Ron Atkinson

[zacspeed]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/t...dio/3648051.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3648051.stm)


Football pundit Ron Atkinson has left ITV and the Guardian over a racist comment about a black Chelsea player.

ITV said Mr Atkinson was "devastated and very sorry" after a comment made in the wake of Chelsea's Champions League game against Monaco on Tuesday.

Do you think he is right to quit his job over this? :blink:

[4th gen]

Of course! He should have been sacked straight away

[Biggles]

The "n" word is generally considered pretty bad these days. He had little option.

[Rat Faced]

Better to resign than be sacked.

[zacspeed]

Just one random google found
You Can't Diss Me
by 2 Pac

Album : 



nigger you can diss me and diss me again
but won't stop so nigger fuck you and fuck
you and fuck you again.I'm the illest fillest
nigger called E-Z the illest fillest lil kidG
there Is nothing wrong with me there is
something wrong with you so nigger fuck you
what's wrong with me pulling my pants down
under my ass up down to my knee's with a
extra large shirt and to with ass nike's on my
feet that's just me!!
even my mama doesn't tell  me what to do
so who the fuck are you to tell me what I can
and can't do you ain't god you ain't jezus and
you ain't my dade so nigger don't make me
made.I'ts all like clommelenady I'ts all about
my body,sweet body prettty face and I'f gate
the cashe to bounce your girl's ass.
and I'f you whone kill me I'm E-Z the lilkidG
love is like kid's in gang's.you are that bad to
diss me behind my back but are you that bad
to diss me in my face too, you sick bastard and if
you don't like me because I said that you are a
sick nigger then you can suck a dick nigger

niggaz can't stand me E-Z the lilkidG
niggaz whone kill me E-Z the lilkidG
by that name you'll  remember me
you can diss me and diss me again
but I wont stop being the lilkidG
I'll still be the illefillest nigger called E-Z
the lilkidG...

nigger you whone diss me make sure that I don't
diss you disss me like you are running me over with
a rover then its all over do you wanna kill me get a
get yourself a gun and make sure that I die and
let no motherfucking blacktear drip from my eye I'll
be a true playboy untill the day that I die and that
will be the day that I wry  4 my niggaz the day that
I'll die 4 my niggaz all you bitches and bitchass niggaz
no that I aint the prettiest are the badest but by this
shit you are making me the madest
clommelenady its like 12 gunshots in your body
there is no with man are nigger that haves to fear me 
lord can you hear me

I am sure I would have found a million other rap songs that use that word,
so, how come it's ok for a black guy to use the word "Nigger" but not Ron Atkinson?

Please don't get me wrong on this, I am really on the fence on this one, but I do feel this is a bit of a double standard.

[4th gen]

Originally posted by zacspeed@22 April 2004 - 18:55
Please don't get me wrong on this, I am really on the fence on this one, but I do feel this is a bit of a double standard.
Of course there's a double standard on this issue.

For a white person to say "nigg*r" is unacceptable but for a black person to say it is slightly more acceptable. However, if a black person says "crack*r", it's basically the same as a white person saying "nigg*r". Racism is relative

[J'Pol]

I have read the source and cannot see a quote of what he actually said, or the context in which he said it.

Could someone enlighten me.

There is a distinction between making racist comments and having racist beliefs.

I for one use terms which could be considered sectarian, I call friends huns for example. They call me a tague. Neither I, nor they consider ourselves to have sectarian beliefs. I would not do it to a stranger.

You may disagree with this position, I could fully understand that. However if it does not offend them or me then it really is our own business.

I obviously appreciate the difference when it is broadcast on radio or television, whether intentional or not. I agree if he used the "n word" he absolutely had to go. However I will not brand him a racist on that alone.

Insensitive, stupid, ill-informed and old fashioned, maybe. However it's what is in his heart that makes him racist. Given the number of black players he has employed and developed and who speak so highly of him, I find that charge hard to believe.

