Nick Berg Beheaded In Iraq

[j2k4]

I'll make this easy for certain members:

I'm looking for expressions of outrage at this act that are at least on a par with those having to do with the Iraqi prisoners, for which acts I will express my loathing now (I hadn't previously, for reasons many of you are aware of).

I'm sure it will be argued that this fellow "asked for it" by having the temerity to partake in the rebuilding of Iraqi infrastructure (I say this as that is how he is described in media reports; if he was one of the contract security people, I imagine that would/will be published), and had, unless subsequent reports change, the status of a non-combatant.

I sincerely hope this is not seen as the "tit" to our "tat", but it might be viewed that way by some; I honestly can't say.

Please word any "ifs", "ands", "buts", or any other caveats very carefully.

[2nd gen noob]

Post removed by RF:

If you have a political statement, other than a sick joke, then post it in a thread other than one of sympathy.

[Rat Faced]

For those that dont know...

news24.com (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,6119,2-10-1460_1525439,00.html)


Please do not link the video here.

I know its readily available, we just dont want it.



This guy was killed by Al Queda as "revenge" for the prisoner abuses, he had nothing to do with it himself, nor was guilty of any other crime. He was, apparently, in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My sympathies go out to his family, friends and colleagues.

Two wrongs do not make a right, and never will.

[Biggles]

There are no ifs or buts, every life lost in Iraq be it combatant or non-combatant is a tragic waste.

I saw an interesting documentary on BBC3 the other night about Israel/Palestine. It showed the other side - the friendship between the two communities. At the very end two good friends from across the divide said "the two communities will live side by side, that is not the question - it's just how many will have to die before it happens".

I fear we have a way to go in both the Holy Land and Iraq and tears will be shed by many on all sides for some time yet.

[sArA]

Sickening.... :(

There is no justification for brutality from any 'side'

[thewizeard]

This only goes to show, how necessary it was/ is that the the coalition made an end on Hussein's regime and they should be supported at all costs.

My sympathies to the bereaved.

[vidcc]

I agree fully and my sympathy goes to the family.

I have often pointed out that acts of resistance such as suicide bombs are an inevitable fact of any invasion/conflict. However this particular act can in no way be considered an act of war. It was plain simple murder.
Using revenge as an excuse is as wrong as the original act.
I think we should be proud of the fact that we do express our outrage at wrong acts comitted by our side...it shows we are not savages.

[BigBank_Hank]

A very sad situation to say the least. My deepest sympathies to his family.

@Nigel - Be prepared for the flood that is coming

[SeK612]

This is disgusting and wrong. It is very stupid that lives of innocent people are being ended so mindlessly. So Bush is idiotic? The coalition have no place in Iraq? The western countries are shafting the third world and those worse off? America is after oil? none of these warrant such acts.

As for it being a retaliation for those who have been abused under U.S and U.K imprisonment it is supposedly being delt with and killing people is not an adequate or sound response :(

Such acts will also lead to further alienation for the moderate Muslims (which by all accounts is most) and increase tensions across the world and play into the hands of far right organisations such as the BNP.

[leftism]

The idea that this cowardly murder was related to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is laughable.

These people don't care who they kill. Iraqis, Americans.. as long as the killing has half a chance of inciting an extreme response and destabilising Iraq, anyone will do.

[Alex H]

@Hank - Well spotted.


Originally posted by nigel123
This only goes to show, how necessary it was/ is that the the coalition made an end on Hussein's regime and they should be supported at all costs.

My sympathies to the bereaved.

WTF? My sympathies go to the bereaved too, but but how on earth does an American phone engineer being killed by an Al Quada group prove that Saddam Hussein ws a bad man with weapons of mass destruction? There is not connection here at all. Al Quada are using the volatile situation in Iraq to fight the US (cause thats what they do) and apparently murdering foreign civilians is a good way to do this (albeit from a f*cked up point of view. This situation of insurgent chaos arose as a natural consequence to the war, but has nothing at all to do with the reasons for invading Iraq in the first place.

The death of Nick Berg does not mean that George Bush is right, or that the coalition should be supported at all costs.

If the "cost" is torturing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners, should it be payed? Or is that the reason given for this man's death in the first place?

[james_bond_rulez]

oh man i completely lost my appitite when i saw that on the news :x

totally disgusted :angry:

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

I found the Video on CNN but they wanted me to sign up to see it.Somebody send me a PM where it can be downloaded or something....please.

[2nd gen noob]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@12 May 2004 - 04:17
I found the Video on CNN but they wanted me to sign up to see it.Somebody send me a PM where it can be downloaded or something....please.
You can see some of it (though not all) at the Associated Press (http://www.ap.org/) site free...

[cpt_azad]

Originally posted by Alex H+11 May 2004 - 19:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 11 May 2004 - 19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> @Hank - Well spotted.

<!--QuoteBegin-nigel123
This only goes to show, how necessary it was/ is that the the coalition made an end on Hussein&#39;s regime and they should be supported at all costs.

My sympathies to the bereaved.

WTF? My sympathies go to the bereaved too, but but how on earth does an American phone engineer being killed by an Al Quada group prove that Saddam Hussein ws a bad man with weapons of mass destruction? There is not connection here at all. Al Quada are using the volatile situation in Iraq to fight the US (cause thats what they do) and apparently murdering foreign civilians is a good way to do this (albeit from a f*cked up point of view. This situation of insurgent chaos arose as a natural consequence to the war, but has nothing at all to do with the reasons for invading Iraq in the first place.

The death of Nick Berg does not mean that George Bush is right, or that the coalition should be supported at all costs.

If the "cost" is torturing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners, should it be payed? Or is that the reason given for this man&#39;s death in the first place? [/b][/quote]
Amen to that my friend. Sympathies to the family(ies) of this man, 2 wrongs never make a right but try telling that to al-qaeda :angry: :( but that has absolutely nothing to do with saddam hussein (who i might add never had any WMD&#39;s [except those USED during the iran-iraq war supplied by the U.S. gov&#39;t/military], prove me wrong on this one. Iraq is distabalizing faster than you could imagine, and these kind of acts done by terrorists will only make it worst, and that&#39;s exactly what the terrorists want.



oh man i completely lost my appitite when i saw that on the news&nbsp; :x

totally disgusted&nbsp; :angry:

i didn&#39;t watch it and i probably won&#39;t. but you know what this means right? double the retaliation from the coaliation forces which takes us back to the point i made earlier, 2 wrongs never make a right (they make it worst) and in this case that&#39;s 3 wrongs never make a right.

[Ariel_001]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@12 May 2004 - 04:17
I found the Video on CNN but they wanted me to sign up to see it.Somebody send me a PM where it can be downloaded or something....please.
I found the video on overnet but can someone translate the video? Maybe find a english transcript somewhere? I am not trying to support them or condoning it or anything like that. I want to know what there saying.

[2nd gen noob]

Originally posted by Ariel_001+12 May 2004 - 06:27--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ariel_001 @ 12 May 2004 - 06:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@12 May 2004 - 04:17
I found the Video on CNN but they wanted me to sign up to see it.Somebody send me a PM where it can be downloaded or something....please.
I found the video on overnet but can someone translate the video? Maybe find a english transcript somewhere? I am not trying to support them or condoning it or anything like that. I want to know what there saying. [/b][/quote]
There are transcriptions on most of the big news sites, like cnn, ap etc.

Basically they say that they offered berg in a prisoner exchange but were denied.

[Ariel_001]

They summarize it and most likely leave out big parts of it. Am looking for a word by word translation and can someone find or tell me what the website were the video came from? It is hard to find.

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

;) I do not want to see the whole thing.I seen enough.Thanks.

[BawA]

here you go see the fuking unsencored video, man it was so sick at last they cut his head off
Good speed i got 42k

File: nick berg beheading video - Warning - Graphic&#33;.wmv
Length: 5566007 Bytes, 5436KB
UUHash: =c+TRAdXmVNeLvSHlwKyjtHRoH2c=


Edit: just seacrh for "Beheaded video " and u get "nick berg excution video #2" download that.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by Alex H+12 May 2004 - 03:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H @ 12 May 2004 - 03:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> @Hank - Well spotted.

