Is This Not A Terror That Should Be Fought?

[mrcall1969]

NAIROBI (Reuters) - Pro-government Arab militias in western Sudan's Darfur region are carrying out systematic killings of African villagers reminiscent of the Rwandan genocide, a U.N. official said Friday.

"We have a vicious war going on which is leading to the violation of human rights on a scale comparable to historic situations, increasingly for example Rwanda," Mukesh Kapila, U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Sudan, told reporters.

Kapila, who recently completed a trip to Sudan, was referring to Rwanda's 1994 genocide in which extremist Hutus massacred 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus in 100 days.

"The only difference between Rwanda and Darfur now is the numbers of dead, murdered, tortured, raped... Some people are using the term ethnic cleansing to describe what is going on in Darfur and I would say that that is not far off the mark... All the warning signs are there for ethnic cleansing."

He said more than 10,000 people had been killed since two Darfur rebel groups launched a revolt against the government in February 2003, accusing Khartoum of neglecting the region and arming Arab "Janjaweed" militias who loot African villages.

Fighting has intensified since peace talks with one group collapsed in December 2003 and U.N. officials estimate the war has displaced up to one million people, with more than 100,000 refugees fleeing to Chad. The government disputes the figures.

"In our estimation it's now the world's greatest humanitarian crisis and quite possibly the world's hottest war at the moment," Kapila said, adding aid workers on the ground reported a systematic scorched-earth policy.

He cited a February 28 attack on Tawila village in which at least 100 women were raped in a few hours. Six girls were raped in front of their fathers who were later killed.

In the same attack 75 people were killed, all the houses looted and about 150 women and 200 children abducted.

"All the information we've been able to acquire through observers on the ground (shows) that the Janjaweed are involved in many of these activities," Kapila said.

"People with uniforms are doing these things. To what extent it is sanctioned by the government, I do not know... We've heard reports of planes and helicopters being used in attacks on villages and reports of civilians being killed in those attacks."

Kapila said the rebels, for their part, were guilty of looting aid convoys taking food to refugees fleeing the war.

Like southern rebels discussing peace with the government at talks in Kenya, western insurgents say they are fighting to end years of neglect and exploitation by the Islamist government but have so far won none of the concessions southerners have done at the negotiating table.

Source (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=4605130)


I guess some countries just don't have enough significance.

[hobbes]

As I have said before, the UN is full of impotent twats that just want to make pretty speeches, push papers about and have a nice lunch.

UN "resolutions" should now be called "suggestions", because whenever they pass one, they never demonstrate the "resolve" to enforce them.

Like the British Bobby: "Stop, or I'll yell stop, again.

[vidcc]

This story isn't exactly new or unique in that this sort of thing has been going on since history began. Supposedly we live in a more civilised time, but a sad truth is that if a country or region doesn't have something of value such as oil the western world often turns a blind eye.
There are some terrible regimes in the world today that are just as bad if not worse than saddams but they are also in poor areas so they are left to fend for themselves or the UN places economic sanctions on those countries which really only hurt the people and not the regimes.
I wouldn't say nothing is done in reality but it appears that way often.

Hobbes...That was a very funny joke about he British police :lol: even if i heard it before :lol: (they do have armed units). the general "beat bobby" isn't armed because they don't need to be...something i wish we could say about here.

[ilw]

i doubt even the gung-ho american cops (that we love to watch on Cops or America's wildest police chases or the ever delightful Rodney King show) are quite Judge Dredd enough to gun people down as they run away.

:P

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by vidcc@21 March 2004 - 00:22
This story isn't exactly new or unique in that this sort of thing has been going on since history began. Supposedly we live in a more civilised time, but a sad truth is that if a country or region doesn't have something of value such as oil the western world often turns a blind eye.
There are some terrible regimes in the world today that are just as bad if not worse than saddams but they are also in poor areas so they are left to fend for themselves or the UN places economic sanctions on those countries which really only hurt the people and not the regimes.
I wouldn't say nothing is done in reality but it appears that way often.

Hobbes...That was a very funny joke about he British police :lol: even if i heard it before :lol: (they do have armed units). the general "beat bobby" isn't armed because they don't need to be...something i wish we could say about here.
That is the point that I trying to make, are the people in Sudan, Rwanda, Uganda or Kosovo for that matter any less important than Iraq?

The UK provides weapons etc to Saudi Arabia, as does the US, but they are regarded as having one of the worst human rights records in the middle east.

I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by ilw@20 March 2004 - 15:25
i doubt even the gung-ho american cops (that we love to watch on Cops or America's wildest police chases or the ever delightful Rodney King show) are quite Judge Dredd enough to gun people down as they run away.

