Any Chemists Here? Know One?please Come On In!

[SciManAl]

Hello,


Some good news for the problem on AMD over clocking and how to get rid of the heat... OK as I stated at an earlier date (sometime last year :frusty: ) I have started developing a silent Heat pipe cooling system that will cool all components in the computer so that there is no longer a need for fans at all... Now after all this time I am very close, at this point I only need too change liquids to make it more stable. Up to this point I have successfully tested a heat pipe system that uses no fans etc, and generates no noise. Its big flaw however was that the method of which a heat pipe works is that the hot water evaporates takes the heat with it, and dumps it off elsewhere... a very efficient method on paper, it has been hard to use effectively due to a lack of liquids with a boiling temperature that is optimal... (optimal being a variable that is different for every set up :frusty: ) now the problem now that I have given some background is this, Before I have been using water in a decompressed atmosphere, causing the boiling point to lower this also does give the system some inherent difficulties which might be ok if one was never to unhook a hose ever... (the seals are that bad and every time one unhooks a hose they get looser) and so I have come to a crossroads, either use water, which has been having problems with part II of this experiment (described later) or choose to change to a chemical alternative that has a boiling point of about 20-30 degrees centigrade, will not freeze (or can be blended with things that can't) and can hold some heat.

Part II of the problem titled: playing with liquid nitrogen can be a health hazard...

Okay I have this wonderful system now with a chemical alternative that can evaporate when it gets "hot" and a nice flow, now something has to cool down all this vapor coming up the tubes... this is where my buddy liquid nitrogen comes in. I took a block of copper, (the machine shops mill can only handle copper or aluminum, it is not heavy duty enough... but then I have no complaints with copper) and machined some tube paths inside, then took stainless steel tubing (to help counteract the effects of liquid nitrogen. and fitted them together with a rubber seal to cover the gap between the blocks (much like the piece between the top part of an engine block and the bottom part, mainly to keep the real hard cold inside... make the cold have to migrate to the outside... ) this block was capped of with a pressure valve and to the bottom I hooked about 20 ram heat sinks that would add surface to the block... at this point I have made an incredibly cold (-20 centigrade) block of metal that stays cold always and made that the top of the tank/condensing chamber and that would be what would take 30 max centigrade liquids and turn them freezing in seconds... (The water would in test runs out of computer freeze... so I added a bit of antifreeze... it wasn't optimal, but it worked...) this was a dream come true, completely silent... extreme cooling... in the computer runs came out with temps as low as 3-10 degrees centigrade with over clock... (Idle and load) very nice overall... not bad looking... any need for fans...

Now I still have a problem, I need to get the max out of this system... I need to get a better liquid to put in the pipes. I have hit Google but haven’t found anything... I was hoping for a really good chemist was lying around... I would also like a somewhat more personal response than the WebPages give, although they are always helpful so send the links if you find them. Umm well I think that is it... I would include links but it isn’t that glamorous, just the results... it is completely metal construction help together with bolts and rubber grommets, with the exception of some tubing... but to give it any measurement at all would be hard... it cools the following components:
CPU
PSU
Harddrive
Northbridge
Grapghics card
And last but defiantly least!!
Ram :01:

hehehehehehehe :P


Okay well I have my success, the thing still weighs too much for you LAN game players... it weighs in at about 20 pounds no joke... :frusty: one heavy bitch...

Okay then let the responses come in thanks guys!! Inspiration is easy too find in the place thanks!!
Wow I bet that is the best thing I have ever written on this forum before; I dare you to find a misspelled word…

[Duffman]

can't help with the chemicals but i would very much like to see this contraption or mabe invention

[SciManAl]

hehe i might have to get a photoshute together... yes i think it does fall into the invention catagory?? who else thinks so??

[Duffman]

if it works, you&#39;ll have to get a patent theres some shady charactors on this forum <_<

[SciManAl]

if it works, you&#39;ll have to get a patent theres some shady charactors on this forum

true all described is PATENT PENDING&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:

hehehehe :P

btw does anyone know how that proccess works?? i may try to get this thing patented i think i really could...

[DWk]

dude if it&#39;s good.... you&#39;ll get rich :o haha

yea i would call it invention....IF you pull the trick...since i&#39;ve heard of at least 3 ppl else doing pretty much the same...yet falling in almost the same problem...

gl man :)

btw i dont think the chemistry i learned in high school would give you any aid at all :rolleyes: :D

[SciManAl]

btw i dont think the chemistry i learned in high school would give you any aid at all&nbsp;

LOL don&#39;t worrie middle school hasn&#39;t helped me either&#33;&#33;??? :lol: (yes for all i am not above the age of 15 :lol: ) lol does that affect patents??&#33;? age and all?? hmm... about the whether it works issue... i have a working PrOTOTYPE, it works very well and all. but it requires someone to be there to adjust it, and maintain a constant suction... where as a commercial one would have to be self sustained (that and the fact that wate has freezing issues... even though the coneact is brief... it gets cold...

[clocker]

SciMan,
I don&#39;t know what fluid may be more effective, but are you using a wick like Zalman does? (http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1323&page=2)

[DWk]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 20:01

btw i dont think the chemistry i learned in high school would give you any aid at all&nbsp;

LOL don&#39;t worrie middle school hasn&#39;t helped me either&#33;&#33;??? :lol: (yes for all i am not above the age of 15 :lol: ) lol does that affect patents??&#33;? age and all?? hmm... about the whether it works issue... i have a working PrOTOTYPE, it works very well and all. but it requires someone to be there to adjust it, and maintain a constant suction... where as a commercial one would have to be self sustained (that and the fact that wate has freezing issues... even though the coneact is brief... it gets cold...
patents hmmm.....good one....unless you name is MicroZoft i dont think it should be a problem :o

[SciManAl]

wow holy shit guys that may work&#33;&#33;&#33; i don&#39;t use a "wick" WOW i might try that now&#33;&#33; THANKS CLOCKER&#33;&#33;&#33; i would almost kiss you but then i remeber that you are a man lol :x hehehehehe :P this shpuld solve the problems let me work it out some... on paper, then a prototype...

[3rd gen noob]

what about a mixture of water and anti freeze (propylene glycol)?

