Sprocket....dripping wet (again)

[clocker]

Just a head's up- Sprocket is about to be watercooled again.
This go round the gear is going to be better, I hope the results warrent the effort.
I find myself perversely attracted to the whole water cooling concept and, despite the extra complexity and cost, cannot resist giving it yet another try.

I already have the bigmama server case to cram all this goodness into and over the next few days will spend some time trying to work out the logistics of the installation while I await the parts.

I also want to try some software configuration experiments so I can decide exactly how to lay out everything after the final hardware install.
Mostly I want to try a RAID 0(striped) set just to see for myself how it works and if it's noticable to the average human ( yeah, I KNOW what all the forums now say about striping....I just wanna try for myself).
My twin 80GB SATA Seagates will do quite nicely I think, and I'm reserving the baby Raptor for the 64-bit Mandrake Linux OS that I hope will supplant XP altogether once I get comfortable with it.

As an aside....Ultra will send you free SATA cables if your X-connect PSU was an early shipping model that did not come with them in the box.
Mine are on the way ( I hope) which will eliminate the unsightly adaptors that I'm now forced to use.

I am researching the optimal CPU/motherboard combo as I have the opportunity to sell off my current x64 3000+/Chaintech rig.
Can't really decide between socket 754 and socket 939...more work to be done there...any suggestions?

Let's see if I can actually finish a project for a change, shall we?

[kaiweiler]

What are the actual specs on the WC system you intend to install?? What rad/heatercore, pump, blocks, etc....
and here we go again, another 10 page thread! :)

[clocker]

Gee, I was hoping for 20 pages or so...it's been kinda slow in here lately.
Outside of Lynx's thread about his HSF, we've sunk to such oddities as clocking toothbrushes....

New loop consists of an Eheim 1250 pump, a TDX waterblock and an unnamed radiator with a 120mm fan.
Here's the block....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/waterblock.jpg
and the radiator...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/rad2.jpg
Sorry, no good pic of the pump.

Reportedly, the temps on a system very much like my current setup were quite good.
This loop features 1/2" lines, a substantial increase in flow from my previous watercooling kit, so I am hopeful of a proportional drop in running temperatures.

We can all find out together....

[S!X]

Whats "Sprocket":shifty:

[bigdawgfoxx]

Why are you switching to Linux

[lynx]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/rad2.jpg

Now that really is a closed loop system. :rolleyes:


Socket 754/939? I'd go for the 939, twice the memory bandwidth, higher speed hypertransport, high end processors are 939 so more likely to be futureproof.

[clocker]

Hi Dawg.
About a month ago I downloaded the three disk install of Mandrake 10.1 on a whim.
I've read/talked to Linux advocates ( they are as rabid as Mac users!) and decided to see for myself what the deal was.
The install was amazing.
Keep in mind that during a normal day at work I might do 2-3 Windows installs, so I'm very familiar with the process.

It was a bloody revelation.

The entire install takes about 12 minutes ( including formatting) and once past the initial "I agree" to the EULA there is no interaction at all...Linux just handles the whole process.
Even the SATA drives, which bring XP to it's knees until you feed it drivers, didn't faze Mandrake...it sees the drives and plucks drivers from it's own database and carries on.
Linux can see the Windows drives and read from them....Windows is confused by Linux and knows that something is over there, but doesn't know what, so it just calls it "unknown partition".

Basically, the Mandrake Linux seems smart and makes XP look stupid and slow.
It's also a fully functional 64-bit OS, so it's using my x64 chip in ways that XP cannot.

The terminology used in Linux is odd ( at least in the beginning), but the interface is not too intimidating and I think that with a bit of study I'll get it down.
I know that Mandrake is a "noob" distro, but it's a cool intro to the world of open source OS and I think I can make it work for me full-time.

Since I first installed Mandrake, every time I have to click through ten screens to get SP2 to install, I realize the MS thinks I am an idiot and I resent it.....

Edit....
Mofos- Sprocket is my PC, a shameless exhibitionist and a black hole into which I pour money and effort and in return receive abuse and frustration.

Very much like my ex-wives....

Lynx- put like that it seems a no-brainer doesn't it?
939 here we come....

[Storm]

cool.......

sounds like linux is really getting user friendly....... might try it out myself if i wasnt so lazy :P


btw, did you finish the case mod on that huge server case? (cant remember it ending, but then i went on vacation a couple of weeks ago)

[tesco]

WIndows Longhorn beta has a pretty quick installer too.

But ofcourse it takes about 10 mins to load. :rolleyes:
Stupid microsoft

[Duffman]

Clocker, the topic name, scared me.

[S!X]

WTf is "SPROCKET":angry:

[Storm]

WTf is "SPROCKET":angry:


Mofos- Sprocket is my PC, a shameless exhibitionist and a black hole into which I pour money and effort and in return receive abuse and frustration.

<_<

EDIT: why wont these damn smileys work :'(

[tesco]

<_<

EDIT: why wont these damn smileys work :'(
they do... :crying: ( : crying : ) :dry: ( : dry : )

[S!X]

<_<

EDIT: why wont these damn smileys work :'(:dry: I didnt see that.:1eye:

[clocker]

Sometimes buying parts off a forum has it's downside.
In my case, I finally ran into a seller who was anxious to get the money, but not too keen on actually shipping the parts.
*sigh*
Finally got the tracking # yesterday and the parts will get to me on Tues.

Meanwhile I have been preparing ( as much as possible) for the switch to H2O.
Since I am also swapping out motherboards at the same time there isn't much I can do about the cabling, but I did manage to get all the HDDs in place and mount the cooling fans for same.

Here is a shot of the two 120GB Seagate SATA drives ( storage) in place above the Ultra PSU....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/driveinstall.jpg
Visible (barely) on the back casewall is the hole for a 120mm fan which blows over these two drives.
My baby Raptor (OS and programs) is mounted in a similar heatpipe cooler in the 5.25" bays under the optical drives. It is cooled by a twinfan belly cooler.
This arrangement seems to work well, MBM5 shows drive temps in the mid- to upper-twenties for all three HDDs....not as good as ABU's subzero results, but
Sprocket seems OK with it.

This is a (pathetic) pic of the general layout as she sits today...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/side3.jpg
The Chaintech board is installed in this pic, the DFI will be installed when the waterloop comes ( trying to save unnecessary work here...), so the ugly orange IDE cables will be gone and the details will be slightly different, but I think the main pieces will stay the same.
Blurrily visible is the new twin heatpipe Zalman VGA cooler on my ATI 9600XT vidcard.
Although advertised as a passive solution, the Zalman raised my vid temps by 5C until I installed the sidefan, which dropped the temps below those with the stock ATI HSF.
With "Overdrive" enabled the card peaks out ( so far) at 32C after running Aquamark 3 ( all temps achieved with the sidepanels and roof in place...), which is fine with me.

So I'm now ready to place the watercooling pieces when they come.
Surprisingly, as huge as this case appears to be, I'm still going to have to be creative shoehorning the radiator and pump into the space that remains.

Should be interesting.

[kaiweiler]

Nice update. Are you planning on mounting the radiator in the front of the case under the drive bays? Or are you planning on coming up with some seemingly ingenious idea for that as well?
Oh and BTW, I want your case :P, I've been trying to find a case of that size around, but it is quite hard to do so without shelling out your life savings. Especially here in Canada where people get the strange vision that smaller is better when it comes to computer cases...
Quite odd actually.

[tesco]

wow...that's way different than your last pictures.

you haven't kept us updated. :crying:


what psu is that? i like the psu connectors being on the back of it so you dont need to have excess wires.

[clocker]

The PSU is an Ultra X-connect, and indeed, it is quite nice to have modular cabling.

The SATA cables ( not included in early shipping units, but offered free through their website) should be here early next week.

K....
Too bad, I just sent out a very similar case ( just one drive bay shorter) to a guy in Atlanta.
My waterloop will ( well, that's the plan) have two radiators...one between the pump and the waterblock and another between the waterblock and the return line to the pump.
It remains to be seen how I shall cram them into place.
First, I need to get the pump mounted and see what sort of room I have left.

[kaiweiler]

K....
Too bad, I just sent out a very similar case ( just one drive bay shorter) to a guy in Atlanta.
Well keep an eye out for me as I need one to house my current watercooling project as well. I just want a standard ATX with lots of space, the rest doesn't matter as it will all be painted/modded/slaughtered.

Anyway, your project is looking quite nice. You plan on keeping the beige colour I assume?

[clocker]

Anyway, your project is looking quite nice. You plan on keeping the beige colour I assume?Nope.
Currently thinking of powdercoating the chassis red and the panels black, but, like everything else, that could change....

[clocker]

Okay....the parts finally came.
There is no way there will be room for two radiators, so the point has become moot.
In fact, I worry about fitting in the one rad and the Eheim pump, both of which are larger than I had imagined from the pics.

Tomorrow is my day off and I'll be able to get started mounting these components and taking some pics.
Everything else is pretty much done and ready for the waterloop...the SATA cables from Ultra even came yesterday.

The DangerDen waterblock seems fairly straightforward to install although I'll probably machine the mounting studs myself...the supplied generic threaded rod is kinda cheesy looking.
I have no idea about the vibration/noise of the Eheim pump.
I can envision several isolation mounting methods, but as yet don't know how elaborate I need to be.

The radiator is going to be the biggest PITA...it has no mounting flanges ( not too difficult to fabricate) and it's sheer size really cuts down on the possible location options.

This might take a while to figure out....

[Duffman]

dont forget pics!

[clocker]

Ask and ye shall receive....
Here are the parts I'm going to try and cram into the case...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/parts1.jpg
You see my dilemma.
The radiator/shroud/fan assembly is grotesquely large compared to the available space.
The pump ain't no midget, either.

My initial impression was that I might have to go with an external box to house the rad/pump, but I hate the idea and refuse to do it.
This must be completely self-contained or I won't continue.
So....

If I cut the mobo tray right where the PCB ends, the front of the case will accomodate the radiator assembly...it's close, but it works.
The pump will squeeze below the rad and the end of the video card.
Barely.
Then I just have to route the ( somewhat awkward) 1/2" tubing in as nice a manner as possible.

Before someone asks....
Yes, I have considered mounting the radiator up in the roof, but there are practical issues that make it difficult.
The side panels install first and the roof panel holds the whole skin in place, which means the roof is removed every time access to the interior is wanted.
I suppose that it is possible to get around this, but it would be a giant PITA to do well, so ( for now at least) I've dismissed the concept.
This may change, naturally.

I'm almost overwhelmed by the scope of this project...I hate the idea of hacking up the case only to run into a problem I hadn't considered, but hack away I must.
The two main construction projects are:
-properly (read: securely) mounting the radiator...there are no flanges or other attachment points as it sits now

-installing the pump...the wiring is easy, albeit time consuming, but I don't know how elaborate to make the vibration isolation mounts.

Oh boy, hours of fun.

[Duffman]

First of, wow that thing is fucking huge, but it looks like it will fit.

Heres what I'd do, bump the radiator up against the far right of the case, and put a 90degree tubing thing right off the end of the pump, and into the rad, it looks like it might just fit.

[lynx]

Have you considered mounting the radiator up in the roof. :whistling

Well, you didn't actually say not to ask. :rolleyes:

Actually, if you've got a reservoir I'm not sure the roof would be a good place to put it. The reservoir obviously has to be at the top of the system, and would therefore have to be outside the case if the radiator is up there.

The size (and price) of the Eheim pump is exactly the reason I went for the Hydor model. It is about half the size, virtually vibrationless, and mounted on rubber suction feet. The downside is that it isn't self-priming so it is an absolute swine to get the system filled. Still, too late to worry about that now.

I came to the conclusion that the best layout was something like this:
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/lynx1153-Cooling.jpg

The reservoir layout gives the best option for removal of air from the system, and the direct feed to the pump makes filling much easier. Hope that's of some help to you.

[lynx]

First of, wow that thing is fucking huge, but it looks like it will fit.

Heres what I'd do, bump the radiator up against the far right of the case, and put a 90degree tubing thing right off the end of the pump, and into the rad, it looks like it might just fit.Unfortunately the outlet from the pump is at the top. That is a necessity with centrifugal pumps because they do not have the ability to suck.

[Storm]

that was kinda my question to........ cause i didnt hear you mention a resevoir......... are you putting one in? if not, why and is there a downside to not putting a resevoir in?

[clocker]

Thanks for the input guys.
I would have loved to put in a reservoir, but there is simply no room.
A t-line shall have to suffice.
Actually, a t-line IS sufficing...Sprocket is running on water as we speak (well, as I speak and you read).

Once I decided on a general layout the work went surprisingly fast.
As I suspected, the fit was very close, but everything slid into place as I'd hoped and seems to work well.

I leak tested the loop as I was cutting up the case (total test time was 3 hours...not the recommended 24, but I was impatient) and had no probs with water.
To begin with I am running pure distilled water...haven't decided on what (if any) additives I might use.

To early to guess the temps yet...need to let the loop get up to temp and cycle the AS5 a few times, but initial results are promising.

I also need to improve the isolation of the pump and wire it up correctly, but that can wait for a bit till I'm sure I want to keep this system in the box.

Pics soon.

[accat13]

/me patiently awaiting pics :blink:

[clocker]

Good thing you are patient...it might be a while.
Just for grins I decided to see what my Priming temps might be.
Going at it hammer and tongs right now.

100% CPU usage and 34c.
Not too shabby.

[clocker]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/water.jpg

Round two of Priming.
Temps have skyrocketed up to 35C.

Oh my.

[accat13]

worth the wait nice pic...I know someone who's going to be doing lots of tinkering have fun :D

[clocker]

I know someone who's going to be doing lots of tinkering :D
Indeed.
So far I have identified two issues that must be dealt with ASAP.

First, the Eheim pump is transmitting a low frequency hum to the case chassis which is driving me nuts.
Obviously my initial attempt to isolate it while still providing a stable platform was a failure. Something far more elaborate will be necessary.
This will be the first order of business cause if I can't successfully solve this problem then the whole waterloop will have to go.

Second, the Sunon fan (supplied with the rad/shroud) makes an irritating hum when dialed down to 7v (the lowest setting possible with my Vantec fanbus).
It had already occured to me when contemplating the wiring for the pump that it may be useful to bring my ComairRotron Muffins (also 120v) out of retirement and use them on this project. As long as I have to wire 120v lines for the pump, the extra work to add in the fans is really not that big a deal. I even have a monster 172mm Muffin (as yet unused) that might be just the ticket for the radiator.

I tried to Prime overnight, but even from across the hall I could hear Sprocket humming/whining, so I shut her down around 3am.
Even so, initial results are pretty good...temp maxxed out at 36c.
This is acceptable, but not spectacular...my old temps (this comparison is the reason I haven't swapped to the new motherboard yet) were in the low 40's range, so I've dropped maybe 5-7c with the waterloop compared to the stock AMD HSF.
The new DFI mobo will accept a Thermalright XP-120, reputed to be the ne plus ultra of the current crop of HSFs, I am curious how it might do, but, having spent the cash and energy on the waterrig, I really should follow through a bit more.
I'm going to refine the setup as much as possible using the Chaintech board since I have some baseline data to use for comparison, then swap out the boards later.
The basic layouts are similar enough (save for DFI's odd placement of the SATA headers) that I should easily be able to replace boards with no modification to the loop.

Off to work....

[sArA]

I am stunned and amazed that this is even possible! i shall continue to follow the saga and enjoy. Don't understand the techie stuff, but fascinating concept..... :)

[clocker]

Hi Sara...slumming in Hardware World, are we?

Watercooling is really nothing new, your compatriot Lynx has been using it for months now and Sprocket has dabbled several times over the past year or so.

Being addicted to hardware prOn, the challenge and complexity appeals to me more than the actual results.....

[tesco]

boy that's really crammed in there.

if any pipe was to leak everything would easily be covered in water.

[clocker]

Well yeah, there is that.

[lynx]

Hi Sara...slumming in Hardware World, are we?

Watercooling is really nothing new, your compatriot Lynx has been using it for months now and Sprocket has dabbled several times over the past year or so.

Being addicted to hardware prOn, the challenge and complexity appeals to me more than the actual results.....Back on air cooling now. Temps only rose about 5-6 degrees (now 41C) when I switched to the Aerocool HT-101jr, and it is fairly quiet. But in about 10 months the whole system only lost about 5cc of water, and I'm pretty sure most of that would have been evaporation from the top of the filler pipe.

[sArA]

Hi Sara...slumming in Hardware World, are we?

Watercooling is really nothing new, your compatriot Lynx has been using it for months now and Sprocket has dabbled several times over the past year or so.

Being addicted to hardware prOn, the challenge and complexity appeals to me more than the actual results.....


I have to venture out of the lounge from time to time...keeps me sane...ish :)

I had never heard of a watercooled computer before, and Sprocket looks like an art form and is much changed over time I think.

Although I have neither the technical savvy nor confidence to undertake such things, the fact that someone else does is fascinating. :)

Besides...I may learn something along the way

[clocker]

I had never heard of a watercooled computer before, and Sprocket looks like an art form and is much changed over time I think.


Just so.
I have the luxury (or affliction, depending on one's viewpoint) of working on my PC rather more than working with it.
I would venture to claim that Sprocket is the most frequently modified computer in our forum...not necessarily a good thing, but prolly true nonetheless.

Be aware that the waterloop you see would be considered rudimentary (and not particularly artful either) in hardcore circles...the extent to which some folks will go is a constant amazement to me, but the law of diminishing returns kicks in rather early in the process IMO, and such displays of technical bravura are interesting, but ultimately pointless.
To each his own though.

[clocker]

Hmmm....
Interesting phenomonon occurring here.
Temps have slowly but surely dropped as I cycle the AS5...Primed for 6 hours last night and only hit 34C.

I've had to wait till my next day off (Sunday) to begin the next round of construction as it will require a total stripdown of the case, and I'm just too lazy to work after I get home.

Still, I have given a lot of thought to the next stage (particularly the routing of the waterlines) and have a workable plan.
One of my primary goals is to quiet this thing down- the pump I have figured out (well, at least I have a plan to try...), but the horrible whine from the radiator fan was a stumper.

I thought it might be interesting to see what the system could sound like with a better fan installed, so I simply disconnected the fan as a test.

Temps did not change a bit.
With NO FAN running at all I'm still at 34C (100% CPU usage).
Granted, it's only been 1/2 hour and heat soak might eventually become a factor, but I'm still surprised at the performance running a passive system.
I may have to explore this option more fully as it would certainly simplify the whole configuration if I could eliminate the fan/shroud assembly.

[Virtualbody1234]

If that's the case with passive setup, then you could install an ultra slow fan. Hmmmm... Quiet.

[clocker]

True, I could, but I'm kinda thinking of no fan at all.
While still running Prime I just ran SpySweeper, Ad-aware, Spybot and then defragged followed by a run through Aquamark3.
The idea was to generate as much heat in the system as possible from the ancillary components and see what the CPU temp did.

Even with all the extra heat...the vid card hit 28c and my Raptor hit 30...the CPU maxxed out at 36C.
Granted, one sidepanel is not installed ( I need a place for the pump's cord to exit the case) so this is not an accurate relection of the final result, but even so I would guess that the fully buttoned up case would still leave me running below or right at 40C...an acceptable result given the silence.

[Virtualbody1234]

Now to isolate the pump.

Couldn't you run the power cord through an unused PCI slot at the back of the case?

[clocker]

Yes, I could, but that is hardly the most elegant solution.
I have all the necessary parts to wire in a proper receptical and on/off switch, thus eliminating the dangling cord.

[Virtualbody1234]

I was only offering a temporary solution. ;)

[clocker]

Thanks, VB...I appreciate it.

I was only being a temporary wiseass.

[Virtualbody1234]

Thanks, VB...I appreciate it.

I was only being a temporary wiseass.
:lol: :lol:

I enjoy your wiseass comments. :)

[clocker]

You should see the ones I don't post.....

[clocker]

The fun continues.

This morning I stripped the waterloop components out to make a better pump mount and fabricate mounting brackets for the radiator.
During a coffee/cigarette break, my eye fell upon the Aerocool DP-102 sitting idly on the shelf.

Hmmmm.....

Although not originally designed to fit a socket 754, t'was but a moment's work to make it do so.
To make the experiment even more extreme, I removed the brackets that enable the use of an 80mm fan and mounted the 70mm fan from the stock AMD HS.

Thus equipped, Sprocket was fired up and set to Priming.

After two hours the CPU temp had topped out at 39C.

How very interesting.
Needless to say, the desire to reinstall the water rig is fast waning....granted, I picked up 4-5 degrees from the temp while watercooled, but the silence and lack of complexity using air alone is a big plus.

Even worse, sitting on the same shelf from which the Aerocool came are my Zalman 7000cu and a TT Silent Tower, both of which ARE designed to fit the socket 754.
This could take a while....

[Virtualbody1234]

Isn't the stock AMD cooler fan 60mm?

[clocker]

Nope, not the a64 HS fans.

[Virtualbody1234]

Nope, not the a64 HS fans.
Ah. Ok. My misunderstanding...

[clocker]

Forgiven.

This time.

[Virtualbody1234]

Again with your wiseass comments. ;)

Good stuff!

[Duffman]

Again with the pointing out the wise ass comments. :P

[kaiweiler]

edited...

[Storm]

Nope, not the a64 HS fans.

makes you wonder how far this will be going.........

recently ive helped my friends parents with their comp, it had a 40mm fan on it...... real tiny mofo.......... makes ya wonder lookin at all the watercooling and vapochills with 120mm exhaust fans.........