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Lamsey
02-27-2003, 04:07 PM
AMD and Intel are the two big cheeses in the computing world.

For those of you who don't know the differences:
- An AMD Athlon XP is much cheaper than an equivalent Intel P4.
- The Intel P4 has the fastest available desktop processor - currently at 3.06GHz, I think
- Intel chips are slightly less prone to overheating (this only affects overclockers)
- AMD-compatible motherboards tend to be cheaper than Intel-compatible ones.

So if you've got money to burn, go with P4.
The AMD Athlon XP is much better value for money, though.

Anyone know any different?

Fletch
02-27-2003, 04:21 PM
If you have money to burn go with the P4 and use rambus RAM - the performance increase will be noticeable - although there's now dual channel DDR for AMD with the NForce2 chipsets.

This is my system:-

Athlon XP 2000+
512MB PC2100 RAM
ASUS A7N8X Motherboard
Gainward Geforce3 Ti200 64mb

Haven't had a performance issue with it, can run Unreal2 at 1152x864 perfectly with all the highest detail options clicked.

"The Avatar Man"
02-27-2003, 04:34 PM
anyone know what's the cache size of the newest amd?
how does it stack up to the p4's 512k :blink:

Benno
02-27-2003, 07:58 PM
The next AMD will be a new XP with 512kB cache too.
After this the AMD will bring out a 64bit cpu the first one that comes out will probably have 1MB(!!) cache later they will bring one with 256KB.

I_DONT_SHARE_PORN
02-27-2003, 08:21 PM
My old AMD K7 1GHZ runs good on my cheap ass mobo with only 256MB PC-133 RAM
Works even better with Windows NT or XP (same thing)

Lamsey
02-27-2003, 10:04 PM
The next AMD will be a new XP with 512kB cache too.
I think that's the Barton core on the Athlon XP 3000+

Benno
02-27-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Lamsey@27 February 2003 - 23:04

The next AMD will be a new XP with 512kB cache too.
I think that's the Barton core on the Athlon XP 3000+
Yeah I think it will come out in may.

Lamsey
02-27-2003, 10:21 PM
It's out.

Check Tom's Hardware.

Benno
02-27-2003, 10:32 PM
Oh I didnt knew that it will come out so early. :blink:

Lamsey
02-27-2003, 10:35 PM
Roll on AMD64!

Hammer's gonna kick ass...

geprobert
02-28-2003, 01:58 AM
The only reason that I would think twice about getting a Socket A system is the fact that all the chipsets are made by VIA. That is an irrational hatred, by the way - I've just never liked them!

I built a PC for my girlfriend, and used an A-bit KT7A mobo - and had quite a few problems. Mainly with PCI cards, but it was annoying. There was a really helpful site, www.viahardware.com, which was SO useful - but it isn't around anymore. But I know that AMD used to make chipsets, and I just wish that a comany other than VIA would.

Anyway, as I said that is a bit irrational...

But I definitely agree that Pentium's are for people that are prepared to spend a lot. I am using a Celeron (yes, I know...) 1.0Ghz, and despite the fact that the Pentium III platform is quite old (by today's standards) it still costs obscene amounts to buy proper Pentium III's - so I'm not going to upgrade my CPU until I get a whole new mobo - which I have no other need to, as I have an A-bit BX-133 RAID - and I love it!

If I could get whatever I wanted (money no object!) I think that it would have to be a Pentium 4, with the Intel 845e chipset.

But if a company other than VIA made chipsets for AMD's, I would go there instead :)

Nobody1234
02-28-2003, 02:55 AM
@geprobert

But if a company other than VIA made chipsets for AMD's, I would go there instead 
I don't know where you get your information but VIA is not the only chipset company for AMD systems.

