Gaming, Witch Processor? [Archive]

4th gen

01-31-2004, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 05:30
I don't know much about prcessors, but HL2 needs 800MHz but AMD's best goes to 400MHz. Is there a differance between how AMD and Intel determine things?
I think you may be confusing a few things here. You say that the maximum clock speed on AMD CPU's is 400MHz, however, what I think you mean (and correct me if I'm horribly wrong) is that 400MHz is the highest FSB (Front Side Bus) speed on the AMD processors. The fastest AMD CPU's are approximately 2.2GHz, whereas the fastest Intel CPU's are 3+GHz. However, due to differences in the design philisophy between AMD and Intel, the AMD processors can keep up with the Intel's even when running at a lower clock speed. The moral of the story is that the clock speed of a processor is useful as a rule of thumb, however, it's not the the single-most important figure to be used when comparing processors. Did you read the article I linked to in my first post?

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 06:39 AM

Thanks 4th gen, i am trying to set up a computer in my price range. I am going with this AMD

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...tion=19-103-379 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=19-103-379)

Or a Intel P4 2.8 w/ HT

Would the AMD be a better choice? Also can i play Half Life 2 on it?

EDIT: Read it

4th gen

01-31-2004, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 05:39
Thanks 4th gen, i am trying to set up a computer in my price range. I am going with this AMD

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...tion=19-103-379 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=19-103-379)

Or a Intel P4 2.8 w/ HT

Would the AMD be a better choice? Also can i play Half Life 2 on it?
The 2500+ Barton is a very good processor indeed. If you were to run both CPU's at stock speeds (the AMD 2500+ and P4 2.8HT) then the P4 should 'win' i.e. run games and apps faster. However, if you are planning to overclock, you should be able to get better performance from an overclocked 2500+ Barton than an overclocked 2.8GHz P4 (working on the assumption that the 2500+ is more overclockable than the P4). It's hard (if not impossible) to say which is better, AMD 2500+ or P4 2.8GHz. In the end, it's your choice, so you should take a look at some comparisons, read some background info and make an educated choice based on this.

Depending on the rest of the system spec (e.g Video Card, RAM) then both the 2500+ and P4 2.8Ghz should easily be capable of playing HL2.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 06:57 AM

Thanks again 4th Gen :D I am happy, don't have to pay twice the price for everything.

Also i am going to overclock the 2500 to a 3500. :D

EDIT: One more question, umm when the system requirments don't list AMD on it but just Intel. Will it still work?

4th gen

01-31-2004, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 05:57
Thanks again 4th Gen :D I am happy, don't have to pay twice the price for everything.

Also i am going to overclock the 2500 to a 3500. :D
Good luck :)

Remember that there are differences in every single chip, so you might not get a spectacular overclock on your chip. You should, however, be able to get up to 3000+ or 3200+ clock speeds (~2.2Ghz) without too much hassle. You'll probably want to beef up your heatsink and fan though, if you're going for a big overclock.

Remember to keep up updated

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 07:07 AM

Yeah i am using this heatsink

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...tion=35-106-031 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=35-106-031)

And the case has 4 fans. SHould keep it cold.

_John_Lennon_

01-31-2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 01:57
Thanks again 4th Gen :D I am happy, don't have to pay twice the price for everything.

Also i am going to overclock the 2500 to a 3500. :D

EDIT: One more question, umm when the system requirments don't list AMD on it but just Intel. Will it still work?
Get a system similar to mine, or bigdawg's or abu's and you will run everything fine.

adamp2p

01-31-2004, 07:10 AM

It depends on the amount of effort you can put into it. For the $$ an Athlon XP 2500+ = $90 USD. With the right education and cooling you can get that puppy up to 2.2 GHz, which should be able to game just about anything.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_+31 January 2004 - 07:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (_John_Lennon_ @ 31 January 2004 - 07:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 01:57
Thanks again 4th Gen :D  I am happy, don't have to pay twice the price for everything.

