@lynx

[clocker]

Since we seem to be experiencing similar oddities with the temps in our watersystems I thought I'd share a new theory with you.

After sitting powered down overnight, Sprocket will boot and run for hours at a pretty low temp ( right now after 5 uninterrupted hours of up time my CPU temp is ( theoretically*) 25c).
Were I to shut her down for a half hour or so and then restart the temp would be reported as 33c or so.

I have been attributing this to a glitch in the software temp reporting, but a new explanation has occured to me.

I think that, starting from a cold state, my pump ( in it's reservoir) and radiator are capable of maintaining a good, low temp.
But turning the system off allows the pump, waterblock and radiator to heatsoak the water (raising it's temp) and upon restart my puny system cannot overcome this added load.
Apparently, the effectiveness of the watercooling is directly related to the difference in temp between the heat source (CPU) and the medium transferring the heat away ( the water).
By preheating the water I have lowered that delta value, thus the higher temps.

If I let the water in the reservoir cool completely again ( 4-5 hours) I'm good to go.

Just thought you might be interested.

*"theoretically" because I still question the accuracy of my readings, but for this explanation it is irrelevant

[tesco]

That is a good theory clocker, i would ahve never thought of that lol.

But if this post is realaly for Lynx only, you could have just PMed him... ;)

[clocker]

Well Ross you are probably correct, but the theory may apply to some other watercooler out there and I am still aggressively spamming to retrieve my lost fifth star.
By this time next week you'll hardly know I'm here.

[tesco]

Originally posted by clocker@30 June 2004 - 14:26
Well Ross you are probably correct, but the theory may apply to some other watercooler out there and I am still aggressively spamming to retrieve my lost fifth star.
By this time next week you'll hardly know I'm here.
your only 141 posts away :o

lucky, im still 1,153 posts away. :( after this post, 1,152...

[bigdawgfoxx]

Can you put icecubes somewhere in the system to cool it off? lolol

[clocker]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@30 June 2004 - 16:17
Can you put icecubes somewhere in the system to cool it off? lolol
I could, I suppose.

The simpler solution would be to just leave Sproket running.

[Virtualbody1234]

Originally posted by clocker@30 June 2004 - 19:51
The simpler solution would be to just leave Sproket running.
Sproket ?

Who's that ?

[clocker]

Ooops.

Sprocket and I have been taking a beating on another forum and it must have loosened a consonant.

All better now.

[kaiweiler]

Originally posted by clocker@30 June 2004 - 21:57
Ooops.

Sprocket and I have been taking a beating on another forum and it must have loosened a consonant.

All better now.
I have been folowing that closely, and for the record, I think your thoughts are correct and most of the arguements that "SureFoot" has come up with don't seem to be that valid. Although you have already done a great job of proving that so :)
Still no excuse to spell your one true loves name wrong! :rolleyes:

[zapjb]

I agree w ur theory clocker. And f it I don't think I'll ever get my fn 5th star back. Like fn 2500 posts to go. F!

[clocker]

Originally posted by kaiweiler@30 June 2004 - 19:08

Still no excuse to spell your one true loves name wrong! :rolleyes:
True.

Believe me, she will make me pay.

[tesco]

What forum were you arguing on? can u give a link to the thread?

[kaiweiler]

Originally posted by ROSSCO_2004@30 June 2004 - 22:31
What forum were you arguing on? can u give a link to the thread?
He may send it through PM
I'm not entirely sure he would want to expose an open arguement. Ask him via PM ;)
I wold link you to it, but I'm not sure how touchy he is on the subject

[lynx]

A nice theory and it may well be true in your case, but I've got over a gallon of coolant with a true refrigeration plant so I doubt that would apply to me.

The funny temp observations started well before I delved into water cooling, and only applied to my mobo temps. Having said that, my cpu temps were usually above the threshold for this strange activity so it could have applied to the cpu temps too.

[clocker]

Oh.
I forgot about your refridgeration.

Oh well, at least you have a thread named for you now, even if it is irrelevant.


I am not at all touchy about my (apparent) drubbing in the other forum.
For any who are interested here it is. (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=307965)

Keep in mind, despite the attempts to twist my point, I never said "Less is better" I simply disagree with the statement "Bigger is better, ALWAYS".

[Tormentor]

I have a question about water cooling, why use water? Isnt there more heat conductive liquids then water?

[tesco]

Originally posted by Tormentor@30 June 2004 - 23:41
I have a question about water cooling, why use water? Isnt there more heat conductive liquids then water?
water cooling doesn't meann water is in teh pipes, lol. it is some sorta collant like in cars...sometimes it IS the coolant in cars. ;)

rarely, or maybe never, is whatever used in water cooling systems lol.

[clocker]

Now Ross, that's simply not true.
Water ( preferably distilled) is the fluid of choice.
Additives to control bacterial&algae growth are used, as is antifreeze and other things.
But it is mostly water.

[tesco]

Originally posted by clocker@30 June 2004 - 23:51
Now Ross, that's simply not true.
Water ( preferably distilled) is the fluid of choice.
Additives to control bacterial&algae growth are used, as is antifreeze and other things.
But it is mostly water.
really? I asked on another forum once a long time ago if water is used and what they told me is exactly what i posted...

:angry: dumb forum lol.

[clocker]

This may come as a shock to you.
Brace yourself.

Not everything you read on the internet is true. :(

[Tormentor]

So wich cools better? Radiator coolent or distilled water?

[tesco]

Originally posted by clocker@1 July 2004 - 00:00
This may come as a shock to you.
Brace yourself.

Not everything you read on the internet is true. :(
so...you could be lying now? how do i know that your telling truth about water cooling? maybe it was teh other forum that's right, and every other forum (atleast this one) wrong?

[clocker]

Originally posted by Tormentor@30 June 2004 - 22:07
So wich cools better? Radiator coolent or distilled water?
Radiator coolant IS distilled water with antifreeze added.
In a car the ratio is 50/50.
Since our pcs aren't subject to the temperature extremes that our cars are the ratio is about 95/5.
The antifreeze just keeps crap from growing in the water.
You can use all sorts of other stuff instead of antifreeze to do the same thing.


so...you could be lying now? how do i know that your telling truth about water cooling?
Yup.
You don't.

Life's a bitch.

[Super Dude]

Originally posted by clocker@1 July 2004 - 05:00
This may come as a shock to you.
Brace yourself.

Not everything you read on the internet is true. :(

so...you could be lying now? how do i know that your telling truth about water cooling?

Yup.
You don't.

Life's a bitch.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tormentor]

Originally posted by clocker+30 June 2004 - 22:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 30 June 2004 - 22:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tormentor@30 June 2004 - 22:07
So wich cools better? Radiator coolent or distilled water?
Radiator coolant IS distilled water with antifreeze added.
In a car the ratio is 50/50.
Since our pcs aren&#39;t subject to the temperature extremes that our cars are the ratio is about 95/5.
The antifreeze just keeps crap from growing in the water.
You can use all sorts of other stuff instead of antifreeze to do the same thing.


so...you could be lying now? how do i know that your telling truth about water cooling?
Yup.
You don&#39;t.

Life&#39;s a bitch. [/b][/quote]
sorry for being a asshole, but can you put that in idiot terms? Please.

[tesco]

Originally posted by Tormentor+1 July 2004 - 00:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tormentor @ 1 July 2004 - 00:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by clocker@30 June 2004 - 22:21
<!--QuoteBegin-Tormentor@30 June 2004 - 22:07
So wich cools better? Radiator coolent or distilled water?
Radiator coolant IS distilled water with antifreeze added.
In a car the ratio is 50/50.
Since our pcs aren&#39;t subject to the temperature extremes that our cars are the ratio is about 95/5.
The antifreeze just keeps crap from growing in the water.
You can use all sorts of other stuff instead of antifreeze to do the same thing.


so...you could be lying now? how do i know that your telling truth about water cooling?
Yup.
You don&#39;t.

Life&#39;s a bitch.
sorry for being a asshole, but can you put that in idiot terms? Please. [/b][/quote]
In a car they use half radiator fluid, half water. exactly half of each.

in a computer, they aparantly use 5%radiator fluid, 95% water. ;)

The antifreeze in a computer line keeps crap from growing in water (algae?).

the antifreeze in a car helps teh water from (i think) boiling and (for sure) freezing.

[clocker]

Originally posted by ROSSCO_2004@30 June 2004 - 22:37


the antifreeze in a car helps teh water from (i think) boiling and (for sure) freezing.
And ( very importantly these days) the antifreeze also contains anti-corrosives that retards the corrosion you get from the action of water and dissimilar metals ( cast iron in the engine block and aluminum in the radiator).

[tesco]

Originally posted by clocker+1 July 2004 - 00:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 1 July 2004 - 00:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ROSSCO_2004@30 June 2004 - 22:37


the antifreeze in a car helps teh water from (i think) boiling and (for sure) freezing.
And ( very importantly these days) the antifreeze also contains anti-corrosives that retards the corrosion you get from the action of water and dissimilar metals ( cast iron in the engine block and aluminum in the radiator). [/b][/quote]
so it does prevent boiling? i wasn&#39;t sure since it is in a sealed environment. :unsure:

[lynx]

Actually, it&#39;s unusual for the coolant mixture to be 50/50 because it is not necessary in most places, usually it will be 75/25 (water/antifreeze) or 67/33 to keep costs down. It works because it is harder for the water to freeze with things dissolved in it.

A 50/50 mix is not always the best ratio of solvent/solute, it just happens to be for water/antifreeze. Once you go past 50/50 the freezing point of the mixture starts to rise, because it is now antifreeze with water as the solute.

At the other end of the scale the effect is not so pronounced, and it only raises the boiling point by a few degrees. I&#39;ve got a feeling that the optimum mixture is about 60/40, but the difference in boiling point over the range 75/25 to 50/50 is so small as to be irrelevant.

This is true.

All of it.

Maybe. :P

Btw, my system doesn&#39;t contain distilled water or antifreeze, simply boiled water, an anti-fungal product and a few drops of yellow ink (Epson). I wonder if cyan would have been better. :unsure:

The main reason for using distilled water is to remove any lime which could fur up your system, or chlorine which attack the metal components. But if you boil the water in a kettle for a few minutes, lime of concentrations which could harm your system will be deposited in the kettle and any chlorine will be driven off.

[lynx]

@clocker, I&#39;ve just read the thread on OCF, perhaps I can throw a few comments in? I think you&#39;ll find some parts back your case, others contradict it.

I&#39;m not going to get into thermodynamics, I think all parties are agreed on that part.

You are certainly right that removing the thermostat in an engine will often cause it to run hotter, and also that race engines have restrictors, but the reasons are not the same.

Firstly race engines, the reason for different sized restrictors is to get the temp "just right". Piston ring gap in race engines is critical to engine efficiency. Too little flow and the engine will overheat, the gap closes and the rings will sieze on the cylinder wall, too much flow and the engine will be overcooled, the gap opens up and you lose too much cylinder pressure for it to run at peak efficiency. However, there is also something of the effect described below.

Secondly, the thermostat in a non-race engine. Obviously the primary function of the thermostat is to directly control water temp by opening and closing a valve. But flow restriction is also important. At the correct speed, water flows all round the engine, but if water flow is too high, it will take a path as directly as possible from the inlet to the outlet. The flow of water around the engine actually drops and the engine temp rises.

So how does that apply to water cooling your computer? Clearly there is no &#39;race engine restrictor&#39; benefit here, we want the temps to be as low as possible. But there may be a point where high flow rates cause parts of the system to receive little or no water movement. However, a lot of this is down to water block and radiator design and I think it is impossible to generalise one way or the other.

I wonder how many more ex-racers frequent forums such as this? :rolleyes:

[clocker]

Lynx,
Thanks for taking the time to read the thread and reply.

I guess I did a poor job of explaining myself in that thread.
The race car flow restrictor example was never intended as a direct comparison to PC watercooling.

The original question " How big is too big" was answered (paraphrase) "There is no such thing as too big...bigger is always better".
This struck me as ludicrous from a purely practical standpoint.
Unfortunately, we quickly got sidetracted into "blind &#39;em with bullshit" theoretical discussion involving charts, textbook copy/paste and ( for some reason still unknown to me) electrical formulae.

I would never have even entered the fray there except I grew tired of seeing people whose posted performance numbers are worse than mine advise others about how to replicate their substandard results.

Did it not strike you as odd that none of the "bigger is better" advocates ever called for my temps to compare with theirs?
I kept waiting and was ready to do so, but apparently, knowing the Laws of Thermodynamics is more important than cooling your PC.

I have enjoyed my time in the normal "Cooling" section of the OC forums and hoped to expand into the watercooling section also, but it&#39;s a closed club and I don&#39;t think my invitation is in the mail.