Children Of Today

[Marius24]

a few hours ago a good friend of me and my family got taken away in a police car after he had thrown a knife at someone and it had hit the boy in the back, the boy was then taken away in a ambulance. The boy is 11 and its sickening to see something like this happen so close to my home. Its something you expect to hear on the news, i do not know what has become of the boy who got stabbed but he didn't look good.


What is this world comming to...

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don't wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it's true!

I've had kids (13/14 threaten to "Burn me out" while I sleep, I've seen them smash stuff, burn things down and generally be tossers, they think it's funny, I know a gang of kids who gave me so much grief where I used to live and were 80% of the reason I moved, it was to the point where either I moved or I take the law in my hands. Even a copper told me to "Acidently fall into them......using my elbow" , I know this is'nt all kids obviously but take a look at bullies in schools, children comitting suicide because of other children making their lives hell, I really think they should bring back national service! (now that I've passed the age :lol: )

But I never used to do the stuff like they do now, all these bad things that happen here, my town is tiny and along the seafront on a friday night I used to see couples and families in the summer head along the prom for a walk, they would get to within view of a bunch of nasty kids and turn back :angry:

I could rant for hours about this but I have to say that cos of all these anti punishment laws sociaty is colapsing, I used to stay out of trouble for the most part cos I did'nt want to get the slipper at school then clouted when I got home, a mate has a 10 y/o son who said he would sue his own father if he hit him WTF?? :angry:

Very sad

Jonno B)

[Snee]

How old is your friend, marius?

EDit: unless he is "the boy" who is eleven, as opposed to "the boy" that got hit in the back. Confuzzling.

[Marius24]

the kids where i live aged between 11 and 15 are fkin rats! all they do is stand on street coners and smoke or throw eggs at your house (which i will get them back:01:). I think child punishment should be brought back, parents and grandparents went through it and they are all fine so why shouldn't we?

[Marius24]

Originally posted by SnnY@12 April 2004 - 23:38
How old is your friend, marius?
the boy who got stabbed is in year 9 so i think he is aged about 13 or 14. The boy who threw the knife is 11

[Snee]

Ah, was there intent behind it?

And if so, a motive?

[Marius24]

I wasn't there but the boy who threw the knife has always 'worked his ticket' and i assume he has done something and the situation got out of hand. I will post some more info when/if i find out


Jonno, Kids are getting out of hand, and if parents cannot punnish them what is there to stop them from worse happening?

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Originally posted by Marius24@12 April 2004 - 23:41
I think child punishment should be brought back, parents and grandparents went through it and they are all fine so why shouldn't we?
I agree, they say they stopped corperal punishment cos of child abuse, I'm sorry but if you're sick enough to beat the crap out of your child there's no law thats gonna stop you, all they've done is taken all disciplin away.
Schools give a detention, the kid is given a note to take home for the parent to sign, what happens to the note? Gets thrown away on the way home, it&#39;s what I used to do <_< Yet if you done something wrong when I was 8 or 9 you got smacked and you did&#39;nt do it again :)

A kid can whack me with a stick or throw a bottle at me and get a telling off by a copper or their parents, but if I hit him back I get arested and charged with child abuse. And I&#39;m not talking about 5 y/o&#39;s, I&#39;m talking about kids who stand eye to eye with me, 14/16 y/o.

Aparently anyone under the age of 18 in the uk cannot be sent to trail as an adult, they are a minor, yet the uk legal driving age is 17, so acording to uk law we have 1000&#39;s of minors in charge of leathal weapons ie: Cars

Does&#39;nt make sense to me :blink:

Jonno B)

[Snee]

I just thought, since the victim was a bigger kid, or at least older, that it might be some history behind it. Revenge for something or somesuch.

[Proper Bo]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 00:52
Aparently anyone under the age of 18 in the uk cannot be sent to trail as an adult, they are a minor, yet the uk legal driving age is 17, so acording to uk law we have 1000&#39;s of minors in charge of leathal weapons ie: Cars

Woohoo&#33; I&#39;m off to do me some murdering :D
:lol:

btw, got me 11th driving lesson tomorrow ;)

[JONNO_CELEBS]

See&#33;&#33; Come on, who here is comfortable knowing Bo is on the road? :ph34r:

And Bo, remember dude, that 2 ton chunk of metal is more deadly than a gun <_<

As a biker I know these things cos you car drivers are wankers :lol:

Jonno B)

[Snee]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 01:29
See&#33;&#33; Come on, who here is comfortable knowing Bo is on the road? :ph34r:

And Bo, remember dude, that 2 ton chunk of metal is more deadly than a gun <_<

As a biker I know these things cos you car drivers are wankers :lol:

Jonno B)
Heh, now&#39;s the time to move country, mister J.