Also i am going to overclock the 2500 to a 3500. :D

EDIT: One more question, umm when the system requirments don't list AMD on it but just Intel. Will it still work?
Get a system similar to mine, or bigdawg's or abu's and you will run everything fine. [/b][/quote]
Yeah it is pretty much the same as yours, but whats this "Amd 2500+ @ 11 x 200=2200" (the bold part)

4th gen

01-31-2004, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 06:11
Yeah it is pretty much the same as yours, but whats this "Amd 2500+ @ 11 x 200=2200" (the bold part)
The "@ 11 x 200 = 2200" is basically a shorthand way of expressing the overclock of the system. The AMD 2500+ comes standard at a clock speed of 1.83GHz. This figure of 1.83GHz is basically the product of a multiplication. The components of the multiplication are the FSB and the mulitiplier (often called the multi).

As standard, the FSB on the 2500+ Barton is 333MHz (though this is actually equal to 166MHz x 2 (due to the fact that we are talking in DDR terms (Double Data Rate))), thus the standard multiplier is (1830/166) 11.

What John has done is basically to increase the FSB of his machine up from 166MHz to 200MHz, resulting in a clock speed of 200 x 11 = 2200MHz

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by 4th gen+31 January 2004 - 07:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4th gen @ 31 January 2004 - 07:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 06:11
Yeah it is pretty much the same as yours, but whats this "Amd 2500+ @ 11 x 200=2200" (the bold part)
The "@ 11 x 200 = 2200" is basically a shorthand way of expressing the overclock of the system. The AMD 2500+ comes standard at a clock speed of 1.83GHz. This figure of 1.83GHz is basically the product of a multiplication. The components of the multiplication are the FSB and the mulitiplier (often called the multi).

As standard, the FSB on the 2500+ Barton is 333MHz (though this is actually equal to 166MHz x 2 (due to the fact that we are talking in DDR terms (Double Data Rate))), thus the standard multiplier is (1830/166) 11.

What John has done is basically to increase the FSB of his machine up from 166MHz to 200MHz, resulting in a clock speed of 200 x 11 = 2200MHz [/b][/quote]
I haven't overclocked a processor before. Is it hard and how would i go abouts doing it? I want 2200MHz :D

adamp2p

01-31-2004, 07:31 AM

Well, here you have several experts to walk you through the process. You should always detect the stability of your system at stock settings before overclocking it at all.

If you are good with your hands and a do it yourselfer you are in the right place.

You have some of the nicest people at this forum to walk you through it. :)

4th gen

01-31-2004, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 06:22
I haven't overclocked a processor before. Is it hard and how would i go abouts doing it? I want 2200MHz :D
Depending on what motherboard you have, the actual mechanics of overclocking shouldn't give you any trouble. To put it simply, all you need to do is to change one number (the FSB) in small increasing increments. You keep on doing this until the system becomes unstable (e.g. crashes, hanging, restarting). Then you just go back down to the next lowest FSB where the system was stable. One of the by-products of overclocking is that essentially you're making the processor work harder, you're forcing it to do more work (which is why an overclocked processor should be faster at gaming than a standard processor). This increase in the amount of work will, by definition, lead to an increase in the operating temperature of the system. Depending on the cooling employed in the system (e.g. what heatsink you have on the processor, what fan you have, if you have any case fans) the change in temperature between a stock system and an overclocked system can be very small or conversely very large. If you want to go for a big overclock (which it seems that you do :) ) then you should invest a bit more money into buying a good quality heatsink. A good quality heatsink will get rid of more of the excess heat 'made' by the processor, thus (hopefully) keeping the cpu temp down.
You should also buy a thermal paste. The purpose of a thermal paste is to create a 'seal' between the heatsink and the processor, to allow better heat conduction away from the processor. Using thermal paste will almost certainly void the warranty of your processor (but if you're wanting to overclock it doesn't seem like you're too worried about that ;) )

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 07:42 AM

Ok this seems alot easyer then what i thoght. This (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=13-131-455) is the board i plan to get. What do you do to overoverclock it? Do you change some number in the bios or within the system?

Also isnt this heatsink (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=35-106-031) a good one?

4th gen

01-31-2004, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 06:42
Ok this seems alot easyer then what i thoght. This (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=13-131-455) is the board i plan to get. What do you do to overoverclock it? Do you change some number in the bios or within the system?

