Told To Kill By God [Archive]

vidcc

04-04-2004, 07:23 PM

story (http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/03/children.slain/index.html)

A texas mother has been aquitted of murdering her children because the jury found that she was insane at the time. The defense was that God told her to do it.

I am reminded of Abraham & Isaac.

This raises a question. If someone can be classified insane for following "Gods orders" does it mean that the same goes for following other orders from God that don't involve doing bad things as far as the law goes.?
If someone says "God told me to be moral and help others" we accept that and don't view that person as insane.....if they said "God told me to sacrifice my children"........insane
i am as many of you know, a doubter of Gods existance but i don't deny that he could exist. This is not about the existance of God, nor is it designed to offend those that believe. It is about how we see Gods orders in everyday life and how we accept them and indeed "what" we accept.
Personally i feel that the woman just wanted to get away with the terrible thing she did and the "god" bit was just a desperate attempt at doing so....it kind of worked as the jury (which heard the case, whereas i did not) aquitted her

<TROUBLE^MAKER>

04-04-2004, 08:04 PM

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00002VW6C.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/jonestown.jpg

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 10:04 PM

IN MY OPINION (so as not to be declared a self proclaimed expert by vidcc)

It really depends on what actions the person takes and whether they do it because of a religious belief, or because God actually spoke to them.

If someone lives a good life, based on their belief in a God and what he want so f us then that is surely a good thing and not insane.

If they hear God's voice in their head, they may indeed have psychological problems and in fact be hallucinating. On the other hand if God is actually speaking to them, then they are perfectly sane.

I don't think God tells people to murder, therefore the person did not hear God's voice, therefore they are lying or have psychological problems.

Incidentally , I think it's Metatron who does most of the actual talking. I belief he was the Gaffer Arch-Angel and one of the Seraphim, but I could be wrong.

sArA

04-04-2004, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 23:04

Incidentally , I think it's Metatron who does most of the actual talking. I belief he was the Gaffer Arch-Angel and one of the Seraphim, but I could be wrong.
Isn't he the one pulled into the Abyss by Lord Asriel and Mrs Coulter?????

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by sara5564+4 April 2004 - 23:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sara5564 @ 4 April 2004 - 23:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 23:04

Incidentally , I think it's Metatron who does most of the actual talking. I belief he was the Gaffer Arch-Angel and one of the Seraphim, but I could be wrong.
Isn't he the one pulled into the Abyss by Lord Asriel and Mrs Coulter????? [/b][/quote]
I am not even remotely familiar with Phillip Pullmans work, so I cannot comment on this one.

I was more thinking of

http://www.drjoshuadavidstone.com/metatron.jpg

Busyman

04-04-2004, 10:28 PM

I think she should have been fried in the chair.

The jurors had watched to much Frailty.

hobbes

04-04-2004, 10:29 PM

I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Quite seriously, whether it is too kill or behave "morally" based on the word of an unknowable God, defined by man, there is no difference. It is all based in something which cannot be proven nor questioned, an absolute leap into the abyss with no safety net.

Busyman

04-04-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 18:29
I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Quite seriously, whether it is too kill or behave "morally" based on the word of an unknowable God, defined by man, there is no difference. It is all based in something which cannot be proven nor questioned, an absolute leap into the abyss with no safety net.
I just think God was a scapegoat.

An example of religion helping to define morals is marriage.

What's to stop me from slamming another man's wife if the oppurtinity presents itself.

I think it's "religiously" wrong. It's adultery.

Take religion away and it's go for what you know.

hobbes

04-04-2004, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Busyman+4 April 2004 - 23:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 4 April 2004 - 23:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 18:29
I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Quite seriously, whether it is too kill or behave "morally" based on the word of an unknowable God, defined by man, there is no difference. It is all based in something which cannot be proven nor questioned, an absolute leap into the abyss with no safety net.
I just think God was a scapegoat.

An example of religion helping to define morals is marriage.

What's to stop me from slamming another man's wife if the oppurtinity presents itself.

I think it's "religiously" wrong. It's adultery.

Take religion away and it's go for what you know.[/b][/quote]

Marriage is a relationship of trust.

The comfort it provides is the understanding that once married I won't boink your wife, you won't boink mine.

