British Soldiers

[Rat Faced]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,926135,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,926135,00.html)


Reproduced Below


Three British soldiers sent home after protesting at civilian deaths

Richard Norton-Taylor
Monday March 31, 2003
The Guardian

Three British soldiers in Iraq have been ordered home after objecting to the conduct of the war. It is understood they have been sent home for protesting that the war is killing innocent civilians.
The three soldiers - including a private and a technician - are from 16 Air Assault Brigade which is deployed in southern Iraq. Its task has been to protect oilfields.

The brigade includes the Ist and 3rd battalions of the Parachute Regiment, the 1st battalion of the Royal Irish Regiment, a Royal Horse Artillery regiment, and a reconnaissance squadron of the Household Cavalry.

The three soldiers, based in Colchester, Essex, face court martial and are seeking legal advice, defence sources said yesterday.

The Ministry of Defence said it was not prepared to comment on individual cases. It said it had "no evidence" to suggest the soldiers had been sent home for refusing to fight.

Soldiers could be returned home for a number of reasons, including compassionate and medical, as well as disciplinary grounds, defence sources said.

But it is understood that the three soldiers have been sent home for complaining about the way the war is being fought and the growing danger to civilians.

The fact that they are seeking legal advice makes it clear they have been sent home for refusing to obey orders rather than because of any medical or related problems such as shell shock.

MoD lawyers were understood last night to be anxiously trying to discover the circumstances surrounding the order to send the soldiers home.

Any refusal of soldiers to obey orders is highly embarrassing to the government, with ministers becoming increasingly worried about the way the war is developing.

It is also causing concern to British military chiefs who are worried about growing evidence of civilians being killed in fighting involving American soldiers around urban areas in southern Iraq.



Reproduced for Discussion....Not in Judgement........

[leecheskicked]

sorry marra, but u sign on u obey orders, the military is not and cannot be a democrary, come on 10,000 soldiers vote on wether or not to attack! u sign up u obey orders, I personnally would shoot them, as they should be, as an object lesson if nothing else, they swore an oath, of that means nothing neither does their life

[alan36uk]

Originally posted by leecheskicked@2 April 2003 - 00:12
sorry marra, but u sign on u obey orders, the military is not and cannot be a democrary, come on 10,000 soldiers vote on wether or not to attack! u sign up u obey orders, I personnally would shoot them, as they should be, as an object lesson if nothing else, they swore an oath, of that means nothing neither does their life
Thats a bit harsh ???
Have you ever signed something and decided you made the wrong move ?
Is it right to shoot them ?
Damn I am glad I never served with you !!

[leecheskicked]

u give an order and your men vote on it?

[mcrosby]

Sure, you obay orders, but I'm sure most of us are suspecting that something is going very wrong in iraq at the moment...

1. Friendly Fire
2. Propergander - on both sides, including the US and UK.

I'm sure we will never know what it is actually like out there - you sign up to the army to protect your country - not to kill the innocent.

Obviously some innocent people are going to get killed, but there is a resonable amount of doubt at the moment in my eyes that the war is going exactly to plan.

[alan36uk]

Originally posted by leecheskicked@2 April 2003 - 00:27
u give an order and your men vote on it?
At the end of the day these men/women are human.
I would not have the courage to goto war but thats a different issue.
The Army (once you sign up) OWN you...
Thats so not right.Good luck to the ones coming home.
They are obviously in the wrong job.

[leecheskicked]

yes for a lot, they probably made the wrong career choice, but nobody forced them

and i agree this conflict is seriouosly fucked up, I loved that quote about wargames, my 11 year old would have fought this war the same way as saddam, comes under the heading of bleeding obvious the guys survived for decades, did they really think he would do a john wayne stand up fight? he's not stupid

[MagicNakor]

A lot of the marines over there right now signed up on reserve so they could have a shot at going to college, and continuing their education. The few that I know personally wouldn't have had that opportunity otherwise. So, perhaps you could argue that the high price of post-secondary education forced them to join, if they didn't want to be flipping burgers for their whole lives.

:ninja:

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by leecheskicked@1 April 2003 - 23:12
sorry marra, but u sign on u obey orders, the military is not and cannot be a democrary, come on 10,000 soldiers vote on wether or not to attack!  u sign up u obey orders, I personnally would shoot them, as they should be, as an object lesson if nothing else, they swore an oath, of that means nothing neither does their life
WRONG

Ever here of Nuremburg?

"Following Orders" is not a defence.


You are not required to follow orders that you consider to be illegal under either National or International Law.


Of course, its up to you to prove the orders were illegal when you are then Court Marshalled....and I dont think these soldiers will be charged somehow.....

In the same way that all the Territorials that told Blaire to fuck off when they were called up are not being charged. (over 30%)

Despite the UK Governments insistance that they are acting legally, they are going to unheard of lengths NOT to go to court for this.....

[chr1sp]

The only way there wouldnt be propoganda in this war, is if the UK and US and any other country were being directly attacked themselves. In which case, the world would be united in fighting no matter what.

Since we arnt being attacked, those in a better position than say someone in Iraq, can speak out about what they see, but considering what we see is what is put in front of us, we chose to believe it, right or wrong.

This war is different because they are fighting to stop fighting. Kind of ironic, and i dont think it will work either. You cant kill every person who is against what you believe in, half the world's population would be wiped off the map.

But then, we put these people in charge, we have to put up with the concequences.

[ne1GotZardoz]

Ok...Let me get this straight...The british men responsible for securing oil rigs are being ordered to kill civilians?

I doubt that.

Its pretty obvious that the Iraqi Army is killing more of its own civilians than we have killed total, (military and non).

And what would civilians be doing at an oil rig that would get them shot at anyway?

Riiiiiight!

Sounds more like the 3 out of thousands, soldiers are looking for some justification and they know this is a controversial war so they choose a contraversial reason to be lazy bums.

Hey...They got sent home didn't they?

Geesh...How much brains does it take to figure this one out? <_<

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@9 April 2003 - 11:09
Ok...Let me get this straight...The british men responsible for securing oil rigs are being ordered to kill civilians?

I doubt that.

Its pretty obvious that the Iraqi Army is killing more of its own civilians than we have killed total, (military and non).

And what would civilians be doing at an oil rig that would get them shot at anyway?

Riiiiiight&#33;

Sounds more like the 3 out of thousands, soldiers are looking for some justification and they know this is a controversial war so they choose a contraversial reason to be lazy bums.

Hey...They got sent home didn&#39;t they?

Geesh...How much brains does it take to figure this one out? <_<
You obviously dont know what British Troops are/were actually doing.

There is more than one City in Iraq, and guess what? The US forces werent the only coalition forces fighting.

I think your obviously destined to be another Hollywood Director.

[chloe_cc2002]

have to defer to Ratfaced the voice of reason......particularly with respect to the issue of &#39;following orders&#39;. People should also read what the purpose and mission is of different countries&#39; forces before they make stupid uninformed statements. Sorry to sound offensive.

http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/image6.gif