The Thirteenth Vote

[manker]

*Please note this is not a topic disagreeing with a mods decision, my opinion is my own and is not in any way stated in this post. this is merely a post questioning the validity of a voting system and a proposal - so no need for rule # 12


As quoted by one of the team it seems the mods vote on Sam's moderation was decided by a "Forum Star"

According to my member search, previous to the shock double resignation of 2 of the team - for an unrelated incident apparently - there were 5 Forum Stars: Bender, El Jefe, Lamsey, Paul and VB. Most of these haven't posted for a long time. So you'd think that four of the five can be discounted due to the amount of time they have been absent (at least 8 months) - would be a bit strange to turn up just for a vote they knew nothing about and then leave, eh? That leaves Lamsey I suppose, if it was him then fair enough. Is there any way to find out?

If not him then I would consider the Thirteenth Vote to be fairly worthless, how can someone who hasn't been around for at least 8 months have an equal say to a moderator and have more say in how this board is run that all the members put together?

I propose that instead of the Thirteenth Vote a poll is put up on this section of the board where all members can vote either for indefinite moderation or an outright ban. The indefinite moderation can, of course, be managed by the current team at their discretion. I consider that in itself to be a compromise After all an Admin did state that there were as many members who didn't like Sam as there are members who do like him.

This would be a good way to find out.

[Rip The Jacker]

I'm not sure if BOT voted. If not, I had the 13th vote, while I was a Mod at the time.

[manker]

I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho'

[Rip The Jacker]

Oh OK, at first I wasn't sure what you were talking about, its kind of late here, and I'm pretty sleepy...

[Yogi]

Good idea.



yo4

[tracydani]

Could you imagine needing to count those votes? :blink: ?

What with all of the members who have more then 1 account, who is gonna make sure they only vote 1 time per member and not once per account? Sounds like something that can only end in another endless dissagreement.

TD

[pol]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 09:03
I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho'
if you'd read that thread then i dont see a need for this one. everything was explained on page 2 of it

i was confused myself at first about a 13th vote after looking at the team list link and seeing 12 names, but as Rip said and was already explained in that thread, there were another two mod team members when the poll was started

it wasn't a decision taken lightly, as you can tell the poll itself lasted a few days and only came about because of other threads

as for a member vote, are you suggesting that every decision made by mods/admin have to be approved by the members first. wonder how that would work

[manker]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 10:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 10:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 09:03
I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho&#39;
if you&#39;d read that thread then i dont see a need for this one. everything was explained on page 2 of it

i was confused myself at first about a 13th vote after looking at the team list link and seeing 12 names, but as Rip said and was already explained in that thread, there were another two mod team members when the poll was started

it wasn&#39;t a decision taken lightly, as you can tell the poll itself lasted a few days and only came about because of other threads

as for a member vote, are you suggesting that every decision made by mods/admin have to be approved by the members first. wonder how that would work [/b][/quote]
Yeah I realise that now. As I posted earlier in my reply to RTJ.

I&#39;m not suggesting each and every decision is taken with the aid of a member vote - that would be impractical - but in instances such as this where there is great discord among members and moderators alike, then yes, I think it would be helpful and a it would give some closure on the matter.

Kinda like how a referendum isn&#39;t taken with every decision the UK Government makes, just on matters which split parliament and the general public.

[pol]

Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 10:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker @ 13 July 2004 - 10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:17
<!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 09:03
I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho&#39;
if you&#39;d read that thread then i dont see a need for this one. everything was explained on page 2 of it

i was confused myself at first about a 13th vote after looking at the team list link and seeing 12 names, but as Rip said and was already explained in that thread, there were another two mod team members when the poll was started

it wasn&#39;t a decision taken lightly, as you can tell the poll itself lasted a few days and only came about because of other threads

as for a member vote, are you suggesting that every decision made by mods/admin have to be approved by the members first. wonder how that would work
Yeah I realise that now. As I posted earlier in my reply to RTJ.

I&#39;m not suggesting each and every decision is taken with the aid of a member vote - that would be impractical - but in instances such as this where there is great discord among members and moderators alike, then yes, I think it would be helpful and a it would give some closure on the matter.

Kinda like how a referendum isn&#39;t taken with every decision the UK Government makes, just on matters which split parliament and the general public. [/b][/quote]


the problem is the mods/admins decision are supposed to give closure on the matter. members who would be voting wouldn&#39;t know all the facts, warn levels and previous warnings/moderations etc

comparisons with referendums and the like just seem absurd to me. it&#39;s an internet forum, and we have to stick to the rules of running it to keep it fair for everyone, as i said before despite how popular someone is

[Cheese]

Edit: One good idea would be to let us know you are having a vote and ask for people&#39;s opinions before you all vote. That way at least we feel that we have been listened to. If a vote goes against people then so be it, at least the board&#39;s opinion has been listened to. Which can only be a good thing.

[manker]

Yes mods are supposed to give closure to a situation but that rule can&#39;t surpress member&#39;s points of view, nor can it stop members posting about them. I am trying to suggest a course of action that will appease everyone.

I don&#39;t see why a comparison to a referendum is absurd. In importance yes, but in practicality, no. Mods run a forum for the members, not for personal gratification, so why not listen to their opinions on matters which particularly grieve them? If only for the harmony of the board.

[pol]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:41
Yes mods are supposed to give closure to a situation but that rule can&#39;t surpress member&#39;s points of view, nor can it stop members posting about them. I am trying to suggest a course of action that will appease everyone.

I don&#39;t see why a comparison to a referendum is absurd. In importance yes, but in practicality, no. Mods run a forum for the members, not for personal gratification, so why not listen to their opinions on matters which particularly grieve them? If only for the harmony of the board.


yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it

[pol]

Originally posted by Withcheese+13 July 2004 - 10:36--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese @ 13 July 2004 - 10:36)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:26

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:22

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:17
<!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 09:03
I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho&#39;
if you&#39;d read that thread then i dont see a need for this one. everything was explained on page 2 of it

i was confused myself at first about a 13th vote after looking at the team list link and seeing 12 names, but as Rip said and was already explained in that thread, there were another two mod team members when the poll was started

it wasn&#39;t a decision taken lightly, as you can tell the poll itself lasted a few days and only came about because of other threads

as for a member vote, are you suggesting that every decision made by mods/admin have to be approved by the members first. wonder how that would work
Yeah I realise that now. As I posted earlier in my reply to RTJ.

I&#39;m not suggesting each and every decision is taken with the aid of a member vote - that would be impractical - but in instances such as this where there is great discord among members and moderators alike, then yes, I think it would be helpful and a it would give some closure on the matter.

Kinda like how a referendum isn&#39;t taken with every decision the UK Government makes, just on matters which split parliament and the general public.


the problem is the mods/admins decision are supposed to give closure on the matter. members who would be voting wouldn&#39;t know all the facts, warn levels and previous warnings/moderations etc

comparisons with referendums and the like just seem absurd to me. it&#39;s an internet forum, and we have to stick to the rules of running it to keep it fair for everyone, as i said before despite how popular someone is
Problem is your decision making process is flawed.

Your voting system is just strange, forum stars are allowed to vote? Doesn&#39;t that give Error two votes?

Some members in the past have been just banned outright with no team consultation, what the hell is that about? Cely and Peerzy have suffered because of this...glad to see them back now though.

And how much effort would it be to say, "Look we&#39;re having a vote on this matter we&#39;ll get back to you all."? [/b][/quote]
i missed your post. how is the voting flawed, it&#39;s already been explained in this thread and the other one it links to

[Cheese]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 10:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol &#064; 13 July 2004 - 10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 10:36

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:26

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:22

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:17
<!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 09:03
I was reacting to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117954&st=0#) post. I see what you mean though.

I still think a public vote with the options described is a good compromise tho&#39;
if you&#39;d read that thread then i dont see a need for this one. everything was explained on page 2 of it

i was confused myself at first about a 13th vote after looking at the team list link and seeing 12 names, but as Rip said and was already explained in that thread, there were another two mod team members when the poll was started

it wasn&#39;t a decision taken lightly, as you can tell the poll itself lasted a few days and only came about because of other threads

as for a member vote, are you suggesting that every decision made by mods/admin have to be approved by the members first. wonder how that would work
Yeah I realise that now. As I posted earlier in my reply to RTJ.

I&#39;m not suggesting each and every decision is taken with the aid of a member vote - that would be impractical - but in instances such as this where there is great discord among members and moderators alike, then yes, I think it would be helpful and a it would give some closure on the matter.

