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sAdam
02-19-2003, 02:54 AM
saddam's a problem that's not going to go away on its own. he has been proven dangerous to his own people and to his neighbours, and he is no friend of western style democracy. if not removed from power he'll just pass the reigns to his twisted little monkey of a son. the only people i'm concerned for are the coalition (maybe just american now) soldiers, the civilians targetted by iraqi scuds, and the poor bastard iraqi conscripts. since the first two of the aforementioned groups seem ready to rock, i suggest the third get started on their white flags cuz thats gonna be their only hope.

as an aside, france and germany ought to be kicked out of nato for refusing to come to the aid of turkey, the only muslim country that is a member of the alliance and the only one with anything like a functioning democracy, france and germany should be kissing their asses not telling them to fuck off.

ClubDiggler
02-19-2003, 03:19 AM
I'll have a crosaint and boujulais to that!!!! Also some fois grass while I'm at it.

I hope I spelled all that french stuff correctly, wouldn't wan't some french person with
a superiority complex trying to cerrect my spelling. :D

daveyjones
02-19-2003, 05:11 AM
i think your right , in another time and another place , take out all the poltics and oil , in a far away fairy tale land there was an evil king who oppressed and murdered and tortured his own people and the people of neighboring kindoms , his people were very sad and scared , their lives were lived out in fear , then along came a horde of knights to possibly dethrone the evil king , so should the kinghts save the kingdom and its people who just keep moving on?i just don't like saddam hussie and i dont like how he keeps the people in his country supressed , for that reason and that reason alone i would support war so the people there could be free.

Spindulik
02-19-2003, 05:39 AM
Saddam is like "Dr. Evil", of Austin powers.

Every era in history has one of those.


It is like cancer. Sometimes you just got to cut it out!



----------------
Oh how we so quickly and easily forget, that HITLER had hundreds of thousands of followers. And even a few still today.
----------------

I_DONT_SHARE_PORN
02-19-2003, 05:49 AM
I THINK THE WAR IS RIGHT TOO, LET'S NAPALM THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

The Great Dude
02-19-2003, 06:02 AM
A crazy post right here. :lol: :lol:

jetje
02-19-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 02:54
saddam's a problem that's not going to go away on its own. he has been proven dangerous to his own people and to his neighbours, and he is no friend of western style democracy. if not removed from power he'll just pass the reigns to his twisted little monkey of a son. the only people i'm concerned for are the coalition (maybe just american now) soldiers, the civilians targetted by iraqi scuds, and the poor bastard iraqi conscripts. since the first two of the aforementioned groups seem ready to rock, i suggest the third get started on their white flags cuz thats gonna be their only hope.

as an aside, france and germany ought to be kicked out of nato for refusing to come to the aid of turkey, the only muslim country that is a member of the alliance and the only one with anything like a functioning democracy, france and germany should be kissing their asses not telling them to fuck off.
come to me, i give you a weapon and you can join the fight, real cool post m8.

if you had to be in the war you probably would think different <_<

but hey it&#39;s far away and i can see it on CNN
Man these ain&#39;t games your talkin&#39; about :angry:

Zardoz
02-19-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by jetje@19 February 2003 - 10:21

come to me, i give you a weapon and you can join the fight, real cool post m8.

if you had to be in the war you probably would think different <_<

but hey it&#39;s far away and i can see it on CNN
Man these ain&#39;t games your talkin&#39; about :angry:

All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.

jetje
02-19-2003, 11:09 AM
think my post wasn&#39;t ironic enough zardoz, cause i&#39;m totally agains war :blink:

sAdam
02-19-2003, 11:10 AM
i got news for u guys. out of about half a million troops deployed in the gulf war there were 148 combat deaths and about 30% of those were from friendly fire. assuming the military has become more effective since &#39;91, bein a part of kickin iraq&#39;s ass is gonna be about as dangerous to the average soldier as going to that kwickie mart in the bad part of town (u know which one im talkin about).

Zardoz
02-19-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 11:10
i got news for u guys. out of about half a million troops deployed in the gulf war there were 148 combat deaths and about 30% of those were from friendly fire. assuming the military has become more effective since &#39;91, bein a part of kickin iraq&#39;s ass is gonna be about as dangerous to the average soldier as going to that kwickie mart in the bad part of town (u know which one im talkin about).



And are you going to be one of the dead
Are you going?

It&#39;s people like you sat in their IVORY towers who think 148 allied lives are irrelevant and what about the Iraqi lives
They obviously have no meaning
I bet MY LIFE that you hold your own far more important than any others especially the soldiers you so readily send to death
You disgust me, you cowardly small-minded fool
This time Sadam knows it&#39;s for keeps so there&#39;s nothing to stop him using chemical or bio weapons this time
If you think that there are only going to be 130 allied death then you really are more stupid than my wildest speculations



think my post wasn&#39;t ironic enough zardoz, cause i&#39;m totally agains war
Sorry Jetje, I got in a bit of a rage and the true meaning of your post escaped me.
now I have read it calmly the Irony comes through

Zardoz
02-19-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by I_DONT_SHARE_PORN@19 February 2003 - 05:49
I THINK THE WAR IS RIGHT TOO, LET&#39;S NAPALM THE WHOLE COUNTRY.



Maybe you should use PORN it&#39;ll stop you being so uptight

mrcall1969
02-19-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 03:54
as an aside, france and germany ought to be kicked out of nato for refusing to come to the aid of turkey, the only muslim country that is a member of the alliance and the only one with anything like a functioning democracy, france and germany should be kissing their asses not telling them to fuck off.
Turkey have already stated that they will NOT automatically support any war on Iraq, or indeed allow anyone to use their airbases for an attack on Iraq.

Ynhockey
02-19-2003, 12:36 PM
I do support war in Iraq, although if it starts, I&#39;m going to be one of the people in mortal danger (living in Israel). But so what ? Both Arafat and Hussein are political geniuses and time has proven that they can&#39;t be beaten with words, so a war is one of the few options left to defeat them (but this time the objective has to be to eliminate the Iraqi leadership, because if they don&#39;t, this is going to be just like the gulf war).

@ sAdam:
What do you know about a military ? Judging by your words, you know nothing. I am only going to serve in 2 years, but some of my friends are serving now and I can tell that it&#39;s really difficult (just the training). Imagine how hard an actual tactical operation is - unlike training, in one of these you can&#39;t fail &#39;cause then you die. Besides, I&#39;m sure that the Iraqi army has improved just like the US army, and although all they have is ancient Soviet weapons, they are still a strong opponent and should not be underestimated. I get the impression that all you know about wars comes from games like Red Alert 2. So go play that.

Rat Faced
02-19-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 11:10
i got news for u guys. out of about half a million troops deployed in the gulf war there were 148 combat deaths and about 30% of those were from friendly fire. assuming the military has become more effective since &#39;91, bein a part of kickin iraq&#39;s ass is gonna be about as dangerous to the average soldier as going to that kwickie mart in the bad part of town (u know which one im talkin about).
So.....

the 250,000 Iraqi&#39;s killed dont count as human lives to you?

Sicko...

Unlike some of your compatriots that are willing to debate, although not agree, you seem to want a war for TV entertainment as much as anything else.

Hell, you&#39;ve even upset other pro-war members, never mind the anti-war lobby, so I echo the sentements posted by one of them....


Go back and play your Red Alert2.

As to the Post regarding France/Germany....

Im sure I answered WHY Germany and France cant send troops to Turkey UNTIL Turkey is attacked elswhere.

Germany cannot deploy Troops outside of Germany unless called on by UN or is attacked (or NATO member is attacked)...Its ILLEGAL.....Im sure it was the USA that insisted on this after WWII, so why are you complaining?

France is in the unique position of not being a FULL member of NATO. It comes into NATO in times of war.

NEITHER country said they would not help Turkey if attacked. They will not, however send troops to the Iraqi border prior to them being attacked....as they do not wish to be associated with the US/UK attack on Iraq.

Quite frankly, neither do I......unfortunatly the UK Government is taking part...But NOT IN MY NAME.

Ron
02-19-2003, 05:24 PM
Although I&#39;m not AGAINST a war, I have to say that I do agree with most of what&#39;s been replied here.
The first few posts are sheer provocation. If you took the time to read the posts in the lounge, you would have realized that most people here are totally against this (possible) war.
I don&#39;t mind a difference of opinion ( aka "a fight" :) ) every now and then, but at least try to put your opinion a little bit more nuanced (sp.?) than
"Let&#39;s napalm the whole country".
Let&#39;s not fight, just for the sake of a fight.

daveyjones
02-19-2003, 06:05 PM
i would fight in a war to liberate iraq ,personally i want to see saddam brought to justice to stand trial for his crimes against humanity , some of you went on about the iraq lives lost in the last war , well there is such a thing as surrender , if the enemy choses not to , then so be it . I think that anylives lost in a new war , on either side , would in the long run be worth it if the people of iraq get their freedom , for what good is living if your not free?

hyypia_1571
02-19-2003, 07:27 PM
I think that Bush is a bit to "trigger happy" when it comes to him using his potential powers. He&#39;s a bit fo a control freak with no obligation as to who is going to stop him from attacking Iraq. I can understand France/Germany not wanting to go to war, its America&#39;s problem, they brought it up in the first place.