[SciManAl]

that is what i use now.. the problem has always been how to make it evaporate but then also stay liquid when supjeck to freezing temps&#33;&#33;

[DWk]

Originally posted by 3rd gen noob@5 January 2004 - 20:06
what about a mixture of water and anti freeze (propylene glycol)?
yea u might throw in there some brake fluid, and some liquid window cleaner, eh? ;)

gl man...and if it works....plz let me know i would like to buy one :o :)

[SciManAl]

patents hmmm.....good one....unless you name is MicroZoft i dont think it should be a problem&nbsp;

explain??? i don&#39;t understand...?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; my idea was created on my end at least through my own thoughyts they are bound to be similer if there is only a few answers to the problem... i think it is different enough and based on cooling the enitire computer using liqaud nitrogen... that is radicly different from zalmans air cooled heatpipes

[DWk]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 20:10

patents hmmm.....good one....unless you name is MicroZoft i dont think it should be a problem

explain??? i don&#39;t understand...?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; my idea was created on my end at least through my own thoughyts they are bound to be similer if there is only a few answers to the problem... i think it is different enough and based on cooling the enitire computer using liqaud nitrogen... that is radicly different from zalmans air cooled heatpipes
i was talking about the name....nevermind hehe... i have had a headache for about 3 days and i lost my voice...i dont think its goin back soon and coming back soon....

go for it man... gl :)

[SciManAl]

gl man...and if it works....plz let me know i would like to buy one&nbsp;
this is the reaction i expect most to have.. very nice qaulities to the system... and of corse it wil probably be handmade by me... so good qaulity the same hands and qaulity that build and renew my computer everyday... now a name lol... anyway i think i should be back ina a shop somewhere by tommorrow...

[SciManAl]

well guys i am off to modding if my calculations are right (god i know i sound like a nerd lol) then this WILL work i think i can even leave the pressue moniter off... this will be awsome... seeyou guys tommorrow

[DWk]

as i said....gl :)


in no-time you wont have to do them urself ;) you&#39;ll have an entire factory working on those.... and the competitors (cough thermaltake) will be doing this:

:frusty:

:D

[neevakee]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 20:57

if it works, you&#39;ll have to get a patent theres some shady charactors on this forum

true all described is PATENT PENDING&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:

hehehehe :P

btw does anyone know how that proccess works?? i may try to get this thing patented i think i really could...
a patent pending is a temporary patent. It reserves you that idea for one year. A patent pending cost a lot less then a real patnet. If you are seriou it will cost anywhere form &#036;5000 on up and that price is if you do the majority of the paper work. You would need a patent attourney too. So if you are serious contact one and talk to him or her. If it really works then you might be on to something.

[SciManAl]

damn that is expensive... grrr... i might have to take out a loan... hmm... at least i might be able to brake even... ecomend anyone for a patent atourny?? or places to look??

[neevakee]

look in the yellow pages under attorney or patent attoreny

[SciManAl]

thanks i also came to a lightbulb, can i not with a working product get a patent pending and get investors...??? that would work wouldn&#39;t it? and save my wallet... (that stil means i need some significant investment...)

[SciManAl]

also is there way to dockument that i have the idea.. so that if it comes down to a who thought of it first that i can have proof??

[clocker]

Forget the patent attorney for now AL.
What you need first is a patent search to see if there is already a patent that covers your concept.
If not, then you can explore the idea with an attorney, but it is VERY expensive and time consuming.
You need to file a temporary app in several different countries so your idea doesn&#39;t get pirated before you can receive a real patent.
You will need several thousand dollars just to file the necessary applications, which require very specific drawings and a model.
My father and I have 4 patents on welding equipment so I have first hand experience with the process.
Chances are you will never see a penny. :(

Good luck.

[neevakee]

the patent is your best bet but be careful with getting funding. Do you remebr the disposable cell which was suppose to hit the market well read this Story (http://www.techtv.com/inventthis/inventors/story/0,24330,3585289,00.html)
so be careful also this board might count as doumentation. Print what you wrote out and try to find a program that will print the time on it and it is a program that you cant alter so it can hold legal scrutiny. MS word date proably wont work.

[Spicker]

WHOA im in the making of future :) this thread might get FAMOUS and be posted aLL over the WORLD :o :o :o

i feel so special&#33; im the making of history or is it future SAME THING&#33;

go for it :smilie4:

i hope it gets patented so this thread gets famous...

and one more thing can we *cough cough* I cough** work in ur factory or office or w/e? :lol: :ph34r: :ph34r: B)

[SciManAl]

lol


WHOA im in the making of future&nbsp; this thread might get FAMOUS and be posted aLL over the WORLD&nbsp; &nbsp;

it very well could be... i am getting my prototype ready for full rqnge testing.. i think it could sopark investors eyes to see 5 blowtorches blowing on hot plates and to see a probe measure 10 degrees centigrade or less... thanks for your support... i am currently looking into a no risk talk with an atourny that is also an engineer who can check for these things... but hanks guys you have helped soooooooooo much&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Duffman]

hmm, im thinking free coolers to the first 2 people that replied to this and clocker, nice encouraging advice... lol, but i did see a comercial yesterday that asked me if i had any ideas for new invetions, they said they send me a free kit to get my patent going, ill write down the number next time i see it

[neevakee]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 21:47
lol


WHOA im in the making of future this thread might get FAMOUS and be posted aLL over the WORLD

it very well could be... i am getting my prototype ready for full rqnge testing.. i think it could sopark investors eyes to see 5 blowtorches blowing on hot plates and to see a probe measure 10 degrees centigrade or less... thanks for your support... i am currently looking into a no risk talk with an atourny that is also an engineer who can check for these things... but hanks guys you have helped soooooooooo much&#33;&#33;&#33;
just make sure the attorney is a good one if it has real potential you dont want to go cheap and get screwed.

[SciManAl]

hmm, im thinking free coolers to the first 2 people that replied to this and clocker, nice encouraging advice... lol, but i did see a comercial yesterday that asked me if i had any ideas for new invetions, they said they send me a free kit to get my patent going, ill write down the number next time i see it

that is what i am using&#33;&#33; they offer no risk consultation with patent autournies... i am currently prepairing several essays to state the purpose who it works etc... i will try to get them dated with a program.. or at the very least get some signitures with dates on them (or what program has such a unchangeable date??

[Duffman]

how about a good ol fashion notary with witnesses like how they sign morgages and stuff

[neevakee]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 21:50

hmm, im thinking free coolers to the first 2 people that replied to this and clocker, nice encouraging advice... lol, but i did see a comercial yesterday that asked me if i had any ideas for new invetions, they said they send me a free kit to get my patent going, ill write down the number next time i see it

that is what i am using&#33;&#33; they offer no risk consultation with patent autournies... i am currently prepairing several essays to state the purpose who it works etc... i will try to get them dated with a program.. or at the very least get some signitures with dates on them (or what program has such a unchangeable date??
well this may sound silly but find a place with a pay sytem that use a time stamp and ask for them to stamp it. Or it you work with one do that.