God and religion have nothing to do with anything.

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 23:29
I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Bunkum, as you well know.

Your point only makes any sense if one assumes that God did in fact issue the instruction.

You do not believe God exists, therefore he could not have. So your post would be based, in your own eyes, on a false premise.

I do not believe that God would have issued an instruction to commit murder, as it is against his commandments.

The woman was lying or delusional. Either way, God did not tell her to commit infanticide.

hobbes

04-04-2004, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by J'Pol+4 April 2004 - 23:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'Pol @ 4 April 2004 - 23:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 23:29
I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying  that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Bunkum, as you well know.

Your point only makes any sense if one assumes that God did in fact issue the instruction.

You do not believe God exists, therefore he could not have. So your post would be based, in your own eyes, on a false premise.

I do not believe that God would have issued an instruction to commit murder, as it is against his commandments.

The woman was lying or delusional. Either way, God did not tell her to commit infanticide. [/b][/quote]
I have always allowed the possibilty of a God, I just reject those version created by man to appease his fear of the unknown.

Maybe her God is not your God.

How do you know which is the correct one?

Oh, that's right, you chose your God arbitrarily.

Biggles

04-04-2004, 10:54 PM

Busyman

I think you will find that the concept of adultery has more to do with whose children are inheriting whose property. In a patriarchal society, the idea that another man's son will inherit your land tends to cause dismay. Morality has little to do with it. Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo. :ph34r:

The ancient Picts of Scotland were matriarchal on the basis that you always knew who your mother was. Consequently, even the linage of the crown was passed down the mother's side. This ended in the 9th century when the Northern Picts joined with the Southern Scots (who were by then patriarchal) and the unified state was formed.

I presume this lady is receiving medical care somewhere secure - just in case her receiver goes into overdrive again.

Rat Faced

04-04-2004, 10:59 PM

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

G W Bush to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas......

This may explain a few things :unsure:

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by hobbes+4 April 2004 - 23:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 4 April 2004 - 23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 23:48
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 23:29
I think it highlights how irrelevant God is when it comes to defining moral behavior.

The religious might justify the act by saying that "God has a higher purpose" and we may not understand why he chose to kill in this case, and therefore; his desire was fulfilled.

Bunkum, as you well know.

Your point only makes any sense if one assumes that God did in fact issue the instruction.

You do not believe God exists, therefore he could not have. So your post would be based, in your own eyes, on a false premise.

I do not believe that God would have issued an instruction to commit murder, as it is against his commandments.

The woman was lying or delusional. Either way, God did not tell her to commit infanticide.
I have always allowed the possibilty of a God, I just reject those version created by man to appease his fear of the unknown.

Maybe her God is not your God.

How do you know which is the correct one?

Oh, that's right, you chose your God arbitrarily. [/b][/quote]
Come on, at least put some effort in. A pathetic childish jibe from you, it's really not your style.

That just makes it obvious you are looking for a reaction mate.

Oh, bunny boy said I decide on my God arbitrarily, what will I do, how should I react. Come on, are we not worth the effort of a bit of creativity. That was the interweb equivalent of mocking someone's speech impediment. It reflect more on you than it does on the victim.

Shape up hobbes, we expect more from you.

hobbes

04-04-2004, 11:03 PM

Sorry mate, a bit grumpy, will pull up a chair and observe. :D

You know, it took me less than 2 years to learn to talk and many more years to learn to shut-up.

I'm actually not backing away from my comments, but my landlord has put me in a foul mood and I think I will not let that infect the board.

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by hobbes@5 April 2004 - 00:03
Sorry mate, a bit grumpy, will pull up a chair and observe. :D

You know, it took me less than 2 years to learn to talk and many more years to learn to shut-up.

I'm actually not backing away from my comments, but my landlord has put me in a foul mood and I think I will not let that infect the board.
No chance, get posting mate.

You, the apple and a foul mood. I want to talk to that rabbit.

Fan-Tastic

Biggles

04-04-2004, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by Rat Faced@4 April 2004 - 22:59

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

G W Bush to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas......

This may explain a few things :unsure:
:o

No way!

That must be a spoof Rat Face, it is crazy talk. The sort of thing a travelling preacher and snake oil seller would have said a 150 years ago.

Busyman

04-04-2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 18:44
God and religion have nothing to do with anything.
Take them away and I guarantee there'd be anarchy.

Sorry to break it to ya but they both keep alot of people "in line". ;)

Call it cooky.

Busyman

04-04-2004, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Biggles@4 April 2004 - 18:54
Busyman

I think you will find that the concept of adultery has more to do with whose children are inheriting whose property. In a patriarchal society, the idea that another man's son will inherit your land tends to cause dismay. Morality has little to do with it. Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo. :ph34r:

The ancient Picts of Scotland were matriarchal on the basis that you always knew who your mother was. Consequently, even the linage of the crown was passed down the mother's side. This ended in the 9th century when the Northern Picts joined with the Southern Scots (who were by then patriarchal) and the unified state was formed.

I presume this lady is receiving medical care somewhere secure - just in case her receiver goes into overdrive again.
Uh...no Biggles.

You are explaining a possible "origin" that doesn't apply to todays minds.

J'Pol

04-04-2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Biggles+5 April 2004 - 00:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Biggles @ 5 April 2004 - 00:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rat Faced@4 April 2004 - 22:59

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

G W Bush to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas......

This may explain a few things :unsure:
:o

No way!

That must be a spoof Rat Face, it is crazy talk. The sort of thing a travelling preacher and snake oil seller would have said a 150 years ago. [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://bluebook.state.or.us/facts/scenic/tm/images/765s.jpg

hobbes

04-04-2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by Busyman+5 April 2004 - 00:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 5 April 2004 - 00:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 18:44
God and religion have nothing to do with anything.
Take them away and I guarantee there'd be anarchy.

Sorry to break it to ya but they both keep alot of people "in line". ;)

Call it cooky. [/b][/quote]
You are absolutely right BM.

People with nothing to lose would cause this anarchy.

I am fortunate to be a shepard and not a sheep.

God will never go of business because he is needed so badly.

Ever listen to the lyrics of Tupac? Really enlightened me to a world I didn't know existed.

Where does a man go when he is at the bottom?

Biggles

04-04-2004, 11:20 PM

Busyman

I am not convinced by your assertion that religion (presumably any religion) is essential to social order.

All that is required is that members buy into the society that they live in. Europe is largely secular with about 14% attending religious services. The other 86% are not on a rampage. I don't believe crime is any worse in Europe than anywhere else, our murder rate is in fact lower than most despite having fairly lax penalties for serious crimes.

That is not to say that the social situation where you live is the same. I appreciate the US is trying to glue a lot of disparate cultures together and religion may have a role there I don't know. However, if that is the case, religion performs a specific and not a general rule.

sArA

04-04-2004, 11:21 PM

I gather there is a very fine line of interpretation between auditory hallucination and divine messages..

I guess that in a different context, not knowing what those children would have grown up to be, means that we do not know if she was killing the next hitler based on direct instructions from God. You never know, she could have prevented global anihillation (sp??). Saints were said to have been in direct communication with God so were they insane or inspired..we will never know...nor can we be sure with her....

ilw

04-04-2004, 11:22 PM

Journalist Arnon Regular wrote, in the June 26 edition of Ha'aretz (Israel's most reputable newspaper), that he has minutes of a meeting among top-level Palestinian leaders, including Prime Minister Mahmoud Abas. The minutes are apparently quite detailed, because Regular wrote a long article recounting very specific conversations. The last paragraph of the article reads:

"According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"

Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English.
June last year

Biggles

04-04-2004, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Busyman+4 April 2004 - 23:13--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 4 April 2004 - 23:13)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Biggles@4 April 2004 - 18:54
Busyman

I think you will find that the concept of adultery has more to do with whose children are inheriting whose property. In a patriarchal society, the idea that another man's son will inherit your land tends to cause dismay. Morality has little to do with it. Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo.  :ph34r:

The ancient Picts of Scotland were matriarchal on the basis that you always knew who your mother was. Consequently, even the linage of the crown was passed down the mother's side. This ended in the 9th century when the Northern Picts joined with the Southern Scots (who were by then patriarchal) and the unified state was formed.

I presume this lady is receiving medical care somewhere secure - just in case her receiver goes into overdrive again.
Uh...no Biggles.

You are explaining a possible "origin" that doesn't apply to todays minds. [/b][/quote]
:lol:

Regardless, the "Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo" bit applies as much today as it ever did.

vidcc

04-05-2004, 12:18 AM

I did mention Abraham as it would be an example where god, even if it was just a test and he stopped it in time, did order a father to kill (sacrifice) his son. Which is one of the reasons i posed the original question....we believe in the story in the bible but we couldn't believe someone that said god asked the same of them.
We also deny that god would ask such a bad thing yet when bad things happen it's often said to be gods will or god has his reasons for allowing such things.
We believe that god spoke to certain people in the bible but feel that if he spoke to someone today that person is mentally unstable. It's not just doubters like myself that feel this.

Ok here's another question in the same area.

How come believers are sure that there will be a second coming of Christ and yet if anyone says they are that person, they are ridiculed and reviled? (David Ike)

hobbes

04-05-2004, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by vidcc@5 April 2004 - 01:18
I did mention Abraham as it would be an example where god, even if it was just a test and he stopped it in time, did order a father to kill (sacrifice) his son. Which is one of the reasons i posed the original question....we believe in the story in the bible but we couldn't believe someone that said god asked the same of them.
We also deny that god would ask such a bad thing yet when bad things happen it's often said to be gods will or god has his reasons for allowing such things.
We believe that god spoke to certain people in the bible but feel that if he spoke to someone today that person is mentally unstable. It's not just doubters like myself that feel this.

Ok here's another question in the same area.

How come believers are sure that there will be a second coming of Christ and yet if anyone says they are that person, they are ridiculed and reviled? (David Ike)
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.

vidcc

04-05-2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 16:23
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.
Shush...you will be accused of understanding my post and therefore be childish and uninformed :lol:

Sorry jpol but i had to say something considering your opening remarks :lol:

Busyman

04-05-2004, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Biggles@4 April 2004 - 19:20
Busyman

I am not convinced by your assertion that religion (presumably any religion) is essential to social order.

All that is required is that members buy into the society that they live in. Europe is largely secular with about 14% attending religious services. The other 86% are not on a rampage. I don't believe crime is any worse in Europe than anywhere else, our murder rate is in fact lower than most despite having fairly lax penalties for serious crimes.

That is not to say that the social situation where you live is the same. I appreciate the US is trying to glue a lot of disparate cultures together and religion may have a role there I don't know. However, if that is the case, religion performs a specific and not a general rule.
:lol:
That is soooooo black and white that it sounds like a census report.

So 86 percent of Europe are atheist or agnostic?

I don't regularly attend religious services but I still have my religious beliefs.

hobbes

04-05-2004, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by vidcc+5 April 2004 - 01:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 5 April 2004 - 01:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 16:23
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.
Shush...you will be accused of understanding my post and therefore be childish and uniformed :lol:

Sorry jpol but i had to say something considering your opening remarks :lol: [/b][/quote]
Damn right I'm uniformed
http://www.victorianvilla.com/sims-mitchell/local/martin/uniformed-image.jpg

vidcc

04-05-2004, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by hobbes+4 April 2004 - 16:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 4 April 2004 - 16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by vidcc@5 April 2004 - 01:26
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 16:23
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.
Shush...you will be accused of understanding my post and therefore be childish and uniformed :lol:

Sorry jpol but i had to say something considering your opening remarks :lol:
Damn right I'm uniformed
http://www.victorianvilla.com/sims-mitchell/local/martin/uniformed-image.jpg [/b][/quote]
oops :lol: uninformed :">

i do have a form of dyslexia which for the most part i overcame, but i also have a cordless keyboard badly in need of new batteries :lol:

edit.....for some reason i CAN believe that photo is you :lol:

J'Pol

04-05-2004, 12:45 AM

At least go to the bother of reading what other people post.

It is often apparent when reading people's posts that some chaps cant be arsed to read what other people actually think.

vidcc,

I have yet to see you reply to a thread, any thread, which gave the impression that you had actually read it. Your posts come across as someone with pre-conceived notions, who can happily ignore anything which contradicts them. Including, but not limited to, what people actually post.

Busyman

04-05-2004, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 20:45
At least go to the bother of reading what other people post.

