history.html

as far as sinning thats between you and your god

uNz[i]
12-21-2003, 09:34 PM
Hmmm... yeaahh... whatever.

One question:
What part of "I'm kidding" don't you understand?

bujub22
12-21-2003, 09:58 PM
NO cuz aint nothing better than getting something for free :D it's the american way :P

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 03:56 AM
Downloading other peoples copyrighted property is theft.

Those who do it are thieves.

If you're religious, you will rot in hell.

mosaiegh
12-22-2003, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard@22 December 2003 - 03:56
If you're religious, you will rot in hell.
If you're religious you will rot in hell ?

So if youire not you get off all sins scott free ? No

Monkee it is up to you whether you are sinning or not, unfortunately religious texts do not go into details about p2p, it is up to you to decide whether you are commiting a sin or not. Look into yourself, into your belief and make that decision.

muchspl2
12-22-2003, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard@21 December 2003 - 22:56
Downloading other peoples copyrighted property is theft.

Those who do it are thieves.

If you're religious, you will rot in hell.
read much?
ITS NOT THEFT

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 13:24
ITS NOT THEFT
YES IT IS!!

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by mosaiegh@22 December 2003 - 13:15
Monkee it is up to you whether you are sinning or not, unfortunately religious texts do not go into details about p2p, it is up to you to decide whether you are commiting a sin or not. Look into yourself, into your belief and make that decision.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covert thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservent, nor his maidservent, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Rot in hell ..... that's my guess.

Evil Gemini
12-22-2003, 04:57 AM
I say "fuckit"

Monkeee
12-22-2003, 05:21 AM
i need a straight answer is it Sin or not ? :unsure:

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by Monkeee@22 December 2003 - 14:21
i need a straight answer is it Sin or not ? :unsure:
YES

Evil Gemini
12-22-2003, 05:50 AM
So is being gay but people dont seem to care :lol:

titey
12-22-2003, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by Evil Gemini@21 December 2003 - 23:50
So is being gay but people dont seem to care :lol:
It's nice that yer so open about yer lifestyle choices neatt. :ph34r:

Evil Gemini
12-22-2003, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by titey+22 December 2003 - 06:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (titey @ 22 December 2003 - 06:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Gemini@21 December 2003 - 23:50
So is being gay but people dont seem to care&nbsp; :lol:
It&#39;s nice that yer so open about yer lifestyle choices neatt. :ph34r: [/b][/quote]
:lol:

Nah man i didnt say that i was gay. i Just meant that if you are happy to commit one sin and not the other it defeats the purpose of calling it a sin :blink:

You know what i mean ??

titey
12-22-2003, 05:59 AM
:P Just messin wif ya dude.

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by Evil Gemini@22 December 2003 - 14:58
i Just meant that if you are happy to commit one sin and not the other it defeats the purpose of calling it a sin
So if you download files, you should become a poof too? Does that absolve you of all your sins? I can&#39;t follow your logic here.

chalice
12-22-2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard+22 December 2003 - 06:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 22 December 2003 - 06:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Gemini@22 December 2003 - 14:58
i Just meant that if you are happy to commit one sin and not the other it defeats the purpose of calling it a sin
So if you download files, you should become a poof too? Does that absolve you of all your sins? I can&#39;t follow your logic here. [/b][/quote]
It depends on what kind of files you download.

Evil Gemini
12-22-2003, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard+22 December 2003 - 07:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 22 December 2003 - 07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Gemini@22 December 2003 - 14:58
i Just meant that if you are happy to commit one sin and not the other it defeats the purpose of calling it a sin
So if you download files, you should become a poof too? Does that absolve you of all your sins? I can&#39;t follow your logic here. [/b][/quote]
Im just bored, i just said the first thing that popped in my head.

I guess what im saying is i dont like hipocrits.

Im not directing it to anyone, thats just the best way i can explain it and im to hungry to try to think ;)

But like i said before

"fuckit" and do what makes ya happy :rolleyes:

My motto from now on is "fuckit" :D

Like the other day i had some dvd&#39;s overdue so i thought "fuckit"

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Evil Gemini@22 December 2003 - 15:47
My motto from now on is "fuckit" :D

Like the other day i had some dvd&#39;s overdue so i thought "fuckit"
I used to feel like that when I saw a great dane, but a little voice inside said "don&#39;t do it&#33;".

