Spain Terrorist Attack

[dudevenezuela]

At least 192 people dead

Who could have done this?
ETA ?al-Qaida ? Both ? other ?

[kAb]

Very sad.

And I see no time is being devoted to this on American news networks. Except MSNBC, and a little CNN.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by dudevenezuela@12 March 2004 - 05:22
At least 192 people dead

Who could have done this?
ETA ?al-Qaida ? Both ? other ?
It is typically Al-Qaida style.


I fear for a new period of cowardattacks like this.

Yogi

[j2k4]

Originally posted by kAb@12 March 2004 - 01:43
Very sad.

And I see no time is being devoted to this on American news networks. Except MSNBC, and a little CNN.

!???????!!!??????

FOXNEWS is all over it, kAb.

Al Qaida is taking credit, I guess.

I think a corner has been turned. :(

[Evil Gemini]

Man if i had super powers i would rip a pole out of the ground fly at like 100MPH with pole and ram it up all the Al Qaida asses like a fucking kabbab :angry:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Evil Gemini@12 March 2004 - 12:55
Man if i had super powers i would rip a pole out of the ground fly at like 100MPH with pole and ram it up all the Al Qaida asses like a fucking kabbab  :angry:
Well put, Evil- ;)

I do not find myself inclined to understand their pique.

Perhaps that could be deposited in the same, uh...place as your pole, eh? :D

[100%]

What a tragedy

I dont get it
Why Madrid......?Why Spain?
unless there is somelink with the ETA, or ETA got sponsored by AlQ

I dont get it

i understand-What Spain has done or not done to the Vasks but
What has Espana done to the ALQ?

[Wizard_Mon1]

Al Qaeda admit blame. (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a1DyBsx9co8w&refer=us)

Does spain have any history with them? If not it seems senseless, like a jab at humanity in general.

[~FunK_mOb~]

Originally posted by Zedaxax@12 March 2004 - 18:55

What has Espana done to the ALQ?
According to the news Spain is one of the biggest,faithfull allies of the U.S. and they also have troops stationed in Iraq.But still,that doesn't justify the terrorist attacks on innocent people that have nothing to do with it all.

A theory is that the ETA helped ALQ in providing the explosives because they have a big network set up for this in Spain.

Another,f*cked up version of the attacks is that Aznar or at least his political party have something to do with the attacks because the ellections are next week,thus trying to get people to vote for him/them again because the people now feel treathened and from what I've heard his governement is supposed to be the one that can give them security again.

What to do with terrorists?
Kill 'em all!

If they don't care avbout innocent peoples lives,why should we care about theirs,or why should we give them a fair trial?
Hang,shoot or behead them is what I think should be done.

[sArA]

I would not be surprised if ETA and Al Q have worked together on this. If I was OBL I would take any opportunity to increase my network of terror. Sick it is...mad it is not...mad people would not be able to control themselves sufficiently to secretly plan such an attack...that is the worrying part.

These people are actually sane, fanatics yes but sane none the less. A nutter could not be trusted and could not be predicted. This means that these cold and calculating killers could literally be the neighbour that you meet down the Gym, chat to, and probably quite like...now that is far more scary than obviously mad zealots...

[4th gen]

Originally posted by sara5564@12 March 2004 - 19:16
I would not be surprised if ETA and Al Q have worked together
ETA have denied responsibility. It is not typically their style to attack civilian targets, when they do, they give warning.

[Sparkle1984]

If they don't care avbout innocent peoples lives,why should we care about theirs,or why should we give them a fair trial?
Hang,shoot or behead them is what I think should be done.

Do you have any idea about global social affairs?
How can the problem ever be solved if you don't tackle the root cause of why people commit these attacks - such as the fact that they may feel oppressed by the global economic situation which favours rich countries to the detriment of developing countries.

I am certainly not saying that these attacks are justified, and I sympathise with all the victims of terrorism and war in the world - of course no violence can never be justified; all I am saying is that the root causes need to be looked into.

