Saving Private Ryan

[ruthie]

Some stations are refusing to air Saving Private Ryan tonight. They are claiming fear of FCC fines, "bad" words, etc. This movie has aired on TV twice before. Amazing. I think the truth is, the opening scenes are extremely graphic...they show horrendous injuries, and a pretty realistic picture of war. I think they don't want people to see it..you know, the whole..demoralizing thing.
I think this is an insult to Veterans, and people's intelligence.

[lynx]

Surely they could have shown the "sanitized" version for those who won't face truth?

Mind you, a 15 minute movie isn't going to be much use at holding their attention, it's far too long. ;)

[ruthie]

LOL. The agreement with Spielberg is absolutely no editing. I've read several news reports, and they do cite the Iraq war as one of the reasons.

[hippychick]

The station here says there not airing cause of the fear of FCC, realting to the Janet Jackson scandel.
I feel its an insult to the Veterens...my God there are over 100 stations if you dont want to watch it, change the station!!!
All this policaly correct stuff...WTF

[vidcc]

Janice Wise, spokeswoman for the FCC's enforcement bureau, said it had received calls from broadcasters asking if the film would run afoul of the agency's indecency rules. Wise said the commission was barred from making a decision before the broadcast "because that would be censorship."
"If we get a complaint, we'll act on it," she said.


So broadcasters have to take a chance..that nobody will complain... seeing as this is a land that burns Harry Potter books i guess nothing can be shown without risk.....

[Comic_Peddler]

It's a friggin' movie, get over it. If you want to see it, rent it, buy it, or download it. The thought of this will not cross your mind in a month. Maybe the next time they don't show the Simpsons because of some football or baseball game I should bitch and moan as well.

[scroff]

It's a friggin' movie, get over it. If you want to see it, rent it, buy it, or download it. The thought of this will not cross your mind in a month. Maybe the next time they don't show the Simpsons because of some football or baseball game I should bitch and moan as well.Tell you what, when they don't show the Simpsons out of fear of the FCC you can bitch and moan.

[Everose]

Good Post and good point, Comic Peddler. Thanks

[hobbes]

Some stations are refusing to air Saving Private Ryan tonight. They are claiming fear of FCC fines, "bad" words, etc. This movie has aired on TV twice before. Amazing. I think the truth is, the opening scenes are extremely graphic...they show horrendous injuries, and a pretty realistic picture of war. I think they don't want people to see it..you know, the whole..demoralizing thing.
I think this is an insult to Veterans, and people's intelligence.


Yes, how insensitive of the networks to think that peoples' children are in harms way at this second and it may not be in their interest at this time just to see how violently their children could die tonight.

We can watch a movie about cancer and slow death, but we don't show this film to cancer patients.

We must not show a movie blind of current events.

Duh!

And how does this insult anyones intelligence? Mothers don't want to see how their children may die tonight.

In times of peace, these scenes are more abstract to the viewers.

Are you not aware of this?

[Comic_Peddler]

Tell you what, when they don't show the Simpsons out of fear of the FCC you can bitch and moan.

Fear of the FCC keeps you from seeing shows that simply are nothing but veiled porn, yet you make no grumble of this.

[scroff]

Fear of the FCC keeps you from seeing hard core porn, yet you make no grumble of this.Saving Private Ryan isn't hard core porn... and I really wouldn't care if they did show hard core porn.

[scroff]

Yes, how insensitive of the networks to think that people's children are in harms way at this second and it may not be in their interest at this time just to see how violently their children could die tonight.

We can watch a movie about cancer and slow death, but we don't show this film to cancer patients.

We must not show a movie blind of current events.

Duh!

And how does this insult anyones intelligence? Mothers don't want to see how their children may die tonight.

In times of peace, these scenes are more abstract to the viewers.

Are you not aware of this?
If they don't want to see how horribly their children might die tonight, they can change the channel. Or... maybe we should just ignore the realities of how their children might die tonight, sugar coat it with Return to Mayberry, numb the brain totally, why not?

Aw hell, lets let the Federal government make all our decisions for us... let's just have one channel

[hobbes]

It is all about context, get it?

Scroff why don't you go tell a story about terminal cancer at the cancer ward. You don't do that do you?

It is 1 frickin' movie, there are others that can be shown.

[ruthie]

Yes, how insensitive of the networks to think that people's children are in harms way at this second and it may not be in their interest at this time just to see how violently their children could die tonight.

We can watch a movie about cancer and slow death, but we don't show this film to cancer patients.

We must not show a movie blind of current events.

Duh!

And how does this insult anyones intelligence? Mothers don't want to see how their children may die tonight.

In times of peace, these scenes are more abstract to the viewers.

Are you not aware of this?

People have the ability to change the channel. I think no parent wants to think of how their child might die tonight..
.nonetheless, it might happen. I don't think the FCC should be making decision as to what is in the best interest of the nation...according to them.

Vietnam brought pictures home to America...the reality was in the paper and on the TV. Should that have been censored?

[hobbes]

People have the ability to change the channel. I think no parent wants to think of how their child might die tonight..
.nonetheless, it might happen. I don't think the FCC should be making decision as to what is in the best interest of the nation...according to them.

Vietnam brought pictures home to America...the reality was in the paper and on the TV. Should that have been censored?

You people are so far up your own asses you can't even appreciate situations in which the reality of war is not the best option.

Nobody is talking government controlled TV, nobody is removing this movie from Blockbuster, they are just choosing a different option based on the current circumstances.

[scroff]

It is all about context, get it?

Scroff why don't you go tell a story about terminal cancer at the cancer ward. You don't do that do you?

It is 1 frickin' movie, there are others that can be shown.
If the fricken patients had a choice of whether or not they wanted to hear it I would. When my mother died of lung cancer this year the Hospice workers did indeed tell us a story about cancer, and dying...

It's not about context... the networks weren't pre-empting it out of any empty concern for the mothers of America, but because of Janet Jackson's nipple. Get it right.

[hobbes]

If the fricken patients had a choice of whether or not they wanted to hear it I would. When my mother died of lung cancer this year the Hospice workers did indeed tell us a story about cancer, and dying...

It's not about context... the networks weren't pre-empting it out of any empty concern for the mothers of America, but because of Janet Jackson's nipple. Get it right.


If you had any insight, you might choose a different story.

You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you.

[Everose]

If they don't want to see how horribly their children might die tonight, they can change the channel. Or... maybe we should just ignore the realities of how their children might die tonight, sugar coat it with Return to Mayberry, numb the brain totally, why not?






I cannot imagine, Scroff, a hate so big and so totally consuming that it allows you no compassion for your fellow Americans.

Do you not have any sense of the fact that these parents already know what you want to stuff down their faces?

They are living with it every day.

Funny how you support our troops so dearly, but at the same time wish this type of thing on the parents that love them.

[scroff]

You people are so far up your own asses you can't even appreciate situations in which the reality of war is not the best option.

Nobody is talking government controlled TV, nobody is removing this movie from Blockbuster, they are just choosing a different option based on the current circumstances.Who are you to decide what the best option is? People can decide for themselves what the best option is through their remote. I don't know about you, but I choose to make my own decisions.

As far as the reality of war, like you said, it's a fricken movie, get over it.

[hobbes]

Who are you to decide what the best option is? People can decide for themselves what the best option is through their remote. I don't know about you, but I choose to make my own decisions.

Then rent the movie.

[Everose]

It's not about context... the networks weren't pre-empting it out of any empty concern for the mothers of America, but because of Janet Jackson's nipple. Get it right.


Now the truth comes out??? Funny, this was not mentioned at all in the original post in this thread. :)

[hobbes]

Quite frankly, if you can't understand how a movie, that was aired twice before, was not shown again, given the current situation in Iraq, then you have disconnected from reality for the sole purpose of your agendas.

I know that Ruthie was going to leave the US if she had the cash. Good thing that money was more important than principle, for her.

[ruthie]

You people are so far up your own asses you can't even appreciate situations in which the reality of war is not the best option.

Nobody is talking government controlled TV, nobody is removing this movie from Blockbuster, they are just choosing a different option based on the current circumstances.

Do you really think that everyone with a family member in Iraq objects to this movie? By your reasoning, today, Veterans Day, not one war movie should be aired that might be graphic because it is, perhaps, painful? War is a horror, and that is reality.
You might believe that the reality of war is not the best option...that's your choice, but that might not be the choice of others.

[scroff]

I cannot imagine, Scroff, a hate so big and so totally consuming that it allows you no compassion for your fellow Americans.

Do you not have any sense of the fact that these parents already know what you want to stuff down their faces?

They are living with it every day.

Funny how you support our troops so dearly, but at the same time wish this type of thing on the parents that love them.
You gotta be kidding me??? Hate?? Change the channel!! What's so hard to understand about that? We're not talking about Clockwork Orange here, no one will be forced to sit and watch Saving Private Ryan, they're adults, they can make a choice.

[scroff]

Now the truth comes out??? Funny, this was not mentioned at all in the original post in this thread. :)What original post are you reading? It specifically said "They are claiming fear of FCC fines, "bad" words, etc" or didn't you see that part?

[hobbes]

What original post are you reading? It specifically said "They are claiming fear of FCC fines, "bad" words, etc" or didn't you see that part?


Yeah, but you have to see through the words to the meaning.
Saving Private Ryan may be a better option next year.

[Peerzy]

Shaving Ryans Privaes was better IMO.

[ruthie]

[QUOTE=scroff]If they don't want to see how horribly their children might die tonight, they can change the channel. Or... maybe we should just ignore the realities of how their children might die tonight, sugar coat it with Return to Mayberry, numb the brain totally, why not?






I cannot imagine, Scroff, a hate so big and so totally consuming that it allows you no compassion for your fellow Americans.

Do you not have any sense of the fact that these parents already know what you want to stuff down their faces?

They are living with it every day.

Funny how you support our troops so dearly, but at the same time wish this type of thing on the parents that love them.

Don't read what isn't there. A hate so big? What is it you think Scroff, or I for that matter, hate? No compassion for fellow americans? that's out of left field. I do not recall saying everyone should watch this movie. the issue is choice, the freedom to decide. Stuff down their faces? What script are you reading?
It is Veterans Day...hello...Veterans Day. John McCain introduced the film tonight with a Veteran who was there...when he was 19. It would seem you would find him an insensitive ass too. too much

[scroff]

Quite frankly, if you can't understand how a movie, that was aired twice before, was not shown again, given the current situation in Iraq, then you have disconnected from reality for the sole purpose of your agendas.
Quite frankly, I just think the average American is capable of deciding for themselves and changing the channel if they so choose, if you don't think that's true, then I suggest you have a little more faith in the average American, unless you really think they're that stupid that they'll sit there and forget about the remote.


I know that Ruthie was going to leave the US if she had the cash. Good thing that money was more important than principle, for her.
Some of us, Hobbsey, don't have enough cash to move... some of us just have enough cash to live. Myself, I plan to stay and fix stupid shit like this.

[scroff]

Yeah, but you have to see through the words to the meaning.
Saving Private Ryan may be a better option next year.The "option" is up to the individual viewer.

[Everose]

You gotta be kidding me??? Hate?? Change the channel!! What's so hard to understand about that? We're not talking about Clockwork Orange here, no one will be forced to sit and watch Saving Private Ryan, they're adults, they can make a choice.


No thanks, no changing the channel for me. I voted for Kerry, but I will never buy into your hate agenda. Yours or anyone elses for that matter.

[ruthie]

What is the hate agenda? You might be right, you might be wrong. LOL

[scroff]

No thanks, no changing the channel for me. I voted for Kerry, but I will never buy into your hate agenda. Yours or anyone elses for that matter.No changing the channel??? Well, hell, if people can't even work a remote I guess they do need the FCC to tell them what to watch. I'm sorry for those people.

[ruthie]

Again, it is Veterans Day. Has everyone forgotten the Veterans? Are we not supposed to honor them? Should we wait til we are out of Iraq to show these types of movies? That isn't realistic. Should we just cancel Veterans Day til the war is over? This is being shown tonight BECAUSE it's Veterans Day.

[hobbes]

I am not angry at Ruthie and Scroff, just disappointed.

There is no mandate that a certain movie needs to be aired on Veterans day and there is no censorship on that movie. It is available at any movie rental store.

A network may have decided that based on the current events that such a movie would have received poor viewings and cost them money, so they changed the programming. Just like airing a hardcore porn movie would have done them no favors.

This not censorship, but business.

The reasons they cited were politcal not reality, it is actually quite simple.

You can change the channel if you wish, but if the airing network is afraid that the show it airs will offend viewers and cause low ratings, the show will not be aired.

It is like the documentary on Ronald Reagan that was made. The test audience found it offensive and the entire movie was thrown away. That is the nature of business. Certain climates allow some things that another may not.

I am sure this movie will see air time again, it is the context of the war that has changed programming. Anyone who believes the excuse about the FCC is a simpleton.

[hobbes]

And scroffsey, you want "faith in the American viewer".

1) Faith is a religious word, it means belief without proof. So you must be referring to our Christian viewers.

2) The same viewers that voted for Bush.


So you think the American viewer is up to snuff on the appropriate movie selection, but you lambast the same for his choice in President.

Man, you are so lost.

[ruthie]

And scroffsey, you want "faith in the American viewer".

1) Faith is a religious word, it means belief without proof. So you must be referring to our Christian viewers.

2) The same viewers that voted for Bush.


So you think the American viewer is up to snuff on the appropriate movie selection, but you lambast the same for his choice in President.

Man, you are so lost.
do you believe a viewer lacks the ability to change the channel?

[hobbes]

Again, it is Veterans Day. Has everyone forgotten the Veterans? Are we not supposed to honor them? Should we wait til we are out of Iraq to show these types of movies? That isn't realistic. Should we just cancel Veterans Day til the war is over? This is being shown tonight BECAUSE it's Veterans Day.

There are "feel good movies" as well. Somedays reality needs to be swept to the back corner for a little pick-me-up. Families know everyday, the stress of having a child overseas.

Are you really not getting this?