Monkeee
12-22-2003, 06:49 AM
i think i&#39;m going to hell..... :unsure:

chalice
12-22-2003, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Monkeee@22 December 2003 - 06:49
i think i&#39;m going to hell..... :unsure:
Don&#39;t worry. God forgives homosexual monkees. :lol:

junkyardking
12-22-2003, 07:37 AM
God doesnt exsist
Commandments based on god
Breaking commandments -Sins

Pretty much explains it :D B)

Monkeee
12-22-2003, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by chalice+22 December 2003 - 06:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chalice @ 22 December 2003 - 06:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Monkeee@22 December 2003 - 06:49
i think i&#39;m going to hell.....&nbsp; :unsure:
Don&#39;t worry. God forgives homosexual monkees. :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah i should confess about the time we were in the closet, the tub, the jakoozie, the vibrating bed, and the other sick sick times.... :ph34r:

camille
12-22-2003, 08:39 AM
In my country piracy is rampant. So everybody else likes it. Cheap :)

Rip The Jacker
12-22-2003, 08:52 AM
Well shave my legs and call me a sinner. :ph34r:

muchspl2
12-22-2003, 11:29 AM
FatBastard
your reading comprehension seems pretty low or you haven&#39;t seen/used these words before, if you don&#39;t understand a word heres a good site http://www.m-w.com/home.htm please ask me any questions on what you don&#39;t understand, are you just being a troll?



well..
First of all, the idea that downloading CDs is "theft" is complete BS. It is NOT theft. It is simply a violation of an arbitrary copyright law, nothing more nothing less. Theft requires the "victim" to be deprived of something. If I take your car, I am depriving you of your car. If I copy a song, I haven&#39;t deprived you of anything. The only thing you MAY have given up is the opportunity to sell me that song. If I would not have purchased the song in the first place, then you haven&#39;t even given up that. From an economics standpoint, copyrights and patents have absolutely NOTHING to do with "property" (the term intellectual property is a very recent one, frankly, the idea that you can own ideas is absurd); rather, copyrights and patents are simply a government granted monopoly to the holder of said copyright or patent.

Furthermore, over the past 100 years, copyright and patent law have been expanded WAY beyond their original intent. The ONLY justification for copyright and patent law is to encourage creativity and innovation. The moment that they begin to not have that effect (or to have the opposite effect, which is happening now), society needs to either repeal, dramatically weaken, or change those laws.

A good unbiased read on the history of "intellectual property" can be found here:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property99/history.html

as far as sinning thats between you and your god

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 20:29
Take no notice of me FB, I&#39;m just being pedantic.
That&#39;s OK Much, I&#39;m used to you by now.

muchspl2
12-22-2003, 01:15 PM
as I thought, you&#39;re just trolling for argument.
what bothers me is, you put up no reasoning behind your "stance". I clearly explain how copyright "infringement" and theft are too completely different things and yet you think otherwise, enlighten me on the differences, I clearly stated my reasoning, you put up none, its ok if you can&#39;t
I don&#39;t expect any rebuttal, mine as well just tell me to STFU :rolleyes:
otherwise explain yourself if you are serious.

FatBastard
12-22-2003, 01:23 PM
I say downloading copyrighted material is theft, you say it isn&#39;t. You start with nothing, you end up with something you should have paid for, but you didn&#39;t. I also say it&#39;s illegal, do you dispute that too? Or has your pedantry no end?

Alucard1475
12-22-2003, 01:31 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares3.jpg

muchspl2
12-22-2003, 01:34 PM
didn&#39;t say it was legal, it isn&#39;t, but people have too want to vote & change the laws they deem inappropriate or unjust, all I&#39;m saying is it only denies a person the right from selling it to me, so technically its not theft, not how the laws were intended.
as for a sin, between you and your god I don&#39;t believe downloading music can deny you the right in heaven, at least I hope not :/

bujub22
12-22-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by FatBastard+22 December 2003 - 00:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 22 December 2003 - 00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 13:24
ITS NOT THEFT
YES IT IS&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
no it&#39;s not cuz it&#39;s nothing more than man law what does&#39;nt over see gods law :P

Lamsey
12-22-2003, 08:14 PM
Hey, don&#39;t you remember the 11th commandment?


Thou shalt not use Kazaa to download copyrighted material

Monkster
12-22-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Lamsey@22 December 2003 - 20:14
Hey, don&#39;t you remember the 11th commandment?


Thou shalt not use Kazaa to download copyrighted material
hehe, i use bittorent&#33; :P

hobbes
12-22-2003, 08:48 PM
Why are you entitled to movies, music, and games at no expense while those who create them, in hopes of making a living, get no compensation. (That is what you are taking, their potential income).


File sharing is wrong, no matter how you justify it.

If I spend 300 million to create a movie, people should not be allowed to transfer a single copy freely amongst each other and leave me without compensation.

If I am an independent adventure game company who releases a terrific game, why should people be able to play it for free as I file for bankrupcy?