Its just Blair who is persistent upon humping Bush&#39;s leg and is not taking any notice of public appeal towards anti-war demonstrations.

(p.s. it couldn&#39;t help but notice a BBC advert which showed a tv show showing how Britain decides as to whether to go to war or not. Yet its not Britain who decides, its America.To much weakness showing in our government and its plain to see.)

imported_computerfreak76
02-19-2003, 07:55 PM
well the war is going to happen whether we like it or not. i just hope saddam doesnt launch the nukes and bio weapons he has and if any of you have family over like i do lets hope they all come home in one piece safe and sound.

SuperJude™
02-19-2003, 08:06 PM
The more I read these threads the more I see it is just all idle talk and opinions and nothing will ever get solved on a world level by what is stated at a message board.

I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.

I only say again- I support the people they are going to send over there because they are my countrymen and a few (more than 10 here) of my friends are going overseas or are already there. If they must fight I wish them victory.

I still think most Iraqis would rather live like us than fight us.

-SJ™

Knuckles187
02-19-2003, 08:10 PM
my personal opinions dont matter fcuk all so i wont bother sharing them with you...

but these sort of posts are dumb it just turns into 2 parties throwing facts about death toll&#39;s and machine gun rate of fires&#33;

<.> <.>
^
:..........:

it is stupid you either agree or you dont some person online isnt going to change your views really are they.. so why bother...

jetje
02-19-2003, 08:16 PM
Not agreeing on that Tommygunn aye VanDiem :D , think i read in these debates a lot a didn&#39;t know, from both sides. It didn&#39;t change my mind though. I am even more of what i think is right. But having these debates makes you hear what others think of it, to hear two sides of the story gives you a better chance to form your own opinion. B)

Rat Faced
02-19-2003, 08:47 PM
I dont think anyone will change their minds Tommy, But we might get to understand each others point of view

imported_computerfreak76
02-19-2003, 08:50 PM
also the bottom line is NO ONE here knows for sure the reasoning behind this war. all we know is what we have been told by bush, by whoever.

if we could get inside bush&#39;s head then we could find out the real reason he is so anxious to go to war. but i do think there is more to his reasoning for war than what he has said but thats just the government for you.

and if you think any government discloses everything with the public then your just as naive as the rest of the people.

SuperJude™
02-19-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 February 2003 - 21:50
and if you think any government discloses everything with the public then your just as naive as the rest of the people.
B-I-N-G-O

For all we know our guys are right now fighting small battles in North africa and the far east, fact is Iraq has been in the media so much that I wonder what else is really going on here.

-SJ™

imported_computerfreak76
02-19-2003, 09:39 PM
i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.

i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.

i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.

ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.

no country including the usa is invincible&#33;

sAdam
02-19-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Ynhockey@19 February 2003 - 13:36
I do support war in Iraq, although if it starts, I&#39;m going to be one of the people in mortal danger (living in Israel). But so what ? Both Arafat and Hussein are political geniuses and time has proven that they can&#39;t be beaten with words, so a war is one of the few options left to defeat them (but this time the objective has to be to eliminate the Iraqi leadership, because if they don&#39;t, this is going to be just like the gulf war).



@ sAdam:
What do you know about a military ? Judging by your words, you know nothing.&nbsp; I am only going to serve in 2 years, but some of my friends are serving now and I can tell that it&#39;s really difficult (just the training).&nbsp; Imagine how hard an actual tactical operation is - unlike training, in one of these you can&#39;t fail &#39;cause then you die.&nbsp; Besides, I&#39;m sure that the Iraqi army has improved just like the US army, and although all they have is ancient Soviet weapons, they are still a strong opponent and should not be underestimated.&nbsp; I get the impression that all you know about wars comes from games like Red Alert 2.&nbsp; So go play that.

first of all u retard, if u knew shit about shit, u&#39;d know that the iraqi military is a shadow of its former, 1990, self. secondly, don&#39;t try to make urself sound noble that ur going to serve. u didn&#39;t volunteer. ur an israeli. u have to serve.

next, to all u morons that think i have no regard for human life, read my original post regerding the three groups at risk in this potential conflict. the american army IS a volunteer force of highly motivated people. they are all ready, willing and able to fight a war. the vast majority of the israeli population is in support of war with iraq for whatever reasons. the only people that have no say in the matter are the iraqi soldiers. they are not volunteers, and my biggest fear is that many more of them that would be willing to surrender will die than in &#39;91 because of gps guided munitions which do not require a line of sight.

SuperJude™
02-19-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by sAdam@19 February 2003 - 22:53
first of all u retard, if u knew shit about shit, u&#39;d know that the iraqi military is a shadow of its former, 1990, self. secondly, don&#39;t try to make urself sound noble that ur going to serve. u didn&#39;t volunteer. ur an israeli. u have to serve.


If you are serious about your beliefs I really think you should find a better way to put it if you are trying to get a point across.

Cause I am as Yank as they get, I love this country all that and more, but reading this thread and your responses? Here is what you seem like:

Troglodyte (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame39.html).

Again, if you really believe in what you are saying, that is what you think, I simply find your text hard to sift through and it seems like you just wanna flame people.

-SJ™

Spindulik
02-19-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Zardoz@19 February 2003 - 11:43

All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.
I am from the USA, and the &#036;20,000.00 in federal taxes I paid for last year, ought pay for atleast one missle.
I am almost 40 years old and have a few toddlers. But if if the government needs (draft) me, I am ready NOW&#33;


Let&#39;s see, I paid enough taxes for:
-A nice car or jeep
-a years worth of prison expenses for a criminal
-meals for the troops
-1 month internet access for 1,000 AOL customers
-All of the songs I ever wanted, instead of downloading them for free.
-33-1/3 years of DSL at &#036;50.00 a month
-One concrete driveway
-Cheap windows for my house
-25 computer systems (&#036;800.00 each)
-20,000 gifts from the Dollar Store
-6,666 boxes of Entemen&#39;s doughnuts
-4,000 feet of T1/3 internet cable
-expanded cable-TV for 20years
-238 years of Cricket Cell Phone Service
-1 minute of Bill Gates time (market price)
-8032 BigMac burgers
etc... etc... etc...

maximboy99
02-20-2003, 08:36 AM
I can understand France/Germany not wanting to go to war, its America&#39;s problem, they brought it up in the first place.

Yah, lets just pretend like France and Germany are not part of the UN, and than you make a logical leap in your argument.



i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.

i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.

i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.

ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.

no country including the usa is invincible&#33;

No doubt. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world because everytime the US does that, it bites us back. You could argue our actions will isolate us, but I &#39;m fairly confident a large coalition will come together on this. France and Germany are more likely to find themselves isolated than the US. I really don&#39;t want to have to go into this, but I firmly believe Saddam has WMD and is skirting the UN, and because of this, is a threat to the US and many other countries. Innaction is just as dangerous as action, but its easier to not act.


I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.

I agree that opinions dont change often, but its important to understand that each side has moral and logical reasoning for their positions. It is important to have a dialogue, especially because this forum has so much world perspective. Europeans need to understand Americans; Americans need to understand Europeans (as well as the rest of the world). We are all friends in peace and democracy, and troubling times require dialogue. Sometimes the peaceful ways of our nations are disturbed and there is a need for discourse and action. Secondly, who DOESNT understand this is not TV? I think everyone understands just fine. Blowing off an argument because you dont think they understand it is "real" suggests someone has a psychological problem or are emotionally challenged. I dont think anyone who has found their way onto this forum has that issue, even the people I strongly disagree with. :P


All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.

What a copout.


And are you going to be one of the dead
Are you going?

It&#39;s people like you sat in their IVORY towers who think 148 allied lives are irrelevant and what about the Iraqi lives
They obviously have no meaning
I bet MY LIFE that you hold your own far more important than any others especially the soldiers you so readily send to death
You disgust me, you cowardly small-minded fool
This time Sadam knows it&#39;s for keeps so there&#39;s nothing to stop him using chemical or bio weapons this time
If you think that there are only going to be 130 allied death then you really are more stupid than my wildest speculations

Your way off base here and you offer no solutions or constructive criticism. Would you like to base something on fact or maybe pose some logical arguments?


Turkey have already stated that they will NOT automatically support any war on Iraq, or indeed allow anyone to use their airbases for an attack on Iraq.

