Question Needs Answering

[Spider_dude]

If toast always falls butter side down, and cats always land on their feet, what would happen if you strapped some toast to a cats back?

[Nimdock]

It would create a paradox that would lead to the destruction of the universe.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Spider_dude@16 March 2004 - 11:16
If toast always falls butter side down, and cats always land on their feet, what would happen if you strapped some toast to a cats back?
Is the toast strapped to the cat butter-side up or down?

This question also needs answering. ;)

[DanB]

The chance of the bread landing butter side down is directlly proportional to the cost of the carpet :)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by danb@16 March 2004 - 11:45
The chance of the bread landing butter side down is directlly proportional to the cost of the carpet :)
Yet another variable to consider. ;)

[uNz[i]]

Theres also the velocity of the cat to account for... will it be falling too fast to be able to turn itself feet side down before it hits the ground?

And on top of that, theres the thickness of the toast... :unsure:

[DanB]

Originally posted by uNz[i
,16 March 2004 - 16:12] And on top of that,  theres the thickness of the toast...  :unsure:
Good point, thick sliced toast will fall faster than thin sliced toast therefore giving the cat more time to rotate :unsure:

[Spider_dude]

Originally posted by danb+16 March 2004 - 15:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 16 March 2004 - 15:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-uNz&#091;i
,16 March 2004 - 16:12] And on top of that, theres the thickness of the toast... :unsure:
Good point, thick sliced toast will fall faster than thin sliced toast therefore giving the cat more time to rotate :unsure: [/b][/quote]
or too much time to rotatae ending up in a flat cat.

[Rappy]

did ya think about the distance and who releases the toast&cat and which is up and which is down <_<

[j4y3m]

I think the toast would turn itself around...

[BigBoo]

maybe the cat+toast would hover round erratically like trying to put N and N together on magnets

[Rappy]

Originally posted by RapFan@16 March 2004 - 15:38
did ya think about the distance and who releases the toast&cat and which is up and which is down <_<
i mean when they release it becides how big is the cat the toast may land first if the cat is big

[BigBoo]

Originally posted by Spider_dude@16 March 2004 - 14:16
If toast always falls butter side down, and cats always land on their feet, what would happen if you strapped some toast to a cats back?
the whole discussion seems to be void, dropping the cat-toast was never mentioned

therefore i think the cat would just walk round looking stupid

[Rappy]

we discussed what would happen Mr. Boo so yes we mentioned it

[BigBoo]

SD never did mention it though

[Rappy]

If toast always falls butter side down, and cats always land on their feet, what would happen if you strapped some toast to a cats back?

See it was mentioned Mr. Boo

[uNz[i]]

Theres only one way to answer the question. EXHAUSTIVE TESTING.

I&#39;ve thought a bit about this, and I figure we will need: 1 cat with an exceptionally good temperament. (Tranquillizers would adversly effect the cat&#39;s &#39;turning&#39; performance, and a normal cat would prove to be a health hazard to the tester)
1 strap, for the purpose of attaching the toast to the cat.
A good supply of buttered toast of varying thicknesses.
A place of reasonable hieght from which to "launch" the cat/toast.
A carpetted surface for a landing area.

I suggest that we get an impartial person of good repute to perform the tests and report back to us upon thier completion.

Theres a few other factors we should consider before starting the testing.

Should we conduct multiple altitude tests from a variety of elevations?
Just what would be a &#39;reasonable&#39; hieght?
Should we perform differing carpet quality tests?
What about margarine?
Brown bread, white or multigrain?

[Rappy]

The variable should be

Distance the cat/toast is dropped

Amount of butter on the toast

Thickness of the toast

Type of toast

Type of butter


The cat satys the same

We should do 3 drops per varible.



Damn i feel like im in science class again :x

[Yogi]

Was it SpiderDude who proposed the anti-gravity device composed of a buttered slice of toast tied to the back of a cat? Since cats "always land on their feet" and toast "always lands buttered side down" the combination of the two could logically never reach the floor.



