Water Cooling

[kaiweiler]

Hey, with the summer coming up, I am looking into the thought of water cooling. I've been looking around and reading reviews and am starting to get some idea on the principles of it.
My questions are:
who here uses water cooling?
if you do, what do you use?
would i be better off buying a decent kit, or to costomize my own for the same amount of money?
I live in Canada, so Canadian money or sites would be awesome
looking for high end performance, and extremely low noise level (as low as possible anyway without giving away performance)
Performance is first, then noise, then last is looks, but looks are always good too :rolleyes:
any suggestions on kits, waterblocks, radiators, anything? price range is about 250 total Canadian but am quite flexible with the price
thanks folks

[tesco]

Originally posted by kaiweiler@5 April 2004 - 15:07
Hey, with the summer coming up, I am looking into the thought of water cooling. I've been looking around and reading reviews and am starting to get some idea on the principles of it.
My questions are:
who here uses water cooling?
if you do, what do you use?
would i be better off buying a decent kit, or to costomize my own for the same amount of money?
I live in Canada, so Canadian money or sites would be awesome
looking for high end performance, and extremely low noise level (as low as possible anyway without giving away performance)
Performance is first, then noise, then last is looks, but looks are always good too :rolleyes:
any suggestions on kits, waterblocks, radiators, anything? price range is about 250 total Canadian but am quite flexible with the price
thanks folks
for the water block there is a good one by Zalman got good reviews but i cant remember the model number sorry so no links.

for the rad if you want really good performance use a car radiator, you can get one for cheap or free from a junkyard then wash and paint it. then find a big fan to use to cool the rad.

im not sure about kits but I hear most of them dont even come close to the performance youll get from a self made one.

[lynx]

I've just got a waterblock and pump by asetek (http://www.asetek.com/) (this page doesn't work in Firefox :angry: ). Build quality is very good but the documentation leaves a little to be desired, but that's no problem as long as you've got a little common sense. I didn't bother with a control unit since I leave it on 24/7, and even I can manage to flick a switch once in a while.

I've gone for the 10mm fittings because they are interchangeable with standard 10mm central heating fittings. This allows me the option of all sorts of standard bends, tees and connectors. I've been testing it for leaks this weekend and hopefully will be installing it tomorrow.

Asetek's standard tubing is needed to connect to the waterblock, but I've also used some 8mm ID tubing (1mm wall thickness gives 10mm OD) which is a lot more flexible than asetek's standard tubing but is an absolute swine to fit into the compression joints. I found the easiest way to do it was to put the tube in the freezer for about 30 minutes before attempting to make the joint, but this still only gives about 1 minute to make the joint.

For heat dissipation I've managed to get an old draught beer cooler, which is thermostatically controlled and at the minimum temp setting enables me to get the water temp down to about 7C, although I'm not sure that I will need it that cold in practice. (I can't imagine what people do with asetek's vapochill units :blink: ). This is why I didn't bother with the control unit, I'm not sure it would handle the current and in any case you don't normally turn these things off.

So, tomorrow's the big day. If you don't hear from me you know it went wrong. ;)

[Mad Cat]

Originally posted by lynx@5 April 2004 - 23:20
I've just got a waterblock and pump by asetek (http://www.asetek.com/) (this page doesn't work in Firefox :angry: ). Build quality is very good but the documentation leaves a little to be desired, but that's no problem as long as you've got a little common sense. I didn't bother with a control unit since I leave it on 24/7, and even I can manage to flick a switch once in a while.

I've gone for the 10mm fittings because they are interchangeable with standard 10mm central heating fittings. This allows me the option of all sorts of standard bends, tees and connectors. I've been testing it for leaks this weekend and hopefully will be installing it tomorrow.

Asetek's standard tubing is needed to connect to the waterblock, but I've also used some 8mm ID tubing (1mm wall thickness gives 10mm OD) which is a lot more flexible than asetek's standard tubing but is an absolute swine to fit into the compression joints. I found the easiest way to do it was to put the tube in the freezer for about 30 minutes before attempting to make the joint, but this still only gives about 1 minute to make the joint.

For heat dissipation I've managed to get an old draught beer cooler, which is thermostatically controlled and at the minimum temp setting enables me to get the water temp down to about 7C, although I'm not sure that I will need it that cold in practice. (I can't imagine what people do with asetek's vapochill units :blink: ). This is why I didn't bother with the control unit, I'm not sure it would handle the current and in any case you don't normally turn these things off.

So, tomorrow's the big day. If you don't hear from me you know it went wrong. ;)
Good luck!

I'm waiting for a case mod of one of those giant Budweiser beer bottles (I think they're coin banks :wacko:) and then beer cool it.

EDIT: Forgot to close brackets :o

[Marius24]

Originally posted by lynx@5 April 2004 - 23:20
asetek (http://www.asetek.com/) (this page doesn't work in Firefox :angry: )
why is that :huh:

[Marius24]

instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)

[lynx]

Originally posted by Marius24@5 April 2004 - 23:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
TheCoolingShop (http://www.thecoolingshop.com) has about the lowest prices I've found for the bits I wanted. You may be able to find other manufacturers with cheaper components, but you generally get what you pay for.

Edit: I've paid about £100 for all my bits and pieces (including the central heating bits), but the beer cooler was free. You would have to add about an extra £50 for a radiator and fan, and £25 if you wanted a control unit.

edit: fixed link

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx+5 April 2004 - 19:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 5 April 2004 - 19:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Marius24@5 April 2004 - 23:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
TheCoolingShop (http://) has about the lowest prices I&#39;ve found for the bits I wanted. You may be able to find other manufacturers with cheaper components, but you generally get what you pay for.

Edit: I&#39;ve paid about £100 for all my bits and pieces (including the central heating bits), but the beer cooler was free. You would have to add about an extra £50 for a radiator and fan, and £25 if you wanted a control unit. [/b][/quote]
link is messed, the linnk says http:/// lol

[Marius24]

Originally posted by ROSSCO_2004+6 April 2004 - 00:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ROSSCO_2004 @ 6 April 2004 - 00:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by lynx@5 April 2004 - 19:08
<!--QuoteBegin-Marius24@5 April 2004 - 23:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
TheCoolingShop (http://) has about the lowest prices I&#39;ve found for the bits I wanted. You may be able to find other manufacturers with cheaper components, but you generally get what you pay for.

Edit: I&#39;ve paid about £100 for all my bits and pieces (including the central heating bits), but the beer cooler was free. You would have to add about an extra £50 for a radiator and fan, and £25 if you wanted a control unit.
link is messed, the linnk says http:/// lol [/b][/quote]
nothing google cant sort out :)

http://www.thecoolingshop.com/index.php

[tesco]

Originally posted by Marius24+5 April 2004 - 19:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marius24 @ 5 April 2004 - 19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by ROSSCO_2004@6 April 2004 - 00:35

Originally posted by lynx@5 April 2004 - 19:08
<!--QuoteBegin-Marius24@5 April 2004 - 23:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
TheCoolingShop (http://) has about the lowest prices I&#39;ve found for the bits I wanted. You may be able to find other manufacturers with cheaper components, but you generally get what you pay for.

Edit: I&#39;ve paid about £100 for all my bits and pieces (including the central heating bits), but the beer cooler was free. You would have to add about an extra £50 for a radiator and fan, and £25 if you wanted a control unit.
link is messed, the linnk says http:/// lol
nothing google cant sort out :)

http://www.thecoolingshop.com/index.php [/b][/quote]
good site.

i want one of these... (http://www.thecoolingshop.com/product_info.php/cPath/3/products_id/696)
http://www.thecoolingshop.com/images/prods/nb47j.jpg

...just gotta find it in canada.

and might get a heatpipe for vid card so i wont need an 80mm fan, or maybe just get some vid ram heatsyncs.

[clocker]

K,
As you know, I have used watercooling (the infamous AquariusII kit, to be exact), but have switched back to air for the time being.

A very popular radiator seems to be the heatercore from an 86 Chevy Chevette.
It&#39;s a good size and has 1/2" fittings- the preferred size for serious watercooling systems it seems.

Of course you still run into the dreaded noise issue...a big radiator and an effective waterblock demand some serious airflow to remove the heat.
Twin 120mm fans (typically Tornadoes) seem to be the solution of choice.

[Samurai]

Originally posted by Marius24@5 April 2004 - 22:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
Aria (http://www.aria.co.uk/)

[Marius24]

Originally posted by Samurai+6 April 2004 - 04:01--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Samurai @ 6 April 2004 - 04:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Marius24@5 April 2004 - 22:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
Aria (http://www.aria.co.uk/) [/b][/quote]
cool nice site. have u bought from them before?

[abu_has_the_power]

wc is good, if u have the dough and the space in ur pc. or u can always get one of those koolance external ones that go on top, but they&#39;re not as good. be careful though, if it leaks or breaks, say byby to everything

[Samurai]

Originally posted by Marius24+6 April 2004 - 17:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marius24 @ 6 April 2004 - 17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Samurai@6 April 2004 - 04:01
<!--QuoteBegin-Marius24@5 April 2004 - 22:58
instead of startin a new topic on basicly the same thing how much would it roughly cost in £ to get a decent water cooling system up and running and anyone got any good UK site for info/pricing? :)
Aria (http://www.aria.co.uk/)
cool nice site. have u bought from them before? [/b][/quote]
Yes. They are very reliable and the prices are excellent too. Highly recommended.

I believe my dad also uses them and bought 60% of his PC&#39;s componants from here too.

[clocker]

I just saw this link to the Zalman Reserator (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/ex-wat-29.html) and thought you might be interested.

I am...

[kaiweiler]

Originally posted by clocker@7 April 2004 - 08:49
I just saw this link to the Zalman Reserator (http://www.frozencpu.com/cgi-bin/frozencpu/ex-wat-29.html) and thought you might be interested.

I am...
Yeah, You sent me that link before via PM clocker, it does look quite good, thanks&#33;
How much of a risk is it though? how easy would it be to mess it up and ruin everything? if you have some general computer knowledge and good common sense, and built my computer myself, think I would be able to add a wc system to it easily?

[kaiweiler]

Has anyone ever seen any Canadian sites with this product? the "Zalman Reserator 1 Complete Silent CPU Water Cooling System"?? I am interested to see how much they are asking for it, I&#39;m guessing 300-350
If your not sure what system it is refer to clockers post, or Here (http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/Reserator1.htm)

[lynx]

In UK that checks out at about £215 including tax & shipping, equivalent to nearly &#036;400 US :angry:

I hope it is more stable than it looks, or at least leakproof AND capable of running on it&#39;s side. 3 litres of water on the floor and a blown cpu would not be my idea of fun.

@Kaiweiler, there&#39;s not much risk as long as you do as much assembly as you can beforehand, and check everything for leaks BEFORE you go near your case.

I&#39;m running a little behind on my mods, took me far too long yesterday to make enough space in what is now purely a computer suite (anyone want a spare bed?), and I&#39;ve been out most of today, so it won&#39;t get finished until sometime tomorrow.

I made a small mistake when positioning the holes in the back of the case for the pipes to pass through. I measured the relative positions using the connectors which fit on the outside. I didn&#39;t realise at the time that the ones on the inside have a larger flange, so they would not fit side-by-side. The solution was simple, either move the top one up a little or move the bottom one down. I decided that I had room to move the top one up.

And that&#39;s where the small mistake became a bigger mistake. When I later came to install the graphics card I realised that the flange on the bottom connector made it almost impossible to fit the retaining screw. If I&#39;d moved the bottom hole down instead, the gap between the connectors would have been in the perfect position. I had to remove the connector to get the screw in place, but fortunately I can just get to it enough to remove the card in the future without removing the connector again.

The case is fully assembled now and just waiting for me to carry the cooler upstairs. If only I could get the water out of the waterbath it would be a lot easier, I suppose I&#39;ll just have to do it one step at a time (literally :lol: ). I wish it had a drain plug.

More reports tomorrow.

[clocker]

Lynx,

Your system sounds fascinating...any chance of pics?

[Marius24]

I heard you could get a liquid to use in Cooling Systems that would not conduct electricity thus not damaging any part if it leaks. Anyone heard of it?

[lynx]

Originally posted by clocker@7 April 2004 - 20:25
Lynx,

Your system sounds fascinating...any chance of pics?
I&#39;ll try once it&#39;s finished, but I&#39;ll have to borrow a digital camera. The couple I&#39;ve been with today have one, and since I&#39;ve spent most of the day sorting out their new pc I&#39;m sure they will let me have it for a couple of hours.

Which reminds me, he&#39;s going to buy me a couple of drinks tonight, so what am I doing here? See you later. :beerchug:

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@7 April 2004 - 15:51
Which reminds me, he&#39;s going to buy me a couple of drinks tonight, so what am I doing here? See you later. :beerchug:
Lucky bastard :lol: cant wait till tommorrow night :D

[lynx]

Well, my pc is back up and running.

Had to fetch my sister-in-law from hospital, more delay, I thought I was never going to get this thing finished.

Anyway, it&#39;s been running flat out for about 25 minutes now, temp has stabilised at 27C cpu/17C mobo. I&#39;m guessing ambient temp is about 20C (up slightly on normal) The mobo temp is down about 8C, the cpu temp is down about 22C, and that&#39;s with the cover now on compared with off before. And the chiller is on setting 5 out of 7, it could go even colder.

Roll on summer, I&#39;m ready for you now. :D

As for noise, the chiller gives a few seconds of rumbling every couple of minutes, and the only noise I can hear from the pump is an occasional hiss as a small air bubble passes through. Hopefully they should be out of the system pretty soon. The noisiest thing now is the case fan, which I can mod to run on 7v now, or possibly remove altogether.

Pics tomorrow, then I can put some insulation on the pipes which may bring the temp down a degree or two.

:clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t:

update: I&#39;ve disconnected all my case fans, just the psu fan left, and that&#39;s cut from 2860 rpm to 2100. I&#39;ll probably need one on the hdd, but I&#39;ll worry about that later. Mobo temp has risen to 25C (i don&#39;t think it is accurate below about 24C anyway), cpu temp to 31C, but it is damn near SILENT.

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@8 April 2004 - 11:56
Well, my pc is back up and running.

Had to fetch my sister-in-law from hospital, more delay, I thought I was never going to get this thing finished.

Anyway, it&#39;s been running flat out for about 25 minutes now, temp has stabilised at 27C cpu/17C mobo. I&#39;m guessing ambient temp is about 20C (up slightly on normal) The mobo temp is down about 8C, the cpu temp is down about 22C, and that&#39;s with the cover now on compared with off before. And the chiller is on setting 5 out of 7, it could go even colder.

Roll on summer, I&#39;m ready for you now. :D

As for noise, the chiller gives a few seconds of rumbling every couple of minutes, and the only noise I can hear from the pump is an occasional hiss as a small air bubble passes through. Hopefully they should be out of the system pretty soon. The noisiest thing now is the case fan, which I can mod to run on 7v now, or possibly remove altogether.

Pics tomorrow, then I can put some insulation on the pipes which may bring the temp down a degree or two.

:clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t: :clap: :w00t:

update: I&#39;ve disconnected all my case fans, just the psu fan left, and that&#39;s cut from 2860 rpm to 2100. I&#39;ll probably need one on the hdd, but I&#39;ll worry about that later. Mobo temp has risen to 25C (i don&#39;t think it is accurate below about 24C anyway), cpu temp to 31C, but it is damn near SILENT.
ooh hopefully you have a really silent hard drive right? if so that would be sweet, probably be a silent computer.

[kaiweiler]

you gotta borrow a digicam lynx&#33; i wanna see what it looks like&#33;

[lynx]

Ok, here are the pics.

Firstly, inside the case, you can see the waterblock at the top, with the pipes leading down and out of the back. The 120mm fan is disconnected and will be removed when I have time.
Image Resized
[img]http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF01.JPG' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF01.JPG')

Secondly, a look round the back of the case, you can see the looped pipework allowing me to move the pc around a little.
Image Resized
[img]http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF02.JPG' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF02.JPG')

Third, here&#39;s the main unit. That&#39;s the pump on top, with temp controls on the front. The large black plug in front of the pump is the filling point for the main water tank. The refrigeration unit cools the water in that tank, and the pump circulates water through cooling coils in the tank.
Image Resized
[img]http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF03.JPG' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF03.JPG')

Finally, a quick look inside the chiller. On the right is the refrigeration unit, with the water tank on the left. There is supposedly an ice bank somewhere at the back. The refrigeration unit creates that by running for about 10 minutes every couple of hours. A couple of stirrers transfer water between the main tank and the ice bank area and consequently keep the tank at a steady temp.
Image Resized
[img]http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF04.JPG' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/misc/DSCF04.JPG')

I&#39;ve now increased Vcore again, by another 0.025v, so Vcore is now 1.79v. This has allowed me to raise the FSB speed to 214MHz, giving a cpu speed of 2354MHz and a processor rating of 3425. Temp have gone up to 33C/26C, but that&#39;s ok for me, there are still a couple of notches left on the chiller. Too early to tell if it is completely stable as I&#39;m currently running a TINKER, but things are looking good.

[Marius24]

wow, thats cool&#33; The inside of your case is abit messy though :P


Still looks good though :)

[clocker]

Very nice, indeed.

What is the reason for the two big 90 degree plastic fittings right off the waterblock?

[lynx]

Actually, they aren&#39;t straight off the waterblock, the two pipes which curve down to the back run parallel to the side of the case.

What you can&#39;t clearly see from that pic is that the waterblock has one inlet and two outlets. There are short pipes from the outlet to a black y-piece, and a very short pipe from the y-piece to one of the 90 degree bends. The inlet pipe between the waterblock and the other 90 degree bend is slightly longer and curves under the y-piece.

I originally tried making the inlet pipe from thinwall tubing (which is used for the bendy areas) to go straight to the back panel, but I wasn&#39;t certain that I had a good seal on the waterblock so I replaced it with stiffer tubing and a bend.

@Marius, the wiring may look a little messy in that photo, but as far as possible everything is tied down to the far wall in order to maximise airflow. It is the lack of field depth in the photo that makes things look a little odd, which is why clocker thought the 90 degree fittings were straight off the waterblock.

[clocker]

Actually Lynx, I knew how your waterblock was configured.
What I don&#39;t understand is why the 90 deg. fittings are grafted in between the block and your bulkhead fittings.

Wouldn&#39;t the hose make the bend without them?

[lynx]

Originally posted by clocker@9 April 2004 - 22:44
Actually Lynx, I knew how your waterblock was configured.
What I don&#39;t understand is why the 90 deg. fittings are grafted in between the block and your bulkhead fittings.

Wouldn&#39;t the hose make the bend without them?
For the inlet, there would probably have been enough flexibility in the tubing provided by Asetek, but certainly not on the outlet.

In any case, I decided that putting the 90 degree bends in at that position gave me more options for the case exit points. If I changed my mind (whether by choice or necessity) then connections directly to the waterblock would not be affected.

And by putting a joint in the tubing it gave me the advantage of not only changing from the stiffwall tubing required for connection to the waterblock to softwall tubing, the extra rotation of two jonts at right angles to each other gave me the freedom to connect the tubes exactly as I needed them.

[Storm]

Originally posted by kaiweiler@5 April 2004 - 21:07
Performance is first, then noise, then last is looks, but looks are always good too :rolleyes:
this is prolly a dumb idea, but has anyone ever thought of hooking your water cooler up 2 a sink?

i mean, you wouldnt have to worry about radiators or anything, or a pump failing....... it would be murder on your water bill i guess though..........

[kaiweiler]

Originally posted by Storm+9 April 2004 - 21:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Storm @ 9 April 2004 - 21:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kaiweiler@5 April 2004 - 21:07
Performance is first, then noise, then last is looks, but looks are always good too&nbsp; :rolleyes:
this is prolly a dumb idea, but has anyone ever thought of hooking your water cooler up 2 a sink?

i mean, you wouldnt have to worry about radiators or anything, or a pump failing....... it would be murder on your water bill i guess though.......... [/b][/quote]
and i don&#39;t assume many people would enjoy sitting by their computer beside the bathroom sink.... :rolleyes:

[tesco]

Originally posted by kaiweiler+9 April 2004 - 20:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kaiweiler @ 9 April 2004 - 20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Storm@9 April 2004 - 21:53
<!--QuoteBegin-kaiweiler@5 April 2004 - 21:07
Performance is first, then noise, then last is looks, but looks are always good too :rolleyes:
this is prolly a dumb idea, but has anyone ever thought of hooking your water cooler up 2 a sink?

i mean, you wouldnt have to worry about radiators or anything, or a pump failing....... it would be murder on your water bill i guess though..........
and i don&#39;t assume many people would enjoy sitting by their computer beside the bathroom sink.... :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
:lol:

anyway, that would be a good idea though...that water is actually pretty cold.

and although its very cheap to install&#092;make, it would be expensive due to the high water bills.