Kinda like how a referendum isn&#39;t taken with every decision the UK Government makes, just on matters which split parliament and the general public.


the problem is the mods/admins decision are supposed to give closure on the matter. members who would be voting wouldn&#39;t know all the facts, warn levels and previous warnings/moderations etc

comparisons with referendums and the like just seem absurd to me. it&#39;s an internet forum, and we have to stick to the rules of running it to keep it fair for everyone, as i said before despite how popular someone is
Problem is your decision making process is flawed.

Your voting system is just strange, forum stars are allowed to vote? Doesn&#39;t that give Error two votes?

Some members in the past have been just banned outright with no team consultation, what the hell is that about? Cely and Peerzy have suffered because of this...glad to see them back now though.

And how much effort would it be to say, "Look we&#39;re having a vote on this matter we&#39;ll get back to you all."?
i missed your post. how is the voting flawed, it&#39;s already been explained in this thread and the other one it links to [/b][/quote]
Instead of using the poll button you should just post whether you are in agreement or not to any idea. Particularly when the decision is close, especially when the decision is close. That way you can make sure the right people are voting.

Surely if forum stars have access to Team Chat that means they can vote in the polls as well? That just seems wrong to me.



Edit By RF: Removed one sentence that, in effect, removed someones privacy...and legal reasons concerning it.

[manker]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 10:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 10:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 10:41
Yes mods are supposed to give closure to a situation but that rule can&#39;t surpress member&#39;s points of view, nor can it stop members posting about them. I am trying to suggest a course of action that will appease everyone.

I don&#39;t see why a comparison to a referendum is absurd. In importance yes, but in practicality, no. Mods run a forum for the members, not for personal gratification, so why not listen to their opinions on matters which particularly grieve them? If only for the harmony of the board.


yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it [/b][/quote]
I took the time to point out that, in fact, mods did not run this board for personal gratification rather than the converse as you seem to be implying.

Indeed, I did agree while signing up to stick to the rules. However, I am pretty sure that by posting what I have so far in this thread I am not going against any board rules.

I just don&#39;t see the harm in taking the member&#39;s wishes into account at times when the situation may be eased by it.

[{I}{K}{E}]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 09:34
I propose that instead of the Thirteenth Vote a poll is put up on this section of the board where all members can vote either for indefinite moderation or an outright ban. The indefinite moderation can, of course, be managed by the current team at their discretion. I consider that in itself to be a compromise After all an Admin did state that there were as many members who didn&#39;t like Sam as there are members who do like him.
But will people vote because they like him or not? thats whats going to happen I think.. Its not a matter of who likes him or not. its because what he did recently and what he did in the past. You cannot read his warnings or how high his warning level is. So I think its not fair to make a public vote for the ban, also because other members did not get a public vote if they should be banned or not.

[pol]

Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 10:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker @ 13 July 2004 - 10:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:45
<!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 10:41
Yes mods are supposed to give closure to a situation but that rule can&#39;t surpress member&#39;s points of view, nor can it stop members posting about them. I am trying to suggest a course of action that will appease everyone.

I don&#39;t see why a comparison to a referendum is absurd. In importance yes, but in practicality, no. Mods run a forum for the members, not for personal gratification, so why not listen to their opinions on matters which particularly grieve them? If only for the harmony of the board.


yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it
I took the time to point out that, in fact, mods did not run this board for personal gratification rather than the converse as you seem to be implying.

Indeed, I did agree while signing up to stick to the rules. However, I am pretty sure that by posting what I have so far in this thread I am not going against any board rules.

I just don&#39;t see the harm in taking the member&#39;s wishes into account at times when the situation may be eased by it. [/b][/quote]
i wasn&#39;t talking about you, or this thread :huh:

[Cheese]

Originally posted by {I}{K}{E}+13 July 2004 - 10:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ({I}{K}{E} @ 13 July 2004 - 10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 09:34
I propose that instead of the Thirteenth Vote a poll is put up on this section of the board where all members can vote either for indefinite moderation or an outright ban. The indefinite moderation can, of course, be managed by the current team at their discretion. I consider that in itself to be a compromise After all an Admin did state that there were as many members who didn&#39;t like Sam as there are members who do like him.
But will people vote because they like him or not? thats whats going to happen I think.. Its not a matter of who likes him or not. its because what he did recently and what he did in the past. You cannot read his warnings or how high his warning level is. So I think its not fair to make a public vote for the ban, also because other members did not get a public vote if they should be banned or not. [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t agree with a public vote either, polls on forums never really work. But taking the time to ask people&#39;s opinions in a thread before making a decision is a good idea.

[pol]

Originally posted by Withcheese
Instead of using the poll button you should just post whether you are in agreement or not to any idea. Particularly when the decision is close, especially when the decision is close. That way you can make sure the right people are voting.

Surely if forum stars have access to Team Chat that means they can vote in the polls as well? That just seems wrong to me. Especially since that means Error has two votes on any matter...(not saying he would use it but as it stands he has that option...).


i can only speak for myself, and i did post in the thread, 4 times i think. as i said it wasn&#39;t taken lightly, by anyone, and went on for a few days. as i said earlier it only came about because of other threads that were going on

[manker]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 10:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 10:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:57

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 10:45
<!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 10:41
Yes mods are supposed to give closure to a situation but that rule can&#39;t surpress member&#39;s points of view, nor can it stop members posting about them. I am trying to suggest a course of action that will appease everyone.

I don&#39;t see why a comparison to a referendum is absurd. In importance yes, but in practicality, no. Mods run a forum for the members, not for personal gratification, so why not listen to their opinions on matters which particularly grieve them? If only for the harmony of the board.


yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it
I took the time to point out that, in fact, mods did not run this board for personal gratification rather than the converse as you seem to be implying.

Indeed, I did agree while signing up to stick to the rules. However, I am pretty sure that by posting what I have so far in this thread I am not going against any board rules.

I just don&#39;t see the harm in taking the member&#39;s wishes into account at times when the situation may be eased by it.
i wasn&#39;t talking about you, or this thread :huh: [/b][/quote]
But you replied to me and quoted me. But I don&#39;t care about that.

(@ IKE too) You seem to think that because you are fully briefed on the circumstance that you (the mod team) posess the only opinion that counts and that all other opinions on the matter should be disregarded.

I don&#39;t want to post another political analogy but it doesn&#39;t require an expansive knowledge to understand what ideology that pertains to.

Let the members have a say, no matter how small. One vote out of thirteen isn&#39;t too much to ask for, surely?

[{I}{K}{E}]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 12:11
(@ IKE too) You seem to think that because you are fully briefed on the circumstance that you (the mod team) posess the only opinion that counts and that all other opinions on the matter should be disregarded.
Well I think mods/admins should choose if someone should be banned or not. thats how it was in the past and how it will be in the future in my opinion
We don&#39;t ignore the opinions of the members because if we did we already had all the sam4 topics moved to the trash. but what should we have done otherwise?
Put him on moderation and create a topic here asking if we should ban him or not?


The problem is now that we banned a member that many people liked here. but it was a fair ban. because he did enough to get banned imo.

[pol]

But you replied to me and quoted me. But I don&#39;t care about that.


but the thread isn&#39;t about you, but i dont care about that either

as i&#39;ve tried to explain, when someone signs up they agree to stick to the rules. i wont go in to specifics, but Sam&#39;s level was already beyond the point of the guidelines we follow, to discuss a ban. meaning that he had already went through stages of warnings/pm&#39;s/moderation

[manker]

I know the mods are following board rules to the letter and I know Sam broke those rules, that is beyond dispute. Of course the mods are well within their rights to ban Sam.

Since the mods know all connected relevant issues, you will also know that there are mitigating circumstances and that there are people who have done worse things and not got banned. That is why some members are upset. That is why some members are asking for leniency in this case.

However, I&#39;m not going to debate with a brick wall. Thanks for treating my posts seriously and providing some answers, at least.

[tracydani]

pol, you had better start taking these people seriously. After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board. They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here. They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by tracydani@13 July 2004 - 11:41
pol, you had better start taking these people seriously. After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board. They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here. They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.
What does that have to do with this issue in any way shape or form?

