Why Dont Muslims Emigrate To America

[Neil__]

But?

[hobbes]

Actually, most Muslim families of means send their children here for college and post graduate education.

Why don't they come here to live and raise their young 'uns here?

Easy, because you cannot unlearn enlightenment.

Once people taste freedom and choice, it cannot be unlearned.

They want to sent their children to glean what our universities have to offer, but do not want them to savor the fruits of freedom.

You cannot raise a Muslim child in the US and expect him grow up and accept what he would have in his native theocracy.

Once people see the world without bars, they refuse to return to the cage.

[cpt_azad]

Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 21:26
Actually, most Muslim families of means send their children here for college and post graduate education.

Why don't they come here to live and raise their young 'uns here?

Easy, because you cannot unlearn enlightenment.

Once people taste freedom and choice, it cannot be unlearned.

They want to sent their children to glean what our universities have to offer, but do not want them to savor the fruits of freedom.

You cannot raise a Muslim child in the US and expect him grow up and accept what he would have in his native theocracy.

Once people see the world without bars, they refuse to return to the cage.
so ur basically calling mulsims that live in other countries all live according to a culture that is so old, that they don't want their kids to taste freedom. lol, ur pretty dumb.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by cpt_azad+15 May 2004 - 06:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cpt_azad &#064; 15 May 2004 - 06:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 21:26
Actually, most Muslim families of means send their children here for college and post graduate education.

Why don&#39;t they come here to live and raise their young &#39;uns here?

Easy, because you cannot unlearn enlightenment.

Once people taste freedom and choice, it cannot be unlearned.

They want to sent their children to glean what our universities have to offer, but do not want them to savor the fruits of freedom.

You cannot raise a Muslim child in the US and expect him grow up and accept what he would have in his native theocracy.

Once people see the world without bars, they refuse to return to the cage.
so ur basically calling mulsims that live in other countries all live according to a culture that is so old, that they don&#39;t want their kids to taste freedom. lol, ur pretty dumb.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-cpt_azad@10 April 2004 - 05:39
thank you, some one atleast knows what i felt like at that point in time.&nbsp; yes, i was shaking like a schoolgirl after the incident (don&#39;t know why, possibly because of the adrenaline?).&nbsp; [/quote]
Hey Azad,

Do you remember this thread, after you claimed you had gotten robbed and you responded to my post.

Was I being stupid then too?

Do you like living in town called "denial" or what?

Platitudes have no value to the educated.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by hobbes@14 May 2004 - 21:26
enlightenment

...

the fruits of freedom

dear muslim world,

please enjoy our enlightenment.

warmest regards,
america

http://www.azstarnet.com/mda/postcardtel/mda_CarrotTop.jpg

http://www.kingworld.com/syndicated/wof/logo.jpg

http://killtheweb.com/blog/images/bushsuit.jpg

http://www.americas-best.com/graphics/pics_ronald-mcdonald.jpg

http://www.shorty.com/hank/hank.gif

[junkyardking]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[cpt_azad]

denial? i&#39;m not even muslim but i think i know idiotic statements when i see one, that&#39;s a pretty typical response coming from a true american citizen and i salute u for that, sure, muslims were like that 2-3 decades ago, and some still are, MOST aren&#39;t (UAE for example).

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

:D God bless America. :D

[Biggles]

I may be wrong, but I don&#39;t think green cards are given away these days.



The overwhelming majority of the 1 billion+ Muslims just get on with their lives as they are. Like most people, they are inately conservative and view change with suspicion (often deep suspicion). They have no desire to go anywhere and do not want foreign ways impinging on them (especially if it is not on their terms)



The rich and powerful tend to consider themselves above such parochial concerns. I know from my university days some of the Arab students dabbled with alcohol, gambling and girls. However, some became highly politicised; ususally to the far left, but not exclusively.

Precisely because of inate conservatism we all tend to think the way we do things may not be perfect, but no one else does them better. The UK tabloids froth about immigration and paint a picture of impending doom as billions descend on our shores. However, the 10 new countries have joined the EU and the flood turned out to be a trickle - now politicians are talking about the need to attract certain skills.