If the authorities themselves do not respect the international law, and they start executing people or suspecting them of being terrorists without giving them a fair trial, then what kind of example does that set to the ordinary citizens?

[lynx]

Originally posted by ~FunK_mOb~@12 March 2004 - 19:01
If they don't care avbout innocent peoples lives,why should we care about theirs,or why should we give them a fair trial?
Hang,shoot or behead them is what I think should be done.
The very fact that we do care about innocent peoples lives is exactly why they must get a fair trial if caught. Otherwise we are descending to their level, and that's another victory for them.

If and when they are found guilty, then they should get everything that's coming to them.

[Rat Faced]

I'm saddened by the Spanish Government insisting the UN link ETA to the bombings, when so far ETA have denied it, and the initial findings are that the explosives used are not those usually associated with ETA, but are those used by some Islamic Fundamentalist Groups.

To try and score political points in this tragedy is sickening... If ETA is linked to the bombing the existing Government gains votes, If Islamic it loses votes.....



Meanwhile, Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the recovery of an unexploded bomb believed to be part of the attacks had "opened new leads".

A rucksack containing 10kgs of explosive, 1kg of shrapnel, a timing device, and a mobile phone allowing the bomb to be set off by remote control was found in a police station, where officers had deposited it believing the bag belonged to a victim.

Radio station Cadena Ser reported the explosive in the rucksack was Spanish-made "Special C" explosive.

It quoted anti-terrorist sources as saying that the material was "not of a kind normally used by ETA" but by "another terrorist group linked to Islamic extremists"

Source (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8953386%255E1702,00.html)


The UN Security Council has “strongly” condemned yesterday’s terrorist attacks and named the Basque separatist group ETA as perpetrator of the crime.
Despite hesitation of some members, it named the militant outfit as having a hand in the strikes at the urging of Spain, an act which some diplomats said was unusual as the Council does not name terrorist groups until their identity has been firmly established. Council diplomats said that initially, several members were opposed to identifying ETA as perpetrators of the crime till final determination was made but Spain lobbied hard to get the name included

Source (http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=38109)


Its too early to tell for certain who was responsible, however it does not fit the MO of ETA. Whilst perfectly capable of attacking Civilian Targets they usually give a warning.... much like the IRA often used to do in the UK. There are more political points to be gained that way by a group with a specific political agenda.

[~FunK_mOb~]

Ofcourse the root of the problem needs to be tackled in the first place.
But what I'm trying to say is that when people want to fight for their rights by killing other innocent people they don't deserve it.No matter what the reason is for doing these drastic things,terrorists should not be threated with respect once they've been found guilty for their actions.
Ok,I can't say what goes through the minds of these persons,but even if they have been oppressed or discriminated for ages,it still isn't a reason to go out and kill people that just happen to live in the country that's being the oppressor or is an alliance of theU.S.(or any other country for that matter).
From what I understand about it all,ALQ is doing terrorists attacks against the US because they "hate" the islam(to put it simple).ANd ETA is doing terrorist attacks because they so badly want their own independable country.It's just plain stupid!Same goes for the problems in Ireland.I mean,what kind of narrowminded person are you if you're going out to kill people because they don't think or have the same religion as you? :blink:

If I could I would explain it more better but my english isn't all that to start of a deep conversation or discussion about this,or to fully explain what i'm trying to say.Hope you understand what Im' trying to say though.

And yes,starting at the root of all the problems is the best way to go.
But it's not because this doesn't happen,or not thoroughly enough,that it justifies for people to go out and do terrorist attacks.

[Sparkle1984]

I never said that their oppression justifies them to go out and kill innocent people, all I was really saying was that the authorities should try to look for the root cause in the first place, so these saddening attacks would be less likely to happen.

I don't think the governments (of any country) are perfect either - they often spend money on wars without spending enough on healthcare/education/social care etc.

War is terrorism, but with a bigger budget.

[MagicNakor]

Does spain have any history with them? If not it seems senseless, like a jab at humanity in general.

The current quote in my paper about al-Qaida's reasoning for the train bombing was to penetrate "one of the pillars of the crusade alliance, Spain."