Also isnt this heatsink (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=35-106-031) a good one?
Yeah, that motherboard is very good and should allow you to overclock the processor with relative ease. However, if in the future you may want to have a S-ATA drive, you might want to consider the deluxe (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-478&catalog=22&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0) version, which has an onboard S-ATA/RAID controller. It is more expensive though (you don't get anything for nothing and all that) so you'll have to decide if you want to spend that bit extra for the onboard S-ATA/RAID controller.
Possibly someone else could advise on the best heatsink, I don't really know which are the current market leaders in that area...
This (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-007&depa=0) is the thermal paste I was talking about, it's not expensive but it should make quite a big difference in comparison to the standard thermal pad (which you'll get if you buy a retail processor).

To overclock the system, quite simply all you do is to boot into the BIOS (with that board you should need to press the "DEL" key on startup). Then when you're in the BIOS, you just change the FSB.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 08:09 AM

Sure i'll go with board if i need it, but why do i need sata drive? Just woundering

4th gen

01-31-2004, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 07:09
Sure i'll go with board if i need it, but why do i need sata drive? Just woundering
Sorry if I gave the impression you needed the more expensive board. I was just saying that if you were thinking of getting a S-ATA drive in the future then things would be less complicated if you bought the deluxe version. S-ATA drives are built to use a different transfer standard that normal IDE drives (P-ATA).
Here (http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2882) is a comparison test between P-ATA and S-ATA benchmarks (though it must be said that those benchmarks are not flattering in the slightest to S-ATA drives). The reason that I use my S-ATA controller is that I ran out of storage space on my two P-ATA drives, so I could put a S-ATA drive in and not have to sacrifice speed by sharing the bandwidth of P-ATA between two P-ATA drives.
If you won't use the additional functions of the Deluxe version then it's obvious you shouldn't get it

imported_pichan916

01-31-2004, 08:29 AM

AMD 2500+, it cheaper....very easy to overclock it to get a 3200+. speed wise, it doesn't seem to make much different compare to the intel 2.8G. All processor after 1.5G seem the same. Unless ur running 50 program and dowloading 10G off BT, you barely can tell the difference.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 08:30 AM

Yeah i'll go with the deluxe, its just S-ATA drives are twice the price as IDA drives. In the chance i need a S-ATA connecter this would be good.

johnboy27

01-31-2004, 08:40 AM

You could always go with this board (https://www.mocc.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=143) as it has a windows based overclocking utility included with it which makes it very easy for somebody new to OC'ing.It also has SATA and 6 channel on board sound,on board lan,8 usb 2.0 ports,8x agp etc. I bought one about 2 weeks ago(maybe less) and I love it.I only have an XP1900+ on it but it oc'ed a bit and the cpu runs about 10 degrees cooler than it did with my old shuttle mainboard.I am extremely happy with mine.I am picking up an XP2500+ barton in the next couple of weeks and maybe about a gig of 400mhz DDR.I'll be able to let you know how well it works after that.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by johnboy27@31 January 2004 - 08:40
You could always go with this board (https://www.mocc.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=143) as it has a windows based overclocking utility included with it which makes it very easy for somebody new to OC'ing.It also has SATA and 6 channel on board sound,on board lan,8 usb 2.0 ports,8x agp etc. I bought one about 2 weeks ago(maybe less) and I love it.I only have an XP1900+ on it but it oc'ed a bit and the cpu runs about 10 degrees cooler than it did with my old shuttle mainboard.I am extremely happy with mine.I am picking up an XP2500+ barton in the next couple of weeks and maybe about a gig of 400mhz DDR.I'll be able to let you know how well it works after that.
Sweet $75 and the same thing :D Saves alot of money.

adamp2p

01-31-2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by johnboy27@31 January 2004 - 00:40
You could always go with this board (https://www.mocc.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=143) as it has a windows based overclocking utility included with it which makes it very easy for somebody new to OC'ing.It also has SATA and 6 channel on board sound,on board lan,8 usb 2.0 ports,8x agp etc. I bought one about 2 weeks ago(maybe less) and I love it.I only have an XP1900+ on it but it oc'ed a bit and the cpu runs about 10 degrees cooler than it did with my old shuttle mainboard.I am extremely happy with mine.I am picking up an XP2500+ barton in the next couple of weeks and maybe about a gig of 400mhz DDR.I'll be able to let you know how well it works after that.
I would strongly recommend NOT to get this board as there is no dual channel memory support. Plus it is largely known in the enthusiast community that the Asus 4th gen mentioned to you is among the best nforce 2 mobo's around.

