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Mad Cat
01-26-2004, 10:38 PM
PCI Express
PCI Express is a new interface for connecting cards to your motherboard. It has increased bandwith from current PCI and AGP (with a thundering 4GB/sec bandwith). The slots for PCI Express will be different for graphics and normal cards (more pins for the graphics slots).
Rumours around ATi's next chipset, R4xx, suggest that it will first appear with a PCI Express interface, but it has also been said that it will ship with a PCI Express to AGP bridge. nVidia, however will initially release it's NV4x graphics with an AGP interface.
PCI Express will be appearing in Spring.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/shows/2003/IDF/Fall/BTX/pciexpressslots.jpg
A 16x connector for your GPU, and the small thing is a 1x connector.

Processors
Intel
The Intel Pentium 4 Prescott will be Intel's next biggest release, available around February. The Prescott P4 will be made using new techniques and new instuctions, plus a tighter design with shorter interconnects to go faster and do more than the current Northwood P4s. A downside is that it will kick out a fifth more heat.
You can probably expect a 775 pin connector, PCI Express compliancy, a 1 GHz front side bus and a 4 GHz clock speed around the end of the year.
I've just read that Prescotts will support DDR2 memory from the off.
LOOK HERE (http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/index.html)!

AMD
Intel arch rival, AMD, plans to switch to a 90 nanometer process some time in the middle of the year, but up to then AMD are going to continue using their 130nm process - exactly like that of the Northwood P4. The 90nm 64 FX, codenamed San Diego, should appear along with the Winchester and the Paris, both codenames for the 90nm Athlon 64 and Athlon XP chips.
More 64 bit motherboards will be appearing over the next few months, including chipsets from ALI, ATi, nVidia, SiS and Via.

The AMD vs. Intel will really be cooking up in the Summer, and it will become clear whether AMD's 64 bit domination plans have been futile or not.

Video Cards
nVidia
Pretty soon, nVidia will release the successor to its NV3x series of cards, the NV4x. It will feature full support for the key technologies used in DirectX 9.1 - Pixel Shader 3.0 and Vertex Shader 3.0. It will initially appear with an AGP interface, as PCI Express will not be appearing till Spring, at the earliest. Although there is much speculation about the actual hardware configuration of the next nVidia crop of cards, but it is likely that it will feature eight rendering pipelines (up from four) and at least GDDR-II RAM. This is probably going to appear coinciding with the launch of Doom 3 and before CeBIT 2004. Maybe the second week of March?

ATi
ATi's R4xx chip, codename Loki, will probably be appearing about the same time as nVidia's next chip (above). There is also a lot of speculation about this chip's features, but Pixel and Vertex Shaders 3.0 will be supported, as well as the 32-bit processing precision required for the next generation of DirectX. Rumours are that it will be twice as fast as current Radeons and will feature PCI Express from the start.

XGI
XGI is basically a spin off from SiS.
Look here: New Kid on the Block (http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031107/index.html)
From those bechmarks, XGI's cards look very promising. You may say, "Pah!" but considering that its a beta card, running on alpha drivers, I'm pretty impressed.

Memory
DDR2 RAM
I don't know much about this yet, but I heard from Clocker that it will offer better speeds and less heat output that normal DDR RAM.
This I have heard, from a few sites. DDR2 RAM will probably not become mainstream this year, simply because its so expensive. It costs around 2x as much as DDR RAM, and several motherboard manufacturers have shown little interest in supporting DDR2 RAM because of this issue.

Originally posted by Source on this Info
Unless DRAM makers can narrow the price gap between DDR and DDR2 chips to under 20%, DDR2 memory is not likely to become a mainstream choice before the end of this year, local board makers said. DDR2 chips are estimated to enjoy close to a 100% price premium over DDR chips. The gap is mainly due to the limited number of suppliers. Companies that have introduced DDR2 chips are Elpida Memory, Micron Technology and Samsung Electronics.

Cases
BTX
Look at my post here (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=96441).

