What's Going On With Kazaa Lately

[Broken]

After thinking about people having troubles with low member counts on the Kazaa Lite p2p client, something in my mind just clicked. I remeber that there was a plan by the people who make Kazaa to weed out K-lite users, by making older versions of the program incompatible with newer ones. In other words, the last offical build of K-lite was built upon the (I only believe, it maybe even an earlier built) 2.4 Kazaa regular client.

To make it short, I believe that K-lite (v 2.4) supernodes can no longer connect to other "regular" Kazaa supernodes. However, normal nodes regardless of the version of Kazaa they are running can still connect to any supernode.

For example, if you start K-lite right now, you will only see some 80 thousand users online (you are connected to a K-lite based supernode). However, if you jump supernodes a few times you will notice the user count will eventually raise to about 2.4 Million (you are connected to a regular Kazaa supernode).

This will result in a very fargmented network. To what benefit I do not know, but I don't think it's going to be good.



All of the above is just a theroy.....
But, I'd like to think it is an educated one.

[RealitY]

Sound educated and perhaps that has finally happened...

[Broken]

*bump*

[Ariel_001]

if the means that we have own "k-lite" network maybe this is a good thing. No more fakes from noobs sharing them or anything.

[Digital Nirvana]

but if you search for a file and look at the user(s) who have it you still see "defaultuser@KaZaA" and such...unless those are KaZaA users using a version at or below 2.4 of Kazaa Media Desktop... ;)

[Broken]

That was the same thought many had when Sharman first thought of trying to weed out k-lite users by not alowing them to connect with regualar Kazaa users. That was over a year ago, when this was still the K-Lite Forum.

Given the current situation, K-lite users could choose to connect to the main network by jumping supernodes. However, regular Kazaa users, not being able to jump supernodes could not connect to the K-lite network of supernodes.

However, I think it makes K-lite users a easier to find target for the powers that be.


*If I had to guess I would think that there is some script in the Kazaa 2.6 software that keeps them from connecting to supernodes running older versions of the Kazaa software after a certain date. It's the only reason I can think of why this is a all of the sudden thing.*

[hungrylilboy]

except the latest version of k-lite uses 2.6....

[Broken]

Originally posted by hungrylilboy@12 July 2004 - 19:35
except the latest version of k-lite uses 2.6....
I don't think those users are having problems.


Also, I download the latest offical version of Kazaa from thier site and had no problem with user count.

I believe this, whatever is happening, is only happening to users of the 2.4.X version or older versions of the kazaa software.

[hungrylilboy]

Originally posted by Broken+12 July 2004 - 19:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Broken @ 12 July 2004 - 19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hungrylilboy@12 July 2004 - 19:35
except the latest version of k-lite uses 2.6....
I don&#39;t think those users are having problems.


Also, I download the latest offical version of Kazaa from thier site and had no problem with user count. [/b][/quote]
err so whats the prob then? if people kept up to date they wouldnt be moaning...

[Broken]

just intersting to see the creation of a sub-network.

[hungrylilboy]

to be honest no its not interesting.
1)Kazaa/Fast Track is full of viruses, fakes and corrupted files
2)User base is indeed dropping as users move to other networks
3)If people cant be bothered to ensure they have the latest build of something, when it is very very easy to find, then its their own fault

[Digital Nirvana]

Originally posted by hungrylilboy@12 July 2004 - 19:52
to be honest no its not interesting.
1)Kazaa/Fast Track is full of viruses, fakes and corrupted files
2)User base is indeed dropping as users move to other networks
3)If people cant be bothered to ensure they have the latest build of something, when it is very very easy to find, then its their own fault
actually it is interesting...if this therory is correct then that means that a new "sub network" is taking shape, and it only consists of k++ users or people using 2.4.X or older version of KaZaA Media Desktop...which means there would be considerably less fakes and viruses, because the majority probally comes from KMD users.

[Vargas]

well i have my own theory on whats happening, but i don&#39;t think it&#39;s what youre suggesting because:
i run an open source client (kceasy) in debug mode and today i was connected to a klite v2.0.2 supernode (i could tell because it identified it&#39;s network name as k-lite.tk instead of the standard KaZaA) and the usernumbers it send me were in the 2 million amount.
and later when i was connected to another supernode the usernumbers it sent me went from the 60,000-90,000 range for a about a ½ hour, then it jumped to the 2 million range for a while, then it went back to the 60,000-90,000 range all without changing supernodes

i think it might be caused by sharman updating/upgrading, or having problems with, the supernodes that handle the total user numbers. and when your supernode cant connect to them it will show the users on your current supernode and all inter connected supernodes to that one. but thats just a theory :P

i don&#39;t think it&#39;s as much a seprate network, but more like a island in the network.
it used to happen alot back when kazaa was in beta, and had less then 30,000 users.

does anyone have a 1.XX version of kazaa that still connects?

[hungrylilboy]

Originally posted by Vargas@12 July 2004 - 21:44
well i have my own theory on whats happening, but i don&#39;t think it&#39;s what youre suggesting because:
i run an open source client (kceasy) in debug mode and today i was connected to a klite v2.0.2 supernode (i could tell because it identified it&#39;s network name as k-lite.tk instead of the standard KaZaA) and the usernumbers it send me were in the 2 million amount.
and later when i was connected to another supernode the usernumbers it sent me went from the 60,000-90,000 range for a about a ½ hour, then it jumped to the 2 million range for a while, then it went back to the 60,000-90,000 range all without changing supernodes

i think it might be caused by sharman updating/upgrading, or having problems with, the supernodes that handle the total user numbers. and when your supernode cant connect to them it will show the users on your current supernode and all inter connected supernodes to that one. but thats just a theory :P

i don&#39;t think it&#39;s as much a seprate network, but more like a island in the network.
it used to happen alot back when kazaa was in beta, and had less then 30,000 users.

does anyone have a 1.XX version of kazaa that still connects?
agree more so with this.

@Digital Nirvana. Cant the riaa use k-lite then? Dont u think they would rather have an adware free pc to? ;) And sorry to say this but I doubt that the majority of viruses come from KMD users...these are your general public, people sharing viruses are the script kiddies, the people in the know, who most def will not be running KMD..
And if they are running an old version of k-lite then they are stupid for not upgrading...yup a subnetwork of old users...great&#33;

[pol]

no more flaming please guys

removed the &#39;off topic&#39; replies..

[erRor67]

Only one problem..... K-lite (which is using kmd2.6) also has this problem of getting low #s, so it isnt just old verions of kazaa. And anotherthing, if old verions of kazaa dont connect now, where are all the old supernodes ommng from?

[Saraband]

"For example, if you start K-lite right now, you will only see some 80 thousand users online (you are connected to a K-lite based supernode). However, if you jump supernodes a few times you will notice the user count will eventually raise to about 2.4 Million (you are connected to a regular Kazaa supernode)."

exactly whatz been happening to me, using klr 0075

[Broken]

This was just a theroy, and it has been disproven by myself also...
Using the regular "offical" Kazza version, I have seen user rangers from about 2.5 million to just a few thousand. Meaning that if it is happening with the offical version, it is not the creation of a seprate network of just K-Lite users. :(
Something that would have been fairly interesting to see.

From reading in the Diet K forum, I have also read that the problems maybe caused by insufficient number of supernodes for the network to handle all the regular nodes. I think this is a rather believable scenario considering the decrepit condition of the network.

[Digital Nirvana]

Originally posted by Broken@13 July 2004 - 05:32
This was just a theroy, and it has been disproven by myself also...
Using the regular "offical" Kazza version, I have seen user rangers from about 2.5 million to just a few thousand. Meaning that if it is happening with the offical version, it is not the creation of a seprate network of just K-Lite users. :(
Something that would have been fairly interesting to see.


you just contradicted what you said earlier-


I download the latest offical version of Kazaa from thier site and had no problem with user count.

;) wtf

~Digital Nirvana

[Broken]

Sorry digital nirvana.
I only started it and got the count, I didn&#39;t really play with it. I didn&#39;t see the need, I thought I was onto what was going down. After continued testing after work, I realized that I was having the same problems has with 2.4.X..

So, I decided to post say my theory was incorrect. I felt I owed posting so to the board.

[Digital Nirvana]

Originally posted by Broken@13 July 2004 - 05:52
Sorry digital nirvana.
I only started it and got the count, I didn&#39;t really play with it. I didn&#39;t see the need, I thought I was onto what was going down.
I see :)

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Broken@13 July 2004 - 00:32
From reading in the Diet K forum, I have also read that the problems maybe caused by insufficient number of supernodes for the network to handle all the regular nodes. I think this is a rather believable scenario considering the decrepit condition of the network.
This makes sense, the people who are less likely to upgrade to newer versions of Kazaa (lite or otherwise) are probably on dial-up and Win 9x/ME. They CAN&#39;T be supernodes.

But the people who are on broadband are probably running Kazaa Lite less and less. So of those that can be supernodes, there are fewer and fewer of them as a ratio of them to dial-up users.

Once some threshhold has been reached (probably before it reaches 1 supernode per 100 dial-up users), it all breaks down craptacularly.

This could occur even if there&#39;s MILLIONS of total users&#33;

Right now, there&#39;s probably just portions that are overloaded and cannot find enough supernodes. Imagine what happens when the whole network gets that way.

POOF&#33; Gone&#33;
Bet the makers of Kazaa didn&#39;t see THAT coming&#33;

[Autumn Fox]

If this whole thing is due to lack of SuperNodes (SN), - and this is the only loggical thing as for now - we are also guilty of the current state of FT. As K++ has the option to not to be a SuperNode, many K++ users that might be a SNs enabled it and thus decresed the number of SNs. 2.6 also has this option.
In my opinion the whole network will not go down but will brake down as CCCP (Soviet Union) into small ovrloaded parts that will eventually reach the state of dynamic balance. (More users will overload SNs so that users will not be able connect, so there will be less users thus a small network will be operational)

[Digital Nirvana]

Originally posted by Switeck@13 July 2004 - 15:25
This makes sense, the people who are less likely to upgrade to newer versions of Kazaa (lite or otherwise) are probably on dial-up and Win 9x/ME. They CAN&#39;T be supernodes.

But the people who are on broadband are probably running Kazaa Lite less and less. So of those that can be supernodes, there are fewer and fewer of them as a ratio of them to dial-up users.

Just curious, where did you pull that out of the air? i have broadband and xp and still (occasionally) use k++2.4.3 (updated tools manually though)..The one simple reason of why I havent upgraded to Klite 2.6, is because its still a beta and I tried it once, and just plain did not like it ;)

[guit_steel]

Originally posted by hungrylilboy@12 July 2004 - 13:52
to be honest no its not interesting.
1)Kazaa/Fast Track is full of viruses, fakes and corrupted files
2)User base is indeed dropping as users move to other networks
3)If people cant be bothered to ensure they have the latest build of something, when it is very very easy to find, then its their own fault
Ditto. :beerchug:

FT is dying b/c what was once 1st class is now 3rd class. Most folk have simply moved on. Accept it or complain, your choice. :lol:

Thought I&#39;d edit and add this from Slyck:

July 7, 2004 - 22:00

Network Users
FastTrack 2,737,390
eDonkey 2,127,859
Overnet 630,784
Warez 562,657
Gnutella 365,472
MP2P 267,580
DirectConnect 201,755
Filetopia 3,526
iMesh 0

eDonkey/Overnet Rapidly Approaching FastTrack (http://slyck.com/news.php?story=477)
FastTrack (Kazaa) Continues its Slide (http://slyck.com/news.php?story=492)
Does Kazaa matter? (http://news.com.com/Does+Kazaa+matter%3F/2100-1027_3-5253431.html?part=rss&tag=5253431&subj=news.1027.5)

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Digital Nirvana@13 July 2004 - 11:56
Just curious, where did you pull that out of the air? i have broadband and xp and still (occasionally) use k++2.4.3 (updated tools manually though)..
I use BearShare, it connects to the Gnutella network which is rather similar to the fasttrack network.
Fasttrack network has Supernodes and Nodes.
Gnutella network has UltraPeers and Leaves.
(Regular Peers were all there were in the earlier version.)

Both leaves and nodes tend to be the &#39;slower&#39; or firewalled users.
Supernodes and UltraPeers *HAVE* to be unfirewalled broadband connections -- and not your typical run-of-the-mill broadband connections either, or they will tend to be crash-happy due to occassional network spikes/bursts. They also have to be running Win 2k or later. Win 9x/ME cannot handle 100&#39;s of connections at once.

BearShare has running statistics for how its v4.3.0 and later versions are doing on the Gnutella network. (these stats map ONLY BearShare versions 4.3.0 and later&#33;)
http://www.bearshare.com/stats/

Back around January to April of this year, BearShare&#39;s numbers grew so rapidly that the number of UltraPeers found could not support them all. See the bottom graph on this page:
http://www.bearshare.com/stats/totalsize.html

People were reporting being unable to connect to the network -- even though they were trying for HOURS straight. They were attempting to connect to UltraPeers, but out of the 100&#39;s found they were all full.

Jan-24-2004:
b32: Over 60 seconds to get 1 Ultrapeer
http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=...ghlight=connect (http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=26544&highlight=connect)

Request: raise ultrapeer requirements
http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=...light=promotion (http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=26506&highlight=promotion)

[Vargas]

as a side note to all the chicken littles on here and on slyck.com (the sky is falling):
my kazaa lite v1.7.2 still connects to the 2 million plus userbase. :smilie4:

[Broken]

Nice to know that you never had any problems with your Kazaa program.

I hope the sky does fall in on the Kazaa network. Then eveyone would be forced to move on to bigger a better things. To say the least, I am excited to stand by a watch it happen.

:)

[Snee]

Originally posted by Switeck+14 July 2004 - 20:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Switeck @ 14 July 2004 - 20:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Digital Nirvana@13 July 2004 - 11:56
Just curious, where did you pull that out of the air? i have broadband and xp and still (occasionally) use k++2.4.3 (updated tools manually though)..
I use BearShare, it connects to the Gnutella network which is rather similar to the fasttrack network.
Fasttrack network has Supernodes and Nodes.
Gnutella network has UltraPeers and Leaves.
(Regular Peers were all there were in the earlier version.)

Both leaves and nodes tend to be the &#39;slower&#39; or firewalled users.
Supernodes and UltraPeers *HAVE* to be unfirewalled broadband connections -- and not your typical run-of-the-mill broadband connections either, or they will tend to be crash-happy due to occassional network spikes/bursts. They also have to be running Win 2k or later. Win 9x/ME cannot handle 100&#39;s of connections at once.

BearShare has running statistics for how its v4.3.0 and later versions are doing on the Gnutella network. (these stats map ONLY BearShare versions 4.3.0 and later&#33;)
http://www.bearshare.com/stats/

Back around January to April of this year, BearShare&#39;s numbers grew so rapidly that the number of UltraPeers found could not support them all. See the bottom graph on this page:
http://www.bearshare.com/stats/totalsize.html

People were reporting being unable to connect to the network -- even though they were trying for HOURS straight. They were attempting to connect to UltraPeers, but out of the 100&#39;s found they were all full.

Jan-24-2004:
b32: Over 60 seconds to get 1 Ultrapeer
http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=...ghlight=connect (http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=26544&highlight=connect)

Request: raise ultrapeer requirements
http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=...light=promotion (http://www.bearshare.net/showthread.php?t=26506&highlight=promotion) [/b][/quote]
Bearshare installs "Onflow" and "Savenow" if you didn&#39;t know, it&#39;s adware or spyware, can&#39;t remember which, better remove that, if it still works without them.

[Digital Nirvana]

Get BearShare Lite (http://www.bearshare.com/lite/).

~Digital Nirvana

[Switeck]

Originally posted by SnnY@15 July 2004 - 09:52
Bearshare installs "Onflow" and "Savenow" if you didn&#39;t know, it&#39;s adware or spyware, can&#39;t remember which, better remove that, if it still works without them.
Yes, the regular BearShare "adware supported" comes with that -- but you can easily remove those even before the 1st reboot using the uninstallers that come with them. (You may have to find them in their folders off the C:&#092;Program Files folder though.)

The BearShare betas don&#39;t include any of the adware/spyware junk, (which explains why they&#39;re about 1/2 MB smaller) although they expire after 2 weeks use... but if you&#39;re always running one of the latest 5 versions of BearShare betas, it&#39;ll never expire. :)

Gnutella network performance is almost the same whether you use Limewire, BearShare, or Shareaza... although Shareaza has minor connection issues with BearShare and Limewire right now. That&#39;ll probably be cleared up shortly as Shareaza&#39;s now open source and the Gnutella Developer&#39;s Forum (they argue about what Gnutella features and compatibilites are) is actually turning out new and USEFUL developements to add to Gnutella.

One I&#39;m REALLY hoping for is a currently only an experimental way for 2 firewalled behind-router broadband connections to DIRECTLY upload and download from each other after being &#39;tricked&#39; into connecting via a 3rd party and using UDP packets which have slightly less overheads than TCP packets.

A varient of that may even allow the downloader to NOT know what the ip address of the uploader is... they&#39;re just getting a file from &#39;somewhere&#39;. :) The 3rd party which establishes the connection would know who both uploader and downloader are -- but not exactly what they&#39;re sharing, unless the connection was made by file hash directly instead of file KEYWORD hash. (Hashing a keyword can result in many keywords having the same value for purposes of determining a &#39;match&#39;.)

Don&#39;t expect firewalled UDP transfers anytime soon though, it&#39;s anywhere from 3 months to 6 months before the FIRST Gnutella client supports bleeding-edge features. :(

But if it works, Limewire will certainly have it first as they are the ones doing this research&#33;

[rimmsy]

Originally posted by hungrylilboy@12 July 2004 - 19:52
to be honest I am gay.
1)Kazaa/Fast Track is full of viruses, fakes and corrupted files
2)User base is indeed dropping as users move to other networks
3)If people cant be bothered to ensure they have the latest build of something, when it is very very easy to find, then its their own fault
you found it interesting enough to post on the thread didnt you&#33;

anyway i think it was interesting, and i think you may be onto something as well.