Report of experiment:
Hypothesis
See above.


Apparatus
One (1) English muffin half, lightly toasted (no standard bread was available at the time)
Strawberry jam, homemade by the experimenter&#39;s mother
String
One (1) cat; in this case a six-year-old spayed female, slightly overweight, named Gotterdammerung


Setup
Two small holes were cut in the English muffin half, each about 0.75 inches from the edge of the muffin, 180 degrees apart. After toasting, a length of string was threaded through the muffin, which was then spread with approximately one tablespoon of strawberry jam. (Aside: will the amount of jam determine the hovering height of the cat-muffin assembly?) The string was tied around the cat&#39;s waist, with the muffin arranged on the cat&#39;s back, strawberry jam side up.


Methodology
The cat will be dropped from about three feet above the floor. The initial trial will be done with the cat oriented sideways upon release, so as not to bias the results in either the catwards or muffinwards direction. Should the apparatus prove durable enough for repeated trials, additional starting orientations will be tried.


Observations
The cat seemed vaguely disturbed by the assembly process, although she did not attempt to escape (perhaps because she had not yet been fed her breakfast and was afraid she would miss it).
Because the string had been tied somewhat loosely (so as not to cut through the muffin or interfere with the cat&#39;s breathing), there was an unanticipated degree of muffin slippage, particularly as the cat twisted around during her descent.
The cat landed on her feet.
By the time of the cat&#39;s landing, the muffin had slipped around her body almost to her stomach.
After the cat landed, she sat down and started chewing at the string; this action brought the jam side of the muffin in contact with the floor.
Roommates tend to be displeased with patches of strawberry jam covered with cat hair in the center of the kitchen floor.


Discussion
Obviously the two physical laws involved in this experiment are far stronger than this experimenter had anticipated. A more sophisticated method of muffin affixation is needed before a reliable anti-gravity device can be produced. Unfortunately, the experimenter had to leave for work after cleaning up the mess, so no further experimentation was possible.


Conclusion
Two unbreakable laws, when set up in seeming opposition, will both be satisfied anyway. Further research into cat-muffin phenomena is desperately needed, pending the award of extremely large research grants (cash in small-denomination, unmarked bills preferred) and the assistance of nubile young laboratory assistants (ones who look like Marky-Mark would be ideal).


YoCat

[Rappy]

Cut wait english muffin isn&#39;t really bread so the experement isn&#39;t valid

Edit: Jam wouldn&#39;t work either remember it was butter that was in the original
problem :ph34r:

[Yogi]

Cat and Toast Continued

ORIGINAL:
When a cat is dropped, it ALWAYS lands on its feet; and when toast is dropped, it ALWAYS lands with the buttered side facing down. Therefore, I propose to strap buttered toast to the back of a cat. When dropped, the two will hover, spinning inches above the ground, probably into eternity. A "buttered-cat array" could replace pneumatic tires on cars and trucks, and "giant buttered-cat arrays" could easily allow a high-speed monorail linking New York with Chicago.

REBUTTALS:

Allow a humble engineer to comment. In the described mode, the buttered cat array will drop like a stone and go splat. The toast is on the cat&#39;s back, so its feet are free. Presumably, the toast is butter side up. Dropped from any height, the cat&#39;s feet OR the buttered toast both are attracted to the ground, and there is nothing to stop the descent to splat-dom. It is the cat&#39;s BACK, and the UNBUTTERED side of the toast that repels the ground. For the "buttered cat array" to work, the cat must have four pieces of toast attached to its paws, with each paw firmly planted on the butter side. THIS array will then "hover, spinning inches above the ground" as the toast tries to flip over to the buttered side and the cat tries to spin so it&#39;s back is upright. -- Stan P

"Would you believe that I actually tried that buttered-cat thing, it didn&#39;t work and my cat scratched the shit out of me...?" -- Kain0