I'll update this more, ask me and I'll research whatever I can about upcoming stuff.

RGX
01-26-2004, 11:05 PM
this puts me in an intresting position....do i wait for the next generation PCI express mobos and cards, or buy now...

Nice list Mad Cat

Mad Cat
01-26-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by RGX@26 January 2004 - 23:05
this puts me in an intresting position....do i wait for the next generation PCI express mobos and cards, or buy now...

Nice list Mad Cat
The bandwith is madly increased, but I've heard from a few places that you will only really need this increased bandwith on things like Hard Drive controller PCI cards, that get really pushed to the limit. For things like network cards, and PCI modems I really doubt it will be of much difference.

Graphics card are the interesting thing for PCI Express though, but you'll probably be waiting till March for them.

abu_has_the_power
01-26-2004, 11:20 PM
nice post. the prescott will go up to 4 gig? nice. too bad that'll cost 1 k or 2

Mad Cat
01-26-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by abu_has_the_power@26 January 2004 - 23:20
nice post. the prescott will go up to 4 gig? nice. too bad that'll cost 1 k or 2
It'll make lower level P4s drop in price though ;)

bigdawgfoxx
01-26-2004, 11:35 PM
Great job madcat! enjoyed reading it!

SciManAl
01-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Bravo seen all this coming, but i bet most of you didn't see it all in one place hehehehe :P Very nice, yes P4s should go down, the 64 bits will further push them down, and the ddr2 will in time make ddr go down in price too... lots of cheap things soon... of course to run the latest os you will need the a neo gen. computer because OSs are "Supposed to be full rich with media and made easier to use"-Microsoft :lol: But i think the coming year will be promising... New companies... New tech... Bandwith on the Vid cards will kick ass... but again not something that everyone needs.. just something that everyone HERE needs... :lol: The p4s should go way down!!! i might get to really play with them... i mean come on besides certian features who the fuck needs a computer with those kind of specs??? a gamer, yes, a graphics artist yes, my hill billy clients?? NO... so this year should be fun

Yes ddr2 is basicly faster, less heat (not a BIG problem, but a nice added feature...) and it defintly will be nicer performance.., What we will have to see though is how fast i can find a place to steal all these parts from and make a good comp... that gets over 20k in 3dmark03 with ease :lol: ....


Cheers!!

Keikan
01-27-2004, 12:19 AM
I gots a better question right now right here cheap processers are athlon xp bartons but what about in 2004 in the future? What will be cheap and good? Like todays 2500+

bigdawgfoxx
01-27-2004, 12:26 AM
P4 2.4C...not to exspensive right now though lol

clocker
01-27-2004, 12:44 AM
From what I understand (based on 3 or 4 articles...) DDR2 memory is going to happen sooner rather than later.
It had never really occured to me, but the people who are in the catbird seat in terms of new tech release are the motherboard manufacturers. AMD (more on them in a bit) can make all the 64bit chips that they want, but, until the boards are readily available, it does them no good.
One of the major concerns of the board manufacturers is power. On the OC and Bit-tech forums it is becoming increasingly common to see threads on volt modding your board. With the rapid increase of PSU output and the need of fast chips for more voltage, it's becoming difficult for the board designers to provide stable, increased voltage throughout the whole circuit. So they love the idea of DDR2 cause it takes some of the pressure off of them.

AMD has apparently pissed of the board makers because they have decreased the production of the 64bit chips from the estimates that they provided last year. So Asus and Abit and all those guys hurried to meet a demand that won't happen for a few more quarters. So far AMD has yet to get a major PC manufacturer to commit to a big order...they are all waiting to see if Microsoft really will release 64 bit XP on time and if people are willing to make the jump.
Surprisingly, eMachines has already released a PC with the new AMD chip. So have the little, high end gaming machine makers, but that's not enough to make much of a dent in the market.

The poor board manufacturers are really caught between a rock and a hard place...there is so much new development going on that it's hard for them to decide what to incorporate into their designs. Plus, there is a whole new form factor being finalized, ATX is going to be history soon, so they have a lot of redesigning to do and have to commit to it years before they know whether or not anyone will actually buy the stuff.

abu_has_the_power
01-27-2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@26 January 2004 - 19:26
P4 2.4C...not to exspensive right now though lol
the only cheap thing the computer convention that i went to sold was a retail 2.4c for $79. that's not bad. i would've gotten it and sold it to ppl, but didn't

bigdawgfoxx
01-27-2004, 12:55 AM
Damn...If i hadnt just built a new system i would have gotten that for sure! lol then overclocked it alot to around 3.2 or so...would be better then what i got..but i love baby blue..(name in pending??) haha

DWk
01-27-2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@26 January 2004 - 17:55
Damn...If i hadnt just built a new system i would have gotten that for sure! lol then overclocked it alot to around 3.2 or so...would be better then what i got..but i love baby blue..
Who says it would? You already know that the 3200+ (the speed you are running, if I'm not mistaken), and the p4 3.2 (2.4c oc'ed) perform almost the same on every gaming aspect.

Yes it was a nice price though.

bigdawgfoxx
01-27-2004, 01:05 AM
The do perform almost the same??

Pitbul
01-27-2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by RGX@26 January 2004 - 16:05
this puts me in an intresting position....do i wait for the next generation PCI express mobos and cards, or buy now...

Nice list Mad Cat
Simply put, Yes wait till around late april to May to get a new system. im gonna get a new Motherboard, CPU, GPU, and RAM. but not DDR2 probly go with DDR400 since the price should drop a bit by then with the coming of DDR2

DWk
01-27-2004, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@26 January 2004 - 18:05
The do perform almost the same??
Lol you didn't know that? That's the reason why there aren't any 3.2GHZ AMD Athlon's (even though the actual reason is that their chipset doesn't allow for more speed :D ).

You can be happy with the processor ;)

RGX
01-27-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by Pitbul+27 January 2004 - 01:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pitbul @ 27 January 2004 - 01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RGX@26 January 2004 - 16:05
this puts me in an intresting position....do i wait for the next generation PCI express mobos and cards, or buy now...

Nice list Mad Cat
Simply put, Yes wait till around late april to May to get a new system. im gonna get a new Motherboard, CPU, GPU, and RAM. but not DDR2 probly go with DDR400 since the price should drop a bit by then with the coming of DDR2 [/b][/quote]
True, I think i&#39;ll hold off for a bit, the budget will only get bigger

cheers

abu_has_the_power
01-27-2004, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by DWk+26 January 2004 - 20:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DWk @ 26 January 2004 - 20:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigdawgfoxx@26 January 2004 - 18:05
The do perform almost the same??
Lol you didn&#39;t know that? That&#39;s the reason why there aren&#39;t any 3.2GHZ AMD Athlon&#39;s (even though the actual reason is that their chipset doesn&#39;t allow for more speed :D ).

You can be happy with the processor ;) [/b][/quote]
not really. the p4 3.2 tends to get better fps and benchies than the 3200 with same specs. there&#39;s a cache difference and some other stuff. i&#39;m ocing my cpu to at least 3.4 with my new stuff. gonna be sweet&#33; :w00t:



the 3200 does get similar performance, but still not as good as the 3.2

bigdawgfoxx
01-27-2004, 02:32 AM
I thought they both had 512KB of L2 cache..?

DWk
01-27-2004, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by abu_has_the_power+26 January 2004 - 19:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (abu_has_the_power @ 26 January 2004 - 19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by DWk@26 January 2004 - 20:20
<!--QuoteBegin-bigdawgfoxx@26 January 2004 - 18:05
The do perform almost the same??
Lol you didn&#39;t know that? That&#39;s the reason why there aren&#39;t any 3.2GHZ AMD Athlon&#39;s (even though the actual reason is that their chipset doesn&#39;t allow for more speed :D ).

