AGP cards.

[Snee]

I am looking for something cool, and which doesn't draw too much power.


I thought I had narrowed it down to one card (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=300031&cks=PRL).

It's got enough performance to last me for a bit, and at the same time it doesn't need a molex on the card (I think).

And it has plenty of RAM as well as VIVO, which is something I feel could be useful later on.

However, recently cards like this (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=307118&cks=PRL) have started popping up, and I'm not quite as sure on which I should go for.

Is the Radeon 9600XT 256Mb w. VIVO worth the money? Or should I go for the 6200 128Mb Geforce with its pixel shader 3.0?

As you can tell, low heat emissions and a small power drain is more important than performance here, but I'd still like something I can play reasonably recent games with.

So 9600XT vs. 6200, what's good and what's bad with both cards?

(I've got a fairly good idea about what they can do, but additional input won't hurt.)

[Formula1]

I'd highly recommend a nvidia 6600GT which is only 213$ (about 125 pounds ? ). Anyway , it out performs the 9800 pro and xt i think . Plus its cheaper, but that's just me ;) ...

[Snee]

Too big a power drain, is the impression I have of that chip.

It seems pretty good tho'.

[twister]

why not use the money you save buying that card and buy a 500 watt powersupply too?

[Snee]

'cos it won't fit in this http://www.komplett.no/mlf/produkt/bilder/CDS/I247074.jpg

I built this one for portability, it's light and small, but the space is limited.

I'm gonna' fit three hds in there too maybe, so I'll need more juice for those.



At any rate less power means less heat, and that's good in that case.

EDit: I know the PSU in it can handle 6800s and x800s, but my airflow won't be all that great with that many hds, so something hi-spec is out of the question, sadly.

[Virtualbody1234]

If power is a main concern then the ATi doesn't have an extra power connector but the Nvidia does.

http://www.msi.com.tw/images/product_img/vga_img/8988_NX6200-TD128.jpg

Here are links to the sites:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/vga/vga/pro_vga_detail.php?UID=655

http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9600-xt.asp


And a large picture of the Sapphire:
Caution! Large file. http://www.sapphiretech.com/awards/image/media_289.jpg


Edit: I also think the ATi would produce less heat.

[Snee]

Thanks VB.

That makes me more inclined to go for the ati. Thank you very much. :)
There's certainly no point in going for the 6200 then.

Another card I was looking at before I decided on one of those two, was this (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=305562&cks=PRL), but the heat coupled with the bigger power drain made me very hesitant.

But if the 6200 requires the extra molex too that means that the drain isn't that much smaller, I think. :unsure:

I've also been told that early gainward 6600s shipped with badly mounted heatsinks. Which is a potential hassle.

The ati costs nearly as much and the 6600s seem so very good, so sometimes it feels like a shame to settle for the 9600, I think I have been thinking about for too long. :lol:

But, uhm, that helped me to nearly decide in favour of the Ati. :unsure:

[twister]

x800 is alot smaller then 6800s i hear

[Snee]

Yup, but they both generate a lot of heat :(

I've got something like a 100+ cfms pumping through that case right now, and the temps aren't that low, and that's with a very cool gfx card, a cpu voltage of 1.475, and only one hd, I'd hate to see what'd happen with another hd AND one of those cards. :unsure:

EDit: I tell a lie, it's two hds already, d'oh.

[Virtualbody1234]

Thanks VB.

That makes me more inclined to go for the ati. Thank you very much. :)
There's certainly no point in going for the 6200 then.

Another card I was looking at before I decided on one of those two, was this (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=305562&cks=PRL), but the heat coupled with the bigger power drain made me very hesitant.

But if the 6200 requires the extra molex too that means that the drain isn't that much smaller, I think. :unsure:

I've also been told that early gainward 6600s shipped with badly mounted heatsinks. Which is a potential hassle.

The ati costs nearly as much and the 6600s seem so very good, so sometimes it feels like a shame to settle for the 9600, I think I have been thinking about for too long. :lol:

But, uhm, that helped me to nearly decide in favour of the Ati. :unsure:
If you also compare the heatsinks you'll see that the ATi doesn't require as extensive cooling. Much smaller heatsink.

[Snee]

Yup, it looks good, and I can swap it for one of these later on http://www.datorbutiken.com/se/pics/big/acvga-ati2.jpg.

(hope the pic turns up ok.)

I wonder about the back of the card tho'.

If it looks like this http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/7677/back-Sapphire-Radeon-9600XT.jpg, I can keep my akasa blower in the slot next to it, if I can get enough clearance between the two.

That's good if so.

[silent h3ro]

Get a new case?