Good point, but that changed today when Turkey agreed to allow US to use their bases in return for a large sum of aid (see: money).


the 250,000 Iraqi&#39;s killed dont count as human lives to you?

Sicko...

Unlike some of your compatriots that are willing to debate, although not agree, you seem to want a war for TV entertainment as much as anything else.

Hell, you&#39;ve even upset other pro-war members, never mind the anti-war lobby, so I echo the sentements posted by one of them....


Go back and play your Red Alert2.

As to the Post regarding France/Germany....

Im sure I answered WHY Germany and France cant send troops to Turkey UNTIL Turkey is attacked elswhere.

Germany cannot deploy Troops outside of Germany unless called on by UN or is attacked (or NATO member is attacked)...Its ILLEGAL.....Im sure it was the USA that insisted on this after WWII, so why are you complaining?

France is in the unique position of not being a FULL member of NATO. It comes into NATO in times of war.

NEITHER country said they would not help Turkey if attacked. They will not, however send troops to the Iraqi border prior to them being attacked....as they do not wish to be associated with the US/UK attack on Iraq.

Quite frankly, neither do I......unfortunatly the UK Government is taking part...But NOT IN MY NAME

Rat Faced, I think your missing his point completely and responding emotionally. He is simply pointing out allied military casualties will likely be low. Secondly, thats passing judgement to say he doesn&#39;t care about the 250,000 killed, you cant know how he feels. Thirdly, France was not stopping troops from being placed on the Turkey/Iraq border. France tried to halt purely defensive capabilities which would protect Turkey from possible skud attacks, and France tried to block other non-attacking units like U2 planes.

Such a disregard for the safety of a Nato member just further displays that France is only playing politics. This seriously puts into question France&#39;s motivations for being opposed to this war. Further evidence of this, is the extremely offensive comments Chirac made about the 10 Eastern European countries that have come out in support of the US. France is playing dirty and I am starting to believe their motives are not in world security, but in French and EU political power (through EU unity). This is some serious stuff. If France wants to pretend like it has the moral high ground, it better start acting like a big boy.

Side-note: as for France not participating(specifically on a military level). Their military power is nominal and not needed in Iraq. The only thing "unique" about their policial positioning is they cant have a military position, because they have almost no military to speak of. I do think France should atleast obstain, if not support the war(but they probably wont). I&#39;ve said it before, France is against this war for the wrong reasons. And when its all over, France is going to look very bad.

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by SuperJude™@19 February 2003 - 20:06
The more I read these threads the more I see it is just all idle talk and opinions and nothing will ever get solved on a world level by what is stated at a message board.

I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.

I only say again- I support the people they are going to send over there because they are my countrymen and a few (more than 10 here) of my friends are going overseas or are already there. If they must fight I wish them victory.

I still think most Iraqis would rather live like us than fight us.

-SJ™



How do you Americans manage to be so arrogant so consistently?
You&#39;re self obsession with the American way baffles me
You cannot conceive of any country not secretly dreaming of being like you

RIDICULOUS..........

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 February 2003 - 21:39
i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.

i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.

i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.

ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.

no country including the usa is invincible&#33;



What the hell do you call Sept 11?

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Spindulik+19 February 2003 - 22:17--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 19 February 2003 - 22:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Zardoz@19 February 2003 - 11:43

All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.
I am from the USA, and the &#036;20,000.00 in federal taxes I paid for last year, ought pay for atleast one missle.
I am almost 40 years old and have a few toddlers. But if if the government needs (draft) me, I am ready NOW&#33;


Let&#39;s see, I paid enough taxes for:
-A nice car or jeep
-a years worth of prison expenses for a criminal
-meals for the troops
-1 month internet access for 1,000 AOL customers
-All of the songs I ever wanted, instead of downloading them for free.
-33-1/3 years of DSL at &#036;50.00 a month
-One concrete driveway
-Cheap windows for my house
-25 computer systems (&#036;800.00 each)
-20,000 gifts from the Dollar Store
-6,666 boxes of Entemen&#39;s doughnuts
-4,000 feet of T1/3 internet cable
-expanded cable-TV for 20years
-238 years of Cricket Cell Phone Service
-1 minute of Bill Gates time (market price)
-8032 BigMac burgers
etc... etc... etc... [/b][/quote]



Spindulik
how many civilians will your &#036;20,000 kill?


Oh Maximboy99
I didn&#39;t think the posts in this thread worthy of an intelligent opinion as there were very few on offer.
If you want one I will repost something I wrote a couple of months ago.


Unfortunately history has told the story better than I or anyone else can.
Successive American governments have treated the rest of the planet like one big police state,
With said governments as some sort of self appointed military junta

The holier than thou attitude portrayed by America is belied by certain government sanctioned
actions against any country that America perceives as a threat to its trade.
The excuses that regimes destabilise the political climate of the world are a thinly veiled
attempts to avert attention from America&#39;s own self interest.

Considering that America has consistently funded terrorism in many other countries (Nicaragua for example)
negates any WAR on terrorism America might wage, Unless it takes to task the likes of Ragan and the CIA.
I think it should look deep inside before once more tirading around the planet.

America, look at your leaders and the unaccountable organisations that are supposedly working in your best interests,
While at the same time sending you off to die in a foreign land for something that you don’t completely understand or support

"The Avatar Man"
02-20-2003, 11:38 AM
my two cents are real simple.
I am for disarming Iraq,But I don&#39;t see why it is being rushed.
The day that Hans Blix says we must use force I will be all for war,cause I know there is no other way&#33;

Spindulik
02-20-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Zardoz@20 February 2003 - 12:10

how many civilians will your &#036;20,000 kill?

It&#39;s not my &#036;20,00 anymore. The Gov. took it.

Let&#39;s see. If Sadam uses a hospital as a human barricade, I estimate 12 people&#39;s live will be sacrificed (11 scientists and on janitor). The money used for Iraq hospitals went to Sadams chemical weapons program.

If Sadam uses a grade school as a hide out, I estimate a few thousand live scould be gone.


I hate war. But with war, innocent lives are not spared. That is a shame.

Lets hope that a resolution can be arranged soon. If Sadam is guilty of crimes, then HE should pay&#33; Not innocent lives.

puremindmatters
02-20-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Spindulik@20 February 2003 - 13:12


If Sadam uses a grade school as a hide out, I estimate a few thousand live scould be gone.


I hate war. But with war, innocent lives are not spared. That is a shame.

Lets hope that a resolution can be arranged soon. If Sadam is guilty of crimes, then HE should pay&#33; Not innocent lives.
Ok, I can respect that you wouldn&#39;t mind being drafted when your government needs you. You believe this is a just cause, and are obviously willing to give your life for it.

I would respect Iraquis as well, willing to give their lives for their country, and that is exactly how they will feel if they are attacked by a foreign force.

I wonder if Saddam will be kind enough to let the attacking forces know where to find him, so that they can make sure bombing grade schools will have the desired effect. Bin Laden sure wasn&#39;t so co-operative. Do you think you yourself would find any consolation in the fact that a known criminal was killed when a grade school was bombed if your kids happened to attend it?

Or that the families of 11/9 would feel any better if they knew that there was a worthy target amongst the 3000 victims?
I think the major problem of all this reasoning is that war is something very abstract for all of us being lucky enough not to have been subjected to one.

And of course I agree with your last statement - but saying, well, if the only way to get him is to kill another 250 000 innocent people, that&#39;s just tough luck (if the death toll won&#39;t be higher this time) is a little too abstract for my taste as well - yes, that is the way wars are - and that&#39;s why they should be averted if possible (and you don&#39;t have to be French to think so)

alikan
02-20-2003, 02:19 PM
http://moveon.org/

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 02:49 PM
Just read this article and have a few points to make:

1) How can you slag america off for &#39;sticking their noses in where its not wanted&#39; as many of you have said? America is essentially the worlds policing force, and dont say it should be NATO of UN because ultimately it is america that makes the most impact. Take american troops out of pakistanetc. etc. etc. and one can imagine the chaos that would ensue.

2)Do not continue to allow the Iraqi people to be punished because you are &#39;unhappy&#39; with the amount of power america is allowed to wield. Do not use the iraqi people as pawns in your game for moral superiority - when you allow a monster like saddam hussein to rule for 30 years without so much as protesting against his rule you lose the right to such a claim.

3)Whatever the true intentions of america for starting this war, the reality on the ground is that the majority of Iraqis, inside and outside Iraq, support the invasive actions because it is them that have to live with the realities of continuing as things are.

4)Wars are not fought today by barely trained civilians, they are fought with specialised proffesionals and technology, not by numbers. Thus the numerous points about &#39;putting your money where your mouth is&#39; are arrogant and stupid.

It is fact, and there are plentiful examples, of Iraqis who have fled the country; Iraqis who&#39;s family members have been imprisoned, tortured or have &#39;disappeared&#39; under Hussein&#39;s regime, in fact you will be hard pressed to find a family who hasn&#39;t.