I am sorry to have to spoil your grand hopes of the perpetual motion machine but: The proposed revision to the buttered cat array will simply not work. In order to have the assembly work properly, the center of gyration would have to coincide with the plane through which the junction of toast and paws pass. The current proposed configuration has two masses joined together, which are of extremely unsimilar masses. The resultant center of gravity would be; depending upon the breed of cat; approximately 1/4" above the belly of the cat. The forces acting against the approaching ground, working through the junction of sole and butter, causing the assembly to rotate around the off-centered point of gyration; resulting in the cataclysmic disassociation of all parts in common. Not to mention the loss of life and limb of any laboratory worker foolhardy enough to try and get one piece of buttered bread onto a cat let alone attempt this feat four times. (Everybody knows that the cats&#39; disposition in indirectly proportional to the fifth power of the cats discomfort.) -- Jeff B

The other thing to keep in mind is that you&#39;d have to be careful where the cat is dropped...in the northern hemisphere, the spinning cat would, of course, spin in a counterclockwise direction, ala hurricanes and toilet bowls. South of the equator, the reverse would be true. A regulatory commission would have to be established to prevent mean spirited people from dropping buttered cats ON the equator, which would cause them to spin both ways at once, either turning them inside out or making them politicians. The truly perverse would tie the cat&#39;s feet together, apply the buttered toast, and then watch with glee, as the reverse g-force applied to such a concentrated area would shoot the cat up into the sky like some furry rocket. You have to be careful with these things. -- YoCat :P

[Yogi]

THE THEORY OF PURRPETUAL MOTION

Question: if you buttered the back of a cat, which way down would it land?

Law 1: The Laws of Butterology demand that the butter must hit the ground.

Law 2: The equally strict Laws of Feline Aerodynamics demand that the cat cannot smash its furry back - it must land on its feet.

If the combined constructed of cat + butter were to land, nature would have no way to resolve this paradox (or purradox). Therefore it cannot fall.

When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet, and when toast is dropped, it always lands buttered side down. Therefore, if a slice of toast is strapped to a cat&#39;s back, buttered side up, and the animal is then dropped, the two opposing forces will cause it to hover, spinning inches above the ground. If enough toast-laden felines were used, they could form the basis of a high-speed monorail system.

In the buttered toast case, it&#39;s the butter that causes it to land buttered side down - it doesn&#39;t have to be toast, the theory works equally well with Jacob&#39;s crackers. So to save money you just miss out the toast - and butter the cats.

Also, should there be an imbalance between the effects of cat and butter, there are other substances that have a stronger affinity for carpet.

Probability of carpet impact is determined by the following simple formula:

p = s * t(t)/t?



&#39;p&#39; is the probability of carpet impact,

&#39;s&#39; is the "stain" value of the toast-covering substance - an indicator of the effectiveness of the toast topping in permanently staining the carpet. Chicken Tikka Masala, for example, has a very high s value, while the s value of water is zero.

t? and t(t) indicate the tone of the carpet and topping - the value of p being strongly related to the relationship between the colour of the carpet and topping, as even Chicken Tikka Masala won&#39;t cause a permanent and obvious stain if the carpet is the same colour.

So it is obvious that the probability of carpet impact is maximised if you use Chicken Tikka Masala and a white carpet - in fact this combination gives a p value of one, which is the same as the probability of a cat landing on its feet.

Therefore a cat with Chicken Tikka Masala on its back will be certain to hover in mid air, while there could be problems with buttered toast as the toast may fall off the cat, causing a terrible monorail crash resulting in nauseating images of members of the royal family visiting accident victims in hospital, and politicians saying it wouldn&#39;t have happened if their party was in power as there would have been more investment in cat-toast glue research.

Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with Chicken Tikka Masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet.

In essence, you have discovered the secret of antigravity. A buttered cat will, when released, quickly move to a to a height where the forces of cat-twisting and butter repulsion are in equilibrium. This equilibrium point can be modified by scraping off some of the butter, providing lift, or removing some of the cat’s limbs, allowing descent.

It has been theorized by some researchers that most of the civilized species of the Universe already use this principle to drive their ships while within a planetary system. The loud humming heard by most sighters of UFOs is, in fact, the purring of several hundred tabbies. The most obvious danger of feline antigravity propulsion is that lithe cats may manage to lick the butter off their backs. They will then instantly plummet. Of course the cats will land on their feet, but this usually doesn’t do them much good, since right after they make their graceful landing several tons of red-hot starship and pissed off aliens crash on top of them. This suggests that aliens have not yet discovered tikka masala sauce and that some researchers really should stop watching Star Trek.

We must also consider the application of Murphy&#39;s Laws to this theory. Murphy&#39;s Laws are also known as Sod&#39;s Law or the Law of Perversity/Cussedness. In its simplest form, it states:

"Anything which can go wrong will go wrong"

Here are some of the more likely outcomes of the application of Murphy&#39;s Law into Butterology/Feline Aerodynamics in an experiment involving a "cat + buttered bread" scenario. We leave the Application of Murphy&#39;s Law to "cat + tikka masala sauce" scenarios as a theoretical exercise for the reader.

As soon as you release said feline from a suitably high place, the strap used to tie the bread to the back of the cat will break, thus nullifying the bond between the bread and the feline. You may attempt to defy this by applying the butter directly to the cat&#39;s fur, in which case the cat will lick off part of your carefully calculated quantity of butter (i.e. that amount which holds the cat-butter assemblage in equilibrium)

In either case, a very cross cat will land on its feet, claws extended, upon a lawyer&#39;s brand new soft-top car - scratching the top to shreds if it is raised or depositing copious amounts of fear-induced feline excrement on the driver&#39;s seat if the top is lowered.

Meanwhile, the liberated piece of buttered bread will fall buttered side down, landing on the toupee of the only newspaper reporter foolhardy enough to cover this misguided experiment, resulting in a reference to you in the Weekly World News (or New Scientist), in which your name will appear adjacent to the phrase phrase "foolish quack".

At the same time, a concerned passer-by will report your experiment to the PETA, your country&#39;s main SPCA, anti-animal-experimentation groups etc etc, leading to your arrest, trial and conviction upon charges of animal abuse. Following headlines of "Cat-throwing scientist on cruelty charges" you will spend a couple of years answering to the name "Cindy" chosen by your love-starved cellmate "Butch". You will be banned from ever keeping animals and banned from the dairy products section of all major supermarkets.

Addendum:

The laws of butterology demand that the butter must hit the ground, and the equally strict laws of feline aerodynamics demand that the cat cannot smash its furry back. If the combined construct were to land, nature would have no way to resolve this paradox. Therefore it simply does not fall. You have discovered the secret of antigravity&#33;

A buttered cat will, when released, quickly move to a height where the forces of cat and butter are in equilibrium. This equilibrium point can be modified by scraping off some of the butter, providing lift, or removing some of the cat&#39;s limbs, allowing descent.

Most of the civilized species of the Universe already use this principle to drive their ships while within a planetary system. The loud humming heard by most sighters of UFOs is, in fact, the purring of several hundred buttered tabbies. On Earth, the only loose ends delaying the full commercialization of this process is the matter of persuading the felines to:

a. work in teams.
b. not lick off the butter.
c. follow a flight plan.

As there seems to be a deficiency in feline herding instincts, any suggestions would be appreciated by the parties involved.

----------------------------

SD, you &#39;ve outdone yourself again with such an _ahum_ original........... :helpsmile:


Yocat :lol:

[Yogi]

Image Resized
[img]http://yale130132058168.physics.yale.edu/~shi3/YPO_2002/Images/61.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://yale130132058168.physics.yale.edu/~shi3/YPO_2002/Images/61.jpg')

YoCat

[Rappy]

make sure there is a backup cat incase it loses its 9 lives

[Yogi]

Only 418.000 results for cat+toast in yahoo........... :lol:


YoCat

[Rappy]

Originally posted by SensualBarfing@16 March 2004 - 16:24
Only 418.000 results for cat+toast in yahoo........... :lol:


YoCat
eww yahoo


and shouldn&#39;t it be yohoo :rolleyes:

[lynx]

All bets are off.

