Zeropaid, A Big Fake

[kAb]

The selfproclaimed "largest peer-to-peer forum online", Zeropaid.com, has been revealed as involved in possible fraudulent traffic statistics in an attempt to sell advertisement on false presumptions to gullible companies.

The website Zeropaid.com, operated by DRM developers and merchants Chris Hedgecock and Jorge Antonio Gonzalez for owners in the DRM buisness, has been under much scrutiny since users noticed what seemed unlikely official traffic statistics half a year ago paired with what seems a contradiction in management buisness relations to the websites declared purpose, to be a portal for filesharers.

Zeropaid.com CEO Chris Hedgecock claims a daily 40.000 users visiting Zeropaid.com at his personal buisness site http://www.chrishedgecock.com/resume.html. That equals roughly 1700 users per hour. The websites forum software however reveals the current numbers of visitors to be roughly 10-40 at any given time of day. Long time users agree that is the norm.

Since Zeropaid was first questioned about their impressive 170.000 userbase by the general filesharing community half a year ago, their usernumbers have alledgedly grown another 11.000 members, resulting in a total of 181,347 users per 25th of january, 2004. Zeropaid.com reports their users to have posted 179,316 posts in their four years of existence. While these numbers in themselves hardly seem proportionate, they certainly seem unlikely for a proclaimed 40.000 daily visitors.

Suspicious filesharers have noticed that an extremely large group of Zeropaid.com's users have no posts, adding to speculations on their actual existence.

In comparison, the fairly new but groundbreaking p2p forum community, [SPAM], reports a 40918 registered members and a total of 132816 posts per 25th of January, 2004.

A quick calculation reveals that while [SPAM] has 1/4th of the usernumbers reported by Zeropaid.com, they have 3/4ths the number of posts. And [SPAM] has only existed for just over half a year compared to Zeropaid.com's 4 years.

Theres definately something rotten going on, and its not in the state of Denmark!

By IQ214, 25/01/04. 




This is Zeropaid
Members: 181,348, Threads: 14,708, Posts: 179,316
http://zeropaid.com/bbs

6 months ago, I reported that they have bullshitted their numbers. Back then they had about 170,000 members. Today, they have just 11,000 members more.

Notice the number of POSTS: ZP has 179,316 posts.

Okay, that looks nice but then here is the catch. Zeropaid has been around for 4 long years.

ES5 has been around for under one year, (9 months) and we have the following stats:

ES5 FORUM STATS:
Our members have made a total of 132816 posts
We have 40918 registered members

ES5 has 3/4 of the amount of posts as ZP and only 1/4 the amount of users. ES5 has only been around for 1/4 of the time ZP has been around. Seems ZP is really full of shit!

Now, I also want you to take a look at this: http://www.chrishedgecock.com/resume.html

Chris claims over 40,000 visitors to ZP daily. hmm...is that a lie if you know it!

40,000 people in 24 hours is about 1,700 users an hour. Now remember, the average person who comes to ES5 shows up for about 20-30 minutes to read the threads.

How come when I go to ZP, I see the stats as:
Currently Active Users: 42 (16 members and 26 guests)

So this is just some extra bullshit that proves how full of shit ZP really is.

I totally agree with you that many people have the following types of accounts:

1) Accounts opened only to read the forum, but not participate in active discussions. We are a closed forum so this makes sense. Remember, not everybody is a forum participant, and since ES5 is considered a "hi tech" p2p proggy, many people only come to read the forum software updates.

2) Accounts opened which were simply never used.

3) Accounts opened for a small point of time, but the user either moved on and/or is not interested. Thats fair and I wont deny it. Could be journalists, reporters, or people who just want to see where the action is. An example would be the Kazaa Lite freaks who showed up 4 months ago over the update code. Other examples would include spammers.

In either case above, we dont claim to have 180,000 users. Every forum has "dead" accounts, or accounts that are not in use. That is standard for any large forum.

ZP will say that people come to visit the "news", but in reality, those who come to visit the news would appear in GUESTS at http://zeropaid.com/bbs

I just dont understand how the hell they can claim 1,700 users an hour (especially when the average user is on for 15-30 minutes) cause it would show in their stats.

Remember, forums represent 2 major things:

1) Dedicated users who are part of the p2p community.

