PDA

View Full Version : There Is No War! Its A Fake!



ne1GotZardoz
03-31-2003, 10:53 AM
You have been mislead for decades!

Your government has only been telling you we were at war to keep you under control!

The military actions are staged.

Haven't you wonder why all the soldiers look alike?

Because they are the same group of 'ACTORS'!!!

Have you seen a war?

Personally??

You can't trust anyone!

The people around you, friends, uncles, fathers who claim to have been in a war...they were all brainwashed by your governments into believing they fought in some battle or other.

Don't let them control you!

Don't believe what you see on TV!

Its all one big movie!!!

***********************
This message brought to you by:

CONSPIRACY CENTRAL

We're the ones to trust.
Honest!
***********************

:lol: :D :rolleyes: ;)

Schmiggy_JK23
03-31-2003, 11:02 AM
This has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read.

1. I havent seen God, but I believe in him.
2. I havent been in outter space, but everything shows it there.
3. When that damn tree falls in the woods, and no ones there, and I go back to see it, and its fallen, id have to say it fell.

Just because you dont see something with your own eyes, doesnt mean its a fallacy.

You were born right? Out of your mothers womb? How do you know? You didnt see it, recollection wise, or remember it... maybe you were randomly generated.

idiotic....

ne1GotZardoz
03-31-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@31 March 2003 - 06:02
This has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read.

1. I havent seen God, but I believe in him.
2. I havent been in outter space, but everything shows it there.
3. When that damn tree falls in the woods, and no ones there, and I go back to see it, and its fallen, id have to say it fell.

Just because you dont see something with your own eyes, doesnt mean its a fallacy.

You were born right? Out of your mothers womb? How do you know? You didnt see it, recollection wise, or remember it... maybe you were randomly generated.

idiotic....
You were born?

Out of a..What was that word...Womb??

Whats this about a space?

Some people will believe anything.:)

Barbarossa
03-31-2003, 01:20 PM
This is in extraordinarily bad taste considering the bodies of 10 UK soldiers have just been flown back to the UK to be buried by their families.

Maybe you'd like to explain to them how a fake war has killed their loved ones. :(

ezyryder
03-31-2003, 01:47 PM
bad taste, true. I also think someone has miss-understood 1984 to a large extent, so I am guessing he watched the movie? The novel isn't so much how the government lie but how 'authority' makes you believe whats not true. Oceana is a totalitarian state where everyone knew that it was strange when the view-screens came up with new facts. People still should have known that this never happend, but the power of authority held over them by Big Brother led them to defy the laws of physics and math - logic basically. I think authority was one of the main themes in the novel as well as love and relationships (such as O'Brian, he really cared for Winston and shocking him was upsetting).

longterm
03-31-2003, 04:00 PM
It's not that the war is fake. Please do not alienate large groups of people by telling them there is no fire while their hair is burning. Rather, look to the underlying causes. There are some. (I do not recommend anyone checking too deeply into this if you have kids or spouses you're responsible for. Making them orphans and widows is not conducive to a good future.) The future is my concern. A few tips, for all of you reading this.
If you want to know why something is being done, or who it is being done by, merely ask yourself, "Who benefits?"
Who benefits?......Who benefits?......
Well let's apply this to the Iraq situation, and see what we can come up with, shall we?
Is it the Iraqis? I don't know. I haven't been there, and I do not trust our, (U.S.), television.
Is it the rest of the world, especially those countries which have developed (or traded for) the same technologies which Iraq...(and the U.S.) both have?
Doubt it, unless making smaller countries paranoid as all get out is a positive thing.
Is it the general-civilian population of the U.S. in general? My, how we love to be loathed worldwide! Um, actually, we don't like that. At all. No. We don't benefit.
Let's see...no one "appears" to benefit.
Oh, wait! Wait!
Does the "actual" power structure running the U.S. benefit?
Let's see what the government has to reap:
1. More $ for war. ("Must keep fighting those terrorists! They're gonna kill us!")
2. More freedom in branding certain activities as "terrorism", which, of course, allows government to sidestep the Geneva Convention. (They're not "War Criminals", they're terrorists, and we'll take any steps necessary to eradicate them!")
3. Alienation of most of the rest of the world, which will allow for either Bush, or whichever President happens to be in office at the time, (It might take a couple years yet, but watch for it...it's coming!), to take an "Us against Them" stance regarding the free World, which, of course, allows for martial law and complete emergency footing for........well, forever, I guess. ("Does anyone have a match...I want to light my cigar. Oh, just pass me the Declaration of Independence, it's almost burnt to nothing, but it's still on fire! You used it to light the Constitution?
Well, that shows some vim there! You didn't really need to, though. The United States has been in a declared "State of Emergency" for decades!")
I'll write again shortly about what "that" situation has been able to bring to pass!

longterm
03-31-2003, 04:07 PM
This is for ezyryder.
Have you forgotten the part in 1984 when O'Brien says to Winston:
"You want to see what the future looks like? Imagine a boot stamping on a human face. That's the future. Forever."

I had to paraphrase, since the book has been lent to someone, but this is not a declaration by a person capable of what "love" is. It is a statement of power. O'Brien loved power...not Winston. Winston was merely another in a long line of broken men, broken by the code which O'Brien applied to life.

Thoughts?

ezyryder
03-31-2003, 04:47 PM
It is all down to ones interpretation, but yes I see why you said that. I didn't suggest O'Brien loved Winston but in his words, when he was shocking Winston, there was an element of guilt and hypocrisy. O’Brien throughout the book did seem on a more civilized level than most. If I do remember correctly then O’Brien was nice to Winston throughout. Do you remember the time when he turned off his Viewing-Screen and it surprised Winston? I felt O'Brien saw himself in Winston; O’Brien didn't love big brother but the power instead. With love for power came more knowledge of the “truth” and with this knowledge came responsibilities, which is why he had to shock Winston and reintegrate him.

As for the quote, think about it this way, would someone in love with big brother say that? It sounds like the views of someone not blinded by love and propaganda but fuelled by power. So yes, I agree largely with what you are saying but I think there was still an element of hypocrisy and care in there (sorry this has all gone off at tangents, my mind is thinking ahead of what I am typing)

ezyryder
03-31-2003, 04:54 PM
I am aware I am no doubt bleathering a whole load of nonsense :)
I have to read the book again, it has been years and I wasn't so old when i read it! So my interpretation is probably wrong, but I still feel authority was one of the main themes, do you not agree?

kAb
03-31-2003, 05:36 PM
hey morons, he was kidding.



***********************
This message brought to you by:

CONSPIRACY CENTRAL

We're the ones to trust.
Honest!
***********************
:lol: :D  :rolleyes: ;)

j2k4
03-31-2003, 05:41 PM
I know the war is real because the media tells me so. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Question: If an event occurs, and the media doesn't report it, did it actually happen?

longterm
03-31-2003, 07:02 PM
This message is again for ezyryder.
Today is my first day here, and I'm pleased to respond to what you wrote, and I essentially agree with you. You are correct when you say the book's main theme was power.
However, it also very clearly illustrated HOW that power was to be maintained indefinitely, and THAT is the important aspect. Just wait until you see my first true posting, one which I've spent over an hour typing! (I'm going to post it once I'm done here, and man, will we have alot to discuss!! Whooweee!
Alright. Here goes nothing. (Rather, here goes everything.)
Later.

longterm
03-31-2003, 07:12 PM
My first posting here. (not a reply to another posting) I just have a few opinions, and would love feedback on them. I'm willing to answer any and all queries, so someone out there prove me wrong without making me dead. (Insert a grin here, please.) I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm biased. I want to live to enjoy MY life, and I want you to live and enjoy YOURS. It's that...damned...simple. With that in mind:
On with the show!
TOP TEN QUESTIONS I'D LIKE TO SEE PRESIDENT BUSH ANSWER LIVE:
(I will include here and there book titles and authors which illuminate or pose similar issues.)
10. If you "are" committed to the New World Order, will the rest of the world be brought "up" to the U.S. standard of living, or will the U.S. continue to edge toward being a 3rd world country, with ACTUAL ever growing inadequate:
Food, shelter, education, health care?
Try reading:
"Constitution: Fact or Fiction--The Story of the Nation's Descent from a Constitutional Republic through a Constitutional Dictatorship to an Unconstitutional Dictatorship", by Dr. Eugene Schroder-with Micki Nellis
9. Can you prove, without strongarm tactics, that Osama bin Laden was not acting in the interests of the "ruling class" of the U.S., seeing as how the CIA did "happen" to give him, (and consequently his men), in the name of fighting for freedom,
training and $? (Which would, of course, trace the perpetrators of 9/11 attacks to a location distinctly different than that of Afghanistan...or Iraq.)
Try reading both, 1984, and Animal Farm, both by George Orwell.
8. Was Osama bin Laden "so" steeped in American psychology as to understand the ramifications of using...that...one...date, to attack? 9-11?
Emergency, anyone? Just call 911! Oh, that also "happens" to be the day when our country's ENTIRE paradigm shifted so that a new, long-term program was neatly installed to implant mistrust and hate.
How easily done! Communism gone? No need for wiretapping? No need for mail tampering? No need for incorrectly preparing our students for life? No need for CIA? Not on this watch! Ever!
Hmm. Try reading:
"Who Will Tell The People: The Betrayal of American Democracy" by William Greider.
7. Are there any differences between the slaves of the 1700s and 1800s and the average American citizen today? ("Yes, plenty! Look at all the new cars, computer games, movies, airplanes, trains, telephones, medicines, operations, information, etc.")
Okay, I'll rephrase:
Slaves had, in general, inadequate housing, poor educational opportunities, little mobility, little privacy,
minimal food requirements, many losses of offspring, due to selling by owner, minimal recourses to injury or health, since replacing them was, oft times, considered cheaper.
Today, U.S. citizens "enjoy": Inadequate housing, some of which was brought about by meetings between bankers of other countries, (It was decided, outside the U.S., that low-income housing was to be classified as a "high-risk" proposition, thus ensuring that few, if any, American banks would underwrite such projects in the future.)
Incomplete and faulty education, which ensures a high number of "servers" to serve those born into "higher" (more wealthy) families, and also ensures fewer questions when told to put their necks on the line.
("Don't think. Just do it." Aahhh. Thank you Nike. What a cogent summation of America, (read as especially anyone under 40.)
Overdrugging of children, especially if, God forbid, they ask alot of questions, and don't seem able to concentrate for as long as, say, a 30 year-old. (My, your 8-year old acts "just" like a child! "I know. I'm so ashamed!" Hmm.
This brings us...FINALLY...to the question!
(remember the top 10 questions for the Prez?)
(rephrased #7):What, specifically, are YOU doing, to ensure that U.S. is not turned into another 3rd world country, since economists know that war footing is disastrous for freedom, and real prosperity.
Try reading:
"Power and Prosperity: Outgrowing Communist and Capitalist Dictatorships" by Mancur Olson
6. If it is true that only about 100 years of oil are theorized to remain on the planet, (and I understand it's merely a theory, and an estimate), what steps are being taken by the Oil Companies to ensure that they will remain viable entities beyond 100 years? In other words, are they branching out into technological areas which will keep them at the top of the power food chain, so that when the oil runs dry, they will still have humanity "over a barrel", so to speak?
Does it involve eliminating cash as a viable spending unit, and does it tie into the creation of the Euro-dollar?
5. Since nothing lasts forever, and the U.S. government is not exactly "God Itself", and the government knows this, what steps have the past administrations taken to ensure that future administrations would be well nigh invulnerable to an "actual" democracy, and what are your "think tanks" coming up with to discredit anyone with a brain and an interest in life and love?
(Remember, extremes cancel each other out. It's been pointed out that in Iraq, Saddam was "voted" in with 100% of the vote. 100%. We know that's a sham. Now, look at us, in the U.S.
By way of showing.... just.... how....democratic.... we.... are..... OUR country sits and waits, while OUR leader is voted in by a margin of a FEW THOUSAND. WOW! IT MUST BE A FREE COUNTRY! By the way, please ignore the fact that the discrepancy which gave our leader the chair....just....so ....happened....to be in the 1 out of 50
states of which his brother was Governer. Well! Don't that beat all! What an AMAZING coincidence.
(Go freedom! Wo-hoo!))
4. Where does your look of smugness come from, when "your" people are being killed? You don't really seem to ponder anything, and when you do, you chuckle. You either listen with a "cat that got the canary, and a contract that delivers all future canaries to your mouth" grin, or talk with a smack the podium "We've GOT to do it, it's just so damned reviling what the man does! Wooo it makes me shiver with rage!" style. And if it's true, what about what YOU said , and I'm quoting here, Mr. President,
"I hate lies and deception." And then you repeated it!
Does this mean that: You're ready to tell the American people about the truth behind the "War on this...and the War on that?" The truth about how:
Under the War Powers, given the American President, in a declared State of Emergency, which we've been in since 1933, YOU, Mr. Bush, are delegated THESE powers, withOUT reference to normal constitutional process:
seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of ways, control the lives of all American citizens.
Let's hear the truth, baby! You "hate" lies and deception. Apologize to the people, and return control of their government to them, and stop having controlled crisis, which allow you to solidify your power and condemn all those who love freedom.
Try reading the Declaration of Independence. Mayhap the Constitution? How about: "Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, " reported by James Madison, with an introduction by Adrienne Koch.
3. Are you aware of how many of Clinton's bodyguards, (and others around him) died while he was in office, and do you think it's strange, or do you just go by the, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs." (Actually, a more accurate phrasing might read: If you want to keep the money where it is, you have to kill some poor bastards.), credo of power?
2. Do you TRULY....and this is a doozy....'cause it could be your soul we're talking about here (but you do have to sorta believe in God for it to carry any meaning)....do you TRULY think you're a man of God, regardless of what faith you check in the box? (Protestant, Catholic, etc) If so, which God? Where in YOUR bible does it say,
"Yes, you may lie and oppress your people when you have the chance, because they would do the same to you, and screw the future and all those who might vary in opinion, 'cause quite frankly, Mr. Bush...you are the Man!" My bible doesn't say that.
Get the world good and mad at the U.S., so that if we're thrown out of the U.N. or if we decide to leave on our own, why, that's just a great reason to throw up a psychological wall around America and get us good and ready to die for just about any reason, would you just say please, Mr. President, I'll send my kids over to die, because it MUST be those people, we can't understand their language, so they MUST be wrong, why they don't even speak English, how COULD they be right, or not even RIGHT...why should they even live, when American people could use that land and oil really well for themselves, and please, will someone impregnate me so that I may send my child to die for lies? Please? Don't send your kids, Mr. President, or ANY kids from the "ruling class". (After all: "What good is it being a Congressman or Senator if I can't skate outside the lines? I make the laws, I should be able to break them! Why send my kid? They might grow up to be somebody! Get some kid from a public school! What do you think they're there for? To make decisions that'll affect where I park? Not on your life!")
I am sure that many are dying, both Iraqis and Americans. I'm sure both sides have been inflamed to a good pitch, and I'm sure that both sides will commit atrocities, when defined as "brutal". War is brutal. What I question is not the character of the Americans in Iraq fighting as they've been trained. It is the ACTUAL reason we're there that poses the dilemma. We kill people here, all the time, and innocent ones too, and the method does not change the outcome. Dead is dead. I happen to love this country, very much. But I love it in a way that is considered, and being rendered, obsolete. I think we are "supposed" to be free to speak our minds, and do as we wanted, barring that what we wanted was to harm another person, in some way, be it to their person, their family or their livelihood.
Also freedom to teach and raise our kids how we saw fit. Failure to do so in a competent way is its own consequence. We do not have this freedom.
My last question I'd love to see Mr. Bush answer live is this:
1. What steps are being taken to make sure that "coalition forces" will not take back another type of disease, such as Gulf War Syndrome, which may infect people other than spouses, since there's been OVER a decade to REFINE and DESIGN NEW chemical and biological weaponry, and which MAY have a MUCH longer incubate time, to allow for what we THINK are "safe returns", and how do we know whether or not the areas which our troops are going over right now have NOT been heavily sprayed with passive contaminants so that every step they take gets them closer to a second contaminant that will turn the passive one active? How do we know whether the 2nd agent is to be applied in Iraq...or in our country?
You seem well able to document every sneeze which results in another accidental death.
Has anyone in your think tanks thought of these things, or are you counting on them?

Try reading:
"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", by Charlotte Iserbyte (I may have the last name wrong by a couple letters, but it's darned close!)
Also try:
"The Handmaid's Tale" by Margeret Atwood
"Dune" by Frank Herbert (Written in 1965, to get the original story. His son, Brian, carries on the story remarkably well, but the underlying vision, and the underlying wisdom (Actually, the whole series, and for those less inclined to read all 6 books completely, if you go through and read all the little introductions to each chapter, you get a pretty nice summary of wisdom hard to find in this world.) One of my favorite authors for sheer scope and audacity of vision. A remarkable man, and easily my choice if I were asked who I most wanted to meet...ever. Frank Herbert pops up like an underweight piece of toast in a toaster on steroids.
:)
My favorite lessons from Herbert?
Consequences.
My favorite quote from Frank Herbert:
"Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it."
How incredible and how apt...is that?
If you don't understand it, get a dictionary.
Read it again. Out loud. Then examine yourself.

Also try reading:
(By the way, if you're under 30 and hate reading...I'm sorry about that. You may wish to give it a try. Critical thinking depends upon more than the small realities we wake and walk through daily, and the future depends on critical thinking...on you.)
"Nature's End", by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka
"A Force Upon The Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics of Hate" by Kenneth Stern
"The Closing of the American Mind" by Allen Bloom
"An Illiberal Education" and "The End of Racism", both by Dinesh D' Souza
"Excellence: Can We Be Excellent and Equal Too?" by John W. Gardner

I'll check back on this later today to see how many think I'm nuts...it won't be a couple, I'm sure.

JUST CURIOUS!

Rocktron
03-31-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@31 March 2003 - 12:02
This has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read.

1.  I havent seen God, but I believe in him.
2.  I havent been in outter space, but everything shows it there.
3.  When that damn tree falls in the woods, and no ones there, and I go back to see it, and its fallen, id have to say it fell.

Just because you dont see something with your own eyes, doesnt mean its a fallacy.

You were born right?  Out of your mothers womb?  How do you know?  You didnt see it, recollection wise, or remember it... maybe you were randomly generated.

idiotic....
Just want to say to Schmiggy.. hehehhehehe hhehehe LOVE YOU MAN!
Cool reply! :D

ezyryder
03-31-2003, 08:56 PM
longterm, i've glanced at what you wrote and it seems good. Some really well thought-out questions and you seemed to have analysed the going-ons of the world well. Right now, i don't have the time to read it fully so hopefuly soon and I will give my view on what I can. Evidently you are very well read by that list.

ThE_MP3_G0d
03-31-2003, 10:30 PM
longterm I think u are my separated twin!! I had been thumbing thru one of the books in your post...it's Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt and you can visit the site for that publication here. (http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/)
And yes....it's scary!! :o


there....I said it....WELCOME BACK BRO!!! :lol:

fallenknight308
03-31-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by longterm@31 March 2003 - 11:12
My first posting here. (not a reply to another posting) I just have a few opinions, and would love feedback on them. I'm willing to answer any and all queries, so someone out there prove me wrong without making me dead. (Insert a grin here, please.) I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm biased. I want to live to enjoy MY life, and I want you to live and enjoy YOURS. It's that...damned...simple. With that in mind:
On with the show!
TOP TEN QUESTIONS I'D LIKE TO SEE PRESIDENT BUSH ANSWER LIVE:
(I will include here and there book titles and authors which illuminate or pose similar issues.)
10. If you "are" committed to the New World Order, will the rest of the world be brought "up" to the U.S. standard of living, or will the U.S. continue to edge toward being a 3rd world country, with ACTUAL ever growing inadequate:
Food, shelter, education, health care?
Try reading:
"Constitution: Fact or Fiction--The Story of the Nation's Descent from a Constitutional Republic through a Constitutional Dictatorship to an Unconstitutional Dictatorship", by Dr. Eugene Schroder-with Micki Nellis
9. Can you prove, without strongarm tactics, that Osama bin Laden was not acting in the interests of the "ruling class" of the U.S., seeing as how the CIA did "happen" to give him, (and consequently his men), in the name of fighting for freedom,
training and $? (Which would, of course, trace the perpetrators of 9/11 attacks to a location distinctly different than that of Afghanistan...or Iraq.)
Try reading both, 1984, and Animal Farm, both by George Orwell.
8. Was Osama bin Laden "so" steeped in American psychology as to understand the ramifications of using...that...one...date, to attack? 9-11?
Emergency, anyone? Just call 911! Oh, that also "happens" to be the day when our country's ENTIRE paradigm shifted so that a new, long-term program was neatly installed to implant mistrust and hate.
How easily done! Communism gone? No need for wiretapping? No need for mail tampering? No need for incorrectly preparing our students for life? No need for CIA? Not on this watch! Ever!
Hmm. Try reading:
"Who Will Tell The People: The Betrayal of American Democracy" by William Greider.
7. Are there any differences between the slaves of the 1700s and 1800s and the average American citizen today? ("Yes, plenty! Look at all the new cars, computer games, movies, airplanes, trains, telephones, medicines, operations, information, etc.")
Okay, I'll rephrase:
Slaves had, in general, inadequate housing, poor educational opportunities, little mobility, little privacy,
minimal food requirements, many losses of offspring, due to selling by owner, minimal recourses to injury or health, since replacing them was, oft times, considered cheaper.
Today, U.S. citizens "enjoy": Inadequate housing, some of which was brought about by meetings between bankers of other countries, (It was decided, outside the U.S., that low-income housing was to be classified as a "high-risk" proposition, thus ensuring that few, if any, American banks would underwrite such projects in the future.)
Incomplete and faulty education, which ensures a high number of "servers" to serve those born into "higher" (more wealthy) families, and also ensures fewer questions when told to put their necks on the line.
("Don't think. Just do it." Aahhh. Thank you Nike. What a cogent summation of America, (read as especially anyone under 40.)
Overdrugging of children, especially if, God forbid, they ask alot of questions, and don't seem able to concentrate for as long as, say, a 30 year-old. (My, your 8-year old acts "just" like a child! "I know. I'm so ashamed!" Hmm.
This brings us...FINALLY...to the question!
(remember the top 10 questions for the Prez?)
(rephrased #7):What, specifically, are YOU doing, to ensure that U.S. is not turned into another 3rd world country, since economists know that war footing is disastrous for freedom, and real prosperity.
Try reading:
"Power and Prosperity: Outgrowing Communist and Capitalist Dictatorships" by Mancur Olson
6. If it is true that only about 100 years of oil are theorized to remain on the planet, (and I understand it's merely a theory, and an estimate), what steps are being taken by the Oil Companies to ensure that they will remain viable entities beyond 100 years? In other words, are they branching out into technological areas which will keep them at the top of the power food chain, so that when the oil runs dry, they will still have humanity "over a barrel", so to speak?
Does it involve eliminating cash as a viable spending unit, and does it tie into the creation of the Euro-dollar?
5. Since nothing lasts forever, and the U.S. government is not exactly "God Itself", and the government knows this, what steps have the past administrations taken to ensure that future administrations would be well nigh invulnerable to an "actual" democracy, and what are your "think tanks" coming up with to discredit anyone with a brain and an interest in life and love?
(Remember, extremes cancel each other out. It's been pointed out that in Iraq, Saddam was "voted" in with 100% of the vote. 100%. We know that's a sham. Now, look at us, in the U.S.
By way of showing.... just.... how....democratic.... we.... are..... OUR country sits and waits, while OUR leader is voted in by a margin of a FEW THOUSAND. WOW! IT MUST BE A FREE COUNTRY! By the way, please ignore the fact that the discrepancy which gave our leader the chair....just....so ....happened....to be in the 1 out of 50
states of which his brother was Governer. Well! Don't that beat all! What an AMAZING coincidence.
(Go freedom! Wo-hoo!))
4. Where does your look of smugness come from, when "your" people are being killed? You don't really seem to ponder anything, and when you do, you chuckle. You either listen with a "cat that got the canary, and a contract that delivers all future canaries to your mouth" grin, or talk with a smack the podium "We've GOT to do it, it's just so damned reviling what the man does! Wooo it makes me shiver with rage!" style. And if it's true, what about what YOU said , and I'm quoting here, Mr. President,
"I hate lies and deception." And then you repeated it!
Does this mean that: You're ready to tell the American people about the truth behind the "War on this...and the War on that?" The truth about how:
Under the War Powers, given the American President, in a declared State of Emergency, which we've been in since 1933, YOU, Mr. Bush, are delegated THESE powers, withOUT reference to normal constitutional process:
seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of ways, control the lives of all American citizens.
Let's hear the truth, baby! You "hate" lies and deception. Apologize to the people, and return control of their government to them, and stop having controlled crisis, which allow you to solidify your power and condemn all those who love freedom.
Try reading the Declaration of Independence. Mayhap the Constitution? How about: "Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, " reported by James Madison, with an introduction by Adrienne Koch.
3. Are you aware of how many of Clinton's bodyguards, (and others around him) died while he was in office, and do you think it's strange, or do you just go by the, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs." (Actually, a more accurate phrasing might read: If you want to keep the money where it is, you have to kill some poor bastards.), credo of power?
2. Do you TRULY....and this is a doozy....'cause it could be your soul we're talking about here (but you do have to sorta believe in God for it to carry any meaning)....do you TRULY think you're a man of God, regardless of what faith you check in the box? (Protestant, Catholic, etc) If so, which God? Where in YOUR bible does it say,
"Yes, you may lie and oppress your people when you have the chance, because they would do the same to you, and screw the future and all those who might vary in opinion, 'cause quite frankly, Mr. Bush...you are the Man!" My bible doesn't say that.
Get the world good and mad at the U.S., so that if we're thrown out of the U.N. or if we decide to leave on our own, why, that's just a great reason to throw up a psychological wall around America and get us good and ready to die for just about any reason, would you just say please, Mr. President, I'll send my kids over to die, because it MUST be those people, we can't understand their language, so they MUST be wrong, why they don't even speak English, how COULD they be right, or not even RIGHT...why should they even live, when American people could use that land and oil really well for themselves, and please, will someone impregnate me so that I may send my child to die for lies? Please? Don't send your kids, Mr. President, or ANY kids from the "ruling class". (After all: "What good is it being a Congressman or Senator if I can't skate outside the lines? I make the laws, I should be able to break them! Why send my kid? They might grow up to be somebody! Get some kid from a public school! What do you think they're there for? To make decisions that'll affect where I park? Not on your life!")
I am sure that many are dying, both Iraqis and Americans. I'm sure both sides have been inflamed to a good pitch, and I'm sure that both sides will commit atrocities, when defined as "brutal". War is brutal. What I question is not the character of the Americans in Iraq fighting as they've been trained. It is the ACTUAL reason we're there that poses the dilemma. We kill people here, all the time, and innocent ones too, and the method does not change the outcome. Dead is dead. I happen to love this country, very much. But I love it in a way that is considered, and being rendered, obsolete. I think we are "supposed" to be free to speak our minds, and do as we wanted, barring that what we wanted was to harm another person, in some way, be it to their person, their family or their livelihood.
Also freedom to teach and raise our kids how we saw fit. Failure to do so in a competent way is its own consequence. We do not have this freedom.
My last question I'd love to see Mr. Bush answer live is this:
1. What steps are being taken to make sure that "coalition forces" will not take back another type of disease, such as Gulf War Syndrome, which may infect people other than spouses, since there's been OVER a decade to REFINE and DESIGN NEW chemical and biological weaponry, and which MAY have a MUCH longer incubate time, to allow for what we THINK are "safe returns", and how do we know whether or not the areas which our troops are going over right now have NOT been heavily sprayed with passive contaminants so that every step they take gets them closer to a second contaminant that will turn the passive one active? How do we know whether the 2nd agent is to be applied in Iraq...or in our country?
You seem well able to document every sneeze which results in another accidental death.
Has anyone in your think tanks thought of these things, or are you counting on them?

Try reading:
"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", by Charlotte Iserbyte (I may have the last name wrong by a couple letters, but it's darned close!)
Also try:
"The Handmaid's Tale" by Margeret Atwood
"Dune" by Frank Herbert (Written in 1965, to get the original story. His son, Brian, carries on the story remarkably well, but the underlying vision, and the underlying wisdom (Actually, the whole series, and for those less inclined to read all 6 books completely, if you go through and read all the little introductions to each chapter, you get a pretty nice summary of wisdom hard to find in this world.) One of my favorite authors for sheer scope and audacity of vision. A remarkable man, and easily my choice if I were asked who I most wanted to meet...ever. Frank Herbert pops up like an underweight piece of toast in a toaster on steroids.
:)
My favorite lessons from Herbert?
Consequences.
My favorite quote from Frank Herbert:
"Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it."
How incredible and how apt...is that?
If you don't understand it, get a dictionary.
Read it again. Out loud. Then examine yourself.

Also try reading:
(By the way, if you're under 30 and hate reading...I'm sorry about that. You may wish to give it a try. Critical thinking depends upon more than the small realities we wake and walk through daily, and the future depends on critical thinking...on you.)
"Nature's End", by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka
"A Force Upon The Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics of Hate" by Kenneth Stern
"The Closing of the American Mind" by Allen Bloom
"An Illiberal Education" and "The End of Racism", both by Dinesh D' Souza
"Excellence: Can We Be Excellent and Equal Too?" by John W. Gardner

I'll check back on this later today to see how many think I'm nuts...it won't be a couple, I'm sure.

JUST CURIOUS!
What can I say?, The man said it all!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ph34r:

Book source:FREE CATALOG of politically incorrect books & music to anyone in the USA. . Bohica Concepts, Dept. "J", PO Box 546 Randle, WA 98377

Address:http://www.totse.com/
Address:http://natall.com/
:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

ne1GotZardoz
03-31-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by kAb@31 March 2003 - 12:36
hey morons, he was kidding.



***********************
This message brought to you by:

CONSPIRACY CENTRAL

We're the ones to trust.
Honest!
***********************
:lol: :D* :rolleyes: ;)

Kab, you're spoiling it. :)

I was enjoying the arguments against me.

I especially liked the digression into memories of 1984 that occured. :)

Be quiet and see what happens next.

hehe

ezyryder
04-01-2003, 12:01 AM
no one is against you. I think the fact you had the audacity to say the war was fake is what upset many? Families back home are clutching onto photos of thier children, fathers and husbands whilst looking at the photo so hard as to not forget thier face, knowing that they will never hear thier voice again. The brave men out there are dicing with death daily because for nothing? This isn't fake to them no thier families. When its game-over its game over, there are no more credits in this arcade!

but no, no one is against you are angry with you, just shocked.

ne1GotZardoz
04-01-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by ezyryder@31 March 2003 - 19:01
no one is against you. I think the fact you had the audacity to say the war was fake is what upset many? Families back home are clutching onto photos of thier children, fathers and husbands whilst looking at the photo so hard as to not forget thier face, knowing that they will never hear thier voice again. The brave men out there are dicing with death daily because for nothing? This isn't fake to them no thier families. When its game-over its game over, there are no more credits in this arcade!

but no, no one is against you are angry with you, just shocked.
In all seriousness though, Do you know what I find shocking?

That we invaded another country and were surprised that people in that country would defend it.

I find it shocking that our government accuses them of geneva convention violations when we, who out-number and out-gun them 12 to one, invade their country and they, have no chance to win on our terms, choose to fight on their terms.

I find it shocking because I know that if we were the country being invaded, most of the free citizens of this country would not be looking at the clothing store for a uniform.
We would be hiding behind trees waiting for the enemy to pass so we could ambush them from behind.

I 100% guarentee you that most Americans wouldn't give a damn about the Geneva convention if we were attacked.

I find it shocking that we wage war against another country then when they use the only effective weapon they have, (gurrilla tactics), we have the balls to say, "no fair. You have to fight us our way or not at all".
I never thought it was a good idea to go into this war.
The cost is going to be much greater than it has been so far.
This generation that has forgotten war or never lived through one thinks technology can win it.
Deplomacy wins wars.
Fighting loses lives.
But since it has begun, lets hurry and get it over with or it will snowball and we will lose every inch of ground we had gained with the Arab community since the 70s.
(There were not many inches but they were very valuable to democracy).

No tears for the dead and dying.

Great respect for their commitment to king and country.

On all sides.

We are not alone in this war.

Peace

ClubDiggler
04-01-2003, 04:19 AM
We never landed on the moon either....

lol :D

Z
04-01-2003, 04:25 AM
u soo craaaazay! :D :lol: :P

leecheskicked
04-01-2003, 09:58 PM
Why bother replying? The question shows that the author suffers from a major psysciatric ailment, he thinks he is the centre and sole inhabitant of the universe. STOP HUMOURING HIM, It will only encourage his delusion

longterm
04-02-2003, 01:06 AM
This is to MP3 GOd. Thanks for the kudos. I just wanted to briefly say that when I use the phrase "critical thinking", I'm not referring to the educational term, but the faculty that allows people to think for themselves and apply common sense to their lives and learning. That's all.
Anyway, have a nice day/night...whatever the heck it is when you read this.
(I did check out the site about "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", and I've been trying to order the book through a bookstore, but each time I order it from a different bookstore I return to find that it's "Unavailable for some reason." That's an actual quote from a bookstore employee at Border's Bookstore. She said that it was not out of print, but she couldn't order one. She then found a used one for $130.00 I said that a new copy wasn't that much. She then said there seemed to be 2 versions, and when I looked at her screen there were 2 books with the same title, 2 years apart, with different authors. I remain commited to getting a copy, since it will tie together a list of books which make quite a compelling case for a picture rather unsavory to contemplate, but necessary to humanity.)