[Spicker]

do i get a free cooler? :ph34r: :ph34r: :unsure:

[Duffman]

i was thinking, if this thing really works you could set up paypal, start with investors scrape togethor enoguh for a patent pending then goto some company&#39;s looking for a sponser or a company willing to throw 10grand at you for a cut of the profit it this gets big, but i wouldn&#39;t talk to a big company about this idea without a patent, i kinda rember a movie where bill gates stole the idea for a windows type computer from that other dude.

[SciManAl]

wow ok i got a local chemist in my plow... he will help me rough out some details, but wow this is actually gonna work wow



i was thinking, if this thing really works you could set up paypal, start with investors scrape togethor enoguh for a patent pending then goto some company&#39;s looking for a sponser or a company willing to throw 10grand at you for a cut of the profit it this gets big, but i wouldn&#39;t talk to a big company about this idea without a patent, i kinda rember a movie where bill gates stole the idea for a windows type computer from that other dude.

omfg that was good&#33;&#33;&#33; wow good joke right time... heheh i plan to get poepl much like yourselfs that have intrest... little here little there poeple i know... thanks for the input though and no you will have to pay for the cooler at the kazzalite first 65,000 user promotion price... lol i think that should work...

[Duffman]

nice good luck man, if i can help just send a message and ill do what i can to help with this... it needs a name though...

[neevakee]

i cant stress this enough i have heard so many stories of horror. Before you get any money or any help talk to an attorney. You have to set this up so some one dosen&#39;t screw you. I don&#39;t like people that have good ideas getting screwed its just wrong. Talk to the attorney, dont use a packet or internet talk to a real person and see what they think. Tell them your idea for money and ask how much. make sure that the first sesion is a free consulting. I wish you the best of luck and i hope that the Big GUys dont screw you over. Best of luck man.

[Duffman]

just to get you excited, think big, microsoft big, buyout, standard on all systems

[SciManAl]

st to get you excited, think big, microsoft big, buyout, standard on all systems
actually it does, i am talking with an atourny or at least will it is apparently too late at night... :rolleyes: :lol: anyway i am going to get signitures, on the documents and get some cads done, then finish the modle, and get a atourney and patent pend the bitch then get some investors/buisness parters.. and get a patent... it should work ok... i hope hehe

[Duffman]

just remeber the little people that encouraged you and gave you advice

[Spicker]

lol i still dunt understand how it works :frusty: :frusty:

im only 14 :unsure: :) B)

all i noe in chemistry is the dam periodic table and stuff :ph34r:

u shud draw a diagram and scan it or sumthin or take pictures of ur computer :o

[SciManAl]

lol i still dunt understand how it works&nbsp;

im only 14

all i noe in chemistry is the dam periodic table and stuff

u shud draw a diagram and scan it or sumthin or take pictures of ur computer

i will never forget the little poeple... don;t worrie i think at this pint it is ok for me to metion that i am infact 14... (keep your head high jaigandhi5... anything is possible...)



u shud draw a diagram and scan it or sumthin or take pictures of ur computer&nbsp;
for now no, i wil get a patent pending first.. i guess for now i can only assure you that it is big ugly and heavy... lol i think the new casting method i am think of may help...

[Duffman]

from what i understand and i might be wrong the liquid flows absorbing great amounts of heat keepthings cool, and the hot liquid evaporates into a take where it is then cooled down angain like a cycle.


cool liquid -> absorbs heat -> evaporates -> gets cooled once again -> repeat

[SciManAl]

from what i understand and i might be wrong the liquid flows absorbing great amounts of heat keepthings cool, and the hot liquid evaporates into a take where it is then cooled down angain like a cycle.


cool liquid -> absorbs heat -> evaporates -> gets cooled once again -> repeat

yep that is how it works.. theat is the heatpipe theorim...

[Spicker]

Originally posted by SciManAl@6 January 2004 - 05:29

lol i still dunt understand how it works&nbsp;

im only 14

all i noe in chemistry is the dam periodic table and stuff

u shud draw a diagram and scan it or sumthin or take pictures of ur computer

i will never forget the little poeple... don;t worrie i think at this pint it is ok for me to metion that i am infact 14... (keep your head high jaigandhi5... anything is possible...)
:frusty: OMG ur kidding&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

u must be the smartest kid in skool :o ;)

and ME...i cant get any work/homework/study done/do lol cuz of computers so addicted i love to mod computers but dunt hav the toolz or the money <_< i noe computers hardware ALOT can obviously build computers :lol:

but ur WAY TOO SMART :ph34r: :frusty: :helpsmile:

i dunt belive u :o

how did u come up with it? do u hav any other ideas?

dam u SMART&#33; :01:

[Duffman]

im glad i wasn&#39;t toatally off, that shows i learned a thing or 2 in highschool chem

[Spicker]

Originally posted by Duffman3@6 January 2004 - 05:30
from what i understand and i might be wrong the liquid flows absorbing great amounts of heat keepthings cool, and the hot liquid evaporates into a take where it is then cooled down angain like a cycle.


cool liquid -> absorbs heat -> evaporates -> gets cooled once again -> repeat
tht sorta makes sense but how does the cool liquid absorb heat and how can it evapourate? duz the water hav to be over 100C to evaporate? or sumthin? :frusty: :frusty: :helpsmile:

[Duffman]

well thats the problem 1 we have to find a water additive that will not freeze but will boil as close to zero as we can get

[SciManAl]

QUOTE (SciManAl @ 6 January 2004 - 05:29)
QUOTE&nbsp;
lol i still dunt understand how it works&nbsp;

im only 14&nbsp; &nbsp;

all i noe in chemistry is the dam periodic table and stuff&nbsp;

u shud draw a diagram and scan it or sumthin or take pictures of ur computer&nbsp;



i will never forget the little poeple... don;t worrie i think at this pint it is ok for me to metion that i am infact 14... (keep your head high jaigandhi5... anything is possible...)&nbsp;


OMG ur kidding&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

u must be the smartest kid in skool&nbsp;

and ME...i cant get any work/homework/study done/do lol cuz of computers so addicted i love to mod computers but dunt hav the toolz or the money&nbsp; i noe computers hardware ALOT can obviously build computers&nbsp;

but ur WAY TOO SMART&nbsp; &nbsp;

i dunt belive u&nbsp;

how did u come up with it? do u hav any other ideas?

dam u SMART&#33;&nbsp;

for a time i was in the same place, but i worked my ass off and pulled it together i am not a genuis... i just put things together and this board has all played its part to help me get this idea going... (well not bookworld... yeah not bookworld... :P lol) so dfon&#39;t worrie i just ytinkered and happened to hit a gold mine.. play with ideas always consider them... it is fundemental...