[Snee]

I have more cases (even gave one away 'cos I had no room for it, the other day), but I want a 'puter that's this small.

It's secksy :wub:

[silent h3ro]

I have more cases (even gave one away 'cos I had no room for it, the other day), but I want a 'puter that's this small.

It's secksy :wub: I guess it looks good but u can get bigger cases that are secksy too. :rolleyes: Arent there medium size cases?

[Snee]

But do they fit in my backpack? :no:

[silent h3ro]

But do they fit in my backpack? :no: If u get the right backpack they will. :01:

[Snee]

Ah, cunning.



Change of topic:

What backpack should I get?


Actually, it's a very good machine, the sound is excellent, and it's brilliant how portable it is, I mean, you can carry any case around, but this goes so much smoother.

[Peerzy]

I know were all teh 'puter geeks here but this thread has got me thinking, we all attempt to keep our temps down as much as possible and SnnY here is even going out of his way to get a part that produces less heat, but what if we were teh n00bies and added the 3hhd and the card that gives best proformance no matter what the heating. Would it make that much difference? Would it really damage parts that much?

Before i came here i knew very little about the insides of computers really, i use to buy pc's that were built with one cpu fan nd that was it and he parts still continuedto run.

Basically what im saying is what proof is there that says that small heat increases over our highly cooled machines will do any harm? I know if its to hot it can decrease the life span of parts but apart from you knowiing that your temps arn't as good as they could be whats a few degree's higher gonna do.

Just a question iv always wanted to ask really. S;sorry for teh thread highjackage SnnY.

Ontopic the ATi card offers better preformance right now in games but lacks Pixal Shader 3.0. The Nvidia card has the Pixal Shader 3.0. Basically some game (Like Splinter Cell 2, Prince Of Perisa and a few others use Pixal Shader 2.0 this ment no matter how great my computer was if i was running my old Geforce 4 MX (Without the needed pixal shaders) theres no way i could ever play it. So in theory the Nvidia is more geared up for future games and will become the better card over time.

[Snee]

Thanks peerz.

It's a bitch having to calculate how long I want this 'puter to last, game-wise. :no:

I guess I don't actually don't know what'd happen if this 'puter got hot (up to a certain point, that is, 'cos once it's hot enough to burn I have a good idea).

If the ambient heat is too high for the gfx card I guess it'll shut down a lot, causing loads of spontaneous reboots, the same thing is true with the processor, otherwise I think the most vulnerable components would be the hds, or possible the RAM, at least on a standard sized computer.

In this case tho', I'd worry about the northbridge heating up, presumably it can lead to the same kind of shutdowns you get when the gfx card is overheating, or even data corruption while it's in transfer.

[Peerzy]

Thanks peerz.

I guess I don't actually don't know what'd happen if this 'puter got hot (up to a certain point, that is, 'cos once it's hot enough to burn I have a good idea).

If the ambient heat is too high for the gfx card I guess it'll shut down a lot, causing loads of spontaneous reboots, the same thing is true with the processor, otherwise I think the most vulnerable components would be the hds, or possible the RAM, at least on a standard sized computer.

In this case tho', I'd worry about the northbridge heating up, presumably it can lead to the same kind of shutdowns you get when the gfx card is overheating, or even data corruption.


Yes but these shutdowns only start when the CPU hits 70 degree's and temps like that when witht he hardware you have in there you could expect to peak at 55 maybe. I spose its a risk some are not willing to take. If something were to go wrong you would kill me :P Most poeple's tempts idle at about 40 or so right and peak at 50 (well mine do and i don't really cool mine alot) so if it was only an increase of 5 degree's im wondering would it have any major effects.

[Livy]

or you could sell up and get a laptop? alot more portable. :)

[Snee]

I've got one of those around here somewhere too.
An old one tho'.
I don't know, for some reason I've really fallen for the SFF format, it's just so perfect somehow.

@Peerzy: I think the difference in temps between the 6800GT and the 9600XT is a lil bigger than 5 degrees. :unsure:

[Peerzy]

@Peerzy: I think the difference in temps between the 6800GT and the 9600XT is a lil bigger than 5 degrees. :unsure:


I spose theres no way of telling so would be best to play it safe.

[Snee]

That's what I was planning to do :D

[Peerzy]

That's what I was planning to do :D


Good planning then :01:

[Snee]

An Update:

I've done some checking, and some calculations, and it seems as if my system should be able to cope with a 6600GT and three hds at the same time.

Which still leaves the heat issue. :(

So, the 9600xt is still the leading contender, but the 6600GT is now in play again (this one looks so very tempting) (http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=306283&cks=PRL) , assuming I can think of a way to keep the heat down.

I'm going to wait until the start of march before I order something, anyway, 'cos I'm waiting for additional components that won't be in stock until then, which gives me a little more time to think.

Regardless of what I choose, tho', I'd like to thank those of you who posted to help me in this thread, it WAS useful no matter what the final choice will be.

[Peerzy]

I would say keep away from the 9600, you like to play a game every now and again right? Cos TheDave was asking about graphics cards in here saying he thinks teh 9600 is to shyte for games and he wanted a new one. The ATI looks like a nice card and so does the Nvidia. You could get an ATI 9800 Pro but the price is the same as a 6600GT so there would be no reason to. ALthough the 9800 Pro offers great gaming capabilities and doesnt create much heat iv heard.

[silent h3ro]

I would say keep away from the 9600, you like to play a game every now and again right? Cos TheDave was asking about graphics cards in here saying he thinks teh 9600 is to shyte for games and he wanted a new one. The ATI looks like a nice card and so does the Nvidia. You could get an ATI 9800 Pro but the price is the same as a 6600GT so there would be no reason to. ALthough the 9800 Pro offers great gaming capabilities and doesnt create much heat iv heard. The 6600 GT beats even the 9800 xt I think for the same price as the 9800 Pro but I'm not sure how much heat it generates.

[Snee]

Thanks, I'll take that into account too.

Was Dave running a regular 9600 w. the standard 128Mb RAM, or a 9600XT with 256 megs tho'?

From what I hear, the difference in performance is pretty marked.


EDit: This sucks, I pretty much know how they look, and the drawbacks with both, but they are just to even for me to see a clear advantage with either one. :(


I guess I might just flip a coin when the time comes to order.

[Peerzy]

Thanks, I'll take that into account too.

Was Dave running a regular 9600 w. the standard 128Mb RAM, or a 9600XT with 256 megs tho'?

From what I hear, the difference in performance is pretty marked.


EDit: This sucks, I pretty much know how they look, and the drawbacks with both, but they are just to even for me to see a clear advantage with either one. :(


I guess I might just flip a coin when the time comes to order.

I think Dave had a 9600Pro with 128mb ram. 256mb ram is not needed with many games (Doom 3 being the only one where you will see an advantage really) and because of more ram card makers use slower memory to keep costs down so 256mb is not always the best way to go unless your card is state of the art (PCI-Express cards for example).

Ofcourse not all companies use slower ram but quite a few do so in some cases 256mb can show slower proformance unless the game needs all the ram (Doom 3 can and will use upto 512mb of Video ram to gain the best proformance but thats the only game i know of so far, MOHPA might use slightly over 128mb and Half Life 2 uses about 128mb at max)

[Snee]

Yup, it is slower on the sapphire I've been looking at, the reason I still wanted 256Mb is that I thought it might make it a bit more future-proof as I assume more and more games will need as much dedicated ram as DOOM 3 does.

So I've been checking out D3 benchmarks, for that reason.

And the fact that it's slower might help to keep the temps down too, maybe. :unsure:

Decisions decisions.

[Peerzy]

To be honest if you want to future-proof your card go for the 6600, in comparision the 9600 i gonna be rather shyte. The 6600 is part of a new generation of cards. It has all the features that will be needed by games within the next 3-5 years. The 9600 is starting to become very out of data right now so after a year or 2 your gonna find yourself looking and new graphics cards. Also the price difference isnt that much.

Also why teh 3hdd's? Can you not get 2 larger hdd's? By the way while were on the subject how do i add a third hdd my IDE cable only has two connectors :unsure:

[Snee]

Don't you have two IDE connectors on the mobo? I guess if you are all out, you'll have to go for a controller card.

The three hds go with the ViVo really, so I can record all I want.
Not to mention that I can collect a lot of movies and music with like 3x300GB :D if I can get hold of the money. I wanna' leave my options open for three hds anyway, just in case.

I'm trying to balance my demands for a cool card with reasonable longevity, dunno' quite what i want the most, as I can't be sure where I'll be in a year or so from now.

Maybe I'll be building something with pci-e, which means that I won't be using that card in my new setup anyway.

[Peerzy]

Ahhh yesh if you only have 1 cd/dvd drive you can have 3 hard drives.

Try to build something so that when you want to movie to PCI-E you can use all the same parts (Ram, CPU, CD/DVD, HDD, PSU, Soundcard) and just have to change the mobo and graphics card. This means you can have the best system right now and make a quick cost effective upgrade in the next year or so to PCI-E.

[Snee]

I'm thinking that I'll be going with another shuttle then, so that means that all the extras I'll be buying for that one are ram, sata hds, processor and gfx card. That's the idea anyway.