Hamster Coats..

[Wizard_Mon1]

100 hamsters killed for each coat! that is really quite sadistic, i didn't think real fur coats were still being made... but little hamster ones :( (Weemouse and hobbes may like to avert there eyes :ph34r: )

Hamster coats boycott callhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39905000/jpg/_39905507_hamster203.jpg
Campaigners allege that hamsters suffer in the production of fur coats
Campaigners have called for a boycott of a Scottish store selling hamster fur coats.

They have claimed that at least 100 hamsters are gassed to make just one of the garments and described the practice as "Stone Age".

The Austrian-made coats have been on sale at the House of Bruar store in Perthshire.

The store has said it will look at its range of products in the light of customer reaction.

The coats have been sold for £1,750.

Animal rights groups believe House of Bruar has been the only retailer in Scotland stocking the Austrian-made coats.


This is very gory and it is unacceptable in this day and age that any animal should be killed purely for clothing
Doreen Graham
Scottish SPCA
They have called on shoppers to boycott the store at Blair Atholl in Perthshire, which they say also sells garments made of mink, fox and racoon fur.

Advocates for Animals spokeswoman Yvonne Taylor said: "This is horrifying, about 100 hamsters would be needed to make each coat."

Ms Taylor said that in some fur production, animals are still alive when the skinning process begins.

Customer reaction

The Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals called the garments "coats of death".

Scottish SPCA spokeswoman Doreen Graham said: "This is very gory and it is unacceptable in this day and age that any animal should be killed purely for clothing.

"It really smacks of the Stone Age."

House of Bruar said it was worried that customers could be offended by the sale of the coats and hinted it might withdraw them from sale.

A spokesman said: "As a company, we pride ourselves on our relationship with our customers and are therefore concerned that we may have offended some people.

"We are constantly reviewing our product range in the light of customer feedback in our pursuit of excellence in customer service."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should this be allowed or is it a crime against nature?

Should animals be allowed the same rights as humans, is animal testing right.

Many chimpanzees are used for testing new antibiotics because they are so similar genetically to humans - should they be protected by 'human rights' - are other species inferior?

What do you think?

[Rat Faced]

I agree, i dont like fir coats...

The activists though pick their targets well...you never see them throwing paint over Hells Angels, for example...

[clocker]

How did you make the leap from "hamster coats" to "testing antibiotics on chimpanzees"?
Do you think they are morally equivalent?

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by clocker@1 March 2004 - 23:38
How did you make the leap from "hamster coats" to "testing antibiotics on chimpanzees"?
Do you think they are morally equivalent?
Do you think they are not?

[clocker]

Irrelevant.

The topic title and the posted article refer to hamster coats.
The questions he asks are about medical research.

Do you not see a disconnect there?

[sArA]

A Different debate entirely I agree with Clocker (Hi mate, long time no see) :) ,

Firstly, If the topic is about vivisection for medical purposes, then it should be stated clearly rather than snuck in as an emotive issue, right at the end.

I do not see the connection between killing animals purely for their skins, for the production of burgers, or the use in medical experiments. All are different debates in my view.

I enjoy the occasional steak, and thank medical research for having kept many people I care about alive and healthy. I also have no problem with the use of animal skins where that animal was also a food animal, this is avoiding waste of our resources. A moral vegetarian is of course not obliged to feel that way.

However, I would like to personally protest against the cosmetic use of animals for the sake of so called luxury goods. This is just unacceptable in an age where the softness of animal fur can easily be reproduced artificially. The only justification therefore is that the animal was once alive, which means that it was used for no other pleasure than knowing it was a real animal.

How sad that this can be a pleasure worth thousands of Pounds/Dollars and the deaths of hundreds of creatures that don't even make good eating!!!!! :devil: :devil:

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by clocker@1 March 2004 - 23:53
Irrelevant.

The topic title and the posted article refer to hamster coats.
The questions he asks are about medical research.

Do you not see a disconnect there?
Yes i do and that was my intention my question is about animal rights and i want to know other peoples opinions not voice my own... o.k?