What we are doing is morally and legally wrong, let us drop the pretense. Lie to yourselves if you can, but I cannot.

I find the convenience and variety of files available to be too good to pass up. P2P or any sort of internet distribution is the inevitable future and companies should learn to work with it rather than disrupt it.

Just like Blockbuster is allowed to rent any movie from any studio, similar franchises should be allowed online so that we can continue with the convenience and also reward those who have made the effort to create something enjoyable.

I will gladly switch over to a legit pay service, but at the moment this entity does not exist, and I continue to live in sin.

muchspl2
12-22-2003, 08:55 PM
bullshit
you can get music online for 9.95 for the whole thing are 1.00 each, and soon you can rent full length movies, if not already, so spare me your high horse
don&#39;t buy in to the PSA&#39;s about downloading movies put people out of work, next you&#39;ll say it fund terrorism

hobbes
12-22-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 21:55
bullshit
you can get music online for 9.95 for the whole thing are 1.00 each, and soon you can rent full length movies, if not already, so spare me your high horse
don&#39;t buy in to the PSA&#39;s about downloading movies put people out of work, next you&#39;ll say it fund terrorism
Bullshit is not a counter argument, it is an emotional reaction.


Simply answer the question I posed. Why should you get it free? Why is that not stealing? Very simple, really.

Many independent video game companies have folded for exactly this reason. I encourage people to pay for their video games because they will only be hurting themselves longterm.

We all know that downloading that old song you heard from the 70&#39;s is not going to effect the financial outcome of that band. The real violation is when you exchange files before the creator has had a chance to collect his income (new releases).

High horse, hardly. I am just honest with myself and don&#39;t try to justify away my acts.

Lamsey
12-22-2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 20:04
Many independent video game companies have folded for exactly this reason. I encourage people to pay for their video games because they will only be hurting themselves longterm.
Prime example: Looking Glass Studios, creators of the Thief and System Shock series (some of the best games ever made). Folded.

Snee
12-22-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by clocker+21 December 2003 - 20:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 21 December 2003 - 20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-uNz&#091;i
,21 December 2003 - 12:05] Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.


So yes, you are a SINNER&nbsp; :o
Well, line one I could buy.
You lost me at line two, though.

All games, music and movies are a sin?

Even Candyland? [/b][/quote]
Debbie does Iowa? :&#39;(

Gemby!
12-22-2003, 10:51 PM
yes your a sinner - but aint most of us here sinners anyway :P

Spider_dude
12-22-2003, 10:53 PM
as billy joel says - "i&#39;d rather dance with the sinners than cry with the saints"

Gemby!
12-22-2003, 10:54 PM
but what if you cry with the saints at a good sad movie

thats fun - crying is nice like that

hobbes
12-22-2003, 11:35 PM
In summary, it is both illegal and immoral. You will be roasting in hell, but take heart, all your forum buddies will be rotating on that spit of doom with you.

james_bond_rulez
12-22-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 11:48
Why are you entitled to movies, music, and games at no expense while those who create them, in hopes of making a living, get no compensation. (That is what you are taking, their potential income).


File sharing is wrong, no matter how you justify it.

If I spend 300 million to create a movie, people should not be allowed to transfer a single copy freely amongst each other and leave me without compensation.

If I am an independent adventure game company who releases a terrific game, why should people be able to play it for free as I file for bankrupcy?

What we are doing is morally and legally wrong, let us drop the pretense. Lie to yourselves if you can, but I cannot.

I find the convenience and variety of files available to be too good to pass up. P2P or any sort of internet distribution is the inevitable future and companies should learn to work with it rather than disrupt it.

Just like Blockbuster is allowed to rent any movie from any studio, similar franchises should be allowed online so that we can continue with the convenience and also reward those who have made the effort to create something enjoyable.

I will gladly switch over to a legit pay service, but at the moment this entity does not exist, and I continue to live in sin.
wow look who&#39;s talkin&#39; ... a HYPOCRITE&#33;&#33;

you condamn those who file share to burn in hell but u do it urself


In summary, it is both illegal and immoral. You will be roasting in hell, but take heart, all your forum buddies will be rotating on that spit of doom with you

hobbes that&#39;s the most pathetic statement i&#39;ve seen coming from you. Not only have you disrespected members of this forum but you have dishonored and discredited yourself, what a shame.

yes, file sharing is illegal but the laws are only men made. The laws are only a set of rules that define the proper conduct of human being for being cruel to other human being in a civilized way.

the concept of copyright is really arbitrary. The idea of somebody owning a part of you eg bio companies owning rights to a part of human genome, or production company producing a really lame movie that doesn&#39;t deserve me spending 15 bucks in threater.