I am not normally pro-war, however in this case, i think it has quite conclusively been shown that Saddam Hussein will not respond to anything other than, at the very least, the real and immediate threat of war. This is a person who has ignored 17 UN resolutions, still has a significant amount of chemicals unaccounted for in his country and is yet to account for them to the UN inspectors and has violated virtually every human right in existence.

Ynhockey
02-20-2003, 03:10 PM
first of all u retard, if u knew shit about shit, u&#39;d know that the iraqi military is a shadow of its former, 1990, self. secondly, don&#39;t try to make urself sound noble that ur going to serve. u didn&#39;t volunteer. ur an israeli. u have to serve.

That was the most idiotic statement I&#39;ve heard in many years. First of all, the Iraqi army HAS improved, no doubt about that, because when arrogant people like you sat and watched TV, they built tanks, airplanes, etc. - the US knows nothing about the Iraqi army because the UN officials were kicked out way long ago. If you know something about WW II then you can estimate the amount of vehicles that Iraq could&#39;ve built in this period of time, even after the UN officials were sent back.

As for the Israeli army, again, idiotic statement. I am a single child, therefore, I don&#39;t have to fight at all. I have to serve 3 years but I can spend those 3 years repairing computers. I am going into a fighting division. Please find out a little more about the Israeli army before you make such statements.

Anyway, so far I&#39;ve seen that you will keep posting stupid statements until the othe side stops paying attention... so I will stop paying attention to you. Say what you want.

imported_computerfreak76
02-20-2003, 03:19 PM
I&#39;m curious as to whether or not any of you guys are from iraq and if so are you going to have to be the ones that fight against the US when the war finally happens?

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Spindulik+20 February 2003 - 12:12--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 20 February 2003 - 12:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Zardoz@20 February 2003 - 12:10

how many civilians will your &#036;20,000 kill?

It&#39;s not my &#036;20,00 anymore. The Gov. took it.

Let&#39;s see. If Sadam uses a hospital as a human barricade, I estimate 12 people&#39;s live will be sacrificed (11 scientists and on janitor). The money used for Iraq hospitals went to Sadams chemical weapons program.

If Sadam uses a grade school as a hide out, I estimate a few thousand live scould be gone.


I hate war. But with war, innocent lives are not spared. That is a shame.

Lets hope that a resolution can be arranged soon. If Sadam is guilty of crimes, then HE should pay&#33; Not innocent lives. [/b][/quote]



It&#39;s amazing how quick you disowned the 20,000 you were so proud of earlier

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 14:49
Just read this article and have a few points to make:

1) How can you slag america off for &#39;sticking their noses in where its not wanted&#39; as many of you have said? America is essentially the worlds policing force, and dont say it should be NATO of UN because ultimately it is america that makes the most impact. Take american troops out of pakistanetc. etc. etc. and one can imagine the chaos that would ensue.

2)Do not continue to allow the Iraqi people to be punished because you are &#39;unhappy&#39; with the amount of power america is allowed to wield. Do not use the iraqi people as pawns in your game for moral superiority - when you allow a monster like saddam hussein to rule for 30 years without so much as protesting against his rule you lose the right to such a claim.

3)Whatever the true intentions of america for starting this war, the reality on the ground is that the majority of Iraqis, inside and outside Iraq, support the invasive actions because it is them that have to live with the realities of continuing as things are.

4)Wars are not fought today by barely trained civilians, they are fought with specialised proffesionals and technology, not by numbers. Thus the numerous points about &#39;putting your money where your mouth is&#39; are arrogant and stupid.

It is fact, and there are plentiful examples, of Iraqis who have fled the country; Iraqis who&#39;s family members have been imprisoned, tortured or have &#39;disappeared&#39; under Hussein&#39;s regime, in fact you will be hard pressed to find a family who hasn&#39;t.

I am not normally pro-war, however in this case, i think it has quite conclusively been shown that Saddam Hussein will not respond to anything other than, at the very least, the real and immediate threat of war. This is a person who has ignored 17 UN resolutions, still has a significant amount of chemicals unaccounted for in his country and is yet to account for them to the UN inspectors and has violated virtually every human right in existence.



You&#39;re calling us arogant

How can you Americans pretend to know what Iraqi&#39;s want, it just helps to purge the guilt when you kill hundreds of thousands of them if you believe "they wanted us to do it"

However you gloss over it America is like a monster out of control and innocent Iraqi&#39;s are going to be Killed and I am surtain they don&#39;t want that

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 04:07 PM
errr...yes, whats ur point. Im not being fucking arrogant, im being realistic. I know iraqi families and i know people who have lost loved ones because of saddam hussein. So do u have a point to make?

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 16:07
errr...yes, whats ur point. Im not being fucking arrogant, im being realistic. I know iraqi families and i know people who have lost loved ones because of saddam hussein. So do u have a point to make?



The point has been made by me more than once in this thread alone
read and you shall see
or are you so bigheaded that you cannot recognise what is firmly in frount of you

jetje
02-20-2003, 04:21 PM
I know iraqi families and i know people who have lost loved ones because of saddam hussein.

Soon maybe you know people who lost loved ones by Bush <_< Let the UN finish their job 1st, and wait for their result. If the observers report that it&#39;s nessesary to interfer the USA probably get a lot more of support (and understanding). B)

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 04:25 PM
Sorry, in the heat of the moment i only read ur first line...and anyway maybe arrogant isnt the most fitting word, but nontheless im sure you can see my point.

Secondly im not american, i merely understand the role that they play in the peace-keeping of this world, which im sure you can as well. They are an out of control monster....striving for democracy and freedom? Not exactly hat id call a monster but hey, everyone&#39;s entitled to their opinion i guess.

Also ive just read the newspaper (daily telegraph) and there is an article written by Ahmad Chalabi (head of the Iraqi National Congress - the democratic opposition to Husseins regime, for the less informed amongst us) saying the iraqi people would support military action to remove Saddam Hussein, but not an external temporary government afterwards, stressing the importance for Iraq to create its own democracy.

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by jetje@20 February 2003 - 16:21

I know iraqi families and i know people who have lost loved ones because of saddam hussein.

Soon maybe you know people who lost loved ones by Bush <_< Let the UN finish their job 1st, and wait for their result. If the observers report that it&#39;s nessesary to interfer the USA probably get a lot more of support (and understanding). B)


I agree completely jetje
America is to much of a bully to wait for proper authority
they will go in guns blazing and Iraqi&#39;s will be MURDERED (That&#39;s how I will consider the deaths)by America and anyone else who rushes in without proper evidence

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 16:25
Sorry, in the heat of the moment i only read ur first line...and anyway maybe arrogant isnt the most fitting word, but nontheless im sure you can see my point.

Secondly im not american, i merely understand the role that they play in the peace-keeping of this world, which im sure you can as well. They are an out of control monster....striving for democracy and freedom? Not exactly hat id call a monster but hey, everyone&#39;s entitled to their opinion i guess.

Also ive just read the newspaper (daily telegraph) and&nbsp; there is an article written by Ahmad Chalabi (head of the Iraqi National Congress - the democratic opposition to Husseins regime, for the less informed amongst us) saying the iraqi people would support military action to remove Saddam Hussein, but not an external temporary government afterwards, stressing the importance for Iraq to create its own democracy.



Since when is democracy served by the imposition of American friendly governments
and who says these countries want America&#39;s version of democracy

America are not the police force of the planet they are the junta that imposes it&#39;s will on
any country that wont OBEY them

not democracy but Veiled DICTATORSHIP

This comment is not specifically directed at the Iraqi problem

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 04:37 PM
did u not read the last paraqraph of my last post, or did your narrow mind just choose to ignore it because it went against your flawed, paranoid views?

Zardoz
02-20-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 16:37
did u not read the last paraqraph of my last post, or did your narrow mind just choose to ignore it because it went against your flawed, paranoid views?



I read it and if you insist they strive for peace then I think you&#39;re wrong

they want to impose American friendly governments reguardless of the cost, moral perspective or willingness of the people involved. and I was not just talking solely about Iraq they have overthrown dozens of democratic governments in history
Hardly as democratic as you contend.

I&#39;d rather be paranoid than blind to the true nature of American forign policy

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 04:53 PM
This has nothing to do with america, this is to do with the democratic faction of the iraqi people asking the world community for help in removing a genocidal, reppresive tyrrany in the form of Saddams Ba&#39;athist regime.

UKMan
02-20-2003, 04:55 PM
Listen to all this crap Sherlock. Doing what politicians have been doing for years - talk talk talk&#33;&#33;&#33;

Here are my views:
Anyone have a good file to share?
Anyone have a good proggy they would like to talk about?
How can we make this forum better folks?
Have you visited the KLchat recently?
Any more news about the"verifieds"?