[SciManAl]

the water ratio/ingredients are my secret... that is whatmakes this amazing... and if you buy one and try to make your own by taking it aprt it will not work so.. pretty much steal proof... although i think clocker knows... he has the knowledge i think to piece together the puzzle i have laid before him...

[Duffman]

ill try to explain this to the best of my ability heat energy cannot be destroyed under the law of conservation of energy, heat = enegery and it cannot be destroyed by an means however it can be transfered somewhere else into another form. The heat radiates off the hot computer parts and the liquids natural reaction is to absorb the watter and get hotter and hotter until it evaporates, from here it rises up because hot air rises, more heat increases volume, and indirectly decreases the density and the less dense warm air rises to the cool area, a tank that is super cold and the energy is trasfer back to cold water or whatever liquid is used and flows back down the pipe to absorb more heat

[Spicker]

NVM&#33;

[Duffman]

no, we want to get the water to boil and i use water loosly, water boils at 100C which is too hot for computer parts the idea is to concot a liquid that boils hot at around 30C so the evaporation takes place at safe temps not dangerously high ones

[Spicker]

Originally posted by Duffman3@6 January 2004 - 05:42
no, we want to get the water to boil and i use water loosly, water boils at 100C which is too hot for computer parts the idea is to concot a liquid that boils hot at around 30C so the evaporation takes place at safe temps not dangerously high ones
errmm how is tht possible thou? :blink:

[Duffman]

dude youve stumbled upon an edison like puzzle, open it up and the liquids evaporate because the room teperature makes it boil, finding the exact ratio between chemicles is like edison looking for the right alloy to make a lightbulb work

[Duffman]

thats the genius we can only speculate its really trial and error to figure out how it works i suppose you take a liquid that boils at like 15C and mix it with water until you concoct a liquid with the desired BP

[SciManAl]

hmm nice work it is good to know that in all my good findings that i have awakened some knowledge in another persons mind, to see the person comprehend and then comunicate thier minds is always music to my hears... (i really need to stop teaching classes... lol umm yes that is close very close... that was the problem clocker helped me solve... hmm... don&#39;t want to give away what i found out though so i won&#39;t help you further... that problem WILL stop you i think... so untill i come back in a week with patent pending (or so i am told) i will not be talking any more... :P

[Duffman]

im not gonna take away the idea i mearly maintained a average around 85 in chem so im trying to translate it into human language

[Spicker]

Originally posted by Duffman3@6 January 2004 - 05:50
im not gonna take away the idea i mearly maintained a average around 85 in chem so im trying to translate it into human language
lol i got a 73% :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :( :angry:

[SciManAl]

i know your intentions are good... (85 not bad i get around 78-83) hehe i know that simply the very basic elements you are placing together are what can be used to make this system work.. this system is really phenominally simple... (something that means it will be relitivly cheap...)

[Spicker]

Originally posted by SciManAl@6 January 2004 - 05:49
hmm nice work it is good to know that in all my good findings that i have awakened some knowledge in another persons mind, to see the person comprehend and then comunicate thier minds is always music to my hears... (i really need to stop teaching classes... lol umm yes that is close very close... that was the problem clocker helped me solve... hmm... don&#39;t want to give away what i found out though so i won&#39;t help you further... that problem WILL stop you i think... so untill i come back in a week with patent pending (or so i am told) i will not be talking any more... :P
i wish i had ur brains&#33; :frusty:

i wish i cud do sumthin like tht :frusty:

[Duffman]

i certainly wasn&#39;t one of the smarter kids in my class but i understood stuff enough

[Spicker]

Originally posted by SciManAl@6 January 2004 - 05:54
i know your intentions are good... (85 not bad i get around 78-83) hehe i know that simply the very basic elements you are placing together are what can be used to make this system work.. this system is really phenominally simple... (something that means it will be relitivly cheap...)
cheap IS GOOD :D :D

i love computers and evrything but i dunt noe wt to do....with tht knowledge... <_<

[Duffman]

if i had forums like this when i got my first computer w3.1, like 8mb or ram, duel 2mb hds i think and aol, before version 2.o im talking actual aol version aol, and i learned everything my self, id know a helluva lot more if i had these forums years ago

[Spicker]

Originally posted by Duffman3@6 January 2004 - 06:00
if i had forums like this when i got my first computer w3.1, like 8mb or ram, duel 2mb hds i think and aol, before version 2.o im talking actual aol version aol, and i learned everything my self, id know a helluva lot more if i had these forums years ago
my first computer was a 486 8mb ram 500meg hdd 75MHZ win.95

i learnt lots of things...from tht computer....

k guyz im off to bed&#33; bye

[Duffman]

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/060104-kasdfjghwjkh.bmp

this is a loose loose loose diagram, basically the blue is cool water, red hot use your imagination where in my pic it goes in and out in the real thing it will go into the computer and attach in a way to the compomnents of the computer. The box at the top has a cooling agent to recool the water and the slant prevent the water from going down the wrong tube and stoping the cycle, didn&#39;t wanna get to detailed cause its late and im going to bed, but just some food for thought

[_John_Lennon_]

Skeptic here.

Okay, so let me get this straight, SciManAl, you have one big massive heatpipe solution, and I assume that it has heatsinks that connect to your CPU, and Northbridge of course. Now, inside this heatsink, lets just say that the outside is made out of copper, enclosed per say. So inside is X fluid, is in this enclosed heatpipe, and it somehow settles near the processors, or other hot spots. Because off the heat coming off of the hot spots, X solution heats, and boils, at the nice point of 30C so or whatever. Now,

1. This is my main gripe. Where does it rise to relative to the case? the processors on ATX boards are areadly on the top of the boxes, so where would the heated, and vapor form of X solution cool down? Would we have to mod all our cases so it mods up further above?

2. Along with number 1, another question. Okay, so lets say it does evaporate and rises up to Y area to cool off. My question is, how is it going to cool off? Has someone already stated, the energy that is in X solution as a vapor is not destroyed, it merely changes form, into heat. But, now, you have heat, that merely&#39;s traveled from your CPU&#39;s, to the top of Y area. How are you going to cool Y area off? Hah, air perhaps? Well heck, if its air, then I bet a fan or two would do a better job, then right? See my point? Also, the liquid nitrogen, to ultimately cool the X soltution, would somehow end up going away because of its willingness to return to room temperature, (or in this case, an even higher temperature) as a result the Liquid Nitrogen would end up going away. Am I going to have to get a recharge of LO every few weeks? Days?