2) Trends, Suggestions, Ideas, Feedback, Daily News etc., of the P2P Community.

ZP claims they have the largest online p2p community. They do this to say that they represent both the "dedicated user database" and "all the new trends and user opinion".

Fact is, ZP edits, deletes, bans, etc., users and fakes their user accounts. Hey, even Filehoover was banned from ZP because they called him a spammer! LOL

That is why ZP has the "Birthday accounts" which in other words is to represent a large number of people from all walks and ages of life. They have those accounts so they can convince advertisers and their DRM clients that they represent all p2pr's from everywhere.

I mean seriously, what P2P'r includes their job, place of residence, hobbies, etc., makes an email verification for the account, yet never makes any post?

Read this interview with Chris Hedgecock of ZP.
http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200304/eve..._0403_003.shtml


Christopher Hedgecock, executive vice president of EmpireDRM (www.empiredrm.com), recommended Webmasters visit sites like ZeroPaid.com and subscribe to newsletters like DRMDaily (www.drmdaily.com) to familiarize themselves with the concepts behind P2P networks and their popularity, and then begin transforming their content into material that will promote their businesses and make them money even if it's stolen and traded on the big commercial networks. By flooding P2P networks with DRM-protected content that forces out the illegal "free" stuff, Webmasters can head off file swappers at the pass, creating a sort of "pay-to-peer" network,


Is this the type of P2P'r that you can trust? I mean ZP owners make it very clear what they think about P2P'rs and even invite our enemies to come and learn the p2pr's habits.

(Btw, notice that Christopher Levy is advertising his SWAPBUCKS - pay p2pr's to "swap files" for the drm industry using popups on this website http://www.avnonline.com/

Also, notice that Christopher Levy has http://christopherlevy.com and that Chris Headcock is using http://chrishedgecock.com/resume for his resume. What a coincendence!

Its more than obvious that ZP is used for 3 major reasons:

1) Bias user opinion on the latest p2p trends. Articles and/or threads that are considered anti DRM are NOT ALLOWED ON ZP. I dare anybody to go to ZP and open a thread on DRM. The thread will be closed and your ZP account deleted. ZP hates ES5 cause we give everything away for free and are anti DRM. ZP requires that p2p networks pay them to advertise or else they try and ruin them with bullshit articles.

2) Collect user demographical stats, IP addresses, and other p2p stats so that they can build DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT tools to block P2P. In the article, notice how Chris Hedgecock refers to P2Pr's and says CONTENT OWNERS NO LONGER HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ONLINE PIRACY! The owners of ZP consider P2Pr's to be pirates!

3) Install spyware cookies on your computer for the purpose of monitoring your web browsing activity and reporting this information to 3rd party companies. ZP will tell you that the spyware cookie doesnt contain your IP address, but then thats all bullshit. When you browse the web with a spyware cookie from ZP, your IP address is known to the spyware cookie company who is monitoring your web browsing activity. I mean the only way you can monitor web browsing activity is by the IP address.

Fact is, ZP continues "business as usual" by collecting any/all data they can on p2pr's online activity.


So the truth has been spoken. Of course, whenever these articles are posted on zeropaid they are deleted immediately to cover up the truth. I hope this forum is open to the truth.

[james_bond_rulez]

open to the truth? what is the truth?

every forum admins/mods have their own agendas and personal vendattes and can u honestly say the same thing not applying to klboard?

i think not

[Vargas]

Originally posted by kAb@26 January 2004 - 00:18
ZP hates ES5 cause we give everything away for free
<_< :huh: :rolleyes:

[NightStalker]

<START sarcasm>

Oh my god&#33; They lied to us, they are just as bad as the RIAA.

<END sarcasm>

:rolleyes:

[Hacktown]

The owners of Zeropaid have no shame...

http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200304/eve..._0403_003.shtml


Christopher Hedgecock, executive vice president of EmpireDRM (www.empiredrm.com), recommended Webmasters visit sites like ZeroPaid.com and subscribe to newsletters like DRMDaily (www.drmdaily.com) to familiarize themselves with the concepts behind P2P networks and their popularity, and then begin transforming their content into material that will promote their businesses and make them money even if it&#39;s stolen and traded on the big commercial networks. By flooding P2P networks with DRM-protected content that forces out the illegal "free" stuff, Webmasters can head off file swappers at the pass, creating a sort of "pay-to-peer" network,

I mean Chris Hedgecock also owns EMPIRE DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT and also owns Zeropaid. :helpsmile: :( (I would not be suprised if he also has shares in the RIAA)

Btw - the P2P NEWS @ http://p2pforum.com is a lot better than ZP anyway.