Oh right, this is the "Lounge":
Anyone been to a good party recently?
What beer do you drink?
How old are you?
What clubs do you hang out in?
Do you prefer blondes?


I can think of many other topics - but i guess you all wanna talk about war and death and killing and how right or wrong it is. At the other end of your P2P contact is a real live living person of flesh and blood, not some kind of cyber warrior who you can kill in one second and then get the cheat to bring him back alve again only to kill again&#33; The bad guys - huh - makes you think whos really bad listening to all this garbage&#33;

At least someone is trying to talk these idiots out of a war instead of just retaliating in the name of "The Mother Land"&#33; I hope when i die i can look my fellow souls in the eyes and say sorry :(

Peace (the most ignored word on this planet)
UKMan

insanebassman
02-20-2003, 04:59 PM
I agree with the war.
Not because the Prez. sez... He is a dickhead. I agree that Saddam should be made to treat his people in the fashion his own religion dictates. You want to quote the Qa&#39;Ran, then follow it&#39;s true teachings. The prophet was not all about war and tyranny. It is the same as all these Jesus freaks here justifying shit in the name of thier god. They are punished and delt with. Why not the talking monkey in Iraq?

Unfortunatley, morality and humanity are not the issues most prevailant in this war. They are the reason I agree with the war. Leaders should not fuck with the people who work for the country... Sadam is not living up to his responsibility as a leader, and that is bad enough. That is not enough to get rid of him. He is, on the other hand commiting and supporting atrocities. This is not acceptable by any one. There are just some situations that need force. This is one of tem. Unfortunately, once commited, we are all supporting attrocities of war. So, those on our side who die, are the currency we pay for the act of getting rid of Iraq&#39;s chief monkey boy.

I do not agree with war. I do not think baby-Bush should be the one handling it. It looks like a family vendetta instead of an effort to get rid of an asshole. I hate to think there are going to be deaths in Iraq. The alternatives are no better than war. Therefore war is the answer. Diplomacy has not worked, inspectors are easily avoided and sanctions are a joke, as they only hurt the people of Iraq. (See Cuba)

Other choices? Any choice in which a fanatical egotist bent on death and Jihad is left in power is a bad choice. Here, we can vote him out next year, there, they need help... so I support a war I am opposed to... Lovely

-=M3th0d=-
02-20-2003, 05:04 PM
Well said insanebassman, i agree, and UKman, this is an important issue of our generation and will go down in history so i think it should be discussed. Senior members and board gods are always saying how this forum is more than a P2P forum and the loungeis the place to discuss non-related kazaa stuff

Rat Faced
02-25-2003, 09:36 PM
kevin13579

Much as i disagree with your politics, I agree with your sentiment that this is something that should be discussed...here in the lounge.

We have members from all over the world here...we are not going to change anything, or change each others minds....but if we can understand where they other side is coming from, the discussion has achieved something.

People cant help getting emotional on the subject of war...

UKMan
02-25-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 18:04
Well said insanebassman, i agree, and UKman, this is an important issue of our generation and will go down in history so i think it should be discussed. Senior members and board gods are always saying how this forum is more than a P2P forum and the loungeis the place to discuss non-related kazaa stuff
Hiya Kevin,
of course its an important issue, but reading carefully through most of these threads gives me the shivers&#33;
Of course we are all free to talk about whatever and i welcome it - but i still feel that politics dosnt have the answer. I hope you can guess my own views on the IRAQ crisis - i wont quote them here because it just creates more crap feedback (i am against the war, thats enough) - my point being in my post above that:
Stop the talking - no more politicians on this board please, they have caused enough problems&#33; If you talk about a problem long enough, it gets so frustratingly difficult to solve, that we all end up shooting each other. Cant we just STOP and learn to live with each other for the very short 70+ years we all live here?

Peace bro - i mean that
UKMan

PS: Isnt it great to be back again ?

ClubDiggler
02-25-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Zardoz+19 February 2003 - 11:43--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zardoz @ 19 February 2003 - 11:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jetje@19 February 2003 - 10:21

come to me, i give you a weapon and you can join the fight, real cool post m8.

if you had to be in the war you probably would think different <_<

but hey it&#39;s far away and i can see it on CNN
Man these ain&#39;t games your talkin&#39; about :angry:

All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is. [/b][/quote]
For all those people out there saying "I don&#39;t see you out there fighting."
I served in the military (USA) and I have a Jetfighter pilot brother too. Having said
all that, lets go and take care of business. Freedom for people of Iraq and out with
one crazy fucker (Saddam). Forget the other reasons. You can&#39;t always see your problems
dissapear by burying your head in the sand all the time. The USA did not become the great
nation that is is by doing that&#33; Peace thereafter....

SuperJude™
02-25-2003, 11:06 PM
I can&#39;t wait for the America bashing to end, really.

Funny how people arrogantly accuse us of being arrogant.

Listen- people have opposing views.

It is too easy to look at one view and attack it. If you read something and do not agree then attack that view as "wrong" is that not in itself doing the exact thing you claim the other is doing?

That comment is aimed at the one person in particular in this thread who seems to be baiting us Americans under the guise of being "right" about everything.

Just your opinion bro and stop disrespecting and judging all of us here.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up.

-SJ™

ClubDiggler
02-25-2003, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by SuperJude™@26 February 2003 - 00:06
I can&#39;t wait for the America bashing to end, really.

Funny how people arrogantly accuse us of being arrogant.

Listen- people have opposing views.

It is too easy to look at one view and attack it. If you read something and do not agree then attack that view as "wrong" is that not in itself doing the exact thing you claim the other is doing?

That comment is aimed at the one person in particular in this thread who seems to be baiting us Americans under the guise of being "right" about everything.

Just your opinion bro and stop disrespecting and judging all of us here.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up.

-SJ™
Well, this is what happens when you are on top&#33;&#33;&#33; someone will always try
and bring you down. It does not matter if you are right or wrong&#33;&#33;&#33;

ClubDiggler
02-25-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by maximboy99@20 February 2003 - 09:36

I can understand France/Germany not wanting to go to war, its America&#39;s problem, they brought it up in the first place.

Yah, lets just pretend like France and Germany are not part of the UN, and than you make a logical leap in your argument.



i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit.

i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.

i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.

ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.

no country including the usa is invincible&#33;

No doubt. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world because everytime the US does that, it bites us back. You could argue our actions will isolate us, but I &#39;m fairly confident a large coalition will come together on this. France and Germany are more likely to find themselves isolated than the US. I really don&#39;t want to have to go into this, but I firmly believe Saddam has WMD and is skirting the UN, and because of this, is a threat to the US and many other countries. Innaction is just as dangerous as action, but its easier to not act.


I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.

I agree that opinions dont change often, but its important to understand that each side has moral and logical reasoning for their positions. It is important to have a dialogue, especially because this forum has so much world perspective. Europeans need to understand Americans; Americans need to understand Europeans (as well as the rest of the world). We are all friends in peace and democracy, and troubling times require dialogue. Sometimes the peaceful ways of our nations are disturbed and there is a need for discourse and action. Secondly, who DOESNT understand this is not TV? I think everyone understands just fine. Blowing off an argument because you dont think they understand it is "real" suggests someone has a psychological problem or are emotionally challenged. I dont think anyone who has found their way onto this forum has that issue, even the people I strongly disagree with. :P


All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.

What a copout.


And are you going to be one of the dead
Are you going?

It&#39;s people like you sat in their IVORY towers who think 148 allied lives are irrelevant and what about the Iraqi lives
They obviously have no meaning
I bet MY LIFE that you hold your own far more important than any others especially the soldiers you so readily send to death
You disgust me, you cowardly small-minded fool
This time Sadam knows it&#39;s for keeps so there&#39;s nothing to stop him using chemical or bio weapons this time
If you think that there are only going to be 130 allied death then you really are more stupid than my wildest speculations

Your way off base here and you offer no solutions or constructive criticism. Would you like to base something on fact or maybe pose some logical arguments?


Turkey have already stated that they will NOT automatically support any war on Iraq, or indeed allow anyone to use their airbases for an attack on Iraq.

Good point, but that changed today when Turkey agreed to allow US to use their bases in return for a large sum of aid (see: money).


the 250,000 Iraqi&#39;s killed dont count as human lives to you?

Sicko...

Unlike some of your compatriots that are willing to debate, although not agree, you seem to want a war for TV entertainment as much as anything else.

Hell, you&#39;ve even upset other pro-war members, never mind the anti-war lobby, so I echo the sentements posted by one of them....


Go back and play your Red Alert2.

As to the Post regarding France/Germany....

Im sure I answered WHY Germany and France cant send troops to Turkey UNTIL Turkey is attacked elswhere.

Germany cannot deploy Troops outside of Germany unless called on by UN or is attacked (or NATO member is attacked)...Its ILLEGAL.....Im sure it was the USA that insisted on this after WWII, so why are you complaining?

