Fabric Of Space

[Chame1eon]

what is it? spandex?
no really what is it? how can you describe something 3d as 2d fabric anyway?

[ziggyjuarez]

Im smart!
it;s the thing that make's up life :01:

[manker]

fabric isn't 2d :blink:

Edit: I misread this thread and thought the poster was asking what spandex was. Um. My answer is still good though, I think...

[Chame1eon]

Originally posted by manker@7 August 2004 - 08:57
fabric isn't 2d :blink:

Edit: I misread this thread and thought the poster was asking what spandex was. Um. My answer is still good though, I think...
well ok it's not, but it's pretty thin

[ziggyjuarez]

:sleeping:

[manker]

It sure is.

No-one knows the answer to your question but there is a school of thought that thinks that mainly the fabric of space is made up mostly of an invisible, almost magical, substance called dark matter which accounts for over 95% of the total mass of the universe.

[Snee]

Can't the word fabric metaphorically merely be used as a way to say constituents?
Sort of like the components in a weave or so.

I thought so.

Any way, it's damned hard to say.

It's a symphony played on super-strings, sorry super-rings, no wait, a membrane. Floating in the macroverse, or not.

It's also particles, atoms, photons, electrons, quarks.

And a projection of something else :unsure:

[Chame1eon]

Originally posted by SnnY@7 August 2004 - 09:19
Can't the word fabric metaphorically merely be used as a way to say constituents?
Sort of like the components in a weave or so.


:lol: :frusty: :lol: i can't believe i didn't think of it htat way.
well what is was thinking of was a part of a show that i saw a long time ago. they said a black hole might be a bend in the fabric of space and to illustrate they put a ball on a trampoline and showed how a marble would roll towards the bigger ball. That's why i was thinking of something flat :lol: . anyway i just don't see how that would work on something that doesn't have a surface.
i htought a black hole was jsut something that was so dense it had enough gravity to pull ohter things into it. what's bending

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Chame1eon+8 August 2004 - 12:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chame1eon @ 8 August 2004 - 12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SnnY@7 August 2004 - 09:19
Can&#39;t the word fabric metaphorically merely be used as a way to say constituents?
Sort of like the components in a weave or so.


:lol: :frusty: :lol: i can&#39;t believe i didn&#39;t think of it htat way.
well what is was thinking of was a part of a show that i saw a long time ago. they said a black hole might be a bend in the fabric of space and to illustrate they put a ball on a trampoline and showed how a marble would roll towards the bigger ball. That&#39;s why i was thinking of something flat :lol: . anyway i just don&#39;t see how that would work on something that doesn&#39;t have a surface.
i htought a black hole was jsut something that was so dense it had enough gravity to pull ohter things into it. what&#39;s bending [/b][/quote]
In your trampoline analogy the surface is two dimensional (or intended to be).

When they put the bowling ball on it bends the two dimensional space into a third dimension.

Think of it that way. The bend in the fabric of space happens in another dimension which you cannot perceive directly.

Remember there are lots of things you cannot perceive directly, the simplest examples are sounds which are outside of your hearing, or wavelengths of light which you cannot see.

[Snee]

I think it might be easier to think of the universe as a big blob or something if you&#39;re not to used with the concept of a few more dimensions.

When space gets bent it&#39;s sort of as if the black hole is pulling on surrounding parts of the blob that is the universe, so that the area closest to the hole gets more dense.

Now as there isn&#39;t much in the way of visible matter in the universe it&#39;s gets a bit odd I suppose as there is no actual increase of its density, but what happens is that locations of the blob that used to be distant from one another, and in some ways still are, are now closer to each other as it seems for objects moving through these areas.

It sort of distorts space, and even effects light passing through. For instance, if there is a star on the other side of a black hole seen from our point, the hole eats the light that might be going our way.

At the same time light that was going to the left and right of us will alter course before it escapes the pull of the hole, meaning the we may see two stars, where the one star should be.

Looking back at this it isn&#39;t very clear, but I hope you get the idea.

EDits: spelling, minor clarification.

What the hey :blink:

Did I spend ten minutes posting that?
When I started JP hadn&#39;t posted. :unsure:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by SnnY@8 August 2004 - 12:39

Did I spend ten minutes posting that?
When I started JP hadn&#39;t posted. :unsure:
Indeed mate.

You have been writing that post since before 01/01/2003.

It&#39;s a space time sort of doohicky.

[Snee]

Food for thought, that. :huh:

Damn I&#39;m slow, now I get it :D :lol:

[Chame1eon]

that makes sense i would be interesting to know hte details though

[Snee]

Originally posted by Chame1eon@8 August 2004 - 21:34
that makes sense i would be interesting to know hte details though
Exactly how much of the details? :huh:

&#39;Cos there&#39;s enough math to it to fill a bible. That is, if you want to learn about how everything works.


A black hole tho&#39;...this (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/black_holes.html) is a good point to start I suppose.

And for one to be created you need (like it says) a star at least ten times bigger than the sun.

When it goes out it swells up (I think, the sun will do this, but unlike the sun...) then it will collapse, and at the same time release energy, the energy that goes out is a supernova and what remains behind is a black hole (any bodies orbiting the former star will also be a part of the black hole at this point, if it swelled up before its collapse).

Now, when a star of that size collapses, its weight remains behind but its volume gets much smaller, increasing its density to "infinity" (not strictly true, but it will have to do) it will have the same gravitational influence the star had on its surroundings but much more focused. Giving it a greater tendency to drag anything in that would have otherwise orbited a star of the same mass. Everything that goes in will naturally add to its gravitational pull.

Everything large enough, including you and I, influences the surrounding world with the gravitational pull of our mass. Even particles have a certain gravitic pull, and are attracted to one another. However, the greater the pull, the greater the influence and when it comes to a black hole...it&#39;s pulling at the walls (if we see the universe as a contained space) and everything else.


Now since "everything else" includes a lot more than you and I could possibly fathom, the effects of a black hole are very hard to explain in full. Basically, to try and illustrate it, you&#39;d have to be able to imagine a universe that exists not in the three dimensions you think it does, but in eleven dimensions. (According to this (http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/dimens.html) it might be twelve dimensions, or we might even have to do away with the concept of fixed dimensionality.)

And, to make it even harder, we have m-theory (the eleventh dimension) which says that our universe exists in a macrospace, m-space, which also contains a possibly infinite number of other universes, giving us a reality where everything that could possibly happen, happens somewhere, according to m-theory, gravity, the gravity of us, and our black hole, is actually tunneled over from another universe. In that universe, gravity is a much stronger force, so much stronger in fact that that universe cannot contain it, and bleeds it over to our universe attaching it to everything here.

And, just for fun, we might add the theory of the projected universe. According to Hawking, you see, no information is never lost (information here mening the structure of quarks and such, I think) but since a black hole compresses matter the way it does, this is said to be impossible, everything can&#39;t be stored in a black hole, it&#39;d have to be on the surface, and there&#39;s finite space available on the surface.

So therefore, some scientists say, our universe, and all the particles in it, must be a projection of something that exists on another plane, so that any information seemingly lost here, still exists on that other level.


Then there are these other objects in space, theoretical as of yet I think, called white holes, these are the opposites of black holes, in that they pump out matter and energy, rather than suck it in.

Whether white holes are black hole stuck on reverse, or at the other end of a tunnel to which a black hole is the other opening, or bleed over from another universe, or something else, I don&#39;t know.


So you see, asking for the details makes a tricky question.


EDits: forgot to close a parenthesis. :rolleyes: And a damn "n" :angry: Had two apostrophes too many, and an "e", when will this end?