3. Now for your X solution. You are looking to have something that boils at about 30C. Which would mean about 86C, last time my converting was correct. Even if you did find a solution that boiled at this point, do you actually think that this would be safe, and feasible to manfacturer, and put in your heatpipe? I mean come on, is this stuff going to made in the arctic, to prevent the damn chemical, (which will of course be posionous, and hazardous, knowing its low boiling point) from evaporating during the manfacturing, or installation process of it, in the heatpipe?

4. What about expandability. This will be pretty much a hollow shell I would imagine, with X liquid in it. Well, what if I want to cool my video card? How would I (an overclocking and DIY person) be able to install an extension to cool my card, and memory of course? The sheer idea of addons seems implausable, because where would I connect the addon? It would have to have X liquid in it as well, but how would it link up to the main chamber?

5. With these ideas in mind, what makes this appeal to me. Now this is more the marketing side of things, but its still another important part. What makes your heatpipe solution, &#39;better&#39; than, watercooling?


Just a few questions, so IM me sometime if you want to talk. Drksideoftheloon

[SciManAl]

Sorry for being away... i was really bummed out.. it already exits... it already exists... hmmm... i am pretty sad... but in any case i will make them anyway... i have yet to see it made publicly and as such i don&#39;t see a reason why i can&#39;t on small scale make some of them... (non profit, for the poeple that need them)

Now since the patent is already there besides a few trade secrets i wil open up about my project...


1. This is my main gripe. Where does it rise to relative to the case? the processors on ATX boards are areadly on the top of the boxes, so where would the heated, and vapor form of X solution cool down? Would we have to mod all our cases so it mods up further above?

The cooling unit (my newest version, the original exploded.. :P ) is about as big asd a CD drive plus a little hight and it fits in a bigger computer case right infront of the PSU... it SHOULD fit over the tops dive and if not, it could even be mounted there.


2. Along with number 1, another question. Okay, so lets say it does evaporate and rises up to Y area to cool off. My question is, how is it going to cool off? Has someone already stated, the energy that is in X solution as a vapor is not destroyed, it merely changes form, into heat. But, now, you have heat, that merely&#39;s traveled from your CPU&#39;s, to the top of Y area. How are you going to cool Y area off? Hah, air perhaps? Well heck, if its air, then I bet a fan or two would do a better job, then right? See my point? Also, the liquid nitrogen, to ultimately cool the X soltution, would somehow end up going away because of its willingness to return to room temperature, (or in this case, an even higher temperature) as a result the Liquid Nitrogen would end up going away. Am I going to have to get a recharge of LO every few weeks? Days?

I also had this problem however the way it works, as in testing has shown is that as the liqaud nitrogen gets hotter it wiol try to expand, and when the it hits the steel block, (around 300 psi) it is forced to stay at least a certain amount of cold, as the energy is put into force against the Steel block (original was aluminum, so it exploded during long term..)


3. Now for your X solution. You are looking to have something that boils at about 30C. Which would mean about 86C, last time my converting was correct. Even if you did find a solution that boiled at this point, do you actually think that this would be safe, and feasible to manfacturer, and put in your heatpipe? I mean come on, is this stuff going to made in the arctic, to prevent the damn chemical, (which will of course be posionous, and hazardous, knowing its low boiling point) from evaporating during the manfacturing, or installation process of it, in the heatpipe?

water is "chemical x" trade secret.. but yes hear my words water...


4. What about expandability. This will be pretty much a hollow shell I would imagine, with X liquid in it. Well, what if I want to cool my video card? How would I (an overclocking and DIY person) be able to install an extension to cool my card, and memory of course? The sheer idea of addons seems implausable, because where would I connect the addon? It would have to have X liquid in it as well, but how would it link up to the main chamber?

Firstly i expect the only poeple to buy this would be OCers ect.. but it comes standerd with all those parts.. all parts are subject to a vacume, and that was a problem to maintain that lack of pressure... I made a circut/pump combo that is really small that will in about 2 minute or less take normal atmospher inside the Cooling unit and remove that atmosphere. I also used a Memebrane to keep the water in the unit and not get pumped out... umm the things are however connected via on/off valves.. a total of 8 in and out valves are present... so five items can be cooled... I have made several heatsinks similar to the ones used in the PS2 console to cool different things in the computer ranging from the harddrive, PSU, northbridge, CPU, RAM, Vid card proccsor and Ram.



5. With these ideas in mind, what makes this appeal to me. Now this is more the marketing side of things, but its still another important part. What makes your heatpipe solution, &#39;better&#39; than, watercooling?

Well it is silent, uses almost no electricity (only a tiny pump... about 1 inch diameter), can keep up to 5 plummers torches heating hot plates at 50c or less... it is the best of all worlds i think... So i think it IS better than water cooling, air cooling, etc and it is less than 250 bucks... water cooling can be more...


well ia m bummed out about this whole thing... i guess i just won&#39;t be the first to make it... i won&#39;t be able to get a patent, but it is a 20 year old patent, so i can definitly still use it... just i won&#39;t be protected... hmmm :(

well thanks guys allot of constructive critisism was thrown my way and it helped allot. I may not get to be a major manufactorer, but i stil make some for my buddies... (KL board and beyond) My biggest problem now is production... It would be nice if poeple that had machine shops could replicate this system for themselvfes, so that i can help multiblew poeple become proficent in tweaking the system so that it is ready to use... (Clocker ;) hehehehehehe :P


anyway poeple thanks one last time&#33; I will be on now for the long run.

[DWk]

Awwww that&#39;s bad news :(

Sorry it didn&#39;t work man. Keep it up&#33; :)

[SciManAl]

Awwww that&#39;s bad news

Sorry it didn&#39;t work man. Keep it up&#33;&nbsp;

thanks... hehehehehehehehehehehehe :P no harm, i ended like i started so i think it is ok... at least i am not describing hhow i got married in Vagas and how they divorced and took my money... :lol:

[DWk]

Ha&#33; Man, it is still a good idea. You could find out who owns the patent and talk to them. Maybe they havent got out the product because they don&#39;t know how to actually finish it. Maybe you can help them finish :o

Try&#33; :)

[james_bond_rulez]

Originally posted by SciManAl@5 January 2004 - 17:44
Hello,


Some good news for the problem on AMD over clocking and how to get rid of the heat... OK as I stated at an earlier date (sometime last year :frusty: ) I have started developing a silent Heat pipe cooling system that will cool all components in the computer so that there is no longer a need for fans at all... Now after all this time I am very close, at this point I only need too change liquids to make it more stable. Up to this point I have successfully tested a heat pipe system that uses no fans etc, and generates no noise. Its big flaw however was that the method of which a heat pipe works is that the hot water evaporates takes the heat with it, and dumps it off elsewhere... a very efficient method on paper, it has been hard to use effectively due to a lack of liquids with a boiling temperature that is optimal... (optimal being a variable that is different for every set up :frusty: ) now the problem now that I have given some background is this, Before I have been using water in a decompressed atmosphere, causing the boiling point to lower this also does give the system some inherent difficulties which might be ok if one was never to unhook a hose ever... (the seals are that bad and every time one unhooks a hose they get looser) and so I have come to a crossroads, either use water, which has been having problems with part II of this experiment (described later) or choose to change to a chemical alternative that has a boiling point of about 20-30 degrees centigrade, will not freeze (or can be blended with things that can&#39;t) and can hold some heat.