You can be happy with the processor ;)
not really. the p4 3.2 tends to get better fps and benchies than the 3200 with same specs. there&#39;s a cache difference and some other stuff. i&#39;m ocing my cpu to at least 3.4 with my new stuff. gonna be sweet&#33; :w00t:



the 3200 does get similar performance, but still not as good as the 3.2 [/b][/quote]
Hence what we (bigdawg and I) said. He asked "do perform almost the same", and I affirmed this....

I never said it performed the same or better....


Who says it would? You already know that the 3200+ (the speed you are running, if I&#39;m not mistaken), and the p4 3.2 (2.4c oc&#39;ed) perform almost the same on every gaming aspect.

<_<

SciManAl
01-27-2004, 03:22 AM
Yep well said clocker...

The ddr2 is one thing that happened to be developed that has gotten them some relief, but They will certainly need more... What i have no clue... Something else must happen to bring all these advances together... hrmmm... ideas... hmm... Sory folks of to the shed...

LOL

Keikan
01-27-2004, 05:54 AM
I hope the price tag of the fx-51 will drop from the disturbing &#036;1085cnd

_John_Lennon_
01-27-2004, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by Keikan@27 January 2004 - 00:54
I hope the price tag of the fx-51 will drop from the disturbing &#036;1085cnd
Heck, The Regular 533Mhs 3.06 Ghz P4&#39;s used to be that 800 Dollars.

Mad Cat
01-27-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by clocker@27 January 2004 - 00:44
Plus, there is a whole new form factor being finalized, ATX is going to be history soon, so they have a lot of redesigning to do and have to commit to it years before they know whether or not anyone will actually buy the stuff.
Ah yes Clocker, thanks for remining me. ATX is going to be overtaken by BTX. I&#39;ll try to get some stuff now...

adamp2p
01-27-2004, 09:11 AM
Well the good thing is that you still can keep you power supplies. I read is last months CPU that although we have to dump the ATX motherboards altogether, we still can use our old power supplies.

BTW, nice post Mad Cat. Consider it community service what you are doing. A lot of people are just hearing about PCI Express as you post the info.

PCI-Express will double the graphics data bandwidth that you see today.

Mad Cat
01-27-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by adamp2p@27 January 2004 - 09:11
Well the good thing is that you still can keep you power supplies. I read is last months CPU that although we have to dump the ATX motherboards altogether, we still can use our old power supplies.

BTW, nice post Mad Cat. Consider it community service what you are doing. A lot of people are just hearing about PCI Express as you post the info.

PCI-Express will double the graphics data bandwidth that you see today.
I&#39;ve heard that it can provide up to 8GB/s bandwith, but somewhere else I heard 4. Still, its an extreme improvement.

adamp2p
01-27-2004, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Mad Cat+27 January 2004 - 09:44--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mad Cat &#064; 27 January 2004 - 09:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-adamp2p@27 January 2004 - 09:11
Well the good thing is that you still can keep you power supplies. I read is last months CPU that although we have to dump the ATX motherboards altogether, we still can use our old power supplies.

BTW, nice post Mad Cat. Consider it community service what you are doing. A lot of people are just hearing about PCI Express as you post the info.

PCI-Express will double the graphics data bandwidth that you see today.
I&#39;ve heard that it can provide up to 8GB/s bandwith, but somewhere else I heard 4. Still, its an extreme improvement. [/b][/quote]
With over 200 Megabytes per second in each direction for an X1 lane, PCI-Express claims to be a very cost effective solution for bandwidth per pin.
Intel&#39;s Grantsdale chipset provides an X16 link for graphics, some 4 Gigabytes per second in each direction (8GB/s concurrent bandwidth) dedicated to graphics, over double the bandwidth offered by AGP 8X. Hopefully, this additional capacity would be able to accomodate graphics demands for the next couple of years.


http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1830&p=8

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/pciexpress/pci-ex-bw.jpg

The most interesting feature of PCI Express is even the X1, which delivers 200 Megabytes per second in each direction--and that is just one lane&#33;

Mad Cat
02-02-2004, 05:47 PM
Prescotts and P4 3.4Ghz impending&#33;