If you have a problem with the way people post in the lounge then I suggest you make your own thread and not try to troll others with an off-topic argument. :)

[DanB]

Originally posted by tracydani@13 July 2004 - 12:41
pol, you had better start taking these people seriously.&nbsp; After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board.&nbsp; They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here.&nbsp; They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.
Ah yes that About you thread, a great piece of Hardware Talk if I ever saw one :lol:

Besides seriuos topics aren&#39;t meant to be in teh lounge, thats waat the Talk Club was invented for :P



Edit - Sorry TD, are you having a pop at people for replying to it or at Pol for moving it? :unsure:

[manker]

Originally posted by danb+13 July 2004 - 11:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 13 July 2004 - 11:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tracydani@13 July 2004 - 12:41
pol, you had better start taking these people seriously. After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board. They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here. They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.
Ah yes that About you thread, a great piece of Hardware Talk if I ever saw one :lol:

Besides seriuos topics aren&#39;t meant to be in teh lounge, thats waat the Talk Club was invented for :P



Edit - Sorry TD, are you having a pop at people for replying to it or at Pol for moving it? :unsure: [/b][/quote]
Actually Dan, I think TD was saying that the people who post in the louge aren&#39;t necessarily moronic spammers.

A backhanded compliment <_<

[Cheese]

Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 12:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker @ 13 July 2004 - 12:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by danb@13 July 2004 - 11:55
<!--QuoteBegin-tracydani@13 July 2004 - 12:41
pol, you had better start taking these people seriously. After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board. They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here. They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.
Ah yes that About you thread, a great piece of Hardware Talk if I ever saw one :lol:

Besides seriuos topics aren&#39;t meant to be in teh lounge, thats waat the Talk Club was invented for :P



Edit - Sorry TD, are you having a pop at people for replying to it or at Pol for moving it? :unsure:
Actually Dan, I think TD was saying that the people who post in the louge aren&#39;t necessarily moronic spammers.

A backhanded compliment <_< [/b][/quote]
I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling. :(

[pol]

Originally posted by Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:02

I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling. :(
i disagree. and i think it&#39;s a shame that while you ask us to be aware of other peoples points of view, which we try to as much as possible, you seem to disregard other peoples opinions at will

[Snee]

Originally posted by tracydani@13 July 2004 - 12:41
pol, you had better start taking these people seriously. After all, look how they contributed to this (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117290&st=60) thread(beginning page 5).

As you can see, they are only in it for the betterment of the board. They do not jump in just anywhere and post nonsense which could be interpreted as spam or just plain ruin a good thing.

They are all about the rules and the smooth running of the board.

TD

The above is not directed at everyone arguing for sam but to a basic group of people here who seem to enjoy doing this type of thing to many members/threads here. They pretty much jump in as a group and spoil it for the originators of the thread.
Again, read the threads before you comment I know it&#39;s hard for you, but on occasion, you could try, cheese&#39;s first comment was if anything defending the bloke who had posted the picture of the girl.

As for the rest, it really didn&#39;t get harsh until a couple of hardware world folks came in critisizing everybody in the lounge, as an explanation to why they&#39;d been breaking the rules by placing an off-topic thread in hardware world.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 12:06--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:06)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:02

I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling. :(
i disagree. and i think it&#39;s a shame that while you ask us to be aware of other peoples points of view, which we try to as much as possible, you seem to disregard other peoples opinions at will [/b][/quote]
TD has always posted what he thinks the mods want to hear and not what he really feels.

That&#39;s my opinion on the matter I guess, but there you have it. It still doesn&#39;t take away from the fact that his post had little relevance to the thread. What relevance does that topic have to anything being talked to here?

Edit: And if people don&#39;t like their topics being hijacked then they can always ask for it to be moved to Talk Club.

[Peerzy]

13 votes, 12 Current Moderators, The 13th Vote being RTJ. What about BOT&#39;s vote may i ask? He is a forum star who has a signature using the words &#39;Free&#39; If Forum Star&#39;s are alowed to vote then that means Lamesy still hasnt voted either, two other forum stars (prev. Moderators) havent voted but they have pritty much left the board. And what about that guy who hosts all the KL Codec packs and such, he&#39;s a forum star, he could have sneaked in a vote. Also becuase the ban was issued after RTJ was turned intot a forum star wouldnt that void his vote becuase at the time out counting up there would have been 6 each way and a forum star vote.

Well seing as admins choices are final i think its time you re-ban me. Also i confes while my Peerzyboy account was on moderation (just got moderator within minutes) i posted using my NikiD (notice only one K) account, therefor i have broken the rules.

BUT when i joined this board i agree&#39;d to a set of rules, not the current ones now, and i have never agree&#39;d to the current ones therefor im still using past rules and so is Sam and according to a source of mine Those rules didnt have the us another account get banned rule. Or rule #12. So really you need to get everbody to re-sign up and accept the new rules.

If this place keeps up the way it is them you wont be seing me around here much longer,

James.

[pol]

Originally posted by Withcheese+13 July 2004 - 12:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 12:06
<!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:02

I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling. :(
i disagree. and i think it&#39;s a shame that while you ask us to be aware of other peoples points of view, which we try to as much as possible, you seem to disregard other peoples opinions at will
TD has always posted what he thinks the mods want to hear and not what he really feels.

That&#39;s my opinion on the matter I guess, but there you have it. It still doesn&#39;t take away from the fact that his post had little relevance to the thread. What relevance does that topic have to anything being talked to here?[/b][/quote]
i could say what relevance does this thread have with the rules of the board, but i&#39;d just get shot down again for quoting rules i guess

the only one of those that seem relevant here, if yourself or anyone else who wants to, is to get in touch with another mod or admin, as it doesn&#39;t seem to make any difference what i tell you

[Entity101]

The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [B][O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 12:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 12:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:11

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 12:06
<!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:02

I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling. :(
i disagree. and i think it&#39;s a shame that while you ask us to be aware of other peoples points of view, which we try to as much as possible, you seem to disregard other peoples opinions at will
TD has always posted what he thinks the mods want to hear and not what he really feels.

That&#39;s my opinion on the matter I guess, but there you have it. It still doesn&#39;t take away from the fact that his post had little relevance to the thread. What relevance does that topic have to anything being talked to here?
i could say what relevance does this thread have with the rules of the board, but i&#39;d just get shot down again for quoting rules i guess

the only one of those that seem relevant here, if yourself or anyone else who wants to, is to get in touch with another mod or admin, as it doesn&#39;t seem to make any difference what i tell you [/b][/quote]
Well I was done with the debate (until TD stomped in) and it&#39;s great that you took the time to reply to us (and to moderate my posts ;) ). People aren&#39;t going to agree but at least we have had some discussion which is a good thing.

[DanB]

So if you are not actively moderating can you still vote? :unsure:


Sort of like I don&#39;t want to do the work but i will have the vote? :unsure:

[tracydani]

I have no idea if all the quotes will work, but here goes.


What does that have to do with this issue in any way shape or form?

If you have a problem with the way people post in the lounge then I suggest you make your own thread and not try to troll others with an off-topic argument.

Your absolutely right. Now that you have said this, maybe other threads won&#39;t end up with this same treatment?


Ah yes that About you thread, a great piece of Hardware Talk if I ever saw one&nbsp;

Besides seriuos topics aren&#39;t meant to be in teh lounge, thats waat the Talk Club was invented for

I agree, but unfortunately the thread was moved to the lounge. Too bad people couldn&#39;t restrain themselves a little and leave it to the people it was meant for.


dit - Sorry TD, are you having a pop at people for replying to it or at Pol for moving it?

I am sure if pol had thought of the results of such a move he would have either moved it to talk club or maybe even excersised a little of that flexibility you guys want for sam and left it where it was.


Actually Dan, I think TD was saying that the people who post in the louge aren&#39;t necessarily moronic spammers.

A backhanded compliment

Sorry, not a compliment, but not aimed at the whole lounge either.


I think TD was trying to be sarcastic, kiss up to the mods and derail a good thread with a spot of trolling.

Without sounding like a kiss up, what pol said :P



Again, read the threads before you comment I know it&#39;s hard for you, but on occasion, you could try, cheese&#39;s first comment was if anything defending the bloke who had posted the picture of the girl.

As for the rest, it really didn&#39;t get harsh until a couple of hardware world folks came in critisizing everybody in the lounge, as an explanation to why they&#39;d been breaking the rules by placing an off-topic thread in hardware world.

Yours was the first off topic post. :rolleyes: Couldn&#39;t leave well enough alone and let the people have their own thread without your interference, yet you want me to do the same?

TD

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22


Now stfu.
Nice attitude.

No wonder so many people dislike you on this board. I guess it&#39;s not a popularity contest...lucky for you.

