Ok Religion

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Several threads come up, for and against etc

Well I would like to hear both sides in 1 thread.

Remember this is a debate not a fight :)

The 1 major reason for me going off religion even tho I have been christened and used to go to church (yes I know :rolleyes: ) is WAR.......95% of wars boil down to religion.

WW1
WW2
Vietnam
Gulf
And countless wars before them

When it comes down to it it's peoples beliefs that make them fight

A TV show in the uk has just been cancelled because the host said that Arabs kill for their god, they kill inocent people (those were not his words but thats basically what he said)
Which for the most part is true, suicide bombers etc
Last week a man walked into a pub and sprayed 23 people with some form of acid because he believed they were against his god.......WTF???

Surley it's a persons right to believe what ever they want and no one should be able to say different.......Ok I am here but only because certain religions harm inocent people and murder for no reason at all!!!

Please do not flame! :)

This is just my own opinion and if anyone is offended then I apologise in advance :)

Jonno B)

[WeeMouse]

I don't do religion anymore. I was born and raised a catholic, but when i went to secondary school i started to have doubts.

People were brought in to talk to us about pregnancy and stuff, and their line of argument was "Having a baby out of marriage. Contraception is wrong too"

When asked how we could prevent having babies if we didn't use contraception, this was basically the reply:

"well, you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage anyway. And when you marry, you start a family. Condoms and the pill aren't 100% effective anyway, and it's wrong to deny a chance of life"

I just thought that in this day and age, teaching kids NOT to use contraception and such things is wrong. AND i was born out of wedlock so i am a bad person in the eyes of the lord.

I will beleive in God if he does something nice for me. Maybe a pay rise or something.

[Lamsey]

I've plastered my beliefs around here enough that I don't think they need voiced again ;)

One thing I would say is that religion isn't always the cause for war, but it is often the excuse for it.

[Marius24]

I am very religous, just dont show it and nobody notices, they proberly dont care either.

I do believe in a god but i think hes more of a friend then a 'god' :)

[namzuf9]

I used to be a follower of the christian faith a few years back. I wasn't brought up to believe in any religion. I cant even remember when it was I decided I was a christian.

I lost my "faith" about 6 years ago after watching my best friend get stabbed and dying in my ex's flat. The months that followed that opened up my eyes to my blind faith. I started to think that if there was some Omnipotent entity then it must be some kind of sick f*ck. I started to take in all the facts of evolution and the creation of the universe inside of mentally ignoring or disregarding the facts.

Anyways now I'm an atheist but I'm not against personal religion. It helps people deal with their lives. Organised religion is another matter but if I get onto that subject I'll be here all night!

[Mr. Mulder]

I've never believed in any form of Religion, its an excuse. People see other people who are worse of than them and feel safe in the knoledge that the worse they have it down here, the better they'll have it in heaven, when the truth is they'll be six feet under like the rest of us. Religion and the theory of an ultimat good and evil is often a cause of nothing being done in the first place. Instead of thinking that there's a god who has a plan for us all, people should make there own plans and stop waiting for something that will never happen.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Lamsey@18 January 2004 - 19:36

One thing I would say is that religion isn't always the cause for war, but it is often the excuse for it.
A very good point.

What i really find unreasonable is that for those that believe in God argue over the manner in which he is worshiped, it shouldn't matter which religion you practice. It kind of reminds me of the followers of Brian argueing as to which to follow as the sign...the gourd or the sandal.

I am one that doubts the existance of God but i don't deny it as i could be wrong.

[JONNO_CELEBS]

What makes me laugh is the fact that most religions will deny the existence of Satan :blink:

If there really is a god then why can't there be a Devil??

2 sayings, one from an old mate of mine and one from a film.

1= If you talk to god then you are praying, if god talks back you are insane!

2= The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he does not exsist

there are so many arguments for and against but very few people can provide any evidence.

I remember 2 days after 9/11 I had 2 people knock on my door, JW's, they started preaching to me, I asked them if god exsists why did he let such a thing happen?........One of them replied "It's the lords way of culling because we are ravishing the earth" :angry: :angry: At that point I lost my temper and said several things I probably should'nt have but that is so wrong to say such a thing.

And THAT is my point, religion only cares about it's own, everyone and thing else is expendable!!

Jonno B)

[sparsely]

my feet and hands
the grass and dirt and sky
yesterday, today and you and I.

aside from those, I know nothing.

[Gemby!]

i guess im kinda religious but im not a fanatic about the whole religious thing. i think i believe in a god and stuff like that but i dont believe all that stuff written in the bible.

i believe that we all control our future and life is what you want it to be ( or something like that !)

i dont agree with many people about their religions but im not going to stop them, as they can believe what they want. one thing that realoly does annoy me is this thing between catholics and protestants, and how one is better than the other, as i find this one of the most stupid things ever.

and this thing that some religions have against abortion and contrception - i think that using Contraception should be encouraged because telling people not to use it can result in many problems , more than it would of when they first thought of that rule. Abortion i feel should only be used in emergency cases where the mum has been raped or something along those lines.

and these people who do the suicide bombing are prats - they dont care about their religion , they are just sick people.

i would like to think that their is a heaven, somewhere where when i die there will be a nice place where i can ''live'' forever... but i doubt it , which is kinda depressing.

and sorry about my bad explanations - im not too good at explaining myself through typing ....or speaking :P

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@18 January 2004 - 18:26
WAR.......95% of wars boil down to religion.


Yes there have been many problems related to religion. However, the fault lies in the people rather than the religion. Human beings are easily corrupted though thoughts of power and reverence and indeed in many instances they abuse thier given power. i believe that alot of the problems with religions come from misunderstandings on a human level, e.g. no, my god is the only god and so on.