Check out this: http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/200.../nforce-01.html (http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/200106041/nforce-01.html)
or this: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=nforce

Anyway VIA chipsets are fine in my view.

geprobert
02-28-2003, 04:04 AM
Well now, that puts and end to that :lol:

I like the sound of nVidia chipsets very much! When I heard vaguely about nForce, I thought it was just the first on-board graphics chip from nVidia - but the info on the link you gave sounds cool.

I suppose it was just the KT7A mobo I had that annoyed be about VIA, but I do admit it is a bit daft...

But the amount of steps that you were supposed to have to go through to ensure an error-free setup was a bit silly in a way. It was like, first of all update your BIOS, then make sure that you have got your PCI cards in a specific order, try not to use Creative sound cards, then once you've installed Windows you have to install the VIA 4-in-1 drivers and then the VIA USB filter... when I put together my Intel BX based system I had no problems and did none of the above. Having said that, I'm not adverse to a bit of fiddling - and now the machine is settled it is okay.

But anyway, I do like the sound of an nForce based Mobo (preferably Abit!) with a nice big phat Athlon XP :)

Supernatural
02-28-2003, 07:57 AM
The full story on the P4 vs Athlon race here (http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1783).

Fletch
02-28-2003, 10:29 AM
What i'd like to know is are all future planned AMD processors going to be socketA? Because it's been around for a long time - but i would like to be able to keep my new motherboard for a while.

Razz
02-28-2003, 11:32 AM
What you said about oc P4 and AMD slight correction here the current P4 cannot be pushed as much as an AMD and if you have adequate cooling u can really push your AMD to its limits whereas an Intel just wont go very far at all check it out at overclockers.co.uk (http://www.overclockers.co.uk)

Razz
ps u are right the AMD is harder to cool but it will perfom better when OCed so use a nice great big delta fan setup or a water-cooled kit works well too
:D

Lamsey
02-28-2003, 04:52 PM
What i'd like to know is are all future planned AMD processors going to be socketA? Because it's been around for a long time - but i would like to be able to keep my new motherboard for a while.
All Athlon XPs use socket A - including the new Barton core (that's 3000+ and any later ones)

The new 64-bit 'Hammer' chip will need a new socket.


The only reason that I would think twice about getting a Socket A system is the fact that all the chipsets are made by VIA.
nVidia are newcomers to Socket A platforms, actually. The established competition is VIA and SiS.

VIA and SiS are just about on equal pegging, with SiS usually a little cheaper and VIA a little more feature-rich. The nVidia nForce2 chipset is also pretty good, very good for a budget computer as it has a decent Geforce4 GPU onboard.

My recommendations for Socket A boards:
Budget: Elitegroup K7S5A with SiS 735 chipset. Very good basic board.
More powerful: Asus A7V8X with Via KT400 chipset. Feature-packed, supports all the latest gear.
With onboard GPU: Asus A7N8X with nVidia nForce2 chipset. Feature-packed, supports all the latest gear, and has an integrated Geforce4.

Schmiggy_JK23
02-28-2003, 10:40 PM
lamsey, i dunno where u read about the asus a7n8x, but i have heard nothing about onboard graphics with that motherboard.

That is the top nforce2 board, and top overall amd socket a board period at the moment. Supporting dual channel ddr, it will really get the top performance out of your amd. And, it supports 400mhz front side bus... which amd just anounced they will be moving the barton core to 400mhz this year, before the Hammer drops.

I am on a abit kr7a133 raid at the moment. Great board from via, no complaints.

I would get the above board if I were making a system now, the Asus. In fact, I am currently building two gaming rigs, one for a friend, and one for my brother, both with that board, and a ATI 9700 pro for graphics.

I am waithing for the Hammer later this year, (hopefully), then I will build my next system.

Sharkey Extremes Recomendation for the Asus a78nx (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MHGSBG/article.php/10707_1962981__3)

Lamsey
02-28-2003, 10:46 PM
:huh: My mistake... I was looking at the spec for the nForce2 chipset, not the motherboard.

I stand corrected.

Schmiggy_JK23
02-28-2003, 10:51 PM
not a problem. I know when i first heard rave reviews about the board, i was like, yuck, who the hell wants a integrated geforce mx or such. Which was the case of the first nforce chipset, which, isnt for me. But when i got to reading about this specific board, i was thrilled, top notch performance, and what ever vid card i wanted.

Just imagine a nforce board for the hammer.... *sheds tears*

oh yes... please?!?!

abraham1812
03-01-2003, 12:22 AM
STAY AWAY FROM THE Elitegroup K7S5A [B] !!!!
I have this board and its INFAMOUS for requiring a HUGE PSU. It wont run athlons at 266 bus/proper cpu fequency unless you have a hefty PSU. Many owners of this board have the same problem. Your better off spending a little more $$ for a reliable board that wont require a Antec 450-500 watt PSU. Buy if u have a 500 watt psu, then this board will work fine. :o

Lamsey
03-01-2003, 01:58 PM
STAY AWAY FROM THE Elitegroup K7S5A [B] !!!!
I have this board and its INFAMOUS for requiring a HUGE PSU. It wont run athlons at 266 bus/proper cpu fequency unless you have a hefty PSU.
I built one of my teachers an Athlon XP-based computer with the K7S5A in a case with a 300-watt PSU and it works fine.

You should always go for an AMD-approved PSU and case... I got that one for £30, so they're not too expensive.

Monkey
03-01-2003, 04:43 PM
WtF!!! AMD can process more better, but AMD Costs more than Intel P4 for a slower speed, doesnt it???

Monkey
03-01-2003, 04:50 PM
Yep AMD is more expensive, 2.0 Intel P4 = 190, a Athlon™ XP 2400+ 2.0GHz Processor is 300.

Lamsey
03-01-2003, 05:06 PM
Clock speed is NOT the way to measure the performance of a CPU.

Athlon XPs are more efficient than P4s so they can do more in the same number of clock cycles.

The model numbers of Athlon XPs serve as a (rough) guide to the equivalent P4's clock rate.
So an Athlon XP 1700+ will be very close to a P4 1.7 GHz.
Similarly, a new Athlon XP 3000+ will perform a little less impressively than a P4 3.06 GHz.

Although you can measure small differences using benchmarks, the differences between P4s and similarly-rated Athlon XPs are not noticeable.


Therefore, the Athlon XP offers better value for money. Examples from my supplier:
Athlon XP 2000+: £66........P4 2.0 GHz: £135
Athlon XP 2400+: £113......P4 2.4 GHz: £165

Lamsey
03-01-2003, 05:08 PM
Just looked at your prices, Monkey...

You're getting conned on the AMD front - look for another supplier.

And I hope that's dollars or euros you're talking about.

Wocus
03-01-2003, 05:17 PM
personaly i prefer amd because its cheaper and isn't much wurs than intel (accept when you're a overclocker) tho i had a amd and i had trouble with xp (restarts all the time) so i took a intel celeron and no more trouble... that is... xp doesn''t have dos and i'm a dos programmer :angry: and xp sux to much ram... and xp is ugly and stuff... i prefer 98 se and prefer linux even more... but with linux there is also a lot of trouble with things...

Lamsey
03-01-2003, 05:24 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot about the budget CPUs... the AMD Duron kicks the Intel Celeron's ass in just about every department!

The best thing is that the Duron uses the same socket as an Athlon XP, so you don't need a new mainboard if you decide to upgrade to a better CPU.
Celerons use different a socket type from the P4, so you need a new mainboard to go from Celeron to P4.

Wocus
03-01-2003, 05:40 PM
well.. i'm getting a whole new system anyway... i didn't say intel celeron is good but i have better results with xp with celeron

namzuf9
03-01-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by abraham1812@1 March 2003 - 00:22
STAY AWAY FROM THE Elitegroup K7S5A [B] !!!!
I have this board and its INFAMOUS for requiring a HUGE PSU. It wont run athlons at 266 bus/proper cpu fequency unless you have a hefty PSU.
Normally I'd but this down to bad/cheap DDR. I'm running my E7s5a off a 350W generic PSU :D.

K7s5a
1800XP
512 crucial DDR
nvidia GeForce 4
2 x 120 gigs IBM deskstar

abraham1812
03-01-2003, 11:20 PM
This site www.ocworkbench.com list all motherboard manufacturers and any problems users report with them . The ECS K7S5A is known for its PSU problems, maybe i have shitty DDR Ram and its part of the problem. But as always I say pick AMD Athlon's.

Supernatural
03-02-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey@1 March 2003 - 12:24
Oh yeah, I forgot about the budget CPUs... the AMD Duron kicks the Intel Celeron's ass in just about every department!

The best thing is that the Duron uses the same socket as an Athlon XP, so you don't need a new mainboard if you decide to upgrade to a better CPU.
Celerons use different a socket type from the P4, so you need a new mainboard to go from Celeron to P4.
Actually, all modern celerons use the same socket 478 as the P4's. The only difference is bus speed. The new P4's are at 533 and counting... Celeron is still around 400. I don't know all the facts, processor technology changes all the time.

Lamsey
03-02-2003, 09:04 PM
all modern celerons use the same socket 478 as the P4's
:blink: I've never heard that... maybe I'm not looking hard enough

SiNi*F8
03-03-2003, 11:31 AM
:huh: I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that a bloke a bit south from me, overclocked his 2.4ghz P4 to a 3.6 with a 2 degree heat inscrease, using a 2 fan/heatsink setup. I'm really not sure about that thought, because it's over a Gigahert increase and I've never heard of anything so marvellous yet :D

vegeta
03-03-2003, 02:00 PM
i use intel p4 :P

TRshady
03-03-2003, 07:29 PM
Rate this pc please:

ABIT KG7 VIA686B Socket A motherboard

AMD Athlon XP+ 1.8 processor

Cooler Master Fan up to 1.8XP

512 ddr ram

32 mb graphics

Benno
03-03-2003, 07:34 PM
You will need a better vid card, at least 64mb but I would recommend 128mb.

TRshady
03-03-2003, 07:35 PM
I mainly want you guys to rate the notherboard and processor. Thanks anyway benno.

Benno
03-03-2003, 08:12 PM
I think you will be able to run everything at the moment. B)

TRshady
03-03-2003, 08:19 PM
cool, motherboards is one thing Ive never been to sure of. So how future proof do you think it is?

Supernatural
03-04-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by SiNi*F8@3 March 2003 - 06:31
:huh: I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that a bloke a bit south from me, overclocked his 2.4ghz P4 to a 3.6 with a 2 degree heat inscrease, using a 2 fan/heatsink setup. I'm really not sure about that thought, because it's over a Gigahert increase and I've never heard of anything so marvellous yet :D
No? I've seen a 1.8Ghz P4 overclocked to 3.5Ghz using dry ice cooling. It was just an experiment, as implementing such a method would cost thousands of (US) dollars. I've also seen a 3.06 overclocked to 4.5 using more conventional water-cooling (still quite expensive). The bottom line is.. P4 have much better headroom for overclocking. My friend cant get his athlon 2200+ over 1.9, and he has 7 fans in his case. :blink:

Lamsey
03-04-2003, 04:26 PM
Look at Tom's Hardware Guide (http://www.tomshardware.com) to see really extreme overclocking setups using both P4 and Athlon XP chips.

Look in the processors section to find recent ones - it's sorted by date.


Edit: just found this article - it's VERY IMPORTANT if you're thinking about going AMD.

Tom's Hardware Guide: Socket A chipset comparison (http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20030303/index.html)

This'll help anyone wondering about which mainboard/chipset to go with.

Wolfmight
03-04-2003, 08:59 PM
AMD Sledge Hammer will blow intel into the downhill side