[DanB]

Originally posted by tracydani@13 July 2004 - 13:24



Ah yes that About you thread, a great piece of Hardware Talk if I ever saw one&nbsp;

Besides seriuos topics aren&#39;t meant to be in teh lounge, thats waat the Talk Club was invented for

I agree, but unfortunately the thread was moved to the lounge. Too bad people couldn&#39;t restrain themselves a little and leave it to the people it was meant for.

Sorry to go off topic but are you now suggesting people shouldnt have posted in that thread cos it was Bigdawgfozz&#39;s meet the geek thread?

I can and will post anywhere I want <_<

[tracydani]

Originally posted by Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 14:11

TD has always posted what he thinks the mods want to hear and not what he really feels.
I wouldn&#39;t waste my time.

TD

[Cheese]

I agree, but unfortunately the thread was moved to the lounge. Too bad people couldn&#39;t restrain themselves a little and leave it to the people it was meant for.

That is why we have Talk Club...in general threads in the Lounge go off track. No particular group is to blame for this, it&#39;s just the way things go. If a thread is going off-topic then if the poster of the thread wants he can get a mod to move it to talk club.

Where it should have been posted first of all.

[tracydani]

Originally posted by danb@13 July 2004 - 14:26

I can and will post anywhere I want <_<
That&#39;s usually the problem, although I would say that when I think of this type of posting, you are not the first to pop into mind.

TD

[Peerzy]

Originally posted by Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [B][O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
Theres 12 mod team memebers, 2 move, and 13 votes. brian hasnt voted. and if he votes in favour of sam then it would mean its equal again so there would be no right to ban him. Also in other threads you said the majority voted for sam to be banned. we now know thats a lie becuase it was evens untill the last vote.

[DanB]

Originally posted by tracydani+13 July 2004 - 13:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tracydani @ 13 July 2004 - 13:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-danb@13 July 2004 - 14:26

I can and will post anywhere I want&nbsp; <_<
That&#39;s usually the problem, although I would say that when I think of this type of posting, you are not the first to pop into mind.

TD [/b][/quote]
Thanks :D


But there is no way to stop anybody from posting where they want is there? :unsure:


Anyway you are taking me off topic, we want a recount, this isn&#39;t the American Presidential Election you know :lol:

[Cheese]

Originally posted by tracydani+13 July 2004 - 12:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tracydani @ 13 July 2004 - 12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-danb@13 July 2004 - 14:26

I can and will post anywhere I want&nbsp; <_<
That&#39;s usually the problem, although I would say that when I think of this type of posting, you are not the first to pop into mind.

TD [/b][/quote]
So who are you singling out then?

[manker]

Originally posted by Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [B][O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
I&#39;ve already agreed my original post was in error regarding the forum star vote.

How about the part where some people say it is a desirable moderator/admin trait to seek, listen to and take into account member opinion on certain matters which breed discontent among the community as a whole. What are your feelings on that?

[tracydani]

Originally posted by danb@13 July 2004 - 14:33

Anyway you are taking me off topic, we want a recount, this isn&#39;t the American Presidential Election you know :lol:
:lol: That&#39;s the first thing I thought of when someone mentioned having members vote. Just think of all the havok with the multiple accounts mixed into the equation :blink: :lol:

TD

[pol]

Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 12:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
I&#39;ve already agreed my original post was in error regarding the forum star vote.

How about the part where some people say it is a desirable moderator/admin trait to seek, listen to and take into account member opinion on certain matters which breed discontent among the community as a whole. What are your feelings on that?[/quote]
certain matters is fine. moderation/banning of members is not

[tracydani]

Originally posted by Withcheese@13 July 2004 - 12:40
Edit: One good idea would be to let us know you are having a vote and ask for people&#39;s opinions before you all vote. That way at least we feel that we have been listened to. If a vote goes against people then so be it, at least the board&#39;s opinion has been listened to. Which can only be a good thing.
I had forgot to reply to this.

I agree with this idea for future issues, but would not suggest recalling current decisions. But somehow we all seem to forget that it is up to the admin when all is said and done. This would most likely just be a sort of placebo(sp?) and not really mean anything though.

TD

[pol]

Originally posted by Withcheese+13 July 2004 - 12:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22


Now stfu.
Nice attitude.

No wonder so many people dislike you on this board. I guess it&#39;s not a popularity contest...lucky for you.[/b][/quote]
you&#39;re right it&#39;s not a popularity contest, and thats why it&#39;s unlucky for Sam. being a popular member doesn&#39;t mean we should disregard the rules when it comes to moderating

[manker]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 12:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 12:35
<!--QuoteBegin-Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
I&#39;ve already agreed my original post was in error regarding the forum star vote.

How about the part where some people say it is a desirable moderator/admin trait to seek, listen to and take into account member opinion on certain matters which breed discontent among the community as a whole. What are your feelings on that?
certain matters is fine. moderation/banning of members is not [/quote]
Are you Error too? :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member but is important on anything else?

edit: typing

[Entity101]

Originally posted by peerzyboy+13 July 2004 - 13:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peerzyboy @ 13 July 2004 - 13:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
Theres 12 mod team memebers, 2 move, and 13 votes. brian hasnt voted. and if he votes in favour of sam then it would mean its equal again so there would be no right to ban him. Also in other threads you said the majority voted for sam to be banned. we now know thats a lie becuase it was evens untill the last vote. [/quote]
It was 7-5 until the last vote.

[DanB]

Originally posted by Error403+13 July 2004 - 13:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Error403 @ 13 July 2004 - 13:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by peerzyboy@13 July 2004 - 13:33
<!--QuoteBegin-Error403@13 July 2004 - 12:22
The votes in order of time:

#1: CornerPocket
#2: [O][T]
#3: Error403
#4: {I}{K}{E}
#5: Virtualbody1234
#6: Rat Faced
#7: NikkiD
#8: Rip The Jacker
#9: Guitar-Slinger
#10: jetje
#11: pol
#12: RPerry
#13: MagicNakor

Now stfu.
Theres 12 mod team memebers, 2 move, and 13 votes. brian hasnt voted. and if he votes in favour of sam then it would mean its equal again so there would be no right to ban him. Also in other threads you said the majority voted for sam to be banned. we now know thats a lie becuase it was evens untill the last vote.
It was 7-5 until the last vote. [/quote]
Ah yes, the mod that is not on mod duties :rolleyes:

[Entity101]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 13:41
Are you Error too?&nbsp; :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member but is important on anything else?

edit: typing
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest?

[DanB]

Originally posted by Error403+13 July 2004 - 13:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Error403 @ 13 July 2004 - 13:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 13:41
Are you Error too?&nbsp; :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member but is important on anything else?

edit: typing
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest? [/b][/quote]
Who has Sam killed? :unsure:

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Error403+13 July 2004 - 12:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Error403 @ 13 July 2004 - 12:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 13:41
Are you Error too? :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member but is important on anything else?

edit: typing
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest? [/b][/quote]
He also wouldn&#39;t go to prison on a 7-6 vote... :) I&#39;m not 100% sure on jury service but I&#39;m pretty sure that would be some sort of hung jury...

[pol]

Are you Error too? :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member?

see above

call it intuition, but i get the feeling i&#39;m just being piss-ripped now. i&#39;ve wasted enough of my time on this, you&#39;re free to spend yours as you like

as long as it&#39;s within the rules of course :)

[Entity101]

Originally posted by danb@13 July 2004 - 13:44
Who has Sam killed? :unsure:
Two fluffy bunnies.

It&#39;s so sad :&#39;( :&#39;(

[manker]

Originally posted by Error403+13 July 2004 - 12:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Error403 @ 13 July 2004 - 12:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 13:41
Are you Error too? :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member but is important on anything else?

edit: typing
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest? [/b][/quote]
No. I&#39;m not saying that. I&#39;m saying if there are mitigating circumstances then they should be taken into account. Think of Brookside and the Jordaches.

I was taken to task by pol earlier for likening advocating a public vote to a referendum, I think likening Sam to a murderer overkill of a more explicit kind.

[manker]

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 12:45

Are you Error too? :lol:

I didn&#39;t realise that was the official policy, where does it say that in the board rules? More specifically I mean where exactly do the rules say that member opinion is not important when it comes to banning or moderation of a member?

see above

call it intuition, but i get the feeling i&#39;m just being piss-ripped now. i&#39;ve wasted enough of my time on this
^^ likewise.

I wasn&#39;t taking the piss, in fact as I said about 20 replies up I&#39;m pleased you took the time to apply some thought and treat my posts seriously.

[Illuminati]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 11:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol &#064; 13 July 2004 - 11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it[/b]
Technically, we agreed to the rules that were there when we registered. We had no action to show our agreement to amendments of the rules, so older members&#39; agreements to amendments is assumed.