France is in the unique position of not being a FULL member of NATO. It comes into NATO in times of war.

NEITHER country said they would not help Turkey if attacked. They will not, however send troops to the Iraqi border prior to them being attacked....as they do not wish to be associated with the US/UK attack on Iraq.

Quite frankly, neither do I......unfortunatly the UK Government is taking part...But NOT IN MY NAME

Rat Faced, I think your missing his point completely and responding emotionally. He is simply pointing out allied military casualties will likely be low. Secondly, thats passing judgement to say he doesn&#39;t care about the 250,000 killed, you cant know how he feels. Thirdly, France was not stopping troops from being placed on the Turkey/Iraq border. France tried to halt purely defensive capabilities which would protect Turkey from possible skud attacks, and France tried to block other non-attacking units like U2 planes.

Such a disregard for the safety of a Nato member just further displays that France is only playing politics. This seriously puts into question France&#39;s motivations for being opposed to this war. Further evidence of this, is the extremely offensive comments Chirac made about the 10 Eastern European countries that have come out in support of the US. France is playing dirty and I am starting to believe their motives are not in world security, but in French and EU political power (through EU unity). This is some serious stuff. If France wants to pretend like it has the moral high ground, it better start acting like a big boy.

Side-note: as for France not participating(specifically on a military level). Their military power is nominal and not needed in Iraq. The only thing "unique" about their policial positioning is they cant have a military position, because they have almost no military to speak of. I do think France should atleast obstain, if not support the war(but they probably wont). I&#39;ve said it before, France is against this war for the wrong reasons. And when its all over, France is going to look very bad.
You speak the truth&#33;&#33;&#33; And for all those people crying about
"How come USA has to be the one to handle these situations"

Well; who else&#33;&#33;&#33; Perhaps the French. Oh I think that would conflict
with their Iraqi oil deals. How dare they tell the smaller eastern european
nations to shut up when voicing their opinions. I agree with you when all this is all
over they will look real bad unless they wise up quickly&#33; By the way how about Chiracs&#39;
nomination for a Nobel Prize....What a joke&#33;&#33;&#33;

Also some of you out there would think differently about all this if you
lived in Iraq and you couldn&#39;t even voice your opinion by posting anything
here&#33; If you did you&#39;ll fear your ass would be chopped off. So for those people
out there. Enjoy your freedom of speech. Some people would like to have it too.
At least someone is willing to give it to them&#33;&#33;&#33; Peace

puremindmatters
02-26-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by UKMan+25 February 2003 - 22:51--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (UKMan @ 25 February 2003 - 22:51)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--kevin13579@20 February 2003 - 18:04
Well said insanebassman, i agree, and UKman, this is an important issue of our generation and will go down in history so i think it should be discussed. Senior members and board gods are always saying how this forum is more than a P2P forum and the loungeis the place to discuss non-related kazaa stuff
Hiya Kevin,
of course its an important issue, but reading carefully through most of these threads gives me the shivers&#33;
Of course we are all free to talk about whatever and i welcome it - but i still feel that politics dosnt have the answer. I hope you can guess my own views on the IRAQ crisis - i wont quote them here because it just creates more crap feedback (i am against the war, thats enough) - my point being in my post above that:
Stop the talking - no more politicians on this board please, they have caused enough problems&#33; If you talk about a problem long enough, it gets so frustratingly difficult to solve, that we all end up shooting each other. Cant we just STOP and learn to live with each other for the very short 70+ years we all live here?

Peace bro - i mean that
UKMan

PS: Isnt it great to be back again ? [/b][/quote]
I couldn&#39;t agree more - I think we have exchanged our opinions and our reasoning behind them more than enough.
I don&#39;t think any of our arguments become stronger or more valid if we start shouting them at each other or re-iterate them another 50 times.

Suffice it to say, there are no "American", "French", "English", "German" views on this topic, since there is a diversity of opinion in each of those countries. I think it is wrong to generalize for the sake of expressing one&#39;s discomfort with other peoples opinions more easily.

And about the Nobel Price nomination: I think there are people putting a lot of thought into whom they deem worthy of that honour, who are surely more qualified than us - and I don&#39;t want to discourage the gentleman who thinks this is a joke, but judging from his arguments so far, I cannot see him being one of the future candidates.

Edit: typo

al_birkett
02-26-2003, 11:53 AM
if we dont take saddam out now he will pose a bigger threat later....

MagicNakor
02-26-2003, 12:53 PM
Not necessarily. He&#39;s almost seventy years old now. His two sons are pretty young, however.

evilbagpuss
02-26-2003, 01:37 PM
Has anyone given any thought to what happens after we get rid of Saddam?

Bush never mentions it and neither does Blair.

This is the situation. In Iraq you have 3 main groups. The Sunnis, the shi&#39;ites (spelling?) and the kurds. They all hate each other and have done for generations. Are we just going to go in there install a democratic government and then they all live happily ever after? I think not.

Are we going to go into every country that has a dictatorship and get rid of them too? I think not, especially if it&#39;s a pro-US dictatorship.

The USA has a long history of supporting Dictators . General Pinochet&#39;s coup in Chile which toppled a democratically elected government was supported by the CIA. This led to thousands of Chileans "disappearing". imho any true American patriot would be part of the "Not in our Name" movement., not waving the flag supporting war in a country they probably cant locate on the map.

Also, if the Western world is so morally superior, how come we trade with China? Their human rights record is disgusting yet they are now close allies.

Whatever this war is about it has nothing to do with morality, the well being of innocent people or the safety of the USA. Colin Powells "evidence" was plagiarised from a graduates paper on the subject. Thats the best evidence the most advanced military in the world can come up with??? hmm.....

On a final note people should also bear in mind that if the UK/USA do go to war without a 2nd UN resolution they will be breaking International law. The worlds (corrupt) police force will then be nothing but a vigilante.

100%
02-26-2003, 02:04 PM
http://www.loesje.org/archive/febser03/febser01.gif

sAdam
02-28-2003, 07:29 AM
rumor is that its on for late march, any1 hear different?

zardoz-

America, look at your leaders and the unaccountable organisations that are supposedly working in your best interests,
While at the same time sending you off to die in a foreign land for something that you don’t completely understand or support

i&#39;m interested to know where you are from. you have so many things about america fundamentally wrong that you should not be speaking about the issue at all. talking about americans being "sent off" to fight is ludicrous. what part of volunteer do you not understand?

ynhockey -

the Iraqi army HAS improved, no doubt about that, because when arrogant people like you sat and watched TV, they built tanks, airplanes, etc. - the US knows nothing about the Iraqi army because the UN officials were kicked out way long ago. If you know something about WW II then you can estimate the amount of vehicles that Iraq could&#39;ve built in this period of time, even after the UN officials were sent back.

As for the Israeli army, again, idiotic statement. I am a single child, therefore, I don&#39;t have to fight at all. I have to serve 3 years but I can spend those 3 years repairing computers. I am going into a fighting division. Please find out a little more about the Israeli army before you make such statements.



"The Iraqi military is considerably smaller than the force that opposed coalition troops in the Gulf War. The Iraqi army had 70 divisions in 1991, but only 23 today. Its elite Republican Guard is half the 12 divisions it was in 1991.

"Not only do they have fewer divisions, but the divisions tend to be more hollow than they were in 1991, because … they lost a lot of equipment in 1991," the official said. Trucks, in particular, are in critically short supply, making it difficult for Iraqi forces to move equipment, ammunition and personnel." - defenselink.mil


does that sound like a stronger iraqi army? also iraq, to the best of my knowledge does not manufacture military aircraft or complete tanks. and to say that the u.s. knows nothing about the iraqi army for lack of u.n. inspectors just further illustrates your lack of understanding.

furthermore, as to my knowledge of the israeli army, considering many of my family members have served in it i suppose it could be better, but you did not explicitly say that you were joining a combat unit in your first post. besides you will never fight iraq. israel will never, in the near future, be part of a coalition that includes muslim nations. the only people you may fight will be palestinians. if you are handier with an m-4 or galil than you are with your limited wit you may kill a terrorist or two and make the world a better place, but judging from your general ignorance and lack of will to correct it, i estimate that the aforementioned will be the greatest contribution that you could possibly hope to make.

as for myself i am canadian and i would like to apologize for the fence sitting my government is doing, it seems that they are finally beginning to commit, but the delay is inexcusable.

I_DONT_SHARE_PORN
02-28-2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by ClubDiggler+25 February 2003 - 17:47--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ClubDiggler @ 25 February 2003 - 17:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--maximboy99@20 February 2003 - 09:36

I can understand France/Germany not wanting to go to war, its America&#39;s problem, they brought it up in the first place.