The Wraith

01-31-2004, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by adamp2p+31 January 2004 - 09:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (adamp2p @ 31 January 2004 - 09:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-johnboy27@31 January 2004 - 00:40
You could always go with this board (https://www.mocc.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=143) as it has a windows based overclocking utility included with it which makes it very easy for somebody new to OC'ing.It also has SATA and 6 channel on board sound,on board lan,8 usb 2.0 ports,8x agp etc. I bought one about 2 weeks ago(maybe less) and I love it.I only have an XP1900+ on it but it oc'ed a bit and the cpu runs about 10 degrees cooler than it did with my old shuttle mainboard.I am extremely happy with mine.I am picking up an XP2500+ barton in the next couple of weeks and maybe about a gig of 400mhz DDR.I'll be able to let you know how well it works after that.
I would strongly recommend NOT to get this board as there is no dual channel memory support. Plus it is largely known in the enthusiast community that the Asus 4th gen mentioned to you is among the best nforce 2 mobo's around. [/b][/quote]
Ok then (ahh confusing :frusty: )

Ok will this Mobo (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=13-131-478) fit in this case. (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=11-156-139)

bigdawgfoxx

01-31-2004, 01:17 PM

Yes, it will.

Good decisions on all your stuff...It will be about the same as mine :)

Mad Cat

01-31-2004, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by 4th gen+31 January 2004 - 06:34--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4th gen @ 31 January 2004 - 06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 05:30
I don't know much about prcessors, but HL2 needs 800MHz but AMD's best goes to 400MHz. Is there a differance between how AMD and Intel determine things?
I think you may be confusing a few things here. You say that the maximum clock speed on AMD CPU's is 400MHz, however, what I think you mean (and correct me if I'm horribly wrong) is that 400MHz is the highest FSB (Front Side Bus) speed on the AMD processors. The fastest AMD CPU's are approximately 2.2GHz, whereas the fastest Intel CPU's are 3+GHz. However, due to differences in the design philisophy between AMD and Intel, the AMD processors can keep up with the Intel's even when running at a lower clock speed. The moral of the story is that the clock speed of a processor is useful as a rule of thumb, however, it's not the the single-most important figure to be used when comparing processors. Did you read the article I linked to in my first post? [/b][/quote]
WRONG!

The top AMD FSB is 1600MHz, I know this because I have one...

Livy

01-31-2004, 02:41 PM

hes talking about 32 bit chips, not 64bit, and i thought they were 800fsb not 1600?

DWk

01-31-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by The Wraith@30 January 2004 - 21:06
Ok i was wounder witch is better for gaming, Athlon XP 2500 (well 3500) or Pentium 4 3.x+?
First off a couple of questions.... what do you mean on 3500? Are you gonna overclock?

Clocker might help you there before you do it (checking everything is fine, that is).

For gaming, I've seen that AMD (especially Athlon XP's) perform better when it comes to gaming. It's not a big difference though. The difference actually resides on the money you are going to pay for the same performance. A stock P4 3.02 or 3.06 kicks a stock Athlon XP 2500 from here to Jupiter and back. So if you don't plan on overclocking and you are only considering a 2500+ and a p4 3.x (and money isn't "important"), then go with a p4. I would recommend getting a 3200+ because it would perform the same as a p4 3.x and it is much more cheaper :)

Let us know :01:

Mad Cat

01-31-2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Livy@31 January 2004 - 14:41
hes talking about 32 bit chips, not 64bit, and i thought they were 800fsb not 1600?
I never saw him say that.