But assumed is not fact, and those rules are not always agreed with every old-timer member here ;)

<!--QuoteBegin-Error403@ 13 July 2004 - 13:43
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest?[/quote]

Well if George W. Bush can get away with it... :D

[DanB]

Bully boy tactics rawk :01:

[pol]

Originally posted by Illuminati+13 July 2004 - 12:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Illuminati &#064; 13 July 2004 - 12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 11:45
yup we get a great deal of "personal gratification" with things like this you know. the thing is when you signed up for the board, the same as me and anyone else, you agreed to stick to the rules of it
Technically, we agreed to the rules that were there when we registered. We had no action to show our agreement to amendments of the rules, so older members&#39; agreements to amendments is assumed.

But assumed is not fact, and those rules are not always agreed with every old-timer member here ;)

<!--QuoteBegin-Error403@ 13 July 2004 - 13:43
So a murderer shouldn&#39;t go to prison because he wins some kind of popularity contest?

Well if George W. Bush can get away with it... :D[/b][/quote]
i&#39;ve already made my opinion quite clear of your involvement in this, here it&#39;s here (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117937&view=findpost&p=1076357) in case you missed it

and this has always been part of the rules:


15. You are responsible to read our board guidelines from time to time to be aware of the current version. Please check back often to check if our guidelines have changed.

again, as you dont know all the facts invloved your point is rather mute, and again as i said i&#39;ve wasted enough time with it

[DanB]

I just made an opinon here (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=118009&view=findpost&p=1077047) :D

[pol]

Originally posted by danb@13 July 2004 - 13:20
I just made an opinon here (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=118009&view=findpost&p=1077047) :D
good for you&#33;

i just thought i&#39;d reply as he quoted me is all, and i really have wasted enough time on this now :D

[DanB]

Hiding behind old events that no-one else got incvolved in is good too :D


I mean did anyone actually get involved in the Sam & Jonno disagreement or even the FC one? :unsure: I think not

[lynx]

Originally posted by {I}{K}{E}@13 July 2004 - 10:58
So I think its not fair to make a public vote for the ban, also because other members did not get a public vote if they should be banned or not.
Isn&#39;t that like saying "we may have got it wrong in the past, so we don&#39;t want a system that might help to prevent that"? Sorry, that&#39;s just a cop out.

Speaking in general, not about any current situation, there seems to be too much of the "we volunteered for this position, so you shouldn&#39;t question our decisions" attitude from some mods. The response is often "read the rules, if you don&#39;t like them you can always leave".

My comment to mods with this attitude is this - if you don&#39;t like the members&#39; response to your actions, you can always resign. The forum may be run by the admins, but it is made by the members and the mods are there to keep things running FOR THE MEMBERS. If you think you are doing it for the admins or for yourselves you are sadly mistaken.

[manker]

Originally posted by lynx+13 July 2004 - 14:44--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx &#064; 13 July 2004 - 14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-{I}{K}{E}@13 July 2004 - 10:58
So I think its not fair to make a public vote for the ban, also because other members did not get a public vote if they should be banned or not.
Isn&#39;t that like saying "we may have got it wrong in the past, so we don&#39;t want a system that might help to prevent that"? Sorry, that&#39;s just a cop out.

Speaking in general, not about any current situation, there seems to be too much of the "we volunteered for this position, so you shouldn&#39;t question our decisions" attitude from some mods. The response is often "read the rules, if you don&#39;t like them you can always leave".

My comment to mods with this attitude is this - if you don&#39;t like the members&#39; response to your actions, you can always resign. The forum may be run by the admins, but it is made by the members and the mods are there to keep things running FOR THE MEMBERS. If you think you are doing it for the admins or for yourselves you are sadly mistaken.[/b][/quote]
That is entirely the point I was trying to make for four hours this morning.

I alluded to it here (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=118009&hl=&view=findpost&p=1076927) although you summed it up more succinctly and eloquently than I. Cheers :D

[pol]

Originally posted by lynx
Speaking in general, not about any current situation, there seems to be too much of the "we volunteered for this position, so you shouldn&#39;t question our decisions" attitude from some mods. The response is often "read the rules, if you don&#39;t like them you can always leave".

i&#39;ve no real problem with anyone questioning decisions, although i&#39;d rather it was done a different way, like by pm

i&#39;ve quoted rules in threads because it seemed like the relevant thing to do, as it seems to be the fashion to question everything that is done - i know some of it is ligitimate but i dont think all of it is. i dont agree that members should be involved in moderation/banning decisions, for lots of reasons

i&#39;ve no problem &#39;stepping down&#39; or &#39;resigning&#39; either, if it&#39;s what most people want then it&#39;s for the best. perhaps a poll for that would be better

[Adster]

i wonder who decides weather or not a mod is to get banned :unsure:

do we have a team for that :huh:

[DanB]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 15:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx
Speaking in general, not about any current situation, there seems to be too much of the "we volunteered for this position, so you shouldn&#39;t question our decisions" attitude from some mods. The response is often "read the rules, if you don&#39;t like them you can always leave".

i&#39;ve no real problem with anyone questioning decisions, although i&#39;d rather it was done a different way, like by pm

i&#39;ve quoted rules in threads because it seemed like the relevant thing to do, as it seems to be the fashion to question everything that is done - i know some of it is ligitimate but i dont think all of it is. i dont agree that members should be involved in moderation/banning decisions, for lots of reasons

i&#39;ve no problem &#39;stepping down&#39; or &#39;resigning&#39; either, if it&#39;s what most people want then it&#39;s for the best. perhaps a poll for that would be better [/b][/quote]
Noble offer Pol but I don&#39;t think its needed. At least you replied, even if it wasn&#39;t what we want to hear :lol:

If anybody should resign.................................

[manker]

Originally posted by pol+13 July 2004 - 14:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pol @ 13 July 2004 - 14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx
Speaking in general, not about any current situation, there seems to be too much of the "we volunteered for this position, so you shouldn&#39;t question our decisions" attitude from some mods. The response is often "read the rules, if you don&#39;t like them you can always leave".

i&#39;ve no real problem with anyone questioning decisions, although i&#39;d rather it was done a different way, like by pm

i&#39;ve quoted rules in threads because it seemed like the relevant thing to do, as it seems to be the fashion to question everything that is done - i know some of it is ligitimate but i dont think all of it is. i dont agree that members should be involved in moderation/banning decisions, for lots of reasons

i&#39;ve no problem &#39;stepping down&#39; or &#39;resigning&#39; either, if it&#39;s what most people want then it&#39;s for the best. perhaps a poll for that would be better [/b][/quote]
Speaking personally, I wouldn&#39;t want that Pol, I mean you&#39;re quite wrong but at least you are answering people&#39;s queries with honesty and not hiding behind some anonymous log-in.

I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike&#39;s message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.

[lynx]

Speaking in general, not about any current situationExactly why I put this, it was a general observation not about the current thread. Sorry if you read it that way, pol.

[Snee]

I&#39;m cool with you, pol.

No need to resign, even tho&#39; we may not agree on this particular issue, I know you do what you think is right. Which is how it should be.

[j_man]

yeah pol, I agree with you too.

[pol]

Originally posted by lynx@13 July 2004 - 15:34

Speaking in general, not about any current situationExactly why I put this, it was a general observation not about the current thread. Sorry if you read it that way, pol.
no worries lynx, "bandwagons" are a bad term to use as i&#39;ve found out before, and i know that you&#39;re not one to jump on any without a reason

so i&#39;m not saying this is one, but when you said in general, and when i said earlier that not all of these kind of &#39;discussions&#39; imo are ligitimate, it just reminds me of things that could have been dealt with much better by pm

it&#39;s just my opinion that the reason for starting this thread had already been sorted, and then as usual it escalates into something else. the reason being to start this thread was to find out about what happened with the voting - that gets answered then it turns in to questions about banning, which i think are best left to the mods/admin

[DanB]

Originally posted by j_man@13 July 2004 - 16:52
yeah pol, I agree with you too.
Good 5th post :01:


i probably should post this in the serious section but it just slipped right into my mind right now before I go to bed

last year we had 3 members jayjawk Gutter and Porkshit who DID ALLOT worse then what Sam has (ask jetje) now all 3 of those members were allowed to come back with new accounts and were given second chances&#33;&#33;

Now some of you people probably don&#39;t know as you weren&#39;t on the board at the time but this time last year in Jule

Pork created an account called niggajaw and gutter jayhawk and pork shared the account and SPAMMED in EVERY single section of the forum with a thread tilted "Balamm is a bitch i want him to smack me and have BOT stick his dick in his asshole"

now tell me something

those 3 were let back (and yeah good there my mates, but where has jauhawk gone lately :( )

did Sam do worse then that???

I will post it here instead.

Thats a damn good point, so sticking with the rules again? :lol: :lol:


source (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=117940&view=findpost&p=1077207)

[lynx]

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 15:53
it&#39;s just my opinion that the reason for starting this thread had already been sorted, and then as usual it escalates into something else. the reason being to start this thread was to find out about what happened with the voting - that gets answered then it turns in to questions about banning, which i think are best left to the mods/admin
Very true.

But then again if someone starts a new thread they get the accusation "Why are you starting yet another thread, what was wrong with adding to the one about...".

You&#39;re damned if you do and you&#39;re damned if you don&#39;t. :bart:

[pol]

Originally posted by lynx+13 July 2004 - 16:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx &#064; 13 July 2004 - 16:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-pol@13 July 2004 - 15:53
it&#39;s just my opinion that the reason for starting this thread had already been sorted, and then as usual it escalates into something else. the reason being to start this thread was to find out about what happened with the voting - that gets answered then it turns in to questions about banning, which i think are best left to the mods/admin
Very true.

But then again if someone starts a new thread they get the accusation "Why are you starting yet another thread, what was wrong with adding to the one about...".

You&#39;re damned if you do and you&#39;re damned if you don&#39;t. :bart:[/b][/quote]

good point

but i think the problem with these latest ones is that it concerns a ban. tbh i dont think that ever will or should be a matter for members, for reasons such as .. not everyone knows a members warn level, popularity would come in to it etc etc <- there i had to say that again, or quote some rules

we&#39;re also damned for replying to topics, and damned if we dont

[CornerPocket]

Originally posted by manker +13 July 2004 - 09:14 --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker &#064; 13 July 2004 - 09:14 )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike&#39;s message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.[/b]

Best answered by lynx:
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 10:14

You&#39;re damned if you do and you&#39;re damned if you don&#39;t.[/quote]

It seems that despite whatever actions are taking, there will always be some controversy about it. Why are all mods not replying here, well the answer is simple and is stated/quoted many times over. It&#39;s the same old tune that gets sung when action is taken. I think that if you are mature enough to post/do wrong, then you should be mature enough to handle the action taken.

This is a neverending saga......................

[Tikibonbon]

Image Resized
Image Resized
[img]http://216.218.248.155/datastore/9a/b6/b/9ab6d389f0adae9a88dd22b060885292.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> (http://216.218.248.155/datastore/9a/b6/b/9ab6d389f0adae9a88dd22b060885292.jpg)


Look at the cute kitten.

[manker]

Originally posted by CornerPocket+13 July 2004 - 16:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CornerPocket @ 13 July 2004 - 16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by manker @13 July 2004 - 09:14
I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike&#39;s message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.

Best answered by lynx:
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 10:14

You&#39;re damned if you do and you&#39;re damned if you don&#39;t.

It seems that despite whatever actions are taking, there will always be some controversy about it. Why are all mods not replying here, well the answer is simple and is stated/quoted many times over. It&#39;s the same old tune that gets sung when action is taken. I think that if you are mature enough to post/do wrong, then you should be mature enough to handle the action taken.

This is a neverending saga...................... [/b][/quote]
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it&#39;s protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team&#39;s refusal to listen to the POV of some members.

Also there is not controversy with whatever actions are taken. There&#39;s been numerous bannings/moderations this past month without a single post in this section. In this case some members consider the mod team to be in error and are legitamately making their feelings known.

[DanB]

Manker can say everything I am thinking but ten times better :D

[jetje]

Originally posted by manker+13 July 2004 - 18:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (manker &#064; 13 July 2004 - 18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by CornerPocket@13 July 2004 - 16:38

Originally posted by manker @13 July 2004 - 09:14
I noticed quite a few mods are online yet the only reponse has been from you, Ike&#39;s message and a few flippant, throw away remarks from Error.

Best answered by lynx:
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 10:14

You&#39;re damned if you do and you&#39;re damned if you don&#39;t.

It seems that despite whatever actions are taking, there will always be some controversy about it. Why are all mods not replying here, well the answer is simple and is stated/quoted many times over. It&#39;s the same old tune that gets sung when action is taken. I think that if you are mature enough to post/do wrong, then you should be mature enough to handle the action taken.

This is a neverending saga......................
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it&#39;s protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team&#39;s refusal to listen to the POV of some members.

Also there is not controversy with whatever actions are taken. There&#39;s been numerous bannings/moderations this past month without a single post in this section. In this case some members consider the mod team to be in error and are legitamately making their feelings known. [/b][/quote]
you know what.....
your post is total bullshit :ghostface:

CP is right, this is a never ending story. There is always someone who disagrees the teams decission. And then there is always a wank....eh someone that post this kind of crap.

The decission, how sad it is, was a fair one. Sam4x got a fair chance. And with that he already got more then he probably deserved. It where his actions that forced us to step in, not the other way around. He already got more chances then anyone else. Too bad it went this way. :(


oh and about listening to the members, well to be honest...
Maybe we got a shitload of pm&#39;s in favor of banning sam4, because of his misbehaviour. :ph34r:

[manker]

Originally posted by jetje@13 July 2004 - 17:15
you know what.....
your post is total bullshit :ghostface:

CP is right, this is a never ending story. There is always someone who disagrees the teams decission. And then there is always a wank....eh someone that post this kind of crap.

The decission, how sad it is, was a fair one. Sam4x got a fair chance. And with that he already got more then he probably deserved. It where his actions that forced us to step in, not the other way around. He already got more chances then anyone else. Too bad it went this way. :(


oh and about listening to the members, well to be honest...
Maybe we got a shitload of pm&#39;s in favor of banning sam4, because of his misbehaviour. :ph34r:
OK. Thats clear enough. I&#39;ll mark you down as disagreeing with those that think the mod team should consider listening to member opinion on the treatment of Sam.

No need for the abuse, but I was impressed by your smiley usage.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by pol@13 July 2004 - 14:59
i&#39;ve no problem &#39;stepping down&#39; or &#39;resigning&#39; either, if it&#39;s what most people want then it&#39;s for the best. perhaps a poll for that would be better
Not at all. Like other people have said, you have taken the time to answer people&#39;s questions. We may not agree on this issue but that has no bearing on my (our) feelings that you are doing a good job.

Besides we can&#39;t have any more good team members resign. :lol:

[lynx]

Well, I&#39;ve got to say it.

Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.

Quite frankly, if you can&#39;t behave better than that you should be on moderation.

It&#39;ll never happen though, will it.

[CornerPocket]

Originally posted by manker@13 July 2004 - 10:56
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it&#39;s protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team&#39;s refusal to listen to the POV of some members.

Oh contrar, it is and always will be neverending..... regardless.

Mods refuse to listen to members? Mods are not here to act upon what members decide, we are here to act upon the action of members who fail to comply. In retrospect of your comment, you complain that we do not listen, why do members not listen to us?

Surely in any case actual evidence warrants actions and would overrule pov&#39;s, wouldn&#39;t you say. It&#39;s plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.

Again it doesn&#39;t seem to matter to the members whether or not something is done by us. Either way the Mod&#39;s are ridiculed from both sides of the field. That&#39;s a fact.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by CornerPocket@13 July 2004 - 16:47
It&#39;s plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.


To be honest, I am in the dark as to why Sam4 was banned. So many threads and posts and padlocks that I was never able to get the definitive story.

People have stated it was a conflict with Adster, but I read that thread and it was just trivial sparing, both were at fault, no big deal.

Then again, by the time I got there, Mods could have deleted the "bad stuff".

I would like a nice concise explanation so I can make an informed decision.

Forever is a mighty long time. I think banning is for people who are attempting to hurt the board and it&#39;s members (hypoluxa) or who are as crazy as a shit house rat and cannot stop spamming, hi-jacking and creating 20 accounts (IN).

I saw Sam4 as making an ass of himself as his biggest crime, never thought of him as out to hurt the board.

As I say, I don&#39;t know the facts, but would like to.

[manker]

Originally posted by CornerPocket+13 July 2004 - 18:47--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CornerPocket @ 13 July 2004 - 18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-manker@13 July 2004 - 10:56
No actually. This is not a never-ending saga, it&#39;s protractedness is brought about by what I see as the mod team&#39;s refusal to listen to the POV of some members.