[Proper Bo]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 01:29
And Bo, remember dude, that 2 ton chunk of metal is more deadly than a gun <_<

As a biker I know these things cos you car drivers are wankers :lol:

Jonno B)
Oh I&#39;m well aware of that, I used to go out alot on my dad&#39;s bike with him...till i got to being 6"1&#39; and just looked daft sat on the back of a bike, being bigger than the rider :lol:

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Proper Bo, I tell thee+13 April 2004 - 01:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Proper Bo, I tell thee @ 13 April 2004 - 01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 01:29
And Bo, remember dude, that 2 ton chunk of metal is more deadly than a gun <_<

As a biker I know these things cos you car drivers are wankers :lol:

Jonno B)
Oh I&#39;m well aware of that, I used to go out alot on my dad&#39;s bike with him...till i got to being 6"1&#39; and just looked daft sat on the back of a bike, being bigger than the rider :lol: [/b][/quote]
You are 1 foot 6 inches and bigger than your father? What sort of circus family do you come from?

[Proper Bo]

:lol: Feck Aff&#33; :P

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Originally posted by hobbes@13 April 2004 - 00:36

You are 1 foot 6 inches and bigger than your father? What sort of circus family do you come from?
:lol: :lol: You rotten sod :lol: :lol:

I declare this night "Rip the shit outta Bo night" :lol:

Jonno B)

[Proper Bo]

/me goes off to find me big stick :ph34r:

[RGX]

Its morning now ;)

I declare this new day "Over analyze everything Jonno says&#33;" day ;).

[Proper Bo]

Huzzah :D

[hobbes]

Originally posted by RGX@13 April 2004 - 01:43
Its morning now ;)

I declare this new day "Over analyze everything Jonno says&#33;" day ;).
Jonno is calling me "fat" the barsteward&#33;

[j2k4]

Pretty cheeky, alright&#33; :huh:

[bujub22]

http://www.40ozcomics.com/at-b.jpg

[delphin460]

bring back the ability for parents to control their kids without feeling like the cops are gunna take them away

Most of the kids today need a frigging good smack around the head and to learn to respect other ppl.

the courts let the get away with just about everything , and make laws to make it easier for them

i dont know about you guys , but when i was a kid , i was far to scared of what my old man would do to me when he got home , to even think of doing half the stuff kids get away with these days


all this softly softly, talk to them parenting obviously doesnt work, its time the parents had the ability to take control of their own kids again

[j2k4]

I find myself largely in agreement with the preceding post. ;)

[Skweeky]

Hehe, me too j2k4. I used to be scared to come home with less than a 7/10 for schoolwork :huh:

I agree though, there&#39;s nothing wrong with a smack on the bum when a kid did something wrong. I used to babysit my brothers kids a lot when I still lived in Belgium (6 of them at the same time&#33;&#33;). And if the youngest ones (1.5 and 2.5) did something wrong I just slapped their hands for it. That&#39;s the only way the message got through.
There are limits of course, I&#39;d never do what my dad used to do to me :unsure:

[bujub22]

Originally posted by delphin460@13 April 2004 - 01:38
bring back the ability for parents to control their kids without feeling like the cops are gunna take them away

Most of the kids today need a frigging good smack around the head and to learn to respect other ppl.

the courts let the get away with just about everything , and make laws to make it easier for them

i dont know about you guys , but when i was a kid , i was far to scared of what my old man would do to me when he got home , to even think of doing half the stuff kids get away with these days


all this softly softly, talk to them parenting obviously doesnt work, its time the parents had the ability to take control of their own kids again
;) to true mate&#33;


the courts should let parent be parent&#39;s
:angry: ive been holdin this back for bout 5 months now&#33;

round 5 months ago my son 9 yrs ol for the first 3 months of school
this lil bastard ,bullied another kid and his teacher did&#39;nt call us to tell us&#33;
so it was&#39;nt till we got reports back in the mail till we found out&#33;
then he tried to lie about what he did&#33;...but we knew so we put him on punishment ,and it was close to his birthday so we said if u still fuck up&#33;...no birthday ,what he do mess up again by beatin up the kid cuz he thought he told on him&#33;...so my girl whoops his ass for lying and doing it agian&#33;

he went to school told them ppl we abuse him and they put both my sons in foster care for 4 months ...i was so pissed im now sueing the state the school and many more ...cuz there&#39;s more to the story ,but after the second day in foster care he realise his mistake and wanted to come home ..easier said then done&#33;
half the fault lie&#39;s on the teacher cuz she would&#39;nt tell us nothing then when we try to take care of it ...we end up in the court system&#33; :angry: that why my daddy said never trust the law your better on your own tryin to handle stuff ;)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Skweeky@13 April 2004 - 06:31
Hehe, me too j2k4. I used to be scared to come home with less than a 7/10 for schoolwork :huh:

There are limits of course, I&#39;d never do what my dad used to do to me :unsure:
It is to your credit you see this in light of your bad experience, Skweeks. ;)

It must have been very hard indeed. :(

It is a situation similar to that of the Catholic Church; given the recent scandalous behavior of some priests:

Even considering their horrible and sinful behavior, to thereby tar and feather religion is plainly inappropriate.

In the same way, the fact of severe discord or even abuse of children by parents does not dictate a default to another guiding authority.

Family is still the most unifying force in any society; anything that threatens it, threatens us all. ;)

[Skweeky]

Well...my sis decided it was completely wrong to give her kids a smack every now and then and they both are real brats <_<
My other brothers kids do get a smack on the bum when they do something wrong and they&#39;re angels most of the time.

I think I know how I&#39;d raise my kids :D

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Originally posted by RGX@13 April 2004 - 00:43
Its morning now ;)

I declare this new day "Over analyze everything Jonno says&#33;" day ;).
<_< You keep away from me with your anal probing <_<

@Hobbes.......And?? What you gonna do about it? <_<

Come on you lot, wanna fight? I can run <_<

:lol:

Jonno B)

[Peerzy]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 00:40
I declare this night "Rip the shit outta Bo night" :lol:
Ripping the shit, or prevoking people is wrong, it can lead to bad things and flame wars accros 3 different forums... :rolleyes:

[JONNO_CELEBS]

Originally posted by peerzyboy+13 April 2004 - 16:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peerzyboy @ 13 April 2004 - 16:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JONNO_CELEBS@13 April 2004 - 00:40
I declare this night "Rip the shit outta Bo night" :lol:
Ripping the shit, or prevoking people is wrong, it can lead to bad things and flame wars accros 3 different forums... :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
:rolleyes: Whoever told you that? :P

Jonno B)

[dwightfry]

There was a party at a friends place last summer. There were kids as young as 12 drinking and smoking pot. I left right away. Now, some friends have been known to actually by pot through the same group of kids, and it&#39;s not schwag either. I find it VERY hard to believe that kids in my town, let alone in my school, were drinking and smoking bud when I was in 7th grade.

[internet.news]

Originally posted by bujub22@13 April 2004 - 13:26
,but after the second day in foster care he realise his mistake and wanted to come home ..easier said then done&#33;
sorry to hear that Joob. :(

When you say 4 months, do you mean 4 months so far or a given time of 4 months after which a review will take place?

With your son saying he wants to come home, have new reports been filed? (not sure who would do that over there although here (not here but in the Uk) it would be Cafcas.

Have you got good legal advice in all this?

Good luck with it anyway :01:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Skweeky@13 April 2004 - 09:38
Well...my sis decided it was completely wrong to give her kids a smack every now and then and they both are real brats <_<
My other brothers kids do get a smack on the bum when they do something wrong and they&#39;re angels most of the time.

I think I know how I&#39;d raise my kids :D
You are on the right track, Skweeky. :)

BTW-we seem to have intruded on Jonno&#39;s thread. :huh:

[Skweeky]

Shhh, with some luck he won&#39;t notice :lol:

Oh well j2k4...I took care of my brothers kids from when I was 10 or something. I think I have a clear enough view on how to deal with kids by now.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Skweeky@13 April 2004 - 11:26
Shhh, with some luck he won&#39;t notice :lol:

Oh well j2k4...I took care of my brothers kids from when I was 10 or something. I think I have a clear enough view on how to deal with kids by now.
;)

:)

[DWells55]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 April 2004 - 18:33
Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don&#39;t wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it&#39;s true&#33;

I&#39;ve had kids (13/14 threaten to "Burn me out" while I sleep, I&#39;ve seen them smash stuff, burn things down and generally be tossers, they think it&#39;s funny, I know a gang of kids who gave me so much grief where I used to live and were 80% of the reason I moved, it was to the point where either I moved or I take the law in my hands. Even a copper told me to "Acidently fall into them......using my elbow" , I know this is&#39;nt all kids obviously but take a look at bullies in schools, children comitting suicide because of other children making their lives hell, I really think they should bring back national service&#33; (now that I&#39;ve passed the age :lol: )

But I never used to do the stuff like they do now, all these bad things that happen here, my town is tiny and along the seafront on a friday night I used to see couples and families in the summer head along the prom for a walk, they would get to within view of a bunch of nasty kids and turn back :angry:

I could rant for hours about this but I have to say that cos of all these anti punishment laws sociaty is colapsing, I used to stay out of trouble for the most part cos I did&#39;nt want to get the slipper at school then clouted when I got home, a mate has a 10 y/o son who said he would sue his own father if he hit him WTF?? :angry:

Very sad

Jonno B)
I&#39;m 14, and I see myself as a pretty good person, thank you very much. I hate how people my age get branded as hell-raisers, brats, etc. I don&#39;t drink, smoke, do drugs, get in fights, swear, or cause problems at school (and I hear a lot of crap about it, especially the not swearing from other people my age). Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids my age who do (oh say, 90% of my high school [not counting swearing or causing problems, it&#39;s be 99.99%]), but that doesn&#39;t mean all of us should be branded as we so often are. Just my opinion. Have faith, there still are good people my age&#33;

[DanB]

As someone of the right age then DWells, how do you propose the problem should be tackled? :unsure:

[DWells55]

I honestly don&#39;t know. I admit the behavior of minors is a problem, but I&#39;m not sure what to do about it. I just don&#39;t like seeing my whole age group getting branded.

[DanB]

Originally posted by DWells55@13 April 2004 - 20:00
I honestly don&#39;t know. I admit the behavior of minors is a problem, but I&#39;m not sure what to do about it. I just don&#39;t like seeing my whole age group getting branded.
:lol: I know, I felt the same a few years ago when I was a teenager. My little brother&#39;s aren&#39;t like it either but its not the good ones that get noticed ay <_<

[DWells55]

Yeah, you&#39;re right. You always hear about all the problems, and never the positives...

[bujub22]

Originally posted by samsamsamsam+13 April 2004 - 13:09--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (samsamsamsam @ 13 April 2004 - 13:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bujub22@13 April 2004 - 13:26
,but after the second day in foster care he realise his mistake and wanted to come home ..easier said then done&#33;
sorry to hear that Joob. :(

When you say 4 months, do you mean 4 months so far or a given time of 4 months after which a review will take place?

With your son saying he wants to come home, have new reports been filed? (not sure who would do that over there although here (not here but in the Uk) it would be Cafcas.

Have you got good legal advice in all this?

Good luck with it anyway :01: [/b][/quote]
they were in foster care for 4 months and the courts try to dick me around so did the foster care worker&#33; :angry: she kept tryin to play games not contactin us back it was&#39;nt till i threaten to sue that they dropped all charges made us go to parentin classes and the kids are now back home for bout 2 months now&#33;&#33;

but i still plan on suing the school and the foster care provider
the foster care lady was real nasty to me in court and my lawyer warn me that she sneaky so i said fluk that ill sue the bitch and slapped her with the papers that made her get off her ass&#33;

[Gemby!]

Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@12 April 2004 - 23:33
Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don&#39;t wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it&#39;s true&#33;

oi &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

im nice :rolleyes: (innocent face)

and by the way i blame the parents too <_<

[Marius24]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;+13 April 2004 - 20:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gemby&#33; @ 13 April 2004 - 20:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JONNO_CELEBS@12 April 2004 - 23:33
Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don&#39;t wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it&#39;s true&#33;

oi &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

im nice :rolleyes: (innocent face)

and by the way i blame the parents too <_< [/b][/quote]
of course parents are to blame&#33; They brought them into the world and should control them. When(/IF) i have children i will disopline them well, i will not be afraid to hit them but i will not abuse it so that i am always beating them. A warning did the trick for me ;)

[Marius24]

update from my mum... She says the the knife got the boy in his pelvis bone. :blink: Must have been 1 hell of a throw for that to happen or is it not possible? :unsure:

[DWells55]

Originally posted by Marius24+13 April 2004 - 15:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marius24 @ 13 April 2004 - 15:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by gemby&#33;@13 April 2004 - 20:20
<!--QuoteBegin-JONNO_CELEBS@12 April 2004 - 23:33
Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don&#39;t wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it&#39;s true&#33;

oi &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

im nice :rolleyes: (innocent face)

and by the way i blame the parents too <_<
of course parents are to blame&#33; They brought them into the world and should control them. When(/IF) i have children i will disopline them well, i will not be afraid to hit them but i will not abuse it so that i am always beating them. A warning did the trick for me ;) [/b][/quote]
Trust me, at least for me, losing my computer for a week hurts a heck of a lot more than a quick slap on the wrist.

[Skweeky]

That works for older kids I&#39;m sure. But it&#39;s kinda hard to punish a 2-year old that way...