Part II of the problem titled: playing with liquid nitrogen can be a health hazard...

Okay I have this wonderful system now with a chemical alternative that can evaporate when it gets "hot" and a nice flow, now something has to cool down all this vapor coming up the tubes... this is where my buddy liquid nitrogen comes in. I took a block of copper, (the machine shops mill can only handle copper or aluminum, it is not heavy duty enough... but then I have no complaints with copper) and machined some tube paths inside, then took stainless steel tubing (to help counteract the effects of liquid nitrogen. and fitted them together with a rubber seal to cover the gap between the blocks (much like the piece between the top part of an engine block and the bottom part, mainly to keep the real hard cold inside... make the cold have to migrate to the outside... ) this block was capped of with a pressure valve and to the bottom I hooked about 20 ram heat sinks that would add surface to the block... at this point I have made an incredibly cold (-20 centigrade) block of metal that stays cold always and made that the top of the tank/condensing chamber and that would be what would take 30 max centigrade liquids and turn them freezing in seconds... (The water would in test runs out of computer freeze... so I added a bit of antifreeze... it wasn&#39;t optimal, but it worked...) this was a dream come true, completely silent... extreme cooling... in the computer runs came out with temps as low as 3-10 degrees centigrade with over clock... (Idle and load) very nice overall... not bad looking... any need for fans...

Now I still have a problem, I need to get the max out of this system... I need to get a better liquid to put in the pipes. I have hit Google but haven’t found anything... I was hoping for a really good chemist was lying around... I would also like a somewhat more personal response than the WebPages give, although they are always helpful so send the links if you find them. Umm well I think that is it... I would include links but it isn’t that glamorous, just the results... it is completely metal construction help together with bolts and rubber grommets, with the exception of some tubing... but to give it any measurement at all would be hard... it cools the following components:
CPU
PSU
Harddrive
Northbridge
Grapghics card
And last but defiantly least&#33;&#33;
Ram :01:

hehehehehehehe :P


Okay well I have my success, the thing still weighs too much for you LAN game players... it weighs in at about 20 pounds no joke... :frusty: one heavy bitch...

Okay then let the responses come in thanks guys&#33;&#33; Inspiration is easy too find in the place thanks&#33;&#33;
Wow I bet that is the best thing I have ever written on this forum before; I dare you to find a misspelled word…
right... and if i help u i get 50% profit? lol right....

[SciManAl]

right... and if i help u i get 50% profit? lol right....

actually if you were to produce based on my cads, then i think it work best since we live apart to use the franchise system... i don&#39;t know... you make profit, give me a small bit off the top... i sel some get all profit etc... but no more like you would make an actual 30 percent per unit... for you, i would get 10 and the rest would be production costs... just need some good metalworkers that can also do the little stuff... ie circut boards (i could also makes those i guess though and ship them out...

[SciManAl]

and if you helped that would be consulting,pay would be considerd based on your qaulifacations..., but i have that mainly done... Thanks anyway :D

hmm...

[Spicker]

ummm do i still get one for free :rolleyes: :unsure: :01:

[SciManAl]

hmm like stated earlier.. if you build it yourself then yes well materials cost.. but you could make one yourself.. I am ready to make and sell some for here at minimal prices... umm no not FREE, but cheaper...

[james_bond_rulez]

not just production costs you have to go against the industry already in market

u think it&#39;s easy to sell? lol nah

[SciManAl]

be prepaird to pay 250-300 US for the system... it is worth it though..one won&#39;t need to pay for anything else i think in some time...

It would be a great small effiecent system for the Overclocker in all of us...

[james_bond_rulez]

i can pay for a similar water cooling system half that, 175 Canadian dollars

hahaha

:lol:

[SciManAl]

, but does that system run silent?? does it offer the extreme cooling options?? does it allow for complete system cooling?? does it use a single fan?? thought so... lol hehehehhee :P

no matter what you say i can show you reults that are better
... :D

also the cooler used in that set up is not that great... i have one for my bros comp... it can barely cool his OCed 2000+ it is only 40c... mine would cool to somewhere between 5c and 20 c... andd for 8 componets... so... hmm... :rolleyes:

[clocker]

So SciMan, how long does it take you to produce this system and what kind of guarantee do you provide?
Are there piccies yet?

[SciManAl]

well it took me about 2 days to produce, of course that was the first one... i bet someone could get done fairly quick... It requires these abilities to make,

Metal Working: (you probably fit the bill and then some clocker)
Metals:
Copper
Steel (you could supstitute this for something else, but keep in mind that this is the metal that will reinforce a pipe that holds pressures in the ballpark of 300 psi)

Metal working tools suggested (all to get the desired effect if you can do it, then you can do it...)

Metal drill Press is the minamum, it will work, but this is slow... i used this for my first try... I later used a computer driected lathe (hehehe Wichita State Universities lathe... the airplane building in the local area prompts great manufactering classes...)

You need to be able to take copper and make a heatsink out of it... it will have an in and out... designs available... (although i bet clocker might be able to enhance)

The steel will be used to house a pipe that holds the cold element, it will need to have the durability to hold the pipe and reinforce it... i used a solid block of steel, and I etched out via a drill press the place for the pipe to fit...

The pipe is store bought steel, no biggie welding is required to attech the pipe together vie elbow joints...

you will then need some basic circut board stuff, if you don&#39;t know what then you don&#39;t have the skills to do it... i will make circuts i think, and offer them for sale...

other than that you hooke everything together via bolts... etc not too complicated if you have the stuff to do it..