Yah, lets just pretend like France and Germany are not part of the UN, and than you make a logical leap in your argument.



i do believe something needs to be done about saddam hussein but why does the USA have to be the main force behind that? see if the usa isnt careful one day they are going to step on the wrong toes and be in deep shit. <<I_QUIT_READING_HERE>>

i know that the usa can take just about any country one on one but.....if you have a few countries gang up on the usa then theres a problem.

i live in the united states was born in the united states. i believe in freedom but i do not believe that the united states needs to be sticking their nose in every little conflict going on in the world.

ever heard the saying you stick your hand in the bees nest trying to get honey too many times youll get stung. thats whats going to happen to the US eventually if they keep on going the way they are.

no country including the usa is invincible&#33;

No doubt. We cannot isolate ourselves from the world because everytime the US does that, it bites us back. You could argue our actions will isolate us, but I &#39;m fairly confident a large coalition will come together on this. France and Germany are more likely to find themselves isolated than the US. I really don&#39;t want to have to go into this, but I firmly believe Saddam has WMD and is skirting the UN, and because of this, is a threat to the US and many other countries. Innaction is just as dangerous as action, but its easier to not act.


I may just sign off on this subject forever more. Things I say get misinterpreted, war sucks cause dead people IRL is not like the t.v. or a video game or a movie, it is very real.

I agree that opinions dont change often, but its important to understand that each side has moral and logical reasoning for their positions. It is important to have a dialogue, especially because this forum has so much world perspective. Europeans need to understand Americans; Americans need to understand Europeans (as well as the rest of the world). We are all friends in peace and democracy, and troubling times require dialogue. Sometimes the peaceful ways of our nations are disturbed and there is a need for discourse and action. Secondly, who DOESNT understand this is not TV? I think everyone understands just fine. Blowing off an argument because you dont think they understand it is "real" suggests someone has a psychological problem or are emotionally challenged. I dont think anyone who has found their way onto this forum has that issue, even the people I strongly disagree with. :P


All of you war supporters
I hear no mention of you going to fight
Where are you from?

I hope you&#39;re going to sign up or are you just blowing it out of your arse.

I hate armchair warmongers who are very happy to send others to their death

If you believe what you say, Put your life where your mouth is.

What a copout.


And are you going to be one of the dead
Are you going?

It&#39;s people like you sat in their IVORY towers who think 148 allied lives are irrelevant and what about the Iraqi lives
They obviously have no meaning
I bet MY LIFE that you hold your own far more important than any others especially the soldiers you so readily send to death
You disgust me, you cowardly small-minded fool
This time Sadam knows it&#39;s for keeps so there&#39;s nothing to stop him using chemical or bio weapons this time
If you think that there are only going to be 130 allied death then you really are more stupid than my wildest speculations

Your way off base here and you offer no solutions or constructive criticism. Would you like to base something on fact or maybe pose some logical arguments?


Turkey have already stated that they will NOT automatically support any war on Iraq, or indeed allow anyone to use their airbases for an attack on Iraq.

Good point, but that changed today when Turkey agreed to allow US to use their bases in return for a large sum of aid (see: money).


the 250,000 Iraqi&#39;s killed dont count as human lives to you?

Sicko...

Unlike some of your compatriots that are willing to debate, although not agree, you seem to want a war for TV entertainment as much as anything else.

Hell, you&#39;ve even upset other pro-war members, never mind the anti-war lobby, so I echo the sentements posted by one of them....


Go back and play your Red Alert2.

As to the Post regarding France/Germany....

Im sure I answered WHY Germany and France cant send troops to Turkey UNTIL Turkey is attacked elswhere.

Germany cannot deploy Troops outside of Germany unless called on by UN or is attacked (or NATO member is attacked)...Its ILLEGAL.....Im sure it was the USA that insisted on this after WWII, so why are you complaining?

France is in the unique position of not being a FULL member of NATO. It comes into NATO in times of war.

NEITHER country said they would not help Turkey if attacked. They will not, however send troops to the Iraqi border prior to them being attacked....as they do not wish to be associated with the US/UK attack on Iraq.

Quite frankly, neither do I......unfortunatly the UK Government is taking part...But NOT IN MY NAME

Rat Faced, I think your missing his point completely and responding emotionally. He is simply pointing out allied military casualties will likely be low. Secondly, thats passing judgement to say he doesn&#39;t care about the 250,000 killed, you cant know how he feels. Thirdly, France was not stopping troops from being placed on the Turkey/Iraq border. France tried to halt purely defensive capabilities which would protect Turkey from possible skud attacks, and France tried to block other non-attacking units like U2 planes.

Such a disregard for the safety of a Nato member just further displays that France is only playing politics. This seriously puts into question France&#39;s motivations for being opposed to this war. Further evidence of this, is the extremely offensive comments Chirac made about the 10 Eastern European countries that have come out in support of the US. France is playing dirty and I am starting to believe their motives are not in world security, but in French and EU political power (through EU unity). This is some serious stuff. If France wants to pretend like it has the moral high ground, it better start acting like a big boy.

Side-note: as for France not participating(specifically on a military level). Their military power is nominal and not needed in Iraq. The only thing "unique" about their policial positioning is they cant have a military position, because they have almost no military to speak of. I do think France should atleast obstain, if not support the war(but they probably wont). I&#39;ve said it before, France is against this war for the wrong reasons. And when its all over, France is going to look very bad.
You speak the truth&#33;&#33;&#33; And for all those people crying about
"How come USA has to be the one to handle these situations"

Well; who else&#33;&#33;&#33; Perhaps the French. Oh I think that would conflict
with their Iraqi oil deals. How dare they tell the smaller eastern european
nations to shut up when voicing their opinions. I agree with you when all this is all
over they will look real bad unless they wise up quickly&#33; By the way how about Chiracs&#39;
nomination for a Nobel Prize....What a joke&#33;&#33;&#33;

Also some of you out there would think differently about all this if you
lived in Iraq and you couldn&#39;t even voice your opinion by posting anything
here&#33; If you did you&#39;ll fear your ass would be chopped off. So for those people
out there. Enjoy your freedom of speech. Some people would like to have it too.
At least someone is willing to give it to them&#33;&#33;&#33; Peace [/b][/quote]
:unsure:

sAdam
02-28-2003, 08:08 AM
good summary by maximboy99 and clubdiggler.

Zardoz
03-09-2003, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by SuperJude™@25 February 2003 - 23:06
I can&#39;t wait for the America bashing to end, really.

Funny how people arrogantly accuse us of being arrogant.

Listen- people have opposing views.

It is too easy to look at one view and attack it. If you read something and do not agree then attack that view as "wrong" is that not in itself doing the exact thing you claim the other is doing?

That comment is aimed at the one person in particular in this thread who seems to be baiting us Americans under the guise of being "right" about everything.

Just your opinion bro and stop disrespecting and judging all of us here.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you dress it up.

-SJ™

I didn&#39;t say you were wrong in expressing your opinion - I said america is arrogant in its triggerhappy warmongering

Zardoz
03-11-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by sAdam@28 February 2003 - 07:29
rumor is that its on for late march, any1 hear different?

zardoz-

America, look at your leaders and the unaccountable organisations that are supposedly working in your best interests,
While at the same time sending you off to die in a foreign land for something that you don’t completely understand or support

i&#39;m interested to know where you are from. you have so many things about america fundamentally wrong that you should not be speaking about the issue at all. talking about americans being "sent off" to fight is ludicrous. what part of volunteer do you not understand?




I didn&#39;t realise the military in you country had a choice whether or not to obey orders

DataMore
03-11-2003, 05:16 PM
Who the h3ll keeps bumping this thread to the top? :blink:
Can&#39;t you people see that discussing about the war doesn&#39;t solve absolutely ANYTHING.

:D I think you people like flaming each other, is that it? :D
Damn, now I&#39;ve bumped this thing to the top, too&#33; :P

Zardoz
03-15-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by DataMore@11 March 2003 - 17:16
Who the h3ll keeps bumping this thread to the top? :blink:
Can&#39;t you people see that discussing about the war doesn&#39;t solve absolutely ANYTHING.

:D I think you people like flaming each other, is that it? :D
Damn, now I&#39;ve bumped this thing to the top, too&#33; :P

You American? All contrary opinion is treated as treason.
DataMore How dare you try to stifle Honest opinion especially when you have nothing to contribute

DataMore
03-15-2003, 10:54 PM
You American?
Just check my profile.
Really, it&#39;s not that hard. Just click on my member name. ;)

All contrary opinion is treated as treason.
:blink: Treason to what?&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:
Did I become a secret agent while I was sleeping?&#33; :blink:

DataMore How dare you try to stifle Honest opinion especially when you have nothing to contribute
Because I use common sense, and it tells me that discussing on the Internet is like talking to a brick wall... ;)

Zardoz
03-18-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by DataMore@15 March 2003 - 22:54

You American?
Just check my profile.
Really, it&#39;s not that hard. Just click on my member name. ;)

All contrary opinion is treated as treason.
:blink: Treason to what?&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:
Did I become a secret agent while I was sleeping?&#33; :blink:

DataMore How dare you try to stifle Honest opinion especially when you have nothing to contribute
Because I use common sense, and it tells me that discussing on the Internet is like talking to a brick wall... ;)


1, Why? Am I supposed to bore myself with your banality. Sorry to overestimate you, I felt sure you would recognise a rhetorical question. let me explain you are as opionated and patronising as any American, you might be an emigree,a military serviceman, an ambassador, A family member of a twin towers victim or just some random Idiot.