There was real social upheaval when the USSR changed its system - there are many who still hanker after the old days, not politicians (who by and large just changed hats and kept their jobs) but the pensioner and the war vets etc., people whose whole lives had been based around a specific culture and are now cut adrift (and are for the most part worse off under the new system).

Sorry the above is somewhat meandering it is uncommonly warm today and my brain appears to melting. In short, 99% of the world stays put because, despite whatever problems, they like their own land and culture. They also tend to take the hump if people walk in and try and shove something alternative down their throats.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by cpt_azad@15 May 2004 - 11:06
denial? i&#39;m not even muslim but i think i know idiotic statements when i see one, that&#39;s a pretty typical response coming from a true american citizen and i salute u for that, sure, muslims were like that 2-3 decades ago, and some still are, MOST aren&#39;t (UAE for example).
My statement came from direct observation of my Muslim collegues.

Their wives are trapped at home, their children are not allowed to interact with other children and they live in their own little community.

The people I am talking about are not radical Muslims, but ordinary citizens of Saudi Arabia.

I was merely saying that it is difficult to raise a child, particularly a girl, in a society that gives them a message that is so different than what their parents are telling them.

I think that all the different influences you are exposed to, in a free society (one in which daily prayers are not broadcast over public speakers) will cause children to sway from the path their parents want them to and this will cause severe family conflicts.

For example, several years ago I saw a TV documentary on Pakistani girls raised in Britain. Once grown they are expected to return to Pakistan for marriage and to live. Guess what, they don&#39;t want to go because they have tasted another life. What do their parents do? They hire people to kill or maim their own children. I remember vividly a brother telling the undercover hitman how to beat his sister and kill her. Surely these people are in the minority, I just wanted to give an extreme example to highlight my point.

Muslims will adapt to different societies over time, as you say, but the first step from Iran, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia will be very difficult to a man of faith and his children.

Your right, I am an American citizen and I am pretty typical. I make my decisions independently and I freely say what is on my mind. It&#39;s not so bad, really.

Since it appears that your ability to express yourself is restricted to "you&#39;re stupid", I think the STFU thread in the lounge would be more your speed.

And take that troller Biggles with you :lol:

Brainiac- Nice job making fun of achondroplastic dwarfs.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by hobbes@15 May 2004 - 08:32
Brainiac- Nice job making fun of achondroplastic dwarfs.
making fun? i was celebrating our enlightenment, damn it.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+16 May 2004 - 03:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC &#064; 16 May 2004 - 03:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@15 May 2004 - 08:32
Brainiac- Nice job making fun of achondroplastic dwarfs.
making fun? i was celebrating our enlightenment, damn it.[/b][/quote]
You should more focus on the enlightenment that women are humans, equal to men, not property and are not to be locked away and less on dancing dwarves and Ronald McDonald (Don&#39;t even get me started on Carrot-Top ;) ).

During the CNN special on Iraq a prominent Shia cleric interviewed stated clearly that men and women are not equal and that is not his opinion, but the word of God.

He and his tens of thousands of followers lead the very life that captncrunch thinks is passe. It&#39;s right there before my eyes, as I type this. Thousands spending an hour a day, listening to readings from the Koran, crowded into a doorless and windowless Mosque in near freezing temperatures. Their religion is their life, religion controls their government, quite the contrast to the Western philosophy.

This is why they do not flock to the West, culture shock.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2004 - 02:25
You should more focus on the enlightenment that women are humans, equal to men, not property and are not to be locked away and less on dancing dwarves and Ronald McDonald (Don&#39;t even get me started on Carrot-Top ;) ).

Much as i agree with this, its also an example of you stating our beliefs.. our "enlightenment".

Its not just the ME where women are 2nd class, indeed its probably the majority of the world population.

So saying that, its not upto us to force our beliefs on others,

Educate and preach, fair enough...go for it.

Forcing this belief is no different to forcing any other "Self Evident" belief... eg a particular religion.

Its only "Self Evident" to those of us that believe it.

[hobbes]

Rat,

In the US, these Muslims are free to treat their wives as they are taught. We don&#39;t force anything on them.

But they will enter into a society where their women are able to witness a different treatment of their gender.

If you grow up in a society and are taught to think a certain way, you are ignorant of your potential. This "potential" will be right there for every Muslim woman and particularly every Muslim child to witness. This is bound to be seen as a threat to the Muslim male.

Once "individual freedoms" are made visible and tangible, the limits of Muslim tradition will be pushed. Women will want what the American women have, the boys will want to test the limits of freedom. They will want to try alcohol.

When freedom of the individual is presented to the shackled, the revolution comes from within and is not imposed from the outside. It is called an epiphany.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2004 - 06:14
When freedom of the individual is presented to the shackled, the revolution comes from within and is not imposed from the outside. It is called an epiphany.
I think we are saying the same thing in different ways.

I cant remember who said this, but i believe it was an American President:

"A slave cannot be freed, save he do it himself. Nor can you enslave a free man; the very most you can do is kill him"

Wise words.

I cant offhand, think of one country that has had freedom/democracy forced upon it, that has remained stable. The change must come from within.

Likewise, no population will be happy with occupiers. The evidence for this comes from just about every "occupied" territory ever.

The best that i&#39;ve seen was West Germany, and here they had East Germany to look to to see how bad things could have been... and even here there was a strong movement to remove The Allies, it just didnt decend to violence often. Although they had there "resistance" fighters (Terrorists)...And these already knew about the benefits of Democracy.

Even if the world does not consider an area occupied, but the population of that does, violence against the occupiers will rear its head...just look at the Basques in Spain. No one accuses the Spanish Government of Human Rights abuses in recent times with regard to this, they&#39;ve been there a very long time, they vote in their own right in the Spanish Elections and are therefore part of the democratic process. There way of life would not change one way or the other...but a significant fraction of the area consider them "occupiers"

Imagine the feelings of the population then, where an outside force is trying to change your way of life. Where if a full democratic process were inacted the resultant Government would be very anti-american (the occupiers)..and so a puppet Government will be installed.

A puppet Government was the way Saddam Hussain started, so why should they believe anything said to them?

Because we said "We wont leave the job unfinished and leave you in the crap this time"?

Isnt that what the US said a Decade ago, when there was a rebellion and no help was forthcoming?

Didnt the US and UK say this to the Afgans a couple of years ago?

Whats happening there over 95% of the country now? They were better off under the Taliban....at least there was Law, even if tough.

Why should they believe things will get better this time?


I have to be honest here.

Im not religious at all, however if i was Iraqi I would be there with a Gun in my hand, fighting the invaders. And i believe in Freedom, Democracy etc... however i believe stronger in Self Determination.

Im sure if your Country was being Occupied by a hugely stronger force, that was changing your way of life and showing a hugely improved way of life...there would be resistance. The American People believe this, or all those TV shows showing American Resisitance to Alien Invaders wouldnt be so popular (eg Earth: Final Conflict)..... The brave resistance fighters not the cowardly terrorists are the heros...




Maybe bad examples maybe, but im sure you get my meaning. ;)



In the US, these Muslims are free to treat their wives as they are taught.&nbsp; We don&#39;t force anything on them.


Within the confines of US Law, which is as it should be.

If you go to a new country, its only right you abide by their Laws... If you break those Laws, then you should be prosecuted. If your Culture does not conform to those Laws, then tough...you should have went to a country who&#39;s Law does conform with your beliefs, or Lobby to change the Law in the same way the rest of the population does.

[ilw]

Shouldn&#39;t the title of this topic read &#39;from&#39; rather than &#39;to&#39; ? :blink:

[Biggles]

Hobbes

:o Me troll??? :lol:

I liked your last. I have never quite squared away the US love of the maverick with, say, declaring the Taliban were illegal combatants (or whatever the term).


I recall a movie (albeit fairly ghastly) called Red Dawn. What were the combatants in that movie? Patriotic heros or illegal combatants/terrorists?

There will always be a reaction against an invading force, even if their intentions are wholesome (are all our intentions wholesome?). In the case of Iraq and Afghanistan we need to establish security (it doesn&#39;t have to be perfect) and get out.

[hobbes]

Did you guys change the subject of the thread or what?

I answered the question as to why Muslims are not coming to the US. Rat, you and Biggles are on about a totally different topic- imposing democracy on Iraq.

A fine topic, but not really relevant to this thread or anything I have said.

Maybe the waters got muddy, let me clarify. When I talked about the enlightenment of freedom to Muslims, I was spefically talking about those who have decided to live in America and the subsequent family conflicts which might arise.

I was NOT talking about installing democracy and freedom in Iraq. That is a completely different issue.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2004 - 19:09
Did you guys change the subject of the thread or what?

I answered the question as to why Muslims are not coming to the US. Rat, you and Biggles are on about a totally different topic- imposing democracy on Iraq.

A fine topic, but not really relevant to this thread or anything I have said.

Maybe the waters got muddy, let me clarify. When I talked about the enlightenment of freedom to Muslims, I was spefically talking about those who have decided to live in America and the subsequent family conflicts which might arise.

I was NOT talking about installing democracy and freedom in Iraq. That is a completely different issue.
My bad..... but i did notice i was way off topic myself, and added a relevant part to my last post......

Sowwy....

[J'Pol]

Who is trying to force democracy on the people of Iraq (I know this is still off topic).

It is my understanding that the people of Iraq will decide what system of government or leadership they follow.

The initial leadership will certainly not be democratically elected, why do we assume that subsequent ones will be.



With regard to Muslim people living in America. Why not, Americans convert to that religion do they not. That being the case there is no difference between an American converting and a Muslim moving to America.

They are both allowed religious tolerance and they are both expected to follow the laws of the USA / State within which they choose to live.

[clunk1234567]

The muslims are not going to the US because we have social security in the UK.

[thewizeard]

....because they are already there, Neil..and according to some estimations; well.... read this


3. Muslims are about 20% of the world&#39;s population;
Christians, about 30%. &#40;The US Muslim population is
estimated between 5 and 8 million; US Jews between 5
and 6 million&#41;. The global Jewish population is
statistically quite small, so one can say the
Judeo-Christian-Islamic population is roughly half the
world&#39;s total. The consequences of a protracted
religious war, pitting Christians and Jews against
Muslims, are highly unpleasant to consider.

<s>Bron</s> Source:-http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Par.../ignorance.html (http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/America/ignorance.html)

Long time no see&#33;

Nigel.

Edit, sorry a bit of Dutch creeping in...

[Biggles]

Hobbes

I noticed but willfully ignored it (my humble apogolies :blink: )


I think what is being observed (to go back on track) is how cultural values move in quite a fluid way. The young Muslim growing up in the US or the UK will absorb some of the surrounding cultural norms and feel ill at ease with those of the old country and the older generation. This has happened with almost every ethnic group that has settled in the US and other countries. It is not so much that the new is better it is simply that it is home. We return to that inate conservatism that I talked about earlier. There is not so much a value judgement made by the Muslim girl expected to return to Pakistan to marry - it is simply that it is far more alien to her than her parents anticipated. It will be even more alien to the next generation and ultimately unthinkable to the fourth generation.

I recall a young black Liverpudlian lad talking about a proposal by the racist BNP to send blacks back to Africa. In a broad Liverpool accent he expressed utter horror - he pointed out that he knew nothing of jungles and was terrified of snakes and creepy crawlies and didn&#39;t like foreign food. He was, in effect, as British as they come.

[hobbes]

You are absolutely right Biggles.

Don&#39;t even get me started on the term Afro-Americans. They are Americans dammit, not Africans&#33;

For me, I am watching the Indians. Their parents want them to marry Indians via the old way, meanwhile their children are getting drunk and having sex with white boys.

Melting pot, indeed.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2004 - 18:56
You are absolutely right Biggles.

Don&#39;t even get me started on the term Afro-Americans. They are Americans dammit, not Africans&#33;

For me, I am watching the Indians. Their parents want them to marry Indians via the old way, meanwhile their children are getting drunk and having sex with white boys.

Melting pot, indeed.
I hate that African-American bullshit.

Afro....hell that&#39;s a damn hair style. :lol: :lol:

White people aren&#39;t European Americans.

Caucasians? White&#39;s are pretty far gone from the Caucas mountains.

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

;) Damn Honkeys.

[Arm]

My dad is Muslim(doesnt closely follow his religion :unsure:), from Iran and immigrated here to America. Irans education system was all gay thanks to it being under a dictatorship(thank you United States for ruining their democracy. :)) and his parents had money so they sent him and his brother and sister out of the country for school. First he stopped in England and lived there for a year and hated it so he came to the US. 2 out of the 3 siblings continue to live in the United States. ;) Not to say they agree with American politics but do live here. :01: Oh but he also came here almost 30 yars ago too if that makes any difference.

Fundamentalist Islams what hobbes so ignorantly described. You got fundamentalists who want to undue all progress and go right back into the middle ages in every religon. Christianitys got plenty of those kinda people in it. I like to call them assholes. B)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Arm@10 June 2004 - 02:49
My dad is Muslim(doesnt closely follow his religion :unsure:), from Iran and immigrated here to America. Irans education system was all gay thanks to it being under a dictatorship(thank you United States for ruining their democracy. :)) and his parents had money so they sent him and his brother and sister out of the country for school. First he stopped in England and lived there for a year and hated it so he came to the US. 2 out of the 3 siblings continue to live in the United States. ;) Not to say they agree with American politics but do live here. :01: Oh but he also came here almost 30 yars ago too if that makes any difference.

Fundamentalist Islams what hobbes so ignorantly described. You got fundamentalists who want to undue all progress and go right back into the middle ages in every religon. Christianitys got plenty of those kinda people in it. I like to call them assholes. B)
You just said that your dad doesn&#39;t closely follow his religion.

A religion is not something you dabble in, it is based on belief without proof. I was representing people who follow their faith.

Your father has basically rejected Islam, though keeping those principles he finds convenient.

[human_pet]

Let me ask you,why should I( a muslim) go to America.It&#39;s far from being the safest place in the world.I don&#39;t think I want to stay in a country where guns are legalized for any civilians to carry around and in a country where crime rates are VERy high and where the education systems are not as good as it is in Singapore,oh didn&#39;t I tell you I&#39;m from Singapore where it&#39;s MUCH more peacful than America ; where guns are not legal for normal civilians and where the education system is much more higher than it is in America,oh yeah,skin colour is not a big issue here,

That&#39;s the reasons why I would rather stay in Singapore,if I were to immigrate,I&#39;d rather go to Australia ...

[hobbes]

Originally posted by human_pet@10 June 2004 - 03:53
Let me ask you,why should I( a muslim) go to America.It&#39;s far from being the safest place in the world.I don&#39;t think I want to stay in a country where guns are legalized for any civilians to carry around and in a country where crime rates are VERy high and where the education systems are not as good as it is in Singapore,oh didn&#39;t I tell you I&#39;m from Singapore where it&#39;s MUCH more peacful than America ; where guns are not legal for normal civilians and where the education system is much more higher than it is in America,oh yeah,skin colour is not a big issue here,

That&#39;s the reasons why I would rather stay in Singapore,if I were to immigrate,I&#39;d rather go to Australia ...

You might take the time to read the entire thread.

We are are talking about how Americas freedom may be a threat to the Muslim way of life, specifically in regard to the role of women.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by hobbes@10 June 2004 - 02:45
A religion is not something you dabble in, it is based on belief without proof. I was representing people who follow their faith.
I think you&#39;re right there. That is why there are the two different terms "faith" and "religion".

You can ask someone, "Of what faith are you?", and they can say, "I follow the Christian faith, that is to say, I believe in one God and in following the teachings of Jesus. I&#39;m not really religious - I don&#39;t go to church and I don&#39;t wear a cross around my neck, but I consider myself a Christian."

Religion is following an established organisation based on a particular faith.

I don&#39;t think
Your father has basically rejected Islam, though keeping those principles he finds convenient. is particularly fair, as principals by definition are not "convenient". (I&#39;d like to be a millionaire, but I don&#39;t go out an rob a bank, which would be easy in comparison to earning the money, because my principals dictate that stealing in unfair and therefor, wrong).