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by sara5564@2 March 2004 - 00:17
A Different debate entirely I agree with Clocker (Hi mate, long time no see) :) ,

Firstly, If the topic is about vivisection for medical purposes, then it should be stated clearly rather than snuck in as an emotive issue, right at the end.

I do not see the connection between killing animals purely for their skins, for the production of burgers, or the use in medical experiments. All are different debates in my view.

I enjoy the occasional steak, and thank medical research for having kept many people I care about alive and healthy. I also have no problem with the use of animal skins where that animal was also a food animal, this is avoiding waste of our resources. A moral vegetarian is of course not obliged to feel that way.

However, I would like to personally protest against the cosmetic use of animals for the sake of so called luxury goods. This is just unacceptable in an age where the softness of animal fur can easily be reproduced artificially. The only justification therefore is that the animal was once alive, which means that it was used for no other pleasure than knowing it was a real animal.

How sad that this can be a pleasure worth thousands of Pounds/Dollars and the deaths of hundreds of creatures that don't even make good eating!!!!! :devil: :devil:
Sara has very elequently stated my views for me....

[sArA]

:beerchug:

Nice one

[Evil Gemini]

Hey better tested on animals then to test it on your children first

[Busyman]

I have no problem with the making of fur coats if:

1. The animal is used for something else.
Ex. I disected minks in high school for biology.

and/or
2. The animal is grossly overpopulated (which is an entirely different topic (pushing animals further back from their natural habitat)).

I agree with Evil Gemini about testing on animals before testing on us.

It's amazing how people want to give "human rights" to animals. Being sadistic is the extreme but if there is a humane way of killing animals that in the end serves a useful purpose, then I'm all for it.

It's also funny how, in most cases, there is a bigger fight put up for animals that are cute and cuddly or used as pets.
Insects are never in equation.

Certain animal rights activists need to shut-up and focus there energies on more useful things.
If one were to throw blood on my fur coat, I'd gladly throw HCl and bleach on their burlap jacket (maybe some will actually get on them :D ).

[j2k4]

This thread should be subtitled "Common Sense".

Kudos to Clocker, Sara (hey, girl!) and Busyman for enunciating it.

I think hamsters deserve coats as much as anyone. ;)

[Busyman]

Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 01:43
This thread should be subtitled "Common Sense".

Kudos to Clocker, Sara (hey, girl!) and Busyman for enunciating it.

I think hamsters deserve coats as much as anyone. ;)
Bwut dwa bwad pweopwle wanna twake dwa fwur cwoats away. :(

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 March 2004 - 02:47--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 March 2004 - 02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@2 March 2004 - 01:43
This thread should be subtitled "Common Sense".

Kudos to Clocker, Sara (hey, girl&#33;) and Busyman for enunciating it.

I think hamsters deserve coats as much as anyone. ;)
Bwut dwa bwad pweopwle wanna twake dwa fwur cwoats away. :( [/b][/quote]
Uh oh.

I&#39;m having some pretty heavy deja vu, here.

Or maybe it&#39;s vuja de.

Not too sure at the moment. :huh:

[Alex H]

Anyone see "Roger and Me", Michael Moore&#39;s first film? There was a scene with a woman who bred rabbits. They were worth more as meat than as pets, so she clubbed them to death to supplement her unemployment benefits.

There were so many complaints about that scene, and it was the only one the censors were concerned about (giving it an R rating).

No one minded a scene a few minutes later where a black guy was gunned down by some cops.

If only the black guy was cute and furry...

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H@2 March 2004 - 02:30
Anyone see "Roger and Me", Michael Moore&#39;s first film? There was a scene with a woman who bred rabbits. They were worth more as meat than as pets, so she clubbed them to death to supplement her unemployment benefits.

There were so many complaints about that scene, and it was the only one the censors were concerned about (giving it an R rating).

No one minded a scene a few minutes later where a black guy was gunned down by some cops.

If only the black guy was cute and furry...
Exactly...
I&#39;m black so no one better not fuck with my fur(ry) coat.