The p2p community is all about sharing, whether it be ideas or songs or movies or games or appz or whatever. It&#39;s kind of like the communist community only better. Illegal it may be but that&#39;s what defines us as a group. To deny that fact you deny yourself from this community and everything it stands for.

so fuck off with your hypocritical opinions <_<

hobbes
12-23-2003, 12:23 AM
I fully admitted that what I am doing is wrong, where is the hypocracy.

If Rockstar games takes 2 years to produce Grand Theft Auto- Vice City to sell 1 copy which is disseminated to 3 million users via the internet, they earn a gross of 40 dollars. Why would they ever make another game?

I make it a point to download old music but I have downloaded newer stuff because I like the song, but don&#39;t want the album (my bad). As for video games, I purchase them all from legit outlets because that market is so vulnerable (see Lamsey&#39;s post). At a certain point laws do become abit arbitrary, but when we download stuff which prevents the creator from getting paid for his efforts, we are stealing, and stealing is a sin.

I am not religious, so I do not care about "sinning", but I understand that getting enjoyment from a program, song or video, which deprives the creator from getting his financial due is simple theft.


Point 1: How am I hypocritical?

Point 2: How is this not theft?


edit: removed an incorrect statement

Snee
12-23-2003, 12:30 AM
The way I see it, the fact that I&#39;m downloading doesn&#39;t make a dent in someone&#39;s income, seeing as how I buy all I can afford, and then download the rest. OR, I search everywhere else, and then I download when I can&#39;t find it elsewhere.

I end up having not much money at all at the end of each month, but dammit, my conscience is clear. :D

james_bond_rulez
12-23-2003, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 15:23
I fully admitted that what I am doing is wrong, where is the hypocracy.

If Rockstar games takes 2 years to produce Grand Theft Auto- Vice City to sell 1 copy which is disseminated to 3 million users via the internet, they earn a gross of 40 dollars. Why would they ever make another game?

I make it a point to download old music but I have downloaded newer stuff because I like the song, but don&#39;t want the album (my bad). As for video games, I purchase them all from legit outlets because that market is so vulnerable (see Lamsey&#39;s post). At a certain point laws do become abit arbitrary, but when we download stuff which prevents the creator from getting paid for his efforts, we are stealing, and stealing is a sin.

I am not religious, so I do not care about "sinning", but I understand that getting enjoyment from a program, song or video, which deprives the creator from getting his financial due is simple theft.


Point 1: How am I hypocritical?

Point 2: How is this not theft?


edit: removed an incorrect statement
we as the file sharing group, do not consider file sharing "stealing". We use a better term "sharing", sounds better than stealing but means the same thing.

The very fact that we are even discussion this topic proves we feel what we are doing is wrong. and yes it is illegal.

but as I said this is what file sharing is all about: it&#39;s about sharing (includes original ideas as well as pirated materials). And i dont care if you share "OLD" stuff or "NEW" stuff, it&#39;s all the same. You admit u do it, fine, but dont make it look like you are higher than the rest of us, this is hypocracy.

The fact that game companies are continually to make games means despite all these priacy they are still making money selling the games. if they dont make nuff they wont make games at all. and from what i&#39;ve seen, they are making plenty.

hobbes
12-23-2003, 02:33 AM
Happy Holidays

james_bond_rulez
12-23-2003, 02:59 AM
gee i dont know hobbes just the way to deliver ur words sometime is nuff to wage flames from fellow poster

same advice u gave me a long time ago now you need to relearn again.

it&#39;s ok i&#39;ll support u all the way.

:lol:

I have no problems with you just dont approve some of ur posts and ur views

otherwise it&#39;s all good :lol:

hobbes
12-23-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@23 December 2003 - 03:59
gee i dont know hobbes just the way to deliver ur words sometime is nuff to wage flames from fellow poster

same advice u gave me a long time ago now you need to relearn again.

it&#39;s ok i&#39;ll support u all the way.

:lol:

I have no problems with you just dont approve some of ur posts and ur views

otherwise it&#39;s all good :lol:
Jimmy,

I really respect your opinion. You are rather volatile, but tend to be reasonable as well. I try to be fair, but sometimes tough in how I post.

I am always open to the fact that I may be or appear to be an ass. That is not my intention. Please feel free to PM me about what you think I need to be more aware of.

I consider myself to be your friend, but I will always respect your right to tell me I am being a jackass. Seems that I might be unaware that how I say something may be outweighed by how I say it.

Have a good holiday season.

abu_has_the_power
12-23-2003, 03:12 AM
do u guys watch mad tv? there was a thing in there bout music piracy. god blew up the kid that dled, and his coach who watched boys shower. lol. that was funny