2, &#39;Treason&#39; is Bush&#39;s own word not mine.

3, The only "BRICK WALL&#39;S" around here are those who hate individual ideas, I define individual in this instance as: Anything that gets in the way of American Warmongering, or Someone who isn&#39;t too blind, stupid or brainwashed by Bushes propaganda to understand any contrary opinion. It must be frustrating when what you call "Common Sense" is destroyed so easily by rational argument whenever you open your mouth.” It isn&#39;t me that’s wrong, it&#39;s everyone else"

So I conclude DataMore is as capable of his own ideas as a Brick Wall.

j2k4
03-21-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Zardoz+18 March 2003 - 11:27--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zardoz @ 18 March 2003 - 11:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--DataMore@15 March 2003 - 22:54

You American?
Just check my profile.
Really, it&#39;s not that hard. Just click on my member name. ;)

All contrary opinion is treated as treason.
:blink: Treason to what?&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:
Did I become a secret agent while I was sleeping?&#33; :blink:

DataMore How dare you try to stifle Honest opinion especially when you have nothing to contribute
Because I use common sense, and it tells me that discussing on the Internet is like talking to a brick wall... ;)


1, Why? Am I supposed to bore myself with your banality. Sorry to overestimate you, I felt sure you would recognise a rhetorical question. let me explain you are as opionated and patronising as any American, you might be an emigree,a military serviceman, an ambassador, A family member of a twin towers victim or just some random Idiot.

2, &#39;Treason&#39; is Bush&#39;s own word not mine.

3, The only "BRICK WALL&#39;S" around here are those who hate individual ideas, I define individual in this instance as: Anything that gets in the way of American Warmongering, or Someone who isn&#39;t too blind, stupid or brainwashed by Bushes propaganda to understand any contrary opinion. It must be frustrating when what you call "Common Sense" is destroyed so easily by rational argument whenever you open your mouth.” It isn&#39;t me that’s wrong, it&#39;s everyone else"

So I conclude DataMore is as capable of his own ideas as a Brick Wall. [/b][/quote]
Okay-
Since the rest of us have been pronounced "banal"(The rest of us defined as those who don&#39;t agree with Zardoz, AND anyone else), I suggest we assume some comfortable position of recline or repose, grab something to drink and/or eat, and turn this thread entirely over to him. He can entertain us for a while.......

soopaman
03-21-2003, 09:46 PM
Lisening to Zardoz go on an Anti-war, Anti-American rant would be kind of enjoyable. His entirely one-sided views are making me and my mates laugh a lot&#33;&#33; But I find most of his rhetoric about as enjoyable as a film starring Marlon Wayans, Martin Lawrence, Rob Schneider, Mario Van Peebles and Jim Carrey, as in I&#39;d rather ennucleate myself than see any more of his brand of shite on the message board. But it is creating a response which is what Zardoz is all about. Why fuel his fire??

Where are you from Zardoz? I can&#39;t be arsed to look.

leecheskicked
03-22-2003, 01:55 AM
personally I found all of the posts fascinating, I agree none of them stand any chance of truely changing anyones opinion, but they help to show that there are extremists for each point of view.

I think I fall into the "I&#39;d rather not have any wars but sometimes there&#39;s no choice" camp. be honest has anyone in these posts actually suggested any alternative to war that has a realistic chance of success. I am giving them credit for not wanting the current status quo in Iraq to continue, at least I hope they don&#39;t&#33;

The mention of Saddam&#39;s sons is a chilling thought, do&#39;s the world really need another North Korea?

As for Americans being arrogant, well they are a powerfull country, at present one of the most powerfull, though I&#39;d advise them against starting an ass kicking contest with China&#33; But they are not the first super power and i&#39;m sure they wont be the last, all things change and I&#39;m sure the ceasars thought their world was enternal too, so they shouldn&#39;t be judged too harshly. i&#39;m sorry if that sounds patronising, it&#39;s not meant to be a certain unconcious arrogance is to be expected from the strong.

As for America being the worlds police force, I think it was kennedy who said something along the lines of, if not us who else. Unfortunately it is not going to be the UN, a nice post war fantasy the reality of which is a mess of corrupt back scratching tin pot dictators with votes for sale

As for the whole Chirac/french politics/iraqui oil concessions, well that&#39;s the way of the world, yes there should be a better way but lets start with hopefully a better iraq for the iraqui people, unlike Iraq, France IS a democracy and they get the goverment they deserve, they voted it in.

j2k4
03-22-2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by soopaman@21 March 2003 - 22:46

Where are you from Zardoz? I can&#39;t be arsed to look.
Zardoz=U.K.

Zardoz
03-22-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by leecheskicked@22 March 2003 - 01:55
personally I found all of the posts fascinating, I agree none of them stand any chance of truely changing anyones opinion, but they help to show that there are extremists for each point of view.

I think I fall into the "I&#39;d rather not have any wars but sometimes there&#39;s no choice" camp. be honest has anyone in these posts actually suggested any alternative to war that has a realistic chance of success. I am giving them credit for not wanting the current status quo in Iraq to continue, at least I hope they don&#39;t&#33;

The mention of Saddam&#39;s sons is a chilling thought, do&#39;s the world really need another North Korea?

As for Americans being arrogant, well they are a powerfull country, at present one of the most powerfull, though I&#39;d advise them against starting an ass kicking contest with China&#33; But they are not the first super power and i&#39;m sure they wont be the last, all things change and I&#39;m sure the ceasars thought their world was enternal too, so they shouldn&#39;t be judged too harshly. i&#39;m sorry if that sounds patronising, it&#39;s not meant to be a certain unconcious arrogance is to be expected from the strong.

As for America being the worlds police force, I think it was kennedy who said something along the lines of, if not us who else. Unfortunately it is not going to be the UN, a nice post war fantasy the reality of which is a mess of corrupt back scratching tin pot dictators with votes for sale

As for the whole Chirac/french politics/iraqui oil concessions, well that&#39;s the way of the world, yes there should be a better way but lets start with hopefully a better iraq for the iraqui people, unlike Iraq, France IS a democracy and they get the goverment they deserve, they voted it in.



Thank you leecheskicked the first truly realistic independent opinion, also thank you for an understanding of the real world imo.

I don&#39;t completely agree with everthing you have got to say, but at least contrary opinion has got my point. This is an important subject and intelligent argument needs to be promoted and if I have instigated that then I am satisfied.

Zardoz
03-24-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by soopaman@21 March 2003 - 21:46
Lisening to Zardoz go on an Anti-war, Anti-American rant would be kind of enjoyable. His entirely one-sided views are making me and my mates laugh a lot&#33;&#33; But I find most of his rhetoric about as enjoyable as a film starring Marlon Wayans, Martin Lawrence, Rob Schneider, Mario Van Peebles and Jim Carrey, as in I&#39;d rather ennucleate myself than see any more of his brand of shite on the message board. But it is creating a response which is what Zardoz is all about. Why fuel his fire??

Where are you from Zardoz? I can&#39;t be arsed to look.



50% of the United Kingdom is hardly irrelivant.

Zardoz
03-24-2003, 02:48 PM
LOOKS LIKE I HAVE VICTORY.

I have reduced the bigots to nothing less than a tirade of abuse with no intelligent comment.
I cannot think of a better definition of success.

All these threads are one abusive comment after another
I&#39;m getting very bored with this.

I WILL NOT RESPOND FURTHER UNLESS YOU CAN FIND SOMEBODY WHO WILL WRITE SOMETHING INTELLIGENT FOR YOU.
DON&#39;T HOLD YOUR BREATH FOLKS.

j2k4
03-24-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Zardoz@24 March 2003 - 15:48
LOOKS LIKE I HAVE VICTORY.

I have reduced the bigots to nothing less than a tirade of abuse with no intelligent comment.
I cannot think of a better definition of success.

All these threads are one abusive comment after another
I&#39;m getting very bored with this.

I WILL NOT RESPOND FURTHER UNLESS YOU CAN FIND SOMEBODY WHO WILL WRITE SOMETHING INTELLIGENT FOR YOU.
DON&#39;T HOLD YOUR BREATH FOLKS.
Is this all of them, Zardoz?

You still need lotion for that rash.