Club the minks

Strip them

and disect them.

They are only minks. <_<

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 03:51
I&#39;m black so no one better not fuck with my fur(ry) coat.


This sentence fairly screams for elucidation, Busyman. :D

[Wizard_Mon1]

Why shouldn&#39;t animals be given the same rights as humans? Are humans really supierior and in what ways? surely they have as much right as anything else on this planet, just because there not human dosn&#39;t mean there unequal to us. Just because we have monopoly dosn&#39;t mean it is correct. I would use the example of native americans and how unfairely they were treated (some say as animals) in terms of being pushed off thier natural habitat and confined, just because the settlers had more power dosn&#39;t mean it was morally correct.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by j2k4+2 March 2004 - 12:13--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 2 March 2004 - 12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 03:51
I&#39;m black so no one better not fuck with my fur(ry) coat.


This sentence fairly screams for elucidation, Busyman. :D [/b][/quote]
It was meant to be ambiguous :D .

[clocker]

Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 09:30




This sentence fairly screams for elucidation, Busyman. :D
It was meant to be ambiguous :D .
You suceeded.






Edit by RF: corrected quote tags

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 13:23
Why shouldn&#39;t animals be given the same rights as humans? Are humans really supierior and in what ways? surely they have as much right as anything else on this planet, just because there not human dosn&#39;t mean there unequal to us. Just because we have monopoly dosn&#39;t mean it is correct. I would use the example of native americans and how unfairely they were treated (some say as animals) in terms of being pushed off thier natural habitat and confined, just because the settlers had more power dosn&#39;t mean it was morally correct.
You have got to be kidding me..........

animals should be given the same rights......they are fucking animals.

What are going to get offended if I called them a name. Good lord.

If that&#39;s the case Wizard then stop eating meat. :lol:

And how can compare a Native American to a squirrel.

Native American&#39;s didn&#39;t have a problem killing bison.
Lions have no problem killing antelope.

Are humans superior?
....uh...yes.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 March 2004 - 17:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 March 2004 - 17:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 13:23
Why shouldn&#39;t animals be given the same rights as humans? Are humans really supierior and in what ways? surely they have as much right as anything else on this planet, just because there not human dosn&#39;t mean there unequal to us. Just because we have monopoly dosn&#39;t mean it is correct. I would use the example of native americans and how unfairely they were treated (some say as animals) in terms of being pushed off thier natural habitat and confined, just because the settlers had more power dosn&#39;t mean it was morally correct.
You have got to be kidding me..........

animals should be given the same rights......they are fucking animals.

What are going to get offended if I called them a name. Good lord.

If that&#39;s the case Wizard then stop eating meat. :lol:

And how can compare a Native American to a squirrel.

Native American&#39;s didn&#39;t have a problem killing bison.
Lions have no problem killing antelope.

Are humans superior?
....uh...yes. [/b][/quote]
Busy, dude I was just playing devils advocate.

But if your gonna answer like that then at least explain yourself, native americans respect animals as they are part of nature and they see them as thier ancestors, so it&#39;s a completely different circumstance.

How are we supierior?

Yes, i do eat meat and i am happy to carry on but there must be a line somewhere that shouldn&#39;t be crossed? Why should some animals be allowed to be treated worst than others?

And if a tree falls on you in the forest does anyone care? :( [/joke]

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+2 March 2004 - 14:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 &#064; 2 March 2004 - 14:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 13:23
Why should some animals be allowed to be treated worst than others?

And if a tree falls on you in the forest does anyone care? :( [/joke] [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t know. That&#39;s a question I&#39;ve had.

Cute and cuddly seems to win.

I say eat dog if it&#39;s available.

In some places people eat pussy.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;)

[Busyman]

Originally posted by j2k4+2 March 2004 - 14:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 2 March 2004 - 14:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;) [/b][/quote]
The answer I should have gave the Wizard.

......nicely summed and very brief

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 March 2004 - 15:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 March 2004 - 15:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 14:32
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;)
The answer I should have gave the Wizard.