[zacspeed]

I beleive the comment was: "He is what's known as a f****** lazy n****"

[ilw]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+22 April 2004 - 20:12--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol &#064; 22 April 2004 - 20:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Insensitive, stupid, ill-informed and old fashioned, maybe. However it&#39;s what is in his heart that makes him racist. [/b]
I basically agree, but i can&#39;t help thinking that what he says behind what he thought were closed doors, is very illustrative of his views. Practically everyone in this country must work with people of other races, and they can get along just fine, but a certain percentage of those people are legitimately racist, but simply not open about it. Anyone who doesn&#39;t know him personally can&#39;t say whether he&#39;s racist at heart from the little we know of him, including this remark, but the quote is pretty damning.

btw i think the actual quote was
<!--QuoteBegin-Ron Atkinson

"He&#39;s what is known in some schools as a fucking lazy thick nigger"[/quote]

Oh and apparently this was transmitted not only over britain, but over other parts of the world including the middle east.

[SeK612]

http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=110117

[DanB]

I thought it was only aired in the Middle East :unsure:


On their coverage of the match that is

[Arm]

Originally posted by 4th gen@22 April 2004 - 15:01
For a white person to say "nigg*r" is unacceptable but for a black person to say it is slightly more acceptable. However, if a black person says "crack*r", it&#39;s basically the same as a white person saying "nigg*r". Racism is relative
No cracker is not an offensive word. :rolleyes: There is no racial slur you can make to a white man. Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone. B)

[leftism]

Originally posted by Arm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>No cracker is not an offensive word. [/b]

It is actually. It&#39;s intended to be a derogatory term for a white person.

<!--QuoteBegin-Arm
here is no racial slur you can make to a white man[/quote]

Double standards?

Anyway I digress.. :)

Although what he said was completely unacceptable, I would be surprised if he was a genuine racist. He was hiring young black players when most managers wouldn&#39;t touch them with a 10 foot poll.I&#39;ve also seen black players on the news supporting him. I doubt they would be doing this if the guy really was a racist.

I think he was right to resign, but if it turns out that this is all he is remembered for I think that would be a shame.

[J'Pol]

Please stop mis-quoting people, or quoting them out of context. I for one am getting sick of it.

He did not say "here is no racial slur you can make to a white man"

He said "There is no racial slur you can make to a white man. Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone."

You knew perfectly well what the post meant.

[Arm]

Originally posted by leftism+22 April 2004 - 20:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism @ 22 April 2004 - 20:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Arm
No cracker is not an offensive word.

It is actually. It&#39;s intended to be a derogatory term for a white person. [/b][/quote]
-_- Well no shit but who gets offended by calling someone a cracker. You cannot make a racist term for a white man and expect it to offend someone. The white men are on top of the world and coming up with alot of the racist comments so calling them a cracker wont offend them. When someone calls me a cracker I think nothing about it because it doesnt hurt me. :01:

[leftism]

Originally posted by J;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>He did not say "here is no racial slur you can make to a white man"

He said ". Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone."[/b]

Are you seriously suggesting the second sentence affects the meaning of the first? :huh:

Tell me what does "There is no racial slur you can make to a white man" mean on its own, and what does "There is no racial slur you can make to a white man." mean when the second sentence is placed after it?

If you want to see an example of misquoting look to yourself.


Originally posted by leftism+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol@

<!--QuoteBegin-leftism

I do not "support the supply of lewd photographs of 15 year old girls".


Yes you did.

You implied that for someone to post these photographs was acceptable, as long as the poster was also the subject.
[/quote]

No I did not.

I said that she should not be jailed for what she has done and should not be facing such serious charges or be labelled a "child pornographer".

Thats quite different from "implying" that what this girl did is "acceptable".
[/b][/quote]

I don&#39;t misquote people and I dont attempt to insinuate someone is a paedophile just because they disagree with me. I leave such honourable work to those who are worthy of it. <_<

[leftism]

Originally posted by Arm
Well no shit but who gets offended by calling someone a cracker. You cannot make a racist term for a white man and expect it to offend someone. The white men are on top of the world and coming up with alot of the racist comments so calling them a cracker wont offend them.

Ah right, so because "white men are on top of the world and coming up with alot of the racist comments" you cannot be racially offensive towards white people.

I would be offended if a black guy called me a "cracker" or a "white bastard". Is there any reason why I shouldn&#39;t be?

[vidcc]

someone once said on the forum " I had to do it, i read your post and i rolled my eyes so far back in their sockets i was looking at the floor behind me :rolleyes: "

I wonder if anyone can guess which post here made me do just that?

Answers in the spam lounge only please :lol:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by leftism+23 April 2004 - 02:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism @ 23 April 2004 - 02:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
<!--QuoteBegin-Arm
here is no racial slur you can make to a white man

[/b][/quote]
That is a mis-quote. That is a matter of fact, not of opinion.