[kAb]

Originally posted by Vargas+25 January 2004 - 17:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vargas @ 25 January 2004 - 17:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@26 January 2004 - 00:18
ZP hates ES5 cause we give everything away for free
<_< :huh: :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
I didn&#39;t actually write that, that is quoted by someone else.

[junkyardking]

This is rich comming from es5, all the lies, ddos bittorent, violent threats towards Randomnut and now they a have a fugitive by the name of Stephen Cohen working for them, a spammer and forger who conned another guy for the sex.com domain and then fled the country to avoid a 65 million dollar judgement.

ES5 and Zeropaid deserve each other..... ;)

[Mystikan]

3) Install spyware cookies on your computer for the purpose of monitoring your web browsing activity and reporting this information to 3rd party companies. ZP will tell you that the spyware cookie doesnt contain your IP address, but then thats all bullshit. When you browse the web with a spyware cookie from ZP, your IP address is known to the spyware cookie company who is monitoring your web browsing activity. I mean the only way you can monitor web browsing activity is by the IP address.

Hmm, I wonder if I should advise the folks at peerguardian.net about this and get them to include ZP&#39;s IP range in their blocklists. Traitors to P2P like this should be shut out of the networks. Or maybe not so much a traitor, as just an obvious enemy agent. The Fileshare Wars continue and as always, the Evil Empire will lose... Death to Darth Riaa&#33; :01:

[h1]

Damn. All I can say is damn.

[NotoriousBIC]

Guys, this is just another chapter in the &#39;ES5 against Zeropaid&#39; war.
I advise you all not to get involved or submit any of their IP-ranges to Peerguardian.
It HAS been done before and you WILL get banned from the Peerguardian database for doing so.

Both parties are lying SOB&#39;s and let&#39;s leave it at that.

One question to close off:

How many simultaneous users... oh never mind...

[Hacktown]

ES5 is run by the mob and we all know that.

Steve Cohen made hundreds of millions of dollars by exploiting huge domain names like Sex.com and Ras Kabair is a middle eastern billionaire oil baron.

But those guys at ES5 only exploit p2p. They lie about their user stats but they do offer free ftp and free movie streaming and they do it at their own cost. I dont care that ES5 lies about how many users they have cause they dont rip anybody off. They dont have any spyware or adware in es5. I&#39;d say that ES5 has about 1 million users. No way do they have 20 million.

Funny thing is es5 doesnt take prisoners. They even took over the domain http://kazaaforums.com and http://p2pforum.com and http://p2pforum.net and take over anybody who says anything bad about them. ZP & Slyck is now afraid to even mention anything bad about them. God knows how many times ZP and Slyck have been hacked over the last month.

We all belong to this mafia called P2P. So I dont judge ES5 cause at least they have proven they dont work for the RIAA. ES5 is just a very wealthy mafia type operation whos grown popular.

Sharepro threatening Random Nut only made SP more popular. I mean everybody likes that guy so Im not going to get flamed here for saying anything bad about him.

On one hand, we cannot say that ES5 is not pro p2p. I mean they do everything that we all wish we could do and they do it for free without spyware, adware or popups. So the baddest thing I can say is that ES5 is run by the mob. But since its only natural that the mob would be involved (afterall, P2P is illegal) I find that it can be a useful thing to be run by the mob. I mean the mob has lots of cash for resources that can be poured into p2p.

But it now makes sense why congress says "P2P is now being run by the mafia"

Zeropaid on the other hand is full of cheats. ZP sells everybody out and in my opinion is a very big danger. They work with the dark forces. You should report Zeropaid.com to peerguardian.

[NotoriousBIC]

Originally posted by Hacktown@26 January 2004 - 16:00
ES5 is run by the mob and we all know that.

Steve Cohen made hundreds of millions of dollars by exploiting huge domain names like Sex.com and Ras Kabair is a middle eastern billionaire oil baron.

But those guys at ES5 only exploit p2p. They lie about their user stats but they do offer free ftp and free movie streaming and they do it at their own cost. I dont care that ES5 lies about how many users they have cause they dont rip anybody off. They dont have any spyware or adware in es5. I&#39;d say that ES5 has about 1 million users. No way do they have 20 million.
They don&#39;t even have 1 million and you know it.
If they do please post a screenshot proofing so.

And I have no doubt in my mind that the guys behind ES5 will sell out just as alleged easily as Zeropaid.

Go post your mob-loving texts somewhere else.

[Vargas]

Yes well zp is trying to sell Digital Rights Management (DRM) to content holders to make a buck, something anyone can do with windows media encoder and a shared folder. :P
Oh the irony, when they started to show off their DRM techno savy and said they would make a weekly video of the top stories of the week in DRM protected files.
Within a few hours of the first one being posted on ZP, it was on p2p in UN-DRMmed format, free of all copy protection.

Needless to say they discontinued releasing the news in DRM format after that.

And Here it is (http://bitzi.com/lookup/NULCCHYPXARBECXJWHXAUU3SY2RCXTVZ) in all it&#39;s UN-DRMmed glory

PS Please stick it in your shared folder as a reminder to all those that think DRM is a way to force us to pay for their content.

[kAb]

Originally posted by Vargas@26 January 2004 - 08:15
Yes well zp is trying to sell Digital Rights Management (DRM) to content holders to make a buck, something anyone can do with windows media encoder and a shared folder. :P
Oh the irony, when they started to show off their DRM techno savy and said they would make a weekly video of the top stories of the week in DRM protected files.
Within a few hours of the first one being posted on ZP, it was on p2p in UN-DRMmed format, free of all copy protection.

Needless to say they discontinued releasing the news in DRM format after that.

And Here it is (http://myimages.fourvalve.com/sparky/Zeropaid%20-%20zpnews01_300_UN-DRMed.avi) in all it&#39;s UN-DRMmed glory

PS Please stick it in your shared folder as a reminder to all those that think DRM is a way to force us to pay for their content.
but now, as you may know, drm is being to used on microsoft, napster, and other music services to prevent putting the song on mp3 players or burning it more than once.

even for napster this is bullshit because you pay for the music and can&#39;t do with it what you want.

btw: personally I think Steve Cohen won&#39;t do shit for es5. He is going against their whole idea of being a free open forum.

I don&#39;t know the numbers, and i&#39;m sure they&#39;re inflated quite a bit, but es5 DOES offer a lot more than other p2p programs will ever consider offering.

Hacktown&#39;s quote:


Christopher Hedgecock, executive vice president of EmpireDRM (www.empiredrm.com), recommended Webmasters visit sites like ZeroPaid.com and subscribe to newsletters like DRMDaily (www.drmdaily.com) to familiarize themselves with the concepts behind P2P networks and their popularity, and then begin transforming their content into material that will promote their businesses and make them money even if it&#39;s stolen and traded on the big commercial networks. By flooding P2P networks with DRM-protected content that forces out the illegal "free" stuff, Webmasters can head off file swappers at the pass, creating a sort of "pay-to-peer" network,

Is a real quote, and he was a co-creator of zeropaid. THAT IS WHAT ZEROPAID IS FOR. If you visit zeropaid.com, you are becoming a labrat. They are familiarizing themselves with you.

When Chris Hedgecock went to the es5 forum to defend himself against SharePro&#39;s discovery that he and zeropaid were against p2p, he couldn&#39;t. He was slammed with interrogative questions on why he was using zeropaid to get info on users and use DRM tactics to destroy p2p networks. He began ignoring questions and finally began to break down. His posts became irratic, and he began using capslock and just plain flaming. Just check out his posts on the slyck forum (if they haven&#39;t deleted the thread yet) I&#39;ll look for them. He eventually dissappeared, and who knows, he&#39;s probably in a mental hospital right now.

[Hacktown]

Napster, Itunes, and the others who are selling music online are no different than Tower Records - but then they dont claim to be pro p2p. They are fucking online retail commerce and were built to be that way.

Zeropaid.com on the other hand claims to be into P2P. So there is a difference when ZP is involved with Digital Rights Management.

Why the fuck do we have a "p2p community" if the so-called leaders are taking us into pay 2 peer? Isnt that fucking queer?

Zeropaid has said in various DRM interviews that they want to creat PAY 2 PEER NETWORKS. Dude, what part of that dont you understand? That is what this is about. Who gives a rats ass how many people ES5 has or doesnt have.

Is pay 2 peer what you really think p2p should be?

Is gathering peoples ip addresses, demographical information, browser activity and using it to sue 12 year old little girls what you think is right? If so, then maybe your not a real p2p&#39;r. Great thing about p2p is getting music and files for free. Hell, how many 16 year olds have credit cards to pay for the music online anyway?

[ZeroTolerance]

dont use em duh

[NotoriousBIC]

Reality check&#33;&#33;

Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.

[kAb]

Originally posted by NotoriousBIC@26 January 2004 - 19:09
Reality check&#33;&#33;

Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.
... like?

an efficient DRM will be the end of p2p as we know it.

[Vargas]

Originally posted by kAb+27 January 2004 - 02:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kAb &#064; 27 January 2004 - 02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NotoriousBIC@26 January 2004 - 19:09
Reality check&#33;&#33;

Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.
... like?
[/b][/quote]
like screwing with random nut when he exposed thier code to be exploitable ON PURPOSE Link (http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2093)


an efficient DRM will be the end of p2p as we know it.
DRM is meant to be cracked, see my prior post. ;)

[bulio]

Reality check&#33;&#33;

Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.

:huh: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

[kAb]

Originally posted by Vargas@26 January 2004 - 20:01

like screwing with random nut when he exposed thier code to be exploitable ON PURPOSE

DRM is meant to be cracked, see my prior post. ;)
the random nut fiasco was a bunch of b.s.

Sharepro got pissed and let his anger fly, as everybody does once in awhile. singling him out is b.s.


DRM is NOT meant to be cracked. If they continue with DRM technology and discover a way to encrypt music etc. with un crackable DRM, there won&#39;t be anything to share. just look at how microsoft wants you to update your drm every once in awhile.

[Vargas]

Originally posted by kAb@27 January 2004 - 04:10
just look at how microsoft wants you to update your drm every once in awhile.
i dont have WM9 or DRM on this PC

[kAb]

Originally posted by Vargas+26 January 2004 - 21:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vargas @ 26 January 2004 - 21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@27 January 2004 - 04:10
just look at how microsoft wants you to update your drm every once in awhile.
i dont have WM9 or DRM on this PC [/b][/quote]
well you&#39;re lucky :angry:

[NotoriousBIC]

Originally posted by kAb+27 January 2004 - 04:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kAb @ 27 January 2004 - 04:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NotoriousBIC@26 January 2004 - 19:09
Reality check&#33;&#33;

Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.
... like?

an efficient DRM will be the end of p2p as we know it. [/b][/quote]
And an efficient internet mob will end freedom of speech on the internet...

You actually prefer some on-the-run-from-law money hustler above someone who&#39;s trying to sell Digital-Rights-Management?
You know full well that DRM won&#39;t be the end of p2p as it&#39;s already been cracked and will be in the future.

I seriously had expect some more sense of you kAb.

p.s. And don&#39;t come back at me that I&#39;m over-exaggerating. You&#39;re doing it too...

p.p.s. Anybody who threatens to pay people to &#39;do you and your family over&#39; AND posts that together with your address on public internet is a dangerous and deranged individual, with no excuse possible&#33; (thank God it was the wrong address)

[Hacktown]

And an efficient internet mob will end freedom of speech on the internet...

You actually prefer some on-the-run-from-law money hustler above someone who&#39;s trying to sell Digital-Rights-Management?
You know full well that DRM won&#39;t be the end of p2p as it&#39;s already been cracked and will be in the future.


The "Mob" isnt taking over the internet, but if you ask me I&#39;d rather the "mob" invest into p2p and not the GOV, RIAA, Microsoft, or DRM companies .

