I Am Sorry

[Neil__]

It was inevitable.
The American injustices had to be answered.

Just like 9/11 we could all see this coming months in advance.

Before 9/11 happened I personally predicted a political, monetary and military target to be attacked by one of the countries that Bush provoked. This doesn't mean that I believe these targets were justified, it just proves that the targeting of these places shows how easy a target America has set itself up to be.

Obviously the incompetence of the 9/11 stance has pervaded to this day and although there is no justification for the brutal slaughter of Nick Berg, one cannot divert one's attention from the fact that the western world is carving up Iraqi financial and political interests and therefore there is a major anarchistic influence that insists on such negative press.

I do not believe that anyone who rejects American influence in Iraq is a supporter of Saddam Hussein but that they just want their country back intact. Therefore some resistance is obviously justified, but......

Murder is murder, whoever commits it for whatever reason.

Nick Berg died in vain.

Nick Berg was sacrificed and still nothing will change.

America rules the world, right?

This crime has NOTHING to do with Allah.


Neil

p.s. Moderators, please let this be a separate thread.

[muchspl2]

[conspiracy theory]
May 13, 2004
It's the same chair !!!! OMFG !!

Here's where you really need the tin foil hat. Look at this pic that was released today of the latest prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. Notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!

http://marc.perkel.com/images/prison01.jpg

http://marc.perkel.com/images/berg-chair.jpg

http://marc.perkel.com/images/babe-chair.jpg

I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison. Then - as I've said before - what is Nicholas Berg doing in an orange prison jumpsuit? The orange jumpsuit is the same color as the ones used at the prison!!! Terrorists don't don't put the people they kidnap in orange prison jumpsuits!

Now - put that together with the fact that these "terrorists" are WHITE and FAT and they are wearing BULLET PROOF VESTS!! So who goes around wearing bullet proof vests all the time? People like CIA - Prison guards!

This is enough to scare the shit out of you but - Nicholas Berg was murdered by AMERICANS at Abu Ghraib prison. They staged it so as to make it look like terrorists murdered Berg.

If you have a different opinion then you tell me why they have the same plastic furnature - the same walls - the same floorboard color - and the same orange jumpsuit. You tell me why these terrorists are fat white guys wearing bullet proof vests. You tell me why they speak bad arabic. You tell me why they yell like Americans when they kill Berg. I suppose the terrorist picked up those chairs at the local WalMart!

There is a dispute as to if Berg was in US custody. He was arrested by Iraqi police but they claim they turned him over to American custody. America however denies that they had him.

CNN said initially that they were sure the voice was NOT al-Zarqawi. The CIA however confirms that it is. Isn't that amazing! I listen to the voices and it doesn't sound like the voices of someone who speaks Arabic as their first language.

But you see - it's not about the voices that make you think it's not al-Zarqawi. In May 2002 Zarqawi traveled to Iraq. He had his leg amputated and had a prosthetic limb to replace it. So - for a guy with ONE LEG al-Zarqawi is VERY NIMBLE on his feet! So - make you wonder how well the CIA thought things through when they decided to play terrorist?

This is what a REAL terroris look like. This is the picture of Richard Pearl who was also killed by terrorists. Notice the thin brown hands - the grabbing of the hair - and the gun to the head. The guy is mean - angry. Pearl has on ordinary clothes and his hands are chained. When you look at the picture you can feel the wildness of a true terrorist. You can tell Pearl looks like he knows he is in big trouble. The clothes on the terrorists look normal for the reagon - but on the photos of the Berg terrorists - they look like they are in a costume.

http://marc.perkel.com/images/pearl.jpg

http://marc.perkel.com/images/berg.jpg

Now look at the Berg terrorists. These guys look like the 5 stooges! They are FAT and WHITE. Check out the guy on the right. Do I see WHITE SHOES? Wonder how he keeps them clean running around the Iraqi deasert?

When he reads the statement - does he sound angry? I don't hear it. He's reading a script.

As to can see on terrist 2, 4, and 5 - the BULLET PROOF VESTS. American MPs wear them all the time. To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected. I guess they never thought they would show up under the terrorist costume.

Berg has no idea what it about to happen. He looks comfortable - perhaps to comfortable. I think they probably told him that they wanted him to pretend to be a hostage in order to get out of prison. Berg knew he was back at Abu Ghraib prison and that his "captors" were Americans - and that he was playing a role. Notice the orange ju,psuit in the following picture.

http://marc.perkel.com/images/orangejumpsuit.jpg

The beheading changed the mood of the nation. Several lawmakers commented that after the beheading thit it reminded them what the real issues were. So the beheading had the intended effect - that is - to inflame Americans and get them to think that torture is something that can be acceptable.

What we are seeing here people scares me beyond belief. I sit here stunned. I want to call someone but don't know who to call. If this turns out to be true - the world will experience a moment of horror unlike anything the world has ever experienced - except maybe the nuking of Japan.



[/conspiracy theory]

[Busyman]

I remember my conspiracy theory that 9/11 was staged to introduce certain laws (Patriot Act) then I said mmmm nahhhhh.

I never put anything past Bush though.

@Neil - I don't really remember what Bush did to inflame the Middle East before 9/11. Enlighten me.

I figured they were already inflamed.

[Neil__]

You need proof for that one muchspl2. But can we put it past the Slaughterer of Texas with 50+ under his belt

Picking on insane political groups gets nasty responses,
Especially for Bush
but I doubt if even he would kill his own when he can provoke others to do it for him.

Neil

[hobbes]

Could someone please explain why the Iraqi's are resisting? We have the country and we certainly don't want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.

The ideal situation for the US is a "friendly" regime.

It would seem the goal of the "resistance" is to keep to country in turmoil, disrupt any effort to stabilize and hope the Americans will leave when the death toll gets too high for the American public to stomach.

If we leave now, Iraq will either be invaded by her neighbors, who will slaughter all, or become a lawlesss land lead by warlords, as in Afghanistan. Both Iraq and the US lose here.

It would seem to me that the common citizen of Iraq should want the country to become peaceful and with a stable government in place. Any government has got to be better than a return to the Saddam status-quo. The resistance, in the end, will serve those who wish to capitalize on the situation.

These are just my thoughts.

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 21:46
Could someone please explain why the Iraqi's are resisting? We have the country and we certainly don't want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.

The ideal situation for the US is a "friendly" regime.

It would seem the goal of the "resistance" is to keep to country in turmoil, disrupt any effort to stabilize and hope the Americans will leave when the death toll gets too high for the American public to stomach.

If we leave now, Iraq will either be invaded by her neighbors, who will slaughter all, or become a lawlesss land lead by warlords, as in Afghanistan. Both Iraq and the US lose here.

It would seem to me that the common citizen of Iraq should want the country to become peaceful and with a stable government in place. Any government has got to be better than a return to the Saddam status-quo. The resistance, in the end, will serve those who which to capitalize on the situation.

These are just my thoughts.
You hit the nail directly on the head. I have said the same thing myself in other threads.

[Neil__]

Originally posted by hobbes@15 May 2004 - 03:46
We have the country and we certainly don't want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.




Yeah right

Like you want to hand over that strategic stronghold to a bunch of WASP atheists

America needs oil and Iraq is a stronghold

We'll wait and see if you'll ever leave their country

I doubt you ever will.

Neil

[Neil__]

If it wasn't for Blair (Bush's Poodle) then it would be over.

America can't handle more solitary deaths

A Coward and a Poodle in it together

hobbes,
Remember if a British Guy had been beheaded then Blaire would be history

I just wish the bastard would leave you to it.

Neil.

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

;) Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.

[Neil__]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 May 2004 - 04:12
;) Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Neil__+15 May 2004 - 03:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ &#064; 15 May 2004 - 03:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@15 May 2004 - 03:46
We have the country and we certainly don&#39;t want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.




Yeah right

Like you want to hand over that strategic stronghold to a bunch of WASP atheists

America needs oil and Iraq is a stronghold

We&#39;ll wait and see if you&#39;ll ever leave their country

I doubt you ever will.