Oh contrar, it is and always will be neverending..... regardless.

Mods refuse to listen to members? Mods are not here to act upon what members decide, we are here to act upon the action of members who fail to comply. In retrospect of your comment, you complain that we do not listen, why do members not listen to us?

Surely in any case actual evidence warrants actions and would overrule pov&#39;s, wouldn&#39;t you say. It&#39;s plain to see why action took place against the most recent member. It was plain as day amongst the board for all to see, witness, read, etc.

Again it doesn&#39;t seem to matter to the members whether or not something is done by us. Either way the Mod&#39;s are ridiculed from both sides of the field. That&#39;s a fact. [/b][/quote]
Au contraire, I meant that this situation isn&#39;t never ending, rather than a general disharmony between the mods and members.

Mods should listen to the members, it is beyond question. Who are you listening to if not the members?

I have already posted that according to the letter of the rules the mods have acted properly and that Sam did break the rules, again, what some members of the board are asking for is some leniency in this matter. To listen to what the majority of members have to say.

This is a different situation, normally the members agree with the mods and are not sad to see a member banned or moderated. This time some members believe the mods are in error. I&#39;m repeating myself but in the end perhaps my point isn&#39;t specifically about the Sam situation but more about the mod team seeking out, listening to and acting on what members have to say about certain situations.

Lastly the mods get ridiculed from both sides of what field? you mean the members and the admin ridicule the mods. I&#39;m at a loss with that comment.

[CornerPocket]

Then I must repeat myself, getting ridiculed from both sides = damned if we do, damned if we don&#39;t. There will always be some that agree and many that don&#39;t.

In my view it seems that members are almost always against actions that are taken vs agree (rarely does this happen), why is that, because they have no say as to what should be done? Why is it hard to accept what one gets because of their own action/fault.

You imply that mods should listen? What about members, should they not? Perhaps the concept of give a little, get a little would be a consideration. Listening should be done from both sides of the table, wouldn&#39;t you agree?

[jetje]

Originally posted by lynx@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I&#39;ve got to say it.

Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.

Quite frankly, if you can&#39;t behave better than that you should be on moderation.

It&#39;ll never happen though, will it.
well never expected such an answer from you...

but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i&#39;ve did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.

So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....

later

:)

[Cheese]

Originally posted by jetje+13 July 2004 - 19:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetje @ 13 July 2004 - 19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I&#39;ve got to say it.

Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.

Quite frankly, if you can&#39;t behave better than that you should be on moderation.

It&#39;ll never happen though, will it.
well never expected such an answer from you...

but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i&#39;ve did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.

So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....

later

:) [/b][/quote]
We have read the Team Chat logs.

[hobbes]

So you guys continue to argue, I didn&#39;t mean to interrrupt it above with a simple question.

As always, in the dark

Hobbes

[lynx]

Jetje, perhaps you should go back and reread your post, and ask yourself if you would like someone talking to you that way.

Obviously I don&#39;t know what you&#39;ve been doing in the background, but your public image (and you are not alone here) has often been one of arrogant superiority, and that is the only way we can judge you.

Collectively the mods seem to think that their&#39;s is the only opinion which matters. In fact it is the only one with any effective force, but that is a different being altogether. Ordinary members do not cry "foul" for no reason, particularly when the supposed crime seems to be so petty, and by no means one-sided or even the worst offender.

Manker has pointed out that there have been several moderations and bannings recently without so much as a murmur from the members. To me that indicates that the members by and large agree with the mods. Perhaps that means that their opinion when they do comment is even more important than the mods think.

[{I}{K}{E}]

see it from the other side:

WE cannot satisfy 100% of the members.
WE mods do our best to make this forum better every day.

WE put alot of time in this board and what do we get?
Angry replies because we dont do our job correctly? Come on this isnt our job this is a hobby for us. If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to &#39;enter&#39; this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money. because this isnt the situation please think that we are human and are doing our best to run this place smoothly.

ATM being a mod isnt as fun as it was. because of all what happend lately.

So I hope we all can have normal conversations again.
I am always open to chat with members that want to talk about the board or think they have idea&#39;s to improve it. etc... etc...

Ike


(did not wanted to make a new topic so I just posted this here because I wanted to say this.)

[DanB]

Originally posted by Withcheese+13 July 2004 - 20:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese @ 13 July 2004 - 20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by jetje@13 July 2004 - 19:35
<!--QuoteBegin-lynx@13 July 2004 - 19:43
Well, I&#39;ve got to say it.

Jetje, since you became a mod your attitude towards other board members stinks.

Quite frankly, if you can&#39;t behave better than that you should be on moderation.

It&#39;ll never happen though, will it.
well never expected such an answer from you...

but then again you probably followed me around the past 2 years ;) So you exactly know what i have been doing around here.
My attitude against other members has always been the same, fair honest and listening. 80% of what i&#39;ve did i did off board, pming and trying to fix things before they really broke.

So if a long timer like you, wich i respected thinks this way....
Well no moderation needed....

later

:)
We have read the Team Chat logs. [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sssh Cheese ;)

[Rat Faced]

I wasnt gonna reply to this post at all, but meh...

The best way to vote is always Secret Ballot, thats why there is a poll in Team Chat.

The Team Members can debate an issue until they are Blue in the Face, but at the end of the day there has to be a consensus.. A decision Made.

The Poll, is the only way to do this... if you try and "Follow the Posts", it wont work.

You will have people with strong views both ways, people on the fence and people not giving their opinion... It would be very difficult to actually follow how many want one thing, and how many another.

A Poll, therefore is the only way to do it.


Once a decision has been made; irrespective of your private views it should be followed... this is called "Collective Responsibility".

What im trying to say here is, sometimes you may attack Mods for something they say as a Mod... this is not necessarily the way they personally feel.


Its because of this i feel compelled not to speak out on this issue at all... its a wholley different issue to the one where I spoke out against Cely and HaXors banning....as I felt no "Collective Resonsibility" for that initial decision.


error

Publishing that list of votes in order, in effect took away MN&#39;s right to have his vote via Secret Ballot, which the rest of us enjoyed.

The fact that MN had already hinted strongly as to which way he voted is immaterial... everyone knows that it was 7:5 before he voted, they therefore know which way he voted.

You could just as effectively stated "JTR didnt post last" with a list of those that had voted in Alphabetical order... this way, it would have been upto him to say how he voted.

I would hope he&#39;d stay quiet on the subject though, unless everyone decides to make their vote public. If everyone does, i dont see the point in holding those discussions private in the 1st place.


everyone

We may disagree at times; however, I for one... have a great deal of respect for everyone on the Team and their opinions. I also know that I; and believe the Team members individually, do listen to those members that wish to PM and take account those views expressed in other ways.

[Cheese]

When they make the movie of this FST incident they should call it "The Thirteenth Vote." :lol:

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@13 July 2004 - 20:46
I wasnt gonna reply to this post at all, but meh...

The best way to vote is always Secret Ballet, thats why there is a poll in Team Chat.




I think the movie should be called,

The Case of the Secret Ballet.

http://www.dance-unique.com/images/gip_images/ballerina-white.jpg

I think I may have found out why the Mods decisions seem so strange at times ;)

[NikkiD]

Well I used to perform ballet, but I&#39;d hardly call it a secret. :unsure:

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:48
Well I used to perform ballet, but I&#39;d hardly call it a secret. :unsure:
I didnt know you performed Ballet with poles.... :blink: :unsure: :ph34r:

[NikkiD]

Bastard. :angry:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:51
Bastard. :angry:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
shhhh

My Dad might come in..... he&#39;s old and loaded, i dun wanna screw things up :ph34r:

[DanB]

Originally posted by Rat Faced+14 July 2004 - 00:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced &#064; 14 July 2004 - 00:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NikkiD@13 July 2004 - 23:51
Bastard. :angry:

:lol:&nbsp; :lol:&nbsp; :lol:
shhhh

My Dad might come in..... he&#39;s old and loaded, i dun wanna screw things up :ph34r: [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You got a small camera RF? :o :unsure:



edit - erm, thats not as personal as it sounds :ph34r:

[[B][O][T]]

Originally posted by Withcheese@14 July 2004 - 00:14
When they make the movie of this FST incident they should call it "The Thirteenth Vote." :lol:
"THE THIRTEENTH VOTE" (http://trimeg.bayair.net/preview.asp?t=The+Thirteenth+Vote%21&i=Sam+Sam+Sam+Sam)

BOT

[lynx]

Originally posted by {I}{K}{E}@13 July 2004 - 20:52
see it from the other side:

WE cannot satisfy 100% of the members.
WE mods do our best to make this forum better every day.