:P
i wasn't making any reference about the quality or "gung ho" attitude of our cops...it was a comment on the sad fact that our cop "need" to be armed in our country whereas in britain they still have a society where the beat bobby doesn't need to be armed (probably more to do with the availability of guns than the criminals)

[ilw]

I wasn't replying to u vidcc, I was replying to hobbes, he's brought that joke up a few times in the past so i thought i'd take the piss a bit as well

[sArA]

I wonder though if the American cops really need their guns most of the time, I mean, having lived in the US for a year I didn't really understand the need for them. They seem to be more of a deterrent than a necessity in most places.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by sara5564@21 March 2004 - 18:43
I wonder though if the American cops really need their guns most of the time, I mean, having lived in the US for a year I didn't really understand the need for them. They seem to be more of a deterrent than a necessity in most places.
What part of the US did you live in? It really makes a difference.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 19:32
I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.
Well who's supposed to determine it? :blink:

Is there to be a vote every time a country is in trouble?

Enlighten us all.

[<TROUBLE^MAKER>]

Originally posted by mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 17:02
NAIROBI (Reuters) - Pro-government Arab militias in western Sudan&#39;s Darfur region are carrying out systematic killings of African villagers reminiscent of the Rwandan genocide, a U.N. official said Friday.

"We have a vicious war going on which is leading to the violation of human rights on a scale comparable to historic situations, increasingly for example Rwanda," Mukesh Kapila, U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Sudan, told reporters.


Your the fighter for this fight, go fight.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by Busyman+22 March 2004 - 02:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 22 March 2004 - 02:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 19:32
I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.
Well who&#39;s supposed to determine it? :blink:

Is there to be a vote every time a country is in trouble?

Enlighten us all. [/b][/quote]
The point I was making is that what gives them the right to play God and save some from &#39;evil dictators&#39; (Iraq), oppressive regimes (Nicaragua) and civil war (Haiti), yet not others.

Of course, we do already vote on issues like this through the UN, whether the result of that vote is recognised by some countries is another matter all together.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by mrcall1969+22 March 2004 - 15:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mrcall1969 @ 22 March 2004 - 15:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@22 March 2004 - 02:25
<!--QuoteBegin-mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 19:32
I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.
Well who&#39;s supposed to determine it? :blink:

Is there to be a vote every time a country is in trouble?

Enlighten us all.
The point I was making is that what gives them the right to play God and save some from &#39;evil dictators&#39; (Iraq), oppressive regimes (Nicaragua) and civil war (Haiti), yet not others.

Of course, we do already vote on issues like this through the UN, whether the result of that vote is recognised by some countries is another matter all together. [/b][/quote]
Once enlighten us as to what takes precedence.

A more precise argument is what gives them the right at all. Then no is helped.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by Busyman+22 March 2004 - 21:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 22 March 2004 - 21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by mrcall1969@22 March 2004 - 15:50

Originally posted by Busyman@22 March 2004 - 02:25
<!--QuoteBegin-mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 19:32
I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.
Well who&#39;s supposed to determine it? :blink:

Is there to be a vote every time a country is in trouble?

Enlighten us all.
The point I was making is that what gives them the right to play God and save some from &#39;evil dictators&#39; (Iraq), oppressive regimes (Nicaragua) and civil war (Haiti), yet not others.

Of course, we do already vote on issues like this through the UN, whether the result of that vote is recognised by some countries is another matter all together.
Once enlighten us as to what takes precedence.

A more precise argument is what gives them the right at all. Then no is helped. [/b][/quote]
:huh: :huh: :huh:


BTW nice sig

[Busyman]

Originally posted by mrcall1969+22 March 2004 - 16:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mrcall1969 @ 22 March 2004 - 16:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@22 March 2004 - 21:49

Originally posted by mrcall1969@22 March 2004 - 15:50

Originally posted by Busyman@22 March 2004 - 02:25
<!--QuoteBegin-mrcall1969@20 March 2004 - 19:32
I just think its disgusting that poliicians can determine which countries are worth helping and which are not.
Well who&#39;s supposed to determine it? :blink:

Is there to be a vote every time a country is in trouble?

Enlighten us all.
The point I was making is that what gives them the right to play God and save some from &#39;evil dictators&#39; (Iraq), oppressive regimes (Nicaragua) and civil war (Haiti), yet not others.

Of course, we do already vote on issues like this through the UN, whether the result of that vote is recognised by some countries is another matter all together.
Once enlighten us as to what takes precedence.

A more precise argument is what gives them the right at all. Then no is helped.
:huh: :huh: :huh:


BTW nice sig [/b][/quote]
Well your "point" is about what gives them the right to choose which countries to help "versus" others.

The simple answer is the US helps who they want to help......just like any other country.

[brenda]

perhaps it would make more sencse to tackle the problems in our own countries before trying to solve anyone elses........ and to stop the production of weapons altogether might not be such a bad idea

[Busyman]

Originally posted by brenda@22 March 2004 - 20:32
perhaps it would make more sencse to tackle the problems in our own countries before trying to solve anyone elses........ and to stop the production of weapons altogether might not be such a bad idea
I agree&#33;&#33;........but part of our hands off approach led to WWII.