You buttered the wrong side of the toast. :P

[bigboab]

If you dropped them from 50,000ft you would need Quincy to determine which hit the ground first.

[tralalala]

Originally posted by Nimdock@16 March 2004 - 16:23
It would create a paradox that would lead to the destruction of the universe.
i second this.

its like the questions why cant we go at the speed of light??


anyway... is anyone here willing to test our paradox?


Rafi

[4th gen]

If you threw the bundle at the ceiling, would it just bounce up and down between the ceiling and floor?
Would it accelerate?

[Rappy]

Originally posted by 4th gen@16 March 2004 - 20:20
If you threw the bundle at the ceiling, would it just bounce up and down between the ceiling and floor?
Would it accelerate?
i would say accelerate

[Spider_dude]

Originally posted by RapFan+16 March 2004 - 21:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RapFan @ 16 March 2004 - 21:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-4th gen@16 March 2004 - 20:20
If you threw the bundle at the ceiling, would it just bounce up and down between the ceiling and floor?
Would it accelerate?
i would say accelerate [/b][/quote]
i would say newtons 2nd and third law denounce your arguement as shite.

[Rappy]

Originally posted by Spider_dude+16 March 2004 - 22:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spider_dude @ 16 March 2004 - 22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by RapFan@16 March 2004 - 21:37
<!--QuoteBegin-4th gen@16 March 2004 - 20:20
If you threw the bundle at the ceiling, would it just bounce up and down between the ceiling and floor?
Would it accelerate?
i would say accelerate
i would say newtons 2nd and third law denounce your arguement as shite. [/b][/quote]
i would say i don&#39;t care Mr. Dude

[Canti]

Originally posted by Spider_dude+16 March 2004 - 17:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spider_dude &#064; 16 March 2004 - 17:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by RapFan@16 March 2004 - 21:37
<!--QuoteBegin-4th gen@16 March 2004 - 20:20
If you threw the bundle at the ceiling, would it just bounce up and down between the ceiling and floor?
Would it accelerate?
i would say accelerate
i would say newtons 2nd and third law denounce your arguement as shite. [/b][/quote]
http://lasagna777.hihome.com/cartoon2/hercules.jpg
Thats me... Thats me...

[BigBoo]

i fou got a small cat/toast ball. and carved a cricket bat from a floor board, would i be able to hit 6s everytime?

[bulio]

the cat and the toast would rip apart causing mass blood and butter gore

[J'Pol]

The mass of the cat, toast, butter and combination is irrelevant as they will always fall at ~9.81m/s/s.

The distance dropped is however relevant, as is the alignment of the cat / toast hybrid.

If you drop them with the cat&#39;s feet down from 1 inch then it will land cat down, but wobble slightly.

If you do it from a greater distance say 1 foot, then the cat will be at a distinct angle by the time it hits the ground.

If you drop them from a higher distance, say 10 feet then it will wobble markedly and eventually land sideways, given that the toast has had time to have effect.

In short, if dropped from a small height then it will land with the side which was facing downwards still facing downwards, however it will be at a greater or lesser angle. Once you reach a critical height then the effect will be strong enough for the whole conglomeration to land on it&#39;s side.

(I have taken the effect to be infinite for both cat and buttered toast, as the question suggests that they always land a certain way).

I would propose that this height be known as Spider&#39;s Distance.

[bigboab]

I just feel sorry for all these cats all over the globe. :( They are probably thinking, &#39;What is all this toast strapped to my back and why am I continually getting dropped while facing the ceiling&#39;?

Those that have survived are probably thinking, &#39;See that F*ng spider dude&#39;. :lol: