Minimum Cooling

[clocker]

Recently I began work on two servers for my brother.
Progress has come to a standstill because he is in China for two weeks, so I decided to do a little theoretical testing on Sprocket to keep myself occupied.

These servers will be operational 24/7 and, unlike Sprocket ( or your PCs too, I suspect), they will not be lovingly monitored and cared for.
Ruggedness and simplicity is the name of the game here and I'm trying to keep the cooling as minimal as possible- the fewer fans, the smaller the chance of failure and the less maintenance to perform.

Accordingly, I decided to see just how barebones I could make Sprocket and still maintain a reasonable cooling level.
My target was to keep full load temps under 50c.

We are seriously considering watercooling these servers as water offers not only a good cooling solution but also excellent noise reduction capabilities.
With twin Raptors in each unit there will be a lot of heat AND noise to contend with.
I have seen several methods of constructing water jackets for HDDs that I could easily make.

However, I have yet to watercool Sprocket's HDD, so just for a simple test I needed to add more heatload to my current waterloop. I have previously tried a waterblock on my northbridge, but I'm unconvinced that the bridge really gets very hot, so this time I decided to try the video card...a proven heat source.

It was pretty simple to attach the stock Thermaltake waterblock to the card and although the fittings were awkward ( I'd prolly change them were I to keep this setup, if not just get a purpose-built video block altogether), the loop was functional.

Prior to fitting the waterblock I was using a Zalman northbridge HS ( tall blue aluminum one) with a 120mm side intake fan to deal with the video card.
Temps were in the range of 28-30c with that setup.

Now I am aware that this is not a very accurate test of what the servers will be like...the Raptors are likely to put out a great deal more heat than my 9600XT card does, but then again, we won't be using a POS AquariusII water kit either and I was just trying out a concept here.

Last night was the first test.
I removed ALL the case fans.
The only fan ( excluding the PSU, which has two) is a 92mm working as exhaust on the radiator.
My CPU is slightly overclocked ( 210x 10.5) and also slightly undervolted ( 1.55v vs. stock 1.65v).
I ran Folding@Home to load the CPU.
Room ambient was in the 70's ( we are experiencing a heat wave here).
Here's what happened....
http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/fold.jpg
As you can see the delta v between the case (motherboard) temp and the CPU stayed consistent at around 22c and the CPU stayed below 50c.
The video card was at 36c when I checked this AM.

All in all, not too bad.
My next step is to prototype a HDD cooler and try that out.
That project could take a while, but I'll keep you posted.

[tesco]

So your trying to simulate what temps the two raptors will give you if you water cool your brother's servers? :blink: using a 9600xt. :blink:

:P

[Virtualbody1234]

I think you are looking at this in a way too complicated way. Just use a good CPU cooler and install good case ventilation. One 92mm exhaust fan or even 120mm if you really want. Let them run a little hotter than Sprocket and let them be.

[lynx]

I tend to agree with VB.

As you say, simplicity is what you are after. Water cooling is certainly not that.

Raptors are designed for high performance 24/7 running, you shouldn't need any special cooling for them either.

Far better (and cheaper) to go for high quality fans such as Panaflo or Papst, IMO.

[clocker]

Oh hell, you guys are no fun at all.

It would be boring to just throw a couple of fans in there and kick it out the door.

[Storm]

Originally posted by clocker@14 July 2004 - 03:16
Oh hell, you guys are no fun at all.

It would be boring to just throw a couple of fans in there and kick it out the door.
<_< then i vote you get 3 oempa-loempa&#39;s to wave your computer cool with a palmtree-leaf

[tesco]

Originally posted by Storm+13 July 2004 - 21:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Storm @ 13 July 2004 - 21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-clocker@14 July 2004 - 03:16
Oh hell, you guys are no fun at all.

It would be boring to just throw a couple of fans in there and kick it out the door.
<_< then i vote you get 3 oempa-loempa&#39;s to wave your computer cool with a palmtree-leaf [/b][/quote]
:lol:

[clocker]

An option I had not considered....hmmmm.