<!--QuoteBegin-nigel123
This only goes to show, how necessary it was/ is that the the coalition made an end on Hussein&#39;s regime and they should be supported at all costs.

My sympathies to the bereaved.

WTF? My sympathies go to the bereaved too, but but how on earth does an American phone engineer being killed by an Al Quada group prove that Saddam Hussein ws a bad man with weapons of mass destruction? There is not connection here at all. Al Quada are using the volatile situation in Iraq to fight the US (cause thats what they do) and apparently murdering foreign civilians is a good way to do this (albeit from a f*cked up point of view. This situation of insurgent chaos arose as a natural consequence to the war, but has nothing at all to do with the reasons for invading Iraq in the first place.

The death of Nick Berg does not mean that George Bush is right, or that the coalition should be supported at all costs.

If the "cost" is torturing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners, should it be payed? Or is that the reason given for this man&#39;s death in the first place? [/b][/quote]
Al-Qaeda?...It does not exist in my opinion. These are the same people who were torturing their own people over the last...well how long was Saddam in power? No&#33; These are just common murderers.

Perhaps your are too young to remember the pictures of dead gassed mothers clutching their dead babies, in a little mountain village in northern Iraq?

As far as "wmd" are concerned; if I buy a baseball bat and slam someone over the head, and kill them, who is to blame? ( not really a good analogy, but I suppose you get the drift)

Have you ever spoken with tortured, (Iraqi) asylum seekers or tried to help them? This is my daily work.

The shame of the West, is that the job of returning Iraq to the Iraqi people was not started shortly after mistreatment of the Iraqi&#39;s and the surrounding countries began.

I believe myself that all these crimes, that are committed in the name of Allah, or whatever name you wish to give to God, has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the message of the Holy Quran, and unfortunately, brings Islam, wrongly, into disrepute.

Now George, what about Tibet?

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

:P Man.Why are people still useing hash Files? :P


:huh: My bad.Am just use to all of us on SoulSeek.So they not needed.What other Program uses Hash Files besides old Kazaa Lite?Have not used that in Months. :blink:

[BawA]

dont use hash just search for the word "Beheaded video " and ull get "nick berg excution video #2" download that.

[SeK612]

Why do you want to see this :unsure: Can&#39;t you use your imagination. I read a bit of the transcript from the link Rat Face posted and from that I know I certainly don&#39;t want to see it (guy says who he is then one of the masked people around him pulls a knife across his throat, he screams as he dies).

Besides the perpitrators are seeking for this reaction (placing it on the net so the whole world can see it).

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

;) Like I posted above.I do not want to see no more then what I already seen.Do not need to see it all.

:P So People stop PMing me on here and on SoulSeek&#33;And stop useing Hash Files in the Future. :P

[BawA]

Hey FC if u want i can upload file somewhere and give u the link :lol: :lol: :lol:
but be sure that u wont be able to eat for copule of hrs :lol: :lol:

[Alex H]

Originally posted by nigel123+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Al-Qaeda?...It does not exist in my opinion. These are the same people who were torturing their own people over the last...well how long was Saddam in power? No&#33; These are just common murderers.[/b]

I think the US government would disagree with you there. Isn&#39;t chasing Al-Qaeda the reason Bush started the "War on Terror" in the first place? And if Iraqis from Saddam&#39;s era are pissed at the Yanks for ending their party, and end up joining an Al-Quada linked group to fight them, is that surprising?


Originally posted by nigel123+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As far as "wmd" are concerned; if I buy a baseball bat and slam someone over the head, and kill them, who is to blame? ( not really a good analogy, but I suppose you get the drift)[/b]

No I do not get the drift at all.

<!--QuoteBegin-nigel123@
Have you ever spoken with tortured, (Iraqi) asylum seekers or tried to help them? This is my daily work.[/quote]

Yes I have. I live in Australia and have been to some of our detention centres for asylum seekers and have been fighting to get them released ever since. I have also worked with Iranian men who were tortured by the Iraqis during the war. One of them has a network of scars, 8 toes, 1 testical, 3/4 of a tongue and stutters. They had horrible things done to them, but I still wouldn&#39;t give someone imunity from prosecution and a blank cheque to find the people who did that to them.

<!--QuoteBegin-nigel123
I believe myself that all these crimes, that are committed in the name of Allah, or whatever name you wish to give to God, has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the message of the Holy Quran, and unfortunately, brings Islam, wrongly, into disrepute.[/quote]

I agree with you, however I still do not believe that supporting the coalition "at all costs" is justified by this man&#39;s death.

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by nigel123+12 May 2004 - 07:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 12 May 2004 - 07:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Al-Qaeda?...It does not exist in my opinion. These are the same people who were torturing their own people over the last...well how long was Saddam in power? No&#33; These are just common murderers.
[/b]

I think there is plenty of evidence that Al Qaeda exists, I have not heard anyone deny their existence, even Al Qaeda themselves take great pleasure in admitting they exist. I think you&#39;re getting them confused with Santa Claus..

<!--QuoteBegin-nigel123

As far as "wmd" are concerned; if I buy a baseball bat and slam someone over the head, and kill them, who is to blame? ( not really a good analogy, but I suppose you get the drift)
[/quote]

Yes, but if someone sells you a baseball bat then I guess they assume you are going to use it to play baseball.. <_<

If someone wants to buy deadly poison gas and missile systems, then what do you think they are going to be using it for.. crop-spraying? :blink:

[thewizeard]

Well obviously I mean that the person that uses a weapon to kill is responsible for the killing and not the manufacturer... A virus, car, lorry, atom bomb, or whatever in the hands of a psychopath, can be a weapon of mass destruction.

To make myself clear, (hopefully) in my opinion, all life has an equal right to a peaceful existence.

As regards to your own experience, I am glad to hear that you are not just an armchair critic; and will add that my statement, "at all costs", was my original indignation at that cruel deed. So I also agree here with you when you say,


but I still wouldn't give someone imunity from prosecution and a blank cheque to find the people who did that to them.


@ That last statement of yours is a very good point Barbarossa.

[foot loose]

Right im in the Uk and we have pictures of american/ english soilders mistreating iraqie suspect&#39;s (putting leads round there necks, stripping them naked) and there was a uproar in uk. Blar had to come up with a speech to explan what is going on.
But this is nothing compared to the Beheaded of Nick Berg in iraq. when i watched it i wanted to cry. this guy was a civilian in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel sorry for the iraqies and what they are going thoug, but the beheading of Nick Berg is going to make the muslims that live in uk/usa lives hell. coz when they were cutting off his head they continouly sayed alla wak bar alla wak bar alla wak bar...

[Snee]

I don&#39;t argue against this being wrong, and I most certainly do not believe that the people who did it had any right to do it.

These are criminals, terrorists, and should be made to pay. There is no justification and no justice in it, if they truly were soldiers of their faith instead of the cowards they are, they would long since had died on the frontline defending against the coalition "invasion", not still would they be skulking around commiting atrocity against others, civilians doing their job to boot.

The people who did this are cowards and the scum of the earth.



Having said that, these people do not represent the Iraqi people. They do not represent anyone but themselves and their fellow scumbags, no matter what they think.

Part of the outrage against the maltreatment of prisoners in Iraq on the behalf of US soldiers, IMO, comes from the fact that said prisoners were abused by representatives, official representatives, of the US, because that is what the US soldiers in Iraq are.

Edit: punctuation

[junkyardking]

These guys are sick, they could have atleast granted him a quick death.

[TROUBLE^MAKER]

AL-QUADA DOESN"T SCREW AROUND HE WAS DEAD FROM THE START OF HIS ABDUCTION LONG BEFORE THOSE PICTURES WERE PUBLISHed.
This is just more fuel for the fire the ends will justify the means the America public now demands.

[jetje]

My opinion,

It&#39;s just their version of Shock and Awe....

It&#39;s sad people get killed in wars so i regret this one as i do all other killings from both sides.

This method is used cause western people don&#39;t like this style, i shocks us... well that&#39;s exactly what they try to achieve.
If there was no television and internet they probablly would have hanged the prisoner or shot him. But the fact they know we think this is pure horror, made them do it this way. It&#39;s all about public opinions.
They don&#39;t have the menpower or firepower and money their opponents have so they try to play the public opinion so that the public will set pressure to the governements to back out of Iraq.

This guy was just sadly enough in he wrong place at the wrong time... and i do feel sorry for his family.

[ahctlucabbuS]

This is sad indeed, my thoughts to the family of the man.

I agree with some of the above posts that these men are criminals and not representative of the iraqi/muslim population.

War is fucked up, noone will argue that. And no matter who gets killed it&#39;s still sad. War should be the last resort. When Bush and the american administraton have sort of admitted that they went to war on a false premise, Bush and his people will have to or atleast should take responsible for this fucked up situation. Frankly I think it&#39;s ubelivable that the man have the stomack to ask the american people to elect him for a second period, but thats another discussion.

Didn&#39;t watch this video and never will watch this volunteraly. I think it&#39;s pretty sick and respectless to the guy getting killed to help sharing and distributing this.

edit: clarity

[yonki]

Originally posted by Barky@12 May 2004 - 14:53
This is sad indeed, my thoughts to the family of the man.

I agree with some of the above posts that these men are criminals and not representative of the iraqi/muslim population.

War is fucked up, noone will argue that. And no matter who gets killed it&#39;s still sad. War should be the last resort. When Bush and the american administraton have sort of admitted that they went to war on a false premise, Bush and his people will have to or atleast should take responsible for this fucked up situation. Frankly I think it&#39;s ubelivable that the man have the stomack to ask the american people to elect him for a second period, but thats another discussion.

Didn&#39;t watch this video and never will watch this volunteraly. I think it&#39;s pretty sick and respectless to the guy getting killed to help sharing and distributing this.

edit: clarity
I totally agree with you. I just hope they fix the situation in Iraq or we&#39;ll have more and more terrorists.

[mikenmike0001]

so okay, i saw a short version of the clip......don&#39;t know much news about it....how did they capture him anyways? is he like a tourist or something? contractor....shit, don&#39;t those people usually have military units around to guide and aid thm? they already had that incident where 4 people were burned and hung......

so this thing, this...beheading..it just sickens me......i talked about it on my xanga when i first watched it today.....damn.....it&#39;s just horrible......i&#39;d rather take a bullet in the head then to die like that.......that&#39;s so painful...and suffereing to have to go out like that.....and what the FUCK were they mumbling about when that was happening....i couldnt&#39; tell if they were laughing or if they were praying..

.but yeah, i&#39;ve seen these types of executions before......not as a hobby or anything, but more like...okay, i&#39;m in the us, it&#39;s safe an dall this and everything is okay.

.....what&#39;s out there? have you ever imagined or get a good idea of what it&#39;s like to be outside living in the us......those types of thigns tha tyou hear, about.......beheadings, well, aren&#39;t normal, but they&#39;re not rare to hear about......that&#39;s like they&#39;re way of executing people as compared to our electric chair or whatever.......but yeah........that was gross...

[SeK612]

He is supposed to have been a free lance contractor looking for work. He had been picked up by Iraqi police as he was "wandering" around and its not a particularly safe thing to be doing as a western foreigner in Iraq at the moment. I believe U.S forces tried to provide means for him to return to the U.S but he refused and left.

I believe they were muttering some rhetoric about Allah in an Islamic dialect.

It&#39;s interested that this method of execution may be more common in countries such as Iraq (although its been reported that most Iraqi&#39;s are disgusted by this) - do they have the death sentence in Iraq and if so how do they kill people? I&#39;ve heard of things like "death by stoning" as methods of execution.

[SirGolgi]

Originally posted by SeK612@13 May 2004 - 07:52
He is supposed to have been a free lance contractor looking for work. He had been picked up by Iraqi police as he was "wandering" around and its not a particularly safe thing to be doing as a western foreigner in Iraq at the moment. I believe U.S forces tried to provide means for him to return to the U.S but he refused and left.
If that is true I do not see how you can sympathize for anyone but his family. The man asked to die. If your that ridiculously stupid to wander around a country where everyone blatantly hates you.. then you deserve to die. What would possess any civilian with half a brain to go there? If he was literally &#39;wandering&#39; around that God forsaken country this earth is better off without him being able to spread his terrible genes.

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by SirGolgi+13 May 2004 - 16:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SirGolgi &#064; 13 May 2004 - 16:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SeK612@13 May 2004 - 07:52
He is supposed to have been a free lance contractor looking for work. He had been picked up by Iraqi police as he was "wandering" around and its not a particularly safe thing to be doing as a western foreigner in Iraq at the moment. I believe U.S forces tried to provide means for him to return to the U.S but he refused and left.
If that is true I do not see how you can sympathize for anyone but his family. The man asked to die. If your that ridiculously stupid to wander around a country where everyone blatantly hates you.. then you deserve to die. What would possess any civilian with half a brain to go there? If he was literally &#39;wandering&#39; around that God forsaken country this earth is better off without him being able to spread his terrible genes. [/b][/quote]
Hypoesque in its crassness...

It doesn&#39;t matter how the man got there or what he was doing, the fact remains that he was the victim of a brutal act in retaliation for events he had nothing to do with. That&#39;s never right, no matter how you look at it.

I&#39;m assuming that with an attitude like that you won&#39;t get to spread your terrible genes. That&#39;s the only good thing I can take from that post.


My condolences to Berg&#39;s family and friends, and may the man himself rest in peace.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Lamsey+13 May 2004 - 12:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey &#064; 13 May 2004 - 12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by SirGolgi@13 May 2004 - 16:07
<!--QuoteBegin-SeK612@13 May 2004 - 07:52
He is supposed to have been a free lance contractor looking for work. He had been picked up by Iraqi police as he was "wandering" around and its not a particularly safe thing to be doing as a western foreigner in Iraq at the moment. I believe U.S forces tried to provide means for him to return to the U.S but he refused and left.
If that is true I do not see how you can sympathize for anyone but his family. The man asked to die. If your that ridiculously stupid to wander around a country where everyone blatantly hates you.. then you deserve to die. What would possess any civilian with half a brain to go there? If he was literally &#39;wandering&#39; around that God forsaken country this earth is better off without him being able to spread his terrible genes.
Hypoesque in its crassness...

It doesn&#39;t matter how the man got there or what he was doing, the fact remains that he was the victim of a brutal act in retaliation for events he had nothing to do with. That&#39;s never right, no matter how you look at it.

I&#39;m assuming that with an attitude like that you won&#39;t get to spread your terrible genes. That&#39;s the only good thing I can take from that post.


My condolences to Berg&#39;s family and friends, and may the man himself rest in peace. [/b][/quote]
Sorry Lamsey, I have a different way of saying it....

STFU SirGolgi the idiot&#33;&#33;&#33;

Please go lick a cat&#39;s butt.


I&#39;m sure Berg&#39;s family would love to see such remarks from you.
You actually insult his children with that remark.
It&#39;s better not to saying anything instead of sprouting that shit.

[Mathea]

Has anyone shown TROUBLE^MAKER and SirGolgi the lounge?

TROUBLE^MAKER: obviously a person&#39;s opinions are wanted... but in a constructive manner. If all you can come up with are stupid pictures and a remark such as your response to hobbes about baby babble... you dont belong in here, you belong in the lounge. This was meant as a serious discussion....

SirGolgi: I second Lamsey&#39;s post in that if this is infact your real attitude, you will never be able to reproduce and that your genes will die off with you...