[scroff]

I am not angry at Ruthie and Scroff, just disappointed.

There is no mandate that a certain movie needs to be aired on Veterans day and there is no censorship on that movie. It is available at any movie rental store.

A network may have decided that based on the current events that such a movie would have received poor viewings and cost them money, so they changed the programming. Just like airing a hardcore porn movie would have done them no favors.

This not censorship, but business.

The reasons they cited were politcal not reality, it is actually quite simple.

You can change the channel if you wish, but if the airing network is afraid that the show it airs will offend viewers and cause low ratings, the show will not be aired.

It is like the documentary on Ronald Reagan that was made. The test audience found it offensive and the entire movie was thrown away. That is the nature of business. Certain climates allow some things that another may not.

I am sure this movie will see air time again, it is the context of the war that has changed programming. Anyone who believes the excuse about the FCC is a simpleton.
I happen to agree with you about the reasons for not airing the movie being political, but I don't agree that business had anything to do with it.

The Reagan movie wasn't shelved because any "test audience" found it offensive, it was shelved because there was intense backlash from the Republican National Committee and others.

[hippychick]

With all big buisness its all about money...The thing that burns me up the most is pulling the movie cause they feel they'll lose ratings, then saying its because it might offend the audiances.
This is America, so called land of the free, if we want to watch the movie then we should and not have Big Brother tell us we can't. Sure we can rent it, but its the principal behind it!

[hobbes]

do you believe a viewer lacks the ability to change the channel?

Read the other post.

[scroff]

There are "feel good movies" as well. Somedays reality needs to be swept to the back corner for a little pick-me-up. Families know everyday, the stress of having a child overseas.

Are you really not getting this?
Saving Private Ryan is not aired everyday, and no one is forced to watch it... are you not getting that?

[hobbes]

I happen to agree with you about the reasons for not airing the movie being political, but I don't agree that business had anything to do with it.

The Reagan movie wasn't shelved because any "test audience" found it offensive, it was shelved because there was intense backlash from the Republican National Committee and others.

How are you so sure?

I imagine that the RNC could have blocked financing of the movie. I heard specifically that the test audience was offended.

Really, whose mind would have be changed. The decision was financial.

[ruthie]

Oh, I understand what you write...i just don't see it the way you do. Again...should we cancel Veterans Day because we are in a war? make a temporary law that no war movie be seen because it is war time?
Yes, somedays, people want feel-good movies...then don't pick ABC tonight for your viewing choice..simple as that.
Do you think any Veterans might be offended by this whole thing? I'm sure Veterans feel both ways about this.

[hobbes]

Saving Private Ryan is not aired everyday, and no one is forced to watch it... are you not getting that?


No, the network decided it was not a good choice given the current situation. Why else would it have been aired twice before.

Got it yet?

[scroff]

And scroffsey, you want "faith in the American viewer".

1) Faith is a religious word, it means belief without proof. So you must be referring to our Christian viewers.

2) The same viewers that voted for Bush.Faith isn't a religious word. People can have faith in anything, faith is a level of confidence, you can have faith that your car will start... I'm really surprised that I have to tell you this.



So you think the American viewer is up to snuff on the appropriate movie selection, but you lambast the same for his choice in President.

Man, you are so lost.I would think the choice of what to watch on a Thursday night isn't nearly as difficult as choosing a president. If someone thinks the two are comparable, well...

[Everose]

Don't read what isn't there. A hate so big? What is it you think Scroff, or I for that matter, hate? No compassion for fellow americans? that's out of left field.

**********************************************************

I disagree. For one instance, all of your ridicule for people that believe in God, or as you call them, the moral majority. How will this ridicule help? It didn't help in the election, believe me. A lot of people believe in God in the US. Have you given a thought to try to reach these people by telling them that they can be moral, such as using a frozen embroyo to save the life of a nine year old child with diabetes? No, you attack them and call them all ignorant, attack their president, who believes in God. How do you think you can change people to your viewpoint? You have already expressed your hate for the people who voted for Bush, without considering they could be really intelligent people that based this viewpoint on their concerns about the type of President Kerry would make. I feel this same way about the far right conservatives that have damaged their party more than they want to admit.

[hobbes]

Oh, I understand what you write...i just don't see it the way you do. Again...should we cancel Veterans Day because we are in a war? make a temporary law that no war movie be seen because it is war time?
Yes, somedays, people want feel-good movies...then don't pick ABC tonight for your viewing choice..simple as that.
Do you think any Veterans might be offended by this whole thing? I'm sure Veterans feel both ways about this.

Christ, why would a network play a movie that it thought would flop? That is the point. They didn't air it because you would change the channel. Or more appropriately, they thought you would.

If CBS aired hardcore porn, would you say, change the channel. No you would sue the station. Just like you would sue the school that spanks kids in gym class.

You don't even see your inconsistensies when they don't fit your agenda.

[ruthie]

I have a pretty long response for you Everose..it will have to wait til we return. My father-in-law needs us to go help him.

[hobbes]

Faith isn't a religious word. People can have faith in anything, faith is a level of confidence, you can have faith that your car will start... I'm really surprised that I have to tell you this.


I would think the choice of what to watch on a Thursday night isn't nearly as difficult as choosing a president. If someone thinks the two are comparable, well...

Actually, you are confusing "confidence" with "faith".

Confidence is based on prior experience, your car started yesterday and 365 days before that.

Faith is belief without knowledge. "firm belief in something for which there is no proof" - Merriam-Webster.

Please don't show your ignorance so glaringly. That is just embarassing.

[scroff]

If CBS aired hardcore porn, would you say, change the channel. No you would sue the station. Just like you would sue the school that spanks kids in gym class.I think I already said if the networks aired hard core porn it would be fine by me. I'd say the same thing, change the channel. Spanking kids is not even in the same catagory.

[Rip The Jacker]

Awesome! Saving Private Ryan starts in an hour here.

Thanks for starting this thread Ruthie. :)

EDIT: It'd better show it, according to Yahoo! TV it will... :unsure:

[hobbes]

I think I already said if the networks aired hard core porn it would be fine by me. I'd say the same thing, change the channel. Spanking kids is not even in the same catagory.

You don't even know what you are talking about, it was mock spanking kids. It was done with a foam rubber paddle. It was fun, the birthday boy got to be a celebrity for the day. No one was hurt. Ruthie knew all this and STILL wanted to sue the school board, just because 1 kid might have had a bad home experience.

Cuckoo!

And why don't networks air hardcore porn. Public opinion and obviously the economic backlash.

[scroff]

No, the network decided it was not a good choice given the current situation. Why else would it have been aired twice before.

Got it yet?
Well, first it was out of some kind of compassion for parents with children in Iraq, now it's a business decision. I get it, it's good business not to offend parents with children in Iraq.

Many networks have aired it, I'm watching it right now, so I guess we'll just have to see if those networks lose any money. John McCain decided airing it was good enough and introduced the movie, so maybe that'll help the ratings. Time will tell...

In the meantime, change the channel...

[hobbes]

Private Ryan was shelved tonight because of the current situation in Fallujah. No need for anything more complicated to understand this.

People who have political agendas may want to paint another picture, but this is simply a case of placing their agenda over common sense.

[ruthie]

[QUOTE=ruthie]Don't read what isn't there. A hate so big? What is it you think Scroff, or I for that matter, hate? No compassion for fellow americans? that's out of left field.

**********************************************************

I disagree. For one instance, all of your ridicule for people that believe in God, or as you call them, the moral majority. How will this ridicule help? It didn't help in the election, believe me. A lot of people believe in God in the US. Have you given a thought to try to reach these people by telling them that they can be moral, such as using a frozen embroyo to save the life of a nine year old child with diabetes? No, you attack them and call them all ignorant, attack their president, who believes in God. How do you think you can change people to your viewpoint? You have already expressed your hate for the people who voted for Bush, without considering they could be really intelligent people that based this viewpoint on their concerns about the type of President Kerry would make. I feel this same way about the far right conservatives that have damaged their party more than they want to admit.
father-in-law called back..he found the cat.
I do not ridicule people for their belief in god...never had, as I believe religion/spirituality is a personal thing. The moral majority is up for grabs. They expect a country to live by their moral code, and to that, I say bullshit.
doesn't make me immoral or amoral, does it? We all have our own ethics and value system. I believe they want to control people and the decisions/freedoms they have or want. Everyone has the right to pick and choose, but no one has the right to dictate their personal belief system to another. Actually, I have a friend who voted for Bush..one of my sisters did too...don't hate them at all.
Stem cell research? Discussed it with my sister actually. LOL


If CBS aired hardcore porn, would you say, change the channel. No you would sue the station. Just like you would sue the school that spanks kids in gym class.

You don't even see your inconsistensies when they don't fit your agenda.
I believe your discussion of porn was with Scroff. Yup, I'd sue a school..however that started from the thread that went from karate to spanking. Perhaps you should reread why I would sue a school.


You don't even know what you are talking about, it was mock spanking kids. It was done with a foam rubber paddle. It was fun, the birthday boy got to be a celebrity for the day. No one was hurt. Ruthie knew all this and STILL wanted to sue the school board, just because 1 kid might have had a bad home experience.

Cuckoo!

Awww, some kid might have had a bad home experience...what are you saying..it must have sucked to be that kid, but tough shit? Get a grip. Yup...I wouldn't have gone for my kid being hit with shit...you might have thought it was funny, I am sure there were some kids embarrassed, humiliated, or triggered.

[hobbes]

Well, first it was out of some kind of compassion for parents with children in Iraq, now it's a business decision. I get it, it's good business not to offend parents with children in Iraq.

Many networks have aired it, I'm watching it right now, so I guess we'll just have to see if those networks lose any money. John McCain decided airing it was good enough and introduced the movie, so maybe that'll help the ratings. Time will tell...

In the meantime, change the channel...

So, if it aired, what is the issue.

Some stations may have felt differently based on their viewers. Did you see how the PresidentiaL voting broke down, state by state?

[ruthie]

Awesome! Saving Private Ryan starts in an hour here.

Thanks for starting this thread Ruthie. :)

welcome :D

[scroff]

You don't even know what you are talking about, it was mock spanking kids. It was done with a foam rubber paddle. It was fun, the birthday boy got to be a celebrity for the day. No one was hurt. Ruthie knew all this and STILL wanted to sue the school board, just because 1 kid might have had a bad home experience.

Cuckoo!

And why don't networks air hardcore porn. Public opinion and obviously the economic backlash.
I know what I'm talking about. I'm replying to your post about spanking kids, if it's mock spanking say it's mock spanking.

You asked if I would say "Change the channel if CBS aired hard core porn", I told you I would, what does public opinion havew to so with this?

[scroff]

So, if it aired, what is the issue.

Some stations may have felt differently based on their viewers. Did you see how the PresidentiaL voting broke down, state by state?
What are you inferring here Hobbes?

[hobbes]

Awww, some kid might have had a bad home experience...what are you saying..it must have sucked to be that kid, but tough shit? Get a grip. Yup...I wouldn't have gone for my kid being hit with shit...you might have thought it was funny, I am sure there were some kids embarrassed, humiliated, or triggered.

The children all had a chance to refuse. Not just in words, but in reaction. No kid who was not laughing or smiling was dragged crying for spanking.

As for the karate thing, that was just pathetic. Nobody was teaching violence, just the opposite.

Cuckoo.

[scroff]

Private Ryan was shelved tonight because of the current situation in Fallujah. No need for anything more complicated to understand this.

People who have political agendas may want to paint another picture, but this is simply a case of placing their agenda over common sense.Riiight, fall back to the old agenda bit...

it's common sense to say that people can change the channel... isn't it interesting how networks can use the FCC as their excuse to pull certain movies now...

[ruthie]

Private Ryan was shelved tonight because of the current situation in Fallujah. No need for anything more complicated to understand this.



Exactly. and....that is a bullshit reason.

[hobbes]

Riiight, fall back to the old agenda bit...


Awesome, what is my agenda?

This is sweet!

[hobbes]

Exactly. and....that is a bullshit reason.

Your opinion, nothing more. Then again you are not losing any money.

Anyway, aren't you moving away from the US, or is money more important than principle.

[ruthie]

The children all had a chance to refuse. Not just in words, but in reaction. No kid who was not laughing or smiling was dragged crying for spanking.

As for the karate thing, that was just pathetic. Nobody was teaching violence, just the opposite.

Cuckoo.


Yup...without parental permission. Ties in with "the kids shouldn"t see the movie"
Well, I knew what my kids were watching...I was involved with my children. If I felt it was inappropriate..guess what...the channel was changed.

[scroff]

Awesome, what is my agenda?

This is sweet!
Don't read what ain't there, Hobbes....

[hobbes]

Don't read what ain't there, Hobbes....

If the shoe fits.....

[scroff]

Anyway, aren't you moving away from the US, or is money more important than principle.
Not real sure what this has to do with the airing of Saving Private Ryan tonight...

[Everose]

They are airing the movie right now on ABC with warnings about graphics, and language used. I am not changing the channel, I am watching it.

But there are a lot of kids out there whose mother is working to help support them while Daddy is off to war. I do worry about them watching it.

It is a pretty good World War II movie, based on a true story. Not very many of our soldiers were happy to be involved in that war either. A large portion of them had joined the National Guard, or Ready Reserves because it paid them a dollar a day to go on maneuvers and beat the fifty cents farmers paid for a day of hard labour.

imho your original post was to attack the FCC for not letting this air for policital reasons.................but maybe I am so used to your posts, I just assumed. Give us the credit to have brains in our heads, please.

[hobbes]

Not real sure what this has to do with the airing of Saving Private Ryan tonight...


You don't like America and it's censorship, you are moving away.

Ruthie said if she had the money she would. Guess she wants money more than truth and freedom abroad.

What about "faith" did you forget that already?

[scroff]

If the shoe fits.....
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm rubber and you're glue....

This has gone straight down the tubes. RF will have his work cut out for him when he comes on....

Go ahead Hobbes, you get the last word...

[hobbes]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm rubber and you're glue....

This has gone straight down the tubes. RF will have his work cut out for him when he comes on....

Go ahead Hobbes, you get the last word...

PSOTFL (Pick Scroff of the floor, laughing). I'm jealous that you and Ruthie are the only ones rolling about, doing the laughing thing.

What is the point of this thread?

If is about censorship, I logically explained why it was not.

[ruthie]

Yes, i thought it was due to political reasons...then everyone jumped on the sensitivity train, coming up with reasons why it shouldn't be shown. I disagree... I think it was fine to air it. It is VETERANS DAY.

[hobbes]

Yes, i thought it was due to political reasons...then everyone jumped on the sensitivity train, coming up with reasons why it shouldn't be shown. I disagree... I think it was fine to air it. It is VETERANS DAY.

Ruthie,

You are the engineer of the sensitivity train.

You might think of others before yourself.

Anyway, it was about money, not censorship.

[hobbes]

Anyway, ABC has it on here in TEXAS. Christ, I'm going to vomit, that camera vibration is really hard on my stomach!

[ruthie]

Ruthie,

You are the engineer of the sensitivity train.

You might think of others before yourself.


I thought you said this was about business? Is it business or sensitivity? Or censorship?

If people don't want to see it they should change the channel. The bottom line is that networks aren't airing it and using the FCC as their excuse... no one is saying it was a decision out of any sensitivity for parents with kids in Iraq. More likely it's because of fear of losing "support" for a nasty war with tenuous support as it is.

I do think of others, I agree with Scroff that the average American has the ability to decide for themselves.

[hobbes]

I thought you said this was about business? Is it business or sensitivity? Or censorship?

If people don't want to see it they should change the channel. The bottom line is that networks aren't airing it and using the FCC as their excuse... no one is saying it was a decision out of any sensitivity for parents with kids in Iraq. More likely it's because of fear of losing "support" for a nasty war with tenuous support as it is.

I do think of others, I agree with Scroff that the average American has the ability to decide for themselves.


I have stated if was a business decision by some stations based on the current situation in Iraq. How many times do I need to type this?

You agree with Scroff, revolutionary.

Did you notice that it is airing in Texas, home of GWB? Try again.

When are you moving? Money over ideals, I would say.

[ruthie]

What does that have to do with anything?

[hobbes]

What does that have to do with anything?


George Bush is from Texas, sweetie. It is aired in his home state.

[Everose]

I thought you said this was about business? Is it business or sensitivity? Or censorship?

If people don't want to see it they should change the channel. The bottom line is that networks aren't airing it and using the FCC as their excuse... no one is saying it was a decision out of any sensitivity for parents with kids in Iraq. More likely it's because of fear of losing "support" for a nasty war with tenuous support as it is.



That is exactly what I saw implied in your first post. I feel what I resent the most is you always think Americans are blind. The last thing you can imagine is that people have totally different opinions than you and still be right.

As far as Scroff's post that Hobbes should wait until Rat Faced gets ahold of this? That is a real threat and I resent that it is a real threat. Once a moderator gets too biased or too emotionally involved, there is no moderating, and that makes a mockery out of good moderaters anywhere. Tis like having our own little FCC on this board. :D

[ruthie]

I have stated if was a business decision by some stations based on the current situation in Iraq. How many times do I need to type this?

You agree with Scroff, revolutionary.

Did you notice that it is airing in Texas, home of GWB? Try again.

When are you moving? Money over ideals, I would say.

Try what again? You were the one who raised the election thing, but you didn't bother to explain yourself. Nice dodge.

You sound like a broken record, Hobbes. Tell you what, post "When are you moving" 100 times and maybe it'll be out of your system. First, we can't afford to move, maybe you missed that, second, Scroff and the rest of my family doesn't want to move, you missed that, too, third, what I decide to do is none of your business, and fourth, you say alot, not much of which has made any sense in this thread. First it's compassion, then it's business, then it's business out of compassion, then it's business for some, compassion for others, and politics for the rest. Ever hear of making up your mind?

[Everose]

Try what again? You were the one who raised the election thing, but you didn't bother to explain yourself. Nice dodge.

You sound like a broken record, Hobbes. Tell you what, post "When are you moving" 100 times and maybe it'll be out of your system. First, we can't afford to move, maybe you missed that, second, Scroff and the rest of my family doesn't want to move, you missed that, too, third, what I decide to do is none of your business, and fourth, you say alot, not much of which has made any sense in this thread. First it's compassion, then it's business, then it's business out of compassion, then it's business for some, compassion for others, and politics for the rest. Ever hear of making up your mind?

**********************************************************

:ohmy: You are right, Hobbes. She sees non of this in herself. That is kind of sad.

[scroff]

As far as Scroff's post that Hobbes should wait until Rat Faced gets ahold of this? That is a real threat and I resent that it is a real threat. Once a moderator gets too biased or too emotionally involved, there is no moderating, and that makes a mockery out of good moderaters anywhere. Tis like having our own little FCC on this board. :D
I said Hobbes should wait until RF gets here??? Where'd I say that? I said RF will have his hands full when he gets on, Everose, then I gave Hobbes the last word in a "discussion" that had deteriorated into flames... myself included....

[ruthie]

George Bush is from Texas, sweetie. It is aired in his home state.

so what.

[ruthie]

**********************************************************

:ohmy: You are right, Hobbes. She sees non of this in herself. That is kind of sad.

ROFLMAO

[Everose]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm rubber and you're glue....

This has gone straight down the tubes. RF will have his work cut out for him when he comes on....

Go ahead Hobbes, you get the last word...




I stand corrected. This is what you told Hobbes in a post to him.

[hobbes]

If one is not believing in the sytem, one must leave.(Versus believing in the sytem but working to envoke change)

Remember that America was built by those with nothing, coming here for a better life, a chance at freedom.


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.


Don't be such a materalist, take your beliefs and go.

A coward dies a thousand deaths....

I am sad, while you and Scroff ROFL. I feel that you are lost, and that my beacon to call you ashore has missed the mark.

[Everose]

ROFLMAO



And that is even sadder.

[scroff]

I stand corrected. This is what you told Hobbes in a post to him.
Um, I know what I told Hobbes...

[Everose]

I know you do, Scroff. I went and searched for it, and posted it to show you were right. ;)

[ruthie]

If one is not believing in the sytem, one must leave.(Versus believing in the sytem but working to envoke change)

Remember that America was built by those with nothing, coming here for a better life, a chance at freedom.


Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.


Don't be such a materalist, take your beliefs and go.

A coward dies a thousand deaths....

I am sad, while you and Scroff ROFL. I feel that you are lost, and that my beacon to call you ashore has missed the mark.

We are ROFL at your posts Hobbes.... wasn't that your intention?

Look, when I said I would like to move it was mostly an expression of frustration and disgust. You, the bastion of sensitivity, should recognize that. But if my family decided to move I would. Scroff, on the other hand, most likely would not... But I find it interesting that you believe people who don't agree with the system should move... remeniscient of "Love it or leave it" I would say... I suspect that, given that belief, you would have been a Tory during the Revolutionary War...

[hobbes]

We are ROFL at your posts Hobbes.... wasn't that your intention?

Look, when I said I would like to move it was mostly an expression of frustration and disgust. You, the bastion of sensitivity, should recognize that. But if my family decided to move I would. Scroff, on the other hand, most likely would not... But I find it interesting that you believe people who don't agree with the system should move... remeniscient of "Love it or leave it" I would say... I suspect that, given that belief, you would have been a Tory during the Revolutionary War...


See, now that has me really angry.

I NEVER said that.

I said that if you think the system does not work, you should leave. If you think the system does work and you can effect change, then you should stay in pursuit of your ideals.

You are not reading what I am saying.

To say that my contention is "love it or leave it" is about as insulting an accusation as one can give.

Do really believe that is what I think. Has everthing I have posted been lost because you only interpret things as you choose?

Pathetic, disgusting, insulting.

[scroff]

If you had any insight, you might choose a different story
You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you.Thank god for that. Nice edit, btw...

[hobbes]

Thank god for that. Nice edit, btw...

Yes, you have turned the swing voters against you. The only ones you could hope to change. You must be proud of shooting yourself in the foot.

I edit all the time becuase of typo's or to clarify, I have no clue to which you are referring.

[scroff]

See, now that has me really angry.

I NEVER said that.

I said that if you think the system does not work, you should leave. If you think the system does work and you can effect change, then you should stay in pursuit of your ideals.

You are not reading what I am saying.

To say that my contention is "love it or leave it" is about as insulting an accusation that one can give.

Do really believe that is what I think. Has everthing I have posted been lost because you only interpret things as you choose?

Pathetic, disgusting, insulting.
Let's see... you said "If one is not believing in the sytem, one must leave.(Versus believing in the sytem but working to envoke change)"

Yup, that's what I thought... if you don't believe in the system you must leave... whether or not you "work to envoke change". I don't see anywhere in there where it says you can not believe in the system and stay... sounds like "Love it or leave it" to me... must have been a typo, eh? You should have edited it...

btw, I lied when I said you could have the last word... :cool:

[scroff]

Yes, you have turned the swing voters against you. The only ones you could hope to change. You must be proud of shooting yourself in the foot.

I edit all the time becuase of typo's or to clarify, I have no clue to which you are referring.
C'mon, Hobbes, you should know that changing the swing voters isn't part of my awful, disgusting agenda... but pissing off people like you is. :lol:

[hobbes]

Let's see... you said "If one is not believing in the sytem, one must leave.(Versus believing in the sytem but working to envoke change)"

Yup, that's what I thought... if you don't believe in the system you must leave... whether or not you "work to envoke change". I don't see anywhere in there where it says you can not believe in the system and stay... sounds like "Love it or leave it" to me... must have been a typo, eh? You should have edited it...

btw, I lied when I said you could have the last word... :cool:

Well you read as you wish. You are a lost cause.

I try to have a reasonable discussion, you just want to twist words. Your loss, not mine.

You can lie to impress your forum friends, but niether of you actually believes that my philosophy is love it or leave it. That is just your political rhetoric, in your binary world.

[Everose]

C'mon, Hobbes, you should know that changing the swing voters isn't part of my awful, disgusting agenda... but pissing off people like you is. :lol:
Re: Marines on the frontlines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
To help me understand who your enemy is, Scroff, would you say it is everyone in America who voted for Bush, and possibly all of those who didn't vote? And also, I would like to ask you if you have any aspirations to teaching these Bush voters the error of their ways, or to alienate them even further with your views?
**********************************************************
If you have to ask you must be one

I think the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean InSannity, Michael "Savage", Joe (hey, what's this dead woman doing in my office???) Scarborough, and their millions of listeners have already alienated and divided this country... I could do no better.

The enemy are people who send out emails like this "We will also soon be implementing a more responsive ranking system where your organizational rank will be determined by your participation in our world-wide effort to destroy the left intellectually."

or

"I could not hold back the tears of joy. Hour by hour, we observed a "slam dunk" as the Church of Jesus Christ made the difference in initiating the return of this nation to moral sanity and the Judeo-Christian ethic."

That's but a few examples....

At this point, I'm not trying to do anything with these folks, they are beyond teaching... but those "swing voters" aren't. After a few mopre years of the Moral Majority running the show, I think people will return to a saner viewpoint.



So the swing voter are, or are not part of your agenda, Scroff?

[hobbes]

Re: Marines on the frontlines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
To help me understand who your enemy is, Scroff, would you say it is everyone in America who voted for Bush, and possibly all of those who didn't vote? And also, I would like to ask you if you have any aspirations to teaching these Bush voters the error of their ways, or to alienate them even further with your views?
**********************************************************
If you have to ask you must be one

I think the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean InSannity, Michael "Savage", Joe (hey, what's this dead woman doing in my office???) Scarborough, and their millions of listeners have already alienated and divided this country... I could do no better.

The enemy are people who send out emails like this "We will also soon be implementing a more responsive ranking system where your organizational rank will be determined by your participation in our world-wide effort to destroy the left intellectually."

or

"I could not hold back the tears of joy. Hour by hour, we observed a "slam dunk" as the Church of Jesus Christ made the difference in initiating the return of this nation to moral sanity and the Judeo-Christian ethic."

That's but a few examples....

At this point, I'm not trying to do anything with these folks, they are beyond teaching... but those "swing voters" aren't. After a few mopre years of the Moral Majority running the show, I think people will return to a saner viewpoint.



So the swing voter are, or are not part of your agenda, Scroff?


Yes, I knew this post was there. This post is exactly why I said what I did.

[scroff]

Well you read as you wish. You are a lost cause.

I try to have a reasonable discussion, you just want to twist words. Your loss, not mine.

You can lie to impress your forum friends, but niether of you actually believes that my philosophy is love it or leave it. That is just your political rhetoric, in your binary world.
How many times you going to edit this one Hobbes? This is the second so far...

I just read what you wrote and offered my interpretation of it... I'll leave it to others to draw their own conclusions...

[hobbes]

How many times you going to edit this one Hobbes? This is the second so far...

I just read what you wrote and offered my interpretation of it... I'll leave it to others to draw their own conclusions...

So, when I said, "that is not what I meant". What did that mean to you.

Does that meant I support "love it or leave it" or was that more of a clarification to someone who really missed the point?

Hmmm. Obvious. Keep twisting as necessary.

Why don't you ask me if I support, "love it or leave it". I say "no". Is that clear enough?

I just don't like emotive posts about people wanting to leave the country when they are spouting emotional drivel.

Got it. is that clear enough?

Do the edits change the meaning? No, not one iota.

[scroff]

Re: Marines on the frontlines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everose
To help me understand who your enemy is, Scroff, would you say it is everyone in America who voted for Bush, and possibly all of those who didn't vote? And also, I would like to ask you if you have any aspirations to teaching these Bush voters the error of their ways, or to alienate them even further with your views?
**********************************************************
If you have to ask you must be one

I think the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean InSannity, Michael "Savage", Joe (hey, what's this dead woman doing in my office???) Scarborough, and their millions of listeners have already alienated and divided this country... I could do no better.

The enemy are people who send out emails like this "We will also soon be implementing a more responsive ranking system where your organizational rank will be determined by your participation in our world-wide effort to destroy the left intellectually."

or

"I could not hold back the tears of joy. Hour by hour, we observed a "slam dunk" as the Church of Jesus Christ made the difference in initiating the return of this nation to moral sanity and the Judeo-Christian ethic."

That's but a few examples....

At this point, I'm not trying to do anything with these folks, they are beyond teaching... but those "swing voters" aren't. After a few mopre years of the Moral Majority running the show, I think people will return to a saner viewpoint.
So the swing voter are, or are not part of your agenda, Scroff?
You'll have to ask Hobbes, he's the one that insists I have some sick twisted disgusting agenda... I always thought I was exersizing my first amendment rights...

[hobbes]

You'll have to ask Hobbes, he's the one that insists I have some sick twisted disgusting agenda... I always thought I was exersizing my first amendment rights...


I said you have an agenda (which you have admitted- Getting rid of Bush) and you twist words, as you are doing again.

Are truth and reality difficult for you?

[ruthie]

I believe I said that was my agenda. LOL

[hobbes]

I believe I said that was my agenda. LOL

What is this some sort of distraction from what you said about me earlier? You have really pissed me off.

[Everose]

From what I have seen, Hobbes listens to you. And it might be he feels as I do.......you have your rights to express your opinion. I have seen him agree with many of your posts. But when he tries to express his, or questions a post of yours and its intent, it is not taken kindly, it is not even taken. It is dismissed with your and Ruthie laughing out loud on the floor at him. imho

[scroff]

So, when I said, "that is not what I meant". What did that mean to you.You didn't say that until now. Here's what you said;

"I NEVER said that.

I said that if you think the system does not work, you should leave. If you think the system does work and you can effect change, then you should stay in pursuit of your ideals."

Which isn't at all what you said. With all the editing you do I would think you would have caught your typo. Rather than admit making a typo, you accuse me of twisting your words. That sounds alot to me like Bush not being willing to admit he's made any mistakes, hmmm.....


Does that meant I support "love it or leave it" or was that more of a clarification to someone who really missed the point?I didn't miss the point, you made a typo, I guess, according to all this other stuff you're saying.


I just don't like emotive posts about people wanting to leave the country when they are spouting emotional drivel.

Got it. is that clear enough?
And here I thought you were the "sensitive" one....


Do the edits change the meaning? No, not one iota.
I guess, if people don't see the original post, they won't know if it changes the meaning, will they?

[ruthie]

What is this some sort of distraction from what you said about me earlier? You have really pissed me off.

No, I am correcting you. I said that was my agenda.

[hobbes]

No, I am correcting you. I said that was my agenda.

I'm talking about your pathetic "love it or leave it comments". Way below the belt, IMHO.

[scroff]

I said you have an agenda (which you have admitted- Getting rid of Bush) and you twist words, as you are doing again.

Are truth and reality difficult for you?
I may have said, at some point, that my agenda was getting rid of Bush... perhaps tomorrow I'll go back over all my posts and see.

But I don't see how I'm twisting words when I am quoting you... You're saying you haven't said I have some disgusting agenda?

[hobbes]

Scroff,

What typo. I still don't see it?

[hobbes]

I may have said, at some point, that my agenda was getting rid of Bush... perhaps tomorrow I'll go back over all my posts and see.

But I don't see how I'm twisting words when I am quoting you... You're saying you haven't said I have some disgusting agenda?

I said that how you are going about it is not without spin. I have attempted to point this spin out.

I NEVER said that your agenda was sick nor disgusting. That is just a simple fabrication.

[hobbes]

To avoid a confusing edit, the post that Ruthie quoted had my edit to clarify in () and your reply to same thread came much later. That edit was added specifically to prevent someone from using that "love it or leave it" nonsence.

[Busyman]

First off.....

Live in America but hate America.

:angry: :01: STFU!!!! and GTFO!!!! :01: :angry:


....of the country. Go elsewhere. Why stay someplace that you hate so much? We sure as hell don't want you here. If you are going to stay, what are you doing to change it? This goes for other countries as well.

Second off
People can change the channel

But lastly
Fear of FCC fines is bullshit. Seeing that the movie has been shown before, the subject matter down to the nooks and crannies of the movie is known. Either the networks have clearance or not. This is not a LIVE show. There are no surprises.

It could be political appeasement or mere sensitivity. You all are starting to sound like rambling bitches with this "over-and-over" shit.

[hobbes]

First off.....


Second off
People can change the channel

But lastly
Fear of FCC fines is bullshit. Seeing that the movie has been shown before, the subject matter down to the nooks and crannies of the movie is known. Either the networks have clearance or not. This is not a LIVE show. There are no surprises.

It could be political appeasement or mere sensitivity. You all are starting to sound like rambling bitches with this "over-and-over" shit.


You like haunches :1eye:

[scroff]

I said that how you are going about it is not without spin. I have attempted to point this spin out.

I NEVER said that your agenda was sick nor disgusting. That is just a simple fabrication.
That may be true, perhaps the "You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you." may have confused me, I don't know...

[ruthie]

If you had any insight, you might choose a different story.

You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you.

I believe it was this one. Page 2, post number 17

[hobbes]

That may be true, perhaps the "You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you." may have confused me, I don't know...

A politcal agenda that attempts to fit all observable occurances into said framework is "sickening". It means that the mind is closed to either modification or an interest in truth.

A sick agenda is one that supports eating babies.

There is nothing wrong with having a viewpoint, I have NEVER objected to alternative points of view. I do object as to how one goes about presenting it.

Again, you're just quibbling.


edit- no edit

[hobbes]

I believe it was this one. Page 2, post number 17
stick with the matter at hand. You are changing the subject.

So you 2 actually thought that a Kerry voter thought that your oppostion of Bush was "sick". Particularly given my prior posts.

Yeah, right. You guys are just looking to quibble how to spin a word and care not to ignore the content of my posts.

[ruthie]

The subject was the refusal by some stations to air the movie.

[Rip The Jacker]

Saving Private Ryan rawks. :01:

[scroff]

A politcal agenda that attempts to fit all observable occurances into said framework is "sickening". It means that the mind is closed to either modification or an interest in truth.

A sick agenda is one that supports eating babies.

There is nothing wrong with having a viewpoint, I have NEVER objected to alternative points of view. I do object as to how one goes about presenting it.

Again, you're just quibbling.


edit- no edit
How am I quibbling???? You said you never said I had a sick agenda, I find it and post it for you and you say I'm quibbling? Now you say a sick agenda is one that supports eating babies? Trying to point out the difference between a sick agenda and a sickening agenda jus tot save face is pretty silly.

[hobbes]

I just saw on CNN that even if WMD are not found in Iraq, 81% of Americans consider the war on Iraq justified.

Are we really that stupid and brainwashed?

I've been awake for 36 hours and my keyboard has been mysteriously been rearranged, but even I can't believe this.

I was afraid of this, hence my post, "Who cares about the people of Iraq?", which was to keep people focused on the justification of the war, not to be distracted by the "liberation of the oppressed" hype.

Troops returning home, fathers reunited with their children- stock response tripe. I'm embarrassed for my country. You bunch of stupid hicks! Check to see if there is a hand up your ass, because you are nothing but puppets. Don't let the prestidigitators fool you.


Here is an old post from 2003 to give you a little context.

[hobbes]

How am I quibbling???? You said you never said I had a sick agenda, I find it and post it for you and you say I'm quibbling? Now you say a sick agenda is one that supports eating babies? Trying to point out the difference between a sick agenda and a sickening agenda jus tot save face is pretty silly.

The way you support your agenda is sickening.

See, easy to clear up.

We are just wondering why you lied about not posting in order to win over the swing vote.

[scroff]

stick with the matter at hand. You are changing the subject.

So you 2 actually thought that a Kerry voter thought that your oppostion of Bush was "sick". Particularly given my prior posts.

Yeah, right. You guys are just looking to quibble how to spin a word and care not to ignore the content of my posts.
Well, let's see... you've said we run a propagandist site, you accuse us of posting political propaganda, you say our political agenda is sickening, and yet here you seem to implie that you agree with our sickening propaganda? I'm confused.

[hobbes]

Well, let's see... you've said we run a propagandist site, you accuse us of posting political propaganda, you say our political agenda is sickening, and yet here you seem to implie that you agree with our sickening propaganda? I'm confused.

I find the way you attempt to sell your POV sickening as it is full of partial truths. As above.

[scroff]

The way you support your agenda is sickening.

See, easy to clear up.

We are just wondering why you lied about not posting in order to win over the swing vote.
We?

I didn't lie, I told Everose to ask you about my agenda. I still don't see what my agenda is. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

If you read the post I'm assuming you're referring to;

"At this point, I'm not trying to do anything with these folks, they are beyond teaching... but those "swing voters" aren't. After a few mopre years of the Moral Majority running the show, I think people will return to a saner viewpoint."

you'll notice I didn't say it was my agenda, my job, my goal, my objective, my intention, my desire or my wish to reach swing voters. I said that after a few more years of the Moral Majority (this btw, is not a deragatory reference, but what they have called themselves, until recently, they refer to themselves as The Faith and Values Coalition) running the show views will change.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, that should be obvious. My agenda, if I must have one, is to express my views.

[scroff]

I find the way you attempt to sell your POV sickening as it is full of partial truths.You said that already. I got it. So what?


As aboveAs above what? You're denying it's true?

[hobbes]

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, that should be obvious. My agenda, if I must have one, is to express my views.

I am trying to change, not just people's minds, but how they express themselves, to maximize the effect of their messages.

I will state my opinions in order that they be subject to the perspectives of others. If I am enlightened, I will modify my thoughts.

I am after agenda-less discussion, not politcal propaganda.

I express my views, but I don't presume that they are always correct.

The board is yours.....................

[scroff]

I am trying to change, not just people's minds, but how they express themselves, to maximize the effect of their messages.

I will state my opinions in order that they be subject to the perspectives of others. If I am enlightened, I will modify my thoughts.

I am after agenda-less discussion, not politcal propaganda.

I express my views, but I don't presume that they are always correct.

The board is yours.....................If you are looking for agenda-less discussion, not political propaganda, then I suggest you address the posts you feel are propaganda with what you might concieve as a rational argument rather than simply dismiss them as such. If you're trying to change how I express my views, calling my opinions propaganda and my method of expressing them sickening will have little effect.

Rather than dismiss me as a propagandist, you might take some time to either investigate what I say or dispute it, with facts, cited, not your opinion. Rather than take single posts and judge them unworthy, you might try seeing the overall message. While I have a bias, it is because I need to be convinced before I change my opinion. Someone else's opinion will rarely sway mine... I have an opinion, I don't need yours. If you present me with a fact based argument, I can be swayed. An example is Social Security reform. I was against it until presented with the facts from the Cato Institute. While I remain sceptical, I am more receptive to it.

If you choose to be abbrasive, let me assure you I give as good as I get.

I considered sending this as a PM, so as not to subject the board to a long post specifically directed to you, but as you have taken liberties expressing your opinions of my beliefs and opinions, I thought I'd do the same.

[cpt_azad]

If you had any insight, you might choose a different story.

You and Ruthie and your sickening political agenda have turned this neutral person, and voter for Kerry, completely against you.hey hobbes, you're the kind of person that'll eat shit if the gov't or your beloved FCC told you to. this is the most extreme case of censorship, and i agree whole heartedly, this is an insult to our veterans that gave up their lives without even thinking about it from WW1 to today.


edit: i know you're entitled to your opinion (hobbes), as am i.

[Cheese]

The BBC has, on rare occassions, pulled movies because of events in the world and that it would be insensitive to show them. I see no real problem with this as they usually tell the viewers that the film will be shown sometime in the future.

[MagicNakor]

This thread has devolved so far that if anyone wants to talk about the FCC's actions, they'll have to start a new one.

Keep the personal sniping to a minimum, please.

:shuriken:

[Rat Faced]

**********************************************************

I disagree. For one instance, all of your ridicule for people that believe in God, or as you call them, the moral majority. How will this ridicule help? It didn't help in the election, believe me. A lot of people believe in God in the US. Have you given a thought to try to reach these people by telling them that they can be moral, such as using a frozen embroyo to save the life of a nine year old child with diabetes? No, you attack them and call them all ignorant, attack their president, who believes in God. How do you think you can change people to your viewpoint? You have already expressed your hate for the people who voted for Bush, without considering they could be really intelligent people that based this viewpoint on their concerns about the type of President Kerry would make. I feel this same way about the far right conservatives that have damaged their party more than they want to admit.


Having met ruthie and scroff..

I have to say they are actually two of the nicest and most caring people i have ever met, with far more than their fair share of compassion. To say they are hateful because they want people to think for themselves, rather than let institutions tell them what to do seems rather facetious.

[Rat Faced]

hey hobbes, you're the kind of person that'll eat shit if the gov't or your beloved FCC told you to. this is the most extreme case of censorship, and i agree whole heartedly, this is an insult to our veterans that gave up their lives without even thinking about it from WW1 to today.


edit: i know you're entitled to your opinion (hobbes), as am i.

No, Hobbes isnt the type that will.

Hobbes has his own opinions, and does not rely on others to form them for him.

I certainly respect his views and opinion because of this, even on those occasions when we are not on the same side of an argument.

Now lets keep the personal crap out of this please.

[Rat Faced]

Re-Opened, as i believe Hobbes has a right to reply to the accusation...

[vidcc]

on subject i believe the reason it was chosen to not show it by some channels was because of the foul language that wasn't allowed to be edited out and thus fears of FCC fines.... nothing to do with violence

[peat moss]

You know ,I would let my little ones watch it. War is Hell ,its not pretty .We coudle our children and hide the truth from them. Their smarter than we give credit. As much as I love mine, the world can be an ugly place, I for one hope I prepaire them well! :(

Edit: This coming from a half Scottish and German household. Don't you think I had a few questions to answer . I watch a movie like Stalg 17 and have to explain to a 7 year old why not all Germans are bad. :blink: