Pregnancy Thru Assault

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Ok first I would like to apologise if this offends anyone or releases any emotions.
Sorry but I need to ask this.

Watching a tv prog today, a soap called Eastenders they have a story line where a woman (approx 30 y/o) was Sexually assaulted before xmas and is now pregnant because of this.
She is married and her husband obviously upset.

She has decided to keep this baby, he has left her saying that he could never love this baby and would always hate it.

I would have to agree with the husband, I'm not sure I would leave her but I would certainly not be happy and could not be asked to raise a child of a man that hurt the one I love.

Views please?

Please!!! do not spam this or give stupid answers, this is a very delicate subject!

Jonno B)

[hobbes]

In the wild, male animals can cause the woman to abort a fetus that is not theirs (some hormonal thing). If they do not, they kill the babies.

The husband is in the right according to the laws of nature.

[Gemby!]

i say that it is up to the mother if she wants to keep the child - she will be raising it and also in the soap zoe was raised even though she was a child of kat being raped ....

[mrlessk]

As a Catholic this is a tough one. If there is any better argument for an abortion I don't know of one. The choice, if not for an abortion, would certainly be to have the baby out for adoption.
Of course the husband is upset, his wife is carrying a baby not his own. How would any man under the same circumstances feel?

[Cheese]

Well, as a husband he made vows to stick by her no matter what and he is supposed to love her. He's being a coward in what is an awesomely difficult situation for his wife, he should be sticking by her no matter what. Even through something as extreme as this...

[hobbes]

Originally posted by gemby!@12 January 2004 - 00:02
i say that it is up to the mother if she wants to keep the child - she will be raising it and also in the soap zoe was raised even though she was a child of kat being raped ....
So her husband should raise it in his house? Work overtime to send it to college?

Baby needs to be put for adoption or aborted.

[Gemby!]

i would just like to say that personally im not sure if i would be able to raise the child because i dont know what it feels like to be raped but to some like mo a baby might only happen once...

@ hobbes - the husband isnt even sticking by her so she wont be needing her husband to send the child to college or raise the child in the house

[namzuf9]

I could'nt do it. The trouble is how could you leave her without it putting pressure in her to have an abortion (which I would never do)?
I'm a step-father to 2 wonderful kids but I could never bring up a child created from such a horrible event during my relationship.

[thewizeard]

A very difficult problem. If it was my partner and she wanted to keep the baby, I would support her in her decision.Why? The reason is I love my partner and a part of that baby would be a part of the person I love...

[RGX]

I would have stuck around....its not the kids fault, and I would not tar him/her with the same brush as his/her father....although I wouldnt view the child as my own, I would love and care for him/her all the same, because he/she is still 50% of my partner

If i loved someone enough to marry them, I would be prepared to go through thick and thin...and this is about as thin as it gets.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by gemby!@12 January 2004 - 00:06
i would just like to say that personally im not sure if i would be able to raise the child because i dont know what it feels like to be raped but to some like mo  a baby might only happen once...

@ hobbes - the husband isnt even sticking by her so she wont be needing her husband to send the child to college or raise the child in the house
That is my point, he shouldn't stick by her. She is on her own. She wants to destroy everything in the marriage for a baby created by a rapist, her choice.

I personally would put the child up for adoption, but in nature, the father would kill it.

[internet.news]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@11 January 2004 - 23:57
Ok first I would like to apologise if this offends anyone or releases any emotions.
Sorry but I need to ask this.

Watching a tv prog today, a soap called Eastenders they have a story line where a woman (approx 30 y/o) was Sexually assaulted before xmas and is now pregnant because of this.
She is married and her husband obviously upset.

She has decided to keep this baby, he has left her saying that he could never love this baby and would always hate it.

I would have to agree with the husband, I'm not sure I would leave her but I would certainly not be happy and could not be asked to raise a child of a man that hurt the one I love.

Views please?

Please!!! do not spam this or give stupid answers, this is a very delicate subject!

Jonno B)
I understand the point of view in some ways of her husband.

Personally I think that is mainly the decision of the woman whether she wants this child or not. Nevertheless all people involved in this should share their thoughts so that they would know and understand each other point of views better.

I also think that the child could be not responsible for this. If I see violence and ppl suffering - ppl are unfortunately just humans, and life also contains negative parts.
If we say someone acts like a human many ppl always first think that the person is friendly but acting in a human way may not only be friendly and so on as life
also contains negative parts...

[Samurai]

I have to agree with JONNO_CELEBS on this one... as much as I'd love my wife, I couldn't bring myself to bring up another man's child knowing that it's father had raped my wife. It would be a constant reminder that this child is not mine.

Personally I find it extremely inconsiderate of the mother to keep the child. Only thinking about one's self and how it'll look good in a cradle is no excuse.

@ Withcheese - Vows are two-way remember.

[internet.news]

..

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by hobbes+11 January 2004 - 23:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 11 January 2004 - 23:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gemby&#33;@12 January 2004 - 00:06
i would just like to say that personally im not sure if i would be able to raise the child because i dont know what it feels like to be raped but to some like mo a baby might only happen once...

@ hobbes - the husband isnt even sticking by her so she wont be needing her husband to send the child to college or raise the child in the house
That is my point, he shouldn&#39;t stick by her. She is on her own. She wants to destroy everything in the marriage for a baby created by a rapist, her choice.

I personally would put the child up for adoption, but in nature, the father would kill it. [/b][/quote]
How many fathers actually know that they are the father...only the mother really knows who the father is...

[J'Pol]

It is indeed a complex issue and there is no right answer to satisfy all of the aspects of this question. As such may I break it down into individual parts.

1. The baby should be allowed to live, babies are guilty of no crime and deserve to be born.

2. I fully understand that it is not his child, as such he may not wish to bring it up. Indeed given the circumstances he may not even wish to look at it.

3. In that instance, if his love for his wife cannot get him over that, then adoption is an option.

4. However it is her child and as such, she has a right to raise it. She may love her husband so much that she is willing to place the baby for adoption, however her mothering instinct may be too great.

5. If that is the case then they may split up over this, it really depends on the strength of feeling, from each of the parties. Both towards each other and the baby.

6. My one absolute in this is that the baby does not deserve to die, no matter what the circumstances of it&#39;s conception.

[Gemby!]

any father that kills his child is a bit of a psycho and shouldnt be allowed to walk the streets

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Samurai@11 January 2004 - 22:15
I have to agree with JONNO_CELEBS on this one... as much as I&#39;d love my wife, I couldn&#39;t bring myself to bring up another man&#39;s child knowing that it&#39;s father had raped my wife. It would be a constant reminder that this child is not mine.

Personally I find it extremely inconsiderate of the mother to keep the child. Only thinking about one&#39;s self and how it&#39;ll look good in a cradle is no excuse.

@ Withcheese - Vows are two-way remember.
Vows are two ways, but if she makes a decision (hers to make IMO) then her husband should stand by her. Of course vows don&#39;t mean much these days, and I can respect the decision of a man to leave in this extreme situation.

But his wife really needs him now, more than ever and he is running away. He&#39;s supposed to love her agter all...

There is no easy answer, and maybe no real right answer...I&#39;m getting more confused thinking about it...

[DVD PIRATE III]

I can sort of understand the fathers point of view, and I hope that i never have to deal with a scenario such as the one descibed..

[hobbes]

Originally posted by nigel123+12 January 2004 - 00:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 12 January 2004 - 00:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@11 January 2004 - 23:14
<!--QuoteBegin-gemby&#33;@12 January 2004 - 00:06
i would just like to say that personally im not sure if i would be able to raise the child because i dont know what it feels like to be raped but to some like mo a baby might only happen once...

@ hobbes - the husband isnt even sticking by her so she wont be needing her husband to send the child to college or raise the child in the house
That is my point, he shouldn&#39;t stick by her. She is on her own. She wants to destroy everything in the marriage for a baby created by a rapist, her choice.

I personally would put the child up for adoption, but in nature, the father would kill it.
How many fathers actually know that they are the father...only the mother really knows who the father is...[/b][/quote]
Nigel and Gemby, I am talking about experiments with mice. If a female is impregnated by a male, and she belongs to another, his hormones induce an abortion by the female and if children are born which are not his, he kills them.



At any rate, I suspect that this woman is lying. In any modern country, if you are raped you can take a "morning after pill" which will prevent a viable pregnancy. I think that this woman wanted to become pregnant and the whole rape thing is a farce.

Remember it takes about 6 days before the fertilized embryo will attach to the uterine wall.

[muchspl2]

http://members.cox.net/dodger1954/rape.gif

[bigboab]

I would not really know how to answer this one. I think the future of the child should be decided by both man and wife if possible. No way should the child be aborted. If the woman is thinking about aborting the child she should be reminded that half of the child is hers. I also think if the rapist is known and convicted he should be held financially responsible for the future of the child. This in my opinion would take away financial responsibilities from the womans husband if they decide to keep the child.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by bigboab@11 January 2004 - 23:32
I would not really know how to answer this one. I think the future of the child should be decided by both man and wife if possible. No way should the child be aborted. If the woman is thinking about aborting the child she should be reminded that half of the child is hers. I also think if the rapist is known and convicted he should be held financially responsible for the future of the child. This in my opinion would take away financial responsibilities from the womans husband if they decide to keep the child.
Sounds good to me, only trouble is, wages are not too high in prison...

[hobbes]

Originally posted by bigboab@12 January 2004 - 00:32
I would not really know how to answer this one. I think the future of the child should be decided by both man and wife if possible. No way should the child be aborted. If the woman is thinking about aborting the child she should be reminded that half of the child is hers. I also think if the rapist is known and convicted he should be held financially responsible for the future of the child. This in my opinion would take away financial responsibilities from the womans husband if they decide to keep the child.
How much money can he make in jail? If he doesn&#39;t support the child, will they jail him some more?

I really think the woman wanted to become pregnant.

edit: sorry, Nigel beat me to it :lol:

[bigboab]

Originally posted by hobbes@11 January 2004 - 23:36
How much money can he make in jail? If he doesn&#39;t support the child, will they jail him some more?

As I understand it in the UK. While someone is in prison the maintenance money is paid by the state and reclaimed at a later date if possible.

[Arm]

Ide leave her ass. Enough said. <_<

[Wizard_Mon1]

sometimes in nature the mother has sex with many males in order to alleviate teh threat of infanticide.

the mothers feeling are not taken in to account e.g. i dont think i could live with, it is inconsiderate of the mother. and so on. this is an extremely selfish view that will only lead to a break in teh relation ship.

if after being physically violated she still wants teh bady then that is her choice and if the man can&#39;t deal with that he should leave.
in a normal pregnancy people consider it to be both male and females choice but oon many occasions the male is willing to sow his seed but not take responsibilty for his actions.

in eastenders i think billys ultimatum was unfair (me or teh baby) and he should respect his wifes decision and say in sted of me or the baby which implies getting rid of it he should say i cant stand teh though of another mans (especially one who abused u) having teh ability to further influence your life or some such remark.

[Wizard_Mon1]

hobbes she didnt want to be raped but she was, she just wants to keep the baby
maybe as a way to turn something bad into something good?

[internet.news]

To add that: it is the decision of the woman - I don&#39;t know how I would decide if
someone would have raped me - It is a difficult decision for the woman.
:rolleyes: <_<

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 00:49
hobbes she didnt want to be raped but she was, she just wants to keep the baby
maybe as a way to turn something bad into something good?
As I said, I doubt that she was truly raped. Anybody who is raped can receive a medicine which will prevent the fertilized egg from implanting (which takes 6 days).

She obviously wants the baby more than she wants her husband.

[AussieSheila]

I&#39;m trying so hard not to reply but goddam you are a bunch of hard arse bastards.

Neither abortion nor adoption would be an option for me. Husbands come and go, children are for life. If my husband really couldn&#39;t deal with it (and I would hope that he would not be so shallow and selfish) I would leave him. If I was forced into abortion or adoption I would despise him anyway.

I wouldn&#39;t want support from the rapist ... I wouldn&#39;t want anything to do with him. Women don&#39;t NEED men to raise children ... it&#39;s preferable but certainly not essential.

Hobbes you surprise me.

[Busyman]

I&#39;d leave her.

It is of course her choice. That&#39;s a given.

Me or the rape baby.

Also someone mentioned the morning after pill. If she is oblivious to taking that then she wanted the baby to begin with.

[bujub22]

well me personaly
would leave if she decide to keep the thing ,but on the real ill kick her in the stomach so she cant&#39; have that bastards baby &#33;&#33;

and find the bastard and raise hell :angry:

[silent VI]

id cut the b*tch loose like an oldschool vet


btw that was a joke :rolleyes: id leaver her but in a we can be friends kinda way :01:

[hobbes]

Originally posted by AussieSheila@12 January 2004 - 00:55
I&#39;m trying so hard not to reply but goddam you are a bunch of hard arse bastards.

Neither abortion nor adoption would be an option for me. Husbands come and go, children are for life. If my husband really couldn&#39;t deal with it (and I would hope that he would not be so shallow and selfish) I would leave him. If I was forced into abortion or adoption I would despise him anyway.

I wouldn&#39;t want support from the rapist ... I wouldn&#39;t want anything to do with him. Women don&#39;t NEED men to raise children ... it&#39;s preferable but certainly not essential.

Hobbes you surprise me.
Shiela,

This may be a gender issue, sorry to suprise you, but that is how I feel.

That woman should have taken the "morning after pill" and this issue would have been settled.

She wanted this pregnancy.

As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers. Men want sex, women want babies.

Did the family involved have any children, this would be enlightening information.

[DanB]

Originally posted by bujub22@12 January 2004 - 01:03
but on the real ill kick her in the stomach so she cant&#39; have that bastards baby &#33;&#33;


:angry: :angry:

[silent VI]

Originally posted by danb+12 January 2004 - 00:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 12 January 2004 - 00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bujub22@12 January 2004 - 01:03
but on the real ill kick her in the stomach so she cant&#39; have that bastards baby &#33;&#33;


:angry: :angry: [/b][/quote]
hammer works better

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by AussieSheila@12 January 2004 - 00:55
I&#39;m trying so hard not to reply but goddam you are a bunch of hard arse bastards.


I do not feel that my post was in any way hard arse, neither am I a bastard.

My first instinct is to protect the baby. My next is to support the rights of the mother, it is after all her child. I believe I posted that way, if it did not come across like that then it was not well written.

However I accept that depth of feeling may vary. Some women have a greater mothering instinct than others, some love their husbands more than others. It is far from a black and white issue.

For example she may wish the child to live, but love him (her husband) enough to have it adopted if he can&#39;t cope. However she may want to raise her child and if he cannot cope with that, then she may be willing to leave him. Indeed it may show her the strength of his love.


Husbands come and go, children are for life

However you pick your spouse, you don&#39;t pick your relatives.

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by hobbes@12 January 2004 - 01:06
As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers. Men want sex, women want babies.

Could you please speak for yourself mister know it all?

[Wizard_Mon1]

no they had no previous children

perhaps she did want a child but that doesnt mean she should be scorned for keeping it even if there were pills available.... there were also other factors involved like her past expreiences of being in an abusing relationship before the marrige.

if i was that guy i would get my sperm tested make sure i was fertile then take the results to her and say you can have my baby , wouldnt that be better for all concerned.

[AussieSheila]

Originally posted by hobbes@12 January 2004 - 10:06

Shiela,

This may be a gender issue, sorry to suprise you, but that is how I feel.

That woman should have taken the&nbsp; "morning after pill" and this issue would have been settled.

She wanted this pregnancy.

As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers.&nbsp; Men want sex, women want babies.

Did the family involved have any children, this would be enlightening information.
But would the morning after pill have settled the situation or would there still be the "Some Other Mans Dick In My Wife" issue to deal with?

How awful to be trying to come to terms with being raped, and I have been raped, and have some selfish bastard crapping on about himself and how he can&#39;t deal with it. Or yeah, even better, kick her in the stomach. The pain men will deal out to women to satisfy thier own ego&#39;s is endless. I can&#39;t believe so many of you feel this way.

Edit: J&#39;Pol I wasn&#39;t actually referring to your post. I have children to take care of and can&#39;t be bothered specifying. It takes too long. :)

[Busyman]

Well you are going off-topic.

We are talking pregnancy not just that fact a women has been raped.
If a man leaves due his mate being raped (which I understand happens) the man, imo, is a bastard.

[silent VI]

:(

[hobbes]

Originally posted by summerlinda+12 January 2004 - 01:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda &#064; 12 January 2004 - 01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@12 January 2004 - 01:06
As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers.&nbsp; Men want sex, women want babies.

Could you please speak for yourself mister know it all?[/b][/quote]
What is your point?

I made a generalization which I think is germane to this thread.

That woman could have gone to the hospital and received a medicine to block a successful pregnacy the next day, she did not.

When you gather with relatives, who wants to hold the babies, men or women?

My statement is completely valid as a generalization.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by AussieSheila+12 January 2004 - 01:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AussieSheila &#064; 12 January 2004 - 01:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@12 January 2004 - 10:06

Shiela,

This may be a gender issue, sorry to suprise you, but that is how I feel.

That woman should have taken the&nbsp; "morning after pill" and this issue would have been settled.

She wanted this pregnancy.

As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers.&nbsp; Men want sex, women want babies.

Did the family involved have any children, this would be enlightening information.
But would the morning after pill have settled the situation or would there still be the "Some Other Mans Dick In My Wife" issue to deal with?

How awful to be trying to come to terms with being raped, and I have been raped, and have some selfish bastard crapping on about himself and how he can&#39;t deal with it. Or yeah, even better, kick her in the stomach. The pain men will deal out to women to satisfy thier own ego&#39;s is endless. I can&#39;t believe so many of you feel this way.[/b][/quote]
Shiela,

Your last post really highlights the complexity of all this. I am sorry for your experience, but had you been my wife, I would not have raised that child.

That is how I feel, that is what nature dictates as well. My mice model supports this to a tee,

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Busyman@12 January 2004 - 00:23
Well you are going off-topic.

We are talking pregnancy not just that fact a women has been raped.
If a man leaves due his mate being raped (which I understand happens) the man, imo, is a bastard.
she was raped and shes keeping it is it is relevant

i think if this really was to happen people would react very differently

[wolverine_x]

under my previous alias, i posted on the subject of abortion, and although my views differed to J&#39;Pol&#39;s, he informed me he was quite moved by what i had said.

he isn&#39;t a hard-ass, he just has strong beliefs.

my personal view, in summary from that last thread, is that ultimately the decision should always rest with the mother, but she should take into consideration all parties involved, baby included.

I am for abortion, but not in a casual way, factors like rape, high chance of baby being severely disabled, high chance of mother dying during birth are some examples where i think abortion is acceptable. adoption is a better option for people who have just made a mistake.

a child born into a world where it wouldn&#39;t receive love shouldn&#39;t really be born at all.

[bujub22]

Originally posted by Busyman@11 January 2004 - 20:23
Well you are going off-topic.

We are talking pregnancy not just that fact a women has been raped.
If a man leaves due his mate being raped (which I understand happens) the man, imo, is a bastard.
true he should be supportive but it&#39;s different when she get&#39;s pregant and wants to keep it ??

i mean she actully haves to see the guy in way threw the child and so would the father so i see no problem if she had the baby and he left ;)

[Wizard_Mon1]

when you can prove that mice have the same emotional attachment as humans then i might listen

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by AussieSheila@12 January 2004 - 01:20

Edit: J&#39;Pol I wasn&#39;t actually referring to your post. I have children to take care of and can&#39;t be bothered specifying. It takes too long. :)
Fair enough.

Sometimes there are trains of thought and expressions of opinion that one wishes to disassociate ones self from. Or at least not be inadvertently associated with.

I take your point re the time issue. I have a barrow load of my own, I know how much time they need.

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by hobbes+12 January 2004 - 01:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 12 January 2004 - 01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@12 January 2004 - 01:06
As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers. Men want sex, women want babies.


What is your point?


My statement is completely valid as a generalization. [/b][/quote]
My point was that you were generalizing. What you said is not true.
We are not mice BTW

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+12 January 2004 - 01:27--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 12 January 2004 - 01:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@12 January 2004 - 00:23
Well you are going off-topic.

We are talking pregnancy not just that fact a women has been raped.
If a man leaves due his mate being raped (which I understand happens) the man, imo, is a bastard.
she was raped and shes keeping it is it is relevant

i think if this really was to happen people would react very differently [/b][/quote]
Well whatever I disagree.

The issue is that there was a rape and a potential child is in the picture, not just rape in general.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:29
when you can prove that mice have the&nbsp; same emotional attachment as humans then i might listen
I was giving the point of view of nature, which would help to explain the response of the husband.

People, for some reason, tend to think that they are not animals, but they are 99% of the time.

[bujub22]

Originally posted by hobbes+11 January 2004 - 20:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 11 January 2004 - 20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:29
when you can prove that mice have the same emotional attachment as humans then i might listen
I was giving the point of view of nature, which would help to explain the response of the husband.

People, for some reason, tend to think that they are not animals, but they are 99% of the time. [/b][/quote]
were all animals jus diffrent types in diffrent eyes

[hobbes]

Originally posted by summerlinda+12 January 2004 - 01:34--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda @ 12 January 2004 - 01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@12 January 2004 - 01:24
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@12 January 2004 - 01:06
As a man, I understand that nature strongly drives women to want to be mothers. Men want sex, women want babies.


What is your point?


My statement is completely valid as a generalization.
My point was that you were generalizing. What you said is not true.
We are not mice BTW [/b][/quote]
My generalization is spot on, I don&#39;t pretend to speak for the individual.

[Wizard_Mon1]

well we are 98% similar to chimpanzees not mice

and if you want to use chimps as example then you data would be different.

mice do not = the whole of nature

[J'Pol]

This will go off topic very quickly if we are not careful.

I would like to think we can respect Jonno&#39;s request.

[Samurai]

Why is it the majority of women want to keep said child after what has happened? Technically it isn&#39;t even aware of what is going on, it is an egg surrounded by jelly.

[bujub22]

Originally posted by Samurai@11 January 2004 - 20:41
Why is it the majority of women want to keep said child after what has happened? Technically it isn&#39;t even aware of what is going on, it is an egg surrounded by jelly.
so then she need to have a abortion and why?? keep the baby

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:39
well we are 98% similar to chimpanzees not mice

and if you want to use chimps as example then you data would be different.

mice do not = the whole of nature
Mice were my example, do you think it stops there?

Do you know that alpha male gorillas will kill any male that attempts to mate with their females.

This is not about mice, I simply used the data about them to reflect a bigger picture.

[Wizard_Mon1]

in further responce females are animals to and there natural responce to infanticide is tio try and stop it.

for a male a pregnancy cost relively little in terms of effort but for a female it costs a lot of time and effort.

female chimp increase the uncertainty about paternaty so as to ward of infanticide attempts

[Wizard_Mon1]

Volker Sommer (my lecturer) whose own work on infanticide in hanuman langurs states that that there is a tendancy to to commit what is aclled naturalistic fallacy, to assume that what we see in nature is somehow, right, just, enevitable.

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Ok sorry to have run off, unitentional

Thanks to all who posted sensibly and did&#39;nt flame, I know this is a very sensitive subject but I was genuanly interested in your opinions on this matter.

2 points I picked up on from the females point of views

1= Gems.....You said (in the soap) about Kat and Zoe, Kat was 14 and did&#39;nt know she was pregnant til too late, plus she did&#39;nt have a husband.

2= Andie......You make a very valid point, I was&#39;t so much asking about the females view as we all know that this is the most horrific violation there is, no doubt about that in my mind and just the thought of such an act infuriates me.
And I understand a mother has an instant attachment to a child even when just maybe a week into the pregnancy, but what I don&#39;t understand is how she could consider keeping part of a human who so violently violated her body and mind within her, surely she would want all parts of the man out of her life, and a very good point was made by the husband (in the soap), he said "What if it looks like him?, what if it turns out like him?.....He has a mother and do you think she knew her son would be like this?"
Also you have to look at it from the males point of view, we have feelings too, and I think I would be mortified beyond belief at the atrocity, but then for my g/f/wife to want to keep it would destroy me completely, it&#39;s not being selfish but reverse the situation and look at it from a mans point of view, to have to either leave the one you love of for the rest of your life to look at and be expected to love another mans (a man who hurt your loved one) child..........every day, for the rest......of your life, knowing full well this child is no part of you&#33;

And before you all jump on me about people going into relationships with other peoples kids, thats a descision you make before you start, not years down the line.

Jonno B)

[Samurai]

Originally posted by bujub22+11 January 2004 - 23:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bujub22 @ 11 January 2004 - 23:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Samurai@11 January 2004 - 20:41
Why is it the majority of women want to keep said child after what has happened? Technically it isn&#39;t even aware of what is going on, it is an egg surrounded by jelly.
so then she need to have a abortion and why?? keep the baby [/b][/quote]
Care to put that into understandable English?

Tell you what, let me knock up any one of your girlfriends/wives and see if you&#39;ll raise the child as your own. You&#39;re all so happy about allowing this to happen, we&#39;ll both get what we want wont we?&#33;

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:53
Volker Sommer (my lecturer) whose own work on infanticide in hanuman langurs states that that there is a tendancy to to commit what is aclled naturalistic fallacy, to assume that what we see in nature is somehow, right, just, enevitable.
Is your keyboard possessed or are you just shitfaced?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes+12 January 2004 - 01:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 12 January 2004 - 01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:53
Volker Sommer (my lecturer) whose own work on infanticide in hanuman langurs states that that there is a tendancy to to commit what is aclled naturalistic fallacy, to assume that what we see in nature is somehow, right, just, enevitable.
Is your keyboard possessed or are you just shitfaced? [/b][/quote]
Now THAT was hard to "comprehend".

[Lilmiss]

I was raped when I was 17yr old, then became pregnant to this man.
Luckily for me, I miscarried before I had to make any decisions, but I understand how hard it is to terminate something that is part of you.

These women who are put in in that horrible situation, really have to make their own minds up, as it will play on them forever.

I dont watch Eastenders, but have heard the storylines for this particular drama.
My heart bleeds for anyone that is forced to decide something so important. :(

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by hobbes+12 January 2004 - 00:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 12 January 2004 - 00:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:53
Volker Sommer (my lecturer) whose own work on infanticide in hanuman langurs states that that there is a tendancy to to commit what is aclled naturalistic fallacy, to assume that what we see in nature is somehow, right, just, enevitable.
Is your keyboard possessed or are you just shitfaced? [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol:
i blame possession

[Wizard_Mon1]

a tendancy in other primatologists that is

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Sorry lilmiss, I did&#39;nt really want you to see this but I had to ask cos it was eating me up :(

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((lilmiss)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Jonno B)

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes+12 January 2004 - 01:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes &#064; 12 January 2004 - 01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@12 January 2004 - 01:53
Volker Sommer (my lecturer) whose own work on infanticide in hanuman langurs states that that there is a tendancy to to commit what is aclled naturalistic fallacy, to assume that what we see in nature is somehow, right, just, enevitable.
Is your keyboard possessed or are you just shitfaced?[/b][/quote]
Don&#39;t dis da man

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/anthropology/bioanth/images_bioanth/photo_sommer.jpg

Professor of Evolutionary Anthropology

PhD, Anthropology
University of Göttingen, Germany, 1985

PhD, Habilitation in Anthropology and Primatology
Georg-August-Universität, Göttingen, Germany, 1990

Tutor for the M.Sc. in Human Evolution and Behaviour

[Wizard_Mon1]

J&#39;pol how do you know Volker??

lol that was unexpected

[Lilmiss]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 January 2004 - 01:01
Sorry lilmiss, I did&#39;nt really want you to see this but I had to ask cos it was eating me up :(


You know Im "strong like bull". ;)
Im ok with this as it&#39;s something you have to get over, before it drags you under.

[AussieSheila]

Jonno, I have a friend whose first child is the child of a sadistic murderer. (This happened when the parents were no longer together.) I can assure you that neither her mother, her stepfather (who loves her as his own) nor anyone who knows the story sees the father in the child. We see the child, a lovely girl, who is showing no signs of becoming as sadistic as her biological father.

[JONNO_CELEBS]

@lilmiss.........Yeah I do know you are ;) :)

@Andie.......Ok :) Thats good that she&#39;s a good kid :) But it does&#39;nt always work like that and that was&#39;nt really my point, I was just quoteing one point the husband (in the soap) made :)
I&#39;m still very confused as to what is right and wrong........IF anything&#33;

Lets look

On the one hand you have the Woman who has been thru a horrific event and feels that this child is hers so she wants to keep it.

On the other hand you have her husband who has been saving and planning to have a family with her as a real family, just him , her and "Their" children and now he&#39;s faced with raising another mans child.

Very sad on both sides but surly you can see the husbands view, I&#39;ve often heard women say that nothing and no man comes between them and their child, this is so unfair as they never seem to care what the male feels, we&#39;re not lumps of wood, we have hearts and souls the same as you girls but some women seem to forget that :(

Jonno B)

[AussieSheila]

Jonno ... I can see what a bitter disappointment that would be, but life is full of them. If she were to be emotionally blackmailed or in some other way forced into an abortion or adoption she didn&#39;t want, the resentment would fester and destroy their relationship anyway.

It would be harder for the father to come to terms with this situation during the pregnancy, but I would hope the father would get councelling to help him deal with it. Once the child was born, if the father deals with his feelings and somehow manages to be there to support the mother, who has never needed it more in her life, then I think the father could grow to love the child. Children are very lovable and it would be difficult, I hope, for anyone to hold unfortunate parentage against the little person who is looking at you so trustingly.

Abortion was suggested to me with 2 of my children, the first because I was 17 and the last because I already had 2 babies and various other reasons. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s possible for me to take a life in that way. I remember exactly how I felt as I sat on the back steps thinking about it ... and I promised my baby that no matter how inconvenient or even risky it was I&#39;d give them every chance at life I could. It is a fiercely maternal thing that maybe you could never understand. Adoption would have left me aching with guilt and longing for the rest of my life, as well as resentment if I&#39;d been forced to it.


Very sad on both sides but surly you can see the husbands view, I&#39;ve often heard women say that nothing and no man comes between them and their child, this is so unfair as they never seem to care what the male feels, we&#39;re not lumps of wood, we have hearts and souls the same as you girls but some women seem to forget that&nbsp;

Yes, you do have hearts and souls, with some men it can be difficult to detect. ;) j/k (sorta) But you&#39;re comparing hurt feelings to a life.

:hug:

[JONNO_CELEBS]

True, very true :)

I can&#39;t really comprehend any of this or truthfully tell you how I would feel in the situation, I do know that I could never walk out on someone I loved, whether or not I could love that child maybe different, I really can&#39;t say, I just know that it must be the hardest thing to do for both parties :(

I know a very close relative who had an abortion at 14, she is depressed for one day of every year for the last 15 years, but no one will ever know whether it was right or wrong.

Thankyou for your input Andie, you kinda shed some different light on the subject for me :)

Jonno B)

[Skweeky]

UKMan says (as he can&#39;t post himself)


I refuse to get into any ethical or emotional problems on this subject because, me being a man, i cannot possibly understand what the woman is also going through - i dont watch East Enders, but i know the programme well. In real life there are many things to consider

What does the woman feel about this? After all she is the one carrying this baby, surely she has first priority in the matter?
Without knowledge of her opinion or feeling&nbsp; i cant speculate as to what the man should do, or even what my wishes would be.

I do know however one thing, i wouldnt give up the baby, especially if my wife or GF wanted to bring up the baby as well.

@hobbes - i cannot agree with you, allthough you have your opinion and i respect that. If the mother wants the baby, in which case i would also, after all its not the baby&#39;s fault, then why shouldnt i give it just as good a start in life as if it was my own child and not some other mans. If however the mother wants an abortion, then her wishes are paramount and should be considered first.&nbsp;
Thats all i&#39;m gonna say on the subject as i feel that this thread is gonna get nasty. Good topic Jonno, yet very sensitive and i wonder what kind of replies are awaiting. I would like to read what the female members think before even considering any more

Peace

UKMan

[Busyman]

This is why I like this morning after pill.
It does not abort the baby because it stops conception.
I think it will be available over the counter in the US really soon.

This way if there is a rape or a night a women would not care to remember, there would be some comfort in knowing that a women is not "killing a baby". <_<
Problem solved (unless the mother WANTS to be pregnant ;) )

I wouldn&#39;t be surprised if the Catholic church is against this pill even though it prevents conception. I think they are against contraception altogether. Weird <_<

[JONNO_CELEBS]

But (and I could be wrong here) women cannot use "The Pill" after a certain age, this I say due to a friend of mine having a hystorectomy because the doc told her she is now past the safe age to use the product, she&#39;s 31 :)

And please lets not bring religion into this :)

Jonno B)

[Busyman]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 January 2004 - 05:30
But (and I could be wrong here) women cannot use "The Pill" after a certain age, this I say due to a friend of mine having a hystorectomy because the doc told her she is now past the safe age to use the product, she&#39;s 31 :)

And please lets not bring religion into this :)

Jonno B)
1. Yes, you are wrong. There is no age restriction. In the US it is called Plan B. Anyway come on man 31 years old? If she can&#39;t use it because of her age who could, teenagers and 20 somethings. <_< That&#39;s a very small demographic.

2. How could religion not be part of it? Alot of women don&#39;t get abortions due to there religious beliefs.

[JONNO_CELEBS]

I&#39;m not talking about restrictions, I&#39;m talking about health risks, I think I&#39;ll have to find this out :)

And this thread was never about abortion really, I understand and agree with what you said but this thread is about a husband and wife in a predicament owing to Sexual Assault and pregnancy, that has nothing to do with religion, I&#39;m talking about morals :)

I just don&#39;t want this turned into a debate and ultimately a flame about religion, I have no time for religion and no interest.

Thanks for the input tho :)

@Ukdude........Thats a very strong standpoint and I applaud you for it :)

Jonno B)

[james_bond_rulez]

unwilling as i&#39;ll ever be i&#39;ll let my wife have the child, no doubt about it. I will be upset at first but a family is a family nobody can take away that

u&#39;ll have a child that is not ur own calling u daddy and just watch the lil bastard grow into a healthy normal human being, send him/her to college to have a good education and have a wonderful life

this is what i&#39;ll do if i were in the spotlight.

and this is what i&#39;ll do in real life stiuation.

hobbes i am very surprised at u. I was hoping u could be at least a little bit more understanding but seeing u not any different than a murderer. Abortion is NOT an option AT ALL. What&#39;s ur reason to take a life? besides having an aborsion will damage the body so the next baby ur wife is carrying will have a greater chance of miscarriage or birth defects.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 January 2004 - 05:43
I&#39;m not talking about restrictions, I&#39;m talking about health risks, I think I&#39;ll have to find this out :)

And this thread was never about abortion really, I understand and agree with what you said but this thread is about a husband and wife in a predicament owing to Sexual Assault and pregnancy, that has nothing to do with religion, I&#39;m talking about morals :)

I just don&#39;t want this turned into a debate and ultimately a flame about religion, I have no time for religion and no interest.

Thanks for the input tho :)

@Ukdude........Thats a very strong standpoint and I applaud you for it :)

Jonno B)
Ok then there are no "health risks" after a certain age. There may have been other factors as to why she couldn&#39;t use MAP. As a matter of fact anyone that can take nornal birth control can take this and then some. Birth control pills need a prescription here but Plan B will not. ;)

No this thread is not "about" abortion but it is very much an option whether exercised or not.
I brought it up because, with the advent of this pill, it would somewhat change the circumstances of your original post.

In regards to religion I don&#39;t how anyone can flame on this subject.
Religion and morals go hand in hand most of the time.

[Pitbul]

i&#39;d tell my wife to put it up for adoption if not i&#39;d prolly leave. the mear fact of that child being the outcome of rape adds alot of tension, tension that i sadly would try to aviod at all cost not only that but some else said that this child would be a reminder of that rape that, that anger inside the husbands head grew from, i do not believe in abortion i think every life is to be given a chance but i could not raise it, also i seriously do not know why a women would want to keep this child especially from what the sources of it was from, an act of Rape. but if my wife did truly want an abortion then who am i to say other wise it was not me who was raped and it is not my body.

[cowswithguns]

Personally, I could think of nothing worse than carrying the baby of a rapist. That I had been assaulted would be hard enough to deal with without having a constant reminder of the trauma. This would not be the way I would like to bring a child into the world.

I am not familiar with this program so I would have to presume that the woman has already chosen to keep the baby against her husbands wishes.

This being the case, although she has every right to make this decision, I can also see the viewpoint of the father. IMO unless the relationship was rock solid it would appear doomed.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by cowswithguns@12 January 2004 - 12:25
Personally, I could think of nothing worse than carrying the baby of a rapist. That I had been assaulted would be hard enough to deal with without having a constant reminder of the trauma. This would not be the way I would like to bring a child into the world.


I was a bit surprised that this was not the opinion of all the women here.

I think the problem I had with the topic was that I thought it was a "real" situation, now I realize it is a plot in a "soap", a scenario dreamed up by some writers.

It has been my experience that rape is one of the most emotionally devasating experiences a woman could endure. The desire of this woman to have the baby just seems to go against everything I have observed. Most women seem to retch at the thought of a rapists seed growing inside them.

I think this a writers creation and would not occur in real life. What do you ladies think? Could you bear this thought? Could you love this child? Should your husband have to support it?

In a real life scenario, the woman would have been taken to the hospital immediately and given the pill to prevent a pregnacy from occuring. Could you at this time have the emotional control to tell them "no", I will let nature take its course?


As for being called a killer, I stated that assuming the pregnancy had already occured, I would favor the options of abortion vs adoption. I personally, would favor adoption, but I would let the woman decide. I would not raise the child.

My discussion about animals was to indicate that nature had a way of dealing with this situation.


PS: Why could UKman not post directly?

edit: fixed some typos for no reason.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@12 January 2004 - 22:26
It has been my experience that rape is one of the most emotionally devasating experiences a woman can endure. The desire of this woman to have the baby just seems to go against everything I have observed. Most women seem to wretch at the thought of a rapists seed growing inside them.

In a real life scenario, the woman would have been taken to the hospital immediately and given the pill to prevent a pregnacy from occuring. Could you at this time have the emotional control to tell them "no", I will let nature take its course?



My sentiments exactly&#33;&#33;&#33;


edit: UKMan was probably busy yelling on a megaphone outside about his brother getting more chocalate cake than he did. :cry1: :sad1: :cry1: :sad1: :cry1:

[Gemby!]

@ sheila - i agree with what you have been sayign about putting a child before that of a husband

- i personally think that men in this thread should stop talking about the husband providing for the family - maybe the mother would do it ...... <_<

the husband should consider what the wife would be going through - many of you have been saying that you would make the mother choose between you or the child - what gives you the right to make her choose ?


and just because the woman didnt take the morning after pill doesnt mean she wanted to have the baby - im sure she didnt have rape me tatooed across her face that day either ..... <_<

[Busyman]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@12 January 2004 - 23:10
@ sheila - i agree with what you have been sayign about putting a child before that of a husband

- i personally think that men in this thread should stop talking about the husband providing for the family - maybe the mother would do it ...... <_<

the husband should consider what the wife would be going through - many of you have been saying that you would make the mother choose between you or the child - what gives you the right to make her choose ?


and just because the woman didnt take the morning after pill doesnt mean she wanted to have the baby - im sure she didnt have rape me tatooed across her face that day either ..... <_<
1. The costs to the wife ultimately translate to the husband.

2. The right to make her choose is called divorce.

3. If MAP is readily available (and it is especially in rape cases) then she sure "didn&#39;t mind" getting pregnant (to put mildly).

[Gemby!]

maybe she was suffering emotionally and didnt think about wether she was pregnant or not

when i said i dont think he has the right to make her choose i didnt mean a thing called divorce i meant that he is making her choose between him or a child - making her have more presuure than she needs to deal with

maybe he is a bum and dont got a job

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Originally posted by hobbes@12 January 2004 - 21:26


In a real life scenario, the woman would have been taken to the hospital immediately and given the pill to prevent a pregnacy from occuring. Could you at this time have the emotional control to tell them "no", I will let nature take its course?


In defence and to thro that statement out the window, in the prog and often IRL the woman did&#39;nt tell anyone for days, she went in hiding, as many women do, how many women are out there who have been sexually assaulted and never told a soul?

@Cowsy....In all honesty I have to agree with Hobbes and say I&#39;m suprised this was&#39;nt the reaction of all women who read this, but this thread has certainly been an eye opener for me.

Thankyou all, especially the girls for staying calm and speaking their mind on such an emotive subject :)

Jonno B)

[UKMan]

Originally posted by Busyman+12 January 2004 - 22:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 12 January 2004 - 22:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@12 January 2004 - 22:26
It has been my experience that rape is one of the most emotionally devasating experiences a woman can endure. The desire of this woman to have the baby just seems to go against everything I have observed. Most women seem to wretch at the thought of a rapists seed growing inside them.

In a real life scenario, the woman would have been taken to the hospital immediately and given the pill to prevent a pregnacy from occuring. Could you at this time have the emotional control to tell them "no", I will let nature take its course?



My sentiments exactly&#33;&#33;&#33;


edit: UKMan was probably busy yelling on a megaphone outside about his brother getting more chocalate cake than he did. :cry1: :sad1: :cry1: :sad1: :cry1: [/b][/quote]
What a funny little man you are - i hear everyone laughing too.

btw - i dont have a brother - now try my sister instead.... oh, i dont have one&#33;

do you want to continue your silly attacks :)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 January 2004 - 00:32
In defence and to thro that statement out the window, in the prog and often IRL the woman did&#39;nt tell anyone for days, she went in hiding, as many women do, how many women are out there who have been sexually assaulted and never told a soul?


Your point is valid Jonno, and I don&#39;t want to nit pick the issue, but the woman in question was married. Certainly her Husband would know, especially since most anonymous rapists beat the crap out of their victims or kill them.

It is true that in the "date rape" scenario I can see this happeneing. Many factors have to be dealt with. Yes, the boyfriend did wrong, yes it was against your will, but do you really want that person imprisoned. After all, you liked the person to some degree, and you never felt like he would batter or kill you. Maybe you did tease him, too much, maybe you deserved it (these are the thoughts of guilt which go through peoples minds when stressed). These are the women who slink off on their own to suffer, and they are, of course, single.

I just wanted to refine the scenario, a little. I just can&#39;t see any woman in the scenario of an annoymous rapist even considering keeping the pregnancy and not reporting immediately to the police or hospital.

Now, if she were fooling around at the office and got "date raped" by an out-of-line co-worker, this would open up a whole new can of worms.

[Skweeky]

I just can&#39;t believe that in a topic like this, someone starts to flame.

You are a sad sad person busyman. You really are. This is a serious topic and instead of respecting this you bring your petty stupid problems with another board member into it. It&#39;s just gross.



For those it may concern;
Yes, I am pissed because of that. Why? I have been raped, and no, I didn&#39;t get pregnant, but it IS a sensitive topic for me, which is why I didn&#39;t reply, until now.

A lot of women go through this, maybe think about that next time you decide to post one of your stupid replies.



Sonja

[ang3968]

rape is one of the most demoralising traumatic things that can happen to a person and it&#39;s not something you get over after the bruising has faded.
most females would have the option of a MAP offered to them if they get some kind of medical help... if they report it.... a lot of females don&#39;t report it...

I don&#39;t think I could have the child of a rapist.... I would take the pill in a flash... and if it wasn&#39;t offered to me then abortion would be my answer....
I wouldn&#39;t jeopardise my life with my husband whom I chose to spend the rest of my life with over a child that would always be a reminder of the most horrible moment in my life.
But religion does come into it.... I am not a devout Catholic that considers abortion murder.... I don&#39;t know how I would deal with it if I was...

this is only my opinion... and I have this opinion because of my life experiences...
there will never be a clear cut answer to this kind of question as everyones life experiences are so varied... those that have never lived thru an experience like this will not realise the extent of the trauma and those that have will struggle to deal with it for a long time...

[JONNO_CELEBS]

@Skweeks........Oh sweetheart, I&#39;m so sorry.........I&#39;m actually doing my best to stay calm and not say what I want to out of pure respect for certain members such as yourself, but I wish I had never asked this question, I hate the thought of any man hitting a woman let alone violating her in such a horrific manner , it infuriates me more than anything, I&#39;ve sat and listend to several girls this has happend to and it&#39;s had me in tears, mix of sadness and fury.

Just ignor the simple comments of insensitive people ok

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((sonja)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

@Hobbes........It&#39;s not always the case for a woman to be beaten by an attacker, in the same instance it&#39;s not date-rape, the case in the soap she had bruises to her legs and a cut on her arm, it happend in a pub as she was closing, she told her husband she cut her arm on broken glass and he did&#39;nt see her legs as she hid them from him.
So it&#39;s very possible that he had no idea whatsoever, and it&#39;s not the sort of thing a husband instantly thinks of if his wife is a bit odd.

Jonno B)

Edit:

@Ang.........Thankyou, very very well said........you put into words what I have tried to say.
As I&#39;ve said many times in this thread that this is horrific, sadistic and extremely cowardly.
Unfortunately as you say, many women do not report it and the man walks free to do it again and again, I can understand to some extend the feeling of humiliation that these women must feel and my heart truely goes out to them but I wish they could find the strength to report it right away.
Altho I have a small idea of how it feels.

[Skweeky]

no no Jonno, it&#39;s good these things are discussed and I love to read peoples views on it, I just think it&#39;s terrible when someone posts a reply like busyman did, it&#39;s totally disrespectful. <_< I simply had to reply to that :)

[hobbes]

Jonno,

As a male, I turn the question over to the ladies on this, is the scenario viable to you?

As you said before, this thread has been an eye opener. The number of people who have come forward to say that they have been raped is the mind-numbing aspect. I put this in the league with, "yeah, I killed a man once".

My most sincere sympathies to the ladies, as Jonno says, it does fill me with a sense of rage, which is so much more unbearable because I can&#39;t do anything to undo what has been done or punish the guilty.

[UKMan]

I wasnt going to reply again to the topic in question simply because i dont feel adequate enough or even qualified enough to do so. But i would like to congratulate first and foremost those women/girls who have stepped forward to tell the most intimate and private things about their lives on this board - whatever the views of these women is their own personal one based on their own experiences of course and who am i to contradict or even question that?

Also i want to congratulate Jonny for having posted this topic in the first place.. maybe it has helped someone here heal a bit more or even understand a bit more about this terrible crime.

Most of the males here have been extremely good and kept the topic on question without arguing or flaming - with the exception of one - and for that i&#39;m sure everyone is gratefull.

Peace
UKMan

[JONNO_CELEBS]

It&#39;s about at this point in the last conversation I had that male testostorone took over :rolleyes:

I really can&#39;t express the way I feel about this subject without seriously demeaning myself as a calm man.

I can only hope and pray that someday this kind of thing will stop but alas I doubt it :(

Thats the way of the world and it&#39;s truely a very sad vindictive world we live in.

I find it more disturbing that it has happend to so many people I know and care about, and feel a sense of guilt for not being abale to prevent it in someway, I know thats a stupid thing to say but it&#39;s just the way I feel.
I just hope that the saying of "What goes round, comes round" is true for these cowards, these insignificant pieces of shit that walk this planet with no guilt nor feeling for the lives they have destroyed.

Jonno B)

Edit: @Ukman........Thankyou and well said, I&#39;m very pleased that this topic has been delt with for the most part in a sensitive way, and IF it has helped anyone in anyway, even the smallest amount then I have acheived something incredible, on the other hand if it has reopend buried memories for anyone then I am truely sorry and give my deepest apologies for doing so.

[ang3968]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 January 2004 - 10:45

Edit:

@Ang.........Thankyou, very very well said........you put into words what I have tried to say.
As I&#39;ve said many times in this thread that this is horrific, sadistic and extremely cowardly.
Unfortunately as you say, many women do not report it and the man walks free to do it again and again, I can understand to some extend the feeling of humiliation that these women must feel and my heart truely goes out to them but I wish they could find the strength to report it right away.
Altho I have a small idea of how it feels.
Jonno a lot of women... and men... don&#39;t report it for the simple reason it drags the experience out longer for them...

if it is a stranger rape case, the chances of finding the person is slim unless he is a serial rapist....

and then once found the victim has to go thru a shocking court case if the guy doesn&#39;t admit guilt..... and these court cases can happen months and even sometimes years later....

in some ways I was lucky....(and that is how I deal with it)... I wasn&#39;t old enough to fall pregnant.... and even tho we knew who the person was the adults in my life decided it was easier not to report it and make me re-live it thru a court case...

if I were to live thru it again as an adult then I would take it all the way through the court system... and I could not have a child as a result of it... there is no way I would put my husband, myself or my children from our relationship through something like that...

[Skweeky]

Yeah, it is really hard to bring a thing out like this in the open.

My case was sort of the same, my mother decided it would be best not to make a big thing out of it as it was the son of people we knew...
Actually, my family is still denying it happened :lol:

But, I&#39;m mainly over it, I don&#39;t think I&#39;ll ever forget it, and I still have issues to deal with, but it&#39;s getting better all the time. It made me stronger, and I wouldn&#39;t be the person I am today if it hadn&#39;t happened. That&#39;s how I deal with it; I keep thinking of the good things that came out of it...Of course I am not grateful or anything, but I have dealt with the negative side (well, mainly), it still keeps me busy every now and then, but it doesn&#39;t stop me from being happy :)


As to reply to the original question:

I don&#39;t know what I&#39;d do. In se I couldn&#39;t do an abortion, but I don&#39;t know how I&#39;d feel about a baby that was conceived by a man who has done such a thing to me...When I try to imagine that, I don&#39;t think I could keep it, but I&#39;m not sure about that at all.

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Oh not you too Ang:( :(

What is wrong with this fucking planet and the people on it?????????

Why??

What is it??

Power?

Ok, so you girls keep comming clean, I said I have some small understanding of this.......very smal by comparison, I was not raped, I was mawled at the age of 8 by a fat ugly coward of a pathetic man who I see at least twice a week around town, I got away, I hit him with my football boots I was carrying and ran.........the if&#39;s but&#39;s and why&#39;s have been done, I got home to my mother crying and she eventually got it out of me what happend, the man was caught the next time he done it....someone saw him, he got 6 months and a rehab programme.
He spoke to me a while ago......his exact words "Hello Jon, how about you let me have a feel now you&#39;re big".......well I am quite a bit bigger now, put it this way, he crosses the street now.

So I can relate to some very small degree of the humiliation felt by these women.

Jonno B)

[Lilmiss]

Originally posted by ang3968@13 January 2004 - 01:08
but I wish they could find the strength to report it right away.

I was in a foreign place, very young and unsure of how the law worked in that kind of situation. On top of that he followed me around for the remainder of my holiday telling me he was going to find me and marry me.

After such an event, anyone&#39;s head would be screwed up, and the easiest way for me (and many) to deal with it was put it to the back of your mind and pretend to yourself it never happened. I know now this is an impossible thing to do.

For those it has happened to, I would suggest councilling as soon as possible.
I couldn&#39;t force myself to have sex for years afterwards, it hurt so badly as i would tense up to a point of it being unenjoyable. Nobody should go through it alone, and the partner, if there is one should only give support until she has made her decisions.

[Sh1t_H4pp3nz]

well hello Jonno...long time no see.... http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/teufel/devil-smiley-029.gif how have you been buddy?? :) anyways its in our nature as humans to do things we normally wouldn&#39;t do....e.g. pregnancy through assualt/rape....ask any biologist and they will tell you that its caused by a chemical inbalance.....unless the guy is a asshole and dont care :D .....neways i think it would be horrible to go through that...i was a baby resulting from rape myself, so my mother (RIP) would of gone through that :(

[ang3968]

oh snap Skweeky

I believe it made me a stronger person too... made me the me I am now...

it happened to me 25 yrs ago and unluckily for me it was my mothers boyfriend at the time... it went on for approx 2 yrs before I plucked up the courage to say something....

it does get easier with time... I have dealt with it... it&#39;s not something I will ever forget but I keep it in perspective... and now 25 yrs later I can discuss it without it causing me any problems.... I will still have a good day today even tho I have talked about it....

Jonno.... no matter how small the incident it is still a traumatic experience.... male or female... it does change the way you see things and the way you feel.... and therefore you do have an understanding of what anyone goes thru

and thank you for sharing... :)

[Sh1t_H4pp3nz]

i would like to hear the male prospective about this....what the males feelings are about getting assulted by a female.....

[JONNO_CELEBS]

@lilmiss......You&#39;re right, to go thru something like that alone must be horrific and I hope and pray that anyone this does happen to that they have support from loved ones.

@SH......I have no intention of flamming you, especially in this thread, thankyou for your input and I am sorry for what happend to your mother, I hope you have/can find peace.

@Ang....Least I could do is tell my story under the circumstances.

What happend to you is probably one of the hardest things for a family to deal with (this is assumption) and I could not possibly comprehend what that does/done to you and your mother.

@SH.....in answer to your question above.....this happens a lot too and I think it&#39;s something that can be very traumatic for the male, usually this incident is pupatrated to young males, young teens or pre teens, but could not really offer an opinion as to what it would do to my mind.

Jonno B)

[Sh1t_H4pp3nz]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 January 2004 - 19:39
@lilmiss......You&#39;re right, to go thru something like that alone must be horrific and I hope and pray that anyone this does happen to that they have support from loved ones.

@SH......I have no intention of flamming you, especially in this thread, thankyou for your input and I am sorry for what happend to your mother, I hope you have/can find peace.

@Ang....Least I could do is tell my story under the circumstances.

What happend to you is probably one of the hardest things for a family to deal with (this is assumption) and I could not possibly comprehend what that does/done to you and your mother.

@SH.....in answer to your question above.....this happens a lot too and I think it&#39;s something that can be very traumatic for the male, usually this incident is pupatrated to young males, young teens or pre teens, but could not really offer an opinion as to what it would do to my mind.

Jonno B)
why thank you Jonno :)

[Gemby!]

well i thought i would post it - someone in my area just got raped by someone which is really scary - but my dad says he will walk me round to the bus stop :)

hes great :P

and i would also like to say that to people in the board who have been through any type of situation relating to this topic - i repect you all for sharing what happened and your kinda amazing for recovering from it :P :">

[RGX]

Lilmiss, Squeeky, Ang and others, I feel for you, I really honestly do and I am shocked and appauled by the actions of some men in this world. I have total respect for the courage it took to get through, and afterwards talk on a public forum about what happened. :)