I think that the closer one is to there god the more they understand that there are no fundemental differences between the religions, the difference lies in the people who say they are close to god but in actual fact are not even slighlty close.

I hope that makes some sence

[TARPD]

i believe god probably doesnt exist but the bible is a rule book we should follow. in the last 100 or so years many of the lessons have been lost. evolution and stuff like that have been disproven but back then that was the only thing they could think of for creation. the whole sex and marriage thing has changed with contraception but i still believe people shouldnt have kids till theyre marriage.

people do often get religious about war and death cos no-one wants to believe thats the end of it all. thats why theres religious fanatics who blow themselves up because they are convinced god will be pleased with them. IMO anyway

[TARPD]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@18 January 2004 - 22:29
i believe that alot of the problems with religions come from misunderstandings on a human level, e.g. no, my god is the only god and so on.

just a quick note: catholics, jews and muslims all believe in the same god ;)


a lot of people dont realise that

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by t3h1337n355@18 January 2004 - 22:31
i believe god probably doesnt exist


probably is the right work to use, because even if there were a god (i don't like the term god but it serves a purpose) he/she would not be shouting it around for everyone to hear, people should make thier own conclusions from thier own experience.

[Gemby!]

just have to add that i think marriage before marriage should be tried at least and that you shouldnt hurry to have sex :P

or something like that anyway

[TARPD]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+18 January 2004 - 22:36--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 18 January 2004 - 22:36)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-t3h1337n355@18 January 2004 - 22:31
i believe god probably doesnt exist


probably is the right work to use, because even if there were a god (i don&#39;t like the term god but it serves a purpose) he/she would not be shouting it around for everyone to hear, people should make thier own conclusions from thier own experience. [/b][/quote]
i say probably cos i know i would turn into a good christian on my death bed. i&#39;ve heard you go to hell if you doubt his/her existence

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by t3h1337n355+18 January 2004 - 22:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (t3h1337n355 @ 18 January 2004 - 22:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@18 January 2004 - 22:29
i believe that alot of the problems with religions come from misunderstandings on a human level, e.g. no, my god is the only god and so on.

just a quick note: catholics, jews and muslims all believe in the same god ;)


a lot of people dont realise that [/b][/quote]
they all believe in one god im not sure if everyone following those religions would agree with your statement

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by t3h1337n355+18 January 2004 - 22:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (t3h1337n355 @ 18 January 2004 - 22:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@18 January 2004 - 22:36
<!--QuoteBegin-t3h1337n355@18 January 2004 - 22:31
i believe god probably doesnt exist


probably is the right work to use, because even if there were a god (i don&#39;t like the term god but it serves a purpose) he/she would not be shouting it around for everyone to hear, people should make thier own conclusions from thier own experience.
i say probably cos i know i would turn into a good christian on my death bed. i&#39;ve heard you go to hell if you doubt his/her existence [/b][/quote]
laws made by humans not by god :)

[Busyman]

I am a convert from Islam to Christian (nondenomination).

I&#39;ve looked at many religions

Shintoism+
Confucianism+
Islam
Catholism=
Nation Of Islam*
Many denominations of Christian
Jehovah&#39;s Witness=
Mormon*=
White Christian Soldiers*=
Buddhism+
Judaism*

I eliminated a number of them for having flat out racist beliefs.*
Others for having weird rules taught by the parishoners by not supported by the books they are supposedly following.=
Some were just a little light on religion and just somewhat rules to live by (with no real connection to GOD.+

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Busyman@18 January 2004 - 23:40
Buddhism+

rules to live by (with no real connection to GOD.+
like i said in my earlier post
the closer one is to thier god the better they understand it Buddhism is a way of getting closer to god, only the method differs, they try to achieve the highest level of consiousness (enlightenment). Trying to become god is unobtainable but trying to become Buddha is an achievable aim for a human in a lifetime. Once at this level they say there is a realisation of oneness. In essence you realise there is no difference between you and god.



I&#39;ve looked at many religions

From what perspective have you looked, your own which might not be the same as some peoples.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Busyman@18 January 2004 - 23:40
I am a convert from Islam to Christian (nondenomination).


a genuine question busyman.
if you leave the islamic faith isn&#39;t there supposed to be a holy death sentence pronounce on you ? something about if you are not with me then you are against me (please forgive my ignorance in this matter)
i ask because the topic was raised about imran khans wife when she converted to islam from christianity

[CoolMac]

never did religion will never do

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@19 January 2004 - 01:24

I&#39;ve looked at many religions

From what perspective have you looked, your own which might not be the same as some peoples.
:blink:
My own of course. :blink: :blink: :blink:

[Busyman]

Originally posted by vidcc+19 January 2004 - 04:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 19 January 2004 - 04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@18 January 2004 - 23:40
I am a convert from Islam to Christian (nondenomination).


a genuine question busyman.
if you leave the islamic faith isn&#39;t there supposed to be a holy death sentence pronounce on you ? something about if you are not with me then you are against me (please forgive my ignorance in this matter)
i ask because the topic was raised about imran khans wife when she converted to islam from christianity [/b][/quote]
uh..no

[vidcc]

leaving Islam (http://www.prometheusbooks.com/site/catalog/book_1308.html)

busyman this might be of interest, i do appreciate that it is more to do with custom, extreme belief and in all honesty doesn&#39;t really apply to most of the followers of Islam.
it was just something i read about in passing concerning a marriage to the famous cricketer.

[evildon]

Okay..I have studied and read and thought and pondered...Here it goes..well first hopefully some of you read my other post about differnet theories about the exsistence of God that have entered my head...

and for those of you who take the Bible Literally go and Check out theskepticsannotatedbible.com..not spam justa thought provoking site about the bible and God...