[Arm]

Yeah he probably rejected Islam. I dont know if he kept any of the principals or not. He never talks about religion, prays and obviously never goes to church. Maybe he figures that hes in a lifestyle where being religious serves no purpose but just weighs him down. His mother and brother are both deeply religious but not fundamentalists though. :unsure:

And Americas economy is in the toilet and all the good high-tech jobs are disappearing. Going straight to India. ;) Why come to a country to work a nice McJob or spend 6 months looking for a job that pays 9 bucks an hour? :huh:

[{SHELL%SHOCKED}]

Originally posted by Neil__@15 May 2004 - 04:54
Why Dont Muslims Emigrate To America
Each year the Michigan community gets bigger: Annually, about 5,000 Arab immigrants enter the United States through Detroit
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/response/...105.muslim.html (http://www.npr.org/news/specials/response/home_front/features/2001/nov/muslim/011105.muslim.html)


looks like you topic is false and utterly wrong

OVERVIEW Muslim social scientists and researchers have spent a great deal of time trying to determine the number of Muslims in the United States. Most accept the estimate of from 5 million to 8 million. That is to say at least 5 million people in North America claim Islam as their religion and/or practice. What is represented in this report is based on estimates made in 1991, the World Almanac reports that Muslim in the United States number approximately 5,220,00. The total worldwide Muslim population is generally estimated at slightly more that 1 billion. David Barrett&#39;s publication, "International Bulletin of Missionary Research" cites a lower figure, 988,004,000.


An exact figure of Muslim population in the United States is very difficult to make. The figures presented here are based on available data.
http://www.islam101.com/history/population2_usa.html

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Arm@10 June 2004 - 07:04
Yeah he probably rejected Islam. I dont know if he kept any of the principals or not. He never talks about religion, prays and obviously never goes to church. Maybe he figures that hes in a lifestyle where being religious serves no purpose but just weighs him down. His mother and brother are both deeply religious but not fundamentalists though. :unsure:


Arm,

What is the nature of the relationship between your father and his mother and brother?

If they are true followers and your father has turned away from Allah, that makes him an infidel in their eyes. Islam claims that infidels should be killed. This is how my Suadi co-worker explained things to me.

I asked him if he viewed me as an infidel. He said, "No, you are just ignorant and I feel sorry that you do not know Allah. Infidels are people who know in their hearts that Allah is God but do not follow his word".

I would imagine your father being raised Muslim would qualify him as "knowing" Allah.

Just curious.

[Arm]

Well I live with my mother and my dad comes to visit sometimes. Hes hard to live with. I dont have that great of a relationship with him. He does come over and we do talk but it aint great.

He lives in St. Louis, his sister lives in Dallas and is married to an American man who I am pretty sure isnt Muslim. His mother lives in Iran, along with his brother and father. They do call each other and talk alot. Maybe about once a month of maybe more then that. It&#39;s not bad. B)

And about that "kill the infidels" stuff exists in all religions. It&#39;s not like the Christians highly tolerate other religions. No they go around either killing and converting everyone whos not Christian. They got plenty of holy wars too. :01:

I see it as both religions are both the same. They just both have assholes bastardizing the "word of God" to manipulate the people for their own beliefs and purposes.

[Alex H]

I see it as both religions are both the same. They just both have assholes bastardizing the "word of God" to manipulate the people for their own beliefs and purposes.
Well said Arm.

[Voetsek]

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world - It is the opium of the people.

Karl Marx

[Arm]

If you wanna be an uncreative dittohead and quote Karl Marx then at least properly quote him.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."

And yes all religion is bullshit. But Jesus preaching peace and love is different from holy rollers manipulating his heaivily distored words to free themself and enslave the people.

[aoyv73]

Originally posted by Voetsek@11 June 2004 - 10:40
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world - It is the opium of the people.

Karl Marx
Go look it up this is right

[aoyv73]

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/reli..._marx_opium.htm (http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/religion/blrel_marx_opium.htm)

[Arm]

Ah I heard a different quote or maybe it was just wrong. ;)

Now after reading more of that Karl Marx quote I understand that opium of the people meaning differently now. :o Another meaning.

[Voetsek]

No problems here