Neil [/b][/quote]
Then why did we ever leave Kuwait? We could have stayed there and taken their oil. They have plenty of oil, which Saddam wanted.

What is a WASP Athiest?

Why do you get rid of your leader because someone is killed by knife and not a gun.

Neil, I don&#39;t understand.

Changed last line because it was non-constructive.

[Neil__]

If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wishes.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Neil__@15 May 2004 - 04:27
If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wisheh.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil
I was right you are drunk&#33; :lol:

[Neil__]

Originally posted by hobbes+15 May 2004 - 04:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 15 May 2004 - 04:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Neil__@15 May 2004 - 04:27
If an Al Qaeda member booked into a Brighton Hotel during tje Tory Party Conference then Blaire wiuld be in serious shit for just that

Doesnt anybody remember Madrid.

Or did he not go to war against our wisheh.

We&#39;re nor American, We&#39;re not pro WAR.

Neil
I was right you are drunk&#33; :lol: [/b][/quote]



as a skunk

For once we completly agree.

Without you hobbes this forum sou&#39;ld be piontless.

Everyone needs hobes.

Neil

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 19:46
Could someone please explain why the Iraqi&#39;s are resisting? We have the country and we certainly don&#39;t want to keep it. The parents of every soldier over there just want someone to hand it over too.

The ideal situation for the US is a "friendly" regime.

It would seem the goal of the "resistance" is to keep to country in turmoil, disrupt any effort to stabilize and hope the Americans will leave when the death toll gets too high for the American public to stomach.

If we leave now, Iraq will either be invaded by her neighbors, who will slaughter all, or become a lawlesss land lead by warlords, as in Afghanistan. Both Iraq and the US lose here.

It would seem to me that the common citizen of Iraq should want the country to become peaceful and with a stable government in place. Any government has got to be better than a return to the Saddam status-quo. The resistance, in the end, will serve those who which to capitalize on the situation.

These are just my thoughts.
In order to understand that one has to stop thinking like an American or any other westerner and start thinking like an Arab.( which i can&#39;t do )

could it be that the resisting forces don&#39;t see the "american way of life" the same way as we do and reject to being forced to change ?
just because we think the way we do things is the best way doesn&#39;t mean everyone else does.
Saddam was a vicious dictator but he understood the arab mind and culture and his regime reflected that..... it may be unpallatable for us to accept but a western emulation of government in the middle east may never bring about the "level" of stability in the way that the brutal regimes of the likes of saddams did with all its inhumanities. ( i know it was far from perfect )
I make this point because fundamentalist groups such as al quada do not embrace democracy, so even a democratically elected government would have to be hardlined to bring any remote resemblance of peace. ( we could end up with violence such as with israel/palestine)
Remeber also that not all Arabs are one people even within one country and tribal wars are a strong factor.
Also remember that some of this violence is from "outside" factors and not from the iraqis.
I could never for the life of me imagine the USA being able to accept invasion and a different way of life being forced upon it and being expected to be "grateful" ( i can see the arguements now making the difference between us and the saddam regime but try to imagine it for the sake of the point so you could see the other guys view) I don&#39;t like Bush one bit but i would fight off any outside influence to remove him and be dictated to as to who could replace him.
Of course this is a very simplistic view of possibilities and there are arguements contray to this but it is just a suggestion in trying to figure out why a people might not be grateful at being invaded.

to sumarise, it&#39;s not about being grateful for removing one bad regime, they may well be grateful for that....but they don&#39;t want to be told how to make their own future.

[Neil__]

Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 May 2004 - 04:12
;) Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.



Hardly the most shining of examples, Mr FC

I remember you when you were a rebel.

Oh how the nighty have sucked up.

Neil

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

Originally posted by Neil__+14 May 2004 - 22:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ &#064; 14 May 2004 - 22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 May 2004 - 04:12
;) Please one of the Mods make a Sticky.Nick Berg Threads poping up everywhere.



Hardly the most shining of examples, Mr FC

I remember you when you were a rebel.

Oh how the nighty have sucked up.

Neil [/b][/quote]
;) Whatever kid.I suck up to nobody.


I am just saying there is alot of Threads about this guy.More of a Rebel then you ever will be boy. :P

[hobbes]

vidcc,

I discussed this in another thread, but I think the huge gaff the US made was assuming that the factions remaining in Iraq have any interest in getting along.

A fear or hatred for Saddam was all that united these very different people. Iraq is a line drawn on a map which is forced upon a diverse group of people who have no common touchstone.

In the US, we have different races and religions, but we are all united under the concept of "freedom of the individual and the pursuit of happiness".

Our American minds attempt to extrapolate this to Iraq, wouldn&#39;t they love this grand idea.

No, they don&#39;t. The country is filled with people who would rather kill for their religious beliefs than accept a warm and fuzzy "free" government that would allow different sects and ethnicities to live side by side.

The situation is grave, I have no idea what the solution may be.


Edit: Vidcc, why do you make your threads so unpalettable to the eye. I hate reading them, though I like your posts. Give a brother some eye candy.

[muchspl2]

thread jack = denied :(















:lol:

[vidcc]

Hobbes.

i must have missed that topic, i don&#39;t have the time i would like to read everything but i do read what i reply to :)
But basically you had the answer to your question before you posed it to us with the different ways of thinking. :)

Edit: Vidcc, why do you make your threads so unpalettable to the eye. I hate reading them, though I like your posts. Give a brother some eye candy.

here you go

http://hk.yimg.com/hk/providers/boombeat/20030901/kylie.jpg

[Neil__]

Originally posted by vidcc@15 May 2004 - 04:44
.I make this point because fundamentalist groups such as al quada do not embrace democracy



If your use of Jihad relates to the fudermentalist in the Islamic religion then you may be right as some may say that a Jihad is justified due to the torture of innocent Muslims by the Infidel. But it is more likely that it is extremissts are to blame rather than the devout.

this is not to say just because they may be extreme they are unjustified in repelling the invading forces with whatever actions they see fit

For Examplr

A bunch of Muslims stormed into Washington stating that bush was a warmonger and his actions puts the world in danger and they argue that they would give the capital back in a couple of months as long as they can coordinate a regime change

What would American do

Neil.

[vidcc]

Neil

I made no reference to jihads in the post which was admittedly off the thread topic. I should have used a better example than i did but Al quaeda was the most well know of the "arab" fundamentalist groups even though it had nothing to do with Iraq. The point of my post was that most hardline Arab groups (just as we have political parties) wish to gain power but do not embrace democracy, making a western emulated democracy almost unworkable in such a society

I don&#39;t view extremist as ordinary muslims, rather people misusing the muslim name. Islam doesn&#39;t condone killing.

If you are after agreement of your original point, yes something like the nick berg incident happening was probably inevitable. It isn&#39;t that an American was killed that is causing the outrage as much as the way it happened so we cannot just take it as an inevitability of war or revenge.

[J'Pol]

As I understand it the date for hand over of power to the Iraqi civilian authority is set. I believe it is in June, there has been nothing to indicate a change to this, that I have heard.

At that time they will also take control of the prisoners currently being held, they will also try anyone awaiting trial.

So it turns out White Anglo Saxon Protestants don&#39;t believe in God after all, that comes as no surprise to me.

[Biggles]

I read Muchspl&#39;s conspiracy theory and was actually surprised.







:lol: It was far more coherent than most conspiracy theories I have read.






Not sure I buy it though - and if it was ever proved to be true it would result in the clear out of just about everybody in the CIA in that region and perhaps above too.

[incrediblk]

i wouldn&#39;t be surprised if bush ""retaliates"" in berg&#39;s name. already we have seen what his ""retaliation"" 4 9 11 has amounted 2. oops Bush did it again. why do the evil people win in the end while berg an simple american is slaughtered?

[peat moss]

Ya I watched the video . I tucked in and Kissed my little boy&#39;s after . And thanked god I live in a free country .


Edit . I&#39;m sick thinking of his mom and dad . Poor soul&#39;s