4th gen

01-31-2004, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Mad Cat+31 January 2004 - 14:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mad Cat @ 31 January 2004 - 14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Livy@31 January 2004 - 14:41
hes talking about 32 bit chips, not 64bit, and i thought they were 800fsb not 1600?
I never saw him say that. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, I meant 32bit...Calm down :lol:

_John_Lennon_

01-31-2004, 07:04 PM

What is up with you freaking ASUS Fanboys? Swear you guys all come out of the woodwork at night.

Now, I know the A7N8X-E Deluxe very well, and that looks like a good price at 113.99.

Except, if you will notice, my board, the 8RDA3+ is practically THE EXACT SAME, for only 86.00 8RDA3+ (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-198&catalog=22&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1)
And if you get the Epox, you get better cooling, by means of an active northbridge cooling (has a fan and heatsink instead of just a heatsink with the ASUS's) as well as a heatsink on the southbridge chip, instead of none at all for the ASUS. You also get free rounded cables, which was a plus for me, seeing as how they maximize air flow in the case and I was going to buy some anyway. It is also known as a better overclocker than the ASUS's.

Oh, and you save about 15 dollars, but am I the only one that wants to save money?

Mad Cat

01-31-2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by 4th gen+31 January 2004 - 18:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4th gen @ 31 January 2004 - 18:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Mad Cat@31 January 2004 - 14:59
<!--QuoteBegin-Livy@31 January 2004 - 14:41
hes talking about 32 bit chips, not 64bit, and i thought they were 800fsb not 1600?
I never saw him say that.
Yeah, I meant 32bit...Calm down :lol: [/b][/quote]
Oh well, nevermind :P

Smurfette

01-31-2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by 4th gen+31 January 2004 - 04:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4th gen @ 31 January 2004 - 04:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 03:12
Haven't read it yet, but thats a dam small mobo. :lol:
It was conceived/built < 1994 :) [/b][/quote]
Umm... with an AGP slot?
The BIOS is copyright 1999 as well.

4th gen

01-31-2004, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Smurfette+31 January 2004 - 21:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Smurfette @ 31 January 2004 - 21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by 4th gen@31 January 2004 - 04:15
<!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 03:12
Haven't read it yet, but thats a dam small mobo. :lol:
It was conceived/built < 1994 :)
Umm... with an AGP slot?
The BIOS is copyright 1999 as well. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, according to Mad Cat, AGP was introduced in 1997, so I was pretty far off there
Although now Nogimics is saying 1996...

Smurfette

01-31-2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by 4th gen+31 January 2004 - 22:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4th gen @ 31 January 2004 - 22:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Smurfette@31 January 2004 - 21:17

Originally posted by 4th gen@31 January 2004 - 04:15
<!--QuoteBegin-The Wraith@31 January 2004 - 03:12
Haven't read it yet, but thats a dam small mobo. :lol:
It was conceived/built < 1994 :)
Umm... with an AGP slot?
The BIOS is copyright 1999 as well.
Yeeah, according to Mad Cat, AGP was introduced in 1997, so I was pretty far off there [/b][/quote]
I was puzzling over it myself, trying to think where they'd get a post-'97 (likely '99) board that would run a 100MHz CPU.

Mad Cat

01-31-2004, 10:49 PM

About the AGP thing, Intel probably made AGP more widespread in 1997, which I worked out from Nogimics saying AGP 1.0 was in 1996.

The Wraith

02-01-2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by _John_Lennon_@31 January 2004 - 19:04
What is up with you freaking ASUS Fanboys? Swear you guys all come out of the woodwork at night.

Now, I know the A7N8X-E Deluxe very well, and that looks like a good price at 113.99.

Except, if you will notice, my board, the 8RDA3+ is practically THE EXACT SAME, for only 86.00 8RDA3+ (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-198&catalog=22&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1)
And if you get the Epox, you get better cooling, by means of an active northbridge cooling (has a fan and heatsink instead of just a heatsink with the ASUS's) as well as a heatsink on the southbridge chip, instead of none at all for the ASUS. You also get free rounded cables, which was a plus for me, seeing as how they maximize air flow in the case and I was going to buy some anyway. It is also known as a better overclocker than the ASUS's.

Oh, and you save about 15 dollars, but am I the only one that wants to save money?
Seems like a good deal, i am trying to save as much money as i can. Will it fit in my case?