[lynx]

Ati X800 is total crap.


























That should bring along a few fanboys if you want to consider manual labour. :P

[tesco]

Originally posted by lynx@14 July 2004 - 03:44
Ati X800 is total crap.


























That should bring along a few fanboys if you want to consider manual labour. :P
The biggest fanboy (adamp2p) hasn&#39;t been around in a long time...

[clocker]

Time for update.
The parts for the first server ( such as it is) will all be here by tomorrow.
Now our only remaining purchase is the OS (Windows Server 2003 with extra 5 CAL) and that should be done today*.

Turns out that the office in California where this will be used is undergoing some renovation and part of the work includes converting an old storage area (read: closet) to a dedicated computer room. New AC ducting is being installed ( with filters) so the server will have it&#39;s very own (semi-) clean, cool space.

Accordingly, my plans for cooling the case have changed.

Obviously, there is no way to know until we run her if my solution will be adequate, but the initial config will be:

Lower front of case...120mm Sunon (intake)...metal case grill removed, but front plastic bezel remains stock as the intake venting appears large enough to be useful.

The motherboard wall has been skeletonized and a low profile Zalman 80mm fan installed inside the RH sidepanel (intake).
This is a mod that Sprocket has thrived with and , although somewhat contraversial, seems like cheap insurance to me. The back of the CPU socket, the northbridge and the mosfets all get airflow from this addition so how can it hurt?

On the LH sidepanel I&#39;m using one of my "speaker grill" tubes to mount a 92mm ( intake) fan...this will bring in outside air to the front of the motherboard and the HSF.

On the CPU (Barton core 2600+) we&#39;ll be using the stock AMD HS with an adaptor and 80mm fan.

The first case has already been so modified, and a quick and dirty mock up( case empty) shows that with the three case fans running on 12v ( noise isn&#39;t an issue) there is a very good amount of air flowing throgh the case and exiting the extensive punched grillwork on the back panel. This will change of course when the board and other components are installed, but I think it&#39;s a good base setup.

My only concern now is the Raptors...I have zero experience with them and opinion seems to be mixed as to whether they require any special cooling or not.
For now I&#39;m just going to install them in the stock mounting bracket and see what happens. I have a plan for special mounting should it be necessary, but it will be a lot easier to implement once all the other parts are installed and I can see just how much room I have to work with.

Minor additions to the board (NF7-S, rev2.0) include swapping out the POS ABIT northbridge HSF for a passive Zalman sink ( the tall blue one) and (possibly) some sort of cooling for the southbridge and SATA chips. I&#39;ll decide about the latter after it&#39;s up and running and I get an idea of how warm these things get.

I&#39;m quite looking forward to seeing how this works out.
I&#39;m getting the chance to try some new equipment (Raptors in mirrored RAID and a 400w Fortron PSU) and a different OS , so it&#39;ll be a learning experience.
I&#39;ll take some pics as the build progresses and let you know how it all turns out.


*OS purchased on eBay early this AM...not sure about delivery date right now.

[tesco]

Seems like a lot of extra work your putting into this...

it will run fine with all stock stuff and one exhaust fan, or zero exhaust fans if u want...

[Duffman]

Originally posted by clocker@21 July 2004 - 07:54

Now our only remaining purchase is the OS (Windows Server 2003 with extra 5 CAL) and that should be done today*.


uh huh

[clocker]

Originally posted by ROSSCO_2004@21 July 2004 - 11:45
Seems like a lot of extra work your putting into this...

it will run fine with all stock stuff and one exhaust fan, or zero exhaust fans if u want...
Well, this machine will not live the cossetted life that our personal PCs do.
Running 24/7 basically unattended, I felt that a bit of extra effort was called for.

Even assuming a decent payout for my efforts ( and I am), we are still far below the cost of a bottom line Dell server, so both he and I will be happy I hope.

I have always believed that computer manufacturers give shortshrift to the cooling of their products.
Although I heve tended to go to extremes on my personal machines, I think this particular computer reflects a good comprimise between a business tool and a pampered home rig.

I am shooting for a max normal temp of 45c or so.
I&#39;ll set the CPU warning level in BIOS at 50C and we&#39;ll see if it ever goes off.
I&#39;m betting it won&#39;t.

[Duffman]

i like that, not takeing the easy route, the road less traveled.

[clocker]

All parts have arrived in Boulder.
Waiting on OS to come before I go up and assemble this thing.
Should be here tomorrow, barring a disaster of some kind.

[lynx]

Installing the OS is almost the same as installing XP.

Get building, we want to see pics.

[clocker]

Originally posted by lynx@22 July 2004 - 12:00


Get building, we want to see pics.
Righto, boss.
Here is a teaser.
http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mobofilter.jpg

Image Resized
[img]http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-caseleft.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-caseleft.jpg')

Image Resized
[img]http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-bezel.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-bezel.jpg')
This is the Plain Jane, generic case, premodded and ready to go up to Boulder tomorrow.
You can see the gaping hole in the front for the 120mm fan and the "speaker tube" already in place on the LH sidepanel awaiting it&#39;s 92mm fan.
The RH sidepanel has a dust filter and a low profile 80mm Zalman fan to blow on the back of the mobo.

Careful viewers will note that I again have used the doorbumpers as casefeet and a USB port has been added to the very lower right corner of the bezel ( this is for the external backup drive).

Fooling around today I mocked up two alternative HDD mounting arrangements.
The holes are drilled and I&#39;ll see as the build progresses which of the three possible mounts works out the best.

Now I just have to wait.
And so shall you as I probably won&#39;t be back home till Saturday night or Sunday morn.

[tesco]

Originally posted by clocker@22 July 2004 - 18:30
Careful viewers will note that I again have used the doorbumpers as casefeet and a USB port has been added to the very lower right corner of the bezel ( this is for the external backup drive).
You installed the usb yourself?
Didn&#39;t know you could buy those ports. :unsure:

[clocker]

Sure, they come as a PCI slot cover with 2 USB ports.
Just remove from the metal slip and install where you will.
Cost about &#036;5 at Microcenter.

[clocker]

Well, did ya miss me?
Nevermind, I don&#39;t really want to know.
Either way, I&#39;m back.
The assembly of Server #1 is all done and it&#39;s been up and running since Friday night.
Yesterday (Saturday) was spent installing the OS ( Small Business Server 2003) and the various databases and files it will need.

Configuring the OS was a real learning experience for me...certainly showed how little I know about software and the Internet.
Fortunately, my brother knew what he was doing and ultimately we were successful.
We won&#39;t know till the end of August how good this machine will be at it&#39;s job.
It gets taken to California and installed on August 10th and then my brother goes to China for two weeks before returning to California. That&#39;s when I&#39;ll find out how well it has done.
For now, it is just running the Sandra burn in suite non-stop, monitored by MBM5.
As of last night ( after 4 hours of the stress tests) it had maxxed out at 39C and seemed very stable.
I&#39;ll get a progress report Monday morning when he goes back in to the office.
I don&#39;t expect any real issues to pop up, the build went smooth as silk and the cooling is working better than I had hoped.
It&#39;s actually quite easy to achieve good aircooling when noise is not an issue.
The machine is not horribly loud, but certainly would be unacceptable for home use. Sitting in it&#39;s own airconditioned closet in California they won&#39;t hear it at all.

The Raptors were a revelation...not noisy at all and (seemingly) VERY fast.
I want some for Sprocket.
I do have a question for someone who has set up a SATA RAID 1 (mirrored) array though.
I set the Raid up in BIOS and indeed, during post it shows the drives as a mirrored set.
In Windows though, Disk Management only shows one drive.
Is there a way to confirm that we are in fact running a mirrored array?

On the old server (Server 2000 with a SCSI RAID set), Disk Management shows TWO C drives.
Rick ( my brother) said that with the SCSI drives he set up the RAID in Windows.
We couldn&#39;t do that with the SATA drives...we HAD to do it in BIOS.

Is this a feature of SATA drives or have we screwed up somehow?
Any info would be appreciated.

Anyway, here are some pics of the PC as it ended up...
Image Resized
http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-guts1.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-guts1.jpg')
Image Resized
[img]http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-serverguts.jpg' width='200' height='120' border='0' alt='click for full size view'> ('http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-serverguts.jpg')

[i]attach usual disclaimer about my terrible photographic skills here...

As you can see, it was a pretty tight fit.
These cases originally held regular ATX boards not the modern extended type so the depth was shorter than I would have liked.
I wanted to mount the HDDs on the case floor, but they interfered with the video card, so this was my best alternate location that still allowed for decent airflow around the drives.
The 120x38mm Sunon fan on the front case wall ( barely visible...sorry) pushes a hurricane of air through the HDDs and past the video card. This air flows out the back of the case which has a lot of holes punched in it and is cool to the touch.

The stock 60mm AMD HS fan is mounted on nylon standoffs and blows over the southbridge and SATA chips at the bottom of the board.
An 80mm Sunon fan is on an adaptor and cools the stock AMD HS.
All fans are running on 12v.
Admittedly it is not as pretty as a home PC might be, but it is easily disassembled for maintenance which was more important in this case.
The wiring is not blocking the airflow at all...keep in mind that the HS and passive northbridge are getting fresh air from the sidepanel fan/duct (92mm Sunon) and don&#39;t rely on the front case fan for cooling.

So, there you have it.
Any info about the SATA RAID would be helpful.....

[Virtualbody1234]

I&#39;m not 100% sure about the RAID 1 setup but it sound like you have done the right thing. I have never setup RAID 1 but have done RAID 0. I had to use the configuration utility available at bootup to configure the RAID array. Only one drive showed up in windows.

I think your southbridge fan is completely unnessasary.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@25 July 2004 - 07:04


I think your southbridge fan is completely unnessasary.
Possibly...even probably.
But what&#39;s the harm?

[Virtualbody1234]

Your thread title suggests &#39;minimum&#39; and I figured you were looking for simplicity in design.

[clocker]

So true.

An excellent example of why we should be able to edit topic titles.

Besides, my definition of "minimum" is anything less than 10 fans.... :P

[Virtualbody1234]

Originally posted by clocker@25 July 2004 - 07:17
So true.

An excellent example of why we should be able to edit topic titles.

Besides, my definition of "minimum" is anything less than 10 fans.... :P
:lol: :lol: So how can you let this PC go with so few fans? :lol: :lol:

[clocker]

No room for any more.

It was painful.

[lynx]

You could have set up the drives in the sata config as a pair of independent drives. You would then have seen these in Windows as 2 drives, and could have allowed Windows to run software raid.

However, that is inefficient, why use software and the processor when you&#39;ve got a hardware chip there to do the job for you? I haven&#39;t looked into it with the Silicon Image controllers (I&#39;m assuming that&#39;s what you&#39;ve got), but a lot have monitoring software so you can find out what is happening in real time. There is a summary screen in Control Panel, but I&#39;m not sure what that looks like in a raid configuration.

Are you aware there has been a data corruption problem with Sil3112a and nForce2 motherboards, with multiple SATA disks? Make sure you&#39;ve got the latest motherboard bios to fix this problem.

[clocker]

Thanks, lynx.

We do have the latest BIOS and also the newest Silicon Image drivers for Server 2003.

[Sprocket]

Update.

Ran the Sandra burn in for 48 hours.
No errors or problems at all.

CPU average temp was 38c.
Gotta love an air cooled solution when noise is not a factor.

Now running Prime 95 for a 48hr. run to stress the memory.

[clocker]

First day priming....still sitting rock solid at 38c.
No errors.

I have e-mailed Abit and Silicon Image re: SATA setup.
My brother has a query in at the Microsoft newsgroup.
Someone should have a definitive answer.

[Duffman]

what happened to sprocket?

[clocker]

I had to sedate her.

The freedom was going to her head.

[Duffman]

bastard&#33;