:ninja:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@12 March 2004 - 20:12

Does spain have any history with them? If not it seems senseless, like a jab at humanity in general.

The current quote in my paper about al-Qaida's reasoning for the train bombing was to penetrate "one of the pillars of the crusade alliance, Spain."

:ninja:
...due to their alliance with the U.S., in other words. ;)

[MagicNakor]

That could be inferred, yes. ;)

:ninja:

[seiya_33]

my brother is one of those conspiracy freaks , he says the goverment is involved in some way due to the recent elections , i really dont know who is to blame.

i have some friends in madrid that i have come to really care about and i was relieved to find out that nothing happened to them , but they told me that they knew a couple of the people that were there an they have not been able to contact them , i just cant imagine what they era feeling right now.

[<TROUBLE^MAKER>]

They kept saying on the tube France is upping it&#39;s security alerts that&#39;s the last place they are going to attack.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by <TROUBLE^MAKER>@13 March 2004 - 01:33
They kept saying on the tube France is upping it&#39;s security alerts that&#39;s the last place they are going to attack.
Al Qaida apparently says we&#39;re (the U.S.) next-again.

France is an interesting case as re: terrorism; so are Germany and Russia.

I have some suspicions about any prospective terrorist acts which might occur in those countries. ;)

[<TROUBLE^MAKER>]

Originally posted by j2k4+13 March 2004 - 00:13--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 13 March 2004 - 00:13)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-<TROUBLE^MAKER>@13 March 2004 - 01:33
They kept saying on the tube France is upping it&#39;s security alerts that&#39;s the last place they are going to attack.
Al Qaida apparently says we&#39;re (the U.S.) next-again.

France is an interesting case as re: terrorism; so are Germany and Russia.

I have some suspicions about any prospective terrorist acts which might occur in those countries. ;) [/b][/quote]
It just blows my mind wondering why they haven&#39;t struck again in the US.

Russia was/is pretty friendly to Iraq because they want the money they are owed. Tho at the same time they have that hornets nest called Chechnya, that makes THEM a target for Al-quada types.

France has the largest Muslim population of Muslims in Europe, but they have a history of granting them asylum one example is the AYATOLLAH CHOMEINI forced in to exile by the Shaw of IRAN.

[tracydani]

Originally posted by sara5564@12 March 2004 - 22:16


These people are actually sane, fanatics yes but sane none the less. This means that these cold and calculating killers could literally be the neighbour that you meet down the Gym, chat to, and probably quite like...now that is far more scary than obviously mad zealots...
This exact thing happened here on a military base where I work.

A young lady and her boyfriend, along with whatever local group of idiots decided they were going to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of 911. The only thing that stopped them was that she spoke to a friend and made a comment about not going near the base that day.

The local police found them with enough ingredients to do very serious damage here.

After we all found out what was going on, that was the scariest thing of all to me. She worked at a convenient store right across the parking lot from where I work and we saw each other practically every day and knew each other to make small talk whenever I went to get a soda or something.

She was a very nice person and seemed well liked by all her customers. I didn&#39;t know much more then that about her though. I could just imagine how all of her co-workers must have felt. To know that the person they all worked with day in and out and quite possibly even spent some time after work hanging out with was planning to kill as many of them/us as happened to be near when they did this thing.

I&#39;m not sure how I would have slept after that if I was any closer to her. I&#39;d always be wondering about the people around me for quite a while.

TD

[kAb]

I just read,

March 11, 2004 - Date of Spain Attacks
911 days after Sept. 11, 2001
:unsure:

[Shiranai_Baka]

Ok im really interested by these stories.. but can someone elaborate on the acronyms here? Its pretty hard to figure out the terrorist groups&#39; names e.g.: ETA etc.. etc..

[h1]

I just heard on the radio that 5 suspects have been taken into custody, waiting for more. :ninja:

[Biggles]

The probability that it was AQ who attacked the Spanish seems to be growing with the arrest of 5 suspects (3 Morrocans and 2 Indians).

Some of the protests in the Madrid streets have become anti-government. The chants have turned from "No to ETA" to "your war our dead". Interestingly, not all news channels are translating the chants yet, although most are using the same Euro News feeds.

With regards attacks elsewhere, it is difficult to predict what will happen. It must be remembered that although France, Germany and Russia were anti the war in Iraq they were pro the war against the Taliban in Aghanistan and Germany has the largest contingent of European soldiers in Aghanistan (something that appears to be totally over-looked by some commentators). AQ trained most of the terrorists that have attacked Russians in Chechnya and many hundreds of Russians have died at their hands. AQ also has links to terrorists in Georgia and elsewhere in the former Soviet Union. Indeed the overwhelming majority of the 50,000 or so trained in AQ camps either fight in Afghanistan or in the former Soviet Union.

In addition to supporting the war in Afghanistan, France has recently enacted legislation which has deeply angered Muslim fundamentalists. It would be a foolish French Government that ignored these facts - and whilst many like to accuse the French of a multitude of vices, foolishness is not one of them.

I think it would be overly simplistic to simply equate support for the war in Iraq with likelihood of attack although AQ has does have political reasons to put coalition countries to the top of their hit list.

First and foremost AQ wants to be seen as the natural bulwark against the west. The primary purpose of this is to overthrow pro-western governments in Arabic countries. I have heard some arguments stating that the attack shows that there was a link between Saddam and AQ. This is fundamentaly wrong headed. It, rather, shows that AQ has put a priority in replacing Saddam with an Islamic government (which Saddam for all his evil ways clearly was not). AQ wishes to make Iraq a battlefield for its ideology and wishes to show disaffected Iraqis that they can strike at the heart of the infidels in their own countries. It could be argued that AQ are actully delighted that 1) we overthrew someone resistant to their way of thinking (being an Islamic fundamentalist was a fast track to Saddam&#39;s jails) and 2) we have given them a place to pitch battle. It may also be argued (by the cynical) that we in the west are not entirely unhappy in keeping most of AQ&#39;s forces tied up fighting in the ME. The Iraqis are just the poor sods stuck in the middle.

However, the attacks will not be exclusively centred on coalition countries over the longer term as AQ has a bone to pick with all those involved in Afghanistan too. It is merely the recent visibility of the coalition forces that has focused AQ attention.

By nature these attacks are also opportunistic and the closeness of Morroco to Spain will have had a bearing. Nevertheless, once in the EU, travel is relatively easy and from Spain these attackers could have gone anywhere. A bit like getting from Mexico to the US is the tricky bit - but once in the US going from Texas to Iowa is no big deal.

As a counter to the fairly dry and academic argument above, my sympathies go out to all the bereaved and injured of the insane attrocity of the Madrid bombings.

[sArA]

Well, no one has mentioned the fact that we have not had an attack yet here in the UK...Makes one rather uncomfortable I can tell you.

[yonki]

Originally posted by Shiranai_Baka@13 March 2004 - 20:09
Ok im really interested by these stories.. but can someone elaborate on the acronyms here? Its pretty hard to figure out the terrorist groups&#39; names e.g.: ETA etc.. etc..
ETA= Euskadi ta Askaltasuna=Basque Country and Freedom. Its almost funny that they use that name.

But they probably arent behind the killing this time.

[h1]

Originally posted by yonki@13 March 2004 - 17:29
But they probably arent behind the killing this time.
That&#39;s quite true, the ETA does not usually attack civilians and when they do, they give fair warning.

[kAb]

Originally posted by j2k4+12 March 2004 - 07:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 &#064; 12 March 2004 - 07:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@12 March 2004 - 01:43
Very sad.

And I see no time is being devoted to this on American news networks. Except MSNBC, and a little CNN.

&#33;???????&#33;&#33;&#33;??????

FOXNEWS is all over it, kAb.

Al Qaida is taking credit, I guess.

I think a corner has been turned. :( [/b][/quote]
Quite right :)

Just took some time for all the networks to catch on that this was more newsworthy than martha stewart :rolleyes:

Corner? I live around a circle ;)