Oh and how is cracker racist. I was not aware of the word being such, prior to this thread.

Where I come from a "cracker" is something that is really good. As in "great joke, that&#39;s a cracker". So I certainly wouldn&#39;t be offended by it. Presumably in your neck of the woods it has an entirely different meaning.

I think this may be the point in relation to certain words. They have different meaning, or strength of meaning, to different groups or individuals.

[leftism]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That is a mis-quote. That is a matter of fact, not of opinion.[/b]

No its not a misquote you keep saying it is but you are unable to explain the "real meaning" of the author and the "bogus meaning" I am alleged to have attached to it.


Originally posted by leftism+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Tell me what does "There is no racial slur you can make to a white man" mean on its own, and what does "There is no racial slur you can make to a white man." mean when the second sentence is placed after it?[/b]

Where did you verify that as fact?

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol@
Oh and how is cracker racist. I was not aware of the word being such, prior to this thread.[/quote]

It is a derogatory term that can only be applied to white people. It&#39;s the equivalent of calling a black man "nigger". Google will bring you up to speed on it&#39;s origins.

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol
Where I come from a "cracker" is something that is really good. As in "great joke, that&#39;s a cracker". So I certainly wouldn&#39;t be offended by it. Presumably in your neck of the woods it has an entirely different meaning.
[/quote]

So if a black guy came up to you and screamed "YOU FUCKING CRACKER" :angry: in your face would you think "wow that guy thinks I&#39;m &#39;something really good&#39;"? :clap: PLease.. don&#39;t be so facetious. You would automatically understand you were being insulted as it all comes down to the intention of the speaker.

However, I suspect you already know this, which makes me wonder why we&#39;re having this conversation in the first place.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by leftism+23 April 2004 - 18:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism &#064; 23 April 2004 - 18:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

It is a derogatory term that can only be applied to white people. It&#39;s the equivalent of calling a black man "nigger". Google will bring you up to speed on it&#39;s origins.

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol
Where I come from a "cracker" is something that is really good. As in "great joke, that&#39;s a cracker". So I certainly wouldn&#39;t be offended by it. Presumably in your neck of the woods it has an entirely different meaning.


So if a black guy came up to you and screamed "YOU FUCKING CRACKER" :angry: in your face would you think "wow that guy thinks I&#39;m &#39;something really good&#39;"? :clap: PLease.. don&#39;t be so facetious. You would automatically understand you were being insulted as it all comes down to the intention of the speaker.
[/b][/quote]
I agree in part.


Where i live, it means much as J&#39;Pol said..its good. I cant be offended by someone using that word on me.

However, if someone screamed "You are a fucking Genius&#33;&#33; :angry: " in my face, i&#39;d be pissed off.

Not because of the word, but due to the screaming in my face.


So yes, as to the part of that post that stated i&#39;d be pissed off by someone screaming something in my face... I agree.

That doesnt make it a racist comment. That takes intent.


People can use the "Nigger" word in jest; as an example, with no racist intent. Some "Blacks" use the word "Nigga" themselves, in the context they are using it, its a "joke" with no Racial slur involved... That word used by a "White", loses the joke element for many.

People; black, white or pink with blue polkadots, can find it offensive.

This is why both versions of the word are frowned upon in the forum. Not just because they are "Racist", that depends upon intent...but people still find the word itself distastful and offensive.

This is why Ron Atkinson had to go. I think few people that know him have called him a Racist, especially if you look at his record. However he is a "Role Model" and it was transmitted. His employers would therefore have to distance themselves... its much better all around that he resigned before he was pushed, he is obviously intelligent enough to have known this.


As to any "words" offending me personally, I dont think ive come across any.

It takes some type of self doubt about yourself, the word as applied is either True or False. If True, then there is no insult unless you are ashamed of that fact. If False, then its a lie and you can ignore it without dignifying it with a reaction.

I can do nothing about either situation, therefore i dont let it bother me.

[J'Pol]

Arm said

"There is no racial slur you can make to a white man. Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone. "

Your "quote" was

"here is no racial slur you can make to a white man"

Your "quote" contained different words from those used by the original poster. This means that it was a mis-quote. That really is a matter of fact, I fail to see how you cannot understand that.

