Bowling For Columbine

[Crackedup]

I just watched this excellent film. An awsome and thought provoking piece of film documentary by Michael Moore, which covers the gun culture in the USA. Hadn't heard of it until it was mentioned on this board, but glad I watched it, as I found it to be compelling viewing. Very interesting, and worrying, comparisons between the US and Canada regarding gun related deaths. Instead of the normal Hollywood glamour action movie, this makes you think a little bit about what's really going on, particularly if you live in the US. I'm just glad we have so many restrictions on guns in most of Europe. I would be very interested to know how the film was received in the US and if it got a wide release in cinemas over there.

[miccheck1516]

hey, its michael moore, another brilliant film. I have to say some bits are very touching, truley one that is staying on my hard drive for a long time

[Jibbler]

This is a great movie. It seemed Michael Moore couldn't decide if he wanted to entertain people, or educate them. Either way, its still an excellent film, but it was not received well in the American markets. It made very little money here, but since it cost so little to make, I would say Mr. Moore is probably very happy with the results.--

Jibbler

[ahctlucabbuS]

:devil: burn, Charlton heston, burn! :devil:
:devil:

[johnnytightlips2]

i love this movie cuz it shows a hell of alot of guns and i specially like the cartoon.

[Chilly]

Never seen it but if you guys say its this good :o then i had better start looking for the hash ;)

I just saw the title ages ago and thought, Bowling? :unsure:


Never judge a book by its cover

[Cranky]

Entertaining movie, but it isn&#39;t factual. <_<

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/1209/059..._requestid=2372 (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/1209/059.html?_requestid=2372)

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

[johnnytightlips2]

some ppl might say it degredes the american culture but some ppl might say it really opens up ur mind to things going on inside usa.

[Benno]

Originally posted by Chilly@23 March 2003 - 03:29
Never seen it but if you guys say its this good :o then i had better start looking for the hash ;)

I just saw the title ages ago and thought, Bowling? :unsure:


Never judge a book by its cover
You better hurry up now. :devil: :devil:

IMHO this movie is a must see.

[hellraiser]

Did you see how he was bood of stage last night at the Oscars?

[Skillian]

I thought it was about half cheers, half boos. But you know at an event like the Oscars a speech like that might not go down too well - probably a lot of people friendly with Bush at that event.

But yeah, recommended to all - this is a great film/documentary.

[KevT]

Originally posted by hellraiser@24 March 2003 - 17:37
Did you see how he was bood of stage last night at the Oscars?
As he should of been.

[ahctlucabbuS]

Well a lot of the acters have taken a stand against the war, and the ppl who booed prolly was some stupide rich folks anyway. Wtf would they know about how the innocent ppl in iraq are feeling just about now.
I must admit I`ve been really anti-american lately, but Moore shows that there actually are sencible people over there as well

[Jibbler]

Ok folks, lets get back on topic. The link provided earlier, can&#39;t remember by who, to Forbes.com, is all bullshit. One must take into account the sources, in this case, an entertainment magazine, where there are no sources referenced. I could make a webpage about the president being gay, but that still doesn&#39;t make it a fact. There are always critics willing to point out his mistakes, but no one rewards his accuracy in other areas.

I really enjoyed this film, and I&#39;m a big fan of Michael Moore, but the stunt he pulled at the Oscars was uncalled for. I&#39;m really tired of people in hollywood using their time on stage as some sort of soapbox. The Oscar stage is not there for political gain, but instead should be used as a tool for exploring the winners, their thought process, etc...

[Cranky]

Originally posted by Jibbler@25 March 2003 - 01:36
Ok folks, lets get back on topic. The link provided earlier, can&#39;t remember by who, to Forbes.com, is all bullshit. One must take into account the sources, in this case, an entertainment magazine, where there are no sources referenced. I could make a webpage about the president being gay, but that still doesn&#39;t make it a fact. There are always critics willing to point out his mistakes, but no one rewards his accuracy in other areas.

I really enjoyed this film, and I&#39;m a big fan of Michael Moore, but the stunt he pulled at the Oscars was uncalled for. I&#39;m really tired of people in hollywood using their time on stage as some sort of soapbox. The Oscar stage is not there for political gain, but instead should be used as a tool for exploring the winners, their thought process, etc...
People choose to believe what they want to, even if it&#39;s right in front of their eyes. If you would have bothered reading the second link I provided you would realize it had MANY links to prove the points stated. I admit the movie was entertaining, but to say it&#39;s fact and Michael Moore is revealing truths is bullshit.

[Infested Cats]

Originally posted by Cranky@24 March 2003 - 20:10
People choose to believe what they want to, even if it&#39;s right in front of their eyes. If you would have bothered reading the second link I provided you would realize it had MANY links to prove the points stated. I admit the movie was entertaining, but to say it&#39;s fact and Michael Moore is revealing truths is bullshit.
Granted, like you say, people have the right to choose their own opinion, but I believe these articles were written because of last night (the oscars) in order to discredit him. They dont want him to have validity.

[DigiCowboy]

Moore should move to Iraq so he can support the scum that run the country. I now will NEVER watch that movie or spend a dime on any movie he has anything to do with. How soon we forget ..... WWII, Hitler and more recently 9/1/01.

Go KevT&#33;

DigiCowboy

[Cranky]

Originally posted by Infested Cats+25 March 2003 - 02:27--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Infested Cats @ 25 March 2003 - 02:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cranky@24 March 2003 - 20:10
People choose to believe what they want to, even if it&#39;s right in front of their eyes.&nbsp; If you would have bothered reading the second link I provided you would realize it had MANY links to prove the points stated.&nbsp; I admit the movie was entertaining, but to say it&#39;s fact and Michael Moore is revealing truths is bullshit.
Granted, like you say, people have the right to choose their own opinion, but I believe these articles were written because of last night (the oscars) in order to discredit him. They dont want him to have validity. [/b][/quote]
Both of those articles were written months ago. What he did last night just reaffirms, with me anyway, what an idiot he really is. :)

[Infested Cats]

Originally posted by Cranky@24 March 2003 - 20:43
Both of those articles were written months ago. What he did last night just reaffirms, with me anyway, what an idiot he really is. :)
How could http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html be months old, if it mentions the latest developments (the oscars).
These articles just support a fanbase of "Anti-Moore."

[Cranky]

Originally posted by Infested Cats+25 March 2003 - 02:46--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Infested Cats @ 25 March 2003 - 02:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cranky@24 March 2003 - 20:43
Both of those articles were written months ago.&nbsp; What he did last night just reaffirms, with me anyway, what an idiot he really is.&nbsp; :)
How could http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html be months old, if it mentions the latest developments (the oscars).
These articles just support a fanbase of "Anti-Moore." [/b][/quote]
Didn&#39;t realize he updated it. But I&#39;ve had that link for months now. Heck I posted it before the Oscars. The content is the same other than the Oscar commentary. ;)

[Schmiggy_JK23]

No... whats shame is that hollywood is decisively "liberal", which for the most parts equates "anti war"... if you follow strict politics.

And if you noticed... there were far more boos then the cheers... clearing showing he was over stepping his boundary there.

[Skillian]

I don&#39;t think being booed means he was overstepping a boundary - I&#39;d rather see that than polite subdued clapping as people says thanks to God and their mum.

[EnJoi]

i loved this movie thjis goes next to SCARFACE and Fifth EleEmnT god i love the its a wonderful life scene man i ddnt know about US and its weapons and creating our own enemies man and the gun kills jeez canadas a ok choice to live

[sred2003]

i havent seen this movie but im sure it is good. michael moore makes
entertaining films/documentaries. i saw someone earlier in this post
say that it wasnt recieved well here in the U.S. because it didnt make much
money. that is not true. NO documentaries make as much money as normal
movies. but he recieved critical acclaim since its release and it did very well
as far as documentaries go. as for his speech last night...
not cool. funny though to see him get boo&#39;ed. he could have said
anything about peace but he just attacked president bush.
i expect nothing less than that from moore. he is never affraid to
push the envelope. i just disagree with him on the issue.

p.s. he makes a movie about guns and i cant help but imagine him
in a hunters vest. he would look like every other hick in the south
drinking beer and shooting at deer, accidently hitting his buddy.


i loved this movie thjis goes next to SCARFACE and Fifth EleEmnT
fifth element? that movie was horrible.

[ahctlucabbuS]

Originally posted by DigiCowboy@25 March 2003 - 02:40
Moore should move to Iraq so he can support the scum that run the country. I now will NEVER watch that movie or spend a dime on any movie he has anything to do with. How soon we forget ..... WWII, Hitler and more recently 9/1/01.

Go KevT&#33;

DigiCowboy
You know that the war against Iraq doesn`t have much to do with "war on terror". Saddam wasn`t a threat before the attack, he have been calm for many years now (not that I support the bastart, you people just sees all in black and white: " You`re either with us or against us", now that is a stupid quote from a stupid man). The UN inspectors didn`t find much of interest now did they? Bush is just after Saddam personally (and perhaps the damn oil) and doesn`t care how many civilian lives get lost in the process. Funny how some countries lives is worth more than others.....

anyone who say that guns isn`t a problem in the us need to open theyre eyes if you compare the facts with other countries.

Go see Bowling for Columbine, great movie :P

[sred2003]

You know that the war against Iraq doesn`t have much to do with "war on terror". Saddam wasn`t a threat before the attack

the war against iraq has everything to do with the war on terror.
you dont have to believe that, and if you dont see it then i obviously am not
going to change your mind. but remember that paying money to the families
of palestinian suicide bombers is supporting terror. just one example out of many.

[sred2003]

clinton didnt do anything the entire time he was in office.
terrorists never thought we would rock there world the way bush is doing.
because clinton didnt do anything when they attacked us over and over.
they blew our embassy they tried to take down the world trade center in 93
they attacked the uss cole and numerous other attacks and clinton did nothing.
he was also offered bin laden 3 different times by countries that would have
given him to us and he said no thx. get real. clinton was useless.

[johnnytightlips2]

im not saying that bush is bad cuz i support his idea as along as he or his country doesnt mess with sri lanka. clinton didnt do that much so i guess it was good for him to go.

[Wallace_Askew]

To sum up, Bush is an evil bastard and Michael Moore is a great american. anyone interested should check out his newset book "Stupid White Men". Oh and by the way...Clinton was the best president since Carter.

[sred2003]

Clinton was the best president since Carter.

JIMMY CARTER A GOOD PRESIDENT?
LMAO

as far as clinton goes, ppl need to realize the difference between a likable guy
and a great president.

[ahctlucabbuS]

Clinton was a great president. As far as I know he worked A LOT harder than lazy ass Bush. No wonder Dick Cheney is more known than Al Gore was as vice-president...
Bush didn`t even win the damn election. So bassically USA today have a non democratic voted president in office that bombs the world&#33;
Land of the free eh?

[sred2003]

Clinton was a great president. As far as I know he worked A LOT harder than lazy ass Bush.

i guess your knowledge doesnt go very far. clinton worked hard?
lazy ass bush? lol
i think fighting the war on terror is doing something. clinton was too busy
getting head from fat interns in the oval office. i would say he was too lazy
to get a hotel. then maybe he wouldnt have gotten caught.

[harrycary]

Bowling for Columbine is propaganda. Period.
I am reminded how "pro wrestling" was considered a "sport" not to long ago and now it is called "sports entertainment". Whatever you need to validate your feelings on the matter.
Michael Moore takes video footage and edits it to his own liking. Did anyone see the clothing change made in the middle of Charlton Hestons speech? Why it&#39;s a miracle I say&#33; (*rolls eyes)
Michael Moore makes movies that make the upper middle class feel better about themselves.
I&#39;ve read the article (http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6841) by Mike Dunnigan. He makes several valid points against Michael Moore. Better still, he references a side by side (http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html) comparision of his version and the actual transcript of Charlton Hestons" speech shown in the movie.
What a liar Michael Moore is. He&#39;s created a nice piece of fiction in Bowling for Columbine.

For the record. I don&#39;t belong to the NRA and have never owned a gun.

I just don&#39;t like being deceived so blatantly. I feel sorry for those who actually believe everything in this movie. It&#39;s amazing how quick editing and cutaways can so distort reality.

[imported_stg1123]

downloading it now...looking very forward to it.
I dont have tv so i had to watch the oscars via the live webcam in the pressroom through Oscars Website (http://www.oscars.com) but he gave a cool interview to the press and we heard his outburst on the stage.
The truth is very hard to really uncover, its become quite a political thread but If I can add my 2 cents I think we have to seperate between the political and finiancial reasons behing the battle and what is in reality An absolute madman in the form of Sadaam who must be destroyed for good&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :ph34r:

[odiesmom]

Barky is just yanking people&#39;s chains...nobody could be so ignorant, or could they?? Clinton had no guts.. he was a smooth talking womanizer (with really BAD eyesight too, I might add). I agree with you sred2003. People that are ashamed of our country, our president or have such anti-american feelings need to take all of their Michael Moore movies & Dixie Chicks cds and move to Iraq. (But don&#39;t plan on being able to watch or hear them...) but then again, after the country is freed from that Hitlerish monster Sadaam, you Might get a chance to do that afterall&#33;

[sAdam]

i feel kinda obligated to let u all know a bit about canada considering the way moore pertrayed it as some kind of fear free utopia. first of all, what a crock of shit. every time i turn on the news i&#39;m reminded that toronto has become the epicenter, and vancouver the entry point of SARS (severe acute respiratory sickness) in North America. second. i don&#39;t know where moore found that canadian "ghetto" or whatever the fuk he called it, but i&#39;d like to take him on a little tour of the Jane and Finch area of Toronto, or maybe the downtown east side in Vancouver (my home town).

The rest of the movie was kinda disjointed crap IMHO. he (moore) kept flipping around on whether it was a race issue, or a socio-economic issue, or a media issue as to what caused high rates of gun violence.
Also, beating a 70+ year old, alzheimers afflicted Charlton Heston in a debate is like me kicking Moore&#39;s fat ass in a foot race. it just aint fair.

i did like the Nichols brother though. that dude was way out of his friggin mind.

[clocker]

It seesm obvious from running down this tread that Michael Moore achieved exactly what he intended- get people thinking. I thought that the film was very good and was surprised to realize at the end that the most coherent interviewee in the whole movie was Marilyn Manson&#33; Who&#39;s a thunk it?

[jetje]

Every year we hear about shootings at schools in the US of A and sometimes some other countries (france and Germany last year). Kids go to school with their or their parents guns just shooting people. We hear about shooting incidents on work, employees that are very upset, drive home take a gun drive back and shoot some. Don&#39;t say it&#39;s not.. THIS HAPPENS.

A lot of these incidents could have prevent if people didn&#39;t have guns in the 1st place. I know it&#39;s a big issue in the states, to protect yourself. To bad some people doesn&#39;t see they protect theirselves (and their loved ones) better if they have no possibility to use a gun.

Think this is a bit what MM wan&#39;t to say. No linking to the Iraq war in this film, so leave that out of the discussion.
I agree on what Clocker said, the guy made that people talk and think about this subject again.

[clocker]

I&#39;m always amazed ( and saddened) when I read about some minor incident that ends up with gunplay. Why are people carryings guns all the time anyway? I&#39;ve lived in several large cities, and not necessarily in the best parts of them either, and never once felt like I needed the "protection" of a firearm. I thought that the most telling segment of Bowling For Columbine came right at the beginning- the bank that gave rifles away as an incentive to open an account. As he walks out holding his new gun Moore asks," doesn&#39;t it occur to you that giving people guns in a bank is a bad idea?" ( Or something like that). We already make it so easy that anyone with a pulse can drive a car and any zipperhead with money can purchase a weapon, I think if Bush were really serious about "weapons of mass destruction" he&#39;d have to look no further than across the street from the White House. We&#39;re just bloody nuts here.

[clocker]

As long as I&#39;m up on my high horse( what a great view&#33;)...
sAdam-
The NRA WANTED Charleton Heston to be their spokesman and he accepted the position. So if MM went to that organization&#39;s mouthpiece and he comes across as an idiot, who&#39;s fault is that? And what does " fair" have to do with it? If the NRA wants to cash in on Heston&#39;s charisma and public persona then I think they have to live with the consequences of their choice.

[Jibbler]

I&#39;m a big fan of Michael Moore, and a bigger fan of the NRA. I realize that the NRA chose Heston as their spokesperson, but after watching his interview at the end of the film, I&#39;m very disappointed. He seemed very "unprepared" for the interview, and I was shocked that he didn&#39;t have more to say. He didn&#39;t even put up a good fight.

[clocker]

A fan of Michael Moore AND the NRA, eh Jibbler? An interesting combination, Michael Moore is a fan of the NRA also, isn&#39;t he? Oh well. if Oldiesmom has her way let&#39;s meet in Baghdad and discuss it. I&#39;ll bring the Dixie Chicks CDs, you bring the beer...

[Jibbler]

That sounds fair clocker&#33; I&#39;ll bring the beer and the buds&#33;

I&#39;m a fan of Michael Moore, which is to say that I&#39;m a fan of educated people who take the time to challenge wrong and right. I&#39;m a fan of the NRA, because they help protect the rights of Americans to possess firearms and they promote responsible use of firearms.

[clocker]

You&#39;re on&#33; I&#39;m sure we&#39;ll have hours of fun as I can tell we disagree about some things already, but we&#39;ll save that for Iraq. I prefer Newcastle Brown Ale and I&#39;ll supply the EZWiders. Hope we can get a fast internet connection there...

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Say what you want about firearms causing problems.

Currently in the states, every state that allows concealed weapons, (of course, with serious back ground checks, no felonies, and minor misdemeanors allowed, and training,) the violent crime rate has dropped since it went in to affect.

???

Whats this? You mean all these weapon owners werent running around "popping caps in everyones ass"? Nope. Its called deterence...

Say what you will about not needing guns. So be it. But in this country, the right to bare arms was faught for, and is guarenteed by our constitution. And in those countries that dont have this... if for some odd reason, and pray that it doesnt, a need for such defense comes, (lord knows it wont be some invasion, cuz we would prolly be there bialing whosever ass out anyhow), what will you do then?

You have to take the good with the bad. People are always going to find ways to harm each, guns or no guns. Banning guns isnt the solution to world peace, and ridding ourselves of violent crime. And when you do, what does it get you, an even bigger black market for weapons.

[clocker]

I don&#39;t recall Michael Moore ever saying he wanted to ban guns, either in the movie or the several interviews I&#39;ve seen the past couple of months. Nor have I said that either. I think the point of the whole movie was not so much about the right (or not) to bear arms as why is it that we Americans seem to be so enamored with killing each other with them. He points out that several other countries have just as many weapons as we do yet their death rate due to firearms is but a fraction of ours. Have you guys even watched this flick?

[ahctlucabbuS]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23
Say what you will about not needing guns. So be it. But in this country, the right to bare arms was faught for, and is guarenteed by our constitution. And in those countries that dont have this... if for some odd reason, and pray that it doesnt, a need for such defense comes, (lord knows it wont be some invasion, cuz we would prolly be there bialing whosever ass out anyhow), what will you do then?


And that is Michal Moores point. Fear and anxiety causes people to purchase a firearm. Then if these terrified people comes across a potentional dangerous situation ( or something that terrifies them) they go straight for theire guns, which might just (and often do I guess) make things worse. Not to mention all the extra risk you`re getting simply by having a gun in your house, Like a child getting hold of it (and causing damage by accident or deliberately as in the case of the columbine shooting incident). I`d be more frightened from that scenario than someone suddenly breaking into my house and starting shooting at me. Might even be a greater probabillity of those scenarios in the latter bracket happening, what do I know?

As for your constitution, maybe that`s part of the problem if you compare the statistic of the USA with other countries as Moore did.

Guns is never a solution&#33;

[kildred11]

Liberal at its best and it just shows you that they dont care about the issue at hand. Only who is in office matters. If Moore thinks this war is evil then why isn&#39;t he protesting against Saddam. Oh I know because Bush is a Republican and if Saddam can send people through meat grinders and their families for being related it is ok because he isnt Bush. This is why the Democrats loose ground in the elections, because the silent majority has more common to fall victom to liberal lies and twists. Guess I know what the liberals will say to this. :D

[clocker]

I must have the Readers Digest version of Bowling for Columbine because in the version I have Michael Moore DOESN&#39;T EVEN MENTION IRAQ&#33;&#33; I&#39;d love to discuss anyone&#39;s opposing views about the movie, but all this extraneous crap about Saddam Hussien and Bush is completely irrelevant. I ask again...have you guys even seen this movie? :angry:

Killdred11...It&#39;s a good thing that you know what the liberals will say to you cause they sure as hell won&#39;t be able to figure out what you just said to them.

[Crackedup]

Looks like I opened a can of worms with my original post........as I always say there&#39;s nothing like a mass debate :rolleyes: lol

[clocker]

Hey, Crackedup since clearly you&#39;re one of the few people who have seen this movie, would you care to join Jibbler and me in Baghdad and discuss it further? We&#39;ve got the beer and music covered, so you can bring food (lots of Oreos if Jibbler comes through with the weed)

[Crackedup]

I always wanted to go to the Baghdad Hard Rock Cafe, but it closed because of desert storm...... I&#39;m not sure if I want to go there now, as I don&#39;t exactly agree with what&#39;s going on there. Just out of interest you mentioned Newcastle Brown before. Are you an American by birth who just happened to stumble across one of the world&#39;s great beers, or are you an ex-pat Geordie?

[clocker]

I spent several seasons in Britain and Europe as a mechanic on motorcycle roadrace teams. I&#39;ve certainly done my share of stumbling, but I know great beer when it&#39;s thrown at my face :lol:

[Crackedup]

I see. Glad you enjoyed the film, and that you are obviously a knowledgeable beer drinker&#33; :D

[clocker]

Come to think of it, Michael Moore looks like he&#39;s enjoyed a beer or 20 himself, doesn&#39;t he? :lol:

[Crackedup]

Yes, perhaps he dranks loads whilst out with the NRA&#33;? Nice chatting - I&#39;m off for zzzzzzzzzzzz&#39;s now as it&#39;s 03.20 here in Spain :huh:

[StEpS]

(Just my opinion, don&#39;t take it personal)
I believe Mike Moore was just trying to get a point across in the best way , that guns are always going to be a bad thing when in the wrong hands and now-a-days its very easy to get a gun no matter who you are. Innocent people DIE EVERY DAY because of guns, not just in the US, but in Canada too....I&#39;ve had a gun pulled on me in Scarborough Ontario (Canada), i saw a man get shot for saying the wrong thing at McDonalds drive-thru, 2 mins from where i live, a blind man was shot in his own home 4 doors down from my house, and basically GUNS = FEAR.....just like Mr. Moore was tryin to point out, i can&#39;t just walk the streets and pick a fight anymore.....it seems there is no such thing as a fist to fist battle anymore. People who fear that they can&#39;t protect themselves with there fists, get guns to do the job for them. War in Iraq, whatever......there is a fuckin war on the streets within our own countries, among our own people, we need to get rid of these guns. Too many little punks on the streets that hold guns and don&#39;t even have half a brain in there head. Thats just askin for a disaster&#33;&#33;&#33;
Anyways, all that Mike was tryin to do was make a point, some things were not true, but also some WERE&#33;&#33;
Peace, StEpS

[clocker]

One of the movie&#39;s most telling points is that as the crime rate has steadily decreased, media attention to crime has RISEN&#33; So I think you have it backwards stEps...FEAR=GUNS.