And Steve Cohen isnt a small "money hustler". Read this article entirely. Cohen offered to purchase Caesars Palace in Las Vegas for over 3.5 billion dollars in cash&#33;&#33;&#33; http://www.mediaesq.com/new76541.html

Cohen was in forbes magazine as one of the wealthiest men in the world for several years. Sex.com was a civil case and not a criminal one so for not paying the 65 million dollar bill so he preferred to run to Mexico. The whole Sex.com case was over "intellectual property" and "copyrights". It had nothing to do with who registered the domain. If it were just a case of "hi jacked domain" then network solutions would have given the new owner the domain back. Fact is Steve had the domain for several years. Do some reading.

Its no wonder Steve Cohen hates "copyright law" and the RIAA&#33;


Are we forgetting who the REAL bad guys are here?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

It&#39;s guys behind ES5. They&#39;ve done far worse things than selling DRM.

Besides lying about their user stats what has es5 done so bad? Update code that didnt hurt anybody and was fixed a long time ago? I agree that SPs comments about RN were WAY WAY WAY out of line but I dont use es5 because of Sharepro so I dont care.

Kazaa has infested over 300 million peoples computers with spyware and adware that is far more damaging than that update code. How many peoples computers have been damaged as a result of Kazaa? How many peoples web browser activity is being monitored as a result of using Kazaa or Imesh or Morpheus?

ES5 gives free ftp, free movie streams, free p2p radio, free verified downloads, and they dont have any adware or spyware. I am not political or religious when it comes to p2p. I could care less who SteveCohen is or who Sharepro is. I simply cant find another network that offers what ES5 offers for free and the security they offer. Can you?

I&#39;m not rich. I study and my parents barely have the funds to put me through school. If I get sued by the RIAA, I&#39;m fucked for life.

I wrote SP a letter a while back cursing him out about the RN issue. He actually sent me a letter showing me that he wasnt the person who originally published RNs address cuz it was in several published articles on CNET. (I checked this out and SP isnt lying). RN gave several interviews to Cnet and included his personal information there long before sp gave it out.

SP&#39;s major claim was 2 things. 1) He supplys files and was pissed off that somebody was promoting people to delete p2pr&#39;s files with an exploit. 2) Since ES5 started RN claimed that they worked with the RIAA.

Now everybody knows that they dont work with the RIAA. Steve Cohen financially backing it with Ras Kabair just proves that.

Everybody seems to want to convince their peers that es5 is bad cuz of the guys who run es5 are "criminals". So what? I mean I am criminal too because according to the local laws of my state, I am "illegally uploading files" everyday. So the finer points of morality are a bunch of BS when talking about P2P.

The only people today who can create and expand p2p are criminals. Are the owners of Kazaa righteous people? Uhh..yeah right. How can you make a p2p network and test it without swapping a file? How do you expect to get millions of users? All of them are dirty. Dont kid yourself.

I could go on writing but then everything I write has already been written a million times. Was SP okay to publicly threaten RN? Hell no, that was disgraceful. But so was printing the exploit in the first place. RN has had issues against ES5 way before that incident. I think instead of fighting with eachother, they should simply work together. I mean ES5 has got major financial backing and they arent going anywhere.

I think that if ES5 were to hack fast track with the help of RN, they would be number #1 in the world cause ES5 really does have the ability to hide your ip behind multiple proxys and offers a lot of extra security that we all need and no other p2p network is providing. Not even the RIAA can turn off ES5 cause they&#39;ve got the financial and political backing in Palestine. KLite and ES5 together could control the entire industry.

Its not the mob that hurts p2p and its not the RIAA that hurts p2p. Its the p2p community that isnt united. If the p2p community and the so-called "leaders" like Random and Sharepro would simply make friends, we would all benefit as users.

Until now, both ES5 and KLITE are acting like street gangs and its pretty fucking pathetic.

[Switeck]

Originally posted by kAb@26 January 2004 - 23:10
the random nut fiasco was a bunch of b.s.

Sharepro got pissed and let his anger fly, as everybody does once in awhile. singling him out is b.s.
Sharepro also bragged about sabotaging BitTorrent trackers on multiple websites.

[Mad Cat]

Originally posted by Vargas+27 January 2004 - 04:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vargas @ 27 January 2004 - 04:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@27 January 2004 - 04:10
just look at how microsoft wants you to update your drm every once in awhile.
i dont have WM9 or DRM on this PC [/b][/quote]
You can turn the damn DRM off...

Anyway, DRM will never kill peer2peer. What do you thing CD protection is for? Seen how much it helps?

[NotoriousBIC]

The "Mob" isnt taking over the internet, but if you ask me I&#39;d rather the "mob" invest into p2p and not the GOV, RIAA, Microsoft, or DRM companies .

With the Cov, RIAA, Microsoft or DRM companies you actually have RIGHTS. With the mob you have NONE. Get your priorities straight.


And Steve Cohen isnt a small "money hustler". Read this article entirely. Cohen offered to purchase Caesars Palace in Las Vegas for over 3.5 billion dollars in cash&#33;&#33;&#33; http://www.mediaesq.com/new76541.html


Did I say small? No, you&#39;re even making your point worse.


Cohen was in forbes magazine as one of the wealthiest men in the world for several years. Sex.com was a civil case and not a criminal one so for not paying the 65 million dollar bill so he preferred to run to Mexico.

Which is a criminal offense...


The whole Sex.com case was over "intellectual property" and "copyrights". It had nothing to do with who registered the domain. If it were just a case of "hi jacked domain" then network solutions would have given the new owner the domain back. Fact is Steve had the domain for several years. Do some reading.

Do some reading yourself&#33; Sex.com wasn&#39;t originally registered by Cohen, but by his financial partner, who simply &#39;relinquished&#39; it&#33;?&#33;?

I could go on and on, but it&#39;s pointless. You&#39;re right about the P2P community not being united.
However I&#39;m afraid ES5 and their group brought that on, as everything was fine before that.

On a final thought I would like to ask everyone a question:
"Would you like your neighborhood be run by laws of common sense and respect or by laws of money and honour?"

[Hacktown]

My point is that the comments about Steve being a "spammer" were out of place. I have seen no proof of that. The guy is a billionaire. I mean he doesnt need money.

I read some stuff on him cause afterall he is a really interesting character. He was a lawyer who got disbarred, continued being a lawyer and got thrown in jail for tax evasion and impersonating a lawyer and contempt of court and some other really dubious acts.


With the Cov, RIAA, Microsoft or DRM companies you actually have RIGHTS.

Really? What rights? So in your opinion, its okay to sue 12 year old little girls who live in housing projects?

Its okay to xerox copy a text book or even check out a book from a library, but its not okay to lend music out? Dude, the RIAA is a multi billion dollar interest group extorting the people. The RIAA needs to concentrate on making music non-copyable, and not screw the people who share it.

If you ask me who do I trust meaning the US GOV or ES5? Definately ES5. They are in Palestine. They dont come knocking on my door. The US Gov and RIAA will come if they know my identity. So at least I&#39;m safe with ES5.

I dont think that Sharepro meant anything serious about RN. I think he just wanted to scare him. Sure I freaked when I saw him threaten RN. But RN also crossed the line. RN should not have told people to try and delete other p2prs files on es5. Even if RN hates ES5 why did RN try to get people to delete the users files? Lets not go there that the code should not have been there. Fact is both sides were wrong and it doesnt matter who was "more wrong".

I heard that Random Nut fixed a bug for Kazaa that could have broken the entire network or split it up. He chose to inform Kazaa instead of doing damage. RN could have simply broken the entire network of Fast Track or lets say vice versa, lets say ES5 could have done damaged Kazaa nodes, how would have everybody reacted? The responsible thing to do is to inform the authors of Fast Track to fix it.

RN should have informed ES5 that the update code could be potentially dangerous. ES5 would probably have removed it immediatley like they did immediately after they knew about it. RN did it to damage es5 and we all know that. RN didnt print the exploit cause he cared about p2prs. The weird thing is that es5 gained big time from that whole fiaco probably because of the way SP reacted.

I mean come on, ES5 had been running for a year before RN&#39;s exploit and they are the only ones giving files from their own servers so its stupid to think they wanted to delete files. And look at how SP reacted. Does that sound to you like a guy who would delete files? His whole threat was based on the premesis to RN "if you delete my users files, I&#39;ll delete you" or something similar.

Dont get me wrong. I totally freaked when I saw the threats. I even pm&#39;d sharepro and told him that he was a fucking asshole to make threats.

I dont mean they are the "mob" in relationship to murder or killing. They are like a digital fungus causing gang green on the RIAA or maybe a "digital intifada" that cant be stopped. They found a way around the law and that should be embraced.

I once read a book that said "organized crime is better than disorganized crime". We are all criminals for doing p2p. Why not be organized? Why not unite? ES5 has proven they have the money and political backing in Palestine and they are not going anywhere so I mean how come RN and Sharepro cant be friends? Or at least act civilized and cut the shit out?


Sharepro also bragged about sabotaging BitTorrent trackers on multiple websites.

Sharepro never bragged about dos attacking bit torrent sites. He had his own bit torrent sites. Sharepro could have denied the entire conversation because it was in an open IRC where nobody could prove that it was SP. He not only admitted the conversation was him, he also explained it. So I&#39;d give him the benefit of the doubt.

I&#39;m not "pro ES5" or "Anti K++". I am just a user who enjoys both forums and currently use ES5 cause I cant afford to get sued by the RIAA. If I get sued, I&#39;d have to quit college and go work in a factory for the rest of my life (and my parents would probably dis own me&#33;)

My suggestion is that the powers on this forum and those of you who are on es5 need to speak to sharepro and rn and get them to shake hands. They dont work for the RIAA and them together can do a whole lot of good for us users.

Imagine Klite being hosted in Palestine. Kazaa or the DMCA cant do anything to turn es5 servers off. Imagine RN helping ES5 fix bugs and making a stronger p2p client. Imagine the benefits to us users.

Its the egos that prevent us from being united. If the entire p2p community was united, we could actually make a change and stop the riaa.

[NotoriousBIC]

If you don&#39;t want to take the risk of getting a speeding ticket, don&#39;t drive too hard.
If you don&#39;t want to take the risk of getting sued over copyright infringement, don&#39;t down-/upload that stuff. Simple as that.

You still seem to be thinking that it&#39;s everybody&#39;s right to share and work out your logic from there, when in fact it should be the other way around.

ES5 use of anonymous proxies isn&#39;t limited to it. You can use it with other p2p apps just fine.
But on ES5 went, parading they were truly anonymous, which wasn&#39;t their own doing in the first place.

When confronted with that, they claimed they had their own datacentre in a palistinian refugee camp (complete with sattelite photos&#33;) which also housed enough serverpower and bandwidth to provide proxies for the whole of ES5... in a palistinian refugee camp&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;?&#33;??
And where are those proxies?

Then comes the 15 million users claim, then the Bittorrent sabotage, then the threats on Random_Nut... (notice I leave the software bug out of this&#33;)

None of the above have denied, but always written off to misquoting, misunderstandings or anti-ES5 factions.

And so you choose to "trust" ES5?
Interesting choice....

p.s. please don&#39;t get your parents, 12-year olds and sad stories about factory work into this. It clutters the discussion with sentimental arguments.

[nanotek]

Originally posted by Hacktown@28 January 2004 - 03:25

Imagine Klite being hosted in Palestine.


omg thats the last thing we need :o

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by Hacktown@28 January 2004 - 03:25
Its the egos that prevent us from being united. If the entire p2p community was united, we could actually make a change and stop the riaa.
Well when it comes to es5 and the p2p community, it&#39;s got nothing to do with ego&#39;s it&#39;s got to do with lies and the tactics used by them.
That&#39;s why on every Major p2p board them and there fans are not welcome.

I very much doubt "Sharepro" even lives in Palestine, this was even confirmed by one of there reps on Zeropaid who went by the name of steve15 or somthing like that, from all accounts Sharepro actualy lives in Europe Somewhere...... ;)

[Switeck]

Originally posted by junkyardking@28 January 2004 - 02:01
I very much doubt "Sharepro" even lives in Palestine, this was even confirmed by one of there reps on Zeropaid who went by the name of steve15 or somthing like that, from all accounts Sharepro actualy lives in Europe Somewhere...... ;)
And hopefully for him, he can remain an anonymous &#39;target&#39; for the likes of RIAA/MPAA/BSA and international equivalents.

Unlike Random Nut, who&#39;s been made a marked man.