......nicely summed and very brief [/b][/quote]
Glad to help, B., and thank you.

I&#39;ve been through this one many times. ;)

[internet.weather]

Animals have no thoughts worth sharing and they are not just humans, so they have no right to rights. But that does not mean that humans can be cruel, because that makes them bad humans. Humans can eat meat and wear leather shoes, so why not fur coats? As long as they are not cruel to do it. Then the animals can sleep - perchance to dream, aye there&#39;s the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come ?

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by j2k4+2 March 2004 - 18:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 2 March 2004 - 18:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:42

Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 14:32
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;)
The answer I should have gave the Wizard.

......nicely summed and very brief
Glad to help, B., and thank you.

I&#39;ve been through this one many times. ;) [/b][/quote]
So is that it then end of discussion j2k4 said his piece and thats it. <_< :P

Yes, i know it is humans that convey rights and that animals cannot understand them. Just because animals don&#39;t have the same developed traits as humans does not mean they arn&#39;t worth considering. Animals have developed charicteristics that suit thier surroundings and if we then change there environment because it suits us arn&#39;t we out of line. If you take whats happened to bears, as weve destroyed thier home they have moved closer to the city which they are no way near well apapted for, is it our right to do this to them because we are human and we are the best?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+2 March 2004 - 19:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 2 March 2004 - 19:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by j2k4+2 March 2004 - 18:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 &#064; 2 March 2004 - 18:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:42

Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 14:32
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;)
The answer I should have gave the Wizard.

......nicely summed and very brief
Glad to help, B., and thank you.

I&#39;ve been through this one many times. ;) [/b]
So is that it then end of discussion j2k4 said his piece and thats it. <_< :P

Yes, i know it is humans that convey rights and that animals cannot understand them. Just because animals don&#39;t have the same developed traits as humans does not mean they arn&#39;t worth considering. Animals have developed charicteristics that suit thier surroundings and if we then change there environment because it suits us arn&#39;t we out of line. If you take whats happened to bears, as weve destroyed thier home they have moved closer to the city which they are no way near well apapted for, is it our right to do this to them because we are human and we are the best? [/b][/quote]
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman
2. The animal is grossly overpopulated (which is an entirely different topic (pushing animals further back from their natural habitat)).[/quote]

[Wizard_Mon1]

Why is that we get to descide whether another species is over populated? I mean we don&#39;t go and kill other humans when there is over population.

Busy i don&#39;t really understand that post from the way it is worded so i interprated it, could you explain further?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 19:20
Why is that we get to descide whether another species is over populated? I mean we don&#39;t go and kill other humans when there is over population.

Busy i don&#39;t really understand that post from the way it is worded so i interprated it, could you explain further?
Hmmmm because we are human. :lol: :lol:

If cockroaches are running rampant in your house........KILL THEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Actually we as humans are overpopulated. In knowing that do we kill us or animals?

I wish my country would stop allowing SO MANY aliens here. Alot of them are flooding in from Mexico (for cheap labor).

Overpopulation is one main root of crime.

[Wizard_Mon1]

What makes being human so special?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 19:33
What makes being human so special?
I don&#39;t know, you tell me............from a ducks perspective.

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 March 2004 - 23:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 March 2004 - 23:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 19:33
What makes being human so special?
I don&#39;t know, you tell me............from a ducks perspective. [/b][/quote]
LOL - Humans don&#39;t have to fly south or get eaten with hoisin sauce. :drool:

[Biggles]

I beg to differ on a small point.

Over-population has often been a cause of war and conflict over land and has been a major feature of human history. I believe Hitler called it "living room". Humans have been killed in millions for this very reason - not least, most of the Native American population.

I would also suggest that there is a difference between vanity and necessity. Some drugs require testing - many end up having a dual purpose and are subsequently used by Vets. However, making beagles smoke or killing the last snow leopard to make a coat is, in my opinion, just obscene.