I think there is some sentient conciousness above ours...I dont think it really knows/has/experiences feelings like love hate envy etc...like we do..it wouldn&#39;t..couldnt..our emotions derive from our life experiences..being turned down for a date...getiing laid...parties..dissapointment..etc...a being able to create the physical laws of our universe would not have experienced any of this..so we would have a problem comunicating right there...Anytime you give God a human like emotion then thats where I think we go wrong..His "Love" would not be like ours..cancer? Why would he cure your cancer he isnt concerned about your body..just your immortal soul,,,well according to Christians..I dont think he&#39;s concerned about anything. (that we would really ever be able to understand) .concern is an emotion...a HUMAN emotion..God isnt human..ergo his emotions would be drastically different...God is so far above us that in order to fully comprehend him..we would have to become him..and not be human anymore

I believe that the organized religions were made by humans searching for answers and were like blind people trying to determine what an Elephant is without ever hearing what one was...(old analogy..)

So God is for all intents and purposes an Alien..by the very defintion of the word..Not of this world..he was before it therefore not of it...Not human...Alien by the very defintion of the word means not able to be comprehended..

I cant worship something that can&#39;t be comprehended...If i was a Christian and read the Bible and believed all of it..I STILL don&#39;t think i could worship a God that tells David to dash babies heads upon a rock...and has bears kill children for making fun of someones bald head..or says that its okay to stone your kids for talking back to you...FEAR HIM? HELL YES&#33;&#33; worship him? No....

ED

[Busyman]

Originally posted by vidcc@19 January 2004 - 06:42
leaving Islam (http://www.prometheusbooks.com/site/catalog/book_1308.html)

busyman this might be of interest, i do appreciate that it is more to do with custom, extreme belief and in all honesty doesn&#39;t really apply to most of the followers of Islam.
it was just something i read about in passing concerning a marriage to the famous cricketer.
and where is all of this in the Qu&#39;ran?............

It stinks of the same rationale behind the jehad against all Americans. <_<

[ZeroTolerance]

Divernal Cycle


Morning-adolence-renewel-youth-spring

Afternoon-noon-prime of life maturity-summer

twight noon-falling years,downhill-fall

Night-old age death, dark-winter

It means life starts all over after you die reincarnation :ghostface:

[imported_computerfreak76]

there is an old saying

if you dont believe in anything, you will fall for everything(which i dont agree with)

i was raised baptist and i went to a baptist church from the time i was a young child until i was 13 or 14. i quit going when i started to doubt the existence of jesus and god.

in my opinion religion was originally created to give people something to live for and to look forward to after death. how many people in the world would want to live and try to live a good life knowing their wasnt anything to look forward to after death?

but i really think people dont want to accept the truth, and the truth being that there is nothing after death, and people cant handle accepting the responsiblities of life on their own and place their lives in "gods" hands, asking "him" for advice and how to live.

but if you want to believe in a god or a religion im all for it, if it can make your life better than what it is now or make you feel like a better person then go for it.

i can see why alot of people turn to religion, it does get depressing knowing that as soon as your born that your going to die and thats all, nothing happening after you die.

honestly i wish my mind wasnt as open as it was and i could be one of these people that have 100% faith in god and heaven and all that nice stuff.

instead im faced with the reality that my existence means nothing and that i will die and that there is nothing after death and that i was born to die.

so ive created my own religion and its called "the jamie&#39;s do whatever makes you happy religion" and its all about being happy, to me happiness is the secret to life, if you cant be happy with your life or what you do in life then there is no point in living at all. so whatever you like to do that makes you happy do it, no matter if this society says its wrong or that person says its wrong. JUST BE HAPPY&#33;. you only get to live once so fuck what anyone else says about you and what you do and just do whatever makes you the happiest.

[ZeroTolerance]

Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 January 2004 - 07:14
there is an old saying

if you dont believe in anything, you will fall for everything(which i dont agree with)

i was raised baptist and i went to a baptist church from the time i was a young child until i was 13 or 14. i quit going when i started to doubt the existence of jesus and god.

in my opinion religion was originally created to give people something to live for and to look forward to after death. how many people in the world would want to live and try to live a good life knowing their wasnt anything to look forward to after death?

but i really think people dont want to accept the truth, and the truth being that there is nothing after death, and people cant handle accepting the responsiblities of life on their own and place their lives in "gods" hands, asking "him" for advice and how to live.

but if you want to believe in a god or a religion im all for it, if it can make your life better than what it is now or make you feel like a better person then go for it.

i can see why alot of people turn to religion, it does get depressing knowing that as soon as your born that your going to die and thats all, nothing happening after you die.

honestly i wish my mind wasnt as open as it was and i could be one of these people that have 100% faith in god and heaven and all that nice stuff.

instead im faced with the reality that my existence means nothing and that i will die and that there is nothing after death and that i was born to die.

so ive created my own religion and its called "the jamie&#39;s do whatever makes you happy religion" and its all about being happy, to me happiness is the secret to life, if you cant be happy with your life or what you do in life then there is no point in living at all. so whatever you like to do that makes you happy do it, no matter if this society says its wrong or that person says its wrong. JUST BE HAPPY&#33;. you only get to live once so fuck what anyone else says about you and what you do and just do whatever makes you the happiest.
are you depressed?

[imported_computerfreak76]

not at all

ive accepted life for what it is and im trying to just be happy

[Spindulik]

Originally posted by WeeMouse@18 January 2004 - 14:39
I don&#39;t do religion anymore. I was born and raised a catholic, but when i went to secondary school i started to have doubts.

People were brought in to talk to us about pregnancy and stuff, and their line of argument was "Having a baby out of marriage. Contraception is wrong too"

When asked how we could prevent having babies if we didn&#39;t use contraception, this was basically the reply:

"well, you shouldn&#39;t have sex outside of marriage anyway. And when you marry, you start a family. Condoms and the pill aren&#39;t 100% effective anyway, and it&#39;s wrong to deny a chance of life"

I just thought that in this day and age, teaching kids NOT to use contraception and such things is wrong. AND i was born out of wedlock so i am a bad person in the eyes of the lord.

I will beleive in God if he does something nice for me. Maybe a pay rise or something.
I too was born and raised Catholic. I agree with what you say. But now this religion stuff is too bogus for me. Whenever the "invisible guy" make an appearance, then I&#39;ll start believing.

If God knows everything, then he knew that 911 was going to happen thousands of years before it happened. What did God do as it happened? Sit back and watch? No hard feelings, he had plenty of time to prepare himself for the show. It wasn&#39;t like he didn&#39;t know the outcome.

Anyone can create a religion. Get enough gullible people for long enough time, the religion becomes real. The Reverend Jim Jones did a fine job.


Search Yahoo for Farting Preacher. Who is this guy? God actually speaks to him saying that he needs people to donate &#036;1,000.00 to his church.


In my opinion, religion served its purpose when it was needed when no explanations of the worldly forces were available, before modern research. Religion was also a good excuse to keep the people good, away from criminal activity. The Catholic church was, and is, run like a government.


It can take one second for God to save a cancer patient, or many months of medical treatment from trained doctors. I have yet seen God jump into action and save a person or child. The Bible talks of such occurrences, but nothing has surfaced these days, when needed.


Listen to George Carlin&#39;s view on religion. He does make sense.

[human_pet]

I&#39;ve been a muslim from birth.I did&#39;nt know much about my religion even though I studied and still studying in an Islamic School (Madrasah) untill I finally taken the initiative to read about religion (mine and others). Of course i&#39;ve read my religion first and then others,like Christianity and Judaism,I still have much to read about other religions like budhism and hinduism and so on.But right now,i&#39;m satisfied with my religion,not because I was born a muslim but it was because i&#39;ve read about it and from what i&#39;ve read and researched, Islam is a logical religion for me . There are so many interpretions of Islam by many people both musims and non-muslims,but to me I like to take the moderate way and not the most lenient nor the strictest of em all like the Prophet said in one of his Hadith "Those who are strict in following the religion can never follow it correctly" and btw in replyance(is there such a word?) to the one who said "that if one get&#39;s out of islam one shall face a death penalty and said that it is in the koran" is wrong,it is even said in the Koran "There shall be NO compulsion in religion ,truth stands out from wrong..." and"If God had wished,all people on earth would have become beleivers,will you (Muhammad) then compel all people to become beleivers?" 10:99.Maybe you were talking about the hadith witch says to wage war against those who apostate,scholars differ on the meaning of the arabic word of it,some say it means those who leaves Islam others say those who are treacherous in peace deals or such.


Oh yeah to those who wants to understand Islam more further,search for a book in your local community library which has the title" Understanding the Quran Themes and Styles" by Muhammad Abdel Haleem,it helped me understand Islam more I hope It&#39;ll help you.

Peace :)

[dwightfry]

I always believed there was nothing after death. Then I read about this. (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=93370&st=60&#entry822100)

I still question a lot, but this kinda makes sense to me.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 January 2004 - 07:27
ive accepted life for what it is and im trying to just be happy
Sounds good, accepting what you have and working for happiness is much better than fighting with what you have and constanly being unhappy.


If God knows everything, then he knew that 911 was going to happen thousands of years before it happened. What did God do as it happened? Sit back and watch? No hard feelings, he had plenty of time to prepare himself for the show. It wasn&#39;t like he didn&#39;t know the outcome.

So you blame god or you don&#39;t believe in him and this is how you justify it. Either way god is a concept that not many people on this planet understand, it could be argued that 911 happened because it was meant to, maybe to teach us about the preciousness of human life, maybe it was to teach us about suffering and why we should want to escape it. Trying to understand these actions i don&#39;t think is for us, what i believe humans should do is try to lead there lives as best as they can, whether by following a set of religious precepts or by helping the needy, or by trying to escape suffering. In doing this you create good karma, this may help you in this life or if you believe in it your next.

[Gemby!]

i sometimes think that religion gives people some sort of hope that life can be better than what it is now , and that as long as you follow certain rules you will end up somewhere better than here

personally i think life has no point - that there isnt gonna be a heaven or hell nor anything like reincarnation

life sux but you just gotta go through it no matter what <_<

[evildon]

there is a difference between a religion and a personal belief that you hold and live by....



ED

[Gemby!]

well then my religion is the * personal belief religion* <_<

[evildon]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+19 January 2004 - 19:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 19 January 2004 - 19:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-computerfreak76@19 January 2004 - 07:27
ive accepted life for what it is and im trying to just be happy
Sounds good, accepting what you have and working for happiness is much better than fighting with what you have and constanly being unhappy.


If God knows everything, then he knew that 911 was going to happen thousands of years before it happened. What did God do as it happened? Sit back and watch? No hard feelings, he had plenty of time to prepare himself for the show. It wasn&#39;t like he didn&#39;t know the outcome.

So you blame god or you don&#39;t believe in him and this is how you justify it. Either way god is a concept that not many people on this planet understand, it could be argued that 911 happened because it was meant to, maybe to teach us about the preciousness of human life, maybe it was to teach us about suffering and why we should want to escape it. Trying to understand these actions i don&#39;t think is for us, what i believe humans should do is try to lead there lives as best as they can, whether by following a set of religious precepts or by helping the needy, or by trying to escape suffering. In doing this you create good karma, this may help you in this life or if you believe in it your next. [/b][/quote]
I already know how prescious life is....

no more lessons for me thanks...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?

ED

[Gemby!]

if you believe in good karma and bad karma do you believe in reincarnatiion ?

[Spindulik]

Originally posted by evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.

[evildon]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@19 January 2004 - 22:33
if you believe in good karma and bad karma do you believe in reincarnatiion ?
I have came of with a concept ina Jung-like conciousness that surrounds the planet...much like a force-field or the magnetic field of the earth...


and when you die..your escence get caught up in that....and time to time if the conditions are right you can influence the earth bound people..I dont think u necessarily remeber who you are or really have an identity seperate from this collective anymore..I guess the ones who wouldnt join could come back..the ones that stay (according to this theory) in the collective could say influence a child prodigy to playa piano if they were a great pianist in their former life....and i dont think u personally choose to do this...you dont remeber your mama or your friends nothing like that..In this concept you would just be another natural force..just like the weather and just as random...

Jung worked on this and A lab in England? has done experiments with mice and it seems that they are recieveing data from some outside force..( they took two groups of mice....ran one group thru a mace repeatedly...till they new it...killed said mice..took second group which were related to first group(litter mates) and THEY RAN IT FASTER then the first group evn tho they had never seen it&#33; The second group hadnt died and been reborn so it wouldnt be reencarnation..closer to transmitted genetic memory) said mice were kept in seperated labs i believe more than a mile away))

We already know that elephants and other heard animals have GENETIC memory..thats passed down in the DNA


ED

[evildon]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@19 January 2004 - 22:29
well then my religion is the * personal belief religion* <_<
nothing wrong with that...most people turn their religion into a personal belief system just that it&#39;s a totally seperate thing...well not seperate but different..

[evildon]

Originally posted by Spindulik+19 January 2004 - 22:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 19 January 2004 - 22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot?&nbsp; Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God. [/b][/quote]
Let me go get my gun...then I&#39;ll shoot all the non-believers and pagans and heathens so that they too can appreciate what it feels like to get shot&#33;&#33; It will be a God-like lesson for them&#33;&#33;


I have always wanted a t-shirt that said

"I Kill For God..Don&#39;t worry as long as you truly believe your souls will go to Him"


ED

[Busyman]

Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.

[J'Pol]

I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.

I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.

If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.

I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.

[hobbes]

Forgive my memory Jpol, but does this God require one to follow a specific religion and what do you mean about the after-life. Is there a physical heavan (where one can experience pleasure and peace) and a physical hell (where you can experience pain) or do you see the "afterlife" as something you will figure out once you cross-over.

Are there repercussions for our actions and choice of faith. Our pagan forefathers who scarificed virgins to appease their Gods, are they all doomed for killing?

As I recall, your choice of Catholicism was not because it is the "correct" religion, but rather it provides a set of rules you feel encourages harmony. What God actually is or desires is not known to any man.

[J'Pol]

hobbes

Forgive me, I mean no offence.

I really do not wish to discuss this matter at any great length here and now. I simply wanted to give Jonno some concept of the basic underlying principals of what I believe in. The evolving minutiae can be for another day.

I think it is fair to say that you are aware I will give a reasonable shout at arguing most things, even if it gets fairly heated. However I have had enough Catholic bashing for the moment and really do not want to get involved in it just now.

Particularly as it is often no more than unsubtle trolling. (The bashing that is, not the Catholicism, tho&#39; I see your point). It seems that the Catholic faith is fair game for abuse that would not be tolerated were it aimed at others. However that is probably just my natural Papist paranoia.

I will however say that, in my opinion choice of a specific flavour of Christianity probably boils down to how comfortable one is with the dogma. As long as the decision is one of good conscience, rather of convenience.

[hobbes]

Ok, I was just curious what you envisioned the after life to be. You know, when you wake up at 4:00am and the wife is asleep next to you. As you watch her breathe, what do you envision awaiting you?

I see nothing.

As for Catholic bashing, I have an appreciation of your exhaustion, after all, I am American. I&#39;m lucky to survive a few posts without a volley of cheap shots sent my way.


note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it&#39;s all I can do to make a coherent offering.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Spindulik+19 January 2004 - 22:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 19 January 2004 - 22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot?&nbsp; Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God. [/b][/quote]
where exactly did i say that?

[ForbiddenDNA]

95% of war was caused by Religion?
I disagree.
It is caused by Satan.

The Satan is involve in all wars and religions.

[Wizard_Mon1]

As for shooting your self in the foot, i would prefer it if you didn&#39;t but i don&#39;t know gods will, if you do the it was mean&#39;t to happen for some reason. I&#39;m not saying that shooting yourself is good or that if there is a reason for you to do so that it is nice for you, i am just saying, how are we as humans supposed to understand what god intends.


I already know how prescious life is....

evildon i mean&#39;t no offence i was just trying to explain that there is a lesson to be learnt or something to be gained for every situation.

hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.

[Biggles]

I tend to agree with Lamsey and J&#39;Pol.

Religion is often a cloak adopted to cover naked tribalism.

The twisted acts carried out in the name of religion are more often at a personal level such as the tortures and murders carried out in the name of witch hunts, pogroms and ideological struggles (common to most faiths). Individuals, often with serious personality problems, play on the fears of others to twist words to their own ends or sometimes their fanatically held insanities.

I have no problem with Faith. I have noted that those who are at peace with their God (whoever and whatever they may perceive he or she to be) rarely have problems sharing communion with those of a differing faith. Those who demand you believe exactly as they do are a vexation to the spirit. imho

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 01:54

note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it&#39;s all I can do to make a coherent offering.
I sincerely hope that you will return to your ironic, humourous best in the very near future.

Can I suggest large quantities of fluids, ascorbic acid and rest may be just the ticket.

Or Lemsip Max Cold / Flu remedy, I always find that helps, paricularly with congestion problems.

Take Care of yourself, it doesn&#39;t make you a bad person.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Biggles@20 January 2004 - 02:11
I tend to agree with Lamsey and J&#39;Pol.

Religion is often a cloak adopted to cover naked tribalism.

The twisted acts carried out in the name of religion are more often at a personal level such as the tortures and murders carried out in the name of witch hunts, pogroms and ideological struggles (common to most faiths). Individuals, often with serious personality problems, play on the fears of others to twist words to their own ends or sometimes their fanatically held insanities.

I have no problem with Faith. I have noted that those who are at peace with their God (whoever and whatever they may perceive he or she to be) rarely have problems sharing communion with those of a differing faith. Those who demand you believe exactly as they do are a vexation to the spirit. imho
Please stop being so bloody eloquent.

It is annoying to the mere mortals around you.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+20 January 2004 - 01:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 20 January 2004 - 01:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 01:54

note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it&#39;s all I can do to make a coherent offering.
I sincerely hope that you will return to your ironic, humourous best in the very near future.

Can I suggest large quantities of fluids, ascorbic acid and rest may be just the ticket.

Or Lemsip Max Cold / Flu remedy, I always find that helps, paricularly with congestion problems.

Take Care of yourself, it doesn&#39;t make you a bad person. [/b][/quote]
Try boiling chopped ginger root to then drink it. It heats up your body so you can sweat the cold out.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 02:10

hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
I used to believe in re-incarnation, however that was in a previous life.

I&#39;ll get me coat.

[Biggles]

Sorry J&#39;Pol

I will get me coat. Have to chase the kids to bed anyhoo so that will get my feet back on the ground.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Why are you both getting your coats, are they that nice, if so where did you buy them?

[sArA]

Any organised religion is an attempt by people to explain and rationalise the unknown, give hope and to provide an exclusive &#39;club&#39; for its members.

If we can all agree that human beings exercise at least some modicum of free will (even allowing for brainwashing, indoctrination, brutalisation, fear...etc, etc) then the choice of religion whether it is one&#39;s own or an ancestors is just that...a choice.

If one believes that God

(please insert own deity here...........................................................................)

gave humans free will... then our choice of religion (or not) can be seen as an act of belief&#33;

(But I guess that might be stretching things a little :D )

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by sara5564@20 January 2004 - 01:31
...........................................................................)


(But I guess that might be stretching things a little&nbsp; :D )
yer i would have said ...............................

:lol:

Just to make this thread more relevant witch hunts were carred out only because the people in power didn&#39;t understand the witches, the were the &#39;unknown&#39;.

Not really that relevant at all... oh well. :sadwalk:

[Busyman]

I have found it interesting to research the way that certain religions have come about.

Example:

Nation Of Islam

I had some acquaintances in this so called "religion". Some things of note:

They believe Allah returned in America under the name Master Faraad Muhammed.
They believe all white people are devils.
They believe the devils name is Yacub. He created whites from deficient black genes and mixed it with animals. The rationale was that this is the reason that when whites sweat it smells of dog and they have very little backside (arse).
They believe the old white "tribes" started in the Caucus mountains hence the name Caucasian.
They believe whites, when they gained power, eliminated much of this "tribal" history. One asked me why are there African tribes and no history of Caucasian ones. :lol:
Elijah Muhammed (I forgot his original name) was converted when Master Faraad did some trick with his hair, splitting it water.
Master Faraard, oddly enough, wasn&#39;t even black. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


When you hear this sort of shit it makes you wonder how the hell anyone believes it.
Oddly enough there is no scripture in the Qu&#39;ran that backs this up. :lol: :lol:
What a joke.

I have gone through their own writings of their religion. I have done this with many others like Catholism, White Christian Soldiers, Jehovah&#39;s Witness&#39;, etc. I&#39;ve researched why, in certain religions, they wear the garb that they wear, use certain symbols and what they "really" stand for. I&#39;ve researched why certain religions are "semi-controlled" en masse by smaller groups of individuals who are and always have been corrupt. I&#39;ve researched the Christmas holiday and how it really came about.

Most people subscribe to a particular religion because it&#39;s all they&#39;ve ever known.
It&#39;s comfortable.

Research some of the underpinnings of a given religion. It may open your eyes.

Or like many, close them. ;)



edit: Left one interesting note...in the Nation of Islam..Yacub was black :lol: :lol:

[hobbes]

I was rude once, does that make me a "devil"?

My Saudi co-worker told me that true Islamic people have no relation to American black people calling themselves "the Nation of Islam".

[evildon]

Originally posted by Busyman@19 January 2004 - 23:01
Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.
Yes but that doesnt mean that the grass after being eaten by the cow and turned into energy and the deposited out remember that it was once grass...

I could be a caniabal and eat someone thereby converting them to energy for my body...doesnt mean that said energy remains sentient..and some amount is transformed into a by-product....

ED

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:31
I was rude once, does that make me a "devil"?

My Saudi co-worker told me that true Islamic people have not relation to American black people from calling themselves "the Nation of Islam".
Exactly&#33;&#33;&#33;
The "religion" is a joke. My uncle is a real Muslim and at the time that I studied Islam, he told me to stay clear of them.
Unfortunately, I know of similiar weirdness in other religions. Nation Of Islam was the easiest example to use due the probability of no one here being of that religion.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by evildon+20 January 2004 - 06:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evildon @ 20 January 2004 - 06:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@19 January 2004 - 23:01
Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.
Yes but that doesnt mean that the grass after being eaten by the cow and turned into energy and the deposited out remember that it was once grass...

I could be a caniabal and eat someone thereby converting them to energy for my body...doesnt mean that said energy remains sentient..and some amount is transformed into a by-product....

ED [/b][/quote]
uh...no

[hobbes]

God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
It&#39;s because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman+20 January 2004 - 06:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 20 January 2004 - 06:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
It&#39;s because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
Well, that does make sense.

If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better?

[evildon]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@20 January 2004 - 00:04
I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.

I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.

If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.

I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.
Ever seen Minority Report?


Two main things keep us from having tru FREE WILL..


1.Emotions:They cloud our judgement...we even have phrases for it...Seeing red..flying off the handle.loosing control....we do things under the influence of our hind brain(it&#39;s where our instincts and most of our more primal stuff come from) then we would normally do...Thats how alchol works...The vulcans on ST know this...it&#39;s common sense...just like if I had jury duty and my girlfriend was on trial...there is no way that I could shut down enuf of my prima emotion brain to be impartial and make the "right" choice...

Thats what Bhudda (SP&#33;) was all about..being at peace and as one with onesself..(sp&#33;)

He was approached about the sin of lust and asked about seeing a naked girl that she shouldnt show her body and stay covered..he disagreed..he said that the sin is in letting your emotions exsist..that you should be able to look at the most desireous girl in the world and not become arroused..not fight it but be able to turn it off like a light switch..that was one of his tests to see if you were on the road to becoming enlightened..at one with the universe...also you were spose to be in such control of your body u could stop your heart..things like thatHe thought to have true free will you would have to have complete mastery over...well YOU...no part of you should be able to make you do what you dont want to do...I have yaken Pysche classes..and let me tell you..your subconcious and your ego and your Id..are really powerful and sneaky bastards....Hell Pyche proffessors have found out that something as simple as a color of an object can influence our mood...(hospitals studied this so they would know what color to paint their walls) or a buying impulse...Hell they lay out shopping centers and stores based on choices that you dont even know you are making..&#33;We make choices on automatic all the time..subconsiously withour ANY true higher thinking...

2.This is where Minority report comes in

You would hafta know the true outcome of all the choices before you...If I go to bed now..and take some cold medicine will I sleep thru the fire that burns my house down...? since i dont know my house is gonna burn down then I cant really choose....Fate and Luck kills Free Will Everytime...Not enuf
data or control to override those two forces...


ED

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes+20 January 2004 - 06:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 20 January 2004 - 06:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
It&#39;s because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:
Well, that does make sense.

If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better? [/b][/quote]
Yeah but in the winter........back to evilness. ;)

[x_gimpg]

I didnt know mormons were racist :lol: Do they think all black people are devils or something stupid like that?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman+20 January 2004 - 06:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman &#064; 20 January 2004 - 06:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:53

Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
It&#39;s because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:
Well, that does make sense.

If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better?
Yeah but in the winter........back to evilness. ;)[/b][/quote]

Kind of interesting thought that tanning machines are here to conquer evil. Most people think that they are extensions of vanity, but I view them as a vehicle to keep my soul pure.

[Busyman]

Interesting then.......what the hell is Michael Jackson? :lol: :lol:

What about those with leukoderma? They are in constant flux with themselves. :lol:

[evildon]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@20 January 2004 - 00:04
I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.

I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.

If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.

I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.
Cure illnesses whats the point?..well fine but he did at one time..according to the Bible he meddled like Hell...with angels and voices and burning bushes...and Jesus cured people left and right why? If they serve some higher purpose why didnt Jesus just say "Hey this is meant to test your strenght..God has truly blessed you with a way for you to show Him how strong your faith in Him is..."

makes no sense....


Umm....hate to say this but God told David(among others) to go to War in the Bible...So youd havta believe that some wars are because of gods will...which ones? Who knows...


just saying if we are God&#39;s kids..and he is our father..If we did our kids like he does us..we&#39;d be arrested...

Human services to God:Hey Mister your kids..there out there killing each other..
God:yeah..I know..I keep telling them Not To..But they won&#39;t Listen...
HS:Can&#39;t you do more than that?
God:Well i sent my trly Begotten Son out there to tell them....but they killed him...Of course I raised him...so thats ok
Hs:You know that they are walking around and jsut making a mess everywhere to right?(pollution)
God:Yes...They can be a handful...but I believe that since I have also created cancer and flu and ebola and all kindsa other nasty things to kill and hurt them indescriminately that it should teach them a lesson....

Hs:..


Ed

[evildon]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+20 January 2004 - 00:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 20 January 2004 - 00:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Spindulik@19 January 2004 - 22:40
<!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.
where exactly did i say that? [/b][/quote]
When you said that 911 was a lesseon to teach us how prescious life is....I dont need to see 4000 people die on TV to kow how precious life is..I dont need my foot blown off(random over the top example) to know how presious my foot is...same logic progression..

ED

[evildon]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 01:10
As for shooting your self in the foot, i would prefer it if you didn&#39;t but i don&#39;t know gods will, if you do the it was mean&#39;t to happen for some reason. I&#39;m not saying that shooting yourself is good or that if there is a reason for you to do so that it is nice for you, i am just saying, how are we as humans supposed to understand what god intends.


I already know how prescious life is....

evildon i mean&#39;t no offence i was just trying to explain that there is a lesson to be learnt or something to be gained for every situation.

hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
none taken...I just dont see how 911 could be some lesson..if its to tech me that Ishould escape the pain and suffeing of this world as in the post i responded to..the Christians should be killing themselves left and right..no thats a sin..so..a tru christian should become a serial killer and go around killind christians..and bear the sins of all that death knowing that he sent their souls on to heaven..thats logical..

The Killer would stalk the people make sure they were christian...then subdue them..using some type of nerve drug..ask them if they have accepted Jesus as their tru lord and savior..have them ask for forgivness of all their sins.....then kill them humanely with an insulin overdose....They go to god...then in the end after all the christians are dead..The killer could beg for forgivness on his deathbed..it would be sincere not contrite if he ACTUALLY beleved that they were going to heaven...so hed go to heaven to...if god is real and thats how u get to heaven then it would work...no more pain...of course one couldnt do it..it take some cult..


so I dont think suffering teaches any kind of useful lesson...except there is random death and pain...no higher purpose to suffering...that i can see..

[evildon]

Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 05:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
Amen me too

[evildon]

Originally posted by hobbes+20 January 2004 - 05:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 20 January 2004 - 05:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well&#33;
It&#39;s because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:
Well, that does make sense.

If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better? [/b][/quote]
Can I be an Evil Minion&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;PLLLLEEEEASE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Not a lacky.....or a sidekick mind you..I am not worthy of that..just a minion...

ED

[UKMan]

Brought up as a "christian" untill i was old enough to make my own mind up about what i wanted to think.

Then became a "child of god" (roflmfao) for about 1 year - brainwashers annonymous.

Was a member of the mormon church for over 6 years - became an elder even - brainwashers annonymous 2.

I guess some of these start out with good enough intentions, but then something/someone changes all that....

Don&#39;t give a flying fart anymore... i just live as i wish and TRY to be as good as i possibly can - difficult here though, so if there IS a hell, then i&#39;m certainly gonna be there - if there IS a heaven, then it will remain on my list of places: "aint gotta rats ass chance of ever going there"

I&#39;ll listen to anyone who knocks on my door, up to the point when they tell me:

Only a certain number will go to heaven.
You cant drink coffe or tea.
I have to pay 10% of my income to the church.
I cant have sex outside of marriage.
I have to pray everynight for forgiveness.
I have to look east and bow down like a fool.
Push stupid beads through my fingers
etcetera etcetera...

Then i&#39;ll slam the door B)

Peace
UKMan

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by evildon+20 January 2004 - 06:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evildon &#064; 20 January 2004 - 06:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 00:56

Originally posted by Spindulik@19 January 2004 - 22:40
<!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.
where exactly did i say that?
When you said that 911 was a lesseon to teach us how prescious life is....I dont need to see 4000 people die on TV to kow how precious life is..I dont need my foot blown off(random over the top example) to know how presious my foot is...same logic progression..

ED [/b][/quote]
I did not at anypoint say it was, i mearly suggested it as possible a possible motive.
Plus i did not mean it in the sense you have taken it, i simply mean&#39;t that with horrfic occurances like 911 maybe it is time the world stopped the production of nukes signed a universal peace treaty and stopped trying to hurt each other. So to teach us how precious life is so that we all understand that drastic changes need to be made in the world in order to prevent segregation and hate.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by evildon+20 January 2004 - 06:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evildon @ 20 January 2004 - 06:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 01:10
As for shooting your self in the foot, i would prefer it if you didn&#39;t but i don&#39;t know gods will, if you do the it&nbsp; was mean&#39;t to happen for some reason. I&#39;m not saying that shooting yourself is good or that if there is a reason for you to do so that it is nice for you, i am just saying, how are we as humans supposed to understand what god intends.


I already know how prescious life is....

evildon i mean&#39;t no offence i was just trying to explain that there is a lesson to be learnt or something to be gained for every situation.

hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
none taken...I just dont see how 911 could be some lesson..if its to tech me that Ishould escape the pain and suffeing of this world as in the post i responded to..the Christians should be killing themselves left and right..no thats a sin..so..a tru christian should become a serial killer and go around killind christians..and bear the sins of all that death knowing that he sent their souls on to heaven..thats logical..

The Killer would stalk the people make sure they were christian...then subdue them..using some type of nerve drug..ask them if they have accepted Jesus as their tru lord and savior..have them ask for forgivness of all their sins.....then kill them humanely with an insulin overdose....They go to god...then in the end after all the christians are dead..The killer could beg for forgivness on his deathbed..it would be sincere not contrite if he ACTUALLY beleved that they were going to heaven...so hed go to heaven to...if god is real and thats how u get to heaven then it would work...no more pain...of course one couldnt do it..it take some cult..


so I dont think suffering teaches any kind of useful lesson...except there is random death and pain...no higher purpose to suffering...that i can see.. [/b][/quote]
i did definetly not mean that escapeing suffering was by way of killing yourself or others i mean it in the buddhist sense of escaping from samsara (the wheel of rebirth) which is full of suffereing.

All pervasive suffering,
Likewise suffering of change, and
The suffering of suffering-
These are the three faults of samsara.
The Jewel ornament of liberation. Gampopa

I am not christian so most of the good christians part makes no sense, i also said at the begining of this threat i don&#39;t like to use the word god but it serves a purpose (as most people have a general understanding of the term or concept).

It was seeing the suffering in his town that incouraged Buddha to maintain a state of emptyness for 51 days in meditation. In buddhism impermanence, suffering and karma are taught to encourage to practitioner to leave samsara.

[evildon]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+20 January 2004 - 16:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 20 January 2004 - 16:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by evildon@20 January 2004 - 06:14

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 00:56

Originally posted by Spindulik@19 January 2004 - 22:40
<!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?

ED

Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.
where exactly did i say that?
When you said that 911 was a lesseon to teach us how prescious life is....I dont need to see 4000 people die on TV to kow how precious life is..I dont need my foot blown off(random over the top example) to know how presious my foot is...same logic progression..

ED
I did not at anypoint say it was, i mearly suggested it as possible a possible motive.
Plus i did not mean it in the sense you have taken it, i simply mean&#39;t that with horrfic occurances like 911 maybe it is time the world stopped the production of nukes signed a universal peace treaty and stopped trying to hurt each other. So to teach us how precious life is so that we all understand that drastic changes need to be made in the world in order to prevent segregation and hate. [/b][/quote]
Oh i agree that we can take a lesson from it..I just don&#39;t think God caused it to teach us a lesson...as a matter of fact I dont think God causes any type of pain and suffering nor Satan either,,,sorry I misunderstood..