[vidcc]

Is it the missing &#39;T"?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by vidcc@23 April 2004 - 21:18
Is it the missing &#39;T"?
I pity the fool talkin&#39; gibber-jabber about the T&#33;

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dberneyn/mr%20t.jpg























http://japanimatedfastshow.homestead.com/files/I_llGetMeCoatComical.jpg

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes+23 April 2004 - 12:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 23 April 2004 - 12:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vidcc@23 April 2004 - 21:18
Is it the missing &#39;T"?
I pity the fool talkin&#39; gibber-jabber about the T&#33;

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dberneyn/mr%20t.jpg























http://japanimatedfastshow.homestead.com/files/I_llGetMeCoatComical.jpg [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

darn that made me laugh

[Chevy]

http://www.comedyonline.co.uk/gallery/images/frank-carson.jpg


(catchphrase)

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Chevy@23 April 2004 - 21:28
http://www.comedyonline.co.uk/gallery/images/frank-carson.jpg


(catchphrase)
That&#39;s a Cracker

[J'Pol]

Indeed Bunny Boy,

Nice to see the old sense of humour.

It was in fac a mis-quote, the words used were not the same. Standard procedure for a mis-quote one would have thought

A matter of fac , not opinion.

[vidcc]

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/dull1.gif

[leftism]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol
There is no racial slur you can make to a white man. Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone. "

Your "quote" was

"here is no racial slur you can make to a white man"

Your "quote" contained different words from those used by the original poster. This means that it was a mis-quote. That really is a matter of fact, I fail to see how you cannot understand that.


What is the difference in meaning between

"There is no racial slur you can make to a white man"

and

"There is no racial slur you can make to a white man. Calling a white man a cracker wont offend anyone"

Answer: There is no difference in meaning.

According to your definition of a misquote if I write a 100 word post and you quote 10 words without changing the meaning then you are "misquoting" me.

My definition of a misquote is intentionally misrepresenting the meaning of the author via selective quoting.

Thats why you said "You knew perfectly well what the post meant.". Now you&#39;ve had to concede that I didn&#39;t misrepresent Arm&#39;s meaning you&#39;ve decided to change the meaning of the word "misquote" to suit your own troublemaking purposes.

PS

If you really meant the missing &#39;T&#39; ( and I don&#39;t think you did) I think you&#39;ll find the appropriate description is a "typo" not a "misquote". In case that is too complicated for you to work out, the distinction is that the former is accidental while the latter is intended.

I cant believe we&#39;ve had this many posts over a typo :rolleyes: .

[djweiser]

He kinda messed up once in a very long time... but he messed up preety bad&#33; A think if those 2 could solved it between them , he should have his job back. Allthough he has perhaps lost alot of respect over this issue.

[soopaman]

Wrong. The kind of language he used has no place in a modern, multi-cultural country like Britain. His claim that he "thought the microphone was off"makes it seem even worse.

Good riddance to a shit pundit&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Chevy]

After this, even if he&#39;d kept the job he&#39;d always be thought of as the guy who&#39;s racist* and every comment made in relation to a black player during a match would be over-scrutinised.

I&#39;m glad he&#39;s gone. There is no way he should continue a job as a public figure in a sport desperately trying to get rid of racist crap. To allow him to continue working would have condoned this kind of behaviour and would be a step backwards.


(*and also as the guy who always pronounced Kanu as "Canoe")

[j2k4]

It seems appropriate, even given his previous efforts to give blacks a leg up, that his comment (no matter how it is characterized, or mitigated by his "actual" beliefs) trumps other factors.

I know many of these types; the ones who say things while in their cups they would never say otherwise.

My attitude is, if it comes out when one is drunk, it is in there somewhere when one is sober.

I have said farewell to lots of people over this very thing.

[j4y3m]

If he would have said "He&#39;s what is known in some schools as a lazy thick nigger" instead of "He&#39;s what is known in some schools as a fucking lazy thick nigger" I think it wouldn&#39;t have been so bad. :unsure:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by j4y3m@25 April 2004 - 20:17
If he would have said "He&#39;s what is known in some schools as a lazy thick nigger" instead of "He&#39;s what is known in some schools as a fucking lazy thick nigger" I think it wouldn&#39;t have been so bad. :unsure:
Well, yes; he did pile it a little higher and deeper with that, didn&#39;t he.

I mean, surely he offended sexual practitioners everywhere? :huh:

Egregiously gratuitous. ;)