It is often apparent when reading people's posts that some chaps cant be arsed to read what other people actually think.

vidcc,

I have yet to see you reply to a thread, any thread, which gave the impression that you had actually read it. Your posts come across as someone with pre-conceived notions, who can happily ignore anything which contradicts them. Including, but not limited to, what people actually post.
oUCHIeS :o :huh:

vidcc

04-05-2004, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 16:45
At least go to the bother of reading what other people post.

It is often apparent when reading people's posts that some chaps cant be arsed to read what other people actually think.

vidcc,

I have yet to see you reply to a thread, any thread, which gave the impression that you had actually read it. Your posts come across as someone with pre-conceived notions, who can happily ignore anything which contradicts them. Including, but not limited to, what people actually post.
superiority complex, that and altziemers.....

ps when i talk about god i am not talking about jpol

pps....just why are you posting in my topic jpol? you said that all my posts are childish.....so what draws you to them?

Busyman

04-05-2004, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by vidcc+4 April 2004 - 21:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 4 April 2004 - 21:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 16:45
At least go to the bother of reading what other people post.

It is often apparent when reading people's posts that some chaps cant be arsed to read what other people actually think.

vidcc,

I have yet to see you reply to a thread, any thread, which gave the impression that you had actually read it. Your posts come across as someone with pre-conceived notions, who can happily ignore anything which contradicts them. Including, but not limited to, what people actually post.
superiority complex, that and altziemers.....

ps when i talk about god i am not talking about jpol

pps....just why are you posting in my topic jpol? you said that all my posts are childish.....so what draws you to them? [/b][/quote]
Calm down vid.....it's just J'Paulism. Why are you surprised?

Wizard_Mon1

04-05-2004, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by sara5564@4 April 2004 - 23:21
I gather there is a very fine line of interpretation between auditory hallucination and divine messages..

I guess that in a different context, not knowing what those children would have grown up to be, means that we do not know if she was killing the next hitler based on direct instructions from God. You never know, she could have prevented global anihillation (sp??). Saints were said to have been in direct communication with God so were they insane or inspired..we will never know...nor can we be sure with her....
Your right we can't be sure but we can make an educated guess that if someone kills her children and then says god told her to she is slightly fkdup.

It goes against gods teaching so why would her case be an exception.

It's a bit to conveniant (sp?) to be taken seriously. 'what will stop me from being electricuted, oh yer the old 'god told me to' line.

People should understand that even if god told her too she didn't have to, as she is said to have her own free will. Her mental state affected her choices and actions which ever way you look at it.

Shamans often claim they are talking to a higher power, however tibetan buddhists suspect them of actually talking to malicious spirits. In this system of belief it is possible she talked to something, but that something might have been a negative influence.

"The whit man came and brought god, poor god couldn't come by himself."

Why would god specifically tell her and not a random guy on the street or even the children themselves- what they had done wrong and how to right it.

vidcc

04-05-2004, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Busyman@4 April 2004 - 17:31
Calm down vid.....it's just J'Paulism. Why are you surprised?
I am as mellow as a sloth on vacation in a field of hash plants :lol:

i am as relaxed as the sniffer dog at the airport after making a find and saying "Hey man...like... woof".

Phyltre

04-05-2004, 03:32 AM

Quote of the post:

"God and religion have nothing to do with anything."

Almost as good as:

"I am not writing this sentence that you are not reading."

Busyman

04-05-2004, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 19:19
You are absolutely right BM.

I like this one.

He called me Bowel Movement.

Biggles

04-05-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Busyman+5 April 2004 - 00:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 5 April 2004 - 00:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Biggles@4 April 2004 - 19:20
Busyman

I am not convinced by your assertion that religion (presumably any religion) is essential to social order.

All that is required is that members buy into the society that they live in. Europe is largely secular with about 14% attending religious services. The other 86% are not on a rampage. I don't believe crime is any worse in Europe than anywhere else, our murder rate is in fact lower than most despite having fairly lax penalties for serious crimes.

That is not to say that the social situation where you live is the same. I appreciate the US is trying to glue a lot of disparate cultures together and religion may have a role there I don't know. However, if that is the case, religion performs a specific and not a general rule.
:lol:
That is soooooo black and white that it sounds like a census report.

So 86 percent of Europe are atheist or agnostic?

I don't regularly attend religious services but I still have my religious beliefs. [/b][/quote]
I apologise for the gratuitous use of statistics. :ph34r: I am not a fan of them much myself.

Of course there are many shades of belief systems in Europe. However, by their very plurality, it follows that from that self same diversity there is not a cohesive set of "rules".

However, if people are not social then society doesn't work. In a purely Darwinian sense unsocial societies will destroy themselves - leaving only social ones.

J'Pol

04-05-2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by vidcc+5 April 2004 - 02:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 5 April 2004 - 02:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 16:45
At least go to the bother of reading what other people post.

It is often apparent when reading people's posts that some chaps cant be arsed to read what other people actually think.

vidcc,

I have yet to see you reply to a thread, any thread, which gave the impression that you had actually read it. Your posts come across as someone with pre-conceived notions, who can happily ignore anything which contradicts them. Including, but not limited to, what people actually post.
superiority complex, that and altziemers.....

ps when i talk about god i am not talking about jpol

pps....just why are you posting in my topic jpol? you said that all my posts are childish.....so what draws you to them? [/b][/quote]
One speaks as one finds.

What you tell me you do, or have done, or intend to do is of no interest to me. Anyone can come here and post or PM a history for themselves.

By your actions and your words, that is how people make up their mind about you. That is how I was taught in real life and what I believe here.

Oh and it's not "your topic" no more than it was "your game" in the playground. It may have been your idea to start it, but once you did it was everyone's.

vidcc

04-05-2004, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by J'Pol@5 April 2004 - 14:41
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BlBlah Blah Blah Blah ah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
:sleep1: :sleep1: you have to be the most boring and saddest person on the face of the earth

J'Pol

04-05-2004, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by vidcc+6 April 2004 - 00:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 6 April 2004 - 00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J'Pol@5 April 2004 - 14:41
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BlBlah Blah Blah Blah ah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
:sleep1: :sleep1: you have to be the most boring and saddest person on the face of the earth [/b][/quote]
You think

I didn't PM you my credentials / history in a futile attempt at external validation.

Which one of us is sad, Politition Boy.

As I said, one speaks as one finds.

vidcc

04-06-2004, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 14:04

If someone lives a good life, based on their belief in a God and what he want so f us then that is surely a good thing and not insane.

Incidentally , I think it's Metatron who does most of the actual talking. I belief he was the Gaffer Arch-Angel and one of the Seraphim, but I could be wrong.

i pm.ed you in private to let you know i am dyslexic which was about my spelling mistakes.....now just on your first post on this topic shall we see how perfect you are with spelling.
i can't be bothered with your petty nit picking anymore, i said before please don't bother ever reading any of my post as you will probably go more insane than you are already...gosh think...i might use a word or term that means the same thing here as it does there but isn't the same word....i might say trash can intead of bin :o
i stand by my comments you sad infantile individual

you will probably come up with some more waffle after this as it will be eating away at you but frankly it appears to be bothering you SOOOO much more than I

sArA

04-06-2004, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by vidcc+6 April 2004 - 01:27--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 6 April 2004 - 01:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J'Pol@4 April 2004 - 14:04

If someone lives a good life, based on their belief in a God and what he want so f us then that is surely a good thing and not insane.

Incidentally , I think it's Metatron who does most of the actual talking. I belief he was the Gaffer Arch-Angel and one of the Seraphim, but I could be wrong.

i pm.ed you in private to let you know i am dyslexic which was about my spelling mistakes.....now just on your first post on this topic shall we see how perfect you are with spelling.
i can't be bothered with your petty nit picking anymore, i said before please don't bother ever reading any of my post as you will probably go more insane than you are already...gosh think...i might use a word or term that means the same thing here as it does there but isn't the same word....i might say trash can intead of bin :o
i stand by my comments you sad infantile individual

you will probably come up with some more waffle after this as it will be eating away at you but frankly it appears to be bothering you SOOOO much more than I [/b][/quote]
Handbags at dawn methinks!!!! :lol: :lol:

vidcc

04-06-2004, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by sara5564@5 April 2004 - 16:36
Handbags at dawn methinks!!!! :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

J'Pol

04-06-2004, 01:26 AM