[Marius24]

if they learn when they are younger then wont do it when they are older ;)

[DWells55]

Not always. I was punished when I was younger, but I still get in trouble every now and then. We&#39;re kids, of course we&#39;re going to get pissed off and do something stupid and get in trouble. As for punishing 2 year olds, I don&#39;t think anything works with them...

[DanB]

Originally posted by Skweeky@13 April 2004 - 22:51
That works for older kids I&#39;m sure. But it&#39;s kinda hard to punish a 2-year old that way...
its not that the 2 year olds that are the problem



at the moment :ph34r:

[Gemby!]

Originally posted by Skweeky@13 April 2004 - 21:51
That works for older kids I&#39;m sure. But it&#39;s kinda hard to punish a 2-year old that way...
you could put them in a basket and take them to work - the lil dude will learn from that punishment :)

god im gonna be a great mum lol :lol:

[Biggles]

Originally posted by DWells55+13 April 2004 - 21:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DWells55 @ 13 April 2004 - 21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Marius24@13 April 2004 - 15:33

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@13 April 2004 - 20:20
<!--QuoteBegin-JONNO_CELEBS@12 April 2004 - 23:33
Yup, at the risk of sounding like an old man, kids are nasty little bastards nowadays, personally I blame the parents for the most part and I don&#39;t wanna hear "They always blame the parents" crap, cos it&#39;s true&#33;

oi &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

im nice :rolleyes: (innocent face)

and by the way i blame the parents too <_<
of course parents are to blame&#33; They brought them into the world and should control them. When(/IF) i have children i will disopline them well, i will not be afraid to hit them but i will not abuse it so that i am always beating them. A warning did the trick for me ;)
Trust me, at least for me, losing my computer for a week hurts a heck of a lot more than a quick slap on the wrist. [/b][/quote]
A quick whack where it stings when they are younger is indeed most effective, but for older kids this is where it is at - believe me ;) .

The last time I threatened a "no computer week" my daughter promised to complete all the outstanding homework, accrued punishment exercises from school and to reconcile the Arabs and Israelis.

A fair return I thought (although I believe she is checking with the European Court to see of I can enforce it.)

Mine are 16 and 13 and are, for the most part, good (despite my daughters ability to collect detentions) although I suppose good is a relative term. They don&#39;t attack people or drive nice musicians from their homes.

However, I have no magic formula and I am not going to set myself up as a child rearing expert - down that route lies only a fall. :)

[DWells55]

I&#39;ve never gotten a detention... I don&#39;t know how I&#39;ve avoided them though, the teachers hand out like 5 a class... Worst I got was sent down to the office for 5 minutes for discussing what a bunny has to do with Easter with a friend in Geometry (and I hadn&#39;t been talking before).

[Gemby!]

they only gave out detentions when i started in school and i was a rite goody goody then so now it dont matter

i argue with teachers now and they dont even gimmie 5 mins after schol - FOOLS &#33;&#33;

[Biggles]

Originally posted by DWells55@13 April 2004 - 22:24
I&#39;ve never gotten a detention... I don&#39;t know how I&#39;ve avoided them though, the teachers hand out like 5 a class... Worst I got was sent down to the office for 5 minutes for discussing what a bunny has to do with Easter with a friend in Geometry (and I hadn&#39;t been talking before).
Well apparently you can get detention for drawing Manga characters on your school books, desks, teachers etc., not to mention forgetting homework, previous punishment exercises and generally talking in class.

With regards the bunny, Oestre was the goddess of the spring equinox (21st of March) her symbol was the March Hare. Hence the name Easter and the Easter Bunny. It is one of those Pagan things which has just stuck.

[hi_what_is_up!]

As the kids point of view (I&#39;m 14) I think you should bring back punishment for children say over 13. I&#39;m not really scared of my dad cuz we joke around and get along great but I still respect him and do what he says.

I hate the bastard kids that live by me that do what they want and terrorize other people. I do what I can to keep them away from the little kids in my neighborhood but I don&#39;t like to fight either. It&#39;s funny I&#39;ve never fought anyone in my life and people are scared of me.

The only time I got in trouble in school is when this bastard sophmore...I was in 7th grade advanced algebra with all the older kids threw something at me and I threw a pencil back and he turned his head at the right time and I wacked him right in the eye with the pencil and he got up and yelled "You little fucker&#33;" and we both got detentions but since I had never got in trouble before my teacher decided not to tell my parents as long as I came to the detention when I was supposed to and did what she asked me to do.

On topic: If someone threw a knife at me and I lived they had just better hope that their parents love them enough to die for them. But I&#39;m not a violent person :ph34r: .

[Gemby!]

i know what u mean - they are a rite bunch of fuckers and they ruin us gud-ish kids reputation &#33;&#33;&#33;

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Biggles@13 April 2004 - 16:46
Well apparently you can get detention for drawing Manga characters on your school books, desks, teachers etc., not to mention forgetting homework, previous punishment exercises and generally talking in class.


Biggles-

You indicate here one of the necessary lessons to be learned in life; hopefully while young:

Different people have different standards; one best learn to accomodate others, and not just authority figures either.

On the heels of learning how to give this "space" to others, one learns how to stake out one&#39;s own space, also.

I empathize with the youngsters who feel the inequity of beong lumped in with the "bad apples"; peer pressure, pecking orders-it&#39;s a mess, socially, but that isn&#39;t really so much different than when we were young.

As has been stated elsewhere here, parental authority has been undermined by the legal system, the educational system doesn&#39;t help at all, and the mass media all militate against kids growing up "right".

It really is a wonder as many manage as they do, and I give a tip of my hat to them and parents like yourself who continue to make the effort. :)

My kids are grown, but are, due to certain circumstances, in more-or-less constant need of proper parental guidance.

Funny how much better you get at that once you&#39;re allowed to actually do it. ;)

[Biggles]

J2

Would agree absolutely with you there.

I am fortunate that my son and the detention queen of second year (year 9 in your system, I think) are at a pretty good traditional Scottish school where the teachers can still feel confident enough to give out detention for talking in class rather than for having to reserve it for kids using shotguns to fight turf wars over drug deals.

I am hopeful they both might come through their education with some decent qualifications (but I will touch wood as I say it :ph34r: )

Gemby

Whilst one might agree with your sentiments that is a little course for a young lady, write 100 times I must not .........- :lol:

[j2k4]

I have been looking for this for a few days, and think it bears on the situation of "kids" these days.

It is a column which appeared a couple of years ago.

It&#39;s not too long; What do you think?

Thomas Sowell

Goodbye to Sara and Benjamin?

RECENTLY A COUPLE of dear friends visited us, bringing with them their six-year-old twins, Sara and Benjamin. These are some of the loveliest children you could meet -- not just in appearance, but in their behavior.

They are the kinds of kids you can see in Norman Rockwell paintings, but less and less in the real world.

Now Sara and Benjamin are going off to public school and it is painful to imagine what they might be like a year from now. Most people are unaware how much time and effort the public schools -- and some private schools -- are putting into undermining the values and understanding that children were taught by their parents and re-orienting them toward the avant-garde vision of the world that is fashionable in the educational establishment.

Today&#39;s educators believe it is their job to introduce children like Sara and Benjamin to sex when and in whatever manner they see fit, regardless of what the children&#39;s parents might think. Raw movies of both heterosexuals and homosexuals in action are shown in elementary schools.

Weaning children away from their parents&#39; influence in general is a high priority in many schools. Children sit in what is called a "magic circle" and talk about all sorts of personal things, with the rule being that they are not to repeat any of these things to anyone outside this magic circle.

Sometimes they are explicitly told not to repeat what is said to their parents.

Some handbooks for teachers warn against letting parents know the specifics of what is being done and provide strategies for side-stepping parental questions and concerns. Glowing generalities and high-sounding names like "gifted and talented" programs conceal what are nothing more than brainwashing operations to convert the children from their parents&#39; values to the values preferred by educational gurus.

Right and wrong are among the earliest targets of these programs. "There is no &#39;right&#39; way or &#39;right&#39; age to have life experiences," one widely used textbook says. Another textbook tells children that they may listen to their parents "if you are interested in their ideas." But, if there is a difference of opinion, parent and child alike should see the other&#39;s point of view "as different, not wrong."

Sara and Benjamin are only six years old and are going into the first grade. Will any of this apply to them? Yes. There is a textbook designed for children ranging from pre-school to the third grade, which tells children about their rights and about asserting those rights to parents. Whenever "things happen you don&#39;t like," you have "the right to be angry without being afraid of being punished" it says.

In other words, don&#39;t take any guff off mommy and daddy. Who are they? As another textbook says, parents are just "ordinary people with faults and weaknesses and insecurities and problems just like everyone else." In many of the textbooks, movies and other material used in schools, parents are depicted as old-fashioned people who are out of touch and full of hang-ups.

What these smug underminers of parents fail to understand is that the relationship of a child to his or her parents is the most extraordinary relationship anyone is likely to have with another human being. No one else is likely to sacrifice so much for another person&#39;s well-being. If the avant-garde ideas taught to children in schools blow up in their faces, it is the parents who will be left to pick up the pieces, not the glib gurus.

Most of the classroom teachers who carry out such educational fashions and fetishes have no idea where they originated or what their underlying purpose is. In reality, many of the techniques and strategies used to break down the child&#39;s values, personality and modesty are straight out of totalitarian brainwashing practices from the days of Stalin and Mao.

That is the origin, for example, of the personal journals that children are required to keep in schools all across the United States. These journals are not educational. Gross mistakes in spelling, grammar and usage are ignored, not corrected. These journals are gateways to the psyche and the first step in manipulating little minds.

As our friends departed and went off to enroll their children in the public schools, I could not help wondering if I had seen Sara and Benjamin for the last time. Would they still be the same sweet children after they have been used as guinea pigs by those who claim to be trying to educate them?

[B.Helto]

Originally posted by j2k4@19 April 2004 - 14:17

Thomas Sowell
&nbsp;
Goodbye to Sara and Benjamin?

RECENTLY A COUPLE of dear friends visited us, bringing with them their six-year-old twins, Sara and Benjamin. These are some of the loveliest children you could meet -- not just in appearance, but in their behavior.

They are the kinds of kids you can see in Norman Rockwell paintings, but less and less in the real world.

Now Sara and Benjamin are going off to public school and it is painful to imagine what they might be like a year from now. Most people are unaware how much time and effort the public schools -- and some private schools -- are putting into undermining the values and understanding that children were taught by their parents and re-orienting them toward the avant-garde vision of the world that is fashionable in the educational establishment.

Today&#39;s educators believe it is their job to introduce children like Sara and Benjamin to sex when and in whatever manner they see fit, regardless of what the children&#39;s parents might think. Raw movies of both heterosexuals and homosexuals in action are shown in elementary schools.

Weaning children away from their parents&#39; influence in general is a high priority in many schools. Children sit in what is called a "magic circle" and talk about all sorts of personal things, with the rule being that they are not to repeat any of these things to anyone outside this magic circle.

Sometimes they are explicitly told not to repeat what is said to their parents.

Some handbooks for teachers warn against letting parents know the specifics of what is being done and provide strategies for side-stepping parental questions and concerns. Glowing generalities and high-sounding names like "gifted and talented" programs conceal what are nothing more than brainwashing operations to convert the children from their parents&#39; values to the values preferred by educational gurus.

Right and wrong are among the earliest targets of these programs. "There is no &#39;right&#39; way or &#39;right&#39; age to have life experiences," one widely used textbook says. Another textbook tells children that they may listen to their parents "if you are interested in their ideas." But, if there is a difference of opinion, parent and child alike should see the other&#39;s point of view "as different, not wrong."

Sara and Benjamin are only six years old and are going into the first grade. Will any of this apply to them? Yes. There is a textbook designed for children ranging from pre-school to the third grade, which tells children about their rights and about asserting those rights to parents. Whenever "things happen you don&#39;t like," you have "the right to be angry without being afraid of being punished" it says.

In other words, don&#39;t take any guff off mommy and daddy. Who are they? As another textbook says, parents are just "ordinary people with faults and weaknesses and insecurities and problems just like everyone else." In many of the textbooks, movies and other material used in schools, parents are depicted as old-fashioned people who are out of touch and full of hang-ups.

What these smug underminers of parents fail to understand is that the relationship of a child to his or her parents is the most extraordinary relationship anyone is likely to have with another human being. No one else is likely to sacrifice so much for another person&#39;s well-being. If the avant-garde ideas taught to children in schools blow up in their faces, it is the parents who will be left to pick up the pieces, not the glib gurus.

Most of the classroom teachers who carry out such educational fashions and fetishes have no idea where they originated or what their underlying purpose is. In reality, many of the techniques and strategies used to break down the child&#39;s values, personality and modesty are straight out of totalitarian brainwashing practices from the days of Stalin and Mao.

That is the origin, for example, of the personal journals that children are required to keep in schools all across the United States. These journals are not educational. Gross mistakes in spelling, grammar and usage are ignored, not corrected. These journals are gateways to the psyche and the first step in manipulating little minds.

As our friends departed and went off to enroll their children in the public schools, I could not help wondering if I had seen Sara and Benjamin for the last time. Would they still be the same sweet children after they have been used as guinea pigs by those who claim to be trying to educate them?

I must be living in a different United States.

My son - who has attended public schools - will graduate high school this year, so it is with some experience that I can say the above article is histrionic right-wing bullshit. Not a single statement is backed by anything resembling fact.




P.S.: My favorite quote: "Gross mistakes in spelling, grammar and usage are ignored, not corrected." Sounds like they&#39;re talking about the KL Board. :lol:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by B.Helto@19 April 2004 - 09:13
I must be living in a different United States.

My son - who has attended public schools - will graduate high school this year, so it is with some experience that I can say the above article is histrionic right-wing bullshit. Not a single statement is backed by anything resembling fact.


P.S.: My favorite quote: "Gross mistakes in spelling, grammar and usage are ignored, not corrected." Sounds like they&#39;re talking about the KL Board.&nbsp; :lol:
It is possible you are living in a different United States.

These methodologies see the light of day mainly in urban areas, but how much you see of these types of things depends on exactly where you are.

Much of this "enlightened" schooling takes place in the elementary levels; when it comes to high school, they are manifested in course material, and omission, rather than commission, becomes the order of the day.

Were/are you in the habit of auditing his courses?

I did it with both of my kids; it really put a kink in the day&#39;s lessons, I&#39;ll tell you.

Don&#39;t assume you have an accurate picture of what goes on in your son&#39;s school, in any case.

Perhaps you&#39;d be so kind as to reproduce your son&#39;s transcript so we might see what his course load was?

Bet there&#39;s a few things other than the 3 Rs on it.

Feel free to obscure his grades, as they are not the business of this board.

BTW-It is my experience that those who go &#39;round pronouncing on "histrionic right-wing bullshit" wouldn&#39;t recognize the left-wing equivalent if it bit them on the ass.

[B.Helto]

I&#39;ll try to answer...


These methodologies see the light of day mainly in urban areas, but how much you see of these types of things depends on exactly where you are.

- I live in an urban area.

Much of this "enlightened" schooling takes place in the elementary levels; when it comes to high school, they are manifested in course material, and omission, rather than commission, becomes the order of the day.

- Nothing described in your article as "enlightened schooling" took place in either. You&#39;re not the only parent that has taken an active interest in your children&#39;s education.

Were/are you in the habit of auditing his courses?

- Yes

Don&#39;t assume you have an accurate picture of what goes on in your son&#39;s school, in any case.

- A very condescending remark. Since I disagree with you, that must mean that I don&#39;t have an accurate picture of what goes on.

Perhaps you&#39;d be so kind as to reproduce your son&#39;s transcript so we might see what his course load was?

- That&#39;s funny. The article you posted contains loads of wild claims and conjecture with absolutely nothing to back it up with, yet you want me to post transcripts. We&#39;re not going there.

BTW-It is my experience that those who go &#39;round pronouncing on "histrionic right-wing bullshit" wouldn&#39;t recognize the left-wing equivalent if it bit them on the ass.

- Another condescending statement.
I call it as I see it. If you post an article that contains claims of "raw movies of both heterosexuals and homosexuals... [shown] in elementary schools", "brainwashing operations " and "smug underminers of parents " without citing one single verifiable example, I&#39;m gonna call it bullshit.

Regardless, the proof is in the results. My son has had some pretty amazing teachers (and a few bad ones), his values show no sign of being "undermined". No avante-garde vision of the world, "secret circles" or alien abductions to speak of.

So what should I believe - my own first-hand experience, or a right-wing rant against liberalism in public schools?

[j2k4]

I will apologize for any offense; your phrasing put me off.

Mr Sowell wrote a column with anecdotal information; columns are opinion pieces, not presented as proof, though this fact does not preclude the truth of his assertions.

I take it you disbelieve such things exist/occur?

I would undertake to offer other information as proof if you don&#39;t believe it exists.

For now, though, I must adjourn in pursuit of my daily bread. ;)

[sArA]

I have 2 kids, a boy of 8 and a girl of 11. They are both well behaved most of the time. I have resorted to a smack from time to time, particularly when they were younger and reasoning was not an option. They are not afraid of me, they are not abused. Corporal punishment is rarely if ever an option nowadays, those days are done. Now they can be reasoned with, they know what is right and wrong. Of course, its a shame that they have to attend school with other kids who don&#39;t seem to understand these basic principles.

It also appears that there are a lot of kids that are given little or no guidance in behaviour. Not just a few, but lots...this worries me for the future, when the &#39;nice&#39; kids are the ones that are in the minority. Of course, what this really means for us adults is that when the day comes that we need to be cared for, the generation with that responsibility will have no concept of anything other than self, self, self.

Personal development is important, but so is personal responsibility. There seems to be a growing culture of blame whereby people are allowed to divorce responsibility for their actions to the state or their parents or their school or whatever. :frusty:

[vidcc]

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/arm.jpg