Ohio Sniper On The Loose

[newcster68]

Turf Wider For Ohio Sniper?
Posted By: newcster68 February 15, 2004 06:15

http://domania.us/LWN2003/NewsPhotos/bug_video.gif Ohio Sniper Shootings News Clip (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/videoplayer/newVid/framesource2.html?clip=/media/2004/02/13/video600343.wmv&sec=201&vidId=201&title=Ohio$@$Sniper$@$Shootings&hitboxMLC=national)
http://domania.us/LWN2003/NewsPhotos/Sniper.jpg
Investigators confer on Tollgate Road
overpass, which crosses I-70, where
another shooting was reported Saturday,
near Pataskala, Ohio (Photo: AP)

(CBS/AP) - A man standing on a highway overpass fired a handgun at a sport utility vehicle Saturday on Interstate 70, and investigators said it appeared to be linked to the months-long series of highway shootings in the Columbus area.

No one was injured in the late morning shooting near Pataskala, about 15 miles east of Columbus.

The bullet struck the SUV's right front fender and lodged in the battery. It was recovered and sent for lab testing.

The shooting appeared to be related to the 23 others since May, said Franklin County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Steve Martin, a spokesman for the task force investigating the shootings. One person has been killed.

"This is pretty consistent with what our shooter has done in the past," he said. "Our particular shooter is becoming much more aggressive, much bolder."

The SUV driver and four other witnesses described the shooter as a clean-shaven white male in his 30s with dark hair, wearing a hat and sunglasses and driving a small black sedan, Martin said.

The description matched the one given by witnesses who were shot at last Sunday on Interstate 71 southwest of Columbus.

Although the serial shootings started in May, most have occurred since mid-October.

Until last month, the gunfire was scattered along or near Interstate 270, the busy highway that encircles Columbus. The last four shootings had moved toward the southwest on I-71.

Saturday's shooting is the farthest east the shooter has struck.

And CBS News Correspondent Cami McCormick says that would be "a disturbing development for law enforcement officials. The shooter struck first south of Columbus on the 270 loop, then even farther South on another highway. With increased surveillance and heavy patrols on both those roadways...officials hoped to have him caged in. Instead, he may now be expanding his target area again."

Source: CBSNEWS.com (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/18/national/main589237.shtml)

[j2k4]

I wonder our young pilgrim's firearm was obtained legally and is properly registered? ;)

[Biggles]

Just a thought, but if ballistics can identify the signature of every gun why is there not a database of every gun made. Thus the police could access the records to trace the last known owner (much like a car).

I appreciate illegal imports would fall out with the scope of this but it would still capture huge numbers of weapons.

Apologies if this already exists - I am not very up on firearms issues.

[james_bond_rulez]

that databse is useless if you know how to change that hammer and tubing of the gun....

[Biggles]

I suspect that someone who can strip a gun with his tonsils in the dark is not likely to use a traceable weapon to kill in the first place.

I think most of the crimes of passion, robberies that go wrong, drunken fights etc., would benefit from a database. After all, there is no point in changing the bits and bobs after the shooting.

The beauty of such a database is that the gun owner doesn't have to do anything other than advise if the gun is sold on to a third person.

[j2k4]

The wisdom of such a thing would be subject to the same template used for the gathering of fingerprints to track terrorists.

It would seem to be less reliable though, given the need to have a record created by firing each weapon as it left it's place of manufacture, and, given the black market and it's ability to provide services as well as goods, gunsmiths already provide a variety of modification services without proper documentation.

I think though, along the lines you describe, Biggles, that if such info as exists were entered into a database it could be of use, however limited.

I am referring to recovered rounds from crimes whose condition would lend themselves to the creation of a record.

It would seem a shame not to make use of any such information, given the ease of data transmission these days; could conceivably put a dent in street crime. ;)

EDIT: Sorry for being late posting this; I was away from the keyboard for a bit after your first post, Biggles. ;)

[MagicNakor]

There's a "gun registry database" here. It's ineffectual at best, and it cost $2 billion (and rising). In theory it's a good idea, but in practice it doesn't work.

:ninja:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 February 2004 - 20:34
There's a "gun registry database" here. It's ineffectual at best, and it cost $2 billion (and rising). In theory it's a good idea, but in practice it doesn't work.

:ninja:
I think (have to ask Biggles to be sure) we were thinking of a database of spend slug's rifling patterns? ;)

[Biggles]

J2K4

Yes, I thought a simple database of ballistics against a weapon serial number. The gun when sold would have that serial number against its warranty (guns have warranties I assume?). The owner, by registering, would confirm the location of the gun.

$2 billion seems a tad excessive. Some countries run entire Ministeries on that kind of money. The rifling patterns could be supplied by the manufacturer. I am sure it would be a small price to pay to show they are serious about responsible gun use.

I shall retire to bed now - I am hooked on Bill Bryson's "Short history of nearly everything". :)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Biggles@15 February 2004 - 21:04
J2K4

Yes, I thought a simple database of ballistics against a weapon serial number. The gun when sold would have that serial number against its warranty (guns have warranties I assume?). The owner, by registering, would confirm the location of the gun.

$2 billion seems a tad excessive. Some countries run entire Ministeries on that kind of money. The rifling patterns could be supplied by the manufacturer. I am sure it would be a small price to pay to show they are serious about responsible gun use.

I shall retire to bed now - I am hooked on Bill Bryson's "Short history of nearly everything". :)
2 billion does seem excessive.

One would think civil servants could do this during spare time.

It's not a big deal.

Of course, if a politician can't announce it with much pomp and a large budget, it likely will not come to pass. ;)

[mogadishu]

Originally posted by j2k4@15 February 2004 - 19:14
The wisdom of such a thing would be subject to the same template used for the gathering of fingerprints to track terrorists.

It would seem to be less reliable though, given the need to have a record created by firing each weapon as it left it's place of manufacture, and, given the black market and it's ability to provide services as well as goods, gunsmiths already provide a variety of modification services without proper documentation.

I think though, along the lines you describe, Biggles, that if such info as exists were entered into a database it could be of use, however limited.

I am referring to recovered rounds from crimes whose condition would lend themselves to the creation of a record.

It would seem a shame not to make use of any such information, given the ease of data transmission these days; could conceivably put a dent in street crime. ;)

EDIT: Sorry for being late posting this; I was away from the keyboard for a bit after your first post, Biggles. ;)
i agree that making a database would do nothing but good. and it is nothing like gathering the fingerprints of "terrorists".. the people who would have their fingerprints taken would have done nothing at all except be from a certain country (im not sure on the spec of what you are reffering to). But with a gun registry - you are creating a database for the ownership of a lethal weapon that is for killing people. No other purpose. Now whether that person is an intruder or a cheating husband is a dif issue. But the bottom line is that we are giving these weapons to people and then when a crime is commited we have to way to link it to a gun unless we a) have the gun or B) the gun was used in another crime. In the latter case, we only know that the same gun was used.. but we still dont know what the gun was used for. I could go on and on - i am very pro gun control - i see no need for them here. But i dont want to get into a fight about gun control. I hope we all agree that a gun ownership database is a good idea. i was responding to your comparison to a fingerprinting database, which i view as a violation of personal privacy. personal privacy is void when you go out and buy a lethal weapon.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by mogadishu+16 February 2004 - 04:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mogadishu &#064; 16 February 2004 - 04:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@15 February 2004 - 19:14
The wisdom of such a thing would be subject to the same template used for the gathering of fingerprints to track terrorists.

It would seem to be less reliable though, given the need to have a record created by firing each weapon as it left it&#39;s place of manufacture, and, given the black market and it&#39;s ability to provide services as well as goods, gunsmiths already provide a variety of modification services without proper documentation.

I think though, along the lines you describe, Biggles, that if such info as exists were entered into a database it could be of use, however limited.

I am referring to recovered rounds from crimes whose condition would lend themselves to the creation of a record.

It would seem a shame not to make use of any such information, given the ease of data transmission these days; could conceivably put a dent in street crime. ;)

EDIT: Sorry for being late posting this; I was away from the keyboard for a bit after your first post, Biggles. ;)
i agree that making a database would do nothing but good. and it is nothing like gathering the fingerprints of "terrorists".. the people who would have their fingerprints taken would have done nothing at all except be from a certain country (im not sure on the spec of what you are reffering to). But with a gun registry - you are creating a database for the ownership of a lethal weapon that is for killing people. No other purpose. Now whether that person is an intruder or a cheating husband is a dif issue. But the bottom line is that we are giving these weapons to people and then when a crime is commited we have to way to link it to a gun unless we a) have the gun or B) the gun was used in another crime. In the latter case, we only know that the same gun was used.. but we still dont know what the gun was used for. I could go on and on - i am very pro gun control - i see no need for them here. But i dont want to get into a fight about gun control. I hope we all agree that a gun ownership database is a good idea. i was responding to your comparison to a fingerprinting database, which i view as a violation of personal privacy. personal privacy is void when you go out and buy a lethal weapon.[/b][/quote]
Oddly enough, the right to privacy has no constitutional basis (in the U.S.), but that is another story.

My point was that a database built from all sources (crime scene forensics/spent ammo, etc.), but beginning with weapons being test-fired for this purpose at the point of manufacture, would be subject to the same ridicule as the fingerprint program by those who would not be pleased by either program.

You raise privacy issues, but the more paranoid among us would, I&#39;m sure, object to both programs, and on the same basis: privacy.

All that aside, even if, as I and Biggles have proposed, a database was formed from existing evidence, and built upon accordingly, it would only stand to reason such an article would be of some use; many of these weapons are used over and over again by street criminals, gangs, etc.

The only difference would be that it wouldn&#39;t be accompanied by political hoopla that would acconpany a full-bore (there&#39;s a term, eh?) program which would incorporate wasteful aspects.

[ivy]

yippy&#33; i love living in ohio. :unsure:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ivy@16 February 2004 - 12:31
yippy&#33; i love living in ohio. :unsure:
This sniper is just another in the long line of attention-seekers.

If these types knew the gas chamber, and not headlines and book/movie deals awaited them, they just might forego their special brand of idiocy. ;)

[ilw]

gun control, sweet gun control, where would we be without gun control :-"

[Billy_Dean]

Well here&#39;s a bit of deja vu for you, ilw squashed between Billy Dean and j2k4.

Almost makes it worth starting an argument&#33; :lol:

How ya been stranger? ;)


:)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ilw@16 February 2004 - 12:58
gun control, sweet gun control, where would we be without gun control :-"
Are there ever any crimes at all in the U.K. involving firearms?

Yes-yes there are; the numbers are growing, in fact.

And I&#39;m betting those crimes are committed by people who refused to be stayed by "gun control".

Law-abiding citizens are, by their nature, law-abiding, and are also, by-and-large, not likely to commit crimes with the guns they own.

Criminals quite simply don&#39;t care.

As to other issues anent firearms, such as trigger-safes, etc.:

A law passed to bring about the use of such (admitted) good ideas would seem to run afoul of privacy laws if it became an issue of compliance checks, eh?

Perhaps some of these laws ought to be re-designated "guidelines", owing to their current ineffectiveness.

Billy-

I don&#39;t think Ian would fit between us, no matter what his stature.

BTW-ilw-is you a beeg won? :P

[Alex H]

http://www.cprd.twoffice.com/pubimages/ThumbPrintScanner1001-333-250.jpg

THE T.P.S. SYSTEM

The T.P.S. System is an also one of a kind identification system. This system will be used in ALL types of firearms, including;

Handguns
Rifles
Shotguns
Military Weapons
Etc...

We will also be installing this unique digital system into security systems for personel or high security business areas&#33; This product has been designed, engineered and prototyped for testing.

The T.P.S. System offers personnel identification of your individual print, then scanned into the weapons memory. Once the persons print is loaded and stored, this weapon will only fire when the owner has his/her thumb on the lens.

Once the impression of your print is loaded, the T.P.S. System can also download (via a secured internet connection) to all record departments of:

CIA
FBI
NCIC
Interpole
International
Federal
Military
State
and Local

This will considerably cut COST, PAPERWORK, MISTAKES, TIME and prevent ALL person&#39;s not allowed to have a firearm, from aquiring one&#33;

Source (http://www.cprd.twoffice.com/)

[Alex H]

Check out the photo (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=116&click_id=31&art_id=iol1047630378830C416&set_id=1)

Pretoria inventor Nic van Zyl has developed what may be the world’s first "intelligent firearm", a handgun that can be operated only by its rightful owner. It could make criminal abuse of firearms a thing of the past

It looks like a cross between a sci-fi raygun and an industrial high-pressure cleaning device. Bulky and block-like, it displays none of the black-metal menace inherent in most civilian firearms, and frankly, it is not a thing of beauty.

Then again, there’s no rule that says a firearm has to be pretty. Some people might find the smoothly formed wooden hand grip and machined aluminium body downright compelling, especially if they’re at the wrong end of the muzzle.

Say hello to the Intelligent Fire Arm, a unique and thoroughly South African device that could change the way we think about guns – and the people who wield them. Although still in prototype form, it will soon enter manufacture.
Inventor Nic van Zyl, 65, is an ardent believer in firearms with brains.

“Until now, firearms have been dumb. They lie in your safe at home, or in your holster, and tell no stories. Naturally, this opens the door for all sorts of abuse. The Intelligent Fire Arm, also known as the ‘smart gun’, changes all that.”

Van Zyl is managing director of Bansha Investments, the company that has produced the prototype of the IFA. Work began on the device in 1994, when the first of many patents was taken out. Now, eight years later, an international firearms company is poised to acquire the production rights to what may well be the world’s first foolproof firearm – at least in terms of criminal abuse.

The IFA, as it’s known, uses a biometric sensor located just above the handgrip to activate its firing capability. The sensor is encoded with the thumbprint of an authorised user (or users): unless it recognises the imprint, it remains inoperative. As Van Zyl says, an unauthorised person could use it to clobber someone over the head, but that’s about it.

“This is the first firearm to enter the electronics age in terms of authorised use. It could be used for personal protection, or in a responsible peacekeeping role. There is a real need for a gun like this.”

In conjunction with the biometric sensor, the electronic chip located in the gun’s pistol grip will be encoded with a range of additional information regarding the user’s personal details, including fingerprints, identity number, and licence status (that is, whether the firearm is for personal protection, hunting, police or military use).

The device is designed to empower a country’s authorities with absolute control over the gun’s life history, says Van Zyl. When the firearm is issued, it can be “loaded” with one or more authorised users’ details. This data is stored in a fixed memory that cannot be changed. And it records each and every shot fired by the IFA.

“In addition to this record, we have added a tiny camera – similar to the devices used in mini-cam recorders – which takes a photograph every time the gun is fired. This information is downloadable by the authorities for use in a court case, if necessary, to document the circumstances in which the shot was fired.”

Banshee intends to develop a smart card recognition system for the gun as a further safety measure. The smart card will be carried by the owner, and the proximity of the gun to his card activates the device to “ready” status. Again, it will not fire unless the biometric sensor above the grip recognises the authorised user’s thumbprint.

The IFA dispenses with the conventional percussive firing action, instead employing laser technology to ignite the charge in the bullet. This has required the production of special bullets with a built-in “window”, allowing a laser beam to ignite the (conventional) charge. To prevent gas from fogging the laser beam, the inventor has installed a small plastic lens on the back of the bullet and an O-ring on each bullet.

Because there is no percussive or hammer device in the gun, it has been possible to incorporate the magazine and the barrel in one unit. The prototype uses a 10-barrel configuration, with two vertical rows of five bullets arranged side-by-side.

When all 10 shots have been fired, the magazine/barrel is simply ejected and a new, loaded barrel is installed, using a quick-release lever. The empty barrel (held in place by a clip that permits rapid removal and replacement) is returned to the dealer for reloading. It’s virtually impossible for ordinary users to make or reload the uniquely coded, caseless ammunition.

Van Zyl says it would be possible to develop many barrel/magazine combinations – accommodating different calibres and types of bullet – and considerably improve firepower, perhaps for military applications. With a large-capacity magazine, the IFA could be programmed to fire 50 or more rounds in single shots, bursts, or fully automatic.

For a street-legal weapon that complies with civilian laws, it would have a 10-round magazine and fire single shots only, requiring the trigger to be pressed each time. The IFA has been designed to fire at the rate of three rounds per second – fast enough to make even a Wyatt Earp happy.

“Sure, the prototype is bulky, but when we go into production it will be much smaller,” he says. The prototype was built by Kentron, a subsidiary of South African armaments group Denel.

Says Van Zyl: “A lot of the electronics contained in the handle or grip have yet to be miniaturised; the typical personal-use weapon can be made much smaller - the size of a conventional handgun, in fact.”

Bansha Investments has acquired patents for the weapon in a number of countries, including Japan, China and Russia, but it is likely that the IFA will be produced by a European company, as yet unnamed. It’s known that other major firearm manufacturers have “owner recognition” guns under development, but Van Zyl is confident that none of these offers the simplicity or user-friendliness of his invention.

Cost? About 50 per cent more than a conventional, or “dumb” firearm.

“There are additional shot-recording features that are likely to be incorporated into the IFA, such as a GPS recorder, which will pinpoint the exact location where each bullet is fired.
“The prototype already has a clock installed that records each shot, and by using flame spectrometry techniques, the bullet’s DNA, so to speak, can be recorded. Even a fragment could be traced back to its origin, together with details on the person issued with that particular bullet.

“Using special bullets will obviously complicate the infrastructure needed to get the IFA into production, but it should be remembered that this device could change our whole approach to firearms.

“I’m only a scientist… I can’t change people’s minds. But I can make it very difficult for people to abuse a firearm.”

The IFA has been tested by the SA Bureau of Standards in prototype form, says Van Zyl, and the test results show that it operates well within the spec of a conventional firearm in terms of accuracy and firepower. The 9 mm, 100-gram bullet speed was measured at between 370 and 400 metres per second – as good as a typical 9 mm pistol.

“Accuracy is no problem, despite the short barrel used on the prototype. By eliminating the percussion firing action, which necessitates locating the barrel and the trigger device at the top of the gun, we have managed to balance the IFA, so there’s negligible barrel kick in an upwards direction.”

Van Zyl says when the IFA goes into production it may well be for military applications, which saddens him a little. He’s always viewed the IFA in terms of safety, specifically in cases of theft and shooting accidents involving children.

“However, the United Nations has been moving more and more towards transforming military forces from aggressors to peacekeepers, and has made it clear that soldiers could be held liable for their actions under civilian law. In this respect the IFA could provide the necessary checks and balances to ensure that soldiers don’t abuse the power vested in them.

“It will even be possible, via the electronics, to establish a live link with headquarters whenever a soldier or policeman is deployed on an assignment. In effect, the curtains will always be open. When your neighbours can see in, you tend to be a lot more careful about the way you conduct yourself.”

In the final analysis, a firearm serves the purpose of launching a missile – in this case, the bullet that comes out of the barrel. “It stands to reason that these bullets should be controlled and accounted for… that’s why we developed our system. Bullets are coded at the point of manufacture and recorded against the name of the purchaser, who is held accountable for their use.

“This is the weapon for the soldier of the future – a specialist peacekeeper firearm.”

[j2k4]

Alex-

Your discovery will no doubt have the effect desired-on the law-abiding element.

Some enterprising criminal will still find a way to manufacture and distribute firearms and other weapons.

The standardization and enforcement of such a system?

Sounds like a job for the UNITED NATIONS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :P :)

[Billy_Dean]

j2, gun crime in Britain is increasing because of the Yardie Gangs. These criminals come from Jamaica originally, and still have ties there. The murder rate in Britain has increased dramatically over the last few years. The killers are mainly black, as are their victims. lt has become such a problem that a special squad has been set up to investigate black on black crime.

The main reasons for the comparitively low murder rate in Britain are the gun laws, which are very strict, and the severity of sentences if you are caught. You can expect 5 years for the possesion of an illegal handgun, and considerably more if you use it in a felony.

l&#39;d like to see comparisons between the per capita gun ownership in the US and Britain, and the per capita murder rate.

It&#39;s interesting to note that more people were murdered in the US by handguns during the Vietnam War years than were killed in combat. 50,000+ ?

l wonder how many have been murdered since 9&#092;11 ?

Maybe a "War on Guns" would make the US a safer place for it&#39;s citizens.

l&#39;d like to ask all the Americans here a question, "Do you know anyone who has been shot?" Ask the same thing of Britons and see the difference.


<_<

[clocker]

J2, your fatalism is infectious.
Since an "enterprising criminal" can potentially circumvent any law, I guess we may as well bow to the inevitable and abolish them all.
What&#39;s the point?

BD, yes I have personally known 3 people who have been shot.
Two died.
America&#39;s love affair with weaponry, and the insistence on our "right" to own it, sickens me.

[j2k4]

I&#39;ll grant your point with regard to overall numbers of guns/shootings, etc., in the U.S. outstripping similar statistics elsewhere, Billy, but my point remains:

The criminals will always find a way to arm themselves.

In the U.S., too, though, we have the added problem of a wishy-washy judicial system that can&#39;t quite bring itself to punish criminals, with or without guns.

Yes, we do have a lot of people incarcerated, but they don&#39;t generally serve but a small percentage of the proper sentence, and hence haven&#39;t much fear of serving the time.

I also have a hard time trying to communicate to others what the U.S. culture is like, relative to the private, proper ownership of firearms.

I shall ponder that question; if something ever coalesces, I&#39;ll make a suitable post; i.e. the "why" of it. ;)

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@16 February 2004 - 22:56


I also have a hard time trying to communicate to others what the U.S. culture is like, relative to the private, proper ownership of firearms.

I shall ponder that question; if something ever coalesces, I&#39;ll make a suitable post; i.e. the "why" of it. ;)
Please do.
I am an American and the rationalization escapes me.

While you&#39;re at it, perhaps you could go a bit further and explain how it is possible that you can "privately and properly" own a weapon and I can&#39;t "privately and properly" own marijuana...

[j2k4]

Originally posted by clocker@17 February 2004 - 02:51
J2, your fatalism is infectious.
Since an "enterprising criminal" can potentially circumvent any law, I guess we may as well bow to the inevitable and abolish them all.
What&#39;s the point?

BD, yes I have personally known 3 people who have been shot.
Two died.
America&#39;s love affair with weaponry, and the insistence on our "right" to own it, sickens me.
Clocker&#33;

I have infected you?

Through cyberspace?

BTW-All I currently own is a "spud-gun" and a couple of jackknives.

Okay; pass a law tomorrow outlawing private ownership of guns-what happens first?

Do you think you can legislate cultural changes thus?

Such things don&#39;t happen overnight-

Can we somehow manage to close down the black market, too, in one fell swoop?

Spend a few moments pondering the logistics of accomplishing this, keeping in mind our activist courts would have already done it, except they would fear a round through the head, not from one of our mollycoddled criminals, mind you, but most probably a heretofore law-abider.

Sorry for the fatalism.

I myself have been shot-accidentally-small-caliber round in the ankle.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by clocker@17 February 2004 - 03:08

While you&#39;re at it, perhaps you could go a bit further and explain how it is possible that you can "privately and properly" own a weapon and I can&#39;t "privately and properly" own marijuana...
That, sir, is a tactic I would have thought beneath you.

Let me try it:

Tell me, in light of all the reasons you could spew in favor of abortion, most probably up to and including the partial-birth method, how you would make taboo the practice of infanticide?

Or wouldn&#39;t you?

I would have a bit of difficulty constructing an argument against marijuana, given the cultural acceptance of alcohol, which I regard as being more destructive, however I won&#39;t try to cloud the issue by using apples and oranges debate tactics.

Good night. :)

[Yogi]

Cloud all you want, cos to me it seems you do that allready by stating what is not

possible with regards to gunownership.

If you use the argument of "cultural change can&#39;t be done overnight".

Gunownership is so foolish, imho their are no arguments not to start today.

And though i know that would mean only rich people would have the "right" to kill

in your country; what&#39;s new???

Guncontrol sounds so conflicting in itselfes&#33;&#33;&#33;

Something like "warcontrol"; duhuh..........

Like americans ever care&#33;&#33;&#33;



YoPacifist

[iamtheoneandonlyone]

...have to set a trap for him. Undercover cops going along the freeway until the guy comes and then go after him.

[ilw]

Although the prospect of another debate on gun control and its merits/demerits sounds good, the inevitable war of statistics is less exciting.

Obviously we in Britain do have gun crime, guns circulate around as well as enter our country, however, new legislation is currently (afaik) making its way through parliament to ban replica guns which when converted make up a large % of the guns used by criminals. In America i thnk the major source of guns available to the criminal element are those stolen off the non-criminal element. As far as stopping guns from reaching criminals then theres almost no point in restricting their sale to upstanding citizens because if so many guns are available they&#39;re basically easy to get.

firearms offences rose a little last year in Britain after a rapid increase the year before. The number of firearm robberies, firearm homicides and crimes commited with a handgun fell (again from the high of the previous year). (source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3419941.stm))

Edit: Got rid of something stupid

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@16 February 2004 - 23:20

That, sir, is a tactic I would have thought beneath you.


I don&#39;t think any tactic is beneath me.

I thought I had amply demonstrated my craven amorality in the past. :P

[j2k4]

I believe I owe all who have posted here, and especially my good friend Clocker, an apology for the tone and content of my last post; it was, to say the least, offensive and out-of-bounds.

I aspire to a higher standard, and I was a bit quick-I let my emotion get the best of me.

Regards to all-

j2

[ilw]

how did you get shot in the ankle, if you don&#39;t mind me asking?

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ilw@17 February 2004 - 15:30
how did you get shot in the ankle, if you don&#39;t mind me asking?
I was standing behind a young fellow who was demonstrating his knowledge of firearm safety.

He said, "and you are never supposed to carry your gun muzzle-up or with your finger on the trigger, see?"

When he turned around to show me, he shot me.

Apart from the pain, all I could do was laugh; he had been trying so hard to impress me.

My ankle was pinned for about six weeks.

Not too bad, all things considered. ;)