One last thing, to fill it with Liquad nitrogen, you need a chemist to buy it, and a chemist to supervise filling it up to pressure... (100 or more psi at least, the chemist will know, but you have to get it to turn into a liqaud and keep it as one... which requires lots of PSI)

If a chemist is nowwhere to be found, then other things like R139a could be used... things like that when highy compressed can also do it, but thery have to be replenished... (still lasts a long time though...


what kind of guarantee do you provide?
I will give a 100% 2 million hour/3 year warrenty, although i bet that it will last longer than you the consumer will... (seriosly looks that way on paper...)


Are there piccies yet?
well depends on supply... in my location it wi cost around 200 bucks to make... but it may be cheaper based on mass purchase etc.. so the price to allow for me to make it worth it will be around 250-300... that will also allow me to have some buffer incase of price changes in supplys...

As for you clocker i would say that you just need to commit, and then i would say sure... get some things signed to make you part of ALCO industries and we will start making things... :P

[clocker]

ALCO Industries?

I sorta like Clocker, Ltd.

[SciManAl]

ALCO Industries?

I sorta like Clocker, Ltd.

:lol:

hehehe,Alco Industries is an established company... i figured it would be ok.. but i could partner Alco with Clocker, ltd... :rolleyes:


hehehehehehehe :P

but yes quite frankly you can sell them as whatevr company you like, but the place they originate from is ALCO... :D

[_John_Lennon_]

What about the liquid nitrogen. You say that the heat is transfered away from X solution, because of the LN. But doesnt the liquid nitrogen dissipiate as a result? Its not like it can continuly do this forever, because you have to transfer the energy (heat) to another source, which would entail adding more Liquid Nitrogen wouldnt it?

[SciManAl]

hmm, no, well if the tubing is not properly welded, then yes it could leak out, but you would know about it... the heat is dissipated via the fact that the hotter it gets the higher the pressure gets in the tubes... it doesn&#39;t dissipate, it is not a chemical.. The way Liquid Nitrogen, Liquid Oxygen etc are made is by taking their gas form and compressing them until the molecules have nowhere to move, and they turn liquid... if enough pressure is applied then you could even turn Oxygen into a solid... however that is how it works, it doesn&#39;t "go bad" when it is heated up it rather just tries to expand... so the container has to be very strong, and their is of course a pressure relive valve... just in case you are pressuring the system too much... now, a cheaper alternative is to use R138a or similar, it will need to be replaced every few years... but that could be done by anyone even slightly hardware savvy... or by any mechanic (well I wound&#39;t take the computer... just the container ) the ONLY flaw in my design is that in the event of a overloaded system... (That would take some crazy stuff) the pressure could become too great... that is why for safely purposes it will have a relief valve...

Sp

[james_bond_rulez]

water is more than sufficient to remove and transport heat off of a suited up computer.

only in extreme modding do u need liquid nitrogen

ur ideas are good but not practical to typical oc&#39;ers.

[james_bond_rulez]

right what about condessation problems? those liquid nitrogen in those tubes of urs is a sure way to condense water around the tubings. if not insulated properly water would invade critical system conponents and permenantly damage ur system.

destroying a thousand dollars system with some flawed cooling system is not really worth it imho :lol:

[SciManAl]

right what about condessation problems? those liquid nitrogen in those tubes of urs is a sure way to condense water around the tubings. if not insulated properly water would invade critical system conponents and permenantly damage ur system.

the cold element, and it assembly is inside a sealled unit... no condensation, that was a problem i started thinking about before it even hit paper all of it is insulated... heatsinks, and all


water is more than sufficient to remove and transport heat off of a suited up computer.

umm it has been stated numerous times that I am making a heatpipe cooler, the LN is the cold element that helps complete that cycle, it cools the water down, the cold element never comes into contact with anything other than water vapor... the water is indeed what moves the heat...

Anyone have any other Qs???

[james_bond_rulez]

ok so ur gonna have LN in a sealed system. so if the LN is heated up it goes to gas right? is ur system gonna withstand the pressure?

and how r u gonna convert gas nitrogen back to liquid state?

sorry if i didn&#39;t read the details but i get ur gist of the design.

[SciManAl]

ur ideas are good but not practical to typical oc&#39;ers.

my ideas are very practical i think... it would allow for completly silent cooling, extreme performance... and it would work even when your comp turned off... your stuff would stay cold all the time..


ok so ur gonna have LN in a sealed system. so if the LN is heated up it goes to gas right? is ur system gonna withstand the pressure?

and how r u gonna convert gas nitrogen back to liquid state?

sorry if i didn&#39;t read the details but i get ur gist of the design.

well firstly the LN will try to go Gasous yes... the system will be at extreme pressures, it will be a stainless steel pipe that is about 1/2 inch diameter, and then is surrounded with a steel block that will have the pipe embedded within... the pipe will hold the pressure, and pass what pressure it can&#39;t handle over to the steel block...

The safetly mechonism is a simple pressure valve, it will keep it from exploding, but that would only happen after extremly prolonged use ie a few solid years of running, or trying to dissapate the heat generated by the shuttle, in which case the nitrogen will harmlessly rejoin the atmosphere from whence it came...

How i am going to convert the gas you ask?? the gas will naturally turn into a liquad after extreme compression as the molecules have nowhere to move, and it turns to liquid... it will however stay as a liquid...

As for not reading the posts, no prob, :angry: hehehehehe i don&#39;t do that... :P

[james_bond_rulez]

you could first patent the idea first

i dont think its wise to go into mass production just yet since there is no really such need for "extreme cooling" like ur system.

ppl want economical yet not to complicated and maintence-needy cooling system.

but then i could be wrong and u could end up a millionare.....

who knows? :lol:

[SciManAl]

you could first patent the idea first

i dont think its wise to go into mass production just yet since there is no really such need for "extreme cooling" like ur system.

ppl want economical yet not to complicated and maintence-needy cooling system.

but then i could be wrong and u could end up a millionare.....

who knows?

yeah the patent already exists... it is a bummer, but I will still produce my version of it... (defence contractor kinda patent... :blink: ) It is maintience free... umm yeah i doubt i will be a millionaire... but i think i will at least make some KLDB members happy...

PS KLDB means KazaaLite Discussion Board... hehehehe :P

[james_bond_rulez]

so why r u looking for alternative cooling element? LN sounds good to me.

unless LN is expensive and ur looking for something cheaper

[SciManAl]

so why r u looking for alternative cooling element? LN sounds good to me.

unless LN is expensive and ur looking for something cheaper

LN sounds good to me too, however i am also looking at a much cheaper more available coolents like R138A... LN in its Liquid form is incredibly hazardous too... not that R138A isn&#39;t, but it won&#39;t take your arm...

[james_bond_rulez]

well i&#39;ll stick with the good&#39;old fans for now they are noisy but cheap

and who cares about noise when ur in a lan party where everyone is tryin to shoot the crap outta ya?

:lol:

[SciManAl]

well i&#39;ll stick with the good&#39;old fans for now they are noisy but cheap

and who cares about noise when ur in a lan party where everyone is tryin to shoot the crap outta ya?



lol good point... :D :lol: hehehehehe :P

[lynx]

Couldn&#39;t be bothered to read all the previous 6 pages, so this may already have been mentioned.

Alcohol.

Very low freezing point.
Lower evaporation point than water.

Of course, this could be why they use it in standard heat pipes. :rolleyes:

Methanol - expensive, boiling point 65C, poisonous.
Ethanol - cheap, next lowest at 78C.
2-Proponal - unknown price, 82C.
1-Proponal - unknown price, 97C, possibly carcinogenic.

Propanol is often used as the solvent in tape head cleaning kits, but it is likely to be a mixture of the 1- and 2- varieties, so it is probably not suitable.

You could try different ones till you find the one that works best, they all have a higher evaporation rate than water which is the requirement for a heat transfer process.

Btw, the lowest boiling temp is not necessarily the best, your heat pipe will not work if the transfer agent is constantly in the vapour state.

[_John_Lennon_]

Well, wait, err, meh, ugh, guh, umm.

I just dont get it here, the heat energy here, the Liquid nitrogen takes in the heat energy, and tries to expand as a result, which in a normal envoirnment would cause it to loose its cool tempertaure (take in Terminator 2, it dissipated after being so close to the molten metal.

But how does it get rid of the heat that it has, if it cant expand? Where does the heat go?

[james_bond_rulez]

it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process

i doubt it&#39;ll come to that as sciman stated

;)

and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn&#39;t want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?

alcohol as coolant lol... that&#39;s rich :lol:

[SciManAl]

and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn&#39;t want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?

alcohol as coolant lol... that&#39;s rich&nbsp;

i would not be so harsh, this info was nice to have, it explains why the water level drops so often in my WC set up... and alchohol doesn&#39;t tend to burn in an atmospher lacking any air... whi9ch wil be the case inside the cooling unit... i figured nothing explosive should be present since there is so much volatile componets...


it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process

i doubt it&#39;ll come to that as sciman stated
correct, it will not come to that, but it will do that as described...

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by SciManAl@12 January 2004 - 18:17

and no alcohol would suck as a coolant. u want some very cold like LN. you wouldn&#39;t want the pipes to become pipebombs do ya?

alcohol as coolant lol... that&#39;s rich

i would not be so harsh, this info was nice to have, it explains why the water level drops so often in my WC set up... and alchohol doesn&#39;t tend to burn in an atmospher lacking any air... whi9ch wil be the case inside the cooling unit... i figured nothing explosive should be present since there is so much volatile componets...


it expands until the pressure is so great it turns back to liquid again, heat is given out in the compression process

i doubt it&#39;ll come to that as sciman stated
correct, it will not come to that, but it will do that as described...
Sciman, I must be missing something, but im not going to argue with you on this one, dont know about it that much.

But, IM me sometime so we can talk a bit more. @ DrkSideoftheLoon

[lynx]

Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...

BANG&#33;

The whole point of a heat pipe it that the coolant has to be liquid at "normal" temps, but be capable of being easily vaporised. Alcohols fit this scenario very well, and in a sealed environment there is no risk of fire. Although the "flash" point is realtively low, this still requires an ignition source. The self ignition point is in the region of 400C. Not much chance of a pipe bomb there.

[SciManAl]

Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...

and rise untiull it turned back into a liquid again...

[lynx]

Originally posted by SciManAl@13 January 2004 - 01:59

Just how would you keep the nitrogen in a liquid state? This in itself would require a major refrigeration plant, which is hardly the point of the exercise. Otherwise, as it vaporised the pressure would rise. And rise. And rise until ...

and rise untiull it turned back into a liquid again...
Not without some EXTREME cooling measures. Have you realised just how cold -196C actually is? That&#39;s the temperature at which it boils. Like a kettle. Or a steam engine.

If you try to heat a sealed hot water cylinder to 300C, it will probably explode long before you get there. Thats at 200C above the boiling point.

200C above the boiling point of nitrogen is 4C. So if you put liguid nitrogen in a sealed vessel and fail to keep it cold enough, you can work out for yourself what is likely to happen.

[james_bond_rulez]

i dont know much about metals but isn&#39;t metals in colds like that become more brital? and with all taht contraction and expansion u r due to have a structual failure sometime and next time u know it explodes in ur face....

metals soften when heated but become crystalized when extreme cooled.

without a compressor to constantly take the heat out ur only buffer is the coolant itself.

have u ever tried to remove the coolant cap when a car engine is running? (dont do this at home) but if u do coolant shoots out like crazy, pressure does build up inside...

[james_bond_rulez]

oh and btw the chipsets are pumping out heat continuously so if the LN isn&#39;t moving (not circulating and actively transporting the heat OUTSIDE the machine) all ur system does is absorbing the heat, give it out and so on it doesn&#39;t move the heat OUTSIDE like a frige does

how r u gonna solve that? eventually u r gonna have a heat build up so great ur system isn&#39;t gonna take it anymore

it is still a FLAWED system

[_John_Lennon_]

Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@12 January 2004 - 22:31
oh and btw the chipsets are pumping out heat continuously so if the LN isn&#39;t moving (not circulating and actively transporting the heat OUTSIDE the machine) all ur system does is absorbing the heat, give it out and so on it doesn&#39;t move the heat OUTSIDE like a frige does

how r u gonna solve that? eventually u r gonna have a heat build up so great ur system isn&#39;t gonna take it anymore

it is still a FLAWED system
James, I know where your going with this.

Basically, your saying that energy is building up, with the LN trying to expand like heck, using all its energy to try and break open the block. So of course it will win right? Because if not than the energy will still remain intact?Well, not exactly.

Think about it like this, have you ever pushed on something really big? Like say, the side of the building? Well, in this example, you are exerting energy on the building, beacuse you of course get tired, but does the building show and kind of result of the energy? No.

Its the same way with this steel enclosure that the LN is in. The LN tries to get out, but the steel keeps it in, just like a big building with a comparatively small force being exerted on it. Eventually, if you put enough energy on it, than it will fall explode, but this will take just as long as you to actually push over the building.

So the LN loses its energy trying to expand, and goes back to its normal state.

[SingaBoiy]

So im guessing the project was unsuccessful lol

[clocker]

Probably a safe assumption, yes.