With regards "the coat", hamsters are short lived little creatures and I am sure if one waited a short time they would relinquish their coats without a fuss (however, I wouldn&#39;t like to be the poor sod that had to stitch enough hamster coats together to make a human sized garment - sweated labour springs to mind).

If anyone is interested, the shop in Scotland has ceased selling said coat. They received feedback from the people that mattered, their customers.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Biggles@2 March 2004 - 20:08
I beg to differ on a small point.

Over-population has often been a cause of war and conflict over land and has been a major feature of human history. I believe Hitler called it "living room". Humans have been killed in millions for this very reason - not least, most of the Native American population.

I would also suggest that there is a difference between vanity and necessity. Some drugs require testing - many end up having a dual purpose and are subsequently used by Vets. However, making beagles smoke or killing the last snow leopard to make a coat is, in my opinion, just obscene.

With regards "the coat", hamsters are short lived little creatures and I am sure if one waited a short time they would relinquish their coats without a fuss (however, I wouldn&#39;t like to be the poor sod that had to stitch enough hamster coats together to make a human sized garment - sweated labour springs to mind).

If anyone is interested, the shop in Scotland has ceased selling said coat. They received feedback from the people that mattered, their customers.
Don&#39;t beg, just differ. :lol:

Regarding your first paragraph I don&#39;t see how you differed.

I agree that with these hamster coats they could just wait until they die. They could just push back their manufacturing versus breeding schedule and they will be forever on schedule.
---------
With overpopulation there are less jobs, less food, etc. Some then resort to theft, murder, etc.
Applying this to animals, more and more I see forests being torn down to make way for new housing developments and strip malls (mostly housing).

Around here, deer are being seen more and more right in new housing developments.

As it keeps on we will witness the fall of society.

Humans need to be content and stop breeding so much. We are like viruses (thank you Agent Smith ;) :lol: )

[Biggles]

Originally posted by Busyman+2 March 2004 - 23:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 2 March 2004 - 23:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@2 March 2004 - 19:33
What makes being human so special?
I don&#39;t know, you tell me............from a ducks perspective. [/b][/quote]
As in watching us plummet to the ground sort of perspective?

:lol:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+2 March 2004 - 20:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 &#064; 2 March 2004 - 20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 18:53

Originally posted by Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:42

Originally posted by j2k4@2 March 2004 - 14:32
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@2 March 2004 - 15:14
In some places people eat pussy.
I have been to such places. :w00t:

Animal lovers, (I am one) please note:

Rights cannot be conferred upon animate objects (animals) incapable of understanding even the concept of same.

To the extent that animals are treated well at all is due to human largesse, and nothing more. ;)
The answer I should have gave the Wizard.

......nicely summed and very brief
Glad to help, B., and thank you.

I&#39;ve been through this one many times. ;)
So is that it then end of discussion j2k4 said his piece and thats it. <_< :P

Yes, i know it is humans that convey rights and that animals cannot understand them. Just because animals don&#39;t have the same developed traits as humans does not mean they arn&#39;t worth considering. Animals have developed charicteristics that suit thier surroundings and if we then change there environment because it suits us arn&#39;t we out of line. If you take whats happened to bears, as weve destroyed thier home they have moved closer to the city which they are no way near well apapted for, is it our right to do this to them because we are human and we are the best?[/b][/quote]
Oh, come now, Wizard-

I&#39;m saying hamsters are incapable of possessing rights, as they are incapable of exercising them.

Animals are worthy of precisely as much consideration/protection as humans deem them worthy. ;)

[internet.weather]

I say again leather shoes, hamster fur coats, the difference would be what ?

[4th gen]

Some animal rights campaigners are scum. Car bombing research scientists, defacing property, arson attatcks etc. are all so insanely disproportionate in comparison to the acts of said scientists.
Thus, I have very, very little time for any animal rights protestors opinions or beliefs.
Fux them all, I say

(wow, that has to be one of my most intelligent posts ever)

[lynx]

Originally posted by internet.weather@3 March 2004 - 18:03
I say again leather shoes, hamster fur coats, the difference would be what ?
I&#39;ve never tried hamster steak, so I don&#39;t know. <_<

[Busyman]

Originally posted by lynx+3 March 2004 - 17:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 3 March 2004 - 17:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-internet.weather@3 March 2004 - 18:03
I say again leather shoes, hamster fur coats, the difference would be what ?
I&#39;ve never tried hamster steak, so I don&#39;t know. <_< [/b][/quote]
Clothing not food lynx. <_<

[ilw]

i think he was trying to make a point about what you do with the rest of the cow

[shn]

Fur coat? :w00t:

[Biggles]

Originally posted by shn@3 March 2004 - 23:33
Fur coat? :w00t:
Is this a desire for sartorial elegance or one of those strange furry fetishes? :blink:

[hobbes]

To simply kill an animal for a "trophy" seems to trivialize the existance of that creature.

The fur issue is kind of a &#39;tweener, as it can be used to keep warm. But let us look at the real reason behind buying one. It is to make the statement: "look at me, I just spent a ridiculous amount of money on this gaudy coat for no other reason than I can, or at least, I want you to think that". It&#39;s just like animal bling-bling, an attempt to project importance by flashing the cash. Much more efficient, comfortable and cost effective means of keeping warm are available.

My Grandfather had an elephant tusk, a black rhino horn, antelope head with horns, bearskin rug, elephant foot trash can, leopard skin wall hanging, etc.. These are obviously pointless souveniers, and are a bit of an embarassment today. Nice thing that human vanity has pushed these animals to the point of extinction. Extinction is a not a worry with hamsters, so atleast, that problem is avoided.

Old hamsters have nasty hair just like old humans, so waiting for their deaths solves nothing as the coats would be mangy.

If people want to buy hamster coats, well, I&#39;ll just laugh at your superficiality and note that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Unless you are a pimp, then the fur is a requisite.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@3 March 2004 - 20:25
To simply kill an animal for a "trophy" seems to trivialize the existance of that creature.

The fur issue is kind of a &#39;tweener, as it can be used to keep warm. But let us look at the real reason behind buying one. It is to make the statement: "look at me, I just spent a ridiculous amount of money on this gaudy coat for no other reason than I can, or at least, I want you to think that". It&#39;s just like animal bling-bling, an attempt to project importance by flashing the cash. Much more efficient, comfortable and cost effective means of keeping warm are available.

My Grandfather had an elephant tusk, a black rhino horn, antelope head with horns, bearskin rug, elephant foot trash can, leopard skin wall hanging, etc.. These are obviously pointless souveniers, and are a bit of an embarassment today. Nice thing that human vanity has pushed these animals to the point of extinction. Extinction is a not a worry with hamsters, so atleast, that problem is avoided.

Old hamsters have nasty hair just like old humans, so waiting for their deaths solves nothing as the coats would be mangy.

If people want to buy hamster coats, well, I&#39;ll just laugh at your superficiality and note that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Unless you are a pimp, then the fur is a requisite.
Hmmm I have a fur coat and I like the way it looks.

That&#39;s enough for me.

Efficient means of keeping warm?
Well that eliminates leather, down is better.....well not unless leather has a nice down lining.......uh well on second thought.....fuck it.......give me a fur coat. <_<

Hunting an animal to extinction is just plain idiocy.

You are getting rid off your livelihood and food source.

They need to have mink farms...whoops...they already do.

[ilw]

it seems to me the vast majority of people accept the killing of animals provided their deaths serve a purpose, the discussion simply revolves around how much of a purpose does it take to justify killing an animal. Imo the higher the standards a person has for justifying an animals death the higher moral ground they can claim, but everythings relative, I doubt anyones claims to live completely free of animal exploitation


Efficient means of keeping warm?
Well that eliminates leather,

As i think lynx was saying earlier, cows are killed primarily for meat, which it seems most people accept as a more valid reason than clothing, as such the leather is a bonus. Using this resource is not equivalent to killing hamsters solely for their skin and in fact not using it would imo be similar in style to what they must do to the thousands of skinned hamster corpses.

[internet.weather]

So as long as I eat the hamster meat it&#39;s OK that I make a coat out of it&#39;s fur. I have no problem with that.

Kentucky Fried Hamster anyone ?

[leftism]

Originally posted by Busyman
Hmmm I have a fur coat and I like the way it looks.

That&#39;s enough for me.

Why didnt you just buy a fur coat made from artificial fur? It would keep you just as warm, would look exactly the same and would cost half the price.

Taking all this into account, there must be another reason that you havent mentioned yet.

[clocker]

I understand that chickens taste a lot like hamsters.

Go pick on them, why don&#39;tcha?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman@4 March 2004 - 01:35
Hunting an animal to extinction is just plain idiocy.

You are getting rid off your livelihood and food source.

They need to have mink farms...whoops...they already do.
Yeah, I can&#39;t go a day without eating Elephant, leopard, antelope, black rhino and bear.

Oh wait, I don&#39;t eat any of those animals. I leave the corpses of these animals to rot and take my silly trophy. That is how humans, in search of status, and in appeasement of vanity, drive animals to extinction.

Mink or hamster coats- both for fools and their money. Does fake fur clash will real gold teef?

As for leather coats, why waste the hide, the animal is already dead. And when I fall off my motorcycle at 85 mph, the leather takes the road rash instead of my skin.

[clocker]

Originally posted by hobbes@3 March 2004 - 19:41


As for leather coats, why waste the hide, the animal is already dead. And when I fall off my motorcycle at 85 mph, the leather takes the road rash instead of my skin.
I&#39;d stop doing that if I were you...

[hobbes]

Originally posted by clocker+4 March 2004 - 04:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker &#064; 4 March 2004 - 04:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@3 March 2004 - 19:41


As for leather coats, why waste the hide, the animal is already dead. And when I fall off my motorcycle at 85 mph, the leather takes the road rash instead of my skin.
I&#39;d stop doing that if I were you...[/b][/quote]
Since cows have evolved over millions of years to survive highspeed motorcycle spill outs, why should I not take advantage of this this? Duh&#33;

[clocker]

Ah, now I see.
The milk, beef, and fuel aspects were all just secondary to the cow&#39;s main purpose in the grand scheme of things.

Well, Praise the Lord and pass the Kushitani&#39;s&#33;

[Busyman]

Some animal rights folks are mighty judgemental fucks (and I mean that in the kindest way).

Who the fuck are they to tell me

"Well only wear the coat if the animal is eaten".

It&#39;s a coat



Go graze in the wilderness or forage for berries and shit. :lol: :lol:

[clocker]

Originally posted by Busyman@3 March 2004 - 21:53
Some animal rights folks are mighty judgemental fucks (and I mean that in the kindest way).
Go graze in the wilderness or forage for berries and shit. :lol: :lol:





If they did would you pay attention then?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by clocker+4 March 2004 - 01:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker &#064; 4 March 2004 - 01:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@3 March 2004 - 21:53
Some animal rights folks are mighty judgemental fucks (and I mean that in the kindest way).
Go graze in the wilderness or forage for berries and shit. :lol: :lol:





If they did would you pay attention then? [/b][/quote]
No. That&#39;s them.

That&#39;s funny there folks out there who don&#39;t eat meat nor processed foods.

I saw this sick diet on Penn and Teller Bullshit where it involved eating only "organic foods". It was some nasty shit.

[leftism]

Originally posted by leftism
Why didnt you just buy a fur coat made from artificial fur? It would keep you just as warm, would look exactly the same and would cost half the price.

Taking all this into account, there must be another reason that you havent mentioned yet.

I know how important it is for you to answer all the questions that are put to you Busyman. :D Whats your answer?

I bet he starts going on about "reading comprehension" and screaming that he answered the question 3 months before I asked it

[shn]

Has anyone here ever tasted artificial crab or lobster meat? It taste horrible. Why does it taste horrible? Because it&#39;s not the real thing. It&#39;s artificial

Why settle for a cheap imitation if you can have the real thing?

And if people want to eat, or use hampsters for fur then that&#39;s their choice.
I can think of many cultures that eat a lot more things worse than hampsters and kill other animals for a purpose worse than making coats to keep warm and look stylish.
And what makes some people think that the fur thats made in this day in age is what it claims to be.

Would some of you know the difference between mink and hamster, or fox and rat.?

You would be suprised what a little "artifical" coloring can do to thoose coats. :)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman@4 March 2004 - 06:53
Some animal rights folks are mighty judgemental fucks (and I mean that in the kindest way).

Who the fuck are they to tell me

"Well only wear the coat if the animal is eaten".

It&#39;s a coat



Go graze in the wilderness or forage for berries and shit. :lol:&nbsp; :lol:
Ya, I get your point Busy, that is why I called this issue a &#39;tweener.

I&#39;m sure I could live a full life without eating another animal, but I will continue to eat them because it gives me great pleasure. Steak, shrimp scampi, bar-b-qued beef ribs, fried chicken, turkey and dressing. Hell, when I order chinese food, I never even bother with the rice, I tell them to keep it.

I think we would all agree that animals should not be treated cruelly and that if the hamsters are treated well for "x" amount of time then killed humanely, that probably beats existing in the wild where disease and predation probably would cause a shorter life expectancy than the "farmed" animals and a far more miserable death.

It would seem that well feed and exercised humping hamsters would have the fullest and shiniest coats, so it might be in the best interest of the farm to treat them well to produce the best product.

This is unlike the "meat" industry that shackles animals to keep the meat tender.

Humans are not like hamsters. Humans understand that ultimately they will die, a very unique human burden, hamsters understand that they like lettace. If a hamster just doesn&#39;t wake up one day, what&#39;s the big deal? It wasn&#39;t planning on writing it&#39;s life opus that afternoon, it was just going to be another day of eat, shit, and sleep.

I still don&#39;t want a hamster coat, though.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes+4 March 2004 - 21:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 4 March 2004 - 21:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@4 March 2004 - 06:53
Some animal rights folks are mighty judgemental fucks (and I mean that in the kindest way).

Who the fuck are they to tell me

"Well only wear the coat if the animal is eaten".

It&#39;s a coat



Go graze in the wilderness or forage for berries and shit. :lol: :lol:
Ya, I get your point Busy, that is why I called this issue a &#39;tweener.

I&#39;m sure I could live a full life without eating another animal, but I will continue to eat them because it gives me great pleasure. Steak, shrimp scampi, bar-b-qued beef ribs, fried chicken, turkey and dressing. Hell, when I order chinese food, I never even bother with the rice, I tell them to keep it.

I think we would all agree that animals should not be treated cruelly and that if the hamsters are treated well for "x" amount of time then killed humanely, that probably beats existing in the wild where disease and predation probably would cause a shorter life expectancy than the "farmed" animals and a far more miserable death.

It would seem that well feed and exercised humping hamsters would have the fullest and shiniest coats, so it might be in the best interest of the farm to treat them well to produce the best product.

This is unlike the "meat" industry that shackles animals to keep the meat tender.

Humans are not like hamsters. Humans understand that ultimately they will die, a very unique human burden, hamsters understand that they like lettace. If a hamster just doesn&#39;t wake up one day, what&#39;s the big deal? It wasn&#39;t planning on writing it&#39;s life opus that afternoon, it was just going to be another day of eat, shit, and sleep.

I still don&#39;t want a hamster coat, though. [/b][/quote]
Ok man I agree with that tweener thingamajig, whatchamacallit, doohicky. :D

[lynx]

Originally posted by hobbes@5 March 2004 - 00:56
This is unlike the "meat" industry that shackles animals to keep the meat tender.
You are allowed to shackle your animals? That sort of behaviour would almost certainly result in heavy fines and probably jail terms in Europe.

It&#39;s no wonder veggies get so upset.

[sArA]

What about veal production?