WE put alot of time in this board and what do we get?
Angry replies because we dont do our job correctly? Come on this isnt our job this is a hobby for us. If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to &#39;enter&#39; this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money. because this isnt the situation please think that we are human and are doing our best to run this place smoothly.

ATM being a mod isnt as fun as it was. because of all what happend lately.

So I hope we all can have normal conversations again.
I am always open to chat with members that want to talk about the board or think they have idea&#39;s to improve it. etc... etc...

Ike


(did not wanted to make a new topic so I just posted this here because I wanted to say this.)
No-one said it was easy.

But I take particular exception to this bit.

If we would get paid to do our job here or members need to pay to &#39;enter&#39; this community THEN you can shout what you want because then you can expect quality for your money.Do you think you are doing something extra special because you are doing it voluntarily instead of getting paid for it? Does it give you a right to do the job badly (I&#39;m not saying you do, just that you seem to be claiming that right).

Without the members, and in particular the regular members, this forum would be nothing. Yet you (collectively) seem to be claiming that members opinions count for nothing because they give you a hard time.

I can only say this: If you can&#39;t take the criticism stop making the decisions.

[{I}{K}{E}]

I just think that all the stuff lately that is thrown towards the mods is going a bit to far. If people disagree with actions made by a mod there is also another way of showing what your thoughts are instead of making a topic with agry smilies etc.. etc..

[Celerystalksme]

the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP &#33;&#33;&#33;

bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don&#39;t i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...

[ElvisLover]

Originally posted by Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP &#33;&#33;&#33;

bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don&#39;t i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
Thats a bit rich when everybody stood behind you when you were banned <_<


Surely if Sam uses another name that will just get banned too? :rolleyes:

[[B][O][T]]

:rolleyes:

[Tikibonbon]

Originally posted by Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP &#33;&#33;&#33;

bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don&#39;t i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
You are such a little whore......

[Celerystalksme]

Originally posted by Tikibonbon+14 July 2004 - 23:45--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tikibonbon @ 14 July 2004 - 23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Celerystalksme@14 July 2004 - 13:38
the thirteenth vote goes to me and i vote you all just SHUT THE FUCK UP &#33;&#33;&#33;

bitch at me all you want...like the mods & admins i don;t give a fuck...you think all your bitching will bring him back???...look where haxor is...actually he is here right now...just tell him to use one of his other names...case close...now you can all fuck off and return to the lounge...mods lock this please...if you don&#39;t i will report it a thousand times until you do it...the choice is yours...
You are such a little whore...... [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

btw a couple of things...no one takes what i say seriously in this part of the forum...and secondly not all people stood behind me when i was banned, i was backstabbed quite a bit...so don&#39;t jump to conclusion thinking you know all the facts...

[ElvisLover]

Didn&#39;t the pesky geppers back you up? :unsure:

[Celerystalksme]

Originally posted by ElvisLover@15 July 2004 - 00:17
Didn&#39;t the pesky geppers back you up? :unsure:
almost all of them...i think ;)

[DanB]

Still not back? :(



:01: SAM4 :01:

[Busyman]

I&#39;m with Cely on this one.

Sam is gone. Call it a day.

He&#39;s not dead from being banned...he&#39;s just banned. Go get a life.

I understand everyone wanting to find out why he was banned. Now ya know and still have a problem.

Some folks are thinking that if they make enough noise that the mod/admin team will backtrack and unban sam.

That would be a bad example in light of why he was banned.

I really don&#39;t understand the surprise tbh. People act like he did nothing wrong. Sorry your "friend" fucked up.

Mods have made mistakes (I been a victim myself) but this ain&#39;t one of &#39;em.

I don&#39;t think they need to get opinion of everyone for a ban either.
Dis ain&#39;t a vote for President.

If any of you cared you should have pm&#39;ed sam to chill out or whatever.

Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)

At the end of it all guess what............it&#39;s just the internet.

[namzuf9]

Originally posted by Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)


I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.



13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn&#39;t allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.

I know the rules
are not open to members own interpretation but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.

Could I ask what people think about that?

[DanB]

I think thats a good idea for the non evil ones :01:

[Snee]

Originally posted by namzuf9@14 July 2004 - 18:26
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.
Reminds me of the lounge, yesterday.

Both Hypo and Billy Dean. :)

[Busyman]

Originally posted by namzuf9+14 July 2004 - 13:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (namzuf9 &#064; 14 July 2004 - 13:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)


I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.



13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn&#39;t allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.

I know the rules
are not open to members own interpretation but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.

Could I ask what people think about that? [/b][/quote]
The only way for a mod to prove you are a banned member is:

1. IP address and it too would probably be banned or

2. Do some dumbshit like announce that you are said banned member.



The best thing to do is to come back with "internet plastic surgery" and answer only to your new member name. :lol: :lol:

Stop being so melodramatic, morons; it&#39;s the internet...

Work smarter not harder. ;)

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Busyman+15 July 2004 - 02:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 15 July 2004 - 02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by namzuf9@14 July 2004 - 13:26
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)


I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.



13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn&#39;t allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.

I know the rules
are not open to members own interpretation but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.

Could I ask what people think about that?
The only way for a mod to prove you are a banned member is:

1. IP address and it too would probably be banned or

2. Do some dumbshit like announce that you are said banned member.



The best thing to do is to come back with "internet plastic surgery" and answer only to your new member name. :lol: :lol:

Stop being so melodramatic, morons; it&#39;s the internet...

Work smarter not harder. ;) [/b][/quote]
For instance, a lot of people don&#39;t know this but Busyman and muchspl are the same person. :ph34r:

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Withcheese+14 July 2004 - 22:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese @ 14 July 2004 - 22:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Busyman@15 July 2004 - 02:24

Originally posted by namzuf9@14 July 2004 - 13:26
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)


I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.



13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn&#39;t allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.

I know the rules
are not open to members own interpretation but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.

Could I ask what people think about that?
The only way for a mod to prove you are a banned member is:

1. IP address and it too would probably be banned or

2. Do some dumbshit like announce that you are said banned member.



The best thing to do is to come back with "internet plastic surgery" and answer only to your new member name. :lol: :lol:

Stop being so melodramatic, morons; it&#39;s the internet...

Work smarter not harder. ;)
For instance, a lot of people don&#39;t know this but Busyman and muchspl are the same person. :ph34r: [/b][/quote]
.........and neither are banned pungbeech&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Busyman+15 July 2004 - 02:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 15 July 2004 - 02:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Withcheese@14 July 2004 - 22:35

Originally posted by Busyman@15 July 2004 - 02:24

Originally posted by namzuf9@14 July 2004 - 13:26
<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@14 July 2004 - 17:24
Don&#39;t feel sorry for sam...he&#39;ll be back, if he&#39;s not already back, and it will be by proxy. ;)


I thought about asking what would happen if he came back under a different name and behaved himself but then I re-read the rules.



13. Using another account to circumvent a moderation or ban isn&#39;t allowed. This will result in a ban of ALL your present and future accounts.

I know the rules
are not open to members own interpretation but if a banned member came back under a different name and behaved without causing a fuss about his/hers previous incarnation would that be too much of a problem?
The punishment of banning still stands as that person would of lost all past "crediblity"
and their online personality they built up would have been destroyed.
I can understand that some banned members would come back just to stir up shit but no amount of rules or even IP bans will stop that.

Could I ask what people think about that?
The only way for a mod to prove you are a banned member is:

1. IP address and it too would probably be banned or

2. Do some dumbshit like announce that you are said banned member.



The best thing to do is to come back with "internet plastic surgery" and answer only to your new member name. :lol: :lol:

Stop being so melodramatic, morons; it&#39;s the internet...

Work smarter not harder. ;)
For instance, a lot of people don&#39;t know this but Busyman and muchspl are the same person. :ph34r:
.........and neither are banned pungbeech&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry: [/b][/quote]
Good point.


Jonno B)

[muchspl2]

good thing I search for my name, wtf
why do you think we are the same

[Busyman]

Originally posted by muchspl2@14 July 2004 - 22:59
good thing I search for my name, wtf
why do you think we are the same
Uh huh..

I just gave myself advice on some game bargains in Gameworld. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[lynx]

Originally posted by Busyman@15 July 2004 - 02:24
Work smarter not harder.
Copyright IBM (It&#39;s Busyman&#39;s Mouth). :lol: