Adapter Question

[sampson]

I'm going to use an LCD 19" monitor as a TV in my bedroom. Is this possible? It has s video connections on the back. If so, I can get an adapter thats coaxial(from the wall) to s video right? (For cable TV)

[tesco]

Originally posted by sampson@13 July 2004 - 01:37
I'm going to use an LCD 19" monitor as a TV in my bedroom. Is this possible? It has s video connections on the back. If so, I can get an adapter thats coaxial(from the wall) to s video right? (For cable TV)
The monitor can't tune a signal from your cable wire.
You would need to use a vcr with svideo output, or some other type of receiver\digibox thing with svideo output.

Best way, which i recomend you do, is use a tv tuner in your computer.

[sampson]

Best way, which i recommend you do, is use a tv tuner in your computer.

The monitor won't be hooked up to a pc at all.



The monitor can't tune a signal from your cable wire.
You would need to use a vcr with svideo output, or some other type of receiver\digibox thing with svideo output.

Any other suggestions? My VCR doesn't have s-video hookups. What about a cable box?(cable box is a last resort since it's $35/month extra)

[lynx]

Get a tv instead. <_<

[Snee]

There&#39;s some hookeup from joytech I think that lets you play playstation using a monitor, I think that works with tv too.

Don&#39;t know if they still carry the product tho&#39;, you might be able to find it at an EB store or so.

[sampson]

Originally posted by lynx@13 July 2004 - 04:27
Get a tv instead. <_<
I thought about that but I figured there was at least some way to use this thing as a tv that would be cheaper than buying a whole new tv set. Maybe I should sell it to buy a tv. I would still rather use what I have cause I can mount it on the wall and save space in my room. *In other words, forget about this reply altogether <_< *

[tesco]

yes a cable box will work. as long as it has svideo out. ;)

[SingaBoiy]

You wouldnt have any sound.

[lynx]

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 18:14
You wouldnt have any sound.
Well spotted, that man.

Except of course with my solution. :lol:

[SingaBoiy]

You could pick up a cheap vcr that has s-video out. Then with the audio out (white and red cables), have them go into a reciever. Then you could have a nice sound system.

[lynx]

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 19:32
You could pick up a cheap vcr that has s-video out. Then with the audio out (white and red cables), have them go into a reciever. Then you could have a nice sound system.
Probably about &#036;50 at Walmart?

[Livy]

sell ti and get an lcd tv, less hassle and still slimline.

[sampson]

I had thought about the sound thing and found this (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=313-1935&c=us&l=en&cs=19&category_id=4009&page=external). I&#39;d like to test it somewhere and hear the loudness and sound quality though.

[muchspl2]

Originally posted by lynx+13 July 2004 - 14:44--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 13 July 2004 - 14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 19:32
You could pick up a cheap&nbsp; vcr that has s-video out. Then with the audio out (white and red cables), have them go into a reciever. Then you could have a nice sound system.
Probably about &#036;50 at Walmart? [/b][/quote]
negitive
svid vcrs are expenseive, mine 2 jvc&#39;s were over 200.00 :/
good luck finding anything new under 100.00

[tesco]

Originally posted by muchspl2+13 July 2004 - 18:02--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 @ 13 July 2004 - 18:02)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by lynx@13 July 2004 - 14:44
<!--QuoteBegin-SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 19:32
You could pick up a cheap&nbsp; vcr that has s-video out. Then with the audio out (white and red cables), have them go into a reciever. Then you could have a nice sound system.
Probably about &#036;50 at Walmart?
negitive
svid vcrs are expenseive, mine 2 jvc&#39;s were over 200.00 :/
good luck finding anything new under 100.00 [/b][/quote]
Who buys VCR&#39;s these days. :lol:
especially for 200. :blink:

Those dell speakers are probably so shitey. Any pair of 20 dollar regular computer speakers would be better.

[sampson]

What about this. Run the cable(coax) from the wall to the VCR &#39;in&#39;. Then from VCR out, connect an adapter (coax to s-video) to the monitor? Then use an identical adapter for going from the monitor to the VCR.

[muchspl2]

patching together a bunch of separate electronics will work, but you will lose picture quality and waist electricity
I suggest you get one of these http://resellerratings.dealtime.com/xDN-Mi...a_CT1~CR-1~DW-0 (http://resellerratings.dealtime.com/xDN-Miscellaneous-Sima_CT1~CR-1~DW-0)
will do exactly what you want and as a plus you can "back up" tapes and DVDs
(kills macro vision)

[SingaBoiy]

I think this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1082741915351&skuId=6628937&productCategoryId=cat03023&type=product) is what you&#39;re looking for.

Didnt see any stores that sold vcr&#39;s with s-video out. Except of course that one above. Ill keep looking though.

[sampson]

I suggest you get one of these http://resellerratings.dealtime.com/xDN-Mi...a_CT1~CR-1~DW-0

That doesn&#39;t have any coax to s-video converters. The conversion is the main problem.


will do exactly what you want and as a plus you can "back up" tapes and DVDs
(kills macro vision)

Backups won&#39;t matter. The monitor won&#39;t even be connected to a pc.

[sampson]

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 17:29
I think this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1082741915351&skuId=6628937&productCategoryId=cat03023&type=product) is what you&#39;re looking for.

Didnt see any stores that sold vcr&#39;s with s-video out. Except of course that one above. Ill keep looking though.
:lol: :lol: :lol:









































<_< <_< <_< That thing is &#036;800. I&#39;m looking for an &#036;8 converter type thingy

[tesco]

Yes an rca to svideo adaptor works fine.

Connect the coxial wire into your vcr, the vcr&#39;s line out (rca) copnnects to the adaptor by an rca wire, then plug the svideo cable into the adaptor and into the monitor.
Seems kinda complicated, especially since you still gotta find a sound source.
(btw, the speakers plug into the vcr&#39;s line-out for sound)

[sampson]

the vcr&#39;s line out (rca) copnnects to the adaptor by an rca wire



RCA jacks are the least of my worries. Coaxial : s-video is the problem at hand.

[tesco]

Originally posted by sampson@13 July 2004 - 19:11

the vcr&#39;s line out (rca) copnnects to the adaptor by an rca wire



RCA jacks are the least of my worries. Coaxial : s-video is the problem at hand.
I told you what to do...
coax to any regular vcr, could buy one for 20bucks, then the lineout connects to adaptor then adaptor to svideo on your monitor....
the vcr tunes teh channels...

[lynx]

In UK, Asda (now part of Walmart) sell Pacific videos (PV204) for about £39 including tax (about &#036;60) and I am sure they will be cheaper than that in US. I feel pretty certain they (or something similar) will be available at Walmart too. These have scart socket, which can have a direct adapter to give s-video and stereo sound (via your sound system).

I got an adapter for these included with my last graphics card, except that was the other way round, ie from my graphic card s-video output and sound card to a scart connector.

[muchspl2]

yea you buy the "box" I posted,
cable from wall -> vcr => box (http://resellerratings.dealtime.com/xDN-Mi...a_CT1~CR-1~DW-0) =>svid out to lcd
its not that hard....

[muchspl2]

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 18:29
I think this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1082741915351&skuId=6628937&productCategoryId=cat03023&type=product) is what you&#39;re looking for.

Didnt see any stores that sold vcr&#39;s with s-video out. Except of course that one above. Ill keep looking though.
just look for svhs vcr
99% have svid out/in unless it says "quasi svhs playback" then its just like your vcr sept it playes svhs

[SingaBoiy]

Originally posted by muchspl2+13 July 2004 - 21:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 @ 13 July 2004 - 21:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SingaBoiy@13 July 2004 - 18:29
I think this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1082741915351&skuId=6628937&productCategoryId=cat03023&type=product) is what you&#39;re looking for.

Didnt see any stores that sold vcr&#39;s with s-video out. Except of course that one above. Ill keep looking though.
just look for svhs vcr
99% have svid out/in unless it says "quasi svhs playback" then its just like your vcr sept it playes svhs [/b][/quote]
I was looking at the svhs but only found the ones that played them. They didnt say anthying about s-vid out.

[muchspl2]

svhs = svid input/output

[SingaBoiy]

Originally posted by muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P

[muchspl2]

Originally posted by SingaBoiy+14 July 2004 - 02:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SingaBoiy @ 14 July 2004 - 02:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P [/b][/quote]
me selling electronics for 5 years > you googleing
:P

[lynx]

Originally posted by muchspl2+14 July 2004 - 08:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 @ 14 July 2004 - 08:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by SingaBoiy@14 July 2004 - 02:23
<!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P
me selling electronics for 5 years > you googleing
:P [/b][/quote]
So you&#39;ve been selling it wrong for 5 years?

Svhs is a recording system.
S-video is a connection method.

They are NOT the same thing.

[muchspl2]

Originally posted by lynx+14 July 2004 - 03:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 14 July 2004 - 03:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 08:00

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@14 July 2004 - 02:23
<!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P
me selling electronics for 5 years > you googleing
:P
So you&#39;ve been selling it wrong for 5 years?

Svhs is a recording system.
S-video is a connection method.

They are NOT the same thing. [/b][/quote]
what the fuck don&#39;t you understand
every svhs vcd (with the exception of the quasi playback models read: cheap vcr that can only playback svhs) has s-video inputs and outputs
da fuck is wrong with you people

[SingaBoiy]

Originally posted by muchspl2+14 July 2004 - 00:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 @ 14 July 2004 - 00:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by lynx@14 July 2004 - 03:57

Originally posted by muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 08:00

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@14 July 2004 - 02:23
<!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P
me selling electronics for 5 years > you googleing
:P
So you&#39;ve been selling it wrong for 5 years?

Svhs is a recording system.
S-video is a connection method.

They are NOT the same thing.
what the fuck don&#39;t you understand
every svhs vcd (with the exception of the quasi playback models read: cheap vcr that can only playback svhs) has s-video inputs and outputs
da fuck is wrong with you people [/b][/quote]
SVHS (http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/svhs.cfm)

[lynx]

Originally posted by muchspl2+14 July 2004 - 09:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 @ 14 July 2004 - 09:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by lynx@14 July 2004 - 03:57

Originally posted by muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 08:00

Originally posted by SingaBoiy@14 July 2004 - 02:23
<!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@13 July 2004 - 22:08
svhs = svid input/output
svhs is a better type of vhs tape. vhs tapes hold a max 250 lines of horizontal resolution. Svhs can hold up to 400.

:P
me selling electronics for 5 years > you googleing
:P
So you&#39;ve been selling it wrong for 5 years?

Svhs is a recording system.
S-video is a connection method.

They are NOT the same thing.
what the fuck don&#39;t you understand
every svhs vcd (with the exception of the quasi playback models read: cheap vcr that can only playback svhs) has s-video inputs and outputs
da fuck is wrong with you people [/b][/quote]
Maybe so, maybe not.

In any case they are not in any way related.

You are 100% totally completely wrong if you think they are.

SVHS = Super Vertical Helix Scan, the method of recording onto the tape.
S-video = 4-pin mini din connector with definitions of signal levels.

[muchspl2]

you people make me laugh at your reading comprehension
is it you think I don&#39;t know the difference between a s-video input and a svhs
read what I&#39;m trying to tell you FFS&#33;


Originally posted by muchspl2+14 July 2004 - 01:03--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muchspl2 &#064; 14 July 2004 - 01:03)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>just look for svhs vcr
99% have svid out/in unless it says "quasi svhs playback" then its just like your vcr sept it playes svhs[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 04:04
what the fuck don&#39;t you understand
every svhs vcR (with the exception of the quasi playback models read: cheap vcr that can only playback svhs) has s-video inputs and outputsda fuck is wrong with you people[/quote]

you are wrong if you think they don&#39;t, how the hell do you think they can record at such a higher resaluition, the fucking rf connection

[lynx]

Tv pictures have 500 (NTSC) or 600 (PAL) active lines.

Far more than enough for svhs.

Go and find out about it before you start spouting rubbish here.

[muchspl2]

then you&#39;re just ignorant, you just don&#39;t get it, my words or lost of your limited IQ and/or experience
so let me get this strait
now your saying giving a choice between a RF and a s-vid input connection (with digital source) you think RF will give you a equal signal quality as a s-vid for recording :lol:

[muchspl2]

guess I&#39;m the only one who knows about eletronics...

[tesco]

Originally posted by muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 21:43
guess I&#39;m the only one who knows about eletronics...
Lynx is the only other person who has any idea what you&#39;re on about...and he&#39;s most liek;y asleep now so don&#39;t expect an answer for another couple of hours...

and I don&#39;t know what to think because i have no clue what svhs is. :lol:

[muchspl2]

well I can only think he misunderstood me and once he found out he had to "stick to his guns" and continue his "argument" about me not knowing anything about electronics

I don&#39;t know but I have been selling electronic for years and have always been a audiophile/videophile as long as I can remember
my "argument" is clear
svhs vcrs by default come with s-video inputs & outputs unless other wise noted (quasi playback)
and in order to take advantage of the higher resolution recording (recording svhs) you have to use s-vid because RF will NOT give the same quality if giving the option of the two.

[sampson]

Sheesh&#33;&#33; All muchspl2 is saying is that the svcr&#39;s have the connections. Whether or not the video quality and recording quality is different is completely beside the point.

I don&#39;t know how we even got on that topic :huh: (too lazy to read back) :lol:

[lynx]

Panasonic NVSV121EBS (http://www.panasonic.co.uk/vcr/nvsv121ebs/index.htm)

It wasn&#39;t hard to find a s-vhs recorder which doesn&#39;t have s-vid connectors, but no doubt you will tell me Panasonic don&#39;t make quality products. I knew you were wrong because my brother has one of these (or something very like it).

What you should have realised it that in Europe the Scart connector is muh more prevalent. It is prefered because it has all the signals for audio, video (both composite and RGB) and data, input and output, in a single 21-pin connector. The specification is different from s-video but provides just as good quality.

You should also learn to read. I&#39;ve never said that many svhs recorders don&#39;t have s-video connectors, just that the two are not related, but you insisted that svhs recorders MUST have s-video for quality, and that is total bullshit.

Edit: btw, your 5 years selling electronic equipment doesn&#39;t count for much compared to nearly 30 years working with and even building electronics. But the thing I&#39;ve found most useful over the years is the ability to spot a bullshitter at first sight.

[muchspl2]

well in the us I have never seen a s-vhs vcr that doesn&#39;t have a svid input/outputs
yours is no doubt because of the scart output, its a shame you can&#39;t show me one thats sold in the us
BTW the panasonic is a fine unit, great brand, but they are the ones that feature "quasi playback"
ultimately you&#39;re the one who is full of shit if you really think that a majority don&#39;t have svid inputs/outputs
what a dick who can&#39;t admit he is wrong...

[lynx]

Originally posted by muchspl2@15 July 2004 - 14:28
what a dick who can&#39;t admit he is wrong...
You said it.

VB, how about a poll?

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx+15 July 2004 - 10:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 15 July 2004 - 10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@15 July 2004 - 14:28
what a dick who can&#39;t admit he is wrong...
You said it.

VB, how about a poll? [/b][/quote]
poll of what? Who&#39;s right?

[muchspl2]

no poll necessary
s-vhs vcrs have s-vid inputs.
end story

[lynx]

I&#39;ve provided proof that you are wrong.

All you have done is mouth off.

If you don&#39;t want to admit you are wrong, that&#39;s up to you.

[muchspl2]

but I contest your proof is flawed
all you provided was a s-vhs vcr that is sold over seas that has scart, you do realize that scart is the exception not the "rule"
every svhs vcr I have ever sold/deal&#39;ed with has had s-vid inputs
scart is unheard of in the us, at least I have never seen it
that is the difference between us and pal I guess:/ maybe you&#39;re just a dick IDK
strike that, you&#39;re just a dick

[lynx]

Ha, I show you a link to a manufacturer&#39;s website but you think they are the ones who have got it wrong? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I&#39;m sure if I looked at other manufacturers selling outside the USA I&#39;d find the same thing, but quite frankly you aren&#39;t worth the effort. You think that because you&#39;ve got something in the USA it has to be the same worldwide, but the rest of the world seems to prefer more elegant solutions.

Seems all you can do on here when you are wrong is get nasty.

[muchspl2]

truth hurts
we don&#39;t all live in the uk
I tried to tell you but you incest that your right
so do you really think rf is better than s-vid as a input :/
is that the selling point of s-vhs vcrs in the uk
not sure, just going off what I KNOW&#33;

[lynx]

There you have it.

I&#39;ve seen and used both Scart and s-video, you&#39;ve never used scart because the USA is so insular it doesn&#39;t like ideas from outside. The consequence is that you&#39;ve never seen scart, so your knowledge is obviously limited.

You can try to twist my words all you like, I didn&#39;t say rf was better than s-vid, I said it was sufficient to provide enough info for svhs to work properly. If you&#39;ve got a signal that comes from an analogue source, you can put it through a s-vid connector if you like but it won&#39;t improve the picture quality over an RF signal.

In any case, you will probably want audio too, and in the case of a vcr you will probably want signals in both directions, and an indicator when an output signal is present to enable auo-switching. These are provided in one connector with scart and is consequently prefered worldwide (except in the USA) to avoid having a tangle of wires, wrong connections, confusion for the consumer etc.

Btw, scart can carry s-video signals, but rarely does since no-one really wants to work with lower standards.

[muchspl2]

bla blA fucking bla
we don&#39;t have scart for a reason
just admit that the majority of svhs vcrS have s-vid inputs and we will be ok
you refuses to admit that I&#39;m right

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@15 July 2004 - 20:02
There you have it.

I&#39;ve seen and used both Scart and s-video, you&#39;ve never used scart because the USA is so insular it doesn&#39;t like ideas from outside. The consequence is that you&#39;ve never seen scart, so your knowledge is obviously limited.

You can try to twist my words all you like, I didn&#39;t say rf was better than s-vid, I said it was sufficient to provide enough info for svhs to work properly. If you&#39;ve got a signal that comes from an analogue source, you can put it through a s-vid connector if you like but it won&#39;t improve the picture quality over an RF signal.

In any case, you will probably want audio too, and in the case of a vcr you will probably want signals in both directions, and an indicator when an output signal is present to enable auo-switching. These are provided in one connector with scart and is consequently prefered worldwide (except in the USA) to avoid having a tangle of wires, wrong connections, confusion for the consumer etc.

Btw, scart can carry s-video signals, but rarely does since no-one really wants to work with lower standards.
SCART isn&#39;t in the US, like you said, it&#39;s also not in canada, infact i don&#39;t think it is anywhere where NTSC is used...I think SCART is only in PAL areas. :unsure:

Could be wrong though, just that i&#39;ve never seen it before. ;)

and to settle this argument, how about if sampson lives in the US then we&#39;ll agree with muchspl2 that he should go for a (non-quasi playback) svhs VCR...and if he is outside the US (possibly canada too, i have never seen an svhs VCR to say for sure) then LYNX is right that it is not an svhs VCR that he needs.

ok? agree?

sampson come settle the argument.

[lynx]

What a shame. You don&#39;t even realise that X-Box has scart connector. Whoops, couldn&#39;t be, it is made by an American company. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edit: in any case, so what. Your argument was that he had to have s-video so he had to get a svhs vcr because they are the same thing. I simply proved that they are not the same thing by showing you a svhs vcr without s-video.

My point is proved, accept it.

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@15 July 2004 - 20:28
What a shame. You don&#39;t even realise that X-Box has scart connector. Whoops, couldn&#39;t be, it is made by an American company. :lol:&nbsp; :lol:&nbsp; :lol:
:blink: No it doesn&#39;t...(not here anyway...)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/xbox-back.jpg
;)

[lynx]

My apologies, should have said "is available".

Link (http://www.xbox.com/en-gb/hardware/scartcable.htm)

Notice, "enables RGB video signals for improved video output". :lol:

[Super Dude]

Originally posted by muchspl2@16 July 2004 - 01:09
bla blA fucking bla
we don&#39;t have scart for a reason
just admit that the majority of svhs vcrS have s-vid inputs and we will be ok
you refuses to admit that I&#39;m right
:wacko:

http://www.rancidkoolaid.com/images/arguing.jpg

:huh:















:rolleyes:

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@15 July 2004 - 20:34
My apologies, should have said "is available".

Link (http://www.xbox.com/en-gb/hardware/scartcable.htm)

Notice, "enables RGB video signals for improved video output". :lol:
:blink: No idea how to hook that up. Looks really complicated.
I prefer something like this:

http://www.buynshop.com/images/products/505-07003.gif

aww...simplicity at it&#39;s best. B)


:lol:

seriously though, the US are stupid for not adopting the scart idea and using it. So much simpler, and better, should be used everywhere. I always wonder when the US will come out with something "standard." Every component you buy hooks up in a different way. :rolleyes:


Just like the robinson (or is it robert something, i dunne it starts with an R lol), the US couldn&#39;t stand something invented in canada so they won&#39;t let any "R" screw drivers be sold in the US.

But it is the standard for carpentry here in canada :D